Yeah, I have a couple XTs. One found organically, which was cheeeeeaaaaaaaaaap, and the other one from clickykeyboards since I knew it was going to be perfect when I bought it. I overpaid at $200, but I mean, if clickykeyboards has it it's basically new, so I'm fine with that. I paid for the assurance with the name.
You found it organically? Where did you find an IBM XT keyboard lying around?
Well, surprisingly, back in the day, even back only 10 years ago, IBM PCs weren't thatdifficult to find. At my elementary school, we had PS/2s, I remember the mouse and keyboard, which guided me to apprehending my first Model M a couple years later. BUT, we also had 2 IBM PCs. I don't remember what exactly they were, but they did have that stepped layout and a metal cage. While that could mean keyboards from any number of people, I think it shows that these things were around. It also means I still have a slight bit of muscle memory on that layout, so it's not jarring.
Also, being vaguely interested in this kind of stuff my whole life, I always used to check out the old computers and keyboards wherever I was if they had some lying around, and as you know, many did.
I saw the IBM Personal Computer at my ex girlfriend's dad's work or something in their server room back in 09 or 10, along with a lot of old enterprise stuff. I pilfered an Optiplex, a video card, and a few keyboards from that place. It's where I got a couple of my old dome with sliders I break out occasionally (but not that often; small backspace). The PC didn't work and my basic troubleshooting didn't fix it. I opened it up and it was old enough that I didn't know what anything in there was, so it was dead to me. I dropped the keyboard in the box because I recognized the din plug, and at that time didn't know keyboards didn't all use the same protocol. Well, I brought it home and it didn't work, and I did a bit of research. The limited research I gathered was that these couldn't communicate with modern PCs, and there was no point in keeping it around. I checked out prices on ebay and we're talking like $15. To me, it wasn't worth selling, so I didn't sell it. I just never used it.
Now, and I don't know if this was actually the case 10 years ago and I just didn't see anything about it, we have tiny chips and can convert the different protocols, so old keyboards suddenly have become useful, like the Model F. My old one dropped in the box isn't in great condition, and I popped it out and played with it a bit, but the feel not too much better than the Models M and I can see rust on the backplate. I figured I'd just keep it as a museum piece.
The clickykeyboards F is fairly recent. I was over there just looking, and I saw it. He actually said something like "the only way I know this was used is there is some dust under the keys," and he put up pictures and the thing looks immaculate. So I bought it. And a Lexmark branded Model M because I'm insane and think I need to have one of every part number or something. Those don't come up that often, and for $125 I'm willing to pay the extra money to have one in perfect condition with missing rivets replaced.
Well, that's an awesome story. I don't know if it is something others would recommend here, but I would probably strip that F down and dunk anything that's rusty in a vinegar bath a few days and/or scrape the rust off with some oil and a copper brush. The vinegar will take care of all of the rust on its own with enough time, though some say that leaving metal in too long can cause the vinegar to eat the good metal too. Then I would probably hit it with some Rust-Oleum that's meant to neutralize rust in case any active rust was missed, just to stabilize it.
They're good. I think the keyfeel is a little bit better than Ms. A bit lighter, a bit smoother, but I prefer the sound of the Ms. I like the thockier sound. The Model F and a good set of Alps clickies are about even to me, but to me the sound is a fairly big deal, and, combined with the normal ****ing layout, I do prefer the Models M to the Models F, and I prefer the Alps to the rest, including that Matias that I talk about all the time. You know what does it for me on the Matias? The USB hub built in. I love that, and, considering the feel is basically the same as good Alps white, I'm okay with that.
I would have to compare sounds again, but I do believe that the F ATs are the thockiest of the Fs, since the entire case is plastic like an M. Not sure how those might compare to an M in sound. You can modify F ATs and F122s to be ANSI, if you so desired. I do also love USB hubs built into keyboards. It is one of the reasons I like my Das Pro 4 and my K70s. The Das Pro 4's hub is even USB 3.0, which I wish I saw more of.
I do hear that about the ATs. From videos I can hear on the internet, it's still got that pingyness I don't like. The sing songy metal on metal noise. Ick. It's definitely the deepest seeming according to the videos, but it's like lipstick on a pig, so to speak.
I don't need the ANSI layout. I didn't always live here in the US of A! I'm about to give you guys some really boring information. In Luxembourg, 3 layouts tend to be common, in descending order of appearance.
1. German qwertz. It's the one you usually find, and it's second nature to me.
2. Swiss German layout. This is one you often find at peoples' homes, since the Swiss German layout allows people to type accents and characters available in French more easily, but they still type in, of course, mostly Luxembourgish (a Moselle Franconian dialect; informally) or German (more formally, or for the web outside of Luxembourg).
3. French azerty. Holy **** what maniac would willingly type on this awful layout. You have to hit SHIFT FOR THE ****ING PERIOD. Ugh. Default is colon and semicolon like ****ing absolute mentalists. Even though the country's only like 30 miles wide, you do tend to see a geographic distribution on the French layout. On the extreme west of the country you tend to get more Azertys, and they're becoming more popular in high school, as they've changed the instruction language at the high school level to be predominantly French. To me the dividing line between azertys and sensible layouts is at Differdange where you get about 50/50. In Rodange, you're about 70% azerty. In Virton in Belgium, despite speaking Luxembourgish, it's like 100% azerty.
Anyway, all have the ISO enter and short left shift, which I never use anyway, though I thought the AT was basically in ANSI anyway, just with a BAE. I had a qwertz keyboard in my rotation as recently as 3 or 4 years ago.
That's very interesting. I couldn't imagine how confusing/annoying it would be with such different layouts floating around everywhere. I have always lived in the continental U.S., so I have no exposure to other layouts. I just figured that you wanted a layout closer to an M, and an ANSI mod is all that's necessary to make those boards exactly the same, besides the f row being on the left on the AT.
I sadly still have never had blue Alps, but I don't feel like I'm missing much, so I'm not up for dropping $200 for one of those boards when white are available for like $50, but still.
I do not honestly think that you are missing much at this point, now that I have been able to feel Matias switches for myself. The difference is marginal, and it is primarily noticeable in sound more than feel, with the Matias switches lacking the characteristic crisp but high-pitched SKCM click (all other characteristics of SKCM blues are usually bassy).
Is that what it is? I couldn't figure out what it was that I liked more about the Matias than my Alps boards, you know, besides the USB. The build quality is meh, the keycaps are meh, I just didn't know. It must be the lack of pinginess.
Sort of, although I don't think it is even a ping. The SKCM blues I compared against have a high-pitched click. Even Kailh box jades do, it is just that the click isn't really the most prevalant/pronounced sound of either switch, so the overall soundtrack is still bassy on both. With Matias, I have noticed that the click is not high-pitched at all, and is somewhat muted.
If I ever get enough money for a 122 key, it might change my mind, but I like all them keys I get on the Model M, and the XT layout isn't appreciably worse than the AT in my book. To me, it's about the number of keys. The F107 is the holy grail.
I could never type on an F XT. I tried, since it was the one board I had with significantly better switches than MX blues for a good period of time. The layout, and stepped caps, was just too weird. Even AT boards took me a while to get used to, since I use ctrl quite a bit.
Presumably, you could just remap the control, caps, and alt keys to do whatever you wanted, right?
I could. I never use any of the keys that are over by caps lock anyway though, and I would say that navigating with the number pad is pretty jarring as well either way. I don't like messing with custom mappings, certainly not on a computer-to-computer basis since I use one heck of a lot of computers, and I don't want to carry a converter around all of the time if I don't have to. The AT layout is the one thing I make an exception for, for the sake of vintage boards, in ruining my muscle memory and/or deviating from standard modern ANSI.
I agree on the F107. They weigh 10 pounds or more, they're completely unnecessarily long, but they're a thing of simultaneous beauty and ruggedness. Completely impractical, but there's nothing I would rather use regardless at the moment. Not to downplay the rest of the 4704 family.
Well, I performed your suggestion, let's see what happens!
Good luck. I think you'll love it once you get it.
My main board is a Durgod Taurus K320 with Cherry MX Brown switches. It was my first mechanical board. I did some research before buying it and I like it. I have a GMMK Compact in the mail to try out some other switches and see if I like 60% boards for gaming.
Nice. Durgod's boards look pretty nice.
Even AT boards took me a while to get used to, since I use ctrl quite a bit.
Depending on how handy you are, the AT can be modified to something quite close to ANSI if you can do a bit of Dremel work.
Fixing Backspace and Enter are trivial once you have it apart, and if you can grind out two 1/2" diameter half-circles in the plate then you can add 2 Alt keys beside a transplanted Model M space bar and let both Controls be outboard of that. There are multiple options for stabilizing the M space bar, but using 7/16" SAE washers over the "V" and ",<" barrels is the easiest.
Then you have to buy or acquire a small handful of parts such as 2 additional barrels and they replacement key caps.
I know, we've talked about it before. I would rather not mod my F ATs. I have an F77 and F107 to type on now as well anyway. The AT layout hasn't taken significant work to adapt to.
