Have you guys tried Hako Violets? I like browns a lot and I feel like they are very nice.
The oldest MX browns from Cherry MX5000/1838 are the best Cherry switch ever made imo. I'm not a fan of browns found in boards more recent than those though.
The oldest MX browns from Cherry MX5000/1838 are the best Cherry switch ever made imo. I'm not a fan of browns found in boards more recent than those though.
And so the legend is perpetuated.
I've never seen a side-by-side comparison of 5000/1838 Browns and say, 11800 Browns, but would love to if anyone has the time/camera.
I've been in this community for around 8 years at this point (on my lurk account) and after going through 10+ keyboards and trying out a bunch more at meetups, I can safely say MX brown (or any of its variations) is still my favorite switch to type on.I agree with your comment about green tech browns.
I recently just got a board built with lubed greetech browns and my god they feel amazing. There's just something really pleasant and subtle about the non-distracting tactility of browns that makes them so fun and fast to type on.
I've been in this community for around 8 years at this point (on my lurk account) and after going through 10+ keyboards and trying out a bunch more at meetups, I can safely say MX brown (or any of its variations) is still my favorite switch to type on.
I recently just got a board built with lubed greetech browns and my god they feel amazing. There's just something really pleasant and subtle about the non-distracting tactility of browns that makes them so fun and fast to type on.
I've been in this community for around 8 years at this point (on my lurk account) and after going through 10+ keyboards and trying out a bunch more at meetups, I can safely say MX brown (or any of its variations) is still my favorite switch to type on.
I recently just got a board built with lubed greetech browns and my god they feel amazing. There's just something really pleasant and subtle about the non-distracting tactility of browns that makes them so fun and fast to type on.
I’ve been wanting to try greetech browns for a while now, do you know of a good source for them?
And so the legend is perpetuated.I think I still have my 11801, but I'm not entirely sure. I'll do a comparison next time I'm home if I can remember.
I've never seen a side-by-side comparison of 5000/1838 Browns and say, 11800 Browns, but would love to if anyone has the time/camera.
I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away :eek:
I'm going even deeper into the mx vintage brown love by getting a g80 5000, I won't harvest it but I'm excited to try them. I relubed my current Browns with 3203 and they are some of my favorite switches behind vint blacks now
Would also like to know this :)I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away :eek:
From which board/year?
Would also like to know this :)I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away :eek:
From which board/year?
I confuse people all the time with this amazing feeling switch setup... 67g golds, gateron brown - lubed and vinyl gaskets, zealencios.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/XKDmJ5x.jpg)
I remember that mechmarket post, so you're the lucky person :oWould also like to know this :)I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away :eek:
From which board/year?
Unfortunately I don't know, I got them off mech market on reddit, but 2 things to note is that they had the condoms over them that protect from dirt and dust and they had diodes (I've always had good experiences with diode filled switches)
Fine, I'll bite. For my next build I'll be using vintage Brown stems in retooled Blue housings. Wish me luck :p
Fine, I'll bite. For my next build I'll be using vintage Brown stems in retooled Blue housings. Wish me luck :p
I like browns at home but clears at work.
I actually threw my remaining Model M in the garbage and found the Model F to be fracking annoying noise-wise despite the nice typist feel. (Yeah, I know what using an actual typewriter is like. I played with Selectrics during my entire childhood.)
Some of what these gentlemen forget is that their ideal typing switch is itself limited when doing other tasks. Lambasting MX Browns for being a generalist switch for computing, WHICH IS WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE, is the epitome of biased, nonsensical criticism.
The oldest MX browns from Cherry MX5000/1838 are the best Cherry switch ever made imo. I'm not a fan of browns found in boards more recent than those though.
Love Browns we’re looking for a forum like this.
Only wish they were a touch clickier
Love the old browns, provided they don't have that ridiculously heavy green spacebar.
IS this thread relevant for MX Brown clones as well? I am liking my new Gateron Browns better than actual MX ones I've tried in the past. I honestly feel a slightly more tactile bump in the Gaterons and everything else feels the same. Not sure how durability will be though so time will tell.
Love Browns we’re looking for a forum like this.
Only wish they were a touch clickier
I've heard Brown stems in an MX Blue housing gives it a bit nore tactioity.
I'm also experimenting with lubing the legs on some MX Clears to reduce the tactility a little, seems promising.
Because the Gateron Brown has a slightly lighter spring than the MX Brown, both springs have the same length, but different no. of coils iirc.
The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.I legitimately don't see the potential benefit of not bottoming out. At least for me, trying to not bottom out requires way more effort compared to bottoming out.
I legitimately don't see the potential benefit of not bottoming out. At least for me, trying to not bottom out requires way more effort compared to bottoming out.
The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.
You're supposed to bottom out....If you can use just enough force to lightly bottom out that's great...but you shouldn't be holding up speed trying to not bottom out..it is a complete waste of time..
The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.I legitimately don't see the potential benefit of not bottoming out. At least for me, trying to not bottom out requires way more effort compared to bottoming out.
And I'm curious, how quickly is "quite quickly"?
After two to three weeks I manage to type with about 10-20% of the buttons bottoming out. Only when I think too long about typing a less used character I tend to bottom out hard. The rest of the time it is mostly a light touch or a soft bottom out. My speed is not high (50-55wpm), but it feels faster if I don't bottom out all the time
The "Cherry MX RBG Brown" that came in a switch tester recently is much smoother than the horribly scratchy MX Browns I have from about 5 years ago (Tensoro external number pad).
Sample size of a single switch so, take it with a grain of salt.
Has Cherry updated their molds for MX Browns? This one single instance feels like a totally different switch.
The "Cherry MX RBG Brown" that came in a switch tester recently is much smoother than the horribly scratchy MX Browns I have from about 5 years ago (Tensoro external number pad).
Sample size of a single switch so, take it with a grain of salt.
Has Cherry updated their molds for MX Browns? This one single instance feels like a totally different switch.
This isn't an answer to your question, but I've had a similar experience with MX Blacks. I have one from a switch tester that is perfectly smooth. No other MX Black switch or other linear switch I have compares. I don't know why it's so much better.
Sorry to dig up this old thread, but has anyone ever tried putting a Cherry MX Brown spring into a Gateron Brown switch?
I think the light Cherry springs (blue, red, brown) are ~62g? The Gateron Brown spring feels lighter overall, especially in the bottom out.
I put one switch together and it feels pretty nice. Wondering if anyone has ever tried a full board...
I'll probably build a kustom with 11800 browns soon™. Will report back if I like it or not.
I'll probably build a kustom with 11800 browns soon™. Will report back if I like it or not.
Interested to hear your take on it! Using my POM half plate with Browns on a thin h87a for work today. I’ve used Browns only on soft plates/no plate so far, but do have a spare aluminum plate here and some 11800 Browns. Might have to be build for this winter...
I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.
I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.
WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.
But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.
In a weird way the bump is better for gaming than typing (occasionally you'd want to know exactly when a key will actuate and the bump gives you feedback if you're pressing it slowly).I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.
I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.
WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.
But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.
It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed. The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing.
For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.
While they aren't really "Browns" I have found that I like the Hako True switches for my build. They have enough of a bump that one can tell that a switch got hit, but not enough to feel harsh or in the way. And I like the way there is a positive curve on the force after the bump. While it won't keep me form allways bottoming out, it does help slow down your finger before you hit bottom. I think part of the reason that people are so concerned with bottoming out is that the need to bottom out on a rubber dome switch is probably one of the things that make them so horrible to use in the long run.
I came at this project after a couple of months of using a Model M at home during the lock down and I wanted something that felt comfortable yet would be less antagonizing in an office environment. Honestly, most of the "clicky" switches are kind of Meh compared to a buckling spring. Yes, you get the racket, but what most people don't recognize is that the "click" in a buckling spring is inherently synchronized to the switch actuation, unlike a blue or even a click bar switch where you are relying on the tolerance between the external event and a small bump on the stem of the switch.
I am probably in a minority of people who actually prefer a slightly heavier switch, but that is the beauty of this hobby. Rather then being stuck with whatever some marketing guy thought would sell, we can built exactly what works for us.
In a weird way the bump is better for gaming than typing (occasionally you'd want to know exactly when a key will actuate and the bump gives you feedback if you're pressing it slowly).I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.
I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.
WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.
But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.
It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed. The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing.
For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.
The strength of browns IMO is that the feedback is easy to ignore when it isn't important, and doesn't require you to slam through a giant bump everytime (I found Zilents to be obnoxious because it was all bump so it was 3mm of travel everytime, and no travel before or after the bump). There is a big difference between typing to avoid bottoming out and being required to bottom out everytime, but both seem exhausting.
Personally I've started to prefer the Otemu Browns over the Cherry Browns, feel a bit smoother - could still benefit from a lube and filming either way. I have them in my board I have for work - a inexpensive Velocifire TKL01 (think I only paid $30 for it). The MX-browns that were in my iKBC Poker II were extremely scratchy, fortunately those are now desoldered and in a bag in my desk for me to use them for something else.
^ Might have to sample theses, I know I should tear down my Velocifire with the Otemu's since they do have a good amount of wobble, a bit 'o lube and some .15mm films should clean that up a bit. I've debated on taking the MX Brown stems and swapping them into a linear housing just to mess around and see how it performs, but of course the only linear switches I have apart right now are my Mito Laser switches - was leaning more towards using something like a NK Dry/Silk housing.
If you discount browns for the lack of tactility, then you do not understand the point of the switch as a whole.
Interesting video - this guy has a theory about hate for Browns. You know how everyone was recommended MX Brown back in the day? He thinks that people went out and bought the most 'affordable' keyboard to access Browns, and often they were poorly-built gaming keyboards. That soured them on Browns. So it's a board build-quality issue.
However, I don't think that's the main factor. I think he's half-right. Lots and lots of people were told to get MX Browns. So they did. But if they were looking for a "tactile" switch, the Browns would not have been enough.
This has been discussed before, but I think it's a 'false advertising' issue. Marketing these switches as 'tactiles' was a mistake that caused hate.
So my view is that the subtleties that make a Ducky better [and especially a Varmilo or Leopold] won't be immediately apparent in a store, when compared to a Corsair.
Interesting video - this guy has a theory about hate for Browns. You know how everyone was recommended MX Brown back in the day? He thinks that people went out and bought the most 'affordable' keyboard to access Browns, and often they were poorly-built gaming keyboards. That soured them on Browns. So it's a board build-quality issue.
However, I don't think that's the main factor. I think he's half-right. Lots and lots of people were told to get MX Browns. So they did. But if they were looking for a "tactile" switch, the Browns would not have been enough.
This has been discussed before, but I think it's a 'false advertising' issue. Marketing these switches as 'tactiles' was a mistake that caused hate.
There's some truth in this video—I recently built a Klippe S with Cherry browns and love typing on it. I know nothing about the Ducky he upgraded to other than seeing it online. Is it really that big of an upgrade from the Corsair?
I just got a ducky shine 7 with the "hyperglide" 100 MIO MX Browns in them. They feel and sound amazing(maybe because they're new?). No ping or crunch, very very smooth, negligible wobble in the housing and stem compared to the drop halos and gats I got in my sample sets.
Browns good
I've been using my SteelSeries 6gv2 mxbrown for 4 months, and yesterday my "control" start double clicking. Any fixes or suggestions?
Personally if people are averse to bottoming out they'd be much better off getting something like Topre or NIZ.I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.
I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.
WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.
But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.
It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed. The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing.
For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.
I don't hate MX browns and understand that some people might want a smaller tactile event, but I think even something like damped alps creams which are really easy to get are far more enjoyable in my opinion. Or even better as mentioned a low force Topre or NIZ. In my opinion it'd be better than mixing housings or trying to find "vintage" browns.
It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed. The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing.
For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.
Not bottoming out with full force as in light bottoming out...has nothing to do with browns or subconscious registering of the tactile event..people might associate it with the tactile event but really, it has nothing to do with that.
You can lightly bottom out with a lot of different switches, including linear..
I don't know if this is true but IMO, the tactility is something you might be expecting so it keeps you in a rhythm....In otherwords if you mixed in a pure linear switch, you'd notice that you wouldn't be getting feedback and it would feel strange, it might even throw you off. But that rhythm is why people might type slightly faster on browns than say, reds, even though they hate browns and prefer reds...
Not bottoming out with full force as in light bottoming out...has nothing to do with browns or subconscious registering of the tactile event..people might associate it with the tactile event but really, it has nothing to do with that.
You can lightly bottom out with a lot of different switches, including linear..
I don't know if this is true but IMO, the tactility is something you might be expecting so it keeps you in a rhythm....In otherwords if you mixed in a pure linear switch, you'd notice that you wouldn't be getting feedback and it would feel strange, it might even throw you off. But that rhythm is why people might type slightly faster on browns than say, reds, even though they hate browns and prefer reds...
I dont think anyone claimed that you couldn't lightly bottom out on other switches. The claim is simply that its not something they ever focused on, and they seem to move into that way of typing when using it without consciously making an effort to do it.
They didn't say you couldn't but it is suggested by suggesting that the reason you can do it with browns is because you're subconsciously aware of the tactility. The fact that you can just as easily lightly bottom out with most other switches suggests none of that is true.
Maybe I still need more coffee, but I'm a bit confused by this last comment. I'm not sure what you're referring to, "suggests none of that is true." None of which is true? The idea that 'many' people report lighter bottom out on Browns? Or the idea that it's possible to have a light bottom out on 'many' other switches? Or something else?They didn't say you couldn't but it is suggested by suggesting that the reason you can do it with browns is because you're subconsciously aware of the tactility. The fact that you can just as easily lightly bottom out with most other switches suggests none of that is true.
Since we're talking opinions here, my opinion is that people tend to make due with whatever keyboard they have in front of them. Some feel better than others, and some promote faster/more accurate typing than others.
My personal experience is that I type faster with lighter (perceived) bottom out on Browns than I do on heavier tactiles. I also prefer a light bump over a linear for office productivity. If you can get the typing experience you want with "most other switches" then celebrate diversity and the fact you're switch agnostic. At the same time, I don't think you'll convince people who like Browns that 'many' other switches can be an effective substitute, just like people who like linears or heavy tactiles won't be convinced light tactiles are the way to go.
PS - This is the <3 Brown thread, not the "you can... lightly bottom out on most other switches" thread. Maybe hit Unpopular Keyboard Opinions (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65341.0)? :D
As for topre, I've had to switch entirely to linears and light tactile MX specifically because topre is too tactile for my hand pain.
You're confused on why we like browns.
@hungermechanic: i totally appreciate your posts on keebtalk when it comes to ‘light tactiles’. ordered some 62g u4’s and also some 55g (long) TX springs to test.
@dalexsnail: i’m really hoping to support oxbloods
@nooneinparticular (that’s a joke) my kailh silent box browns still are not clicky (that’s no lie). unmodded.
I was inspired by all these posts to try Greetech Browns for for my 7v build.
'
The spacebar still needs some tuning but overall I think it sounds nice.
Nice! I’ve still yet to try Browns on anything smaller than a TKL. Maybe some day.
I’ve got some Pewters on the way too. It sounds like they’re the true second-coming of Browns, so we’ll see. Not sure what I’ll put them in yet.
Personally Topre has me covered in the medium-light tactility department simply because of the force curve and noise level, it requires almost no effort to hold down compared to any cherry switch and since alps are rare/difficult to obtain it will have to suffice. And not making any sound in voice chat is a bonus. This makes them prime for gaming in particular. But I do have some Kailh Polias incoming so my opinion on brown type switches could change
I've never cared about ergonomics of keyboards because in over 30 years of heavy computing I've not once had any kind of rsi or strain or hand fatigue. Until this year when I put glorious pandas into my keyboard. After a few months I realised my knuckles were starting to hurt from the rock hard bottoming out. I honestly feel like those switches might have given me arthritis eventually. I've since replaced them with 'silenced' switches, but am currently looking at browns and Brown-likes as well.
To test out a new keyboard I put some "glorious pandas" I had sitting around in to give it a workout. Damn, those lumpy things make my fingers tired! Brown is fine, thanks. ;)
Anyways I'm using my old Poker 3 with lubed Browns in a Tex case and I'm loving it. It really is a pleasure to use. I'm also finding that my typing is more accurate. I'm not sure why, but maybe because of the longer switch action? 4mm vs 2.8 or 3, whatever the Kailh Box and Speed Switches are. I'll post an image. It's a sharp looking board. I never upgraded the caps because I really like the Pok3r caps.
The one thing that's lacking today is Browns produced with modern equipment and techniques using fresh molds, so that you can experience what Cherry intended.
These are Hyperglide Browns, my man :cool:
These are Hyperglide Browns, my man :cool:
I like Hyperglide Browns. At least the fresh ones.
They have a good typing feel. There still is that Cherry scratchiness, and they sound atrocious. There are also said to be housing issues that deviate from classic Cherry, causing interference with GMK keycaps.
So I wouldn't say that they are manufactured 100% perfectly, but they are nice Browns to type on.
Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.
Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.
Every board is a browns board, CMV.
I used to be a huge fan of MX Brown when I first started in this. As I was introduced to newer switches the Browns fell out of favor with me. There were many better clones that hit the scene. The board with the Browns went into the closet for a while. A year or two later I took it out and decided to lube it. I did go a little heavy and I also lubed the legs, but it was an entirely different switch. The lube dulled the tactile bump, but as the lube wore away it did come back. The switch now has a little more resistance and it sounds and feels totally different. The only negative to lubing it is that it is not as responsive. MX do very well with lubrication. My favorite switches are Kailh Box, but there is so little of the switch that comes into contact with the housing that there is no benefit gained from lubing.
Anyways I'm using my old Poker 3 with lubed Browns in a Tex case and I'm loving it. It really is a pleasure to use. I'm also finding that my typing is more accurate. I'm not sure why, but maybe because of the longer switch action? 4mm vs 2.8 or 3, whatever the Kailh Box and Speed Switches are. I'll post an image. It's a sharp looking board. I never upgraded the caps because I really like the Pok3r caps.
I just purchased a Leopold FC210TP, and besides the stupid thing not working for some games and programs, the Browns used were VERY inconsistent. Varying levels of tactility and resistance.
Anyways I'm using my old Poker 3 with lubed Browns in a Tex case and I'm loving it. It really is a pleasure to use. I'm also finding that my typing is more accurate. I'm not sure why, but maybe because of the longer switch action? 4mm vs 2.8 or 3, whatever the Kailh Box and Speed Switches are. I'll post an image. It's a sharp looking board. I never upgraded the caps because I really like the Pok3r caps.
I've yet to hear from anyone who doesn't type faster, more accurately, or both with browns after giving them a fair shot.
Testing hyperglide browns side by side with hyperglide blacks, both with the same internal tuning(55g tx short spring, thick lube, deskkeys films), it's like night and day for me.
The tactility is pronounced enough when side by side to linears that I can appreciate the balance cherry nailed with the bump. Had I not had a linear board right beside this one I wouldn't even really notice the tactility when typing longer blocks of stuff. I've found that the tactility is just present enough that I know it's there, but it isn't in the way, if that makes sense.
QuoteI like Hyperglide Browns. At least the fresh ones.
They have a good typing feel. There still is that Cherry scratchiness, and they sound atrocious. There are also said to be housing issues that deviate from classic Cherry, causing interference with GMK keycaps.
So I wouldn't say that they are manufactured 100% perfectly, but they are nice Browns to type on.
If you land on a good batch I can %100 vouch for them. Have some 55g tx spring swapped ones in a matrix 2.0 (non add) and it's honestly just as good as my vint browns with kbdmod 55g springs, if not a slight bit better?
The kind of cherry picking and lottery rolling you have to do with them isnt worth it imo, when vints are a bit more consistent overall, but they're damn good if you get the right ones.
Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.
QuoteI like Hyperglide Browns. At least the fresh ones.
They have a good typing feel. There still is that Cherry scratchiness, and they sound atrocious. There are also said to be housing issues that deviate from classic Cherry, causing interference with GMK keycaps.
So I wouldn't say that they are manufactured 100% perfectly, but they are nice Browns to type on.
If you land on a good batch I can %100 vouch for them. Have some 55g tx spring swapped ones in a matrix 2.0 (non add) and it's honestly just as good as my vint browns with kbdmod 55g springs, if not a slight bit better?
The kind of cherry picking and lottery rolling you have to do with them isnt worth it imo, when vints are a bit more consistent overall, but they're damn good if you get the right ones.
Also protip, 2.0 pre ADD matrix is a browns board, and nobody can convince me otherwise.
This guy put 72 G Progressive Vint Browns in a JER J80S:Show Image(https://preview.redd.it/dkm6kew9h1w71.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9334a0f358b3d76438da315bff5ef5d2d7265545)
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/qh3qu3/handarbeit_just_makes_everything_look_even_better/
Does it get any better than this [aside from Handarbeit keycaps]?
It gets better with a lighter spring weight :cool:
I think browns really excel with a light spring (below 62g bottom-out) and a light typist. If you're heavy-handed or like heavy springs, I imagine the tactility would barely register.
MoreI'd like to help, but I have only limited experience with these variants.
I tested about 10 Hyperglides when they came out. Feel-wise, they are okay, and go well with GMK keycaps.
However, they sounded very gritty. Also, there have been sporadic reports that Hyperglide housings are kinda messed-up, dimensionally-speaking. They may have interference with Cherry-profile, specifically GMK. However, anytime anyone sits down to investigate this, they can't find the problem. So it may not exist.
The original retooled Browns, when they came out circa 2017, received rave reviews. They were less-scratchy than the older 2012-2016 era pre-tooled Browns. And the tactile bump seemed more well-defined. I personally think that good retooled Browns may be the best modern Browns. I don't have experience with any switches specifically labelled as such, but a relative has a Varmilo custom store TKL from 2018 that has relatively good Browns in it. They feel 'clean' and 'clear,' and the tactile bump is thin but fairly-defined.
In terms of availability and convenience, I would be tempted to get so-called "Butter Browns." They are usually Hyperglides given a half-million or so actuations. Sure, they cost more. But are you likely to find something as good or better in a reasonable amount of time? You can even get a lubed and filmed variant from Loobed Switches, although that is expensive.
Some of the early Hyperglides were good, and came in Ducky One 2 keyboards, if memory serves.
I guess one would have to buy a small bag of Hyperglides or retooled from AliExpress or something, and if they are good, buy more and continue with the work on them.
Personally, I would consider alternatives to Browns.
SP Star Meteor Orange are like some of the better Browns, as they are less scratchy than average, and have an 'icepick' like small but defined bump. They really improve with films and careful 3204. You can even use Cherry top-housings for a more Cherry-like nylon sound. I have a board like this, very good.
KTT Mallo are modeled after MX Brown. But they are KTT manufactured, so almost no scratch. The problem is, an MX Brown bump made from smooth moulds is almost linear. It is very soft. Like a marshmallow. You can get them with stock 55 G springs, which are fine. You have to lube at least the springs and leaf-area to remove extraneous noise. The factory-lube is very good for function, but not sound.
AKKO POM Brown are relatively new, and less is known about them. Some think that they are a little more tactile than MX Brown. I don't like the stock sound, the switches need lubing. They are obviously smoother than MX Browns.
So those are some things to consider. I would get into a position to 'try before you buy' with some samples, and find Browns that suit you. Replacing the Cherry springs with 55 G is a step in the right direction. If you want really poppy MX Browns, you can use 55 G 18mm mStone springs from AliExpress. They really powered the new Ergo Clears when I tried it. They're almost like those 63.5 G ThiccThocc DL springs.
You might want to check around this timestamp in the following thread for discussion of mounting styles:
https://www.keebtalk.com/t/light-tactile-switch-comparision/14773/66?u=hungermechanic
MX Brown with TX 65g M (standard height) springs. Lubed only the springs with TX oil.
Trying to get them a bit broken in before I lube them. I think the 65g springs are a bit too heavy for the switch, but it doesn't steal any of it's characteristics. If they'll bother me in any way after a few months I might consider a 62g swap. Will see.
In terms of availability and convenience, I would be tempted to get so-called "Butter Browns." They are usually Hyperglides given a half-million or so actuations. Sure, they cost more. But are you likely to find something as good or better in a reasonable amount of time? You can even get a lubed and filmed variant from Loobed Switches, although that is expensive.
I participated in some machine-actuation of MX Browns and other switches. Far fewer than 500,000 actuations were used, as those kinds of numbers can do damage. (Yes, the "Butter Browns" probably use too many actuations.)
I wasn't really impressed by machine-actuation results. Cherry switches, in particularly, did not improve much. But it is the case that worn-in MX Browns are much nicer to use than mediocre, stock ones.
Ultimately, you are justified in breaking-in switches by hand. The best thing to do with MX Browns would be break them in by hand, and then spring-swap them with lubed aftermarket springs. Lubing and filming the switches is optional. Then, put them in your choice of build. Personally, I think top-mount and polycarb/POM would be optimal.
Yes, I was going to say, if going for crispness and consistency, use top-mount. For a softer feel, gasket should be fine.
Polycarb and POM are good materials for light-tactiles. Sometimes, though, a switch is so light [e.g. 55 G Mallo] that the metal plate can give it more authority. If the switch is smooth and lubed properly, an alum plate won't be so harsh.
The highest common weight I see used with MX Browns is 63.5 G 15mm. So 62 G is entirely reasonable in this context. You may wish to consider 14mm 62 G springs, which are enough to power the spacebar on some Ergo Clear builds.
In short, if you want 65 G, I recommend building Ergo Clears or something similar [there are many choices these days.] For Browns, I would say that 55 - 63.5 G springs are the most common weights.
Large-bump tactiles can be scratchy. I think that the stronger tactile leaf can lead to greater noise and scratch. Plus, stronger springs tend to be louder.*
But it doesn't have to be this way. Some well-built large tactiles are very smooth. For example, Holy Bobas [Halo stem in Boba housing] are pretty smooth. You only really need to lube the stem. With 3204 or 205g0. And spring, of course.
So I think heavy-tactile scratch in large part is a result of poor manufacturing practices. If you try the new MMD Princess, which are extraordinarily cheap, they are built fairly smooth, and I wouldn't characterize them as 'scratchy.'
55 G light-tactiles isn't so bad. KTT Mallo is ok in that weight. But I agree that, in Brown-like switches, it's dangerous to go lightweight. Strangely, it seems to work fine with a lot of heavy-tactiles. Like HPs, U4T, and U4. I think it's because the large tactile bump still contributes a lot to the peak weight/force of the switch, despite the weaker spring. [And powerful 55 G L springs work very well with T1s, Ergo Clears, etc...]
Anyway, 55 G Browns would work, although that isn't a good weight for Cherry in my experience. Maybe 55 G 14mm TX, as some people have recommended. 63.5 G is popular as a heavy Brown, it seems to be good with light-tactiles. 55 G Ergo Clears work surprisingly-well. You might want to try TTC Watermelon Milkshake or Golden Brown V2 - 3 as examples of somewhat heavier Browns. Durock also uses 67 G as standard weight in Durock Light Tactile. It's excessive, IMHO, but maybe TTC strikes a better middle-ground.
55 G linears work. There's WS Yellow, which I think is around that weight. I liked it better than 55 G Cherry Brown. Akko Cream Yellow V3 Pro is around 50 G 18mm. For weights like this in tactiles, I think 52 G OUTEMU springs are okay with Silent Sky stems in smooth linear housings.
*I think that light-tactiles are actually more vulnerable to manufacturing imperfections and design flaws. Because any deviation from linear and limited-bump will be noticed. Any deviation from the ideal push-feel stands out.
Look how hard it is to find a decent out-of-box Brown. Conversely, there are several more tactile switches that are fine or even good out-of-box. Any small thing that goes wrong on a light-tactile is noticeable. They require skill to perfect.