Author Topic: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)  (Read 61598 times)

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Offline GigaFlop

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Re: [IC] Irma (Black WK case w/ brass weight pics added)
« Reply #100 on: Sat, 23 March 2019, 14:24:39 »
I'm not a fan of TKL boards, but I like the idea behind this. I'll follow to see about a potential 60% or 65% case in the future.
Oh god why did my wallet get so thin

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Black WK case w/ brass weight pics added)
« Reply #101 on: Sat, 23 March 2019, 14:40:19 »
Tolerances are the issue. If it doesn't work out for a plate or because of the blockers on the TKL face, then 100% I'm doing a 60% case. I don't like tray mount, though.
If tolerances work out, then I'm still 100% doing a 60/65% case.

Offline TuCZnak

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Re: [IC] Irma (Black WK case w/ brass weight pics added)
« Reply #102 on: Sat, 23 March 2019, 15:08:43 »
A poll would be good. I want to provide all the options, but yeah...$. I'll try to put one at the top like the Primus thread.
Edit...uh, not sure how to add the poll. Any help?
There should be an "Add poll" button on the bottom of the page (next to Reply etc.)

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #103 on: Sun, 24 March 2019, 23:45:20 »
Added a google survey form instead on OP

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #104 on: Mon, 25 March 2019, 00:10:27 »
Added a google survey form instead on OP

filled it, thanks man
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



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Offline Findecanor

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #105 on: Mon, 25 March 2019, 00:32:01 »
The name of the material is UHMWPE, not UHMW.
UHMW is the prefix which describes its characteristics, like LD, HD or Hi.
BTW, I effing hate polyethylene. Slick, and difficult to work with.
Wouldn't this be a slippery keyboard with frayed edges?

Honestly, carbon fiber itself is CHEAP. Even in the US. It's the labor that companies charge insane prices for in the US, so basically **** those guys.

I bought the carbon fiber and epoxy online for $35, and I had a bunch left over afterward. I still have it.
The labour cost is not insane. There is a lot of labour.
Also, professional carbon fibre pieces are made with a stronger resin, and cured in an autoclave: under heat and low pressure — not just laid down with laminating epoxy (for fibreglass).
🍉

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #106 on: Mon, 25 March 2019, 01:31:19 »
The name of the material is UHMWPE, not UHMW.
UHMW is the prefix which describes its characteristics, like LD, HD or Hi.
BTW, I effing hate polyethylene. Slick, and difficult to work with.
Wouldn't this be a slippery keyboard with frayed edges?

Honestly, carbon fiber itself is CHEAP. Even in the US. It's the labor that companies charge insane prices for in the US, so basically **** those guys.

I bought the carbon fiber and epoxy online for $35, and I had a bunch left over afterward. I still have it.
The labour cost is not insane. There is a lot of labour.
Also, professional carbon fibre pieces are made with a stronger resin, and cured in an autoclave: under heat and low pressure — not just laid down with laminating epoxy (for fibreglass).
Polyethylene is classified by density and branching. There is nothing else I know of that commonly uses "UHMW" as its prefix, so if you say "UHMW," everyone knows you're referring to UHMWPE.
My friends and I dealt with "UHMWPE" a lot when longboarding and for motorcycling.
It does not have to always be slick, although it has a very low coefficient of friction, nor frayed, although it does fray when machined. It can be finished, though, to be either smooth, textured, or even satin-like.
I think it's abrasion resistance and sound profile will be worth the nightmare of machining it.

For carbon fiber: I know there is work involved, and experience needed. But the prices are inflated here in the US. Like I said, I've worked with it myself. I know what's involved. Keyboard plates aren't like automotive parts or race bicycles. Yes, they really do just need to be laid with resin (in my case, I used EPOXY RESIN) and cured under the correct temperature with light pressure. That is easily done in my garage or kitchen. Vacuum bagging is cheap. Inside out electrical tape is cheap. Ordering from 159 | projectkeyboard is cheap. So I stand by my statement that US labor costs for anything involving carbon fiber are unjustified. I've also been to Calfee design and seen what they do. It's not rocket science or hard labour.

But honestly, carbon fiber is just ok as a plate material. In terms of sound and feel, it doesn't offer much over plastics or brass. It does look cool.

Offline LightningXI

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #107 on: Mon, 25 March 2019, 06:23:55 »
Form filled

Offline TuCZnak

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #108 on: Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:46:50 »
Filled out the survey ;)
When do you expect to get the prototype(s)? If everything goes smoothly (and I know it often doesn't), when do you expect the GB to happen?

Offline PotatoTM

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #109 on: Mon, 25 March 2019, 11:26:24 »
Interesting material! Hope the total cost won't be too high
.

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #110 on: Mon, 25 March 2019, 17:40:47 »
Filled out the survey ;)
When do you expect to get the prototype(s)? If everything goes smoothly (and I know it often doesn't), when do you expect the GB to happen?
Hopefully, the prototype can come by the end of next week. If all goes well, I want to test for at least 2 weeks, and if it feels and looks good, GB immediately after that.

Offline tentboy

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #111 on: Tue, 26 March 2019, 07:34:08 »
Filled out the survey ;)
When do you expect to get the prototype(s)? If everything goes smoothly (and I know it often doesn't), when do you expect the GB to happen?
Hopefully, the prototype can come by the end of next week. If all goes well, I want to test for at least 2 weeks, and if it feels and looks good, GB immediately after that.
awesome!

Offline equalunique

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #112 on: Wed, 27 March 2019, 18:35:13 »
This material sounds very cool. I like that it's solid white/black so scratches on the surface don't alter the actual color.

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Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #113 on: Sat, 30 March 2019, 01:38:32 »
Update:
Sifting through manufacturers. Prototype quotes are prohibitive in NorCal so far
For example, my latest quotes have been for almost $10K for a 3 day turnaround, or $7K for a one month turnaround... on a prototype. I want three. Others have just been making me wait, or lying about what they can do with the material.
So still looking. Also considering just figuring out how to get funds for a used Haas and do this myself.
In the meantime, I’m making a 60% UHMW gasket mount in Fusion when I can. Family and work are kicking my butt, but this is going to happen. The more I mess with the sound of the material, the surer I am that it needs to be made into a keyboard case.

Offline tentboy

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #114 on: Sat, 30 March 2019, 08:35:02 »
Update:
Sifting through manufacturers. Prototype quotes are prohibitive in NorCal so far
For example, my latest quotes have been for almost $10K for a 3 day turnaround, or $7K for a one month turnaround... on a prototype. I want three. Others have just been making me wait, or lying about what they can do with the material.
So still looking. Also considering just figuring out how to get funds for a used Haas and do this myself.
In the meantime, I’m making a 60% UHMW gasket mount in Fusion when I can. Family and work are kicking my butt, but this is going to happen. The more I mess with the sound of the material, the surer I am that it needs to be made into a keyboard case.

take the time you need for work and family! appreciate the effort and cant wait to see how it comes out

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: [IC] Irma (Black WK case w/ brass weight pics added)
« Reply #115 on: Tue, 02 April 2019, 08:09:55 »
Tolerances are the issue. If it doesn't work out for a plate or because of the blockers on the TKL face, then 100% I'm doing a 60% case. I don't like tray mount, though.
If tolerances work out, then I'm still 100% doing a 60/65% case.

 
I think it's probably still worth doing a TKL with a metal plate even if you can't get the UHMW plate to work.

That said, I'd be happy to buy a 60% version as well!
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Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #116 on: Tue, 02 April 2019, 13:09:22 »
Found a couple manufacturers that can do gas infusion injection molding.
The prototype may be the only CNC'd version then, if injection molding is the way, in order to not have to make multiple molds.

Also, someone mentioned recently that it's possible to sandblast and cerakote plastics. They have to see if it's possible with UHMW, but if it is, they'd be able to do cerakote finishes with stencils, fades, etc.
This has me really excited, and if it's even possible, I would love to offer colored versions.
Also, UHMW being already very abrasion resistant, Cerakote would be a perfect "paint" job to stay in line with that theme.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #117 on: Tue, 02 April 2019, 13:18:25 »
Found a couple manufacturers that can do gas infusion injection molding.
The prototype may be the only CNC'd version then, if injection molding is the way, in order to not have to make multiple molds.

Also, someone mentioned recently that it's possible to sandblast and cerakote plastics. They have to see if it's possible with UHMW, but if it is, they'd be able to do cerakote finishes with stencils, fades, etc.
This has me really excited, and if it's even possible, I would love to offer colored versions.
Also, UHMW being already very abrasion resistant, Cerakote would be a perfect "paint" job to stay in line with that theme.

Cerakote requires heat treatment though, and I don't know if UHMW can stand up to the temperatures.
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos, after I came back from a break | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV | "Puddsy is the Puddsy of keebs" -ns90

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #118 on: Tue, 02 April 2019, 13:24:49 »
Found a couple manufacturers that can do gas infusion injection molding.
The prototype may be the only CNC'd version then, if injection molding is the way, in order to not have to make multiple molds.

Also, someone mentioned recently that it's possible to sandblast and cerakote plastics. They have to see if it's possible with UHMW, but if it is, they'd be able to do cerakote finishes with stencils, fades, etc.
This has me really excited, and if it's even possible, I would love to offer colored versions.
Also, UHMW being already very abrasion resistant, Cerakote would be a perfect "paint" job to stay in line with that theme.

Cerakote requires heat treatment though, and I don't know if UHMW can stand up to the temperatures.

I know abs can take cerakote, at least the low temp version.  I don't know the temperature characteristics of UHMW though.  I think injection molding is pretty friggin awesome if that's the route we're going. 

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #119 on: Tue, 02 April 2019, 16:01:31 »
Cerakote requires heat treatment though, and I don't know if UHMW can stand up to the temperatures.

I know abs can take cerakote, at least the low temp version.  I don't know the temperature characteristics of UHMW though.  I think injection molding is pretty friggin awesome if that's the route we're going.
So UHMW heat tolerance is about the same as ABS from what I've been told/read, which is at the bottom range of what is possible with Cerakote.
I'll find out for sure, though.

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #120 on: Wed, 03 April 2019, 13:32:21 »
So NorCal manufacturing is OUT.
But still kind of sticking to my guns on not using an overseas manufacturer. Nothing against that at all.
I just think I found a guy that is knowledgeable about this community, is proven, and has GREAT communication.
Today was the breakthrough I needed.
Also keep posted for another simultaneous IC/GB if the material proves worth doing.

****AND REAL RENDERS INCOMING!!!

Today has been a real blessing.
This community is amazing.
« Last Edit: Wed, 03 April 2019, 14:07:41 by Jaxxstatic »

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #121 on: Wed, 03 April 2019, 18:59:38 »
This reminds me of Ryan Norbauer’s pursuit for Cali manufacturing.  I wish you the best of luck, but it’s a tough job to find capable manufacturing in the US without spending a fortune.

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #122 on: Sat, 06 April 2019, 12:56:26 »
So, US manufacturer ✔ - out of California, but back to the Midwest, where I'm originally from. Prices are like a different planet.
Better renders ✔ - coming soon from Tesletron, who was an inspiration for this board in the first place with the Lumina, and its Corian case.
Plates in different materials ✔ - plate files will be posted, but the initial run, I plan to offer UHMW and brass. UHMW is very flexible at 1.5mm, but strong. Brass is brass.

When prototypes come in (hopefully soon), I'll be doing initial sound test comparison against my favorite sounding board--LZ CLS with STS plate--and my least favorite sounding board--CA66 with brass plate. I don't have a polycarbonate board on hand, so I'll be sending the prototypes to people who do.

The material is essentially what plastic cutting boards are made of. Someone suggested cutting vegetables on the back of one of the keyboards...

Offline Jkshowman

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #123 on: Sun, 07 April 2019, 02:28:19 »
I’m making a 60% UHMW gasket mount in Fusion when I can. Family and work are kicking my butt, but this is going to happen. The more I mess with the sound of the material, the surer I am that it needs to be made into a keyboard case.

super interested in that omg

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #124 on: Sun, 07 April 2019, 02:31:43 »
So, US manufacturer ✔ - out of California, but back to the Midwest, where I'm originally from. Prices are like a different planet.
Better renders ✔ - coming soon from Tesletron, who was an inspiration for this board in the first place with the Lumina, and its Corian case.
Plates in different materials ✔ - plate files will be posted, but the initial run, I plan to offer UHMW and brass. UHMW is very flexible at 1.5mm, but strong. Brass is brass.

When prototypes come in (hopefully soon), I'll be doing initial sound test comparison against my favorite sounding board--LZ CLS with STS plate--and my least favorite sounding board--CA66 with brass plate. I don't have a polycarbonate board on hand, so I'll be sending the prototypes to people who do.

The material is essentially what plastic cutting boards are made of. Someone suggested cutting vegetables on the back of one of the keyboards...

Send one to Taeha Types
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | AIS65 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos, after I came back from a break | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV | "Puddsy is the Puddsy of keebs" -ns90

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #125 on: Sun, 07 April 2019, 02:48:07 »

Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #126 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 11:42:02 »
You have my attention. :thumb:
<- My Collection (so far)

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #127 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 21:01:47 »
Friday update:
*Prototype is ordered and paid for. 10 day lead time for production, then it's shipped to me.
*Hiney has agreed to help out with PCBs. If there are enough orders, you can just get the PCB through the group buy, rather than from a vendor like was originally planned.
*I've got design ideas for the weight, but I'm also a fan of zero branding. I could just put all the design stuff into the packaging. Please let me know what you'd prefer.

Offline LightningXI

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #128 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 22:57:23 »
Friday update:
*Prototype is ordered and paid for. 10 day lead time for production, then it's shipped to me.
*Hiney has agreed to help out with PCBs. If there are enough orders, you can just get the PCB through the group buy, rather than from a vendor like was originally planned.
*I've got design ideas for the weight, but I'm also a fan of zero branding. I could just put all the design stuff into the packaging. Please let me know what you'd prefer.

Wow, quick progress! Exciting development about the prototype. Looking forward to more soonTM...

So does that mean that h87a would be compatible? Or something completely custom?

As for the design, 0 branding is neat -- but I'd be open to anything that suits the designer's tastes.

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #129 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 23:03:11 »
Friday update:
*Prototype is ordered and paid for. 10 day lead time for production, then it's shipped to me.
*Hiney has agreed to help out with PCBs. If there are enough orders, you can just get the PCB through the group buy, rather than from a vendor like was originally planned.
*I've got design ideas for the weight, but I'm also a fan of zero branding. I could just put all the design stuff into the packaging. Please let me know what you'd prefer.

Wow, quick progress! Exciting development about the prototype. Looking forward to more soonTM...

So does that mean that h87a would be compatible? Or something completely custom?

As for the design, 0 branding is neat -- but I'd be open to anything that suits the designer's tastes.
It’s h87a thicc boi compatible, so it’ll work with the thin and alps as well. Again, I really like Alps in plastic, so I’ll see about an alps plate

Offline p_blaze

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #130 on: Sun, 14 April 2019, 14:02:09 »
I really like Alps in plastic, so I’ll see about an alps plate

My man of good taste

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #131 on: Tue, 23 April 2019, 01:07:44 »
Sorry I missed the update on Friday. Here's what's going on:
*Manufacturer gave it a go, and... not successful. Honestly, they rushed it. I got a refund. Yay on that.
*I'm trying a different manufacturer. But honestly, I'm already working on the files for injection molding.
The slow annealing is what's really necessary, I think.
But another option would be to incorporate an inner brace/skeleton. HDPE is strong and maintains tolerances easily, while still being translucent.
I can use a HDPE skeleton framework with notches into the upper case, so that it locks together at a bunch of different points. I don't know how that skeleton would affect sound, however.

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #132 on: Tue, 23 April 2019, 08:30:17 »
Sorry I missed the update on Friday. Here's what's going on:
*Manufacturer gave it a go, and... not successful. Honestly, they rushed it. I got a refund. Yay on that.
*I'm trying a different manufacturer. But honestly, I'm already working on the files for injection molding.
The slow annealing is what's really necessary, I think.
But another option would be to incorporate an inner brace/skeleton. HDPE is strong and maintains tolerances easily, while still being translucent.
I can use a HDPE skeleton framework with notches into the upper case, so that it locks together at a bunch of different points. I don't know how that skeleton would affect sound, however.

Injection mold is very cool as well.  But what about cost?

I can probably find 4 different threads where I’ve been told injection mold is completely out of the question because of high cost. We’ve been asking for injection mold plastic cases in here for years... hell, maybe even a decade. If you find a way, you just made my year.

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #133 on: Tue, 23 April 2019, 09:44:05 »
Yeah cost is high, but like with carbon fiber, again I KNOW it's marked up for the attention to detail and trial & error that has to be done.
Even with fancy terms like "supercritical nitrogen-infused injection molding," it's really the multiple passes for press fits and guess-work for temperatures and flow rates that you're paying for. Time.
I need to have my hands literally ON the manufacturing. Like my own machines.
I've researched what I need, and I actually could do it on my own. Just need the $.

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #134 on: Tue, 23 April 2019, 11:09:34 »
Yeah cost is high, but like with carbon fiber, again I KNOW it's marked up for the attention to detail and trial & error that has to be done.
Even with fancy terms like "supercritical nitrogen-infused injection molding," it's really the multiple passes for press fits and guess-work for temperatures and flow rates that you're paying for. Time.
I need to have my hands literally ON the manufacturing. Like my own machines.
I've researched what I need, and I actually could do it on my own. Just need the $.

Didn't know the savior would show up on GH on a Tuesday morning.  Nice.

Anywhoo.... just show us where to throw the money.

Offline Ensaum

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #135 on: Sat, 18 May 2019, 14:59:16 »
Any updates in the past month? I'm still very interested in this project.

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #136 on: Sat, 18 May 2019, 17:46:33 »
OK!
My fault! I have been updating the Rukia thread here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100216.300
And it all pertains to the Irma project as well. BUT I should have kept updates in this thread also, even if just a hyperlink to the post in the other thread.
I am SO sorry for that. I didn't keep my word. I should have considered that people wouldn't necessarily be interested in both boards just because they're intended to be made of the same material. Different form factors, different interests.

Again, I apologize.

As for updates since the last post, I'll summarize:

Basically, UHMW has been too difficult for every manufacturer I've worked with to CNC. They either lie and say they can do it, then end up with warped prototypes that I have to get a refund for. Or they flat out tell me they won't work with the material. Or they give me unacceptable tolerances. Or they give size constraints due to the warping (no longer than 5"). 

Injection molding is the answer. But third party injection molding is way too expensive.
Nitrogen infusion is not as complicated as it sounds, though. And an injection molding set up, once done right is pretty easy to operate.

Highest costs are the machining done for the molds. It has to be an exact fit, so material has to be shaved off little by little, checking fit after each pass. That takes time and effort that fabs are going to charge a lot for.

My solution is that I should have my hands directly on the manufacturing...I should be the manufacturer.
So I'm using the Rukia (formerly plastic Alice) project to fund that endeavor. It's a polycarbonate Alice form factor for the first run, then UHMW down the line. Full carbon fiber sandwich is very likely coming sooner than anyone expects.

What I've come up against, though, is that for a first GB, I should keep numbers low to keep quality high. This also makes turnaround much faster, which is better for the buyers, but also lets me get moving on this--Irma--my first project.

Also, I made my profit margins waaay low because who am I? I haven't even done a successful GB yet.
But that leaves me with little to nothing to put into equipment and work space. I'm not intending a giant work shop or production floor like some kickstarters have attempted. I just need three machines and living room size work space to produce these keyboards. 

So that's where we're at. Rukia GB is about to drop soon. Rukia will help make Irma happen. This has only really pushed plans back about 90 days, though. I won't let it be a killer setback.

Offline Ensaum

  • Posts: 447
Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #137 on: Sat, 18 May 2019, 21:52:47 »
Okay, great. I don't mind a setback to get the board built properly. I'm personally not really in a rush bc Oblivion V2 will be going on this board in like 5 months minimum. Was just starting to worry that the board had been abandoned in favor of Rukia.

Offline minaknits

  • Posts: 15
Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #138 on: Fri, 24 May 2019, 20:20:15 »
OK!
My fault! I have been updating the Rukia thread here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100216.300
And it all pertains to the Irma project as well. BUT I should have kept updates in this thread also, even if just a hyperlink to the post in the other thread.
I am SO sorry for that. I didn't keep my word. I should have considered that people wouldn't necessarily be interested in both boards just because they're intended to be made of the same material. Different form factors, different interests.

Again, I apologize.

As for updates since the last post, I'll summarize:

Basically, UHMW has been too difficult for every manufacturer I've worked with to CNC. They either lie and say they can do it, then end up with warped prototypes that I have to get a refund for. Or they flat out tell me they won't work with the material. Or they give me unacceptable tolerances. Or they give size constraints due to the warping (no longer than 5"). 

Injection molding is the answer. But third party injection molding is way too expensive.
Nitrogen infusion is not as complicated as it sounds, though. And an injection molding set up, once done right is pretty easy to operate.

Highest costs are the machining done for the molds. It has to be an exact fit, so material has to be shaved off little by little, checking fit after each pass. That takes time and effort that fabs are going to charge a lot for.

My solution is that I should have my hands directly on the manufacturing...I should be the manufacturer.
So I'm using the Rukia (formerly plastic Alice) project to fund that endeavor. It's a polycarbonate Alice form factor for the first run, then UHMW down the line. Full carbon fiber sandwich is very likely coming sooner than anyone expects.

What I've come up against, though, is that for a first GB, I should keep numbers low to keep quality high. This also makes turnaround much faster, which is better for the buyers, but also lets me get moving on this--Irma--my first project.

Also, I made my profit margins waaay low because who am I? I haven't even done a successful GB yet.
But that leaves me with little to nothing to put into equipment and work space. I'm not intending a giant work shop or production floor like some kickstarters have attempted. I just need three machines and living room size work space to produce these keyboards. 

So that's where we're at. Rukia GB is about to drop soon. Rukia will help make Irma happen. This has only really pushed plans back about 90 days, though. I won't let it be a killer setback.
Thanks for the update! I just read this thread for the first time and I'm going to keep following you for potential future cases 60% or smaller


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Offline tex_live_utility

  • Posts: 990
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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #139 on: Sat, 25 May 2019, 06:44:10 »
You're a madman ;)

This is a truly ambitious effort, here's to your success.
Discord: salt rock lamp#0679 | Reddit: /u/nerdponx | Deskthority: autoload -Uz | Keebtalk: salt_rock_lamp
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Offline Jaxxstatic

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 431
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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #140 on: Sun, 26 May 2019, 18:50:06 »
Haggling haggling haggling.
That’s been my focus aside from the Rukia GB this week.
I’m getting used CNC equipment, not only because it’s cheaper but also because a lot of the calibration has been done and modifications made to get better tolerances.
But I’m making sure I get it right the first time. I can’t afford to make a bad purchase.
Also haggling for work space. Only need a living room size space. It’s exciting though. Getting lots of help from really experienced experts who are intrigued by the project.

Offline Jaxxstatic

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 431
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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #141 on: Mon, 10 June 2019, 23:54:58 »
Ok, so sorry it's been a while.
Updates:
-Will NOT be using a Tormach at all. HAAS all the way
-Suppliers for raw UHMW, liquid nitrogen, and aluminum locked in. Supply chain is very fast btw
-Found a space zoned for industrial use: much cheaper than I ever thought. I don't need a lot of space, so that helps. Also, made sure to check things like fire codes, ventilation, noise ordinances, and a billion other things to make sure I don't get hit with surprise costs after inspection. Just have to wait until the current tenants are finished with their contract, which is beginning of July.
-Irma is first in the queue for production
-Boards will be shipped as I QC them and have a second pair of eyes & hands on them. Luckily, I'm in an area with a lot of community members within driving distance ;)

So FYI:
-Will be using a cold runner system for cost savings; everything has been calculated around this type of system, though, so I'm good
-Heating bands won't be doing as much work as I thought, and are also much simpler to source then I thought. Most of the heat is generated from the screw feeding the plastic into the mold
-I've adjusted the mold designs over and over and over again, but I think I'm finally done. The biggest hurdle was figuring out the correct draft angle to allow the machine to work without creating a vacuum when releasing the finished part. Cooling time was simpler than I thought, and I'll be overdoing it to make extra sure there is no warping.

Edit:
Oh btw, another added benefit of doing injection molding is that I can mix my own proprietary blends for colors. Also, since it's a non-FDA application, I can add graphite for added antistatic protection.
« Last Edit: Tue, 11 June 2019, 00:22:17 by Jaxxstatic »

Offline stoic-lemon

  • Posts: 970
  • Location: Saitama, Japan
Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #142 on: Tue, 11 June 2019, 01:51:03 »
Oh, a bit of cinnamon in mine, please. 👌

Offline TuCZnak

  • Posts: 209
  • Location: Where ISO is the default (anywhere but USA)
Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #143 on: Tue, 11 June 2019, 09:49:34 »
Whoa, you've moved that far? I stopped following the PC Alice thread, this seems like great progress!  :thumb:

Offline KingOfMemes

  • Posts: 845
  • Location: Murica, the best country in the world
Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #144 on: Tue, 11 June 2019, 14:42:37 »
Oh btw, another added benefit of doing injection molding is that I can mix my own proprietary blends for colors. Also, since it's a non-FDA application, I can add graphite for added antistatic protection.
This sounds awesome, and the colorway would look absolutely sick. Also, scheduled updates are best, thanks for doing those.

Offline tex_live_utility

  • Posts: 990
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Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #145 on: Tue, 11 June 2019, 22:32:48 »
Wow, this is really coming together. Great to see the updates.
Discord: salt rock lamp#0679 | Reddit: /u/nerdponx | Deskthority: autoload -Uz | Keebtalk: salt_rock_lamp
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Offline Sycomore

  • Posts: 184
  • Location: The Best State, Australia
Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #146 on: Wed, 12 June 2019, 00:09:21 »
After lurking on the Rukia thread and not being able to get a spot and now moving over to this. I gotta say i need to get me one of these boards, top of my want list for real.

Offline pnkpanther65

  • Posts: 62
Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #147 on: Mon, 22 July 2019, 15:18:07 »

Oh btw, another added benefit of doing injection molding is that I can mix my own proprietary blends for colors. Also, since it's a non-FDA application, I can add graphite for added antistatic protection.
light pigment additive for pastel color options; i fw that heavy

Offline Dakk1d

  • Posts: 50
Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #148 on: Mon, 22 July 2019, 18:16:46 »
Interested in this. Good luck!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Offline Keebo

  • Posts: 7
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: [IC] Irma (Survey Form Added)
« Reply #149 on: Tue, 30 July 2019, 20:00:30 »
1A8 rep


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