Rowdy's Model M refurbishment

[rowdy]

The space bar stabiliser has been located and applied to the space bar, and the space bar fitted to the keyboard.

I am missing a proper numpad "-" (got one, but the "-' has smaller text aligned top left instead of larger text positioned left centre).

Haven't got a 1x "+" for teh numpad either, and not sure what to put on the extra key above the numpad Enter, although I might convert those two into one large "+" key later on.

And my other half bought me a packet of ziplock sandwich bags to store keycaps in.  Wasn't that sweet of her Although I suspect it was just to stop me from taking all the bags our daughter needs for her school lunches

Edit: Nuts and bolts ordered.

[invariance]

and not sure what to put on the extra key above the numpad Enter

Quite a few pics have this blank, my Wyse board has that as a comma.
What about relengendable caps, eg for the left function keys?  Then you could assign them to macros in the teensy and legend them accordingly.

[rowdy]

Looking for a Teensy for my Model M 122 conversion.  I'll probably end up mounting it inside the case with a USB port on the back somewhere.

Anyway, which Teensy?

I can get a Teensy++ 2.0 for AUD$50.67 - https://littlebirdelectronics.com.au/collections/teensy/products/teensy-2-0

Or a Pro Micro ATmega32U4 from eBay for about AUD$5 - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Pro-Micro-ATmega32U4-5V-16MHz-Replace-ATmega328-Arduino-Pro-Mini-/140972980117?hash=item20d2a4f795:g:MTwAAOSw241YfeGn

Suggestions welcome

Also how do you program it?  Most Model M/F USB conversions note that a Teensy is involved, but most don't give any specifics about what and how.

[jjanssen1]

Looking for a Teensy for my Model M 122 conversion.  I'll probably end up mounting it inside the case with a USB port on the back somewhere.

Anyway, which Teensy?

I can get a Teensy++ 2.0 for AUD$50.67 - https://littlebirdelectronics.com.au/collections/teensy/products/teensy-2-0

Or a Pro Micro ATmega32U4 from eBay for about AUD$5 - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Pro-Micro-ATmega32U4-5V-16MHz-Replace-ATmega328-Arduino-Pro-Mini-/140972980117?hash=item20d2a4f795:g:MTwAAOSw241YfeGn

Suggestions welcome

Also how do you program it?  Most Model M/F USB conversions note that a Teensy is involved, but most don't give any specifics about what and how.

I have bought arduino's before from here: https://www.robotgear.com.au/Category.aspx/Category/41-Microcontrollers-and-IO-Boards

Looks like you can get an official Arduino micro for $41.95 AUD


-Joshua

[jjanssen1]

Also how do you program it?  Most Model M/F USB conversions note that a Teensy is involved, but most don't give any specifics about what and how.

Hasu also has some good converters available for model M's: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=27272.0 & https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard (in the projects section)

Hope this helps 

-Joshua

[fohat.digs]

Using the Teensy 2.0 (without any of the pluses) is what Soarer's work revolved around, and with pjrc's firmware it works with no fuss.

Otherwise, people seem to like this:

https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/how-to-use-a-pro-micro-as-a-cheap-controller-converter-like-soarer-s-t8448.html?hilit=using%20pro%20micro%20teensy

[rowdy]

My 52G9658 has always felt like the nicest Model M keyboard I have used.  Having the socket driver out to disassemble the M122, I thought I'd take the back off it and see what condition it was like inside.

This keyboard is the second one at the start of this thread.

Inside was almost spotless.  There was one (1) missing rivet.  It also has a speaker!  No wonder this one feels really crisp - a benchmark for all my other Model M keyboards.

[rowdy]

No return (beyond the point of).

[fohat.digs]

No return (beyond the point of).

Whoa! You left the stems in when you separated the layers.

That is messy. Taking stems in and out is a pain, but it is necessary. If you have problems with re-assembly, all the stems will have to come off and go back with each iteration.

[rowdy]

No return (beyond the point of).

Whoa! You left the stems in when you separated the layers.

That is messy. Taking stems in and out is a pain, but it is necessary. If you have problems with re-assembly, all the stems will have to come off and go back with each iteration.

Yes, my mistake.

I did that 'cause I was disassembling it on my lap and didn't want to risk damaging the springs.  Still need to make some sort of frame to support it while I am putting it back together.

Everything has been removed now to facilitate giving the barrel plate a bath.

I've seen a link somewhere but can't find it now - how do you remove the legs from the upper part of the case?  They have metal springs and I don't want them to rust when I give the case a bath too.

[fohat.digs]

I've seen a link somewhere but can't find it now - how do you remove the legs from the upper part of the case?  They have metal springs and I don't want them to rust when I give the case a bath too.

There are a few parts, and if you push the plastic towards the outside you can get the inside of the spring out of the groove that holds it in place and pull it out of the way. Then you can push the long plastic part out. It takes a lot of effort and you may fear that you are breaking it. Not quite as bad as opening an AT, however.

I recommend taking a few photos, the pieces are hard to get back in the right configuration. Both sets are the same, but they have to go back in mirror image right and left. The sleeves and tubes have a flat side that only goes one way.

[rowdy]

I've seen a link somewhere but can't find it now - how do you remove the legs from the upper part of the case?  They have metal springs and I don't want them to rust when I give the case a bath too.

There are a few parts, and if you push the plastic towards the outside you can get the inside of the spring out of the groove that holds it in place and pull it out of the way. Then you can push the long plastic part out. It takes a lot of effort and you may fear that you are breaking it. Not quite as bad as opening an AT, however.

I recommend taking a few photos, the pieces are hard to get back in the right configuration. Both sets are the same, but they have to go back in mirror image right and left. The sleeves and tubes have a flat side that only goes one way.

Great!

Thanks for that

[fohat.digs]

Thanks for that

Wait - maybe the long axles with the discs on the end are different and off-center. You can only make it work one way, anyway.

[rowdy]

Thanks for that

Wait - maybe the long axles with the discs on the end are different and off-center. You can only make it work one way, anyway.

I gave it a bit of a pinch and a bit of a push yesterday, but nothing wanted to move.  I'll inspect it more closely tonight.

[fohat.digs]

I gave it a bit of a pinch and a bit of a push yesterday, but nothing wanted to move.  I'll inspect it more closely tonight.

It's a force fit, you will be able to see how it works after you separate all the pieces.

I recommend putting the fingers of both hands on the outside of the case and pushing the end of the axle straight outwards (sidewards) with both thumbs. The legs have holes and the axle passes through them. If you are strong you can probably do it one-handed, but you may get better control with 2.

[invariance]

Do you mean the key stems from the barrel plate?


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[invariance]

Do you mean the key stems from the barrel plate?


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Ignore that, I was back a page with what I was replying to.


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[rowdy]

Thanks for that

Wait - maybe the long axles with the discs on the end are different and off-center. You can only make it work one way, anyway.

Legs removed with relative ease - thank you for the excellent description.

The long axles have three flat sides (two with plastic clips on them) and one rounded side.  It is that which determines which side of the keyboard they go on.  One side has the rounded edge facing the front of the keyboard, the other side the rounded side faces the rear.  And yes, once you pull them apart it is MUCH easier to see how they fit together.

Once I realised that I wasn't going to break it, I pushed with one thumb while holding the other hand outside the case in case something flew off (I do have fairly strong fingers).

The first spring I tried to remove before fully removing the axle, and it did its spring thing and ended up half way across the room.

The second one I removed the axle first, then just lifted the leg and spring out together - much easier.

Also the heat much have been affecting me more than I realised when I sorted the keycaps out, and I had half one piece and half two piece.  That is rationalised now, with nearly all the keycaps being 2 piece.

[fohat.digs]

Still need to make some sort of frame to support it while I am putting it back together.

A few pieces of scrap wood and some nails can make the job a lot easier.

[rowdy]

Still need to make some sort of frame to support it while I am putting it back together.

A few pieces of scrap wood and some nails can make the job a lot easier.

Inside dimensions appreciated

I also like the ones that Phosphorglow uses, but they would take far longer to make.

[rowdy]

Here's a picture of the axle thingy - you can see the three flattish sides and the one curved side.



1/16" drill bit, you say?  Guess which one I seem to have lost in the distant past ...

[rowdy]

Progress report.

Everything is disassembled ready for a bath.  Still need to dig the old baby bath out and clean it though.  I washed one of my SSKs in it - a perfect size.

AFAIK all holes are drilled.  Most of them turned out not too bad.  Still waiting for nuts and bolts to arrive from China - shipping estimate is they will arrive late March or early April.  Hopefully a bit earlier than that.

Keycaps soaking.  Still need to sort out ANSI replacements for the few non-ANSI keys on the M122 (e.g. L-Shift, Enter, backslash).  Still haven't quite decided what to make the left 10 function keys - blank keycaps are on standby.

Pro Micro ordered (from China) - apparently 3 to 4 weeks to arrive.







Thank you to everyone for the help provided so far

[rowdy]

Afternoon update.

The case and barrel plate have been given a bath.  Did I go a bit overboard with the candles?



The case seemed to enjoy the bath anyway, and both case and barrel plate turned out quite well.  All the black texta marks came off the case quite nicely.



Keycaps soaked, scrubbed, and now drying.

[rowdy]

Bolty bits have arrived (sorry, no pic yet, the USB port on my computer has died and it needs to be rebooted to re-enable it), and are in the process of being inserted into the new holes in the barrel plate.

Keycaps are thoroughly dried, but the barrel plate has accumulated a tin layer of dust in the weeks it has been lying around.  Nothing that a quick brush over won't remove.

Still waiting for the Pro Micro.  Still need to find an ANSI Enter key.

[rowdy]

How do you get the nuts on?!?!?!?!

The front row, near the space bar, were easy as there is a thinner plastic lip so the bolts go through a little bit further.

But the rest of them have < 1mm thread protruding above the plate, and it's not quite enough for the nuts to fix on.

Even pinching the metal plate and barrel plate together doesn't help - < 1mm bolt is available for nut application.

[fohat.digs]

If you are using 8mm machine screws there is just barely enough to engage the nut.

I recommend that you use both hands and push/screw the head from one side (with a small screwdriver) while pushing and seating the nut from the other side. Generally, by pushing from both sides simultaneously, I am able to get washers on about 2/3 of them and the other 1/3 will only (barely) accept the nut.

Lately, I have ordered 9mm (or even 10mm) screws in addition to 8mm, and used the 8mm at the bottom (space bar) side and switched over to the longer ones for the upper part, where there is more clearance from the bottom case shell.

[invariance]

Hehehehe
another reason for to go screw mod

[rowdy]

Hehehehe
another reason for to go screw mod

I'm starting to wonder about that.

The nuts are 3.7mm but the bolt heads are only 3.4mm - they might be too small and slip through the holes in the metal plate.

I did notice that Phosphorglow did a screw mod, inserting the screws from underneath the barrel plate.

[fohat.digs]

I have always used Sandy55's method and screwed through the top (face) side and added the nuts on the back (bottom) side. Standard M2 nuts will not fit through the plate holes but I prefer to use washers whenever I can. 8mm screws are long enough but sometimes you have to push to get the plates pressed together and the threads exposed as much as possible.

I don't do "screw mods" but I have done screw repairs, and I always use washers in that case.

[rowdy]

Pro Micros have arrived.  They are Chinese 5V ones with J1 NOT bridged (needs to be bridged, as described here and here).

Nuts finally applied (except one or two where the bolts didn't line up 100% with the holes in the metal plate).

But ... someone forgot to put the little rubber tubes back in the sides of the barrel plate before putting all the other bits back on.  Are they critical?  Will there be problems if they are missing?  Although I'd rather not take all the nuts off again, if I'm going to have problems down the road I'll do it now rather than later.

[fohat.digs]

except one or two where the bolts didn't line up 100% with the holes in the metal plate

But ... someone forgot to put the little rubber tubes back in the sides of the barrel plate before putting all the other bits back on.  Are they critical?

Those tubes are nice but not critical. I forget them more often than I remember them.

With the rest of the assembly back together, you can often get those crooked screws in by backing them out and then forcefully screwing them in the direction they need to go.  Unless your hole is way out of plumb.

[rowdy]

All the keycaps (or stems, where keycaps are missing due to ANSI conversion) have gone back on, and I'm quite relieved to discovered that all of them still click.

There does seem to be a very slight variation across some parts of the board, like the side edges and top, but overall it seems quite good.

Next up is probably to get the Pro Micro flashed and installed inside the keyboard.

And to find replacement keycaps for the ones that are missing, which are a few more than I originally thought.

[xtrafrood]

Ooo, how did I miss this thread?! Impatiently waiting for more 122 photos

[fohat.digs]

There does seem to be a very slight variation across some parts of the board, like the side edges and top, but overall it seems quite good.

And to find replacement keycaps for the ones that are missing, which are a few more than I originally thought.

With a bolt mod you have the option of "tuning" by tightening various areas to different compressions. The front edge is difficult if you are using nuts and you might have to clip off some of the ridges. Regardless, I always populate that front (space bar) line, but many people don't. Otherwise, remember that compressing the center of the line of curvature will tend to open up the far edges, so maybe loosen the center areas while tightening the edges - possibly the opposite of what seemed intuitive at first.

An ANSI conversion takes at least a half dozen caps, and if you replace the navigation cluster and left function keys it can easily be 2 dozen or more. For US customers, a full Model M set of caps from Unicomp (@$30) is about as cheap and easy as simply filling in the gaps a la carte, but for you literally all the way around the world, the shipping probably makes that prohibitive.

A logical and/or cheap person knows that he can only use one keyboard at a time, so you could just swap in the keys in question from another Model M which is not in use, and spend $0 additional.

[rowdy]

Ooo, how did I miss this thread?! Impatiently waiting for more 122 photos

I've got some somewhere, I had USB problems so couldn't empty the camera for a while.

[rowdy]

There does seem to be a very slight variation across some parts of the board, like the side edges and top, but overall it seems quite good.

And to find replacement keycaps for the ones that are missing, which are a few more than I originally thought.

With a bolt mod you have the option of "tuning" by tightening various areas to different compressions. The front edge is difficult if you are using nuts and you might have to clip off some of the ridges. Regardless, I always populate that front (space bar) line, but many people don't. Otherwise, remember that compressing the center of the line of curvature will tend to open up the far edges, so maybe loosen the center areas while tightening the edges - possibly the opposite of what seemed intuitive at first.

An ANSI conversion takes at least a half dozen caps, and if you replace the navigation cluster and left function keys it can easily be 2 dozen or more. For US customers, a full Model M set of caps from Unicomp (@$30) is about as cheap and easy as simply filling in the gaps a la carte, but for you literally all the way around the world, the shipping probably makes that prohibitive.

A logical and/or cheap person knows that he can only use one keyboard at a time, so you could just swap in the keys in question from another Model M which is not in use, and spend $0 additional.

I acquired a mid-sized box of Model M keycaps from various keyboards, including at least one M122.  Thus I have PF1 to PF24

I also acquired a left Shift, but not an ANSI Enter.  The ,, and .. keys on the terminal keyboard need to be replaced with the more conventional ,< and .>, and [{ ]} \| are also different sized and absent from my collection.

I have considered ordering from Unicomp, but shipping price (and currency conversion) almost makes it more expensive for a set of keycaps than it did for the entire keyboard and large keycap collection I have amassed so far.  I have a local option to explore, hopefully, although I haven't had any response from them yet.

I noticed that the front of the case didn't close properly any more, most likely due to the bolts sticking through further as the plastic is thinner along the front lip of the barrel plate.  I had thought about snipping the end of the bolts off, hadn't got around to it yet.

[fohat.digs]

I also acquired a left Shift, but not an ANSI Enter.  The ,, and .. keys on the terminal keyboard need to be replaced with the more conventional ,< and .>, and [{ ]} \| are also different sized and absent from my collection.

I noticed that the front of the case didn't close properly any more, most likely due to the bolts sticking through further as the plastic is thinner along the front lip of the barrel plate.

ANSI Enter and \| are usually the hardest to find, along with Left Shift and Control.

You can use a Dremel to grind deeper the depressions on the inside bottom of the case to gain another mm or so of clearance for the screws.

[rowdy]

I also acquired a left Shift, but not an ANSI Enter.  The ,, and .. keys on the terminal keyboard need to be replaced with the more conventional ,< and .>, and [{ ]} \| are also different sized and absent from my collection.

I noticed that the front of the case didn't close properly any more, most likely due to the bolts sticking through further as the plastic is thinner along the front lip of the barrel plate.

ANSI Enter and \| are usually the hardest to find, along with Left Shift and Control.

You can use a Dremel to grind deeper the depressions on the inside bottom of the case to gain another mm or so of clearance for the screws.

For something so big, it's surprising that there's so little clearance under most of the plate.

[invariance]

What about filing the screw head and nut slightly?  Maybe do a dry assembly but use something on the case where the screw and nut touches to work out the proud points to file down, eg blutac, a thin film of silicon thermal grease, any other suggestions.....
Personally would try to avoid grinding anything on a vintage item, sorry Fogarty.


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[fohat.digs]

a vintage item,

After you get into the Model F, you realize that a Model M is a mostly plastic, modern-ish keyboard rather than a "vintage item" ....

[rowdy]

a vintage item,

After you get into the Model F, you realize that a Model M is a mostly plastic, modern-ish keyboard rather than a "vintage item" ....

I am yet to get a Model F, and thus prefer not to grind any of my keyboards.

Also congratulations on 7000 (helpful, informative, friendly, constructive) posts!

[rowdy]

Long overdue, but the 2018 keyboard plans thread reminded me about.

I fsck up a couple of minor things that probably wouldn't have affected operation of the keyboard, but I would have known about it with every click.

So I removed the nuts, disassembled the layers again, corrected both issues, put the layers back together, and reinstalled the nuts.

Next up is tightening the nuts to get a consistent feel across the board.

Still looking for replacement keycaps, and still need to install and program the Pro Micro, although I'm leaning towards an external solution that would be usable for several keyboards (if not all at once).

[rowdy]

It was f**k off hot 41℃ today (106℉) and reached 35℃ (95℉) inside, but I still managed to get the keycaps on, trimmed down a couple of bolts near the edges that were stopping the case from closing, reattached the controller board, and put what keycaps I have back on.

Now it looks like a keyboard again.

Still to do:

1. Find and install the remaining keycaps.
2. Construct external converter box using Pro Micro (need to order sockets and wires for that).
3. Program said Pro Micro.

[fohat.digs]

You are almost there! 35/95 INSIDE? OMG Do you at least have fans to keep the air moving?

A few of those caps look like they came off of a Wheelwriter typewriter. Too bad those aren't a better source for the rest.

Also too bad you are literally all the way on the other side of the world, I have a couple of those sockets that I showed in my outboard converter box guide, but you can buy them off ebay from China far cheaper than the postage that it would take me to mail them to you.

[rowdy]

You are almost there! 35/95 INSIDE? OMG Do you at least have fans to keep the air moving?

A few of those caps look like they came off of a Wheelwriter typewriter. Too bad those aren't a better source for the rest.

Also too bad you are literally all the way on the other side of the world, I have a couple of those sockets that I showed in my outboard converter box guide, but you can buy them off ebay from China far cheaper than the postage that it would take me to mail them to you.

Yes, a fan was blowing the hot air around.  Fortunately a cool change arrived at around 6pm, but it was still around 30°C (86°F) inside at bed time.

The keyboard itself came with no keycaps, but I later got a box of random keycaps from the same source.  This is the best fit pick from that collection.

My eBay search-fu seems to have failed me - the closest 5 pin 240° DIN socket I could find it from the UK:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DIN-5-Pin-240-Socket-Panel-Mount-MIDI-Data-Audio-Cable-1st-CLASS-POST/291657901251

If anyone has a link to something cheaper (ha!) or closer to Australia, it would be appreciated

Unless I can get away with a 6 pin socket - looks like the 5 pin socket but with an extra hole in the middle:

https://www.jaycar.com.au/6-pin-din-panel-socket/p/PS0354

[fohat.digs]

Our air conditioner broke a few summers ago during a heat wave and it was 35/95 in my bedroom at midnight! That was seriously bad.

The 6-hole sockets work fine, that is what I have always used. Extra holes are meaningless unless something accesses them, unlike extra pins which can interfere.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58941.msg1348717#msg1348717

[ZayaCaps]

Great work on the Model F! This is inspiring me to get out my own Model F and reburb it.

[rowdy]

Great work on the Model F! This is inspiring me to get out my own Model F and reburb it.

Sorry, this is a Model M.

I wish I had a Model F, but they are quite difficult to find down here.

[ZayaCaps]

Sorry, this is a Model M.

I wish I had a Model F, but they are quite difficult to find down here.

Whoops! Apologies for the typo.

[rowdy]

Sorry, this is a Model M.

I wish I had a Model F, but they are quite difficult to find down here.

Whoops! Apologies for the typo.

No worries