[IC] GMK Greek Beige Add-on Kit

[LightningXI]

Hello friends from Geekhack and the keyboard community

GB THREAD HERE


Considering getting GMK 9009 R3? If you have fallen in love with the Classic Retro Beige aesthetic in Cherry profile, perhaps you may want to consider this. I am very excited to announce the Interest Check for the GMK Greek Beige Add-on Kit, inspired by keycaps that were originally made by Cherry Corp for the G81-3054HAQ and G81-3090SAQ keyboards.

While I had originally planned a different project, I decided to take smaller steps and make this rather simple but appealing kit a reality. I will be bringing other projects to fruition in the near future

Without further ado...

Kit Design



This is an alphas-only kit.

This set features English primary legends and Greek sublegends, and meant to be produced in doubleshot form using Cherry profile GMK tooling. Sublegends will be the same color as the primary legends.

Please note that the FJ barred show overlap between the bar and the sublegend. This is 100% intentional and we will be making sure that GMK produces these keys correctly, so that this does not happen.

Renders





Timeline

 - GB to open October 15th, 2019. Open for est. 1 month.
 - MOQ is 150 units. Lead time is 16-20 weeks after order submission.

Colors and Features

- The keyset will feature traditional OG Cherry beige colors and profile:
 
  - Stock GMK colors: L9 / CR.
  - Alphas - L9 light beige base, CR black legends, including Greek sublegends (doubleshot).

- Compatible with: OG Cherry doubleshot sets, GMK Classic Retro, GMK KA 1953, GMK 9009, ...

Vendors and Pricing

 Novelkeys (North America):            $30
 MyKeyboard.EU (Europe):               30€
 zFrontier (China/Asia):                   ¥230 / $35
 IlumKB (Singapore/Asia):               45 SGD
 DailyClack (Australia):                     49 AUD

FAQ

How many keys does this kit have?
- 16 keys total.

Would you consider running this in a different colorway? (Dolch, White on Black, etcetera)
-  It may be considered for a future run. More importantly, I would like to run this kit by itself to ensure that any future kits will incorporate feedback from this first proof-of-concept kit.

Would you do a kit with Greek-only legends?
- Not now. This will be considered for a future IC/GB.

Updates

 - 2019/10/06: Pricing update! Confirmed vendors: Novelkeys.xyz, Mykeyboard.eu, zFrontier (CN/EN), IlumKB, and DailyClack.
 - 2019/10/01: New renders posted. Q with sublegends ( : and ; ) added. Barred homing keys added. Quote prepared, proxies lined up -- waiting for OK from all parties -- update will be posted in the coming days.
 - 2019/09/22 - In progress: Collecting feedback. Arranging proxies. Requesting GMK quote.
 - 2019/09/18 - Adding (3) keys: (2) homing keys with bars (F and J) and a Q key with ; sublegend also to be added.


Credits

 - Special thanks to Janglad for the awesome renders and to Mike of Novelkeys who have been so kind in assisting me in realizing this project.
 - Thanks to TapX of Deskthority for the photo of the SAQ keyboard.
 - To depletedvespene (DT) who insisted for the proper ς instead of the mistaken cedilla character on the W key.
 - To all my friends and community members who feed and support my obsession for (vintage) Cherry and beige.

If you're interested in this kit, please fill out this form! Thank you!

Thanks for looking, and happy to hear your feedback and thoughts

[nasp]

Awesome! Looks like I'm gonna have to get 9009 as well
then.

Thanks for putting them in the right spot for sub-legends

[Lbibass]

This looks pretty dope. I personally would be more a fan of a whole alpha kit, but I understand why you did it this way.

[DJSwayde]

Need. Gotta add to my Greek collection.

[appaboy]

Nice

[biothermal]

This, Missing Keys, Korean Beige add-on kit--so much is happening for L9/CR! Top-notch stuff dude, can't wait to own it!

[Taeha Types]

I'm in.

[Atlantic]

I was planning to run something like this but had no idea where to start. I think you'll do a much better job and I'm so glad someone who knows well has decided to run this. I hope it goes well and you can bet your ass off I'm in. <3

[Possumx]

Hey i get that you made the sublegends based on the Vintage Board, but why greek sublegends on all caps?

[depletedvespene]

I see my insistence on the past IC had some long-lasting fruits. I hopethis time around things do work out and the GB is a success!

Couple quick comments:

- Add an R3 \| key, because GMK 9009 doesn't have it and that omission would force the BRITISH layout on a GREEK keyboard. Think of the cypriots! (disclaimer: I am not a cypriot.)

- Consider offering (and make a poll for it) for GREEK ONLY legends, instead of the dual stuff. To some, it looks weird to have one legend in some keys and two in others.

- No R0 in this kit, because Greeks did not invent the number zero. There, I've said it.

- Can I have, as a bonus, an L4/V4 R3 \| key? Please? Pretty please? 

[LightningXI]

Hey i get that you made the sublegends based on the Vintage Board, but why greek sublegends on all caps?

I'm a bit confused with your question, if you could kindly rephrase it. The sublegends correspond to Greek letters that are required for representation of the Greek alphabet on the keyboard. A lot of capital letters in Greek are identical to their Latin capital letter counterparts.

I see my insistence on the past IC had some long-lasting fruits. I hopethis time around things do work out and the GB is a success!

Couple quick comments:
- Add an R3 \| key, because GMK 9009 doesn't have it and that omission would force the BRITISH layout on a GREEK keyboard. Think of the cypriots! (disclaimer: I am not a cypriot.)
- Consider offering (and make a poll for it) for GREEK ONLY legends, instead of the dual stuff. To some, it looks weird to have one legend in some keys and two in others.
- No R0 in this kit, because Greeks did not invent the number zero. There, I've said it.
- Can I have, as a bonus, an L4/V4 R3 \| key? Please? Pretty please? 

Thanks for your support! I hope things work out as well.

As per your comments:
- If I am not mistaken, the implied layout for which the add-on kit would be used is actually ANSI, not British. I have seen many ISO/International add-on kit designs before, and I have yet to see an R3 \ | key. Could you please point out where this is used?
- While I understand the 1-legend vs. 2-legend argument, I will consider this for a future project. For now, I would like the sublegend-version to be a successful proof-of-concept through a group-buy of this kit. One step at a time.
- No R5?!!!!!!! Dealbreaker, I'm out! 
- Ha-ha, personal requests would be a logistical nightmare! I know V4 is blue, but I actually don't know what color L4 is (and I have a GMK color ring in front of me). I hope you find what you need out there =)

Thanks for your feedback.

[konstantin]

The English alphas in this render look neither like the Cherry font nor Helvetica Rounded Bold (which the Cherry font is based on). They're too thin. You might want to fix that.

Speaking of fonts, you might want to take this opportunity to produce molds with the correct sublegends for Σ, Ψ and Θ — the current ones are all slightly off (Θ being the worst offender).

On another note, don't forget to add barred versions of F/Φ and J/Ξ

[Acereconkeys]

I will 100% buy this Also guys, I believe cherry already has these molds, there's no changing them.

[LightningXI]

Show Image

The English alphas in this render look neither like the Cherry font nor Helvetica Rounded Bold (which the Cherry font is based on). You might want to fix that.

Speaking of fonts, you might want to take this opportunity to produce molds with the correct sublegends for Σ, Ψ and Θ — the current ones are all slightly off (Θ being the worst offender).

I will relay that information to Janglad, who created this render. Renders, generally speaking, are an approximate look of what is to be expected, but the actual product will be what GMK has typically used for their fonts/legends. No need to fret.

We may consider sublegend changes for consistency. Thanks!

ninja edit: yes, as per the OP, barred keys will be included -- we will be discussing this with GMK shortly, as sublegends may be obstructive to the placement of bars, so the sublegends may have to be shifted slightly to accommodate a working look.

[ideus]

Please consider to run it in OG White on Black (L9, CR) as well. And do not mess it up with more key caps, or else, it may end being another huge and expensive add-on set that pretty few want to pay for. It may be nice in Greek only legends, but it may not appeal all people interested. That said, just take my money and run it.

[LightningXI]

Please consider to run it in OG White on Black (L9, CR) as well. And do not mess it up with more key caps, or else, it may end being another huge and expensive add-on set that pretty few want to pay for. It may be nice in Greek only legends, but it may not appeal all people interested. That said, just take my money and run it.

Yes, the idea is to run this kit in a size that is as minimal and practical as possible.

White on Black can be considered for a future run. So can Greek-only; however, I would like to run this first, by itself, as a proof-of-concept to ensure that any future runs will incorporate any feedback seen from this run, if successful.

[depletedvespene]

…

I see my insistence on the past IC had some long-lasting fruits. I hopethis time around things do work out and the GB is a success!

Couple quick comments:
- Add an R3 \| key, because GMK 9009 doesn't have it and that omission would force the BRITISH layout on a GREEK keyboard. Think of the cypriots! (disclaimer: I am not a cypriot.)
- Consider offering (and make a poll for it) for GREEK ONLY legends, instead of the dual stuff. To some, it looks weird to have one legend in some keys and two in others.
- No R0 in this kit, because Greeks did not invent the number zero. There, I've said it.
- Can I have, as a bonus, an L4/V4 R3 \| key? Please? Pretty please? 

Thanks for your support! I hope things work out as well.

As per your comments:
- If I am not mistaken, the implied layout for which the add-on kit would be used is actually ANSI, not British. I have seen many ISO/International add-on kit designs before, and I have yet to see an R3 \ | key. Could you please point out where this is used?

Apologies; I went for the quick half-serious, half-joking comment, even though I should have taken the time to make a proper serious comment. So here I go now:

GMK 9009 R3, running its GB now, has the standard kit, with support for the US English national layout over an ANSI physical layout, and the addition kit, which (among other things) contains the mods needed for the ISO physical layout and the alphas for the UK English national layout (over the ISO physical layout). Critically, it does NOT contain the R3 \| alpha key that is required to support the US English national layout over an ISO or an ANSISO physical layout.

That's mildly passable for GMK 9009 in and of itself, but... let's look at the actual Greek keyboard layout:



(note that I've purposefully deleted the 17 AltGr layer key assignments)

You'll note that discounting the Greek alphas, this looks very much like an US English over ISO keyboard, with only a few exceptions (again, discounting the AltGr layer):
- ;: is replaced by the tonos dead key (already in your set).
- Q is replaced by ;: (which is what I assume is the key referred to in "An extra punctuation mark key has been added upon suggestion.")
- The R2 1.5U \| placed over the ANSI Enter is moved to an R3 1.0U \| key as the ISO Enter key takes the R2 area.
- The R4 extra key between LSHIFT and Z is <>, as is done in US English keyboards following the terminal tradition (and a LOT of European national layouts, like Spanish, German, Italian, etcetera... but not UK English, which places \| there).

So, a "good" and "proper" addition kit for the English/Greek keyboard layout should allow the user to go either ISO or ANSI (or ANSISO) and provide for that by adding the R3 \| key (absolutely required) and the R4 <> key (required for full ISO, not required for ANSI and ANSISO).

- While I understand the 1-legend vs. 2-legend argument, I will consider this for a future project. For now, I would like the sublegend-version to be a successful proof-of-concept through a group-buy of this kit. One step at a time.

Your IC, your call to make. 

- No R5?!!!!!!! Dealbreaker, I'm out! 

Split space bar or GTHO. And Greek symbols for the novelty icons or GTHO. And F13..F24 keys for the terminal-minded among us. What else? Oh, yeah! Thin ISO Enter keys for all. ) ) ) ) ) )

- Ha-ha, personal requests would be a logistical nightmare! I know V4 is blue, but I actually don't know what color L4 is (and I have a GMK color ring in front of me). I hope you find what you need out there =)

I'm sorry. I meant L9/V4 (as in GMK Blue Alert's alphas).

[LightningXI]

As per your comments:
- If I am not mistaken, the implied layout for which the add-on kit would be used is actually ANSI, not British. I have seen many ISO/International add-on kit designs before, and I have yet to see an R3 \ | key. Could you please point out where this is used?

Apologies; I went for the quick half-serious, half-joking comment, even though I should have taken the time to make a proper serious comment. So here I go now:

GMK 9009 R3, running its GB now, has the standard kit, with support for the US English national layout over an ANSI physical layout, and the addition kit, which (among other things) contains the mods needed for the ISO physical layout and the alphas for the UK English national layout (over the ISO physical layout). Critically, it does NOT contain the R3 \| alpha key that is required to support the US English national layout over an ISO or an ANSISO physical layout.

That's mildly passable for GMK 9009 in and of itself, but... let's look at the actual Greek keyboard layout:

(Attachment Link)

(note that I've purposefully deleted the 17 AltGr layer key assignments)

You'll note that discounting the Greek alphas, this looks very much like an US English over ISO keyboard, with only a few exceptions (again, discounting the AltGr layer):
- ;: is replaced by the tonos dead key (already in your set).
- Q is replaced by ;: (which is what I assume is the key referred to in "An extra punctuation mark key has been added upon suggestion.")
- The R2 1.5U \| placed over the ANSI Enter is moved to an R3 1.0U \| key as the ISO Enter key takes the R2 area.
- The R4 extra key between LSHIFT and Z is <>, as is done in US English keyboards following the terminal tradition (and a LOT of European national layouts, like Spanish, German, Italian, etcetera... but not UK English, which places \| there).

So, a "good" and "proper" addition kit for the English/Greek keyboard layout should allow the user to go either ISO or ANSI (or ANSISO) and provide for that by adding the R3 \| key (absolutely required) and the R4 <> key (required for full ISO, not required for ANSI and ANSISO).

These are interesting suggestions. I think it will be fair to poll folks and also get price quotes from GMK, and then, make an assessment based on numbers. In summary, your suggestions are:

1. Support "EU (non-UK) ISO": add 2 keys -- R3 \| and R4 > <.
2. Add a Q alpha with ; sublegend due to the displacement of the ; key.

In general, however, this add-on kit is meant to "be extra spice" to beige alphas, rather than a compatibility kit. As for compatibility, I have felt that ISO users may already own doubleshots with the keys they need (namely the R3 \ and R4 >). These will be considered and I will make a decision later; thanks for your input.

[depletedvespene]

…
In general, however, this add-on kit is meant to "be extra spice" to beige alphas, rather than a compatibility kit. As for compatibility, I have felt that ISO users may already own doubleshots with the keys they need (namely the R3 \ and R4 >). These will be considered and I will make a decision later; thanks for your input.

R3 \| is the one that's actually the most sorely needed, as it's usually omitted (and unduly replaced by #~ in "Atlantis ISO" kits). If it comes to adding "just one", I think that should be the top priority (R2 ;: and R4 <> will have to fight out the second spot).

[ideus]

Please consider to run it in OG White on Black (L9, CR) as well. And do not mess it up with more key caps, or else, it may end being another huge and expensive add-on set that pretty few want to pay for. It may be nice in Greek only legends, but it may not appeal all people interested. That said, just take my money and run it.

Yes, the idea is to run this kit in a size that is as minimal and practical as possible.

White on Black can be considered for a future run. So can Greek-only; however, I would like to run this first, by itself, as a proof-of-concept to ensure that any future runs will incorporate any feedback seen from this run, if successful.

If I may say so myself the concept of Greek sub-legends is pretty proofed already, you have chosen a Champion mini-set to run that any serious Beige lover should get.  )

[kustom3]

GMK Frat House

[mrpetrov]

Very cool idea and totally in!

[LightningXI]

R3 \| is the one that's actually the most sorely needed, as it's usually omitted (and unduly replaced by #~ in "Atlantis ISO" kits). If it comes to adding "just one", I think that should be the top priority (R2 ;: and R4 <> will have to fight out the second spot).

I see; I understand. I hope not to disappoint, but while this may be in my consideration, I will wait to see if there is a significant, expressed interest in supporting the ISO key(s).

Thank you again for your input, depletedvespene!

If I may say so myself the concept of Greek sub-legends is pretty proofed already, you have chosen a Champion mini-set to run that any serious Beige lover should get.  )

  Thank you for your kind endorsement 

GMK Frat House

 ) ) ) ) ) LOL ) ) ) ) )

[ideus]

GMK Frat House

Loving the kit's name...Wait, isn't official yet? Is a Geek-Frat novelty escape key coming?

[futurecrime]

Looks great man. I’d definitely get it if I typed in Greek.

[LightningXI]

Looks great man. I’d definitely get it if I typed in Greek.

Forgot to tell you that 'rantas' is derived from the word for fantastic in Greek...

[CodeMayhem]

Any consideration for monoalpha?
NVM I read the post now that I'm not walk to work

[LightningXI]

Any consideration for monoalpha?
NVM I read the post now that I'm not walk to work

Will be considered in the future. First would like to make the Greek legends themselves viable, and that they actually look good in person.

[dallman5]

In 

[hineybush]

Show Image

The English alphas in this render look neither like the Cherry font nor Helvetica Rounded Bold (which the Cherry font is based on). They're too thin. You might want to fix that.

Speaking of fonts, you might want to take this opportunity to produce molds with the correct sublegends for Σ, Ψ and Θ — the current ones are all slightly off (Θ being the worst offender).

On another note, don't forget to add barred versions of F/Φ and J/Ξ :)

it's a render, don't worry, they'll be the normal Cherry/GMK font in the end

also don't ever do double legends, the greek-only subs look best

[Puddsy]

support my son

[konstantin]

Show Image

The English alphas in this render look neither like the Cherry font nor Helvetica Rounded Bold (which the Cherry font is based on). They're too thin. You might want to fix that.

Speaking of fonts, you might want to take this opportunity to produce molds with the correct sublegends for Σ, Ψ and Θ — the current ones are all slightly off (Θ being the worst offender).

On another note, don't forget to add barred versions of F/Φ and J/Ξ :)

it's a render, don't worry, they'll be the normal Cherry/GMK font in the end

I know that, it's worth fixing the renders for their own sake.

By the way, I realized I should probably explain what's wrong with the three sublegends I mentioned. The center part of Σ in the Cherry legend doesn't go “in” far enough; the tip should reach the geometric center point of the character or even go past it. The curved part of Ψ should be one piece, whereas in the Cherry legend you can see that it's two distinct pieces (kind of like U|U). Finally, the horizontal line in uppercase Θ shouldn't touch the sides of the circle.
There are inconsistencies with the thickness of some of the sublegends as well, but fixing that is beyond the scope of this set...

[Khers]

Yes, please.

[hansikhouse]

This is neat, looking to pick one up depending on pricing. Will get me to at least remember the Grk alphabet.

[billnye]

Great idea! Definitely in.

[hansichen]

In for one. Current kit design is good 

[LightningXI]

This is neat, looking to pick one up depending on pricing. Will get me to at least remember the Grk alphabet.

Good for any scientists, engineers, mathematicians out there...

Yes, please.

 

In for one. Current kit design is good 

Thank you! Means a lot coming from the person who had me excited for Greek before 

Great idea! Definitely in.

Thanks for your support!

[Possumx]

Hey i get that you made the sublegends based on the Vintage Board, but why greek sublegends on all caps?

I'm a bit confused with your question, if you could kindly rephrase it. The sublegends correspond to Greek letters that are required for representation of the Greek alphabet on the keyboard. A lot of capital letters in Greek are identical to their Latin capital letter counterparts.

Guess i just assumed the lowercase alphabet which would be many more sublegends, but since you use upper case its just these. My bad confused that.
Also prolly getting one

[LightningXI]

Hey i get that you made the sublegends based on the Vintage Board, but why greek sublegends on all caps?

I'm a bit confused with your question, if you could kindly rephrase it. The sublegends correspond to Greek letters that are required for representation of the Greek alphabet on the keyboard. A lot of capital letters in Greek are identical to their Latin capital letter counterparts.

Guess i just assumed the lowercase alphabet which would be many more sublegends, but since you use upper case its just these. My bad confused that.
Also prolly getting one

Ah, I see. I understand your point now. Yeah, doing lowercase letters would require a lot of new trickery to it -- mainly designing the font to actually match the uppercase counterparts! It'd be an interesting endeavor for sure, though I'm not entirely sure how the reception of something like that would be. But it'd definitely be somewhat a more colossal task, at least relative to this rather simple add-on kit...

In any case, thanks for your input and support

[Flexerman]

100% must buy for me.

[J3ff_Leopard]

Any alpha add-on that matches 9009 or BoW is an instant buy.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[nasp]

Would love to see the rest of the alphas present so we can mix and match with other sets that have either black, white, or beige modifiers. For instance, I could pair this with GMK Nines. Sure the legends wouldn't match exactly, but I think in this case it would be so close that it wouldn't matter. Same could be said of WoB or BoW or really any other neutral set.

[LightningXI]

Would love to see the rest of the alphas present so we can mix and match with other sets that have either black, white, or beige modifiers. For instance, I could pair this with GMK Nines. Sure the legends wouldn't match exactly, but I think in this case it would be so close that it wouldn't matter. Same could be said of WoB or BoW or really any other neutral set.

I thought about this -- however, beige sets are rather ubiquitous, and the rest of the alphas would not have the same style as the ones included in this kit -- namely, a Latin character legend in the upper left (well, technically all Greek precedes Latin... but you know what I mean), and a Greek character legend in the lower right. The intention for this kit would be to bring only the newly molded keys to life in a classic colorway. This helps minimize both the cost as well as not make further duplicates of largely existing keys.

[Photekq]

inspired by keycaps that were originally made by Cherry Corp for the G81-3090SAQ keyboard.

Hey, don't forget the HAQ! It's an even closer brother.

The add-on looks great, good luck with the inevitable GB.

- To depletedvespene (DT) who insisted for the proper ς instead of the mistaken cedilla character on the W key.

This is cool to see. The original keyboards are supposedly Cypriot layout rather than Greek, hence the turkish Ç (according to chzel).

[LightningXI]

inspired by keycaps that were originally made by Cherry Corp for the G81-3090SAQ keyboard.

Hey, don't forget the HAQ! It's an even closer brother.

The add-on looks great, good luck with the inevitable GB.

Why yes, of course. I've been aware but didn't put in all the names, will edit for completeness' sake.

And thank you!

[Captain Shwah]

GMK HAQ y SAQ

nice.

[nasp]

Would love to see the rest of the alphas present so we can mix and match with other sets that have either black, white, or beige modifiers. For instance, I could pair this with GMK Nines. Sure the legends wouldn't match exactly, but I think in this case it would be so close that it wouldn't matter. Same could be said of WoB or BoW or really any other neutral set.

I thought about this -- however, beige sets are rather ubiquitous, and the rest of the alphas would not have the same style as the ones included in this kit -- namely, a Latin character legend in the upper left (well, technically all Greek precedes Latin... but you know what I mean), and a Greek character legend in the lower right. The intention for this kit would be to bring only the newly molded keys to life in a classic colorway. This helps minimize both the cost as well as not make further duplicates of largely existing keys.

Besides 9009 which is currently running, how else can one obtain a keyset with L9 alphas? It would be through r/mm of course, but that isn't a good option.

I'm surprised you didn't give pricing as one of your reasons. How much do you think would it add to the cost?

[ideus]

Aren't you aware that most OG Cherry beige sets match these keys in color and font of the legends?

[nasp]

Aren't you aware that most OG Cherry beige sets match these keys in color and font of the legends?

I'm not. I have a very limited knowledge of vintage boards and caps. How hard would it to be find OG Cherry beige and are they double-shot or dye-sub?

[ideus]

Aren't you aware that most OG Cherry beige sets match these keys in color and font of the legends?

I'm not. I have a very limited knowledge of vintage boards and caps. How hard would it to be find OG Cherry beige and are they double-shot or dye-sub?

Many OG Cherry are double shots. A few are dyed but these are expensive.