[GB] Phantom Parts and Assembly Services (Update Posted 2018/07/23)

[metalliqaz]

So how are we doing with those stabilizers?

[7bit]

Last bag of switches has been sent last week. But white are still missing.

Sorry, the thing with the whites was my fault because I thought I had more. They are on preorder and should be delivered by the end of July.

[mashby]

Last bag of switches has been sent last week. But white are still missing.

Sorry, the thing with the whites was my fault because I thought I had more. They are on preorder and should be delivered by the end of July.

Thank you for the update 7bit!

[KuhnTang]

notice all prof's update is a pic.  Yep, we already knew you had them, not from you, but from 7-bit.  So now, we get a photo, great. 

When are you shipping them?

I'm going to file a dispute tomorrow if you don't prove to me that you sent my parts or give me a refund.

I recommend the rest of you do the same.

[SmallFry]

You can't file a dispute anymore due to the time after sending the payment, I thought.

[metalliqaz]

Profosist, please end our suffering and yours and turn this GB over to someone else.

[SpAmRaY]

You can't file a dispute anymore due to the time after sending the payment, I thought.

45 days from payment

[The_Beast]

Profosist, please end our suffering and yours and turn this GB over to someone else.

I'd be willing to solder Phantoms, but all parts must be provided by the customer and I'd only be willing to take them if I know I can solder and ship within a reasonable amount of time.

[SmallFry]

Same here Beast. I can solder some also, when needed.

[Germiphene]

I... just... wanted.... parts.  OMG, this is a mess.

[nubbinator]

I can solder switches as well.  I'm not even a part of this and this whole thread and frustration of everyone involved and total disregard for people who have paid for a service is ticking me off.

[TheProfosist]

just thought id say assembly is not a problem on my end what so ever, so people offering to build them does nothing to speed this up.

[tjcaustin]

just thought id say assembly is not a problem on my end what so ever, so people offering to build them does nothing to speed this up.

How about them offering to come and ship the **** you need to send out?

[SmallFry]

I may be speaking outside my bounds, but perhaps you should turn the GB over to WFD. I can come pickup the materials after next week.

[TheProfosist]

just thought id say assembly is not a problem on my end what so ever, so people offering to build them does nothing to speed this up.

How about them offering to come and ship the **** you need to send out?

I can start shipping stuff out to people who just ordered switches using the switches I do have.

[TheProfosist]

just thought id say assembly is not a problem on my end what so ever, so people offering to build them does nothing to speed this up.

How about them offering to come and ship the **** you need to send out?

I can start shipping stuff out to people who just ordered switches using the switches I do have.

I know this doesnt satisfy everyone but its a start?

[okooko]

just thought id say assembly is not a problem on my end what so ever, so people offering to build them does nothing to speed this up.

How about them offering to come and ship the **** you need to send out?

I can start shipping stuff out to people who just ordered switches using the switches I do have.

I know this doesnt satisfy everyone but its a start?

please start doing this and informing the buyers in this thread regarding whos switches have arrived, have been sent to their destination and/or where the switches going to.

As for mine 100 clear to alaricjls please.

[Paranoid]

Hi prof,

I left you a PM regarding a refund seeing as I won't need the leds and stabilizers anymore. Could you get back to me? Cheers!

[pasph]

just thought id say assembly is not a problem on my end what so ever, so people offering to build them does nothing to speed this up.

How about them offering to come and ship the **** you need to send out?

I can start shipping stuff out to people who just ordered switches using the switches I do have.

You "can"?
You MUST do it NOW and refund what you can't deliver
If you don't have stabilizers you must refund them
Or this GB is just a scam

[zyth3x]

just thought id say assembly is not a problem on my end what so ever, so people offering to build them does nothing to speed this up.

How about them offering to come and ship the **** you need to send out?

I can start shipping stuff out to people who just ordered switches using the switches I do have.

Please do, I ordered clear switches only.

[KuhnTang]

Prof,

You're unable to provide stab's, ship my my goods and refund me for stabs. 

I really hate this GB.  I'm sure you do as well.  Your reputation has been severely tarnished.  Ship everything and I'm sure everyone will forget over time.


Ship me my freaking stuff already.  I really regret ordering stab's.  refund me

[metalliqaz]

As for mine 100 clear to alaricjls please.

If this is a modification to an order, this isn't the way to do it.  Direct communication is best.  Also, it's best not to complicate things this late in the game. It's very, very hard to keep up with that stuff.

[metalliqaz]

You "can"?
You MUST do it NOW and refund what you can't deliver
If you don't have stabilizers you must refund them
Or this GB is just a scam

He MUST do it NOW?  This is unreasonable.  What we need is communication and ETAs.  A GB doesn't become a scam at the snap of a finger.

[metalliqaz]

I can start shipping stuff out to people who just ordered switches using the switches I do have.

This is very promising.  As for the overall GB, it seems we are very close, except for (1) white switches and (2) cherry stabilizers.  As for (1), it seems 7bit will ship when he can.  For (2) I wish we could get these ordered so everyone can move on.

It has been several weeks since I saw the plates come in and many more weeks since I saw PCBs.  I'm not sure why I don't have those yet but until those come in, technically this GB is still on track.  However, I have lost confidence that my money is safe.  This has less to do with timing and more to do with attitudes.

What we need is to know when the remaining parts will be ordered, and then shipped.

[nebo]

You "can"?
You MUST do it NOW and refund what you can't deliver
If you don't have stabilizers you must refund them
Or this GB is just a scam

He MUST do it NOW?  This is unreasonable.  What we need is communication and ETAs.  A GB doesn't become a scam at the snap of a finger.

Really more people need to realize this. Here is a post over on DT that I think encapsulates this pretty well (though a very different situation)
http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760-1380.html


Also, you want out? You need someone to buy your spot. That is how a GB works, this is not a store.

I guess a real problem with the commercialization of group buys is that some people don't understand what a groupbuy is and how it works any more. With 7bit's group buy, I have problems understanding them myself.

You can see that from some reactions to 7bit's thread over there, saying this is private between 7bit and Kayliss and whatnot. You can also see it from some of the reactions in lysols GMK groupbuy thread on GH. And you can see it from the thread about the clear MX switches "GB" by pexon.

Some people seem to think that with groupbuy organizers making a profit, they can/should be treated like professional sellers.

On the other hand -- if you look at how some of today's group buys work, and 7bit's switch GBs (not round 4!) are a good example: from a normal member's viewpoint they are really hard to discern from a professional shop. There seems to be a stock of readily available switches, there's a professional ordering system, there's no transparency at all about the dealing of 7bit with his suppliers -- hell you don't even know who the suppliers are. You basically are told you enter a group buy without knowing where the organizer buys the merchandise, what prices he gets at what number of orders, at what point in time he has to pay for it, etc.. Only thing you get to know are preorder prices that the GB organizer seems to be able to prolong or deny more or less at will. This does look like a shop, not like gb any more to newer people. IMO there's a lack of transparency that can lead to the notion that these are professional undertakings.

With round 4 it was different in that there was a clear goal and a clear order to SP at some point in time, and people more or less knew what was going on. It was like you'd expect a group buy to be.

But even there, I for one never understood some aspects. in this case especially the whole handling of leftovers. I came to deskthority when the ordering phase of round 4 was already over, and there was a huge list of so-called leftovers in 7bit's system at that time. Where did the "stock" numbers come from, how were they even determined? Next, that "leftover" list diminished over time to almost nothing. Yet after the sorting phase, there suddenly were these 10.000 random keycaps that went into dummy sets. I mean, that's 1/4 of the volume of the whole GB! Why were these even made, and why weren't they in the leftover lists? And even after the dummy kits, 7bit seems to have enough leftover stuff to handle sorting errors and the like.

This is just an example, I'm sure 7bit has put a lot of thought into group buys and how to handle them that I just don't understand, and it might have been explained at some time in the 4000-posts thread of that GB during the last 2 years, but still -- to me these group buys need more transparency.

I don't want to excuse Kayliss's action, but I'm almost sure he didn't know what he was doing at all (and did't think a lot or ask a lot either of course). From the perspective of someone new to this, it's kind of hard to understand how this works and how a Paypal dispute can delay a whole GB.

All I want to say: there needs to be more explaining going on in the GBs, so people can build trust and discern them from all the commecial stuff that's going on GH. I mean look at pexon ... he clearly isn't interested in switches himself at all, he's a pro and he does this for profit, not even minding another GB on MX clears already going on. And from his reaction I'd even say he sees 7bit as just some other pro who competes against him.

[metafour]

This thread has so much fail in it it's depressing. =\

[mashby]

Really more people need to realize this. Here is a post over on DT that I think encapsulates this pretty well (though a very different situation)
http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760-1380.html


Also, you want out? You need someone to buy your spot. That is how a GB works, this is not a store.

Good points Nebo. I agree group buys behave completely differently from a commercial endeavor and Halvar's post that you reference is good at pointing out the differences. However, there are some differences here with this group buy that I find alarming.

1. WFD sourced and paid for parts out of his own pocket for TheProfosist and has yet to be reimbursed. These parts were paid in advance by participants in this GB, so why hasn't WFD been paid?

2. This GB is different from a key cap, or switch buy in that services were offered in addition to goods. 22 of the 60 orders that were placed included assembly services. I had requested that WFD do my assembly, but if he hasn't been paid for goods, what assurance do we have that assemblers will be compensated for their work?

3. This isn't an isolated issue. TheProfosist's behavior in this assembly service and his ErgoDox assembly group buy seems to indicates that this is a pattern.

[mashby]

I know this doesnt satisfy everyone but its a start?

It's too late for a "start". You pissed away everyone's confidence in you that you could successfully organize this group buy. Instead of behaving in a responsible manner, you seem hell bent on being a smart ass and provide tiny bits of information and rarely answer a question directly.   I don't know what drama is happening behind-the-scenes that is causing you to behave in this manner, nor do I care anymore.

22 people chose to trust you and pay you in advance for work that you offered to perform. Based on your actions, or lack there of, that trust has been breached and it's clear that many people want out of this group buy, myself included. Since you rarely respond to my PM's, I will post what I sent you yesterday.

TheProfosist,

Based on your performance in this group buy and others you have started, I no longer wish to be involved in your Phantom Assembly service GB. I will be contracting with WFD for the assembly of my Phantom.

Since money is apparently an issue for you, I am not asking for a refund at this time because I don't believe that it will be forthcoming.  I don't wish to pay again for assembly services, but I don't wish to delay this process any more than it already has.

My only requirement is that you mail the White PLU-87 with Cherry MX-Red switches that you claim to have received to WhiteFireDragon and provide me with the tracking number.

Please respond in a timely fashion that you have received this PM and that you will, or will not comply.

[nebo]

I'm not defending him anymore, it is kind of weird that he is avoiding saying anything. Really, "nothing new to report" says a lot more than "...". Lets the buyers know it is still actively in the works.

Also, this GB was set up a bit different than most, and if people (which seem like a lot in this thread) didn't realize how everything was being bought that is their fault. Not saying it is the best, not saying what is going on with WFD is right, but everyone knew what they were doing. You sent money to a guy you've never met on the internet with hopes that it wasn't going to be for nothing. Obviously if that happens it's horrible and TP would be shunned forever, but it was what we did and do for all GBs.

[Turkishrambo]

Just putting it out there, i can do assembly for people within ontario if you need. Just shoot me a PM.

[metafour]

3. This isn't an isolated issue. TheProfosist's behavior in this assembly service and his ErgoDox assembly group buy seems to indicates that this is a pattern.

He once had a subforum too. Things were pretty similar to this.

[pasph]

1) he has the switches in his hands
2) he don't deliver
3) he don't give us any ETA
4) he just SAID that POSSIBLY he can deliver
This after how many weeks?
How do you call that?

[Rendom]

Send my 90 clear switches to Alaric  like I told you to after I made the payment. Go go go

[pasph]

Also, you want out? You need someone to buy your spot. That is how a GB works, this is not a store.

I don't want out, i repeated it many times:
I want my switches that he has in his hands

So difficult to understand?

[nebo]

Also, you want out? You need someone to buy your spot. That is how a GB works, this is not a store.

I don't want out, i repeated it many times:
I want my switches that he has in his hands

So difficult to understand?

That wasn't to you directly, that was to everyone else ITT who was backing out.


For your switches, I think everyone gets what you want. Contacting TP is how you should go about this, not posting twice a day here. Yeah, he doesn't exactly respond, but the issue is with you and TP and as such we don't need those posts here.

[pasph]

So it's my problem and my personal issue with him?
Really funny

[metalliqaz]

For your switches, I think everyone gets what you want. Contacting TP is how you should go about this, not posting twice a day here. Yeah, he doesn't exactly respond, but the issue is with you and TP and as such we don't need those posts here.

This is an issue with everyone in this GB.

I have my own suspicions about what is going on behind the scenes.  I'll just say that I've seen the behavior pattern before.  My goal now is to try and keep this thing moving forward so it doesn't implode.  We all know that if it does, most of us will lose our money.

[metafour]

Your characterization of this as a group buy and not a store is pretty generous.

[metalliqaz]

Your characterization of this as a group buy and not a store is pretty generous.

You're probably right.

[nebo]

So it's my problem and my personal issue with him?
Really funny

No, it's everyone's problem because we all want what we ordered but it is your personal issue.

Imagine a preorder for a console (for example) where a store says the will have 100 units and they give out vouchers to 100 people. If something happens and there are only 99 consoles, does the 1 person who missed out start yelling in the store and making a scene or does that person go to the person who promised them (with the voucher) that console? Right now, what you're doing is the equivalent of being that one person shouting to a bunch of people who have no way to help you.

For your switches, I think everyone gets what you want. Contacting TP is how you should go about this, not posting twice a day here. Yeah, he doesn't exactly respond, but the issue is with you and TP and as such we don't need those posts here.

This is an issue with everyone in this GB.


I have my own suspicions about what is going on behind the scenes.  I'll just say that I've seen the behavior pattern before.  My goal now is to try and keep this thing moving forward so it doesn't implode.  We all know that if it does, most of us will lose our money.

I think I explained my reasoning above. I know it's everyone on the line here, but there are times to start shouting and, while we are getting close to that, we are not there yet IMO.

[metafour]

Oh so 99 out of 100 people got their stuff from TP already? That's good to hear.

[kmiller8]

My goal now is to try and keep this thing moving forward so it doesn't implode.

metalliqaz, the hero we deserve, but not the one we need.

[elton5354]

that metafour was not so good ...lol

[nebo]

Oh so 99 out of 100 people got their stuff from TP already? That's good to hear.

That's not what I was saying, though most people including yourself have not been scammed yet. He has the goods in your case so that problem is he is being an ass about the situation.

that metafour was not so good ...lol

It's 1:30PM and I'm still hungover. TT

[metafour]

I would say people have been scammed out of their time and are suffering from an increased level of stress due to how this is being handled. I don't think we have to define scamming as solely loss of money and goods.

[kmiller8]

I would say people have been scammed out of their time and are suffering from an increased level of stress due to how this is being handled. I don't think we have to define scamming as solely loss of money and goods.

lol. we've been hogwashed!

[nebo]

I would say people have been scammed out of their time and are suffering from an increased level of stress due to how this is being handled. I don't think we have to define scamming as solely loss of money and goods.

Won't argue that, though it is worth noting that there are people who ordered PCBs and plates directly that still don't have them. Switches though (not what) should be out. That I do not understand. Why post the picture if you're not going to have them sorted/shipped within a few days?

[KuhnTang]

This is all pretty funny.

No matter what you say about the difference between a GB and a purchase from a store, this GB has gone to complete shi*.  Why did it go to complete shi*, easy, the profist.  I don't think anyone can argue that.  So why even try to debate the differences between a GB and a store, when even for a GB, this is utter Shi*.

[metafour]

Won't argue that, though it is worth noting that there are people who ordered PCBs and plates directly that still don't have them. Switches though (not what) should be out. That I do not understand. Why post the picture if you're not going to have them sorted/shipped within a few days?

It's the weekend man! Time for sex, drugs and rock and roll! And a little bit of hogwashing I guess.

[7bit]

Please don't jump all off this group buy!

Even if he refunds you the money for the switches, you won't be able to get them anytime soon. I'm blocked by Round 4 and sold out at the moment. GH60 switches (NW-only anyway while Phantom needs NN) will take quite some while to be delivered and it is unclear when pexon gets close enough to 4000 to be able to order clears.

On the other hand, TheProfosist has them all there (except the whites which I can also ship directly when they arrived), so I'm quite sure he will still beat out anybody else in terms of delivery time and maybe even in price, as Cherry raised their prices quite a bit.

:-)