Author Topic: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard  (Read 5166 times)

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Offline chuckdee

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lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« on: Thu, 16 March 2017, 09:13:10 »
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lofree-typewriter-inspired-mechanical-keyboard-design-technology

Doesn't look very practical nor comfortable.  Those keycaps also don't look like they could be replaced because of the wonky layout.




Offline merlin64

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 16 March 2017, 09:16:30 »
They were also criticized for being very aggressive on social media and spamming all their feeds.

When I first started my mechmerlin instagram, they were like literally one of my first followers.

Offline hking0036

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 16 March 2017, 09:26:06 »
I think they're just selling it on the basis of being "like a typewriter" before anything else. It's probably meant to draw in the crowd who think it's cutesy and don't already have nice keyboards, or care to look. After looking at the page it's pretty clear they're aiming at the "Mac crowd", if you know what I mean.
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 March 2017, 09:29:39 by hking0036 »
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Offline Puddsy

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 16 March 2017, 09:26:42 »
No thank u
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Offline SneakyRobb

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 16 March 2017, 13:19:15 »
Not for me but that enter key is cute AF

Offline Neo.X

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 16 March 2017, 13:23:59 »
The keyboard looks cute, that's all.
All those keyboards will be lost in time....


Offline Findecanor

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 16 March 2017, 23:26:31 »
There are a few reviews on Youtube. People seem to like the look and key feel, but the layout is really really bad.
Not just are the longer keys a bit weirdly shaped (and using two switches instead of stabilisers) but the numeric row is shifted one step to the right which is really annoying.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 16 March 2017, 23:55:10 »
the two switch thing is kind of weird instead of stabilizers..  does that cut assembly cost.. not sure..

Offline dantan

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 17 March 2017, 07:20:21 »
the two switch thing is kind of weird instead of stabilizers..  does that cut assembly cost.. not sure..

Using two switches is sure to mess up most people's touch typing. Even if they used lighter switches the feeling won't be the same.

But oh well they got lots of money. So it is a success already.

Offline chyros

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 17 March 2017, 07:27:52 »
I don't see how this is like a typewriter at all.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline hking0036

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 17 March 2017, 09:34:42 »
I don't see how this is like a typewriter at all.
I saw a picture of one once and the keys were circles so it must be similar 
Only nerds care about the insides :rolleyes:

One of these form over function keyboard crowdfunding things happens every day, this one just managed to find an audience.

See also:
Keyboard with mass storage: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/silentkeys-a-keyboard-for-your-privacy-security-internet
Keyboard with aluminum chiclet keycaps: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/demon-art-metal-plus-aluminu-alloy-metal-keyboard
Reselling gh60 Chinese boards: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/programmable-mechanical-keyboard#/
Emoji keyboard: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/diskcactus/the-emoji-keyboard-type-emoji-on-your-mac?ref=discovery
Multi-touch keyboard: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1116966310/multi-touch-keyboard-and-mouse?ref=discovery
« Last Edit: Tue, 21 March 2017, 06:26:35 by hking0036 »
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Offline VGVisionary

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 17:17:26 »
My search results on the forum didn't show this thread when I looked for more feedback on this Keyboard. Thanks for being so vocal everyone! The form factor got me excited but it doesn't look like there's any room left for customization in the lofree at all.

Offline chuckdee

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 18:32:44 »
The keyboard looks cute, that's all.

Figure they're going for a certain group of people that like nice looking overpriced tech devices.  :))

Offline Findecanor

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 22:00:29 »
I find that it is mostly the case that reminds me of "space age"-design typewriters with plastic enclosures, especially the first IBM Selectric - which had rectangular keys BTW.

No typewriter had keys that were ridiculous such as these double-circle keys. Keys were either circular (or rounded trapezoid-like..) and spanned one key-position, or they were rectangular when spanning more than one unit.
All mechanical typewriters had standard QWERTY staggering while this one has a uniform 1/2 key staggering.
I have seen uniform 1/2 key staggering only on computer keyboards.

Offline dantan

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 22:13:47 »
Very interesting. The multi touch keyboard netted $151k. After which, the poster Jason whatever became (deleted). I wonder if this is a scam and the real scammer was using someone else's name.

Crowdfunding is becoming a giant scam, with the scammers, incompetents and nutjobs crowding out legit projects.

I don't see how this is like a typewriter at all.
I saw a picture of one once and the keys were circles so it must be similar 
Only nerds care about the insides :rolleyes:

One of these form over function keyboard crowdfunding things happens every day, this one just managed to find an audience.

See also:
Keyboard with mass storage: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects
Keyboard with aluminum chiclet keycaps: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/demon-art-metal-plus-aluminu-alloy-metal-keyboard
Reselling gh60 Chinese boards: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/programmable-mechanical-keyboard#/
Emoji keboard: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/diskcactus/the-emoji-keyboard-type-emoji-on-your-mac?ref=discovery
Multi-touch keyboard: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1116966310/multi-touch-keyboard-and-mouse?ref=discovery

Offline chuckdee

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 22:30:51 »
Very interesting. The multi touch keyboard netted $151k. After which, the poster Jason whatever became (deleted). I wonder if this is a scam and the real scammer was using someone else's name.

Crowdfunding is becoming a giant scam, with the scammers, incompetents and nutjobs crowding out legit projects.


Good place to look to see if it went bad or not is always the comments: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1116966310/multi-touch-keyboard-and-mouse/comments

Apparently it went bad.  But I think crowdfunding is a lot like any other investment - you have to do your due diligence.  But people get caught up in the glitz and the excitement of the campaign, and don't do that.  There were a few red flags which would have caused me not to back it, just looking at the project.

It's a shame, really.  Crowdfunding is an exciting venue, but it's getting smeared by many factors.

Offline dantan

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 20 March 2017, 23:17:41 »
Don't mind me asking, what are the red flags?

Basically I don't know how to do due dilligence on stuff like this. Anybody can cook up a fake profile. Anyone can get an electrical engineering or related degree from a degree mill. Anyone can become CEO of his own company for just a few hundred bucks to register your company and a mailbox. Even if this guy has an active facebook profile and lots of friends, there are lots of people who would be happy to get a bad rep in exchange for a few hundred thousand bucks in quick hard cash.

what I don't understand is, if you paid via paypal, surely you could get money back? And surely paypal could ban this guy permanently as a scammer? Yet the comments show him starting up another dubious project. Stop his money collection and there will be no more scams.

Very interesting. The multi touch keyboard netted $151k. After which, the poster Jason whatever became (deleted). I wonder if this is a scam and the real scammer was using someone else's name.

Crowdfunding is becoming a giant scam, with the scammers, incompetents and nutjobs crowding out legit projects.


Good place to look to see if it went bad or not is always the comments: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1116966310/multi-touch-keyboard-and-mouse/comments

Apparently it went bad.  But I think crowdfunding is a lot like any other investment - you have to do your due diligence.  But people get caught up in the glitz and the excitement of the campaign, and don't do that.  There were a few red flags which would have caused me not to back it, just looking at the project.

It's a shame, really.  Crowdfunding is an exciting venue, but it's getting smeared by many factors.

Offline LazyDog

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 21 March 2017, 00:44:01 »
Dantan, in the case of that Kickstarter, the biggest red flag, common to a lot of wonder-doohicky crowdfunding campaigns, is that he's promising a stylish, high-quality, nearly first-of-its-kind product for a suspiciously low price ($150 for keyboard and mouse?? With tempered glass affixed to a metal base?), and all he has to show for it is a 3D rendering.

Some other snake-oily things: 1) He confidently describes the product in the present tense, even though he hasn't made so much as a prototype or even blueprints. 2) He flashes a whole bunch of low-resolution still images of random products and product mockups while talking about his experience designing products, without explaining what exactly he's designed or what these are pictures of. 3) He repeatedly says "we," but he's the only person in the video. Does he actually have employees or business partners? 4) The video is very low budget, poor lighting and sound quality, nothing that couldn't be easily done by someone with pirated video editing software and a green sheet to stand in front of. 5) Talking about the wonder-tech that the product uses: "If I were you I would be wondering if this is some obscure technology that has not been proven or needs to be developed. This is not the case. The method is so simple, I am surprised it has not been done already!" He's speaking in the same but-wait-there's-more tone of an infomercial or a used car salesman, mirroring the reader's inevitable incredulity with smarmy enthusiasm. If he's admitting that his own tech sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
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Offline dantan

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 21 March 2017, 01:20:18 »
Great response LazyDog:

But lets consider this:
1) nowadays you can get all kinds of awesome things for cheap from China. You've got brand new backlit outemu switch mechanical keyboards going for crazy prices like $25.
I honestly don't know how much tempered glass on steel costs, but it might not be high. And the danger would be that a genuine engineer could stick a comment saying, yeah, it could be theoretically done at that price point, and his endorsement would be very misleading unintentionally

2) This guy did his video alone on a budget, so it's a lot easier to see that he's a scammer. But if he had loaned his friend's fancy office, spent money on a better camera, hired a few South Asians and Middle Easterners to lounge around with free pizza and pepsi looking exactly like engineers, he would look a lot more legit.

3) And nowadays you can get people on fiverr to draw up CAD drawings and mockups for a few hundred bucks. These could be genuine schematics that would work.

4) There's lots of people on geekhack who post their costs and projects nowadays. A dedicated scammer could probably argue that a glass-metal case costs $20 when MOQ is over 1000, a PCB $3, his total costs are $75, so it's a highly profitable project for him and he wants to keep it going for years so he won't screw anyone, etc.

I'm saying that if he had invested $2k and some research time, his scam would look damn pro. It could easily net $1.51m instead of $151k because the snake oil came across as high grade virgin olive oil.

One of the most important protections, is what credit card companies and paypal offer. You can't just collect hundreds of thousands on a paypal account without them investigating. You can't set up a company account with any credit card company without submitting incorporation documents, and they won't deal with anyone who has a record of setting up dummy companies that collapse after a few months. So the big guys are really needed to do their job well. Us little folks, we can only avoid the more obvious cons.

Dantan, in the case of that Kickstarter, the biggest red flag, common to a lot of wonder-doohicky crowdfunding campaigns, is that he's promising a stylish, high-quality, nearly first-of-its-kind product for a suspiciously low price ($150 for keyboard and mouse?? With tempered glass affixed to a metal base?), and all he has to show for it is a 3D rendering.

Some other snake-oily things: 1) He confidently describes the product in the present tense, even though he hasn't made so much as a prototype or even blueprints. 2) He flashes a whole bunch of low-resolution still images of random products and product mockups while talking about his experience designing products, without explaining what exactly he's designed or what these are pictures of. 3) He repeatedly says "we," but he's the only person in the video. Does he actually have employees or business partners? 4) The video is very low budget, poor lighting and sound quality, nothing that couldn't be easily done by someone with pirated video editing software and a green sheet to stand in front of. 5) Talking about the wonder-tech that the product uses: "If I were you I would be wondering if this is some obscure technology that has not been proven or needs to be developed. This is not the case. The method is so simple, I am surprised it has not been done already!" He's speaking in the same but-wait-there's-more tone of an infomercial or a used car salesman, mirroring the reader's inevitable incredulity with smarmy enthusiasm. If he's admitting that his own tech sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Offline 1391406

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 21 March 2017, 08:33:12 »
It's a cute keyboard, but the layout would do me in.
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Offline chuckdee

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 21 March 2017, 09:17:07 »
Don't mind me asking, what are the red flags?

Basically I don't know how to do due dilligence on stuff like this. Anybody can cook up a fake profile. Anyone can get an electrical engineering or related degree from a degree mill. Anyone can become CEO of his own company for just a few hundred bucks to register your company and a mailbox. Even if this guy has an active facebook profile and lots of friends, there are lots of people who would be happy to get a bad rep in exchange for a few hundred thousand bucks in quick hard cash.

what I don't understand is, if you paid via paypal, surely you could get money back? And surely paypal could ban this guy permanently as a scammer? Yet the comments show him starting up another dubious project. Stop his money collection and there will be no more scams.

Great question, and great answers above.  No amount of due diligence will completely remove risk, I just want to say that first.  But, for me, I go through a few points.

1. Identity.  Are the facebook, instagram, ect linked?  What is the age of these?  How many friends do they have?  What activity did they have before the campaign?  Speaks to preparation for the project, and thoroughness.  Does the project have a dedicated website?  You can find out a lot backtracking that, including the level of preparation.  If they don't, it's not an immediate red flag, but with them being so easy to set up if you're going to prepare a project, that's a sign.  Is this a person that you're putting your money and trust in?  Or a company?  That's a good consideration also, as single person projects have a single point of failure.
2. Prior Projects.  How many projects have they created? (first project is not necessarily a red flag, but is a cause for concern).  How did those other projects proceed and complete?  Look at the comments sections- they can't hide that.  You have to look between true problems and disgruntled (for one reason or another) backers.  Are there are lot of cancelled projects?  Some people throw projects at the wall to see what sticks, and I don't back that.  In my opinion this shows their understanding of Kickstarter as a community- you do things differently here (communication especially) than in other markets, so knowledge of how this is done and what to do when things go bad is key.
3. Copyediting and Layout.  Is the project clear and well designed?  Are their grammatical errors or spelling errors?  How bad are they?  Speaks to preparation for the project, and thoroughness.
4. Community.  How many other projects have been backed?  This isn't a red flag for some, and is harder to accurately gauge in some cases, as people use personal and professional accounts now.  But I use it to gauge that important bit about how well they understand kickstarter, the things that might go wrong, how to (and not to) communicate with backers when things go wrong, and things like that.
5. Video.  This is a bit more ephemeral to me.  If you have one, it should be well done.  I'd prefer no video on some projects to a hastily done, badly shot one (books, especially).  Many disagree on this point, so this is rather personal.  They say you need one, and need to spend significant effort on it.
6. Product. Are the rewards well described?  Do you understand what you're getting?  How many non-essentials are being offered (t-shirts if not a t-shirt kickstarter for example).  I've seen projects fail for this point.  Is the product well represented and prototyped or have a demo or sample?  Again, not a red flag, but it does raise concerns.
7. Stretch Goals.  There are several different opinions on Stretch Goals, but my personal estimation on this is that if Stretch Goals are being added as you go along and have not been costed based on possible project numbers already, they're a point of contention.  Stretch Goals can kill a project in post implementation.  This is not something I check once... I look as it's going along.  If it gets out of control, I'll pull out.
8. Scheduling and Risks.  Are the risks adequately brought forward, explained, and accounted for?  For example, if this is a manufactured project, and the kickstarter is in November, and delivery is in June, and no mention is made of CNY, it's a flag for me.  What kind of preparation has already been done, especially for a manufacturing project, though this applies to all non-creative projects for me (and many creative projects).
9. Communication.  How are they communicating during the project?  If you have few backer updates as you go along, don't expect it to get better post project.

I'm sure there are a lot of other things that people use, and there are more that I use that aren't as easily specified and personal, which points to the fact that even above, all of this is from my experience.  Just take a look at it, temper your excitement for the project, use the tools that are out there (don't immediately back, for instance, but flag it to take a look later), be willing to pull out if you see anything dodgy.
« Last Edit: Tue, 21 March 2017, 09:20:04 by chuckdee »

Offline dantan

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 21 March 2017, 23:55:33 »
This (Chuckdee's above) post is good enough to make into a sticky!

Offline chuckdee

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 06:20:52 »
This (Chuckdee's above) post is good enough to make into a sticky!

Thanks!  I just hope it helps!  I really love the idea of Kickstarter (to the tune of 538 backed projects and counting) and I consider few of my backed projects true failures.  Some are still in flight when they shouldn't be, and others, what I got wasn't what I thought I was going to get (just got this wi-reboot project that tunes into the network, and when it can't connect, reboots the router automatically.  Too sensitive, and in the end that made it too much hassle).  But I've gotten some really cool things that I don't think would have made it to market also, and met cool people, and have been able to contribute in some small way to getting people's dreams off the ground, and that's satisfying to me.

Back on the lofree, found this thread on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/60szp8/el_retron_penna_a_retro_inspired_wireless_mkb/
https://www.elretron.com/

Supposed to be kickstarter kicking off soon.

Looks a lot better than the lofree, though there are tickles of problems.  When it kicks off, I'll probably try to make a dedicated thread and give my thoughts.


Offline Data

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 07:41:55 »
This (Chuckdee's above) post is good enough to make into a sticky!

Thanks!  I just hope it helps!  I really love the idea of Kickstarter (to the tune of 538 backed projects and counting) and I consider few of my backed projects true failures.  Some are still in flight when they shouldn't be, and others, what I got wasn't what I thought I was going to get (just got this wi-reboot project that tunes into the network, and when it can't connect, reboots the router automatically.  Too sensitive, and in the end that made it too much hassle).  But I've gotten some really cool things that I don't think would have made it to market also, and met cool people, and have been able to contribute in some small way to getting people's dreams off the ground, and that's satisfying to me.

Back on the lofree, found this thread on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/60szp8/el_retron_penna_a_retro_inspired_wireless_mkb/
https://www.elretron.com/

Supposed to be kickstarter kicking off soon.

Looks a lot better than the lofree, though there are tickles of problems.  When it kicks off, I'll probably try to make a dedicated thread and give my thoughts.

El Retron?

Is... Is that Spanish for "the retro"??    :))

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 08:08:45 »
I've seen this same keyboard for sale on Massdrop, eBay, and AliExpress.   So why the heck is it being sold through crowdfunding? 
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline bmmcwhirt

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Re: lofree: typewriter inspired mechanical keyboard
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 22 March 2017, 09:31:30 »