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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Erzegovaz on Sun, 04 September 2016, 16:12:34
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Hi guys, when I saw this new speciual, ipercool, supermega Razer keyboard I had goosebumps....
Waaaaat
Someone can explain me, what is that? :D
SupercheapTopreFake switch, without cherry stem for change caps, with 0,0000000002 g pressure
Orrible super low cheap caps with a weird cover ==> I saw a review with a lot of finger-mark
Finally maybe a standard bottom row (idk for the CTLR) :cool:
Lot of space between the key ====> superiper light on my eyes :'(
Magnetic wrist rest :blank:
Have fun :thumb:
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I want one :[
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I think it's just one of those "memchanical" dome with sliders.
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I think it's just one of those "memchanical" dome with sliders.
Totally agree, but damn you razer, why does is have to sound so cool!
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I think it's just one of those "memchanical" dome with sliders.
memchanical but its also clicky. when does it actuate though? from the images it looks like it could actuate without bottoming out. I dont expect much though.
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Some ignorant ****biscuit wrote about it:
http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/9/3/12777952/razer-ornata-chroma-keyboard-hands-on
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Some ignorant ****biscuit wrote about it:
http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/9/3/12777952/razer-ornata-chroma-keyboard-hands-on
somebody, pls a neuralyzer
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I did like the video, I was looking for a video, the review seemed ok. too, a bit clickbaity, but ok. - I think the insult is a bit uncalled for
I think the spacebar sounded a bit flimsy
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I did like the video, I was looking for a video, the review seemed ok. too, a bit clickbaity, but ok. - I think the insult is a bit uncalled for
The guy either knows nothing, or he's bought, or both. It's a rubber dome keyboard passed off as a proper mechanical board just because it makes noise, has backlighting and a Razer logo on it. There's people who act on this sort of stuff, you know :/ .
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I agree with "both", or "a bit of both"
However, he still tested the keyboard, and has made some useful observations, like the keyboard clicking twice at each keypress etc.
I've never used or inspected an Alps switch, but, it seemed similar to the quiet-click versions of Matias switches to me, rather than Cherry MX's
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So, Razer performed the keyboard equivalent of putting a glass pack on a Pinto.
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I did like the video, I was looking for a video, the review seemed ok. too, a bit clickbaity, but ok. - I think the insult is a bit uncalled for
The guy either knows nothing, or he's bought, or both. It's a rubber dome keyboard passed off as a proper mechanical board just because it makes noise, has backlighting and a Razer logo on it. There's people who act on this sort of stuff, you know :/ .
I'd have to agree, that's a terrible review.
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The Verge is cancer.
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It's a rubber dome keyboard passed off as a proper mechanical board just because it makes noise, has backlighting and a Razer logo on it.
Exactly what I thought.
Going back to rubberdomes and sell it like it's something special ...
On the other hand, you cannot blame them, Topre does it with great success.
A conical spring or a click mechanism doesn't make the rubberdome above it less of a rubberdome :rolleyes:
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Guys, the guy who wrote the review isn't a mechhead. He probably doesn't even know what Topre is. You can't really grade his review on our curve! :)
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It's a rubber dome keyboard passed off as a proper mechanical board just because it makes noise, has backlighting and a Razer logo on it.
Exactly what I thought.
Going back to rubberdomes and sell it like it's something special ...
On the other hand, you cannot blame them, Topre does it with great success.
A conical spring or a click mechanism doesn't make the rubberdome above it less of a rubberdome :rolleyes:
In all fairness, Topre doesn't market their keyboards as mechanical and clicky, but as capacitive and quiet. I know the term "mechanical" is a technicality, but the distinction is quite important in this case.
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A rubber dome that clicks, great, but its not mechanical so..
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Some ignorant ****biscuit wrote about it:
http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/9/3/12777952/razer-ornata-chroma-keyboard-hands-on
Sihtbiscuit might be my favorite describing word now.
The switch is half mechanical though, because the sound is mechanical but the way the activation works isn't. I think. :confused:
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That's a little like saying a bike with a card stuck between the spokes is a "semi motorbike".
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why is this 100$? If I really tried I could see some form of benefit there if it was less than half that.
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They innovate, I support them for what it's worth
It might turn out to be a very ****ty design, it might become the next Topre, whatever the case, at least they tried something new - they shouldn't be blindly bombarded (mainly the OP's stance)
Also the keyboard doesn't have a Razer logo as far as I see, if they made a TKL version, I might buy one out of curiosity
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That's a little like saying a bike with a card stuck between the spokes is a "semi motorbike".
Under rated post tbh fam
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Main issue IMO, if that metal leaf is indeed an alps style tactile leaf, is that the the switch will click way before actuating. Its still a rubber dome, so actuation only on bottom.
Also, if thats the case, its probably going to have two distinct tactile bumps: the clicky leaf one and when the dome "turns". I wonder if it will be possible to feel them.
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Guys, the guy who wrote the review isn't a mechhead. He probably doesn't even know what Topre is. You can't really grade his review on our curve! :)
The Verge is a big, published technology news medium, and the guy sets himself up as someone who knows about mechanical keyboards. It's not some random dude just telling his neighbour he found a cool toy, it's a serious article published in a serious source. Considering the source, the person who wrote this should have been someone that's more knowledgeable on the subject than any of us. However, it's obvious the guy doesn't actually have a clue what he's talking about, and he raises superlatives that can be dismissed out of hand. That means it's either clueless babble, heavily skewed and biased reviewing, or fraud.
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Guys, the guy who wrote the review isn't a mechhead. He probably doesn't even know what Topre is. You can't really grade his review on our curve! :)
The Verge is a big, published technology news medium, and the guy sets himself up as someone who knows about mechanical keyboards. It's not some random dude just telling his neighbour he found a cool toy, it's a serious article published in a serious source. Considering the source, the person who wrote this should have been someone that's more knowledgeable on the subject than any of us. However, it's obvious the guy doesn't actually have a clue what he's talking about, and he raises superlatives that can be dismissed out of hand. That means it's either clueless babble, heavily skewed and biased reviewing, or fraud.
Or you really overvalue how many people care about your hobby. The Verge doesn't cater to you.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
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Or you really overvalue how many people care about your hobby. The Verge doesn't cater to you.
While true that doesn't mean it shouldn't research a topic before making a review, or not make an article based only manly on personal opinion.
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Or you really overvalue how many people care about your hobby. The Verge doesn't cater to you.
While true that doesn't mean it shouldn't research a topic before making a review, or not make an article based only manly on personal opinion.
So reviews should be based on objective data with perfect knowledge of all subjects contained within...? Grow up!
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I think I understand chyros a bit, he might've seen the dark sides and injustice of these establishments, maybe that is the source of his unrest
I had limited interaction with "tech blogs"/"news outlets" or whatever the term is, and indeed they are not what they should be or seem to be
You might approach them with a genuine keyboard design / product, they might not even answer to your email, but somehow, for this specific razer product, we see an article that borders on an "ad"
So it's not that I don't agree, but maybe don't use insults, and instead be more logical, so maybe, if someone googles "The Verge" at one point, they might use your facts, instead of dismissing them
Anyway, I personally have a deep hatred of what "media" has become, hype machines ...
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Or you really overvalue how many people care about your hobby. The Verge doesn't cater to you.
While true that doesn't mean it shouldn't research a topic before making a review, or not make an article based only manly on personal opinion.
So reviews should be based on objective data with perfect knowledge of all subjects contained within...? Grow up!
They should at least try to do that yes.
If not what's the point of reading a review? If I wanted marketing speak I can just read the product's box.
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Then don't read The Verge for keyboard reviews! I certainly don't. I read the threads on this forum instead.
The Verge is a very special kind of opinionated blog, not really an in depth source on any of the things they cover. Let them be them, and don't try to shoehorn them into what you would like them to be.
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So reviews should be based on objective data with perfect knowledge of all subjects contained within...? Grow up!
I read The Verge daily, and I'm also on the side of disagreeing with you here. When you're a news publication that's saying something has never been done before, AND people are going to follow where you point them to with their money, there's a little bit of responsibility to make sure you're well-informed on the topic.
Literally every mention of this article off The Verge's own site has people complaining about its quality/lack of clarity/information. Maybe this is one of the rare cases where the criticism is constructive and can lead literally everyone in this conversation forward.
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Then don't read The Verge for keyboard reviews! I certainly don't. I read the threads on this forum instead.
The Verge is a very special kind of opinionated blog, not really an in depth source on any of the things they cover. Let them be them, and don't try to shoehorn them into what you would like them to be.
Saying that they made a bad review isn't shoehorning anyone.
Your point was that they don't need to be good because their audience wouldn't appreciate it. My point was that they should be good because anyone can appreciate quality.
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A rubber dome that clicks, great, but its not mechanical so..
I think I found the prototype /s
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There are pictures of its disassembly on Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/razer-mecha-membrane-switch-ornata-chroma,32637.html).
The switch is a bog-standard rubber dome/membrane keyboard with an additional leaf spring in each key to make a clicky noise.
However... there is also a large number of contacts from the membranes to the PCB and what looks like banks of surface-mounted ICs that could contain diodes. I do therefore think that this keyboard could have N-key rollover in the matrix. Razer claims 10-key rollover but until someone plugs it in and debugs the USB output, we have no way of knowing what it really is.
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Thanks for sharing the disassembly, I fancy the stabiliser design, seems simple, costar/alps-like
Don't know why but this keyboard really peaked my interest
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Then don't read The Verge for keyboard reviews! I certainly don't. I read the threads on this forum instead.
The Verge is a very special kind of opinionated blog, not really an in depth source on any of the things they cover. Let them be them, and don't try to shoehorn them into what you would like them to be.
What's the point of making a review if you don't even know anything about it though? Especially in a professional context? Of course, anyone can give they opinion, but this article isn't stating an opinion, it's a statement, which happens to be blatantly untrue. A 10-minute investigation into the subject would've been enough to avoid these mistakes.
Here, there's a pair of Post-its on my desk, let me review them.
REVOLUTIONARY NEW DESIGN OF POST-ITS come with a new feature; these Post-its are YELLOW. They're so yellow it's making my colleagues crazy, they now all hate me. This hybrid between the whiteness of paper and the yellowness of lemons is the best of both worlds, and they don't even cost $1000 per batch, just $1! Also comes with fantastic new feature; a slightly sticky backside that allows you to stick them on other surfaces (SEE GIF BELOW). Also comes with a logo printed on the back slip and you can write multiple letters on it, but I don't care. I just like yellow.
In every way that matters, the above review is the same as that Verge review.
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There are pictures of its disassembly on Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/razer-mecha-membrane-switch-ornata-chroma,32637.html).
The switch is a bog-standard rubber dome/membrane keyboard with an additional leaf spring in each key to make a clicky noise.
Yeah I do get the same impression too, it's pretty much a rubber dome with leaf that makes noise (but does nothing in terms of actuation, unlike Topre).
And it's an all plastic construction unlike the usual steel plate under the key switches, so this could potentially feel flimsier.
But the price point seems to cater towards the rubber dome crowd anyway, so for people who doesn't want to spend too much this might be a viable choice.
I'd still want to try it though. :P
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Then don't read The Verge for keyboard reviews! I certainly don't. I read the threads on this forum instead.
The Verge is a very special kind of opinionated blog, not really an in depth source on any of the things they cover. Let them be them, and don't try to shoehorn them into what you would like them to be.
What's the point of making a review if you don't even know anything about it though? Especially in a professional context? Of course, anyone can give they opinion, but this article isn't stating an opinion, it's a statement, which happens to be blatantly untrue. A 10-minute investigation into the subject would've been enough to avoid these mistakes.
Here, there's a pair of Post-its on my desk, let me review them.
REVOLUTIONARY NEW DESIGN OF POST-ITS come with a new feature; these Post-its are YELLOW. They're so yellow it's making my colleagues crazy, they now all hate me. This hybrid between the whiteness of paper and the yellowness of lemons is the best of both worlds, and they don't even cost $1000 per batch, just $1! Also comes with fantastic new feature; a slightly sticky backside that allows you to stick them on other surfaces (SEE GIF BELOW). Also comes with a logo printed on the back slip and you can write multiple letters on it, but I don't care. I just like yellow.
In every way that matters, the above review is the same as that Verge review.
Pageviews.
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REVOLUTIONARY NEW DESIGN OF POST-ITS come with a new feature; these Post-its are YELLOW. They're so yellow it's making my colleagues crazy, they now all hate me. This hybrid between the whiteness of paper and the yellowness of lemons is the best of both worlds, and they don't even cost $1000 per batch, just $1! Also comes with fantastic new feature; a slightly sticky backside that allows you to stick them on other surfaces (SEE GIF BELOW). Also comes with a logo printed on the back slip and you can write multiple letters on it, but I don't care. I just like yellow.
You should start a GB for those post-its, I want some :)
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You know the innovation here, right? How to make a keyboard that will appeal to gamers and don't spend money on switches (because even Kailh aren't really that cheap, especially when you rebrand them as your own, which in fact Razer does).
Easy: make a rubber dome with a clicking slider and backlighting. Cost of production basically the same as any other memchanical keyboards, marginally higher than typical Logitech K120, but the final price almost the same as a proper mechanical keyboard. I see a guy who invented this getting a nice bonus for Christmas this year.
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You forgot to mention that traditional post-its are impractical (and don't tell exactly why)
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You forgot to mention that traditional post-its are impractical (and don't tell exactly why)
LOL xD
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Don't worry, guy! There gonna be arrow keys for us to try on the box :)
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Normally Membrane keyboards was made because they are silencious in comparison to the mechanical keyboards. I don't why this one is interesting because it's just a membrane keyboard with clicky sound :D
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This is kind of pointless, why even invest in the development of this,
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This is kind of pointless, why even invest in the development of this,
Because people will buy it... could just buy a real mech for $100, OR Could just spend the extra $100 and get Ergodox ;)
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Even if they slashed the price in half you can still get a true mechanical keyboard for less than that price, like that Lingbao.
I was about to say I was proud of Razer for the Blackwidow Tournament X but now they have to come and break my heart again.
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I think that this keyboard will fool a lot of people into believing that they are buying a mechanical keyboard.
"Ohh, it clicks. It must be mechanical".
I am sure that this is Razer's intention, even if they are not saying it out loud.
If I had been tasked to design it, I would have instead made the click-function a pair of speakers. Then it would have clicked only on actual actuation, not on the up-stroke. There could be different click sounds.
It would have been possible to turn it off, or to have the driver deliver it only in headphones - in stereo.
Maybe a driver function to turn it off depending on the time of day, or to adjust the volume depending on ambient volume.
What a lost opportunity to do something useful.
Instead, it is all about marketing **** to gamerz....
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I think that this keyboard will fool a lot of people into believing that they are buying a mechanical keyboard.
"Ohh, it clicks. It must be mechanical".
I am sure that this is Razer's intention, even if they are not saying it out loud.
If I had been tasked to design it, I would have instead made the click-function a pair of speakers. Then it would have clicked only on actual actuation, not on the up-stroke. There could be different click sounds.
It would have been possible to turn it off, or to have the driver deliver it only in headphones - in stereo.
Maybe a driver function to turn it off depending on the time of day, or to adjust the volume depending on ambient volume.
What a lost opportunity to do something useful.
Instead, it is all about marketing **** to gamerz....
I really don't like that idea, you would need #switch amount of speakers for it to be realistic, or maybe a custom surround system that achieves the same with less speakers, that would be something
Apple's 3D Vibration engine also seems similar, but better, might go well with an actual keyboard
You can also go ahead and implement that driver, since it doesn't need to be dependant on the keyboard, it might turn out pretty interesting - but ultimately sounds junky to me
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Well, does anyone here consider Razer a good manufacturer of mechanical keyboards...? No? Yeah, I thought not...
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So much prejudice
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Damn straight! I am NOT giving those pesky plastic keyboards equal rights! You can call me Strom Thurmond!
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Oh and whilst we're at it, **** topre. Fkin rubber domes.
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Well, does anyone here consider Razer a good manufacturer of mechanical keyboards...? No? Yeah, I thought not...
absolutely not
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I had the chance to type on one during Gamescom.
The feel isn't really bad, just don't expect something Topre-ish. It's more like a shorter-throw MX Blue/Razer Green with a rubber dome on the bottom.
So, in my humble opinion, it's not a bad keyboard per se, but the price doesn't seem right...
The switch is a bog-standard rubber dome/membrane keyboard with an additional leaf spring in each key to make a clicky noise.
Yes.
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Oh and whilst we're at it, **** topre. Fkin rubber domes.
Now look... Topre may be rubber domes, but they're OUR rubber domes! As long as they don't marry one of our mechs, they can live next to us. Separate but equal!
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If the leaf is specifically for noise/tactility, and doesn't actually close the switch, then this thing is worthless. All the problems of rubber dome boards, none of the benefits of a mechanical switch.
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I had the chance to type on one during Gamescom.
The feel isn't really bad, just don't expect something Topre-ish. It's more like a shorter-throw MX Blue/Razer Green with a rubber dome on the bottom.
Thanks for posting!
But please tell us more! Did you feel any Cherry-like tactile response from the leaf spring?
Did you notice any binding on off-centre key presses?
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There definitely is an audible and tactile response from the leaf.
The keys didn't seem to get easily stuck or blocked. Then again, the caps weren't fully final.
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lol I finally get to try this from my local computer store, and yes you can definitely feel the tactile leaf.
To be honest...... this feels quite good ! Though if I remember correctly for the price you can get a real mechanical so the cost to performance ratio is not very good.
But if this was any cheaper then I think it would be a solid alternative for someone who want something halfway in between.
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Funnily enough, tried it today and I hated it. The sound:tactility ratio is completely off. And the key travel is much, much shorter than it ought to be on a mechanical-keyboard wannabe. :(
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It actually doesn't feel too bad but yeah this keyboard is pretty terrible value. You're much better off going on ebay and getting a used Quickfire Rapid or Dell AT-101w or something.
They do sound very nice though, a much better sound than MX Blues which are one of the worst sounding switches in the world.
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I actually like the sound of MX Blues. And normally I really like the sound of Browns, but not on this CM Masterkeys S. These things sound like complete **** :(
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I actually like the sound of MX Blues. And normally I really like the sound of Browns, but not on this CM Masterkeys S. These things sound like complete **** :(
They wouldn't bother me so much if it wasnt for the jacket rattling around.
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So much prejudice
Sometimes what has erupted from between Razer's legs should be terminated with extreme prejudice and then thoroughly incinerated so as to never allow it to roam around free to molest children in anyway.
Sometimes UGLY needs to not only be beaten down with a pipe wrench but thrown into an industrial shredder as quickly as possible. Far better to put it out of it's misery than allow it to draw breath and target another innocent to drain their last income and their dreams. Leaving only a damaged person that will forever inflict harm on everyone around them. They then become another Razer sicko completely devoid of conscience and morality.
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It's all a bit depressing really.
This is sold out on Amazon with 404 reviews, so obviously people are buying it.
I just have no idea why.
Well actually, I can't say that. People don't do their research. Or they get bought it as presents. Or they have done their research and genuinely don't care.
It's when research consists of reading that article... that's when I take exception. it misleads people.
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It's all a bit depressing really.
This is sold out on Amazon with 404 reviews, so obviously people are buying it.
I just have no idea why.
Well actually, I can't say that. People don't do their research. Or they get bought it as presents. Or they have done their research and genuinely don't care.
It's when research consists of reading that article... that's when I take exception. it misleads people.
I want to say that it's because people just want a replacement for their busted up boards they've been using but it's not even much cheaper than the blackwidow already is which is bizzare to me. I didn't realize this thing started at $100.
This (https://www.amazon.com/review/R1RU3410AF228O/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01LVTI3TO&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=541966&store=pc) reviewer said they liked it because it has low travel, but most of the reviews honestly seem more concerned with the backlighting. I think at the end of the day people just don't want to research that kind of thing, otherwise I've got no good explanation. This (https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3UQOSX3SSVEWB/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01LVTI3TO) guy said they'd never use another keyboard again :p
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Gets a good review by Cnet. https://www.cnet.com/products/razer-ornata-chroma/preview/ (https://www.cnet.com/products/razer-ornata-chroma/preview/)
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I'm neutral against the keyboard
Yet, the coverage it gets is obviously disturbing, dark side of media I guess, make an actually interesting product and I don't think any of these outlets would even reply to your email's
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I'm neutral against the keyboard
Yet, the coverage it gets is obviously disturbing, dark side of media I guess, make an actually interesting product and I don't think any of these outlets would even reply to your email's
They most likely have a longer standing relationship with razer than most companies, after all they've been making all this green stuff for a lot longer than most. It's probably like a conveyor belt of review copies at this point.
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I'd love to do a review on one of these. Should be quite interesting.
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Some ignorant ****biscuit wrote about it:
http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/9/3/12777952/razer-ornata-chroma-keyboard-hands-on
Sihtbiscuit might be my favorite describing word now.
The switch is half mechanical though, because the sound is mechanical but the way the activation works isn't. I think. :confused:
Is ****biscuit that game reviewer with cancer?
are you allowed to make fun of him if he has cancer?
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Some ignorant ****biscuit wrote about it:
http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/9/3/12777952/razer-ornata-chroma-keyboard-hands-on
Sihtbiscuit might be my favorite describing word now.
The switch is half mechanical though, because the sound is mechanical but the way the activation works isn't. I think. :confused:
Is ****biscuit that game reviewer with cancer?
are you allowed to make fun of him if he has cancer?
Having cancer has absolutely nothing to do with being a keyboard reviewer, I absolutely fail to see the relevance.
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Never ridicule a person. You can ridicule what a person does if what he does is worthy of ridicule.
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It's all a bit depressing really.
This is sold out on Amazon with 404 reviews, so obviously people are buying it.
I just have no idea why.
Well actually, I can't say that. People don't do their research. Or they get bought it as presents. Or they have done their research and genuinely don't care.
It's when research consists of reading that article... that's when I take exception. it misleads people.
Mine will arrive tomorrow. I just got tired of mechanical switches in general, tried blues, reds, blacks and browns. None of them 'feel right' to me.
I got HHKB Type-S recently, and i absolutely love it, but using it for gaming can be a struggle so i decided to order ornata specifically for gaming. I really hope i will like it, but if i don't i honestly don't care about it. Maybe at least the wrist rest is usable :)
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If the leaf is specifically for noise/tactility, and doesn't actually close the switch, then this thing is worthless.
The leaf in Alps SKCM, Omron B3G-S, SMK second generation, AEK II Mitsumi switches (which are different to other examples), and various other switches is only for noise/tactility and doesn't close the switch. The actuator leaf present in most of these designs is a separate part: there is one leaf to drive the switch contacts, and a second leaf for noise/tactility. SMK is an exception, where there is only a leaf for noise/tactility — the movable contact itself protrudes out to reach the slider.
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You can ridicule what a person does if what he does is worthy of ridicule.
Nice epitaph, worth chiselling into Granite 8) .