What's more imporant for ergo / feel: switch (Topre) versus board (Ergodox)?

[iLLucionist]

So I am in the Church of Topre... I have 2 HHKBs white... 1 black.... Realforce 87UB in white AND black... and the Realforce R2 in white AND black.

But for dem office... I need another board to use their permanently and I have two contenders:

1. Yet another Realforce R2 Topre (great for office, since it's silent I get less deadstares than when I bring my MX whites or browns)

2. Ergodox / Moonlander? I am also fond of the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000. But the quality sucks big time, and typing on that dome only feels good for about a month (seriously, my GF has erg issues and I replace the board every 6 months for her). And yes I am aware of the ergo issues many people point out with the ergodox / moonlander layouts. But I find the kinesis absolutely hideous. That's too much sacrifice for erg for me.

Soo.... is it SWITCH (Topre) versus ERGO (Kailh white)?

What is ultimately more important for erg / typing experience... the position of the keys or the switch themselves?

I can imagine that if you are constantly bottoming out on, let's say, mx blacks or reds even coz they so light you also constantly put strain on your hands (orings aside).

[Boy_314]

i believe switch is more important. a switch not suited to the user will ruin an ergonomic-layout keyboard, but it's not so much the case vice versa.

[Volny]

Surely it depends on what part of your body you're most trying to take care of. If you're worried about arthritis in the knuckles, then unpadded clicky switches with a rock-hard bottom-out are going to be your worst enemy. If you're worried about posture or strain in the wrists and forearms, then keyboard shape is going to be more important than switches.

[TacticalCoder]

For me it's switch (Topre) any day over non-Topre ergo...

I wish I could have both.  I so wish the "custom keyboard" community would be into Topre switches as much as Cherry MX switches...

I kinda know the exact custom, split, layout I want (some custom layouts are really well though out).  But I want it with Topre switches.

Sometimes I type on laptops, on the laptop's integrated keyboard.  Everytime I come back to one of my HHKB it feels like pure bliss.  It's been nine years I'm using HHKB now and every single time I come back I think to myself "what a pleasure to type on this".

[iLLucionist]

Sometimes I type on laptops, on the laptop's integrated keyboard.  Everytime I come back to one of my HHKB it feels like pure bliss.  It's been nine years I'm using HHKB now and every single time I come back I think to myself "what a pleasure to type on this".

Yeah I have the same. I have a Lenovo X1 Carbon 5th gen, but the keyboard is nothing compared to my Topre's. I also like some MX-switches, but I always keep coming back to Topre in the long run.

[tiltowait]

Board by a country mile. If it can't tent, it's not ergo in my book.

[_rubik]

i believe switch is more important. a switch not suited to the user will ruin an ergonomic-layout keyboard, but it's not so much the case vice versa.

Agreed. I hated my ED and Atreus (to a lesser degree) because of poor switch and case material choice. Live and learn, I guess

[Sup]

I went ortho over Topre what a shame when i just bought a HHKB Type-s but, I do feel more comfortable with a split ortholinear.

[Chalkboard]

I actually am dealing with this tradeoff right now. I primarily use a Cloudnine C989 keyboard (split staggered fullsize). However, I disassembled it over the weekend to de-solder the stock switches (Cherry MX Blue) and replace them with BOX Royal switches. I didn't get a chance to finish the project so I had to use a backup for work this week.

The backup is a NiZ Plum 108 standard layout. I replaced the domes with BKE redux domes (BKE Heavy in particular). While they aren't the same as stock Topre domes (I actually prefer the more snappy tactility of the BKE domes over the more rounded tactility of Topre and other clones), they still have the soft/cushion-y and smooth feel that you typically get with a dome with slider switch like Topre.

I can say without a doubt that I can't tolerate non-split boards for very long anymore. Within a few hours of use yesterday, I started getting pain in my wrists, forearms, and shoulders from using a non-split board. So I'm easily on the ERGO side of this debate. I would actually much rather use the stock C989 with the Cherry MX blue switches and suffer through all of the typos due to the light weighting/lack of tactility than use my favorite BKE Heavy switches. Although, I did try using an Ergodox EZ for about a week and developed pain in my thumbs from stretching and curling my thumbs when using the thumb clusters. So I guess the caveat is that ERGO > switch assuming you have the RIGHT ergo for you.

It's a shame because I heavily bottom out, and the soft feel of Topre/dome with slider is so nice. I had a chance to use one of the halves of the C989 that I completed the switch swap on. The BOX Royal switches are actually very similar in terms of weighting and snappy tactility as the BKE Heavy domes, although the tactility seems to slightly reduce with typing at speed with the BOX Royal switches whereas the tactility of the BKE Heavy domes stays relatively constant regardless of typing speed. The real problems are that BOX Royal switches are the harsh bottom out and the lack of "unified" and smooth key travel resulting from the contact-based metal/plastic design. I've never used o-rings, and I wonder if adding them to the BOX Royals would make them feel more "rubber dome" like. Obviously it won't help with the smoothness of the key travel though.

[Polymer]

I'd go with whatever you enjoy using the most in a work environment.

Sounds like Topre for you...

Personally, I'd go Topre...Going with another switch will be louder..plus giving up Topre..even if Ergo, do I really want to use that all the time?

[absyrd]

For ease on my hands and brain at age 40, I’ve completely switched over to RFs. For some reason I just can’t type on Mx unless PCB mount. I took two writing courses this summer, and I have 3 coming up in the fall. Stick with what’s been comfy for you, IMO. If you wanna test an ergo and have the disposable income, try at home first.

[Auslander]

For ease on my hands and brain at age 40, I’ve completely switched over to RFs. For some reason I just can’t type on Mx unless PCB mount. I took two writing courses this summer, and I have 3 coming up in the fall. Stick with what’s been comfy for you, IMO. If you wanna test an ergo and have the disposable income, try at home first.

I also have the same issue, just cant type on MX unless PCB mount, been using Topre as my daily drivers for a while and havent looked back since. Even NOS Cherry MY is more usable for me than MX )