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geekhack Community => Input Devices => Topic started by: typo on Sat, 12 October 2019, 10:00:27

Title: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Sat, 12 October 2019, 10:00:27
Of course a mouse is usually much more precise, easier to use and often offers many more features" onboard. A track ball as you know is much less precise, difficult to use and often requires a "learning curve" to become used to it. However A mouse can cause pain and ultimately permanent serious injury to those that use them for long periods. A track ball will generally do no such thing. Which is IMO the main, and only attraction of a track ball. I was wondering which is over all preferred among those of you that frequent this forum? If you do prefer a track ball do you manage to obtain mouse like precision form it? If so, how? I have probably the most precise one here right now but it is no G502 HERO. The Track bal of mine is not a Logitech either. It is a "JDM" Elecom Thumb G-Pro model. I would have liked to make this a poll but I am not aware of how to do so on this forum. If I still can after posting, would someone please let me know how to do so? Thank you
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: suicidal_orange on Sun, 13 October 2019, 14:31:23
The only time I've used a trackball was when a colleague had computer problems so I had to use theirs.  It probably wasn't a good one and without practice my accuracy was really bad...

Being as my last couple of mice have not impressed me and I no longer game so don't need accuracy immediately my next 'mouse' will probably be a trackball unless there's a really good 'other' I don't know about yet.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: jakereps on Sun, 13 October 2019, 14:38:39
Picked up the Logitech MX Ergo this week, and after a bit of learning I like it much more than any mouse I've used. I currently own a MX Master 2S, and a Steel Series Rival 650 Wireless. I'll still use the Rival for games, and the 2S will probably be my daily driver at home only because of the hassle of transport of the trackball between home/work and not wanting to buy a second one so quick.

The Ergo I picked up was a "Plus" because that's all Best Buy had in stock - wanted to grab one over lunch break instead of wait for shipping - and it came with an extra wedge for an extra high angle. I like it more than the built-in tilt, so I'm glad I got that one. It also has a precision button on the side to de-sensitize the tracking when needed, but I haven't needed it yet.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Sun, 13 October 2019, 16:19:04
Thank you Orange! I do not like to say he first word in your name, no offense LOL!
jake, I have that one. Wow, you really like a lot of "tenting". That is very high! You must have big hands? Yeah, you look much taller than me if that is you. The whole reason I started this is because I do find them absolutely superior. For one reason. They cause no pain! 14+ hours a day coding with a mouse after so many years is a real pain. If you know what I mean. My issue is I simply do not find them to be as precise a mouse. I even have a much higher end one hen you do. It might just be my own fine motor abilities. I mean I was never great as a kid building models or anything "delicate". It might just be me after all. I did not even think of that at first, Duh. I figured it was a "global" issue with them. Also my registry is set at 26,000 DPI. Even though it is across a lot of screen "real estate" it is still 26,000 DPI. I have applied heavy braking and acceleration to offset that though. Still, if it is myself it is not a good combination to be certain. I might try slowing it down some.

Now, like me if you like the MX Ergo. You may want to check out the Japanese Elecom G-Pro Heiss Edition Thumb ball. Street price in Japan is about $325USD. However I found a brand new one in the USA for $69! Watch Amazon and Ebay. If you really want one I will get you the part number. However I must warn you, it is nearly "flat" compared to what you have there now. It has very little "tenting", It is just right for my small hands however. I did not even have the MX Ergo "tilted", let alone the "boot" on it. It is a considerably better Thumb ball though if you are interested in one for home or whatever.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Leslieann on Mon, 14 October 2019, 03:30:20
A trackball by itself is not going to stop the issue, ANY repetitive motion causes issues, not just in your wrist.

Also, beware the thumb style trackballs, those KILL my hand. Not sure if it's RSI or arthritis or both but yeah, not fun for me. I also can't do trigger shifters on mountain bikes.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Mon, 14 October 2019, 10:14:49
Some people cannot do the thumb indeed. Some, not the palm. Everyone is different. Those that have no medical degree and state that the thumb causes RSI have made claims on an unfounded basis IMO. Mice have indeed injured me multiple times. Never the thumb. I would imagine big companies such as Logitech have researched this as well. The last thing they want are lawsuits! I personally find the thumb to work best for me. I might have added full disclosure to this though. I have a "tremor" which, for me personally makes it more difficult to control at very high DPI. I imagine for a lot of people this is not a point. Especially on one of the grade that I now posses. I really did not have any issue until I hit this absurd DPI. Of course I did not previously have this much "screen" to cover either. I tried slowing it down some to a better balance for me and it did in fact make a world of difference. So, already my "poll" sort of has no purpose to begin with. They are in fact probably as accurate for many people. My bad :)
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Tactile on Mon, 14 October 2019, 13:04:27
As to trackballs being much less precise: I have a DT225 (https://www.apem.com/us/dt225-426.html) and more than one Itac (http://www.itacsystems.com/industrial-desktops.html) trackballs. These devices are as precise as any mouse I've used.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Leslieann on Mon, 14 October 2019, 18:58:37
Those that have no medical degree and state that the thumb causes RSI have made claims on an unfounded basis IMO. Mice have indeed injured me multiple times. Never the thumb.

The thumb is now actually considered a common one now thanks to smart phones.
Also, your sample size is too small.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Mon, 14 October 2019, 19:53:54
Perhaps. I am just saying I have been using them thousands of hours and not even close to an injury. YMMV. I use a mouse one work day and am sore. Slowing it down some was key.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: suicidal_orange on Thu, 17 October 2019, 18:34:08
Still no votes for 'other', was hoping someone was going to post something interesting they use...
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Thu, 17 October 2019, 19:30:33
I would like to see the poll results please if there any? I was not aware that it was going to be made private. As for myself, this was actually a pointless posting after all. The high end Thumb ball is in fact 'more' precise than the best gaming mice IMO. I simply had he registry settings way too aggressive on it. Now that I backed off. I can fly onto, and park on any single pixel of my choosing. With pinpoint accuracy  I overstepped myself by posting this. Not realizing that the issue was simply my own. Plus, I caused it for myself. I am absolutely, once again 100% satisfied with the high end Thumb ball! I will probably never use a mouse again. Many people that have switched make this comment. Most of them are, are  not using a Trackball/ Thumb ball/ half the quality of this one to begin with. So obviously I was simply mistaken here. Anyone that says they are not as accurate has either not mastered them or does not have them set right. Or it simply is just not the right type of pointing device for them to begin with. Either way, in and of themselves they are as accurate, if not more so than the current top gaming mice IMO. So that is the end of that story. Mod can close the poll if you wish. Thank you
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: suicidal_orange on Thu, 17 October 2019, 19:42:53
Private just means no-one knows who voted for what, to see the 'results' you need to vote (or they'll appear for everyone if I close it)  While you might not care any more I think it's interesting - I would never have guessed the current split even if the sample size is very small.  Will be even more surprising if you vote the way I think you will :))
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Polymer on Fri, 18 October 2019, 03:24:09
I would like to see the poll results please if there any? I was not aware that it was going to be made private. As for myself, this was actually a pointless posting after all. The high end Thumb ball is in fact 'more' precise than the best gaming mice IMO. I simply had he registry settings way too aggressive on it. Now that I backed off. I can fly onto, and park on any single pixel of my choosing. With pinpoint accuracy  I overstepped myself by posting this. Not realizing that the issue was simply my own. Plus, I caused it for myself. I am absolutely, once again 100% satisfied with the high end Thumb ball! I will probably never use a mouse again. Many people that have switched make this comment. Most of them are, are  not using a Trackball/ Thumb ball/ half the quality of this one to begin with. So obviously I was simply mistaken here. Anyone that says they are not as accurate has either not mastered them or does not have them set right. Or it simply is just not the right type of pointing device for them to begin with. Either way, in and of themselves they are as accurate, if not more so than the current top gaming mice IMO. So that is the end of that story. Mod can close the poll if you wish. Thank you

I'm not sure what you mean by accuracy..but for general quick movements with accuracy, a mouse is better..in practice, it is absolutely better....

You can use a trackball for gaming...which is probably the test for quick accurate movements..but it isn't common...and I can't think of any pros that use them..

But for regular computer use..sure, use whatever works best for you...
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Fri, 18 October 2019, 06:29:51
With the correct tool, I beg to differ. However now that tool is already on the "fritz". See my latest post if you wish.

Okay, cool Orange! Thank you!
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 18 October 2019, 06:46:05
The timing of this thread is apt for me. I got sharp pain my right shoulder the other day, and couldn't use my right-handed semi-vertical mouse. I didn't have any good lefty or ambidextrous mouse, so I brought up an old ambidextrous Logitech Trackman from the mouse box and started using it with my left hand.
The precision is pretty bad, but I think maybe the bearings just need cleaning and lube or something.
Curious enough, I do think that I am more precise with the left-handed trackball than I would be with a left-handed mouse.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Leslieann on Fri, 18 October 2019, 13:30:52
I'm not sure what you mean by accuracy..but for general quick movements with accuracy, a mouse is better..in practice, it is absolutely better....

Your idea of accuracy is probably what most people's is, which is several to several dozen or even hundred pixels, which works fine for most computing and gaming. You need quick movements not super precise movements.

Once you start doing per pixel accuracy stuff that is when a trackball really comes into it's own, CAD, per pixel photo editing, audio/video tracks, etc.... It's generally slower but much more precise, especially if you need to move and hold something with that sort of precision. On the other hand, sorry, but thinking you can play something like CS with a trackball, I'd love to see someone actually try. While you might do okay, there's almost no chance of beating a mouse at the same skill levels. The opposite applies to pens, they are usually less precise than even a mouse, however they operate at an even faster level.

Does everyone use them for these purposes, no, but this is how they tend to typically work best.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Stupidface on Fri, 18 October 2019, 14:06:48
While you might not care any more I think it's interesting -

I expect I am taking the minority view, but what I found interesting about the poll was that there was no option for, "Whichever I think will work best at the time."

GHers appear to change their keyboards to suit their mood.  I am baffled as to why this same sort of restlessness would not apply to their use of mice and trackballs as well.

Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: suicidal_orange on Fri, 18 October 2019, 15:43:51
I expect I am taking the minority view, but what I found interesting about the poll was that there was no option for, "Whichever I think will work best at the time."
A good point - option added :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Sat, 19 October 2019, 11:49:30
Actually the very high end "JDM" only, thumb ball that I have now obtained can fly across the screen and park exactly on any single predetermined pixel with ease. although i have been using these on and off for many years. However the MX Ergo for instance can do no such thing. most of them cannot. I specifically picked this one for coding,CAD and photo-shop editing. it is perfect for those tasks. i do agree it would be awkward to play an FPS with it however. just unusual, not that it was not up to the task in a pinch. Also, "street" pricing on this in Tokyo is about $350USD in Yen equivalent. So, I imagine it is aimed to be something completely different than the Logitech type of stuff. I had a friend send it from Tokyo. You cannot get it here. The packaging, manual ETC. not one word other than Japanese. Of course it was pretty straight forward to figure out. The only discrepancy i find is one place it says switches 10 million and another 100 million in my limited Japanese. Omron is indeed 10 million, which is often short lived per Logitech issuing replacements. I also personally have found the least worry of RSI to be on the right thumb of mine. YMMV on that of course. Mice are giving me pain half way through one work day. Never a hint of anything with a stationary thumb ball with adequate tenting on it. This one from Elecom is obviously my "end game" at this point. Along with my Topre I have made so well known by now ) It actually feels good, that at my age this journey is over. I had simply misguided myself with improper registry hacks when I posted this thread. The thing is actually vastly superior to any mouse device to me in multiple ways now.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Mon, 21 October 2019, 06:39:01
After fine tuning the registry more, this thing is pixel perfect. Way above any mouse. That is coming from someone with a severe tremor to boot! Not looking back. It must be on a USB cable. No good on the battery. Makes no difference to me so long as I use a good USB  cable. Which I have.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: kmicu on Mon, 21 October 2019, 13:06:55
Personally I was using MX Master but month ago I bought a ‘broken’ (and dirty cheap) MX Ergo (it had dirt blocking the sensor so fix was trivial, lucky me) since then traditional rat is in a drawer.
I play World of Tanks/Warships with thumb trackball and I really enjoy it. Though I mostly use keyboard (Colemak-DH) for everything so the rat choice is not critical.
In summary after those weeks I will not go back to the traditional mouse. (I also really enjoy that mouse stays in the same place like my keyboard—that feels zen to me ;).

PS I also designed the boiler room in Blender using that thumb trackball. It was also a surprisingly pleasant experience.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Tue, 22 October 2019, 00:49:10
It seems as if that is the usual story. Once most people try a trackball, or especially a Thumb ball they do not wish to see a mouse again. Yet, I am surprised here of all places mouse is winning this early in the game. I figured most self proclaimed "geeks" use a trackball. What do I know about our demographic? I will tell you that once you step out of a consumer Thumb ball into a high precision one there is again a world of difference to be had. The issues are it is very difficult to obtain outside of Japan and also ordinarily cost prohibitive. Luckily I was able to defeat both of those issues on one given day. Now, I too shall never look back. Between my keyboard I have promised to shut up about and this trackball I have found my end game grail once and for all. Feels so good, if I must say so myself! Not only no pain, kind of like a massage! I am using an original Imak wrist rest with it. Avoid the new Imak IMO. If you prefer a "bean bag" all that is any good anymore is the Allsop. It works best with track/thumb balls due to it's width over other mouse wrist rests. Off of your arm support, your wrist really needs to be at about the height of the tenting on the trackball. Which is usually much more than a mouse. Anyways, the comparison of the top Elecom to the MX Ergo here, there is no comparison! The all Japanese manual was of particular interest. I would not run this thing on battery though. Ran into major issues. Corded with good Xcentz cord it tracks flawlessly. Does not need to be cleaned often in a dirty environment. MX Ergo required constant cleaning here. Well, I shall see how this progresses. You folks are letting me down out of the gate  :) 
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Coreda on Tue, 22 October 2019, 00:56:28
I've brought up the use of graphics tablet styli in topics about alternative input devices and ergonomics but presumably so few here use them that I haven't seen replies about it.

Has anyone who enjoys the use of trackballs used a graphics tablet stylus as an input device, using its 'mouse mode' (that is, in regular cursor behavior mode rather than being mapped to the screen position)? I'm curious about thoughts about their ergonomics from those more familiar with trackballs.

As I find them particularly ergonomic since they can be held in any position in the hand and also allow for precise control.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Polymer on Tue, 22 October 2019, 03:26:27
It seems as if that is the usual story. Once most people try a trackball, or especially a Thumb ball they do not wish to see a mouse again. Yet, I am surprised here of all places mouse is winning this early in the game. I figured most self proclaimed "geeks" use a trackball. What do I know about our demographic?

It isn't that people haven't tried a trackball....it is that for all around use, it isn't great....The only reason you think other people would think the same as you is because most people think that if they think something, then of course a majority of people would agree...There is a reason mice are far more popular....
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: saint_james on Tue, 22 October 2019, 03:37:56
Anecdotal:

At work, my mechanical design folks unanimously chose to acquire and use these:
https://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacemouse.html (https://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacemouse.html)

Almost everyone else I know uses some kind of mouse, even after having tried trackballs.  Only one guy at work uses a trackball.  I tried various trackballs for weeks at a time... and they were suboptimal in my (admittedly limited) experience.  Mice seem more precise, more comfortable and faster to me than trackballs.  Trackballs seemed to exacerbate discomfort for me.  Everyone is different, so YMMV. 

When I think I might have an RSI flare-up due to mouse use, I move the mouse to the other side.  I am an ambidextrous mouser.  Taking a guess, I might give up perhaps 10% speed and precision using the mouse with my non-dominant hand. 
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Polymer on Tue, 22 October 2019, 16:01:47
That spacemouse looks awesome....

Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Leslieann on Tue, 22 October 2019, 23:09:04
A LOT of people have tried them.

Trackballs pre-date mice by about 30 years, it's not that people haven't used them, it's that those who did found mice to be more intuitive.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Polymer on Wed, 23 October 2019, 18:58:31
A LOT of people have tried them.

Trackballs pre-date mice by about 30 years, it's not that people haven't used them, it's that those who did found mice to be more intuitive.

Exactly...You actually saw a lot more trackballs a long time ago..You even had them on some laptops...but ultimately more people just preferred mice..
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Wed, 23 October 2019, 22:35:34
The Wacom MobileStudio Pro and SpaceMouse Enterprise are both outstanding viable options as well. They have a steep learning curve. not so much in their hardware functionality but due to all the "features" they have. I personally find just 10 assignable buttons like a top grade mouse more to my liking personally. Unless I needed to see my screen, and outside of photo editing I am not sure why the SpaceMouse is a better "deal" IMO. It is more accurate, precise and has more of the "features" coders could assign. The Wacom tablets are really for photo editing. The spacemouse mostly for CAD drawings but works nicely for coders as well.

I simply prefer what I have. Assuming one is going into It with a strong mastery of such devices. Something such as the one(I was just using) id vastly superior to a mainstream device like the MX Ergo or 518. YMMV, but I find thumb to be the ultimate answer to RSI. Others strongly disagree. so be it. I do not curl my thumb. I leave it fully elongated and just roll in the center. Once I had managed the settings, my own post here had become of no use to me. This, is me and I am a hard core Geek to the bone. for the masses, I agree=mouse. Keep in mind, that my device has a street price of about $350USD in Tokyo as well. so, it too is not a "normal" track/thumb ball either. I am just pointing out that it is a niche market product in fact more along the lines other two just mentioned.Being much more precise than the consumer models is what is key to me. It will take a lot of registry tuning on a PC, which obviously is not for the meek or unversed.

Now, I just got slapped in the face with why I am doing this in the first place! I just killed the $$$$$$ machine that the new Elecom was connected to! Went across the hall to a machine with cherry blues and a G5 rodent. running win10Pro. Instant RSI! After 15 minutes in agony1 sucks. Plus the keyboard compared to a Topre, no thank you! I did learn two interesting things however! The elecom I have here is much more precise than a mouse. second, I am having keys fail to register on cherry blues. so it is not something wrong with my Topre after all. It is indeed my very lite touch typing style.

Anyways, the point is useless. I have what works best for me. there is no reason to second guess it as I am not gaming with it. I do not need to find a higher performance "edge" on competitors in this case. It suits it's need absolutely fine for me 100%. Interesting to see what others select but I think we have a pretty good sample size of that already. mouse it indeed best for most people. 14 hours a day coding for 30+ years requires ergonomics at some point. embody chairs, Sit/stand desks, Track balls of course :) , wrist rests, VESA mounts with full articulation and the list goes on. Other co-workers say my office is "eerie" I am the CEO, so that works out well at least!

I am not risking my health at my age. Ergonomic/office injuries are in fact often serious injuries. This is not simply put, a joking matter. I would not be one to take such lightly at any age. Although safety of all manner has been of great concern to me since I was about 8 years old! I was one of the first people ever in the 50's to wear Ear plugs at a "musical". Before they even had concerts. Plus then the SPL was 1/12 what it is today at a rock concert! I know that last part is OT. I am pointing out that ergonomics plays a large role in my life and is not simply relegated to the workplace for me. It never has been in my case. The thumb ball I was just using checks every box 100% for me, albeit with extensive registry modifications to windows 10 pro. As luck would have it I needed to us a mouse a few hours tonight and instant pain. Not only are they not as accurate for me, they are "dangerous". YMMV. Obviously, since most people are going to end up using a mouse.

As for my Elecom "JDM" thumb Ball I am now 100% satisfied with the proper registry settings to suit my needs. whatever may become of this thread is what it is. I do not check here often. so please take that into consideration if you happen to PM me or whatever. I do apologize in retrospect that I started this apparently for no reason pertaining to myself, although I think it was at least of interest to others. A Trackball is not intuitive like a mouse. you cannot simply pick it up and go. there is a learning curve. in today's age of "want it now" perhaps that is just another reason mice still reign supreme. I figured what the outcome would be. however All that matters to me is me. I settled the issue for myself, simply put by obtaining the finest Thumb ball currently made. It did the job for me. As of now, hand completely dead 1/2 hour on rodent. OH, Please do not PM me if you expect a response, I do not come here often. after I have seen the results of this, perhaps I will check in next year.....thank you!
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Stupidface on Thu, 24 October 2019, 01:31:16
...so I brought up an old ambidextrous Logitech Trackman from the mouse box and started using it with my left hand.

Is this (Logitech T-BB14):

[attachimg=1]

...the model?

Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: carlos.elegado on Mon, 28 October 2019, 08:22:25
I have switched full-time to trackballs.  At home I'm using a Kensington Expert and LOVE it.  No more cramping and using it takes up less desk space.  My work one is an old Ergo.  It is the only one approved for our network.  It's not optimal, but it is still better than any mouse I've ever used. 

As for accuracy, I've never found either of them wanting, once they are properly set up and settings set.

I agree that the Ergos need to be cleaned regularly but they are easy to clean.




Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 28 October 2019, 09:47:05
...so I brought up an old ambidextrous Logitech Trackman from the mouse box and started using it with my left hand.

Is this (Logitech T-BB14):

...the model?
Yes, but with PS/2 even. I have healed sufficiently enough and went back to mouse yesterday.
My problem was in the arm, not in the wrist, and I had been holding the arm in static position too far to the right which isn't good.

One advantage mentioned for trackballs is that you would be able to rest your wrist and only move your fingers around. Actually, with my WowPen mouse, that is what I usually do: rest the wrist on the desk (pad) and move the mouse around: extend and contract the fingers to move up/down, and turn the wrist to move left/right.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Tue, 29 October 2019, 23:13:44
I realized older. smaller mice such as the "g5" are okay with me. I am still moving them. a recipe for disaster. I did like the MX Ergo much better than the MX-518. the Ergo still had many drawbacks. Enter the $350(Street price, Tokyo) Elecom limited edition thumb ball, sent to me from Japan less than $70USD is darn near perfect to me. As many have said on this subject, I shall not be looking back. It is not only faster than any mouse but also much more precise as well. see my "bad" in this post? something is looking to hurt much more than my wrist at the moment! Not leaving this chair! Voodu!
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 22 November 2019, 07:46:19
Mouse good , trackpad bad!!!

Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: sypl on Tue, 26 November 2019, 14:27:43
If your hand/thumb/wrist/shoulder hurts after using a mouse, have you ever considered just switching it to the other side and using your other hand? It's not that hard to learn and will give your main hand time to recover.

Having said all that, best way to avoid a mouse is to learn your shortcuts. I don't use a mouse or trackpad much at all.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Sintpinty on Wed, 27 November 2019, 12:08:27
If your hand/thumb/wrist/shoulder hurts after using a mouse, have you ever considered just switching it to the other side and using your other hand? It's not that hard to learn and will give your main hand time to recover.

Having said all that, best way to avoid a mouse is to learn your shortcuts. I don't use a mouse or trackpad much at all.

My hand never hurts when using a mouse, but always hurts when using a pencil. Exactly why i got into typing and clicking in the first place.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Sintpinty on Wed, 27 November 2019, 12:08:58
...so I brought up an old ambidextrous Logitech Trackman from the mouse box and started using it with my left hand.

Is this (Logitech T-BB14):

(Attachment Link)

...the model?

I thought the trackman was half mouse, half trackball. Is that how you are supposed to use it?
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: mokeyjoe on Thu, 28 May 2020, 16:40:47
If your hand/thumb/wrist/shoulder hurts after using a mouse, have you ever considered just switching it to the other side and using your other hand? It's not that hard to learn and will give your main hand time to recover.

Having said all that, best way to avoid a mouse is to learn your shortcuts. I don't use a mouse or trackpad much at all.

This is what I did about 15 years ago when I had some severe RSI issues. I’ve never had any problems since. I mostly use my left hand now, but switch to the right sometimes when leaning forward (keeping the mouse on the left).

I tried trackballs but they didn’t help with the pain. Which was shame because I think they’re pretty cool. I think the key was to use my mouse in as many different weird positions as possible to avoid repetitive motions and staying on the same position too long.

I can’t game with a mouse really (as that involves being in the same position for too long). Actually the only device I found I could game with was a cheap handheld thumb trackball from amazon. I bought a couple but they kept breaking. The fact that it was handheld meant that I could rest my hand in any orientation and keep mousing - so no pain. The desk-based trackballs don’t have that advantage.

 I never have issues with my thumbs, so I tend to just play console games. If I could find a better handheld thumb trackball I’d like to try it though. There was someone selling modded 360 controllers with a thumb ball in place of the right stick. They were expensive but it would probably work well for me. Maybe a Steam controller too. I don’t tend to play FPS anyway so it’s not a huge issue. Only Doom mostly.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Thu, 04 June 2020, 01:50:10
I forgot about this thread. A while back I was able to procure a JDM Elecom Thumb ball top model. It puts Logi to shame. I have used it exclusively since. I had to hack the registry to 32,000 DPI across 3x 32" 4K displays. No pain whatsoever. It is like a natural extension of my wrist. I love this thing. The problem is most people can't get one. I had a friend in Japan send it to me.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Shapey Fiend on Sat, 19 September 2020, 12:57:58
If your hand/thumb/wrist/shoulder hurts after using a mouse, have you ever considered just switching it to the other side and using your other hand? It's not that hard to learn and will give your main hand time to recover.

Having said all that, best way to avoid a mouse is to learn your shortcuts. I don't use a mouse or trackpad much at all.

Sorry to rez thread but I must say this is a fantastic tip. I keep getting sore muscle above my shoulder blade that eventually spreads down my arm from doing CAD 50+ hours a week and switching to my left hand is a bit slower but it's helped a lot.

Ordered myself a wired Kensington Expert. Haven't had any experience with trackballs yet and I couldn't find a ton of info about doing things like CAD with it but I figure anything I can do to mix things up a bit would be good even if it's just for leisure time.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: noisyturtle on Mon, 05 October 2020, 17:42:02
I thought I would get used to the inaccuracy of the trackball but after a month I still keep my mouse next to it if I need to do something efficiently and quickly. I don't think a trackball can ever replace the accuracy and speed of a mouse for me, but it absolutely alleviates some of my wrist and finger pain associated with using a mouse.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: jamster on Mon, 05 October 2020, 21:06:41
I thought I would get used to the inaccuracy of the trackball but after a month I still keep my mouse next to it if I need to do something efficiently and quickly. I don't think a trackball can ever replace the accuracy and speed of a mouse for me, but it absolutely alleviates some of my wrist and finger pain associated with using a mouse.

I think this could be highly dependent on the hardware. When I had a CST trackball, I found that it was accurately enough to totally replace a mouse. I was used to it within a day, maybe two. I then tried an Elecom Huge and the poor bearing friction meant that it was not usable for fine control at all, even after a month.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Crabby on Wed, 21 October 2020, 20:18:40
I think the differences are overblown. I use an extremely high sensitivity on my mouse so I barely have to move it to get across the screen which means I barely move my wrist during a normal computer session. I also own a trackball, a ceramic modded trackball explorer which honestly hurts my hand more than my mouse ever does because of the un-natural shape my hand goes into to use it.

Personally if I were to really get into trackballs again I'd want a sideways one with a more ergonomic shape. I'm not sure why companies insist on making a trackball mouse shaped when it doesn't even need to move.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Shapey Fiend on Sat, 31 October 2020, 10:10:23
Sorry to rez yet another time but I started pilates a week ago (following along on Youtube) and it's sorted by back and shoulder issues out spectacularly quickly. I was already swimming every day but it wasn't having anything like this effect. 1000% recommend it I haven't been pain free in a year and this had it mostly sorted by the third half hour class.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: katsuking84 on Tue, 09 February 2021, 13:18:37
I keep both on my desk currently using an older wireless Logitech M570 and a Corsair M65. I find they both have their place if I am doing a lot of data entry I will use the trackball I can move through things quicker, however, if I am pretty much doing anything else its the mouse. Oh, and I am for sure a thumb trackball user I have tried the others and just not a fan. 
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Kyle_Kun on Tue, 09 February 2021, 15:57:51
I've never tried a trackball, but I likely won't as I play quite a bit of FPS games.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: csmertx on Wed, 10 February 2021, 11:21:19
My wrists were weaken from skateboarding (learning to fall properly is important), so I tend to prefer ambidextrous fingertip trackballs when I'm not playing FPS games.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: trace. on Tue, 16 February 2021, 10:14:50
Good luck playing games that require pixel perfect cursor precision and a lot of very fast movement on a trackball lmao. I would like to see some good input device that has the precision required, but have yet to find anything that's not a mouse (or a drawing tablet for Osu! purposes). I mostly play games that require 2D aiming, so I just play with a relatively high DPI of 2000 on 1080p.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: csmertx on Tue, 16 February 2021, 11:21:34
Laser trackball with metal rollers (might 'jitter') or potentially a decent pixart optical (no 'jitter') with metal rollers should be precise enough.  Not a lot of choices due to the low popularity of the trackballs in the first place.  I'd imagine they're not an attractive option for pro gamers, but that should not come as a surprise to most GH forum members.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: alertArchitect on Thu, 18 February 2021, 13:53:53
Personally the main reason I use a mouse over a trackball is a mix of desk space (you need more room for a quality trackball than you do for a quality mouse, from what I've seen at least), budget (the trackballs I see tend to be more expensive than comparable mice), and accuracy for the things I do. As someone getting into video editing and 3D modelling, as well as actively enjoying many games that require precision in your pointing device, a trackball would just be impractical.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: noisyturtle on Sun, 21 February 2021, 02:37:10
I think the overall concept of the trackball is inherently flawed.
Standard mice can reach DPI levels of 5k without even breaking a sweat, but if you try that on a trackball it becomes a complete mess.
There's got to be another solution. One that combines both natural 3D movement and accuracy.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: csmertx on Sun, 21 February 2021, 13:06:01
I think the overall concept of the trackball is inherently flawed.
Standard mice can reach DPI levels of 5k without even breaking a sweat, but if you try that on a trackball it becomes a complete mess.
There's got to be another solution. One that combines both natural 3D movement and accuracy.

What does 'breaking a sweat' in this context even mean?
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: buryberry on Sun, 21 February 2021, 13:11:50
i used a wacom for awhile and it was nice. i have one with the wheel which i used for scrolling. putting down and picking up the pen was really annoying though
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 21 February 2021, 15:11:55
i used a wacom for awhile and it was nice. i have one with the wheel which i used for scrolling. putting down and picking up the pen was really annoying though

there are alot of alternatives now. cheaper and laminated.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: buryberry on Sun, 21 February 2021, 15:46:56
yep i know huion is popular. apparently even their cintiq alternatives are really good now, which was not the case a couple years ago. my wacom is quite old already (intuos 4), so i hope it lasts a long time still. i still have an rs232 intuos 1 :P
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: micmil on Sun, 21 February 2021, 19:36:38
Good luck playing games that require pixel perfect cursor precision and a lot of very fast movement on a trackball lmao. I would like to see some good input device that has the precision required, but have yet to find anything that's not a mouse (or a drawing tablet for Osu! purposes). I mostly play games that require 2D aiming, so I just play with a relatively high DPI of 2000 on 1080p.

I use a noisy gaming keyboard and mouse for gaming.

I use a quiet keyboard and trackball for work.

Right tool for the job and everything.

I think the overall concept of the trackball is inherently flawed.
Standard mice can reach DPI levels of 5k without even breaking a sweat, but if you try that on a trackball it becomes a complete mess.
There's got to be another solution. One that combines both natural 3D movement and accuracy.

Why would you want 5k dpi on a trackball? Are you going to be 720 noscoping your Excel spreadsheets or something?  :p
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: trace. on Mon, 22 February 2021, 10:54:45
Good luck playing games that require pixel perfect cursor precision and a lot of very fast movement on a trackball lmao. I would like to see some good input device that has the precision required, but have yet to find anything that's not a mouse (or a drawing tablet for Osu! purposes). I mostly play games that require 2D aiming, so I just play with a relatively high DPI of 2000 on 1080p.
I use a noisy gaming keyboard and mouse for gaming.

I use a quiet keyboard and trackball for work.

Right tool for the job and everything.
Yea sure, but I don't like using different peripherals for every single thing I do, so it would be nice if there were mice that could do proper ergonomics while having high precision as well.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: alertArchitect on Mon, 22 February 2021, 11:59:24
Yea sure, but I don't like using different peripherals for every single thing I do, so it would be nice if there were mice that could do proper ergonomics while having high precision as well.

To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if mic had a situation where they have their personal PC for games and leisure, and a work PC for their job. Not uncommon and would basically be one set of peripherals per PC.

But not everyone has the space for multiple PCs or multiple sets of peripherals, or the money to afford it all, or even just the feeling of not wanting to have to swap the cables every time you want to move from one thing to the next if you only have that one computer. No shame in any of that.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: micmil on Mon, 22 February 2021, 12:12:14
Yea sure, but I don't like using different peripherals for every single thing I do, so it would be nice if there were mice that could do proper ergonomics while having high precision as well.

To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if mic had a situation where they have their personal PC for games and leisure, and a work PC for their job. Not uncommon and would basically be one set of peripherals per PC.

But not everyone has the space for multiple PCs or multiple sets of peripherals, or the money to afford it all, or even just the feeling of not wanting to have to swap the cables every time you want to move from one thing to the next if you only have that one computer. No shame in any of that.

One PC. It takes all of a minute to swap out a keyboard and I don't even have to swap to the trackball, I just power it on.

Using the appropriate tool for the job saves you more time than you spend in the changeover.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: alertArchitect on Mon, 22 February 2021, 12:33:08
Yea sure, but I don't like using different peripherals for every single thing I do, so it would be nice if there were mice that could do proper ergonomics while having high precision as well.

To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if mic had a situation where they have their personal PC for games and leisure, and a work PC for their job. Not uncommon and would basically be one set of peripherals per PC.

But not everyone has the space for multiple PCs or multiple sets of peripherals, or the money to afford it all, or even just the feeling of not wanting to have to swap the cables every time you want to move from one thing to the next if you only have that one computer. No shame in any of that.

One PC. It takes all of a minute to swap out a keyboard and I don't even have to swap to the trackball, I just power it on.

Using the appropriate tool for the job saves you more time than you spend in the changeover.

Fair enough. Honestly the reason I don't have anything like that at home is because I don't have the room for it, and would have to completely re-box my primary keyboard, then pull out the one for work, then unbox it and get it set up. Which is not the easiest task with my setup, especially since I have a fairly small desk Just better to have one set of peripherals, for me, and not bother with the 10-15 minutes it would take to change everything out every single time I need / want to change those peripherals.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Coreda on Mon, 22 February 2021, 14:52:13
Edit: nvm, noticed the sub-quoted post wanted to avoid graphics tablet form factor.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: micmil on Mon, 22 February 2021, 17:50:12
Fair enough. Honestly the reason I don't have anything like that at home is because I don't have the room for it, and would have to completely re-box my primary keyboard, then pull out the one for work, then unbox it and get it set up. Which is not the easiest task with my setup, especially since I have a fairly small desk Just better to have one set of peripherals, for me, and not bother with the 10-15 minutes it would take to change everything out every single time I need / want to change those peripherals.

Yeah, if you're precious about your gear it won't really be the best option. Nothing I have is terribly valuable and I buy it all to be used anyway. I think if I had like a $300+ Topre board or something like that I'd be way too fussy to ever use it.  :))
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: noisyturtle on Mon, 22 February 2021, 19:40:28
TB's sure do remind you of your hand cleanliness and general disgusting nature of the human body. If even under my currently strict cleaning and washing regimens the ball accumulates dead skin at a rate that makes me want to go full Howard Hugues. If only just my seemingly clean hand that I spend more time keeping sterile far more than that of any other area in these times of high hand alertness can produce this level of filth in such a short time, I shudder to think what the rest of this unoptimized skin pile of filth is shedding off around me, and at what gaggingly quick pace. I'm probably sitting in absolute muck of my own making right now and now even seeing it! I make me sick.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: micmil on Mon, 22 February 2021, 20:13:33
TB's sure do remind you of your hand cleanliness and general disgusting nature of the human body. If even under my currently strict cleaning and washing regimens the ball accumulates dead skin at a rate that makes me want to go full Howard Hugues. If only just my seemingly clean hand that I spend more time keeping sterile far more than that of any other area in these times of high hand alertness can produce this level of filth in such a short time, I shudder to think what the rest of this unoptimized skin pile of filth is shedding off around me, and at what gaggingly quick pace. I'm probably sitting in absolute muck of my own making right now and now even seeing it! I make me sick.

You're just one huge sentient oil-covered skinflake.

Goodnight!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: csmertx on Mon, 22 February 2021, 22:19:01
TB's sure do remind you of your hand cleanliness and general disgusting nature of the human body. If even under my currently strict cleaning and washing regimens the ball accumulates dead skin at a rate that makes me want to go full Howard Hugues. If only just my seemingly clean hand that I spend more time keeping sterile far more than that of any other area in these times of high hand alertness can produce this level of filth in such a short time, I shudder to think what the rest of this unoptimized skin pile of filth is shedding off around me, and at what gaggingly quick pace. I'm probably sitting in absolute muck of my own making right now and now even seeing it! I make me sick.

Hold on, lemme clean the crude from the sides, top, and bottom of my Steelseries Sensei 310... And now the ball and guides for my trackball.  There.  Yep, can confirm. :blank:
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Sun, 04 April 2021, 19:32:12
Cleaning requirements of TB's is a downside for them. An alternative is the space-mouse. A lot of people would have issues with it's affordability. Outside of professional usage. I do not game whatsoever. I was always under the impression that gaming mice were simply better quality hardware. This may not be so anymore. The G502 Lightspeed May be easily bested by the MX Master 3 for coding. Just as I ultimately decided a 108 key Topre is much more suited than a fancy Korean MX. I was wondering what you folks think about the MX Master 3? For coding or office usage. Certainly not for gaming. Apparently Many coders now prefer it to the MX Ergo or anything for that matter. Pain is not an issue if the registry is manually set so that the mouse hardly moves.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: noisyturtle on Mon, 05 April 2021, 15:42:55
So after using a trackball for months now I am developing a tendon issue with my thumb from clicking with it (as opposed to my pointer & middle fingers developing issues using a standard mouse)

So clearly trackballs do cause wear and tear on the body from repetitive motion, just on a different finger.

and trackballs are still frustratingly inaccurate and slow, but my quickly becrippling phalanges need the confusion of switching to keep them from being destroyed at an even more rapid pace. I just want robot fingers already, this human design is extremely flawed.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Thu, 08 April 2021, 07:21:26
Going back to mice was worse. Trust me. You may honestly want to try only the top model Space Mouse if you got the cash to blow. I cannot vouch for it but I have heard good things from serious pro's. I mean pro's in Photo Shop ETC. The big issue I have with TB's we all agree. Cleaning and most importantly lack of accuracy. You might think accuracy only matters to gamers. Not true. It matters in a lot of apps.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: typo on Sat, 10 April 2021, 04:08:05
Edit: Unfortunately this did not work out nearly as well as I thought it was going to. Mice still reign supreme. Save for RSI,


I have been trying to perfect a trackball. So it causes minimal pain. Is easy to clean and requires infrequent cleaning. Most importantly I want it to be close to precise as the best gaming mice. I am very satisfied at this point.

First you are going to want to pick up an Elecom M-XPT1MRXBK Thumb operated Track Ball on Amazon. Only this one! It is less than $67 there. If you live anywhere near a large city it ships the same day free. It is much more money elsewhere. YMMV but I feel this causes the least pain. It is also very easy to clean compared to others. Plus it requires less cleaning intervals. It is filthy in here.

You will only want to use it wired. With a good cable, also off Amazon in the same order if need be. God ones are the best quality Anker or Xcentz. Either one for 6 feet is well under $10. This is not transmitting much data so really any cable that fits snugly in the socket is okay. That generally means with a metal connector. Given that, those are about the least expensive that I can vouch for.

On a 24 to 32 inch display set the DPI control 'up' button to the highest setting. In control panel 'classic' set the pointer speed to '6' which is no acceleration. which really only matters to FPS gamers but I generally prefer it. Then tick the radio button directly below labeled 'enhance pointer precision' Which adds right back acceleration anyway. I am assuming Windows 10 is being used. If MAC or Linux obviously different.

Now, in the modern 'app' style control panel I would suggest to set the mouse pointer speed to 12 as a starting point. If one requires much faster than this they will lose precision. You will also be required to make a number of registry changes if using Windows 10.

This is the final and most important step. The ball rides on 3 synthetic rubies. They are not a smooth ride at all. Even though this is arguably the best Thumb operated Track Ball. You need to get a can of 'WD-40 Specialist
Silicone Lubricant'. You may think that the PTFE is naturally going to be better suited to this task. It is not. This is a very inexpensive Silicone lube. About 1.5% Silicone. It will more than suffice here. I would suggest to try to get it at Walmart where it is the least expensive. If it wears off you have hundreds of applications. Take a Q-tip and twist the cotton at the end tight. Spray some of the Silicone lube on the Q-tip soaking it. Do this outdoors or over a sink. This permanently stains bad. Now use a flashlight inside the ball cavity with the ball removed find each of the 3 little rubies and move them around with the soaked q-tip.

Let it dry for 20 minutes with the ball out. Replace the ball. Move the ball around some for a few minutes. Continue using your computer if you wish. Later or the next day use your computer as you normally would. However, now notice that you can flick the ball hard and it will continuously spin around. Do not worry about cleaning the ball cavity when needed. It should not come off of the synthetic rubies. Only use a rag. Do not use soapy water ever. That will ruin the sensor anyway. This is what is known as a dry film lubricant. When it eventually does wear off you have hundreds of applications left.

The big deal here is that by doing this it just became just about as precise as the best gaming mice and fatigue free. I suggest it is placed atop a thin cloth Mousepad and a thin Beanbag type(such as Imak on amazon) wrist rest employed. However, do not rest your wrist on it. This is how you injure your tendons!  Rest your arm about 4 inches behind your wrist towards your body. The Imak is just about the right height. the full size one. The Alsop is either much too large or small.

The final step is to place your arm at an angle slanting towards the keyboard so your elbow points away from the keyboard. If possible, rest your able on a chairs armrest. Obviously this could not be done while standing.

That is it. I know this is lengthy but it has solved years of problems for me. I felt it was worth sharing perhaps it helps one other person.
       
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Leslieann on Tue, 13 April 2021, 18:41:26
First you are going to want to pick up an Elecom M-XPT1MRXBK Thumb operated Track Ball on Amazon.
There is no one size fits all.
I actually can't use those for more than 5 minutes without problems with my thumb, too many years on bicycles putting pressure into that joint.

I also can't use Shimano thumb shifters for the same reason.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: azzipa on Tue, 13 April 2021, 22:16:18
you need more room for a quality trackball than you do for a quality mouse, from what I've seen at least

maybe area of a mouse has a smaller footprint than a trackball? i have a hard time imagining how a trackball takes less room than a mouse. unless you simply don't move your mouse using 18000 dpi and minimal fingertip movement.
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Stupidface on Fri, 15 October 2021, 18:09:15

I actually can't use those for more than 5 minutes without problems with my thumb, too many years on bicycles putting pressure into that joint.

I also can't use Shimano thumb shifters for the same reason.

Can you please clarify something?

When you say, "putting pressure into that joint," was this something you were doing by using thumb shifters?  Or was this brought about by something else you were doing with your hands whilst riding?

(I ask because I spend an inordinate amount of time on a bike and you have got me wondering if I may be doing something wrong.)
Title: Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
Post by: Leslieann on Sat, 16 October 2021, 00:17:43
It was do to pulling brake levers and riding down rough trail but I firmly believe handlebar upsweep can also play a part in how much pressure that joint sees.
I've never been able to use thumbshifters enough to have caused the problem.

Extended periods on a bicycle can do all sorts to your body, regardless of your thumb. Will it hurt later, of course but then everyone hurts later in life.