Author Topic: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?  (Read 15138 times)

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Offline Bucake

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 01:24:42 »
i love 60%, but i am getting a new TKL as a backup.
i just miss the F-row too much, sometimes :) (games)
i ditched my TKL because i didn't see myself using it again, but it can be quite frustrating if you need to press F-keys frequently.

i know i'll always prefer 60%, but i just need a backup that has an F-row :)
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Offline jonathanyu

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 01:40:37 »
I used a poker II for a week.  It just horrible to me.  The smallest I can use is TKL, can't even imagine how you guys use your 40%...  40% look cute though

Offline Altis

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 01:52:17 »
People are more and more used to compact keyboards due to laptops being their main computers. You'd think that by now 75%/TKL would be the standard, while full-size would be the less chosen option. I guess when choosing one-size-fits-all, you go with the one that checks the most functional boxes.
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Offline Nai_Calus

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 02:08:00 »
I have a 60%. It only sees use as a gaming controller. (Although that's also due to the Gateron Clears it has, I can't type on something that light and that linear without getting hopelessly lost and hitting half the keys on the board accidentally.)

I've bought two keyboards since getting it; a full-size WASD Code, and an IBM Model F 107. I just can't function without all the keys ever.
- IBM 4704 Model F 107-key "Bertha"
Other boards: Kinesis Essential, Infinity(G.Clears), Ergodox(MX Blues), Monoprice 9433

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Offline derezzed

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 02:13:07 »
My boards are getting progressively smaller.  My next board is going to be a 60% and I don't foresee going back to a larger board for that particular environment.  I'll probably keep using my TKL at home, though I don't need dedicate arrow keys, nav buttons, function row, or a number pad.  The reduction in hand travel is just too beneficial to sacrifice for extra keys.  I have a stand-alone number pad for the rare occasion I need it but it's on the far side of my desk.  That brings my mouse 4-5 inches closer to my alpha keys.  I am not adverse to getting a bigger board in the future, but if I go big, I'm going ridiculously big -- at least 140 keys -- and that likely wouldn't be my daily driver.

Offline derezzed

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #55 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 02:13:32 »
Is there no way for me to delete a double post?

Offline DanielT

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #56 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 06:36:28 »
I use 60% , HHKB at work where I do all the typing , NerD60 (2 of them) and SPRiT 60%. All the boards have the same Fn layer mapping HHKB style. I love 60% , compact, don't take a lot of space, portable.
I have also a SSK and I use it when I feel lazy or tired, moment when I don't feel like I want to remember the Fn layer mapping ( moments where the muscle memory it taking a break).
I want a second TKL exactly for such moments, I think the Orion will be a good choice.
I don't game at all so I don't care about F1-xx row and numpad or whatever gamers are looking for. I type and code and 60% is perfect :) I use Linux and UNIX where navigation can be done in so many other ways unlike Windows.
What I do really need is a programmable board, except for HHKB and IBM stuff I would never again buy a board that is not programmable in a true way ( not that Poker II Pn thing)
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Offline Bucake

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #57 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 06:46:48 »
I use 60% , HHKB at work where I do all the typing , NerD60 (2 of them) and SPRiT 60%. All the boards have the same Fn layer mapping HHKB style. I love 60% , compact, don't take a lot of space, portable.
I have also a SSK and I use it when I feel lazy or tired, moment when I don't feel like I want to remember the Fn layer mapping ( moments where the muscle memory it taking a break).
I want a second TKL exactly for such moments, I think the Orion will be a good choice.
I don't game at all so I don't care about F1-xx row and numpad or whatever gamers are looking for. I type and code and 60% is perfect :) I use Linux and UNIX where navigation can be done in so many other ways unlike Windows.
What I do really need is a programmable board, except for HHKB and IBM stuff I would never again buy a board that is not programmable in a true way ( not that Poker II Pn thing)

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Offline ideus

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #58 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 09:30:26 »
I use 60% , HHKB at work where I do all the typing , NerD60 (2 of them) and SPRiT 60%. All the boards have the same Fn layer mapping HHKB style. I love 60% , compact, don't take a lot of space, portable.
I have also a SSK and I use it when I feel lazy or tired, moment when I don't feel like I want to remember the Fn layer mapping ( moments where the muscle memory it taking a break).
I want a second TKL exactly for such moments, I think the Orion will be a good choice.
I don't game at all so I don't care about F1-xx row and numpad or whatever gamers are looking for. I type and code and 60% is perfect :) I use Linux and UNIX where navigation can be done in so many other ways unlike Windows.
What I do really need is a programmable board, except for HHKB and IBM stuff I would never again buy a board that is not programmable in a true way ( not that Poker II Pn thing)


So you really need a programmable board? Nerd60 is programmable; so, what do you mean?

Offline Polymer

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #59 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 10:14:15 »
If you find a FN layer that works well for you, definitely 60% all the time is possible...

I generally find I can use that for a vast majority of the time without any issues..

But for example, I rarely use the F keys, I rarely use the up/dwn/home/etc...so missing those or having them on the FN layer is not a big deal.

Arrow keys, that takes some getting used to but isn't a big deal at all IMO...and if you can get them in IJKL it might even be quicker than dedicated arrow keys...

That said, I don't consider the added space you get from TKL to 60% that big of a deal..Going from Full to TKL was a big jump and completely better for using a mouse...going to 60% gained some space but it really wasn't a big deal at all...So what I gain from 60% is minimal aside from just liking it..

I can see why someone that places their keyboard on top of their laptop might like it or if you need one to travel with, it is definitely more convenient..but for general home use..*shrug*..

Offline TopreFan333

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #60 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 10:34:29 »
People are more and more used to compact keyboards due to laptops being their main computers.

True. Apple even ships a bluetooth 60% keyboard (albeit one with tiny F keys and arrow keys) as a standard desktop accessory.

Offline phoenix1234

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #61 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 10:37:18 »
I love the idea of 60% but I cannot get used to 60% even I tried several times.
For me, 87 TKL, Cherry 1800 and 104 layout are still my mainstream favourite.
I can type on 60% but I cannot make it for daily typing.
I like linear switches

Offline njbair

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #62 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 10:50:25 »
People are more and more used to compact keyboards due to laptops being their main computers.

True. Apple even ships a bluetooth 60% keyboard (albeit one with tiny F keys and arrow keys) as a standard desktop accessory.

But they offer a full-size wired option at no additional cost, which is the only reason they can get away with that.

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Offline dante

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #63 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 10:53:45 »
Since I play games at home, a TKL is a must for me. I tried gaming on a HHKB, but I need the function layer.

I can game somewhat on the HHKB.  What I do is when I need to use functions I move the mouse close enough to the keyboard so that I can put my thumb on the function key and type the number normally.


Offline Fire Brand

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #64 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 10:55:42 »
Yes I do I more rotate between my poker and QFR mainly due to what In doing or just for change but yes all the time
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Offline DanielT

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #65 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 13:07:03 »
So you really need a programmable board? Nerd60 is programmable; so, what do you mean?
:) I know, that's why I have 2 NerD60 and a 3rd one is on the way :D What I mean is that what it's important for me in a board is to be programmable. I could never go back to a stock one like Poker.
The HHKB and SSK I don't want to mod or change controllers. The HHKB is perfect for me, all the other boards are programmed to be like HHKB. The SSK was NIB not a rivett broken it's a beauty.

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Offline Nai_Calus

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #66 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 15:56:55 »
But they offer a full-size wired option at no additional cost, which is the only reason they can get away with that.

And when I was working at a call center doing customer service and occasionally sales on Apple products, most iMacs I sold they went with the wired full-size. We used the wired full-size ourselves because we needed to do data entry, including credit card numbers, and it was much more efficient, also your keyboard didn't die during a call. :P

A lot of the complaint calls I got were people who couldn't get their wireless keyboard to pair, and a few who complained about the lack of keys. Quite a few complaints were heard that the wireless was wanted but they wanted it full-sized. They usually went to the full-size wired. Sometimes they'd buy a separate third-party keyboard to get what they really wanted. (So like us but not mechs. :P)
- IBM 4704 Model F 107-key "Bertha"
Other boards: Kinesis Essential, Infinity(G.Clears), Ergodox(MX Blues), Monoprice 9433

Eternally searching for Celestial Blue BS V2 and blue/purple Bros.

Offline njbair

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #67 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 16:02:26 »
But they offer a full-size wired option at no additional cost, which is the only reason they can get away with that.

And when I was working at a call center doing customer service and occasionally sales on Apple products, most iMacs I sold they went with the wired full-size. We used the wired full-size ourselves because we needed to do data entry, including credit card numbers, and it was much more efficient, also your keyboard didn't die during a call. :P

A lot of the complaint calls I got were people who couldn't get their wireless keyboard to pair, and a few who complained about the lack of keys. Quite a few complaints were heard that the wireless was wanted but they wanted it full-sized. They usually went to the full-size wired. Sometimes they'd buy a separate third-party keyboard to get what they really wanted. (So like us but not mechs. :P)

I don't get the whole wireless keyboard thing. Is it really that big a deal to have a wire coming out of the back? I have personally spent way more of my life inconvenienced by dead/dying keyboard batteries than I have spent inconvenienced by a wire.

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Offline ctm

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #68 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 16:05:44 »
I love 60% and I find it hard to use TKL after about a month on 60%. The Fn layer is just so convenient with which in most cases I don't need to move my hands across the keyboard. So what I do is I reprogrammed my TKL to have almost identical Fn layer as my 60%  ;D
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Offline madhias

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #69 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 16:10:01 »
Unfortunately I never used my 60% keyboard that much. So I never went back to 60% :) Dedicated keys like PAGE UP and DOWN or an arrow cluster or HOME and END keep me on TKL layout. At work I need a F-row, because of applications which use them keys heavily. But I really would like to build a 60% wireless board!
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Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #70 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 17:41:30 »
In terms of Topre keyboards, I've had a Realforce 87u and still have a Novatouch, but find myself only using the HHKB. They layout, although it takes some time to get used to, is something I find myself wanting on every keyboard now. The sound of the HHKB is definitely distinct from any other keyboard, and another reason to use it as much as possible. If you've never used a Topre keyboard before, don't judge it right away. Very few people that I know have fallen in love with it at first touch, like many do with MX switches. It has a very subtle perfection to it, and the switches are hard to really describe and probably won't be what you've expected just from reading about them (many seem to expect them to feel like Clears). Again, it wasn't love at first sight, but I can easily say it's my favorite keyboard/switch type now.

That being said I have a V60 and a Poker ii, but find myself only using them on the go. The V60 has a much better Fn layer in my opinion, and it gets a bit more use since i don't really need the Pn layer of the Poker. I still mostly use my KUL keyboards at home (especially since the DIP switches allow me to get close to the HHKB layout ;).
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #71 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 19:10:11 »
I may have a problem...

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Offline Rotaku

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #72 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 19:18:27 »
I may have a problem...

Show Image

How many of those do you actually use  :eek:
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #73 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 19:28:12 »
I may have a problem...

Show Image

How many of those do you actually use  :eek:
I just built a few of them. But I plan to rotate them all to use.
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Offline ideus

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #74 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 19:29:45 »
I may have a problem...

Show Image

How many of those do you actually use  :o
I just built a few of them. But I plan to rotate them all to use.


Were any of the HHKBs actually built, some how?

Offline Nai_Calus

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #75 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 20:32:43 »
I don't get the whole wireless keyboard thing. Is it really that big a deal to have a wire coming out of the back? I have personally spent way more of my life inconvenienced by dead/dying keyboard batteries than I have spent inconvenienced by a wire.

I don't get it either, but I don't have a laptop or use my computer from the couch and what have you. I personally refuse to use wireless keyboards for exactly that reason. I use a desktop. My computer doesn't move. I don't move. So no reason for me to use a wireless keyboard or mouse.
- IBM 4704 Model F 107-key "Bertha"
Other boards: Kinesis Essential, Infinity(G.Clears), Ergodox(MX Blues), Monoprice 9433

Eternally searching for Celestial Blue BS V2 and blue/purple Bros.

Offline nmur

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #76 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 00:00:39 »
I tried the HHKB layout for a week at work (coding), and for the most part it was very comfortable. The new positions of the navigation keys were brilliant. However the one thing I didn't like with that was when I needed to ctrl and/or shift in combination with arrow keys. If I wanted to quickly select the last three word blocks I would need to hold ctrl + shift + fn, then press the left arrow key 3 times. Setting up that manoeuvre was taking a bit of conscious thought each time. I have no doubt that I would get used it in the long run though.

I think I would rather have dedicated arrow keys in the typical 75% position for just this reason. I know it requires you hand to move, but not very far.

Offline spiceBar

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #77 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 04:34:05 »
I tried the HHKB layout for a week at work (coding), and for the most part it was very comfortable. The new positions of the navigation keys were brilliant. However the one thing I didn't like with that was when I needed to ctrl and/or shift in combination with arrow keys. If I wanted to quickly select the last three word blocks I would need to hold ctrl + shift + fn, then press the left arrow key 3 times. Setting up that manoeuvre was taking a bit of conscious thought each time. I have no doubt that I would get used it in the long run though.

I think I would rather have dedicated arrow keys in the typical 75% position for just this reason. I know it requires you hand to move, but not very far.

I do these kind of chords all the time, which also explains why a 60% with no arrows is a burden for me.

It's like explaining to a pianist that you have built a great keyboard (musical keyboard) that is also very portable. And the price is incredible. There's just one thing: the black keys are missing. But hey, no problem: to play a black key, you just press the Fn key and the nearest white key.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #78 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 05:15:17 »
I tried the HHKB layout for a week at work (coding), and for the most part it was very comfortable. The new positions of the navigation keys were brilliant. However the one thing I didn't like with that was when I needed to ctrl and/or shift in combination with arrow keys. If I wanted to quickly select the last three word blocks I would need to hold ctrl + shift + fn, then press the left arrow key 3 times. Setting up that manoeuvre was taking a bit of conscious thought each time. I have no doubt that I would get used it in the long run though.

I think I would rather have dedicated arrow keys in the typical 75% position for just this reason. I know it requires you hand to move, but not very far.

I do these kind of chords all the time, which also explains why a 60% with no arrows is a burden for me.

It's like explaining to a pianist that you have built a great keyboard (musical keyboard) that is also very portable. And the price is incredible. There's just one thing: the black keys are missing. But hey, no problem: to play a black key, you just press the Fn key and the nearest white key.

Or like one of those small keyboards, where you need to flick a switch to select an octave (if that is the right word, Rowdy is not very musical).  You can play 4 octaves or something, but only one at a time.  Nevertheless people do still manage to play things on them.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline qwack

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #79 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 08:27:53 »
Or like one of those small keyboards, where you need to flick a switch to select an octave (if that is the right word, Rowdy is not very musical).  You can play 4 octaves or something, but only one at a time.  Nevertheless people do still manage to play things on them.

Exactly. Because people (musicians/producers) realized that there was no point in using a full 88-key weighted keyboard as a compositional tool if you're not a trained pianist — and even then, this kind of MIDI controller is much more practical when working in front of the computer than a full keybed (but nothing prevents you from having both in the room/studio). Just like there is no point in having a 104-key keyboard if you barely use the numpad for instance. Or dedicated arrow keys when you can do with key combinations (I know I would have a hard time adapting to them, but I understand why some prefer them).

(I think your analogy works better than the missing black keys btw)

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Offline njbair

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #80 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:10:07 »
Or like one of those small keyboards, where you need to flick a switch to select an octave (if that is the right word, Rowdy is not very musical).  You can play 4 octaves or something, but only one at a time.  Nevertheless people do still manage to play things on them.

Exactly. Because people (musicians/producers) realized that there was no point in using a full 88-key weighted keyboard as a compositional tool if you're not a trained pianist — and even then, this kind of MIDI controller is much more practical when working in front of the computer than a full keybed (but nothing prevents you from having both in the room/studio). Just like there is no point in having a 104-key keyboard if you barely use the numpad for instance. Or dedicated arrow keys when you can do with key combinations (I know I would have a hard time adapting to them, but I understand why some prefer them).

(I think your analogy works better than the missing black keys btw)
Yeah removing the black keys would be more akin to removing the vowels. You use blacks and whites at the same time, in tandem.

F-keys and numpad stuff are not really used in tandem with alphas. It's always like, "I'm going to cease writing words for a moment while I perform this separate kind of task." That task might be numerical data entry or some kind of data manipulation. Then when you're ready to write some more, your hands return to the home row.

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Offline dustinhxc

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #81 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:11:36 »
I used 60% for half a year and was HOOKED. Though, slowly I grew back into full size. Have used full size ever since getting my Realforce 87UBDK last year from Bro. Love this board.

Offline spiceBar

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #82 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 12:15:37 »
Or like one of those small keyboards, where you need to flick a switch to select an octave (if that is the right word, Rowdy is not very musical).  You can play 4 octaves or something, but only one at a time.  Nevertheless people do still manage to play things on them.

Exactly. Because people (musicians/producers) realized that there was no point in using a full 88-key weighted keyboard as a compositional tool if you're not a trained pianist — and even then, this kind of MIDI controller is much more practical when working in front of the computer than a full keybed (but nothing prevents you from having both in the room/studio). Just like there is no point in having a 104-key keyboard if you barely use the numpad for instance. Or dedicated arrow keys when you can do with key combinations (I know I would have a hard time adapting to them, but I understand why some prefer them).

(I think your analogy works better than the missing black keys btw)

The small MIDI keyboards are seldom used for real performances. They are mainly used for data entry, because ultimately when you use a virtual studio the song is not played by you but by the computer. You use the keyboard to try/enter chords, enter melodic phrases, create percussion loops... all things that do not require more than 2 octaves and a half, generally, even if your composition covers 7 octaves.

I would compare these small MIDI keyboard to the cheap rubber dome computer keyboards people use while browsing Facebook. Or to the glass keyboards on modern phones and tablets. Yes, you get the job done...

But here on Geekhack we generally want something more ergonomic, suited for heavy use.

At least that's what I'm looking for when I purchase a keyboard. For this reason, after one year and a half trying 60% keyboards, I have decided that I don't want a keyboard that does not have dedicated arrow keys. I use these keys some 22% of the time, less often than a pianist would use the black keys, but still it's a handicap not to have them. Think about it: in average, after typing 4 keys, I need one that is not directly accessible on a 60%...

The attraction of 60% boards is still so great that many people want them to be as efficient as bigger keyboards, and I have seen many creative justifications. I have offered some myself. My opinion now is that they are just a little bit too small. Important keys are missing (the arrows) and using these keyboards involves a compromise in usability. Yes, I'm stating the obvious, but it's true that, at first, one is tempted to dismiss this compromise as insignificant. It turns out that it's not.

Naturally it depends on what you are doing on your computer, so I recommend using a keyboard stats utility for several weeks before a purchase decision. If, like me, you use the navigation keys twice as often as the space bar, you may not be doing yourself a favor by purchasing a 60%.

Offline qwack

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #83 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 13:04:06 »
The small MIDI keyboards are seldom used for real performances. They are mainly used for data entry, because ultimately when you use a virtual studio the song is not played by you but by the computer. You use the keyboard to try/enter chords, enter melodic phrases, create percussion loops... all things that do not require more than 2 octaves and a half, generally, even if your composition covers 7 octaves.

I would compare these small MIDI keyboard to the cheap rubber dome computer keyboards people use while browsing Facebook. Or to the glass keyboards on modern phones and tablets. Yes, you get the job done...

No pianist use them live, but a lot of acts do (often along with other controllers). And some of them have quality keybeds, so I'm not sure the rubber-dome keyboard comparison stands (of course there are a lot of cheap & crappy controlers too, but not all of them are). In the end it comes down to what each user needs. And I'm not even sure what we are debating about since I'm in the same boat as you  ;D (I need the eggs arrow keys too)

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Offline spiceBar

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #84 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 14:28:33 »
The small MIDI keyboards are seldom used for real performances. They are mainly used for data entry, because ultimately when you use a virtual studio the song is not played by you but by the computer. You use the keyboard to try/enter chords, enter melodic phrases, create percussion loops... all things that do not require more than 2 octaves and a half, generally, even if your composition covers 7 octaves.

I would compare these small MIDI keyboard to the cheap rubber dome computer keyboards people use while browsing Facebook. Or to the glass keyboards on modern phones and tablets. Yes, you get the job done...

No pianist use them live, but a lot of acts do (often along with other controllers). And some of them have quality keybeds, so I'm not sure the rubber-dome keyboard comparison stands (of course there are a lot of cheap & crappy controlers too, but not all of them are). In the end it comes down to what each user needs. And I'm not even sure what we are debating about since I'm in the same boat as you  ;D (I need the eggs arrow keys too)

I'm not arguing, I just wanted to give a balanced perspective on the subject of 60% keyboards. This has consumed some of my time for the last year and a half, I thought I could share my experience.

The comparison with a musical keyboard without black keys is just a funny metaphor, I don't mean it seriously. A 60% is a little bit like a piano without the black keys, but not as annoying, fortunately.

Offline Den441

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #85 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 15:51:25 »
For me it is less about the layout and more about the aesthetics and switches of the boards themselves. I can love any layout....I do not discriminate....especially against full-sizes. The big girls need love too in this age of "smaller is better...." What I love about my P2 though is the arrow keys on the WASD Fn layer. Some people hate that for some reason, but I really love it. I miss it when I switch to a TKL.
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Offline spiceBar

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #86 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 21:12:25 »
For me it is less about the layout and more about the aesthetics and switches of the boards themselves. I can love any layout....I do not discriminate....especially against full-sizes. The big girls need love too in this age of "smaller is better...." What I love about my P2 though is the arrow keys on the WASD Fn layer. Some people hate that for some reason, but I really love it. I miss it when I switch to a TKL.

I practice heavy discrimination on bad hardware and bad ideas. :)

Offline Hyde

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #87 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 22:01:15 »
lol I went 60% and went back.  To be honest I probably spent close to $300 to mod my Poker II.

I got Tex aluminum case, white backlit keycaps, braided cable, modded LED light myself.  But now it's one of my least used keyboard (to be fair I did put about half a year usage on it).

In the end it's just too tedious to use.

I realize I actually use arrow key, 6 pack cluster, number pad, and number pad enter (I hit it with my mouse thumb) quite a lot for home and work.

Also I've developed muscle memory for full size keyboard so it's just a lot easier to type on standard layout (which rules out irregular layouts like HHKB).

So in the end I opt in for functionality over look.

:P

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Offline Nai_Calus

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #88 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 22:40:37 »
number pad enter (I hit it with my mouse thumb) quite a lot for home and work.

I do this too. Need to hit enter, thumb whips out and hits Numpad Enter.
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Offline nmur

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #89 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 02:14:35 »
I've been wanting to get myself an ortholinear keyboard for a while now (hanging out for the Planck/Atmoic PCBs), and I've been leaning heavily towards the Atomic for these reasons. It's got the dedicated arrows keys lodged right up next to the right shift and a column of navigation keys like a typical 75% layout, but it also has great potential to support a numpad on a function layer, because of how we are used to the the numpad having straight columns anyway.

I hope the ortholinearity is as great as I imagine it to be.

Offline Bucake

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #90 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 02:26:16 »
So in the end I opt in for functionality over look.

for alot of people, the smaller size is its functionality..
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Offline TopreFan333

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #91 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 10:03:46 »
And when I was working at a call center doing customer service and occasionally sales on Apple products, most iMacs I sold they went with the wired full-size. We used the wired full-size ourselves because we needed to do data entry, including credit card numbers, and it was much more efficient, also your keyboard didn't die during a call. :P

Oh yeah, the minute you need to do data entry, the idea of using a TKL/60% board goes out the window.

Offline azhdar

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #92 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 10:20:53 »
And when I was working at a call center doing customer service and occasionally sales on Apple products, most iMacs I sold they went with the wired full-size. We used the wired full-size ourselves because we needed to do data entry, including credit card numbers, and it was much more efficient, also your keyboard didn't die during a call. :P

Oh yeah, the minute you need to do data entry, the idea of using a TKL/60% board goes out the window.
60% + numpad is a layout I want to try for a while now, Numpad would make so much more sense on the left.
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Offline ianbullock

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #93 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 10:47:23 »
I've been wanting to get myself an ortholinear keyboard for a while now (hanging out for the Planck/Atmoic PCBs), and I've been leaning heavily towards the Atomic for these reasons. It's got the dedicated arrows keys lodged right up next to the right shift and a column of navigation keys like a typical 75% layout, but it also has great potential to support a numpad on a function layer, because of how we are used to the the numpad having straight columns anyway.

I hope the ortholinearity is as great as I imagine it to be.
I am currently using Filco Minila and a short space Atomic as my main keyboards. Do still like to have the dedicated arrows. I wish there were more PCBs/plates which allow tiny spacebars, though who knows, maybe the novelty will wear off eventually. For now, it seems great having quick access to Fn layer with my thumb, and thus being able to use the arrows and home/end without moving my hands from the touch typing position.

Ortholinearity was a lot easier to adjust to than I thought it would be - that being said for now there is still a bit of adjustment when I go back and forth between standard and ortholinear (mostly for the number row).

Offline sypl

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #94 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 11:34:38 »
And when I was working at a call center doing customer service and occasionally sales on Apple products, most iMacs I sold they went with the wired full-size. We used the wired full-size ourselves because we needed to do data entry, including credit card numbers, and it was much more efficient, also your keyboard didn't die during a call. :P

Oh yeah, the minute you need to do data entry, the idea of using a TKL/60% board goes out the window.

Not if you've got an actual numpad layer.

Offline inanis

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #95 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 11:45:24 »
And when I was working at a call center doing customer service and occasionally sales on Apple products, most iMacs I sold they went with the wired full-size. We used the wired full-size ourselves because we needed to do data entry, including credit card numbers, and it was much more efficient, also your keyboard didn't die during a call. :P

Oh yeah, the minute you need to do data entry, the idea of using a TKL/60% board goes out the window.

I don't know why people feel this way really. If you have a 60% and use a stand alone number pad, how would this slow you down? I think a lot of people who think it can't be done efficiently just haven't tried it. That is not saying it will work for everyone, but I don't think it is as hard to familiarize yourself with as people make it seem. You do have to be willing to try something new though.

I don't do "data entry" per say, but I do enter data which requires number pad, arrows and all and I still greatly prefer 60% to any other form factor.
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Offline TopreFan333

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #96 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 11:51:45 »
I don't know why people feel this way really. If you have a 60% and use a stand alone number pad, how would this slow you down?

Oh, I wasn't talking about using a standalone number pad. The comparison being made was between Apple stock keyboards (60% bluetooth vs. full-sized USB).

I'm sure using a separate number pad is great. I suspect maybe even better than a full-sized board because you can orient the keypad wherever you want on your desk, or set it aside when you're not using it.

Offline nmur

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 31 March 2015, 01:47:24 »
..I wish there were more PCBs/plates which allow tiny spacebars, though who knows, maybe the novelty will wear off eventually..

Ortholinearity was a lot easier to adjust to than I thought it would be - that being said for now there is still a bit of adjustment when I go back and forth between standard and ortholinear (mostly for the number row).

Yeah I am slightly worried about having the ortholinear board at work (where i do most of my typing) and a standard board at home, and having to constantly adjust between layouts twice a day. Hopefully I like it enough to buy a second one..

A 2u spacebar sound perfect for someone who tends to only use one of their thumbs for the spacebar. Perhaps 3-4u for someone who uses both thumbs, but 6-7u just downright greedy. You can see on old keyboards how the spacebar is typically very shiny around a single part, maybe an 3-4cm long.

Offline slaction

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #98 on: Tue, 31 March 2015, 02:05:08 »
While I love my 60% boards, I have to say that the 75% layout of the Race 2 and Noppoo Choc mini are just much more productive for me.

I could easily get by without the F keys, but having the arrows along with Home, End, Page up and down and Delete are keys that I use all the time and just couldn't be as productive without.

I also don't do too well without the right hand shift.

Offline dustinhxc

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Re: Once you go 60% do you ever go back?
« Reply #99 on: Tue, 31 March 2015, 04:49:05 »
lol I went 60% and went back.  To be honest I probably spent close to $300 to mod my Poker II.

I got Tex aluminum case, white backlit keycaps, braided cable, modded LED light myself.  But now it's one of my least used keyboard (to be fair I did put about half a year usage on it).

In the end it's just too tedious to use.

I realize I actually use arrow key, 6 pack cluster, number pad, and number pad enter (I hit it with my mouse thumb) quite a lot for home and work.

Also I've developed muscle memory for full size keyboard so it's just a lot easier to type on standard layout (which rules out irregular layouts like HHKB).

So in the end I opt in for functionality over look.

:P

Yeah same here, I may get a fc660 to save a little space but doubt ill go full 60% for my daily board. I have a gh60 and may get more 60% some day but not for my daily.