Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.

[Bucake]

someone in the thread said that some MOBA pros actually use the Flick mouse, but none of the CS pros apparently.
but i did see some talk about firmware updates, so maybe some issues have been resolved or at least lessened..
it's still a no for me, though i have no faith!

[GL1TCH3D]

Got the ducky secret and it's pretty neat. The mouse itself is fat.

You can adjust the polling rate, angle snapping and dpi on the mouse itself, there's no software for it.

However the annoying thing is that you can't change the keybindings for the side buttons.

However from just starting to use it, the mouse either doesn't track on my mousepad that well or has skipping because I notice that it doesn't register some movements sporadically.

Unless it's defective, I noticed that when drawing spirals the pointer slowly moves upwards.

I'm pretty certain that the mouse is not moving upwards on the mousepad so that begs the question if maybe there's vertical acceleration but that should even out when spiralling downwards.

[Bucake]

However from just starting to use it, the mouse either doesn't track on my mousepad that well or has skipping because I notice that it doesn't register some movements sporadically.

Unless it's defective, I noticed that when drawing spirals the pointer slowly moves upwards.

I'm pretty certain that the mouse is not moving upwards on the mousepad so that begs the question if maybe there's vertical acceleration but that should even out when spiralling downwards.

which mouse pad? the sensor in the ducky secret is known to have issues on some (hard) surfaces. i have a Zowie FK2 with the same sensor, and it performs bad on my aluminium pad and my plastic pads..
try a black cloth mouse mat if you have one, it should give you good results.
(also, i'd suggest using the Pencil in mspaint, since it looks like you're using Brush?)

edit: couldn't find anything about a similar problem (although it's difficult to google for). i only found a thread with a different problem, but since it links to a firmware update i'll paste it nonetheless:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1583936/solved-with-firmware-update-ducky-secret-sensor-issue
the firmware update will probably not help you, but you might want to grab it in case it ever gets taken down.

[GL1TCH3D]

However from just starting to use it, the mouse either doesn't track on my mousepad that well or has skipping because I notice that it doesn't register some movements sporadically.

Unless it's defective, I noticed that when drawing spirals the pointer slowly moves upwards.

I'm pretty certain that the mouse is not moving upwards on the mousepad so that begs the question if maybe there's vertical acceleration but that should even out when spiralling downwards.

which mouse pad? the sensor in the ducky secret is known to have issues on some (hard) surfaces. i have a Zowie FK2 with the same sensor, and it performs bad on my aluminium pad and my plastic pads..
try a black cloth mouse mat if you have one, it should give you good results.
(also, i'd suggest using the Pencil in mspaint, since it looks like you're using Brush?)

edit: couldn't find anything about a similar problem (although it's difficult to google for). i only found a thread with a different problem, but since it links to a firmware update i'll paste it nonetheless:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1583936/solved-with-firmware-update-ducky-secret-sensor-issue
the firmware update will probably not help you, but you might want to grab it in case it ever gets taken down.

Thanks I'll grab the firmware and do more tests tonight before installing it to see if it makes a difference. I'll watch to make sure I'm not actually inching the mouse forward a tiny bit every time...

[Bucake]

However from just starting to use it, the mouse either doesn't track on my mousepad that well or has skipping because I notice that it doesn't register some movements sporadically.

Unless it's defective, I noticed that when drawing spirals the pointer slowly moves upwards.

I'm pretty certain that the mouse is not moving upwards on the mousepad so that begs the question if maybe there's vertical acceleration but that should even out when spiralling downwards.

which mouse pad? the sensor in the ducky secret is known to have issues on some (hard) surfaces. i have a Zowie FK2 with the same sensor, and it performs bad on my aluminium pad and my plastic pads..
try a black cloth mouse mat if you have one, it should give you good results.
(also, i'd suggest using the Pencil in mspaint, since it looks like you're using Brush?)

edit: couldn't find anything about a similar problem (although it's difficult to google for). i only found a thread with a different problem, but since it links to a firmware update i'll paste it nonetheless:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1583936/solved-with-firmware-update-ducky-secret-sensor-issue
the firmware update will probably not help you, but you might want to grab it in case it ever gets taken down.

Thanks I'll grab the firmware and do more tests tonight before installing it to see if it makes a difference. I'll watch to make sure I'm not actually inching the mouse forward a tiny bit every time...

if you use Pencil, set Size to 1px to get a 1:1 ratio (1 count = 1 pixel). this will create the most "honest" pattern, that clearly shows what your PC picks up from your mouse.
more importantly, do the test with two (or even more) mice, that way you can see if this behavior only happens with the Secret (or if it's you!) :-)

from what i've read, the Secret is a good mouse. so i think (and hope) that your mouse isn't faulty.

[GL1TCH3D]

However from just starting to use it, the mouse either doesn't track on my mousepad that well or has skipping because I notice that it doesn't register some movements sporadically.

Unless it's defective, I noticed that when drawing spirals the pointer slowly moves upwards.

I'm pretty certain that the mouse is not moving upwards on the mousepad so that begs the question if maybe there's vertical acceleration but that should even out when spiralling downwards.

which mouse pad? the sensor in the ducky secret is known to have issues on some (hard) surfaces. i have a Zowie FK2 with the same sensor, and it performs bad on my aluminium pad and my plastic pads..
try a black cloth mouse mat if you have one, it should give you good results.
(also, i'd suggest using the Pencil in mspaint, since it looks like you're using Brush?)

edit: couldn't find anything about a similar problem (although it's difficult to google for). i only found a thread with a different problem, but since it links to a firmware update i'll paste it nonetheless:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1583936/solved-with-firmware-update-ducky-secret-sensor-issue
the firmware update will probably not help you, but you might want to grab it in case it ever gets taken down.

Thanks I'll grab the firmware and do more tests tonight before installing it to see if it makes a difference. I'll watch to make sure I'm not actually inching the mouse forward a tiny bit every time...

if you use Pencil, set Size to 1px to get a 1:1 ratio (1 count = 1 pixel). this will create the most "honest" pattern, that clearly shows what your PC picks up from your mouse.
more importantly, do the test with two (or even more) mice, that way you can see if this behavior only happens with the Secret (or if it's you!) :-)

from what i've read, the Secret is a good mouse. so i think (and hope) that your mouse isn't faulty.

I'll definitely try with the g502 when I get home then because I know that one works perfectly. The only uissue is that for my grip the g502 isn't great and the scroll wheel is acting up... gotta get an rma sigh

[GL1TCH3D]

Just an update I got back home and tried the same test with both my mice but didn't notice the "inching up" issue this time so maybe my hand was slowly inching up when I did the first test (I could have sworn I saw some skipping when using it on my desktop) so for now everything seems good!

I still have a copy of the firmware if ever something weird starts happening I can always try that before rmaing.

[FreeCopy]

Just an update I got back home and tried the same test with both my mice but didn't notice the "inching up" issue this time so maybe my hand was slowly inching up when I did the first test (I could have sworn I saw some skipping when using it on my desktop) so for now everything seems good!

I still have a copy of the firmware if ever something weird starts happening I can always try that before rmaing.

I had the same skipping problem with my secret. Switching from a USB3 to USB2 port seemed to be the fix for me. No idea why that seems to be an issue but I've been using it since mid Feb with no issues.

[Bucake]

heh :-)
well, plenty of variables could cause something that would seem off. could be your hardware, your software, maybe something in the firmware of the mouse..
but it's nice that your mouse seems to be working!

i wonder if it's the last PBT-shelled mouse we'll ever see

[GL1TCH3D]

Just an update I got back home and tried the same test with both my mice but didn't notice the "inching up" issue this time so maybe my hand was slowly inching up when I did the first test (I could have sworn I saw some skipping when using it on my desktop) so for now everything seems good!

I still have a copy of the firmware if ever something weird starts happening I can always try that before rmaing.

I had the same skipping problem with my secret. Switching from a USB3 to USB2 port seemed to be the fix for me. No idea why that seems to be an issue but I've been using it since mid Feb with no issues.

hmm, interesting you mention that because I switched from a usb3 port to usb2 port (so both the logitech and ducky were using adjacent usb 2.0 ports) and hadn't noticed any issues when testing side by side. Maybe it's the usb 3 that doesn't like the ducky secret.

[tp4tissue]

Got my mousefeet material..

Updated in my sig.

[azhdar]

Sometimes my mouse (RAT-5) will not be able to move horizontal, only vertical, then it comes back , does that mean it's dying?

What are the current go to go mouse for a 100$ budget? need at least 2 side buttons

Zowie mouses sem nice, which one to get tho?

[Bucake]

this issue has been reported a lot for mice with a PTE (philips twin eye) sensor.
the PTE sensor unfortunately come with a few issues that are apparently native to it..
i've seen the specific issue you're having being called "axis lock".
there's also the famous Z-axis issue.
and the fact that's it's a laser sensor makes it track a lot better on hard pad, as opposed to cloth.

all you can really do is make sure the sensor and lens are clean (this might be more important than you think), and google what the best surface for the PTE sensor is. the sensor is quite picky.

as for suggesting a mouse.. that's just getting harder by the day. many companies have been pumping out new mice - by now you already have a few dozens of good options if the only criteria is two side-buttons. :-P
all zowie mice have similar internals and i think also use the same buttons and same coating.. so whatever size and shape appeals most to you the most, i guess. :-)

[tp4tissue]

Sometimes my mouse (RAT-5) will not be able to move horizontal, only vertical, then it comes back , does that mean it's dying?

What are the current go to go mouse for a 100$ budget? need at least 2 side buttons

Zowie mouses sem nice, which one to get tho?

G502...  or, mod an older WMO/IMO 1.1,  many people have these around the house..



I'm still not convinced on the Zowie..  check that latency chart.. 

[tp4tissue]

Hai guys..

I have a Microsoft Intellimouse (ball mouse),  how come it doesn't work with a passive ps/2 to usb adapter.

On the bottom of the mouse it says , Serial and PS/2 compatible. the cable is native PS/2

It works in my other pc which has ps/2 so I know the mouse isn't broken.




Ffff......  I'm sorry everyone..   I read Serial and thought USB,  I forgot about SERIAL serial..

[tp4tissue]

Dang.. I have a serial port. but I don't have any serial cables..

[DAOWAce]

So, the Sensei's sensor is actually garbage?

What about the old Logitech G3?  That was the mouse I used before switching to the Sensei.

I've had accuracy issues ever since the switch, and arguably I even had them with the G3 from my prior ball mouse.  It's been and endless downhill spiral.

I've gone this route because I need an ambidextrous mouse due to the way I hold it (fingertip claw hybrid).  The Sensei was the closest to the G3 that I found, so I got it.  Little did I know Steelseries' top end mouse was actually a piece of trash (and bigger than expected).  I've gone through 3 of them now and I'm looking into replacing it finally.

I can't stand change so I was hoping to find something identical (ambidextrous, dual small side buttons on BOTH sides, one button for DPI switch on top, small profile).  I see Steelseries made the Rival series of mice.. but they lack right side buttons, and the R700 has too much fluff on it, so they're all out of the question.

The new Logitech mouse (G900) with that "golden" 3366 sensor seems to be quite similar (if you can add the right buttons).. but the physical design of it is just atrocious, and it's $150.

Why do companies stop producing good mice?

[tp4tissue]

So, the Sensei's sensor is actually garbage?

What about the old Logitech G3?  That was the mouse I used before switching to the Sensei.

I've had accuracy issues ever since the switch, and arguably I even had them with the G3 from my prior ball mouse.  It's been and endless downhill spiral.

I've gone this route because I need an ambidextrous mouse due to the way I hold it (fingertip claw hybrid).  The Sensei was the closest to the G3 that I found, so I got it.  Little did I know Steelseries' top end mouse was actually a piece of trash (and bigger than expected).  I've gone through 3 of them now and I'm looking into replacing it finally.

I can't stand change so I was hoping to find something identical (ambidextrous, dual small side buttons on BOTH sides, one button for DPI switch on top, small profile).  I see Steelseries made the Rival series of mice.. but they lack right side buttons, and the R700 has too much fluff on it, so they're all out of the question.

The new Logitech mouse (G900) with that "golden" 3366 sensor seems to be quite similar (if you can add the right buttons).. but the physical design of it is just atrocious, and it's $150.

Why do companies stop producing good mice?

You need G303..

But I'm not up to date on the mouse wiggle problem..

IMHO, it's probably an easy fix , but people don't want to open the mouse with a fresh warranty

[DAOWAce]

You need G303..

Lacks right side buttons, which I use as page up/down, both in games and in windows (especially in windows; damn essential).

If I didn't need them, I'd have Steelseries swap me to a Rival with my RMA, seeing as they have better sensors.

[stingrae]

You need G303..

Lacks right side buttons, which I use as page up/down, both in games and in windows (especially in windows; damn essential).

If I didn't need them, I'd have Steelseries swap me to a Rival with my RMA, seeing as they have better sensors.

Oo I've never found page up or page down essential. Usually I find I'm pressing home and end...

Honestly as long as a mouse has mb4 and mb5 i'm content. Though I used a razer abyssus for a pretty long time so I know it's manageable.

[iLLucionist]

Enlighten me. What do you guys think. 3310 or 3366? What is heaven on earth with a cable attached to it? What makes my cursor move so smoothly that it makes me cry that I want to have babies with my mouse?

[Bucake]

What is heaven on earth with a cable attached to it? What makes my cursor move so smoothly that it makes me cry that I want to have babies with my mouse?

only the 3360/3366 is that sharp. but the there are a lot more mice available with the 3310..
it's likely that there's a 3310-mouse that has a good shape for you, but if you want the 3360 then you will have to be lucky that any of them are a good fit.
well.. there actually are other(older) sensors that are quite good as well, but all of them have issues or otherwise shortcomings. things like very limited cpi-steps (sometimes even fewer non-interpolated steps), angle snapping, jitter, low perfect tracking speed, etc.

anyway:
the 3310 has higher motion delay and higher "variance". meaning the 3366 is basically more accurate, and faster to respond.
the 3366 has higher perfect tracking speed (though the 3310 is already high enough for 99% of the gamers).
the 3366 is capable of almost twice the fps (12000 vs the 6400 of the 3310) potentially making it a lot more smooth, but this probably isn't really something you'd notice. :-)

in the end, the 3366 is really just a straight upgrade to the 3310, but right now you have very few options if you want that sensor.
the 3310 is still a good (enough) sensor, though. personally however i wouldn't buy a 3310 mouse, simply because i know that there's something better out there. :-) but that's just me

[tp4tissue]

Does anyone know the  mx518's native dpi..

I have both the v1 and a v2

[Bucake]

Mx518: 400 and 1600
Mx518 (1800cpi): 800 and 1800

[tp4tissue]

Mx518: 400 and 1600
Mx518 (1800cpi): 800 and 1800

thx..

I wonder if the latter could be flashed to a g400

[GL1TCH3D]

Ugh the ducky mouse is having sensor issues. Every now and again the mouse will just "jump" either up or down.

[tp4tissue]

Ugh the ducky mouse is having sensor issues. Every now and again the mouse will just "jump" either up or down.

didn't someone say there was a firmware update.

also,  Did you do the surface tuning ? I read it also haz the surface tuning..

[xtrafrood]

This is a fantastic write up! I was a little confused as to why my Avago 9800 'jitters' when I raise the cpi past 6,000. High cpi is great for my wrist but bad for my tracking

[Bucake]

This is a fantastic write up! I was a little confused as to why my Avago 9800 'jitters' when I raise the cpi past 6,000. High cpi is great for my wrist but bad for my tracking

mice with Philips Twin-Eye sensors stay very sharp in their tracking at high cpi. they do have other shortcoming/issues, however.
but if you really love that high cpi stuff then you could look up some PTE mice to see if any of them seem interesting to you.
under "Doppler Shift" you'll find a bunch of mouse that use(d) this kind of sensor: http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/gaming-mouse-sensor-list
PLN2030 being the oldest version and PLN2034 being the newest

[xtrafrood]

This is a fantastic write up! I was a little confused as to why my Avago 9800 'jitters' when I raise the cpi past 6,000. High cpi is great for my wrist but bad for my tracking

mice with Philips Twin-Eye sensors stay very sharp in their tracking at high cpi. they do have other shortcoming/issues, however.
but if you really love that high cpi stuff then you could look up some PTE mice to see if any of them seem interesting to you.
under "Doppler Shift" you'll find a bunch of mouse that use(d) this kind of sensor: http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/gaming-mouse-sensor-list
PLN2030 being the oldest version and PLN2034 being the newest

Hmmm, looks like the Razor Naga falls in to the PLN2034 category. Thanks for the link! I've considered using an MMO mouse for the extra buttons but now I see there is more to that particular mouse. I'll probably have a collection by the end of this year )

[Bucake]

afaik you can map each button to whatever you want (including macros), so that should be nice if you could make use of them.
be sure to google about issues, though! PTE sensors can be tricky bastards, and i don't wanna be the guy who pointed you to a regrettable purchase :-P
(the most famous complaint with PTE sensors is the Z-Axis issue.)

[xtrafrood]

I coast at such a high cpi to prevent me from needing to lift the mouse so I would probably be ok with that. No worries! I enjoy reading about all the different advantages of each sensor/mouse

[GL1TCH3D]

Ugh the ducky mouse is having sensor issues. Every now and again the mouse will just "jump" either up or down.

didn't someone say there was a firmware update.

also,  Did you do the surface tuning ? I read it also haz the surface tuning..

The firmware that was posted is an older firmware. Haven't tried it but the issue is recent...

I did the surface tuning but who knows if the glass coated mousepad is interfering with the sensor. I'm not using the one that booper bought me yet beccause I want a wrist rest for my  mouse haha so I'm still using the one that's really used and the surface is not even in color anymore. I'll try retuning the mouse but I distinctly remember doing that originally.

[iLLucionist]

How's the G502 Quality control and mouse feet nowadays? And is the G303 rattle still there?

Considering buying either one of them... curious whether issues are fixed.

[Bucake]

The firmware that was posted is an older firmware. Haven't tried it but the issue is recent...

I did the surface tuning but who knows if the glass coated mousepad is interfering with the sensor. I'm not using the one that booper bought me yet beccause I want a wrist rest for my  mouse haha so I'm still using the one that's really used and the surface is not even in color anymore. I'll try retuning the mouse but I distinctly remember doing that originally.

do you have any other surfaces? it should work perfectly fine on regular cloth. i suppose there is a chance that the coating is upsetting the sensor.
mine did not work on hard pad at all, they just wouldn't register mouse movement 50% of the time.
but mine had no surface tuning stuff, so i'd recommend trying out different settings to see if that makes a difference.

How's the G502 Quality control and mouse feet nowadays? And is the G303 rattle still there?

Considering buying either one of them... curious whether issues are fixed.

the G303 sensor rattle seems to be hit-or-miss. the G303 thread on overclock has a ton of complaints about it. some people tried out 4+ mice before they had one without the rattling. some just fixed it themselves by taping or even gluing the sensor stuck to the mouse..
roulette!

[iLLucionist]

The firmware that was posted is an older firmware. Haven't tried it but the issue is recent...

I did the surface tuning but who knows if the glass coated mousepad is interfering with the sensor. I'm not using the one that booper bought me yet beccause I want a wrist rest for my  mouse haha so I'm still using the one that's really used and the surface is not even in color anymore. I'll try retuning the mouse but I distinctly remember doing that originally.

do you have any other surfaces? it should work perfectly fine on regular cloth. i suppose there is a chance that the coating is upsetting the sensor.
mine did not work on hard pad at all, they just wouldn't register mouse movement 50% of the time.
but mine had no surface tuning stuff, so i'd recommend trying out different settings to see if that makes a difference.

How's the G502 Quality control and mouse feet nowadays? And is the G303 rattle still there?

Considering buying either one of them... curious whether issues are fixed.

the G303 sensor rattle seems to be hit-or-miss. the G303 thread on overclock has a ton of complaints about it. some people tried out 4+ mice before they had one without the rattling. some just fixed it themselves by taping or even gluing the sensor stuck to the mouse..
roulette!

Too bad. I'd like the G303 for finger tip grip. Should check out G502 then... weird that Logitech doesn't fix this. Seems they cheapskated on the G303.

[Bucake]

yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.

as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]

anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P

[tp4tissue]

yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.

as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]

anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P

what double click issue ?

[iLLucionist]

yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.

as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]

anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P

what double click issue ?

Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.

I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.

[Bucake]

what double click issue ?

you do not know about this?
or are you just skeptical about me claiming the G502 can have the issue?

it's basically where you click the button only once, but the mouse actually registers 2 clicks.
or when you hold the mouse button, sometimes the mouse actually registers a 'release', so you can't drag-and-drop anymore, or spray in a game like csgo.
if you'd google the (double click) issue you'll see that it's widespread. especially the razer deathadder mice are known to get the issue at some point.

[xtrafrood]

yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.

as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]

anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P

what double click issue ?

Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.

I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.

No one is mentioning loose pcbs? I was having some double click issues on my trackman until today. Hotglue

The trackman's PCBs wiggles loose over time I guess and causes switch bouncing. The trackman's PCBs are not attached to the mouse body with a screw like the g502. Probably not the issue. Anyway, replacement omrons are cheap. Looks like Logitech likes the Omron D2FC-F-7N switch. I don't have a g502 so I have no idea if it uses that switch or not though

what double click issue ?

you do not know about this?
or are you just skeptical about me claiming the G502 can have the issue?

it's basically where you click the button only once, but the mouse actually registers 2 clicks.
or when you hold the mouse button, sometimes the mouse actually registers a 'release', so you can't drag-and-drop anymore, or spray in a game like csgo.
if you'd google the (double click) issue you'll see that it's widespread. especially the razer deathadder mice are known to get the issue at some point.

This was the exact problem I had with my trackman haha

[woll3]

yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.

as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]

anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P

what double click issue ?

Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.

I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.

All of those, to reduce Button latency you subsequently have to reduce Debounce time, the insides switches of the switches can bend over time which causes more bouncing due to overtravel(easy to see on the DA and EC), they can get dirty, they can oxidize, etc., and therefore the original debounce time doesnt work. A4Tech´s lightstrike switches are circumventing this problem by obv. using a lightstrike, Fühlen has a similar Solution as well, but it cannot be called a microswitch anymore.

[iLLucionist]

yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.

as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]

anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P

what double click issue ?

Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.

I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.

All of those, to reduce Button latency you subsequently have to reduce Debounce time, the insides switches of the switches can bend over time which causes more bouncing due to overtravel(easy to see on the DA and EC), they can get dirty, they can oxidize, etc., and therefore the original debounce time doesnt work. A4Tech´s lightstrike switches are circumventing this problem by obv. using a lightstrike, Fühlen has a similar Solution as well, but it cannot be called a microswitch anymore.

Does this mean that the G502 is essentially flawed? Or that you need to tweak / fix it a little after a particular amount of usage?

[woll3]

yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.

as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]

anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P

what double click issue ?

Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.

I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.

All of those, to reduce Button latency you subsequently have to reduce Debounce time, the insides switches of the switches can bend over time which causes more bouncing due to overtravel(easy to see on the DA and EC), they can get dirty, they can oxidize, etc., and therefore the original debounce time doesnt work. A4Tech´s lightstrike switches are circumventing this problem by obv. using a lightstrike, Fühlen has a similar Solution as well, but it cannot be called a microswitch anymore.

Does this mean that the G502 is essentially flawed? Or that you need to tweak / fix it a little after a particular amount of usage?

Not at all, it is actually impressive how long the switches last with those debounce times. And yes from a technical perspective that would be the right thing to do, but previous attempts from Dexin Contractors have only confused the average joe and spammed the support with "I put the delay on the lowest settings and i get doubleclicks, when i put it higher it works fine.", obv. it could have been better explained with tool tips, but i dont think that would have changed anything.

[xtrafrood]

yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.

as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]

anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P

what double click issue ?

Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.

I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.

All of those, to reduce Button latency you subsequently have to reduce Debounce time, the insides switches of the switches can bend over time which causes more bouncing due to overtravel(easy to see on the DA and EC), they can get dirty, they can oxidize, etc., and therefore the original debounce time doesnt work. A4Tech´s lightstrike switches are circumventing this problem by obv. using a lightstrike, Fühlen has a similar Solution as well, but it cannot be called a microswitch anymore.

Does this mean that the G502 is essentially flawed? Or that you need to tweak / fix it a little after a particular amount of usage?

I searched around it and it looks like Razer mice suffer the most from debounce. Maybe this was during the same period of time when they had keyboard switch problems? I had to hunt around for a few minutes before I found a G502 issue. A bad batch perhaps? Who knows

[iLLucionist]

yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.

as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]

anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P

what double click issue ?

Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.

I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.

All of those, to reduce Button latency you subsequently have to reduce Debounce time, the insides switches of the switches can bend over time which causes more bouncing due to overtravel(easy to see on the DA and EC), they can get dirty, they can oxidize, etc., and therefore the original debounce time doesnt work. A4Tech´s lightstrike switches are circumventing this problem by obv. using a lightstrike, Fühlen has a similar Solution as well, but it cannot be called a microswitch anymore.

Does this mean that the G502 is essentially flawed? Or that you need to tweak / fix it a little after a particular amount of usage?

I searched around it and it looks like Razer mice suffer the most from debounce. Maybe this was during the same period of time when they had keyboard switch problems? I had to hunt around for a few minutes before I found a G502 issue. A bad batch perhaps? Who knows

Hmmm... I want to feel the sensor of the G502 so I'll probably one anyway. 80 euro's is not cheap, but it is not a dealbreaker. I still have my trustworthy Avior 7000's. And my crappy G400s (god I hate that thing). But I will be able to mouse anyho.

[woll3]

yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.

as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]

anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P

what double click issue ?

Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.

I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.

All of those, to reduce Button latency you subsequently have to reduce Debounce time, the insides switches of the switches can bend over time which causes more bouncing due to overtravel(easy to see on the DA and EC), they can get dirty, they can oxidize, etc., and therefore the original debounce time doesnt work. A4Tech´s lightstrike switches are circumventing this problem by obv. using a lightstrike, Fühlen has a similar Solution as well, but it cannot be called a microswitch anymore.

Does this mean that the G502 is essentially flawed? Or that you need to tweak / fix it a little after a particular amount of usage?

I searched around it and it looks like Razer mice suffer the most from debounce. Maybe this was during the same period of time when they had keyboard switch problems? I had to hunt around for a few minutes before I found a G502 issue. A bad batch perhaps? Who knows

As mentioned earlier(altough not clearly) it is a mostly a shelldesign/leverage issue, there is more force working onto the switch which is also why people say that the button actuation on it is rather light, the uniform top shell is only making it worse as well, but some people can use it for years depending on their grip.

[xtrafrood]

I watched a few teardown videos of the g502, that top shell looks a bit thin. I guess I see what you mean

[iLLucionist]

I watched a few teardown videos of the g502, that top shell looks a bit thin. I guess I see what you mean

So... what does that have to do with double clicking? Does it matter? Is it crappy quality?

[xtrafrood]

I watched a few teardown videos of the g502, that top shell looks a bit thin. I guess I see what you mean

So... what does that have to do with double clicking? Does it matter? Is it crappy quality?

I don't have a G502 so I have no idea what build quality is like. I was just commenting on the thickness of the top shell