[DISCUSSION] Moogle kit round 3

[The_Ed]

There needs to be a poll of which keys everyone wants. The ones with enough votes make it. The ones without enough votes don't.

End all this confusion.

[tsangan]

You forgot the 1.5 modifier kit, the 1.5 blank single add-on keys, the "Tab" and "Backspace" add-on kit, and there is no mention of the left-stemmed un-stepped capslock.

1.5x modifier kit won't happen there is no interest, for the people let me quote hashbaz

Yup, I don't understand the point either, unless you are harvesting keys from an off-center Cherry board and putting them on a 1.5x center-stemmed board.  Doesn't seem incredibly likely to me.

1.5x Blanks no interest once again, you're the only person to bring this up

"Tab" and "Backspace" add-on kit, I answered this with ripster as cost is high so we MIGHT not be doing it

left-stemmed un-stepped capslock, for the 2nd time today on this page there is under 5 people that want this, that is equal to no interest so not happening.

Please don't waste our time with polls, people that have suggested things that MORE people are interested are already included. While YOU are suggesting things YOU want and no one else

[fossala]

I will be happy with anything but if I could only have one "extra" it would be anti-caps.

[eth0s]

C) Some have been pushing for a full modifier set that includes tab, backspace, and enter as well, in order to maintain a consistent look.

I would choose hashbaz's Option C.

However, Tsangan's proposals leave out the following keys necessary for Option C (i.e., a full modifier set):

Tab 1.50x
Backspace 2.00x

Can we add those two keys in someplace?

[tsangan]

No one reads what I post?

Tab, Backspace and Enter ALL requires legends fee. Not only that we don't know if cycloverid have time to make SVGs for us and due to high cost, I don't know who wants to get in on that. I DO NOT FEEL like its fair to include that in base kit, even though I also want those 3 keys but once people see the cost I think that will change.

[pitashen]

The anti-capslock is NOT what a "moogle" was meant to do. It is thus scope creep and should either be optional or another separate GB.

huh? excuse me but anti-capslock is actually a legit keycap from the Cherry Corp Dobleshots family. "If" enough people are using capslock as control key then it could be what the new moogle meant to be.

[tsangan]

well thats why its a add-on and not base, because not everyone that wants a moogle wants that

[lightsout714]

No one reads what I post?

Tab, Backspace and Enter ALL requires legends fee. Not only that we don't know if cycloverid have time to make SVGs for us and due to high cost, I don't know who wants to get in on that. I DO NOT FEEL like its fair to include that in base kit, even though I also want those 3 keys but once people see the cost I think that will change.

Yah I agree I want them too but I'm not paying 50 bucks for a moogle. We need an organized list for SP of what we want an a couple options to get an idea of price. tsangan I think you have it pretty well figured out.

[fossala]

huh? excuse me but anti-capslock is actually a legit keycap from the Cherry Corp Dobleshots family. "If" enough people are using capslock as control key then it could be what the new moogle meant to be.

Show Image

I need one of the boards.

[hashbaz]

Good discussion everyone.  Thanks tsangan for taking a pass at distilling these ideas into concrete sets.  I agree that a poll is not likely to be very useful.  I'll talk to Melissa this coming week.  That should help us decide what can fit into the base kit.

We're definitely sticking with the Windows logo (as opposed to an OS-agnostic symbol).  I imagine blanks will be cheap so we can probably offer those too.

I'm not hearing a lot of interest in 1.5x modifiers.  I agree that anti-capslock doesn't really fit under the moogle umbrella, but it seems like there's plenty of interest.  It'd require tweaking the caps lock legend since it's currently too wide to fit on a 1.25x key.

Is it really just enter and backslash that we would need for the ISO->ANSI adapter kit?

[The_Ed]

I don't personally wan't 1.5 anything either. It was in the OP so technically it should be included in conversation. All I want from a moogle kit is:

2 x windows 1.25
1 x menu 1.25
1 x center-shafted un-stepped capslock
1 x left-shafted un-stepped capslock

That's it.

All I am using from my moogle 2 is 2 x windows and 1 x menu. 3 keys.

For capslock I have to use this frankenstein. Which is why it would be nice to have a left-shafted un-stepped capslock in a moogle kit.

[omuerte]

I'm in favor of the base kit, and I'm in for at least 2 of the white (possibly a handful more) and 2 of the black. I'm also in for at least 1 of the black/white anti-caps kit.

Is it really just enter and backslash that we would need for the ISO->ANSI adapter kit?

I believe so, the only other things down in that area that need replacing are the right shift (already covered by the base kit?) and the modifiers.

[tsangan]

1 x left-shafted un-stepped capslock

That's not in it.............

3rd time today?

Or maybe you're just trolling me

[KylJoy]

No matter what the base ends up including, I just want to point something out:

[video=youtube;qItugh-fFgg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qItugh-fFgg[/video]

[tsangan]

Good discussion everyone.  Thanks tsangan for taking a pass at distilling these ideas into concrete sets.  I agree that a poll is not likely to be very useful.  I'll talk to Melissa this coming week.  That should help us decide what can fit into the base kit.

We're definitely sticking with the Windows logo (as opposed to an OS-agnostic symbol).  I imagine blanks will be cheap so we can probably offer those too.

I'm not hearing a lot of interest in 1.5x modifiers.  I agree that anti-capslock doesn't really fit under the moogle umbrella, but it seems like there's plenty of interest.  It'd require tweaking the caps lock legend since it's currently too wide to fit on a 1.25x key.

Is it really just enter and backslash that we would need for the ISO->ANSI adapter kit?

Yeah thats all the ISO -> ANSI needs

[hashbaz]

The_Ed, I'm sorry man but a flat, off-center caps lock is not in the cards for this buy unless a bunch more people are interested.

[The_Ed]

Would I be able to order a partial kit then?

[omuerte]

Would I be able to order a partial kit then?

What are you looking for out of the kit, maybe someone can trade you the keys you need?

Oh, just saw above- the menu and the 2x win keys. Personally, I like to use blanks for those so I might be able to help you out there and trade you those keys out of one of my black kits.

[tsangan]

Would I be able to order a partial kit then?

No

[Kisakuku]

It is fascinating to observe the special snowflake syndrome sufferers in their natural habitat.

[The_Ed]

6 x windows 1.25
3 x menu 1.25
3 x center-shafted un-stepped capslocks
(maybe) 3 x center-shafted stepped capslocks

[tsangan]

:smow:

[hashbaz]

Would I be able to order a partial kit then?

Sorry, but no.

[The_Ed]

"snowflake syndrome" -

Since each key is paid for separately when ordering from SP, it wouldn't cost anything extra to give me just these keys. Right?

6 x windows 1.25
3 x menu 1.25
3 x center-shafted un-stepped capslocks
(maybe) 3 x center-shafted stepped capslocks

[RColinTaylor]

"snowflake syndrome" -

Since each key is paid for separately when ordering from SP, it wouldn't cost anything extra to give me just these keys. Right?

6 x windows 1.25
3 x menu 1.25
3 x center-shafted un-stepped capslocks
(maybe) 3 x center-shafted stepped capslocks

Snowflake Syndrome is the name given to the sense of delusion that some people have when it comes to Group Buys. Most of these sufferers are those who feel that they can act outside of the buy's parameter and receive products either not featured or in a way not originally specified.

The pricing for these kits is received by the way that they are ordered. Kits, as this by offers, receives the price for what the kit will cost.

[hashbaz]

Since each key is paid for separately when ordering from SP, it wouldn't cost anything extra to give me just these keys. Right?

Even if this was true, making a special The_Ed kit just for you isn't fair, and isn't what I'm doing as group buy organizer.  If I allow you to pick and choose I have to allow everyone else to do the same.  There will be a base kit and some options.  You're either in or out.

[lowkey]

C) Some have been pushing for a full modifier set that includes tab, backspace, and enter as well, in order to maintain a consistent look.

I would definitely be interested in a whole set like this.

[tsangan]

"snowflake syndrome" -

Since each key is paid for separately when ordering from SP, it wouldn't cost anything extra to give me just these keys. Right?

6 x windows 1.25
3 x menu 1.25
3 x center-shafted un-stepped capslocks
(maybe) 3 x center-shafted stepped capslocks

Go contact SP and get them done for yourself :rofl:

Come report back with your pricing, please

[pitashen]

Even if this was true, making a special The_Ed kit just for you isn't fair, and isn't what I'm doing as group buy organizer.  If I allow you to pick and choose I have to allow everyone else to do the same.  There will be a base kit and some options.  You're either in or out.

Ya I don't think custom order will work out too well unless there will be guaranteed large orders for all the possible keys we talked about, such that we can custom our kit without affecting the overall pricing.

[litster]

I would like like a off-center stepped Enter key for my custom keyboard.

Sorry, I am trolling. :rofl:

[guilleguillaume]

No one reads what I post?

Tab, Backspace and Enter ALL requires legends fee. Not only that we don't know if cycloverid have time to make SVGs for us and due to high cost, I don't know who wants to get in on that. I DO NOT FEEL like its fair to include that in base kit, even though I also want those 3 keys but once people see the cost I think that will change.

I find quite annoying some times (not refering to you) that people is always interested in Group Buys but seems nobody wants to help when it comes to invest in legends fee or samples. Is like that ones that only post to say I'm interested only if we reach "X", they just join the party when all the effort is done to pay less but doesn't help to reach that lower cost.

Is it really just enter and backslash that we would need for the ISO->ANSI adapter kit?

Yeah thats all the ISO -> ANSI needs

As I said on the last thread:

"Keys from regular moogle kit are marked with a red cross and the keys marked with a blue cross are the ones that people who have ISO Cherry Doubleshots sets lack"

People who use Cherry doubleshots in ANSI keyboards taken from an ISO keyboard miss those 3 keys that I marked blue plus the keys that standard moogle kit has.

[litster]

I find quite annoying some times (not refering to you) that people is always interested in Group Buys but seems nobody wants to help when it comes to invest in legends fee or samples. Is like that ones that only post to say I'm interested only if we reach "X", they just join the party when all the effort is done to pay less but doesn't help to reach that lower cost.

A bunch of us chipped in for the Windows 8 logo for Rag's red on black 87-key set.  Before anyone asks, Moogle kit should have the old school Windows logo, not the new one, to stay true to Cherry's original design.

[RColinTaylor]

A bunch of us chipped in for the Windows 8 logo for Rag's red on black 87-key set.  Before anyone asks, Moogle kit should have the old school Windows logo, not the new one, to stay true to Cherry's original design.

What I really, really want is a custom Windows ME logo; that was the best OS of all time.

[lowkey]

Could someone tell me what people mean when they say a key would require custom legend fees or a custom legend?

[The_Ed]

Wow... Just wow... So... It doesn't cost anything extra, yet it is "unfair"... I'm not seeing anything unfair about it. You just order that many more of those keys and charge me the money for them. It's not "unfair", it is "nice". If I were the organizer of a GB, I would let everybody order ONLY the keys that they wanted. You can hold me to that word too.

I guess the only way you'd let me have any of those keys separately would be if a windows hater volunteered to let me buy them from their kit. And you just ship them to me instead of them. Or is that also "unfair"?

[tsangan]

People who use Cherry doubleshots in ANSI keyboards taken from an ISO keyboard miss those 3 keys that I marked blue plus the keys that standard moogle kit has.

ISO left shift is included in base kit, so those 2 keys (backslash and enter) will be required for the ISO-> ANSI conversion kit

Also I don't know how well this kit will fare once again due to legend cost and low interest.

[pitashen]

I would like like a off-center stepped Enter key for my custom keyboard.

Sorry, I am trolling. :rofl:

oh oh! I want center stepped capslock like this :

[litster]

Wow... Just wow... So... It doesn't cost anything extra, yet it is "unfair"... I'm not seeing anything unfair about it. You just order that many more of those keys and charge me the money for them. It's not "unfair", it is "nice". If I were the organizer of a GB, I would let everybody order ONLY the keys that they wanted. You can hold me to that word too.

I guess the only way you'd let me have any of those keys separately would be if a windows hater volunteered to let me buy them from their kit. And you just ship them to me instead of them. Or is that also "unfair"?

The_Ed, start your group buy already!

[RColinTaylor]

Could someone tell me what people mean when they say a key would require custom legend fees or a custom legend?

Signature Plastics has a "collection" of keys that they can make and have already made in the past. However, when it comes time to make a key with tooling that they have not yet created, they charge a fee depending on the complication of the keycap design. Generally it is between $20-30 for a new design.

[tsangan]

Wow... Just wow... So... It doesn't cost anything extra, yet it is "unfair"... I'm not seeing anything unfair about it. You just order that many more of those keys and charge me the money for them. It's not "unfair", it is "nice". If I were the organizer of a GB, I would let everybody order ONLY the keys that they wanted. You can hold me to that word too.

I guess the only way you'd let me have any of those keys separately would be if a windows hater volunteered to let me buy them from their kit. And you just ship them to me instead of them. Or is that also "unfair"?

Your GB would fail, hard

Oh wait it's just GB4 but with even more selection, lets see how well that would run

[RColinTaylor]

Wow... Just wow... So... It doesn't cost anything extra, yet it is "unfair"... I'm not seeing anything unfair about it. You just order that many more of those keys and charge me the money for them. It's not "unfair", it is "nice". If I were the organizer of a GB, I would let everybody order ONLY the keys that they wanted. You can hold me to that word too.

I guess the only way you'd let me have any of those keys separately would be if a windows hater volunteered to let me buy them from their kit. And you just ship them to me instead of them. Or is that also "unfair"?

That is the exact same approach that 7bit takes to running a group buy...

[pitashen]

If I were the organizer of a GB, I would let everybody order ONLY the keys that they wanted. You can hold me to that word too.

Ya I don't think custom order will work out too well unless there will be guaranteed large orders for all the possible keys we talked about, such that we can custom our kit without affecting the overall pricing.

Oh and, do feel free to organize your own group buy. If it turn out reasonably priced, I'll be in.

[litster]

This thread keeps bringing be back to my computer, stopping me from working on my acrylic keyboard group buy!

[tsangan]

This thread keeps bringing be back to my computer, stopping me from working on my acrylic keyboard group buy!

Can I have green/orange/purple acrylic instead of blue and red?

:rofl:

[lowkey]

Signature Plastics has a "collection" of keys that they can make and have already made in the past. However, when it comes time to make a key with tooling that they have not yet created, they charge a fee depending on the complication of the keycap design. Generally it is between $20-30 for a new design.

Thanks.

Personally the reason I would like to see a full set of modifiers and not just a "moogle" set is because I have noticed inconsistencies in the color and legends between the SP caps and original Cherry caps, so it would be nice to have them all the exact same color/same legend I suppose.

[litster]

Can I have green/orange/purple acrylic instead of blue and red?

:rofl:

only if it is stepped and off center.

[RColinTaylor]

only if it is stepped and off center.

Can I have mine as a non-acrylic but solid black case sort of like the Filco but with the Filco badging on the left side?

[tsangan]

Thanks.

Personally the reason I would like to see a full set of modifiers and not just a "moogle" set is because I have noticed inconsistencies in the color and legends between the SP caps and original Cherry caps, so it would be nice to have them all the exact same color/same legend I suppose.

Same reason why most of us want it too, the texture throws me wayyy off.

With that being said we still need cycloverid to make those SVGs if he has the time, and once again that's $90 in legend fees, how well this will do in terms of interest is hard to say

[litster]

Can I have mine as a non-acrylic but solid black case sort of like the Filco but with the Filco badging on the left side?

Sure.  If I let someone else pick and choose what they want, it is only fair to also let you pick and choose what you want.

[pitashen]

so it would be nice to have them all the exact same color/same legend I suppose.

This is everybody's wishes except it will be hard to guarantee unless we got someone who's near by signature plastic to make sure the color sample matches exactly.