Author Topic: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D  (Read 5318 times)

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Offline juguerre

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Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 15:59:33 »
Hi guys,
After using browns for several months I decided to follow some advice (thank you by the way!) and finally got a Ducky TKL G2 Pro with clears. I just feel browns too soft and I bottom out all the time. So I'm typing now on mx-clears and the feel ... Is wonderful. After a week of use I can tell why there is some discussion about the stiffness of clears compared to blacks etc. Yes, maybe these clears are stiffer than blacks but only is you try to bottom out. There is a really evident tactile feel that you can use to stop pressing the switch. This, along with the fact that there is a lot of resistance in the last part of the force curve makes easier to not bottom out with clears than with rest of the switches I tried in the past (blacks, blues, browns, topre).
Now I'm thinking about trying topre 55g (OMG  :confused:) because to use ergonomic topre (at work) after using clears (at home) is really difficult. Is something like being an elephant trying to touch type.

So, is there someone with experience with 55g topres and clears? What do you think? ;D

Realforce 105 variable (at work)     Ducky G2Pro ISO TKL Mx-Clear    Realforce 87 55g (home)

Offline Pacifist

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 16:02:51 »
to use ergonomic topre (at work) after using clears (at home) is really difficult.

There's ergo topre?

Offline avtar

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 16:08:19 »
to use ergonomic topre (at work) after using clears (at home) is really difficult.

There's ergo topre?

OP is probably referring to variable weighting.

I've tried MX blues and browns so far. Do clears feel stiffer than blues?

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 16:08:35 »
Thanks to my recent visit to VesperSAINT, I have now tried 55g topre, 45g topre, 62g lubed ergo-clear, 62g ergo-clear, and stock clears. [ And by lubed, I mean proper WFD-style lubrication including oiled springs. This makes a huge difference and really gives you a nice soft bottom out on MX. ]

Honestly, lubed 62g clears are VERY similar to topre in my opinion. Topre is just a bit more cushioned at the bottom along with the tactile point being earlier in the keypress.

In my experience, I wouldn't mind having either one. Naturally I lean towards MX because of the keycap and case aftermarket, but I am also keen on looking out for a limited edition rf board.

I may write out a more detailed review on these popular tactiles later on :]

There's ergo topre?
I think he means variable weighted topre, which puts different springs in different keys for a more ergonomic layout.


Offline avtar

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 16:12:40 »
Thanks to my recent visit to VesperSAINT, I have now tried 55g topre, 45g topre, 62g lubed ergo-clear, 62g ergo-clear, and stock clears. [ And by lubed, I mean proper WFD-style lubrication including oiled springs. This makes a huge difference and really gives you a nice soft bottom out on MX. ]

This sounds great. I would like to find MX switches that would be the equivalent of being between 45g and 55g Topre switches. Is there anything close to that?

I may write out a more detailed review on these popular tactiles later on :]

Please do!

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 16:21:01 »
This sounds great. I would like to find MX switches that would be the equivalent of being between 45g and 55g Topre switches. Is there anything close to that?

This is an interesting question because I definitely felt like the travel distance was shorter on Topre keys. Less travel means less momentum and thus I didn't feel much of a weighting difference between 45g Topre and 62g Clear MX. All three felt very comfortable, and at the time of testing I loved them all so much I couldn't pick a favorite.

The difference between 45g Topre and 55g Topre is only casually noticeable towards bottom out. 55g doesn't necessarily feel "heavier." It's more like 55g feels more cushioned somehow. Felt premium :D

Edit: And even if travel on topre and MX were the same, Topre still has the characteristic of having an earlier tactile point. This means less momentum to break the "tactility barrier". So that's probably why it felt like less travel.

Edit Edit: Sorry, didn't actually answer your question. I meant to say that 62g Clear actually does feel lighter than 55g Topre. Is it "heavier" than 45g Topre? I found them pretty similar and the difference in weighting was not too significant.

Note: All references to clear MX in this post refer to clears with lubed stems and oiled springs.
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 April 2014, 16:28:36 by Lastpilot »

Offline Pacifist

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 16:32:02 »
This sounds great. I would like to find MX switches that would be the equivalent of being between 45g and 55g Topre switches. Is there anything close to that?

This is an interesting question because I definitely felt like the travel distance was shorter on Topre keys. Less travel means less momentum and thus I didn't feel much of a weighting difference between 45g Topre and 62g Clear MX. All three felt very comfortable, and at the time of testing I loved them all so much I couldn't pick a favorite.

The difference between 45g Topre and 55g Topre is only casually noticeable towards bottom out. 55g doesn't necessarily feel "heavier." It's more like 55g feels more cushioned somehow. Felt premium :D

Edit: And even if travel on topre and MX were the same, Topre still has the characteristic of having an earlier tactile point. This means less momentum to break the "tactility barrier". So that's probably why it felt like less travel.

Edit Edit: Sorry, didn't actually answer your question. I meant to say that 62g Clear actually does feel lighter than 55g Topre. Is it "heavier" than 45g Topre? I found them pretty similar and the difference in weighting was not too significant.

Note: All references to clear MX in this post refer to clears with lubed stems and oiled springs.

so lubed clears or topre? Which one do you like better?

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 16:44:58 »
That's the million dollar question isn't it?

I find MX EVER SO SLIGHTLY more appealing, but in all honesty, this may be a product of my bias of being against stock rubber dome keyboards which share the early tactile point with Topre.

For me, all three of them are winners.

-----------------------

Edit: I just realized I didn't answer the OP question.

Stock clears are nothing like Topre.

Stock clears have a hard bottom out with a loud noise and a rigid [almost sticky] tactile bump.
Topre has a soft bottom out with little noise and a very smooth bump.

Honestly, I do not think you will find a huge difference switching to 55g Topre, especially if you are used to stock clear MX switches. It will still feel like a world of difference when you go back to your MX board.

But then again, I am not a "touch" typist. I bottom out on every hit. So your mileage may vary. LOL sorry I hope this information is somehow helpful to you. Derp.
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 April 2014, 16:57:25 by Lastpilot »

Offline Latin00032

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 16:55:20 »
I'm still on the fence with modding my clears.

I don't know if I should use 62g or 65g.

I keep thinking that I would prefer it slightly heavier than slightly lighter.

Everyone seems to stick with 62g though.

Offline avtar

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 18:10:47 »
I meant to say that 62g Clear actually does feel lighter than 55g Topre. Is it "heavier" than 45g Topre?

This I like.

Stock clears have a hard bottom out with a loud noise and a rigid [almost sticky] tactile bump.

But this not so much :/ I really need to try 62g clears soon and see for myself.

Offline cannonking

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 18:28:11 »
I want 62g Ergo Clears for my next board. I'm finding it hard to 'trust' other people's opinions though because I looooove Browns and everyone else seems to hate them. Can anybody who likes Browns compare them?

Offline strict

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 19:45:04 »
I seriously *love* stock clears. I used reds daily for almost 8 months before my Phantom was finished and I think that time was valuable to further my appreciation of stock clears. My fingers were conditioned to type lightly enough that I almost never bottom out on stock clears. I tried 65g springs (unlubed) on all the alpha keys and found I did not like it as much.

Honestly, my only complaint is that the clear switches I used were new and still kind of scratchy. I plan to use them for a couple more months to let them really break-in before I Krytox them.

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Offline Pacifist

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 19:46:39 »
a bit OT but another question about clears. I heard that breaking them in before lubing is good, is that true?

Offline Flossed

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 19:48:36 »
Where'd you get a TKL board with clears? I've been looking for one for a while now!  :eek:

Offline Jalberstone

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 19:52:07 »
Could you post a picture of your new board? I've never seen/heard about this before.

Offline Pacifist

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 19:53:06 »
Could you post a picture of your new board? I've never seen/heard about this before.

Its not really rare, its a ducky and one of the top boards recommended when people look for stock clears, that and the CODE

Offline Defect

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 20:38:06 »
I want 62g Ergo Clears for my next board. I'm finding it hard to 'trust' other people's opinions though because I looooove Browns and everyone else seems to hate them. Can anybody who likes Browns compare them?

I did a few tests with various springs (stock brown, 62g, 65g, stock black, stock clear) and I find that with very light springs,  clears stick on the way up.  The bump is too big for such a weak spring.  This would explain why browns exist but clears are not available in the 45g spring group (red/blue/brown).

When you get to lubed 62g or 65g and up, clears are the winner.  Clears begin their ramp up at the very top of the key press, whereas browns' bump start as you approach the midpoint.  In this regard I prefer browns.  However, as far as how the bump feels, browns really are just uncomfortable reds once you have been exposed to clears.  Clears are just superior by FAR when it comes to tactile bump (I have to add here that this is my OPINION.  Your experience may vary :)).  To put it in perspective, I find that the bump in clears make them more tactile than blues.  They just don't click with that jumping bean mechanism.


I saw some mention of topre vs ergo clear as well, and I do not want to derail this thread but my opinion is that you really cannot compare the two.  Topre is nice and it feels smoother (for lack of better word) and feels higher quality than MX.  I still love my MX.  I would explain it as...you wouldn't take a Rolls Royce out on a track.

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Offline Panoptic

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 23 April 2014, 14:16:00 »
Where'd you get a TKL board with clears? I've been looking for one for a while now!  :eek:

I have a Leopold FC200RT with Clears I'm considering unloading if you're interested.  Once I switched to Greens I haven't wanted to type on any other Cherry switches.

Offline juguerre

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 23 April 2014, 14:54:04 »
Hi,
Thank you all. I'm always happy to learn from you guys.

Where'd you get a TKL board with clears? I've been looking for one for a while now!  :eek:

I get my ducky from a sale at teraset.com (Finish site). I'm afraid it was the last one with clears but it's true that is not very rare to find some at sale: This is a leopold at ebay for example.  :thumb:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291046512169?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
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Offline tricheboars

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 24 April 2014, 11:07:13 »
i use stock clears on my ergodox and i love them.  the stiffness of stock clears is greatly exaggerated in my opinion. 

blues and clears are my favorite mx switches.  neither tire me out like BS.

i may mod my clears eventually.  but i wont swap out the springs. i will simply lube them with some krytox i got from originitive.
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Offline Oobly

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 24 April 2014, 13:56:39 »
I want 62g Ergo Clears for my next board. I'm finding it hard to 'trust' other people's opinions though because I looooove Browns and everyone else seems to hate them. Can anybody who likes Browns compare them?

I love Browns, but prefer 62g ErgoClears. I kind of like stock Clears, especially for the way the force changes through the stroke so it helps prevent bottoming out, but they're just a bit too hard for my taste for long typing sessions and sometimes when I'm typing fast I will miss a letter or two. I have a pretty light touch when typing. Browns are nice and light and I like the subtle bump, it's just enough to help me feel when the switch actuates and adds something to the experience, I don't mistype with Browns, but I do with Reds. ErgoClears are just awesome, though.

a bit OT but another question about clears. I heard that breaking them in before lubing is good, is that true?

Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Both Browns and Clears seem to be rather scratchy when new (at least the ones I have received, apparently sometimes you get lucky and get a batch of smooth ones), so they need some use to smoothen out BEFORE you lube them. If you lube them immediately, the scratchy feeling is diminished, but never goes away.

So it's a good idea to mod used Clears rather than new, or use 62g springs and lube them only after they're worn in, although that requires you to open them up twice.
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Offline Firebolt1914

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 24 April 2014, 14:00:32 »
Slight derail, but where would I be able to buy an MX Clear keyboard? I know that qtan has Leopolds in Clear, but I was wondering about other options.

Offline daerid

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 25 April 2014, 15:16:57 »
Being an avid and avowed Topre fanboy, my favorite Cherry MX switch is stock clear.

And that's about all I have to say about that.

Offline robertsig

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 28 April 2014, 12:09:17 »
This sounds great. I would like to find MX switches that would be the equivalent of being between 45g and 55g Topre switches. Is there anything close to that?
I'm still on the fence with modding my clears.

I don't know if I should use 62g or 65g.

I keep thinking that I would prefer it slightly heavier than slightly lighter.

I only have two keyboards.  The Realforce Topre 45g uniform, and a modded Cherry Clear board with Originative 65g springs.  I would not use the 62g springs unless you like Reds/Browns anyway.  To me, the modded Clears with 65g is perfect and somewhere between the 48-50g mark on the Topre scale.  They are so perfect in fact that I hardly visit this forum any more.  YMMV.

Offline thestage

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Re: Beyond mx-brown? Now it's mx-clear to me ;D
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 28 April 2014, 16:39:20 »
Slight derail, but where would I be able to buy an MX Clear keyboard? I know that qtan has Leopolds in Clear, but I was wondering about other options.

CODE sells a clear board that I believe is in stock for $150 right now.