Cherry revelation, not kidding.

[Whiskey in the Jar-o]

Sorry about your loss. Trust no one.

[mr_sf_applet]

Well, it's not really a loss, except for the left mouse button not working. Because, guess what? I sorta like the black linear Cherries. I would have kept this TouchBoard had it been in perfect working order. But after a few minutes experiencing the black linear Cherries for the first time, I am now more likely to order the Steelseries 7G.

[Whiskey in the Jar-o]

How do they compare with the other switches?  How noisy are they?

[xsphat]

I am going to buy one of the click Cherry boards new to end this ****.

Look, for 6 pages you guys have done everything in your power to try to convince me that every person I talk to about keyboards is a total back-woods, 7th generation inbred retard, so I give up. Look, the -0 at the end of the Cherry model number, only for US G80s, means click. -2 means linear, I thought this was established months ago. And I don't care what a damn German Cherry site says, they have different things for different markets, all international companies are like that, even the ones you guys talk to. And Micheal, owner of ErgoCanada, told me Cherry stiffs the North American markets because they are German elitists, but I am sure you guys will say he is a total ass-birth next because he talked to me, right? And then you'll back up your accusation with a Google translation of a blog post from Russia dated from 2002, right?

I was only trying to help.

[mr_sf_applet]

Look, the -0 at the end of the Cherry model number, only for US G80s, means click. -2 means linear, I thought this was established months ago.

See here:

http://www.cherry.de/english/products/documents/e_Datasheet_G80-11900_V09.pdf

for Cherry's numbering system for this model. Nothing about clicky vs. linear. Nothing about for US G80s only.

[xsphat]

See here:

http://www.cherry.de/english/products/documents/e_Datasheet_G80-11900_V09.pdf

for Cherry's numbering system for this model. Nothing about clicky vs. linear. Nothing about for US G80s only.

That says it is the Enlish version of the German product form. Check the contact info on the bottom when you don't believe me.

[mr_sf_applet]

How do they compare with the other switches?  How noisy are they?

They're practically silent, except for the clackiness of bottoming out (and if you have a light touch, I think it's possible to avoid bottoming out much of the time). They're clickless, of course. They remind me most of the brown soft-tactile Cherries. About the same travel, a bit stiffer, and with no tactile feedback. The ergocanada.com page on keyswitches is wrong when they say that light tactile keyswitches, of which they cite the brown Cherry switches as an example, "provide a small amount of click feedback (both audible and force)." Maybe there are other light tactile switches that are clicky, but the brown Cherries offer no audible click at all (except as provided by firmware in the Kinesis contoured boards). But the ergocanada.com page is right on when they say that "this tactility is often so slight that people will mistake the keyswitch for a linear keyswitch." This is indeed true of the brown-stemmed Cherry MX switches. And so the black-stemmed Cherries are probably closer to the brown-stemmed Cherries, with their very slight tactility, than they are to anything else.

I've only played with them for a few minutes, but I'm not sure why the black, linear Cherries have such a bad rep. Sure they're stiffer than the blue, clicky Cherries or the brown, soft-tactile Cherries, but they still require less force than the IBM buckling springs or the White Alps sliders on the Avant Stellar and on my version of the SMK-85. This may be a matter of taste more than anything else. The black Cherries don't strike me as being bad. Not bad at all. And as I said before, I'm now less hesitant about getting a Steelseries 7G.

[Whiskey in the Jar-o]

Thanks for the comprehensive report.  I think that the brown cherries would be the next switch for me to try... if they still make them, that is.  BTW, have you confirmed that 7g is basically the same as a Filco?

[mr_sf_applet]

BTW, have you confirmed that 7g is basically the same as a Filco?

No, I've made no such confirmation, but the striking resemblance is very intriguing.

If you examine the pictures of the Steelseries 7G, you'll see some differences though, both in styling and in features. The edges of the Majestouch case at the sides and the back have a straight, squared-off profile; the 7G, on the other hand, scoops out the lower portion of the edges so that the base is recessed from the top edge. Also, the 7G has microphone and headphone ports, plus two USB ports, along with multimedia controls (although I have no idea where the multimedia controls are). The Majestouch has none of these, nor does it have gold-plated plugs for everything like the 7G seems to. The 7G doesn't call it that, but from the description it obviously has N-key rollover. My version of the Majestouch has it too, but the basic version does not.

So there *are* differences. And yet... And yet, the basic footprints of the two boards seem identical. And if you compare the 7G with handrest attached with the brushed aluminum version of the Majestouch, once again the resemblance seems very suggestive.

And of course, they're both made in Taiwan. Strongman?

[mr_sf_applet]

So the story continues...

To recap, I have just gotten a Cherry TouchBoard keyboard, one of the G80-11900 boards, specifically, model nubmer G80-11900LUMEU-2: black, USB connection, US International layout (US layout with a Euro symbol added, as far as I can make out), black-stemmed linear Cherry switches, and a bum left-mouse button.

Here is the Cherry web page on the G80-11900 and its variants:

http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/keyboards/Industrial/11900/index.htm

And on that page is a link to the product data sheet:

http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/keyboards/pdf/CHE_213636_G80_11900_r1.pdf

You can draw your own conclusions about how the numbering system parses.

But I needed to do something about the non-working left mouse button of this new-in-open-box Cherry G80-11900, so I called the eBay seller today to arrange for a replacement or a refund. The guy I reached seemed reluctant to do anything, and said that since the keyboard is under the manufacturer's warranty, I should call Cherry. I didn't like his attitude at all, but I figured I should at least call Cherry before forcing the issue with the seller. I asked for contact info for Cherry, and he didn't have it, and that pissed me off even more, and I began to feel stranded with a keyboard with a non-functioning mouse button.

So I did some searching and decided that the number to call would be North American keyboard tech support (it's the number listed in the lower right hand corner of the web page for the G80-11900). I called and reached a guy named Ed. I told him my problem and he first suggested I contact the seller to get a replacement. His reasoning was that under the Cherry warranty I would need to send the keyboard in for repairs, and since this was a new keyboard just acquired, the preferable route would be to just get a replacement. I pointed out that it was the seller who passed me off to Cherry, that the seller seemed reluctant to go out of his way to do anything, and that he was unlikely to have another G80-11900LUMEU-2 in stock.

So Ed looked in his database and determined that they were currently out of stock for that particular model but that a new shipment should be coming in around January 11. I said I was willing to wait (left unsaid was that I preferred to deal directly with Cherry than to deal with that seller again). Ed said I should call back around January 11. I asked if I should ask specifically for him, and he said it didn't matter because he was the only person to answer that number. So I was speaking to the one person handling tech suport for Cherry keyboards for the entire North American continent.

I then sprang the $64,000 question on him, and asked if this keyboard only came with black, linear switches or if it was also available in clicky versions. Ed said that the G80-11900 only came with linear keyswitches. No clicky version at all. Was what Ed the North American Cherry keyboard tech support person said.

[Nonmouse]

Look, the -0 at the end of the Cherry model number, only for US G80s, means click. -2 means linear, I thought this was established months ago.

Well, not trying to be confrontational, but I'm >99.9% certain that the -0 and -2 numbers just refer to the case color.  -0 are light grey, -2 are black, and no extension are beige.

My G80-8113HRBUS-2 boards are black case, US market, with brown MX switches.  And the switches are light tactile feel, with a slight increase in force just before the keys activate, and a slight drop after, along with a very, very slight audible click at activation.  With the keycaps removed it's almost silent, and slightly (but only slightly) louder with the keycaps on.  The noise of the caps bottoming out is significantly louder than the activation point.

And, if anyone's interested, there's a keyboard on eBay with white (non-clicky, tactile feel) MX switches....

[xsphat]

Well, not trying to be confrontational, but I'm >99.9% certain that the -0 and -2 numbers just refer to the case color.  -0 are light grey, -2 are black, and no extension are beige.

Oops, my bad. I am not normally that snappy, but everyone has their limits. Thanks for the correction.

[pex]

Series recommendations (I gather this from gpkeyboards.pdf wherever I found it):

mx  - G80
ml  - G84
ftsc - G81
rubber dome sheet(?) - G83
- G86 (seeing CyMotion Expert keyboards  G86-22000 with this designation)
- G85 (seeing eVolution keyboard, G85-23010, CyMotion Pro G85-20050 keyboards with this designation)

It's possible the "G" is not important and simply stands for "General Purpose (series)".

Sacred keyboard switches are probably generally
MX1A?1NW
where ? is the code for switch type:

Code
   
Operating Characteristics, Actuating Force and Key Style
0
   
Special
1
   
Momentary, single-pole, 2.1 oz., standard keyswitch, black keystem
2
   
Momentary, single-pole, 2.8 oz., spaceba, grey 37 keystem
3
   
Alternate action, single-pole, 2.1 oz.
C
   
Momentary, single-pole, tactile feel, 2.3 oz., clear keystem
D
   
Momentary, single-pole, tactile feel, 2.8 oz., spacebar, grey 39 keystem
E
   
Momentary, single-pole, tactile feel, 2.1 oz., "click" differential movement, blue keystem
F
   
Momentary, single-pole, tactile feel, 2.8 oz., "click" differential movement, spacebar, green keystem

This begotten from http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm

However, where is white, what are these two different greys?  Can someone confirm this is the full color set?

[Nonmouse]

Series recommendations (I gather this from gpkeyboards.pdf wherever I found it):

mx  - G80
ml  - G84
ftsc - G81
rubber dome sheet(?) - G83
- G86 (seeing CyMotion keyboards with this designation)

It's possible the "G" is not important and simply stands for "General Purpose (series)".

Sacred keyboard switches are probably generally
MX1A?1NW
where ? is the code for switch type:

Code
   
Operating Characteristics, Actuating Force and Key Style
0
   
Special
1
   
Momentary, single-pole, 2.1 oz., standard keyswitch, black keystem
2
   
Momentary, single-pole, 2.8 oz., spaceba, grey 37 keystem
3
   
Alternate action, single-pole, 2.1 oz.
C
   
Momentary, single-pole, tactile feel, 2.3 oz., clear keystem
D
   
Momentary, single-pole, tactile feel, 2.8 oz., spacebar, grey 39 keystem
E
   
Momentary, single-pole, tactile feel, 2.1 oz., "click" differential movement, blue keystem
F
   
Momentary, single-pole, tactile feel, 2.8 oz., "click" differential movement, spacebar, green keystem

This begotten from http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm

However, where is white, what are these two different greys?  Can someone confirm this is the full color set?

I'm pretty sure that what they call 'clear' is what we call white- they are sort of translucent.  I'm not sure about the two different greys- I'm assuming that they are just different shades.  The MX-xx2xxx switch (grey 37 stem) is the linear action spacebar keyswitch, and the MX-xxDxxx switch (grey 39 stem) is the tactile feel spacebar keyswitch.  I just went and looked at the spacebar on my MX-8100 board, which has brown (tea axis) stems.  The spacebar stem is a very pale grey (#39, apparently), and the tactile feel is much more noticeable than on the other switches-it seems they don't make a tea axis spacebar switch.

[dw_junon]

The colour set also includes actuator type "G", the brown ("tea axis" colon D) "soft tactile feel" variant.  This, bizzarely is documented in the PDF on the link to Cherry's MX page given above.  But the PDF is poor as general reference, it lists only three acutator types, including misleading the click type "E" as type "3", type 3 currently apparently being (according to the html and to suppliers) an alternate action switch, not too appropriate for most keys on keyboards...

There may be other types still that are obsolete and undocumented by Cherry, not to mention what are apparently internal variants...

I'm pretty sure that what they call 'clear' is what we call white- they are sort of translucent.

Aha...  Thanks, I was wondering about that.