Japanese Layout keyboard extra thumb keys

[shaaniqbal]

Hi I'm thinking of buying a Japanese keyboard, not to type Japanese but because I'd like make use of the extra thumb keys next to the spacebar. So I'll be using by English (UK) region layout in Windows. I want one of the keys besides the spacebar to act as backspace, that way I can make more use of the thumbs. Does anyone here own a Japanese keyboard who can tell me what happens when they press either of the keys next to the spacebar, while in English UK region setting?

[stoic-lemon]

When I switch to US layout nothing happens when I press those keys. Are you going to use Autohotkey or something?

[shaaniqbal]

Ah, that's a shame. I don't know how I'd remap one to backspace then. I was going to try using Keytweak to do it. I don't have experience with Autohotkey. Another thing that interested me was the swapped caps lock and Ctrl keys. When you press thise while on US layout, do their functions get switched too?

[lcs]

I believe you're going the wrong way to do this. Perhaps getting an ergo board would be better.

[shaaniqbal]

Ergo keyboards would be too expensive I think. Budget is around £30. I want to get:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/271286033484?nav=SEARCH

I find Apple's wireless keyboard to be exceptional.

[stoic-lemon]

I don't have Autohotkey, but if the keyboard is sending codes, then couldn't you remap them?

Edit: Not sure what you mean about the other keys since they are in the same place. I may be derping since it's morning here.

[lcs]

Ergo keyboards would be too expensive I think. Budget is around £30. I want to get:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/271286033484?nav=SEARCH

I find Apple's wireless keyboard to be exceptional.

Ah, I see. The cheapest ergo I can think of is this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TypeMatrix-Ergonomic-Keyboard-Dvorak-Qwerty-/260903737534?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3cbf1318be

I have the 'above' model (it is a bit different) and it is a great board. This one is the one I have: http://www.typematrix.com/

If you cold afford, I'd suggest an ergodox or maybe a kinesis.

[laffindude]

Ah, that's a shame. I don't know how I'd remap one to backspace then. I was going to try using Keytweak to do it. I don't have experience with Autohotkey. Another thing that interested me was the swapped caps lock and Ctrl keys. When you press thise while on US layout, do their functions get switched too?

Keytweak
Yes.

[shaaniqbal]

I don't have Autohotkey, but if the keyboard is sending codes, then couldn't you remap them?

Edit: Not sure what you mean about the other keys since they are in the same place. I may be derping since it's morning here.

I don't know how I would remap them, if they don't send any key code at all on the English layout. On Keytweak I think you can only remap keys that show up in the reference diagram it has.

Oh it looks like its just the Apple keyboard with the swapped Ctrl and caps lock keys, not standard for Japanese keyboards.

[stoic-lemon]

I downloaded Keytweak. I'm not sure how you're supposed to use it, but I switched to US layout and put it in half teach mode. It recognized the muhenkan key and seems it would let me remap it to backspace. I'm wary of doing it myself, but from this evidence it looks like it would work.

[laffindude]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54677.msg1224999#msg1224999

[stoic-lemon]

So which keyboard are you going to get?

[shaaniqbal]

I downloaded Keytweak. I'm not sure how you're supposed to use it, but I switched to US layout and put it in half teach mode. It recognized the muhenkan key and seems it would let me remap it to backspace. I'm wary of doing it myself, but from this evidence it looks like it would work.

Brilliant, thank you Stoic_lemon and laffindude. I will probably get the Apple keyboard then and remap using Keytweak then. 

Muhenkan keys, is that what they're called? And I just need to set Keytweak in half teach mode to remap them? Sweet.

[shaaniqbal]

Ergo keyboards would be too expensive I think. Budget is around £30. I want to get:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/271286033484?nav=SEARCH

I find Apple's wireless keyboard to be exceptional.

Ah, I see. The cheapest ergo I can think of is this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TypeMatrix-Ergonomic-Keyboard-Dvorak-Qwerty-/260903737534?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3cbf1318be

I have the 'above' model (it is a bit different) and it is a great board. This one is the one I have: http://www.typematrix.com/

If you cold afford, I'd suggest an ergodox or maybe a kinesis.

The 2020 is a little bit ugly/old fashioned looking but thanks for the link, that's a good price. Would I be able to reassign one of the spacebars to another function?

I just don't think anything will match the extremely short travel and snappy feel of the Apple wireless keyboard keys though.

[shaaniqbal]

Oh forgot to ask, how comfortable is it to reach the Muhenkan keys with the thumbs? Do you have to bend your thumb inwards? Is spacebar less comfortable?

[jacobolus]

Do you use a Mac? You can very likely create a new keyboard layout which uses those keys for something. In Windows, I have no idea. It’s probably possible, but you’d have to find someone who knows about Windows keyboard drivers, etc.

[shaaniqbal]

Oh would I need special drivers? I was hoping it would be plug and play and I could remap with Keytweak. I use Windows.

[stoic-lemon]

Those keys to the left and right of the spacebar are called muhenkan and henkan respectively. I actually have the Japanese Apple keyboard (the aluminium one with white keys) and I think those buttons are easy to press. You don't need to move your thumb an uncomfortable amount.

[shaaniqbal]

Thank you Stoic, that is good to know. Is your keyboard the same as:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/271286033484?nav=SEARCH

The picture seems to show Ctrl and caps lock swapped from their normal positions.

I'm also intrigued as to the function of the Henkan key, as I understand it it is used to select the less common of multiple words that share the same sequence of keystrokes, is that right? I'm not familiar with Japanese but that sounds similar to T9 (see my thread here describing a port of it to the PC: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52967.msg1178985#msg1178985 )

[stoic-lemon]

Yes, that's the same one I have with those keys swapped. Not all Japanese keyboards are like that. The henkan keys aren't really that useful. I asked my wife if she uses them and she said she doesn't. Not that she is a power keyboard user or anything. They also change the text you have input from hiragana to katakana.