Is it normal that new Mechanical keyboard has chatter keys?

[werear]

I got Steel series 6g v2 (cherry mx red). This was my first mechanical keyboard. I've been using for a while and I feel something wrong with keys since I started to use. It often repeats key and I always have to be careful not to type twice/three times when I use it. So I searched and found this issue is called chatter, switch bounce. I firstly thought this issue is common for mechanical switch and I have to live with it. But I read many people claims they have never had this issue at all and it shouldn't.

I checked speed of key register and found that some switches are registering with less than 10ms interval.
I used this tool to test.
https://elitekeyboards.com/switchhitter.php

I contacted to local customer service and got replaced. So I tried to diagnosis this brand new keyboard with that tool again. It show there are several chatter keys in a few minuts experiment.

Additionally, the website tells that

For a typical Cherry MX based keyboard, the chatter filtering is set to 5-10 milliseconds, but this is not a value that is typically disclosed by keyboard manufacturers. Since input speed capability is a marketable specification, many manufacturers understandably push their luck in this regard. This means that switches must be of excellent performing condition in order to avoid chattering.

Based of this knowledge my keyboard's switch aren't working properly at all....

This is my experience with mechanical keyboard. I love the size and minimal feature of this product. But it makes me question whether I should live with this issue for $100+ keyboard, or not.

I appreciate if you can provide your experience, check your keyboard too and let me know what keyboard you are using.

[Touch_It]

Sounds like faulty switches.  Beyond that I'd imagine you would have to open up the switch or replace the keyboard again.  Maybe a drop or two of running alcohol in the switches would fix it but id wait for someone more knowledgeable to weigh in.

From my experience I have a keyboard albeit 25 years old that has the same issue.  I'm busy with other projects and don't have a soldering iron so I haven't looked into it yet.

[Fragil1ty]

I got Steel series 6g v2 (cherry mx red). This was my first mechanical keyboard. I've been using for a while and I feel something wrong with keys since I started to use. It often repeats key and I always have to be careful not to type twice/three times when I use it. So I searched and found this issue is called chatter, switch bounce. I firstly thought this issue is common for mechanical switch and I have to live with it. But I read many people claims they have never had this issue at all and it shouldn't.

I checked speed of key register and found that some switches are registering with less than 10ms interval.
I used this tool to test.
https://elitekeyboards.com/switchhitter.php

I contacted to local customer service and got replaced. So I tried to diagnosis this brand new keyboard with that tool again. It show there are several chatter keys in a few minuts experiment.

Additionally, the website tells that

For a typical Cherry MX based keyboard, the chatter filtering is set to 5-10 milliseconds, but this is not a value that is typically disclosed by keyboard manufacturers. Since input speed capability is a marketable specification, many manufacturers understandably push their luck in this regard. This means that switches must be of excellent performing condition in order to avoid chattering.

Based of this knowledge my keyboard's switch aren't working properly at all....

This is my experience with mechanical keyboard. I love the size and minimal feature of this product. But it makes me question whether I should live with this issue for $100+ keyboard, or not.

I appreciate if you can provide your experience, check your keyboard too and let me know what keyboard you are using.

I have experienced this on the noppoo choc mini an awful lot, it seems to be very apparent there because of their lack of QoS or maybe it's a combination of their newer models not being as good as their older models or a combination of reds + the keyboard itself and so on, but anyway.


I've noticed that it is something that happens over time for the most part, but if it's happening straight away and your keyboard is issuing signs of chattering? send it back and get a replacement. One thing that I have noticed is that I have not noticed any chattering issues what so ever with the KUL ES 87, which is a very good TKL board, it's very well built and arguably the best TKL board on the market at this very moment.


Solutions (from what I've found out over the years are):


- Replace the switches yourself through soldering
- Find some alcohol as specified by touch_it and run it in between the switches to lube up the keyboard as a lot of keyboards get dry over time
- Replace the keyboard entirely, e.g. send it back and get a replacement
- This is a new one and I've not tested this out myself, I don't think it can be fixed through software, but: http://www.ilovefreesoftware.com/21/windows/keyboard-chattering-fix.html


Good luck~! It sounds like a few faulty switches to me, I'd just replace it if it's still in warranty.

[jacobolus]

This has a lot to do with the debounce routine in the keyboard firmware. Some keyboards just seem to have ****ty debounce implementations.

[Oobly]

This has a lot to do with the debounce routine in the keyboard firmware. Some keyboards just seem to have ****ty debounce implementations.

^^This.

Cherry specify a 5ms debounce time for the MX range. A working switch can "chatter" if the debounce isn't done well. A good debounce routine will even handle a dodgy switch up to a point. I suspect there is no problem with the actual hardware of the board and that the switches are fine, just crappy firmware.

[werear]

@Touch_It
I could imagine 25 years old keyboard can have some issue and may need some maintenance. But brand new keyboard....

@Fragil1ty
so newer noppoo seems to be in the same league as mine. I searched KUL ES 87 and it looks nice keyboard. Their selling point also sounds legit.

Thanks for 4 tips to maintain mechanical keyboard.

@jacobolus @Oobly
Firmware could be the course of the problem as replaced one has bounce phenomenon. It's hard to believe first one and second one are faulty hardware.

This keyboard comes with a leaflet that features eports team Evil Geniuses. It's unbelievable those eports player can't notice the bounce issue that can be easily detected in minutes of test. Or probably SS were giving modified ones to them from their headquarter office....

[jacobolus]

@jacobolus @Oobly
Firmware could be the course of the problem as replaced one has bounce phenomenon. It's hard to believe first one and second one are faulty hardware.

This keyboard comes with a leaflet that features eports team Evil Geniuses. It's unbelievable those eports player can't notice the bounce issue that can be easily detected in minutes of test. Or probably SS were giving modified ones to them from their headquarter office....

Two things.

(1) This issue is a combination of a chattery switch plus a poor firmware debounce routine. How bad the switch has to be to cause a problem depends on precisely how the firmware works. It’s possible that switches within their specified tolerances will have issues on one keyboard while being totally fine in another keyboard. Likewise, it’s possible that for the same firmware, one keyboard will end up with switches that cause a problem while another keyboard is just fine. It’s certainly also possible that occasional switches fall outside of specified tolerances. Whatever the cause though, if you buy a commercially sold keyboard and it has dodgy behavior for one or more of the switches, you should just RMA the keyboard.

(2) Esports players are going to endorse whichever company pays them the most for it. The quality of the product has almost nothing to do with it. (Just like basketball players with shoes, etc.)

[werear]

Update. One possible cause has came up after I did a test. This keyboard behaves differently when using PS/2 connection. When it is connected via USB chattering checker reports no bounces less than 6ms, unlike 3ms chatter easily occurs on every keys when PS/2. So it may be caused by the firmware.

This keyboard doesn't offer Nkey rollover for USB. I bought this gaming keyboard because I thought I don't have to worry about how much key I can press. And premium price for mechanical keys should also provide better user experience. But unfortunately it failed. There is one good thing I can name about this product. The local distributer of SS is very helpful and they let me refund it.

I will warn you when pick this keyboard especially for PS/2 connection. It chatters right off the bat.

[leech]

It's unbelievable those eports player can't notice the bounce issue that can be easily detected in minutes of test.

So what's the full procedure in detail to test if a keyboard suffers from chatter?
Does the software have a chatter test button?