Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 1238262 times)

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Offline Jagriff

  • Posts: 151
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2500 on: Thu, 20 June 2013, 21:55:04 »
Notice how for me the top top keys and the middle one on the right cause considerable bending/stretching of the wrist. I hope many of you can do the same! Thanks.

I don't have an ErgoDox, but just looking at your pictures, It seems
that you should be rotating the keyboard clockwise by 30+ degrees
relative to your hand.  It looks like your fingers finally are lined-up
with the columns on the keyboard when you're at maximum twist
with your thumbs on the inner-most keys. 

Wouldn't that go a long ways to addressing the issue you're
concerned about? Does that work or not work for some reason?
I was thinking the same thing, but then I realized something. Whenever you rest on the homerow, having your pinky match the other three fingers causes your hand to tilt. An interesting idea would be to rest the pinky on the row below the home row. I may try that out by shifting that whole column of keys down one in the firmware.
« Last Edit: Thu, 20 June 2013, 22:15:47 by Jagriff »

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2501 on: Thu, 20 June 2013, 22:12:24 »
I took similar pics a while ago, for just a slightly different reason.

Offline Larken

  • Posts: 624
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2502 on: Thu, 20 June 2013, 23:13:11 »
As for the placement of the thumb keys I thought rather than say "I like it here" or "no that sucks" we could get at least a little bit scientific-ish. So I took pictures of my hand touching all the keys with my thumb and I hope more people can also do this also. I also made it into a gif using gifninja so that I didn't have to post it anywhere on my own.

I also touched 3 places where keys would be if they were 3 keys directly below the thumb keys.

The big issue for RSI that we should be looking to prevent with the keyboard is the sharp angle of the wrist when stretching but these photos are to help determine these or other issues and where the best fit is. Please do this if you can (Even if you like ergodox as it is) so we can evaluate the general positions of peoples wrists and hands. You can see where the issues are in my gif below:

Show Image


Notice how for me the top top keys and the middle one on the right cause considerable bending/stretching of the wrist. I hope many of you can do the same! Thanks.

My personal take on this is that you need to tent and tilt your keyboard. My wrists are relatively straight in this set up.

There have also been a few people I let try my ergodox when I met up with them. I let them try it with and without tenting. Within that 10 seconds, unsolicited, their comments have been that even a slight tenting angles makes a huge difference.

Before I started using the ergodox I was have problems with my wrists from typing up to 8 hours a day. After I got the ergodox, it improved slightly. Then I tented it, the improvement was even more significant. A few weeks later when I got the kinesis v3s to achieve an adjustable tenting system (thanks to Glod's reccomendation), I'm basically able to sit and type for longer than that 8 hours (with small breaks in between of course) or longer, and not have any more problems with my wrist.

Picture's worth a thousand words.



There's a video of typing on the ergodox I made on request of another forumer, which might help to show what I mean.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44485.0

Unfortunately the video's cut off above the wrist, but the picture above is exactly how it looks when I'm typing normally.

| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Offline Glod

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2503 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 03:30:36 »
yep, tenting and tilt makes a huge difference





adjustable tenting is nice too, i havent modified this yet so right now it has less slope than i want to set it to

Offline BlueByLiquid

  • Posts: 122
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2504 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 12:48:59 »
BlueByLiquid-  I think your thumb cluster ideas have merit. I've been working on a thumb cluster modification that echo your concerns. I'll post a drawing soon.

I think Glod was referring to the 8-1x1 caps only.

Will be interested to see what you do! :)

Offline BlueByLiquid

  • Posts: 122
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2505 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 12:53:15 »
Notice how for me the top top keys and the middle one on the right cause considerable bending/stretching of the wrist. I hope many of you can do the same! Thanks.

I don't have an ErgoDox, but just looking at your pictures, It seems
that you should be rotating the keyboard clockwise by 30+ degrees
relative to your hand.  It looks like your fingers finally are lined-up
with the columns on the keyboard when you're at maximum twist
with your thumbs on the inner-most keys. 

Wouldn't that go a long ways to addressing the issue you're
concerned about? Does that work or not work for some reason?

It has to do with the position of the home row. You can see in some of the other people's pictures that their hands tend to set similar to mine.

I agree tenting helps some but mine is also tented and I am working on making it more tented.

Based on the two other photos it looks like people's hands rest toward the inside lower section so I will wait to see more photos but I think it looks like moving the top 2 keys below would be better and maybe even the top right key.

Offline GGLucas

  • Posts: 10
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2506 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 13:32:13 »
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« Last Edit: Fri, 24 June 2022, 04:56:58 by GGLucas »

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2507 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 14:46:25 »
First, it's great to see someone who took the time to debug it all the way down to that line of code, lol - thanks :-) .

A couple things to check:
- Are all the resistors in place?  Not having the 2.2kΩ pull up resistors on the I2C SCL and SDA lines would cause this problem.
- Have you wired the Teensy USB to the board USB, and are you plugging into the board USB?  If you haven't done this (and you also haven't jumpered the Teensy VCC to the board VCC, which would be another, but much less common, option) then the board isn't getting power, which would mean (among other things) that the pull up resistors weren't actually doing anything.

Since the Teensy is working, and assuming that nothing abnormal is going on, these are the only two things I can think of that would cause this exact problem.  Please post back with whatever you find :-) .

Offline BlueByLiquid

  • Posts: 122
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2508 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 14:48:45 »
Hi. I just got to building my ergodox kit (stuck in customs for the longest time), and I've kind of hit a wall. If anyone here who's more well-versed in electronics and the ergodox firmware could help me out on starting to debug this I would really appreciate it.

Currently, I finished all the soldering except adding in all the keyswitches. I put some on the right side for testing, the left side is completely empty of keyswitches, but all the diodes, the connector and the mcp are in place.

The teensy is working, I can load firmware onto it, but none of the test keys on the right side register with the default firmware. After some testing (turning on the teensy LED at different points in the code), I figured out that the mcp23018_ functions in controller.c were the problem. Commenting them out makes the keys on the right side register and work fine, but of course now there's no communication with the left side.

It seems like it freezes in twi_start, when waiting for the TWINT bit to be set after the operation, ie:

Code: [Select]
uint8_t twi_start(void) {
// send start
TWCR = (1<<TWINT)|(1<<TWEN)|(1<<TWSTA);
// wait for transmission to complete
while (!(TWCR & (1<<TWINT))); // <==== This line never finishes
// if it didn't work, return the status code (else return 0)
if ( (TW_STATUS != TW_START) &&
     (TW_STATUS != TW_REP_START) )
return TW_STATUS;  // error
return 0;  // success
}

I'm not familiar enough with teensy or the i2c bus to understand why that would happen.

I connected the jump points on the 3.5mm connectors, as far as I can tell the diodes on the left side are getting power, I'm not sure how I would check for the mcp.

If anyone could point me at some things that might be wrong that would really help. I'm quite new to soldering and using a multimeter.

How many keys have you soldered on the right side? I think you need to solder at least a full row and column for even one to work and even then only the one corner key will work until you connect more (AGAIN I may not understand the wiring but I believe that is the case.

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2509 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 15:00:04 »
How many keys have you soldered on the right side? I think you need to solder at least a full row and column for even one to work and even then only the one corner key will work until you connect more (AGAIN I may not understand the wiring but I believe that is the case.

Actually, keyswitches are normally not connected until pressed (as you can kind of see in this picture) - so the keyboard really doesn't know whether switches (or diodes) are there at all until one of the switches is pressed.  During prototyping (and sometimes still, in order to experiment with different LEDs and such) I've had just the Teensy (with pull up resistors on SCL and SDA) on a breadboard by itself, and used a wire to simulate key presses (by shorting a "row" pin to a "column" pin).
« Last Edit: Fri, 21 June 2013, 15:03:28 by ic07 »

Offline GGLucas

  • Posts: 10
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2510 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 15:01:55 »
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« Last Edit: Fri, 24 June 2022, 04:57:09 by GGLucas »

Offline GGLucas

  • Posts: 10
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2511 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 15:32:27 »
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« Last Edit: Fri, 24 June 2022, 04:57:16 by GGLucas »

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2512 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 15:57:29 »
Quote
- Are all the resistors in place?  Not having the 2.2kΩ pull up resistors on the I2C SCL and SDA lines would cause this problem.

Hmm. That could be it. The resistors are in place, which pins are they supposed to be continuous to? I have my multimeter beeping both the resistors with the pin labeled B4 and no other pins (except VCC, but that seems right). Maybe I screwed something up with the pin soldering.

You may wish to see this circuit diagram (download from github (if you haven't already), then view).  B4 should be shorted to VCC (because it's used on the left hand side as one of the decoupling capacitor pins) so that explains that.  But one of the resistors should be continuous with D0, and the other should be continuous with D1.

Offline GGLucas

  • Posts: 10
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2513 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 16:10:58 »
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« Last Edit: Fri, 24 June 2022, 04:57:29 by GGLucas »

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2514 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 16:27:30 »
:-) Glad you got it.

Offline Lawngahnome

  • Posts: 25
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2515 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 16:56:29 »
If you use surface mount or two color LEDs you need to dremel out the light sections either way. This is because Cherry MX switchs only have two holes for pins (They have the wide open area but below there are only two holes that lead out of the switch. When you dremel that piece out you can widen the hole a fair bit without causing damage to the switch (at least not that I could see).

I think it would be a bit tedious but not to bad if you use solder paste for the surface mount parts. Obviously these size RGB LEDs have close pins and you would definitely want the 4pin ones NOT the 6 pin ones because that is more soldering.

As for the number of lights yes you can do that as each channel is controlled separately. But the great thing about Colorduinos is that they can accept and forward I2C on so you can chain them to control as many colorduinos as you want you just need two or more boards. They are pretty nice.

I was worried about there only being two holes, but I don't have my kit yet, so I haven't been able to actually hold a switch in my hand. Thanks for the info!

Are you considering retrofitting your current ErgoDox to have lights? That's what I'm mainly interested in, but I'm not sure how to run the wires between LED's in this particular kit. If I dremel out the LED area in the switch, could I then bend the leads around the bottom of the switch so they pop out below the main pcb? I could then do all the wiring on the underside. I would have to be pretty careful to keep all the wires insulated, so I don't create any shorts

On subject of number and type of lights, my concern (and this is totally personal) is that I'm not much of a programmer, and having a whole spectrum of lights, and two colorduinos creates the potential to do more on the programming side. I just have no interest in that. I'd rather simplify my software by limiting my hardware. Totally personal preference thought.

Offline actionbastard

  • Posts: 57
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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2516 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 17:29:18 »
Woo just joined the GB, I hope I don't "have" to buy any more keyboards any time soon.  ^-^

Anyone know what's up with the commits disappearing?
XArmor U9BL-S | Ducky DK9008G2 PRO | ErgoDox (soon)

Offline BlueByLiquid

  • Posts: 122
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2517 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 19:55:23 »

Anyone know what's up with the commits disappearing?

I thought that was weird to. I made a detailed post there on what I thought was wrong with the instructions in the hopes they would fix them but I don't think I will put up the effort again.

Offline thadood

  • Posts: 64
  • Location: Memphis, TN
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2518 on: Sat, 22 June 2013, 10:31:31 »

Anyone know what's up with the commits disappearing?

I thought that was weird to. I made a detailed post there on what I thought was wrong with the instructions in the hopes they would fix them but I don't think I will put up the effort again.

I've heard that some comments are disappearing off of the GB page, but there's also an issue with the the counter for those that are committed to purchasing once it hits $200. Commit/comment.. issues with both!

Offline BlueByLiquid

  • Posts: 122
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2519 on: Sun, 23 June 2013, 02:27:08 »
I am currently doing another keyboard lighting project (I will hopefully be done with soon). I am using the Colorduino board. It can control 64RGB leds, or 192 single LEDs. It can be controlled over I2C over usb (which is my goal as I am having OS integration so that I can display things on the keys. It is also a fully arduino board so you can manage a lot on it alone. It manages everything for you so all you have to set in code is the rgb value or the brightness for the led.  One example I have been doing is displaying processor usage by lighting up the 0-9 keys. there are a lot of neat things you can do once you have this level of control and can interface with the computer.

Also I have a prototype RGB one. I have heard people don't think this is possible because you of RGB diodes only coming in 5mm, which is true but I made a test version that works with surface mount RGB led and it works well. You can either dremel the keys or mount them slightly at an angle on the pcb and they work great. I need to make a board as no one in their right mind would solder that many points. I am actually most exited about the rgb part as you can do so much awesome stuff when you have full color.

They have risers on the board but if those are soldered it could easily fit in the open space of the full hand version of the ergodox.

I have gotten them as lot a $11 but they are normally about $20. I reacently got mine at HobbyKing http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__26845__colorduino_v2_0_rgb_led_matrix_driver.html

Doing the surface mount LED's by hand is super tedious. What about bi-color leds? A red/blue tri lead led could produce red, blue, and a whole variety of purples. It's also effectively 2 leds, so a single colorduino could drive 96 of them (right?). There are 84 keys on the ErgoDox, so using bi color led's would cover them all, while 64 RGB's wouldn't. Bi's also come in 3mm packages, so it solves the surface mount issue.

This sounds like something I would like to try out. I would obviously have to solder the matrix myself. Do you know of any resources that outline how to do that? I've seen a ton of examples with already done RGB matrixes, but this isn't the same, and those are only using it, not building it.

EDIT: Not sure if all 3 pins for bi color LEDs will fit through the MX switches. The LED is a 3mm package, but the leads are wider.

Check my videos and images on my finished lighting project I just posted:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45078.0

I can help you on how to wire it if you need to. It is very simple just time consuming. I don't know if you will be able to wire the current board by hand because of spacing but if you want to let me know.


Offline kurplop

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2520 on: Sun, 23 June 2013, 21:13:39 »
I bought a second set of PCB's on the first group buy and thought I'd try something different with them. Overall I an very happy with the ErgoDox and don't think I could ever go back to a conventional board again.

One thing that I think could be improved is the thumb cluster. Others have voiced a desire for it to be a bit closer to the main board. I agree. I also have trouble hitting the center button on the inside vertical columns with my thumbs. The top buttons became much more accessible when I replaced the dsa's with top tow dcs's . The extra height makes a huge difference.

Here are a couple of pictures of a rough mockup of my early ideas. I cannibalized some switches and caps from a Siig Mini and a TE. If I go with this arraignment  I'll try my hand at resin casting some custom caps  http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGiY7Wa

« Last Edit: Mon, 24 June 2013, 04:34:15 by kurplop »

Offline Lawngahnome

  • Posts: 25
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2521 on: Sun, 23 June 2013, 22:49:00 »
Check my videos and images on my finished lighting project I just posted:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45078.0

I can help you on how to wire it if you need to. It is very simple just time consuming. I don't know if you will be able to wire the current board by hand because of spacing but if you want to let me know.

Read your post and saw the videos. They look great! I would like to wire the current board. Perhaps it would be possible to get the pins bent down and under the pcb? Do all the wiring underneath? What about drilling through the pcb? I'm not sure how many switches have diodes across them, so not sure if that's possible either.

Offline BlueByLiquid

  • Posts: 122
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2522 on: Sun, 23 June 2013, 23:17:59 »
Read your post and saw the videos. They look great! I would like to wire the current board. Perhaps it would be possible to get the pins bent down and under the pcb? Do all the wiring underneath? What about drilling through the pcb? I'm not sure how many switches have diodes across them, so not sure if that's possible either.

Thanks!

I just pulled up the schematic and you should be able to drill through the pcb...but not for every key. A number of the keys run wiring right where you will need to drill also there is wiring for the currently supported LEDs. You will have to be very careful and have the schematic up for viewing while you drill. It may be better to see if anyone will make a PCB that is wired already but you seem pretty determined. The wires will have to be pretty thin and very precise.

Offline actionbastard

  • Posts: 57
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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2523 on: Mon, 24 June 2013, 14:50:08 »
We hit $200  :)
XArmor U9BL-S | Ducky DK9008G2 PRO | ErgoDox (soon)

Offline bisl

  • Posts: 212
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2524 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 12:04:08 »
I was thinking the same thing, but then I realized something. Whenever you rest on the homerow, having your pinky match the other three fingers causes your hand to tilt. An interesting idea would be to rest the pinky on the row below the home row. I may try that out by shifting that whole column of keys down one in the firmware.

I have in fact been doing this since day 1! I've grown to like it quite a bit. My current build:

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=GK8FX3&hash=77ef5f9840dae6233ecf42182f0ee940

The only thing I don't like is that it's biomechanically IMPOSSIBLE to to stretch the ring finger up while curling the pinky, and in practice this makes key combinations such as W, A very hard to do. If you play games on WASD (well, WQSD on this config, ha) it's exceedingly hard to drop down to the A with your pinky while keeping your ring finger on the W. Small price to pay, but in the interest of bias I'd thought I've give my own pro/con view.

On the other hand, I've been trying to dream up a new vision of qwerty (or anything else as a base, really) that utilizes the fact that the pinky is shorter than the other fingers, and only attempts to use it for two keys. Likewise that the inner two columns (TGB and YHN, respectively) involve a horizontal shift which is much more complex than simply raising or dropping the finger by one key; thus, this is where I would attempt to put lesser-used keys such as ZXQJKV or something.

Offline Lawngahnome

  • Posts: 25
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2525 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 13:19:43 »
Thanks!

I just pulled up the schematic and you should be able to drill through the pcb...but not for every key. A number of the keys run wiring right where you will need to drill also there is wiring for the currently supported LEDs. You will have to be very careful and have the schematic up for viewing while you drill. It may be better to see if anyone will make a PCB that is wired already but you seem pretty determined. The wires will have to be pretty thin and very precise.

Drilling through the PCB is probably too risky. I want to do this because it's cool, but not at the cost of damaging the board. I already have the switches (and about a dozen spares, so I can experiment), plus some transparent keys that I harvested from an off the shelf backlit cherry mx keyboard. If I can make the backlight work, great. If not, I'm not out any money, just time.

I have a pretty clear picture of what is possible, so I know what I need to look at when the board gets here. My biggest hurdle (I think) will be finding a way to get access to, and wire, the leads.

Offline longweight

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2526 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 15:11:01 »
If I order through the massdrop site is there any chance that I can get brown switches?

Offline ksm123

  • Posts: 104
  • Location: Poland
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2527 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 15:18:27 »
My ErgoDox (MassDrop generated firmware) works well with Windows and Linux, but Solaris 11 does not register any key in X. I didn't have time to check console or diagnose it yet, maybe next week I'll be able to look into it.

Offline actionbastard

  • Posts: 57
  • Location: California
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2528 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 15:23:54 »
If I order through the massdrop site is there any chance that I can get brown switches?

I only see black, blue, and clear.
XArmor U9BL-S | Ducky DK9008G2 PRO | ErgoDox (soon)

Offline longweight

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2529 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 15:38:01 »
I can't see the difference between the two difference case options, any ideas?


Has anyone with RSI found this keyboard helps?

Offline SubGothius

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2530 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 18:48:06 »
On the other hand, I've been trying to dream up a new vision of qwerty (or anything else as a base, really) that utilizes the fact that the pinky is shorter than the other fingers, and only attempts to use it for two keys. Likewise that the inner two columns (TGB and YHN, respectively) involve a horizontal shift which is much more complex than simply raising or dropping the finger by one key; thus, this is where I would attempt to put lesser-used keys such as ZXQJKV or something.

You may be interested in the Workman layout:
http://viralintrospection.wordpress.com/2010/09/06/a-different-philosophy-in-designing-keyboard-layouts/
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Offline thadood

  • Posts: 64
  • Location: Memphis, TN
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2531 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 18:54:35 »
I can't see the difference between the two difference case options, any ideas?


Has anyone with RSI found this keyboard helps?

Full hand has a palm rest. Classic doesn't.

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2532 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 20:36:34 »
If I order through the massdrop site is there any chance that I can get brown switches?

You could order with no switches (-$44) and then source your own from the 7-bit group buy (or elsewhere).  It'll cost a bit more, and you'll have to wait a while though.

My ErgoDox (MassDrop generated firmware) works well with Windows and Linux, but Solaris 11 does not register any key in X. I didn't have time to check console or diagnose it yet, maybe next week I'll be able to look into it.

Weird...  The massdrop generated layouts should be running the USB code straight from PJRC - no Comsumer Page (media key) stuff enabled or anything.  I'm assuming other USB keyboards work with the same setup?  I'll be curious to know what you find.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2533 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 20:59:50 »
Here are a couple of pictures of a rough mockup of my early ideas. I cannibalized some switches and caps from a Siig Mini and a TE. If I go with this arraignment  I'll try my hand at resin casting some custom caps  http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGiY7Wa
Pretty cool.

An alternative to resin-casting key caps would be to take low-profile Tipro relegendable key caps that are flat on the tops, remove the tops and glue on pieces of textured plastic that have been cut (or even heat-formed) into the right shape. It would be hard to make the key caps look good, but they would be more resilient against wear than soft urethane.
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 June 2013, 21:02:43 by Findecanor »

Offline Jagriff

  • Posts: 151
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2534 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 21:34:15 »
I was thinking the same thing, but then I realized something. Whenever you rest on the homerow, having your pinky match the other three fingers causes your hand to tilt. An interesting idea would be to rest the pinky on the row below the home row. I may try that out by shifting that whole column of keys down one in the firmware.

I have in fact been doing this since day 1! I've grown to like it quite a bit. My current build:

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=GK8FX3&hash=77ef5f9840dae6233ecf42182f0ee940

The only thing I don't like is that it's biomechanically IMPOSSIBLE to to stretch the ring finger up while curling the pinky, and in practice this makes key combinations such as W, A very hard to do. If you play games on WASD (well, WQSD on this config, ha) it's exceedingly hard to drop down to the A with your pinky while keeping your ring finger on the W. Small price to pay, but in the interest of bias I'd thought I've give my own pro/con view.

On the other hand, I've been trying to dream up a new vision of qwerty (or anything else as a base, really) that utilizes the fact that the pinky is shorter than the other fingers, and only attempts to use it for two keys. Likewise that the inner two columns (TGB and YHN, respectively) involve a horizontal shift which is much more complex than simply raising or dropping the finger by one key; thus, this is where I would attempt to put lesser-used keys such as ZXQJKV or something.
Yeah I thought of it also because when I use my implementation of theCore on the ErgoDox (when playing SC2), my home fingers are ZSDF (QWERTY keys for reference, although I use Colemak). I tried it out for a little while after that post and game up on it because, as you mention, combinations like WA is very hard while typing. Whenever I have the time I may mess with it again because it does create more comfortable home keys.

Offline ksm123

  • Posts: 104
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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2535 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 05:01:04 »
My ErgoDox (MassDrop generated firmware) works well with Windows and Linux, but Solaris 11 does not register any key in X. I didn't have time to check console or diagnose it yet, maybe next week I'll be able to look into it.

Weird...  The massdrop generated layouts should be running the USB code straight from PJRC - no Comsumer Page (media key) stuff enabled or anything.  I'm assuming other USB keyboards work with the same setup?  I'll be curious to know what you find.

I've investigated it a little today. The breakthrough came when I've connected my Das back to KVM and it was ignored too.
I think one of KVM "channels" hang up. After I reconnected KVM to the machine all worked fine. Sorry for false alert.

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2536 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 06:20:50 »
My ErgoDox (MassDrop generated firmware) works well with Windows and Linux, but Solaris 11 does not register any key in X. I didn't have time to check console or diagnose it yet, maybe next week I'll be able to look into it.

Weird...  The massdrop generated layouts should be running the USB code straight from PJRC - no Comsumer Page (media key) stuff enabled or anything.  I'm assuming other USB keyboards work with the same setup?  I'll be curious to know what you find.

I've investigated it a little today. The breakthrough came when I've connected my Das back to KVM and it was ignored too.
I think one of KVM "channels" hang up. After I reconnected KVM to the machine all worked fine. Sorry for false alert.

Lol. Whew. Thanks for checking it out :-)

Offline longweight

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2537 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 06:52:59 »
I can't see the difference between the two difference case options, any ideas?


Has anyone with RSI found this keyboard helps?

Full hand has a palm rest. Classic doesn't.


Thank you, I can't find any images of the two options anywhere. Am I doing it wrong?

Offline Larken

  • Posts: 624
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2538 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 07:02:39 »
I can't see the difference between the two difference case options, any ideas?


Has anyone with RSI found this keyboard helps?

Full hand has a palm rest. Classic doesn't.


Thank you, I can't find any images of the two options anywhere. Am I doing it wrong?

classic



fullhand



not my pics. just pulled them from random places from massdrop and this thread.

it's definitely had an impact on my wrist pains.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Offline longweight

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2539 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 07:05:27 »
Thank you very much.


Which version did you go for?

Offline Larken

  • Posts: 624
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2540 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 07:08:33 »
Thank you very much.


Which version did you go for?

I have one of each, but my daily driver is the fullhand, which is definitely more comfortable when tented. The other one will be meant for travel.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Offline longweight

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2541 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 07:20:42 »
Again, thank you very much!

Offline bisl

  • Posts: 212
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2542 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 15:04:34 »

Yeah I thought of it also because when I use my implementation of theCore on the ErgoDox (when playing SC2)

OH MY GOD YOU USE THECORE?! Haahahaahah that's AMAZING. As it turns out, TheCore was about 75% of the reason why I was so excited about ErgoDox. I use TheCore too, although I'm a lefty as you might have guessed given the Ctrl/Shift/Alt positioning. The columnar layout is fantastic for this!

I actually showed TheJakatak the ErgoDox when it was still in its design infancy, but he didn't seem interested--probably because adopting a niche keyboard might hurt adoption of bindings in general.

But yeah, wow--small world.

Offline longweight

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2543 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 15:05:52 »
If I place my order today for clears will there be a long wait for the switches? I take it that I will have to pay when the sale ends in a couple of days.

Offline palmtrees

  • Posts: 1
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2544 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 21:02:44 »
Hi Guys,

This thread is quite long, I haven't read it all the way through so forgive me. It appears that these home-made split keyboards might be currently for sale? I have some ergonomic issues and have been searching high and low for a truly split keyboard like this, and I can't find one anywhere.

How can I order one of these? Does it work with Mac?

Thanks.


Offline kurplop

  • THE HERO WE DON'T DESERVE
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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2545 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 21:25:29 »
Go to the Massdrop website. There is currently a group buy for them that will end soon for $199.


Offline SubGothius

  • Posts: 79
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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2546 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 21:28:40 »
This thread is quite long, I haven't read it all the way through so forgive me. It appears that these home-made split keyboards might be currently for sale? I have some ergonomic issues and have been searching high and low for a truly split keyboard like this, and I can't find one anywhere.

How can I order one of these? Does it work with Mac?

You'd need to register with Massdrop and join the ErgoDox group buy (only 3 days left!). Note that this is a DIY kit, not a fully assembled board, so you would be expected to solder all the components to the circuit board and assemble it yourself, or possibly pay someone to do it for you. WhiteFireDragon made a very nice, detailed assembly video that you may find helpful. FWIW, I hadn't soldered much of anything since high school shop class ~25 years ago and had little trouble with this project.

If you don't feel up to the task of assembly and really just want to try a board with fully separated halves but not necessarily something as "radical" as the ErgoDox, look into a Kinesis Freestyle, which is otherwise more of a traditional layout and available fairly cheaply on eBay.
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2547 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 23:21:57 »
Ps: It does work with Macs. It should work with anything that recognizes a standard USB keyboard.

Offline suka

  • Posts: 52
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2548 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 02:34:08 »
Whenever you rest on the homerow, having your pinky match the other three fingers causes your hand to tilt. An interesting idea would be to rest the pinky on the row below the home row.
I have in fact been doing this since day 1!
+1 here: That was one of the reasons I did not get an ErgoDox in the first place: I had figured from my own designs that dropping the pinky column down one row in relation to the middle finger one was beneficial for the pinkies reach. Then again, as I also don't use the outmost pinky column any more there is not much strain on it anyways. I have been experimenting with many different offsets, but the current compromise between a rather regular compact layout and adjusted offsets with two 1/2 key drops is a joy to type on:
26727-0

Offline Glod

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2549 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 03:42:25 »
oh you and your creations suka...  :D my mind is being blown