[GB] MxSS - Polycarb 65% Kit for MX/SMK [Kinda close to finishing again?!]

[MxBlue]

Update here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94986.msg2824131#msg2824131

Hey boys and girls, it's time to get the ball rolling!

Orders: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18IOumQD9hxTbKlupQTYU7bqaifdyhNX8CI56jXH__sk/edit#gid=0

I am opening the GB early, before receiving PCB prototypes since it seems that we will need to count down the Paypal 21 day timer to be able to place the order, I apologise in advance for the 3wk delay. We will use money out of our own pockets to fund all other purchases, but case/plate manufacture will be delayed until funds are released.

Photos of the second prototype:

More

Some older renders by TC: http://instagram.com/tre.vc/:




Photos of the first prototype, first shown at Syd Meetup:




This is a poor camera job of how the RGB looks like: https://streamable.com/dpam9

My attempt at trying to show off RGB: https://streamable.com/keyp2

Information:

Case: Frosted Polycarbonate, CNC milled
Plate: Brass, mirror-finished and electroplated
Weight: Same as plate
PCB: Custom designed for the MxSS by kawasaki161, White solder mask and ENIG finish

Details:
 - 2.9 degrees angle on the case
 - Top mount plate
 - Center USB, Type-B Mini
 - MX and SMK (White and Orange) switch support
 - Holtite support
 - No in-switch LEDs, yes to RGB underglow
 - 1.5kg with plate and weight




Black nickel-plated steel plate/weights will be lasercut from Stainless Steel grade 304, with an appearance similar to this: https://imgur.com/a/xdfXh
The reflectiveness will be better than the images shown (factory pics are never great lol). It is important to note that these will not be prototyped, but we will work with the factory to ensure they are functional. I can not guarantee the appearance.

Polycarb plate will be CNC'd and sandblasted, and again, will not be prototyped. I have tested with an acrylic plate in its place, and it has a fairly significant amount of flex in some areas. I can not guarantee the appearance or performance of this plate. Here's a pic of the acrylic plate without the protective film removed, visually similar to what I wish to get the finish to be:



Group Buy Information:

 - FCFS
 - MOQ 20, Cap 25 (25/25 slots taken)
 - Up to 2 extras may be available after the GB

Price (excluding fees + shipping):

- Base Kit (Case, Plate, Weight, PCB, GMK Stabilisers) - $350USD
- Extra Plate - $60USD
- Extra PCB - $55USD
- Black Nickel-plated Steel Plate/Weight (Extra) - $130USD
- Polycarb Plate (Extra) - $60USD

Shipping:

I'll be shipping through most likely DHL, I need to contact my shipping provider to confirm which courier they use. Shipping times are variable, here are some estimated costs and times:

 - Australia, 0-6 days - $20AUD-$35AUD
 - United States, 2-3 days - $70USD
 - United Kingdom, 2-3 days - $75USD
 - Europe - 2-3 days, $75USD
 - Asia - 2-3 days, $65USD

It is really unfortunate that shipping is this expensive, but do note this is calculated conservatively. This is fully insured courier post at least, so we can rest assured that things are transported properly. While cheaper options are available, they are not worth the reduction in service.
 
UPDATE: After talks with my courier, we should be able to provide better prices, pending actually giving my courier correct quantities and destinations. The listed prices are the upper limit, and in the case of the United States at least, the price will most likely go down, think closer to 50USD for the US.

Deadline & Lead Times:

So our situation is that we will have to probably wait 3wks for PayPal to payout so I can pay my factory.

Current ETA: 2mnths2.5mnths3mnths4mnths ETA unknown
ETA will be updated once production resumes.

As for payment, I will set a deadline of 1wk for payment.
All orders are final, I will not transfer paid slots as any refunds I do through PayPal will cause the funds to be held for an unknown period of time. See this: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92418.msg2552202#msg2552202

If you do not want a slot, please don't pay for it!

Updates:

03/04/18 - GB Opened
07/04/18 - GB Closed, Invoices out
11/04/18 - Put order in with the factory (cases/plates/weights), lead time 3-4wks
13/04/18 - Put order in with PCB factory and box factory, lead time 3-4wks
19/04/18 - Brass parts have almost finished the CNC stage
27/04/18 - Most parts nearly finished machining stage, will go into finishing stage/ manual labour after the factory take a break next week (Labor Day)
08/05/18 - Parts finished machining, PCBs getting redone, Brass parts paused post polishing until finishes are finalised
12/05/18 - Steel plates being polished, requested gold plating sample
19/05/18 - Gold plating and electrophoretic coated samples done, being shipped to me for checking
23/05/18 - Received samples, electrophoretic coating to replace UV coating, electroplating flawed on one side
28/05/18 - New PCB prototypes arrived, tested working, PCB production to finish shortly.
29/05/18 - Brass parts resumed production.
31/05/18 - Black Steel parts resumed production.
19/06/18 - First shipment arrived, one lot of cases and black nickel steel parts
25/06/18 - PCBs arrived, need to be reflashed with a bootloader
26/06/18 - Rest of parts arrived, initial QC inspection fails many, see post for explanation: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94986.msg2629255#msg2629255
10/07/18 - Firmware completed, discussing how to remake parts
26/07/18 - Brass parts sent back for rework, PCBs still being tested
05/08/18 - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94986.msg2646217#msg2646217
28/08/18 - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94986.msg2653540#msg2653540
??/??/1? - Yea look, I gave up updating this bit a while ago, check from page 3/4 for a chronology of my sadness.

11/04/18 - Paypal somehow did not freeze my money, so I've put in the order as it stands. Since it appears that at least 1 person has dropped out, possibly 2, I will advertise the positions in the GB as open slots once I can confirm it. I'm going to leave the deadline at 2mnths to give us ample time to get things done. Factory should start production mid next week, once the sample I sent get to them.

13/04/18 - Got some final numbers from both my PCB and box manufacturer, and have put in the orders for both. Added in lead times for everything so people have an idea of what we're waiting for.

08/05/18 - Cases, plates and weights have finished being machined, and are being hand finished before going on to the next stage of finishing. PCBs were awaiting components for assembly, but we discovered a flaw in the PCBs, namely that the stabiliser holes for the bottom row were in the wrong direction, so I promptly paid for another batch to be produced with the issue corrected, I am awaiting a sample of it before proceeding on that front. Brass parts are having their finish changed on account of the factory being unable to do gold electroplating, UV coating and silver electroplating being offered up.

26/06/18 - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94986.msg2629255#msg2629255 TL;DR: Cases half alright, electrophoretic coating ended up worse than expected, factory will fix things, just need a new finish (or compromise on an old one) for brass parts.

...

Some time July 2020 - All GB units delivered

------

See attached files for the plate and weight.

[Photoelectric]

Approval bump.

As usual for prospective participants, Caveat Emptor.

[TechieWeirdo]

I have never tried filling in a form so quickly in my life.

[YisSerL]

I have never tried filling in a form so quickly in my life.

Good luck, hope you get in!

I see you have a JetFire coming in (from your signature), so you should not be a stranger to the FCFS form typing test.   

[xondat]

Nice, GLWB

[futurecrime]

This is a lovely looking board. GLWGB.

[Kevadu]

For SMK switches do you support switches with the PCB-mount stabilizer pins?

[kawasaki161]

For SMK switches do you support switches with the PCB-mount stabilizer pins?

Yes

[TechieWeirdo]

I have never tried filling in a form so quickly in my life.

Good luck, hope you get in!

I see you have a JetFire coming in (from your signature), so you should not be a stranger to the FCFS form typing test.   

Jetfire was really easy to get in, it took a while before all the slots are taken.

[lac29]

Damnit ... I'm close to getting it but the plain blocker design and high shipping cost to US make me hesitate.

[kmba]

Damnit ... I'm close to getting it but the plain blocker design and high shipping cost to US make me hesitate.

I believe the shipping quotes are the max, and could come down after the actual packaging.  And in any event.. pretty much every nice board is around $420+ shipped these days.  Just the way of the world. 

[MxBlue]

Damnit ... I'm close to getting it but the plain blocker design and high shipping cost to US make me hesitate.

To at least give myself a fighting chance of selling it to you, you've seen the new blocker, right?


As for shipping, calculating using my current courier puts me at ~$40USD/person shipping in bulk to the US, so if my contact there can do better local shipping, we should be able to bring it down a touch. Shipping costs are really not final, I'm aware that shipping costs are really quite high, and am planning to the best of my ability to lower them.

EDIT: And as kmba said, shipping prices shouldn't increase past that since weight is calculated by volume, so shipping prices will only change by ~3USD either way based on exchange rate at the time of shipping.

[hervuli]

Filled out the form but I'm not sure I understand the timeline (which is fine because I'm in no rush). Does "1.5 months to the end of the GB" mean 1.5 months from now until delivery of the kits? That seems... really really fast, especially with a 3 week Paypal delay?

[MxBlue]

Filled out the form but I'm not sure I understand the timeline (which is fine because I'm in no rush). Does "1.5 months to the end of the GB" mean 1.5 months from now until delivery of the kits? That seems... really really fast, especially with a 3 week Paypal delay?

I really hope I'm not being naive in estimating times but, I'll lay things out:

Money comes in, 3wk timer starts ticking.
We use our money to order PCBs, packing materials and the remainder stabilisers.
PCBs are soldered by someone local, this will probably take up the whole 6wks, possibly a bit longer.
When the PayPal money clears, order goes in and we have to wait ~2-2.5wks for manufacture, then 0.5wks for shipping to me.

PCB QC will happen as they're prepared, case/plate/weight QC will be done once they arrive.

I guess you are right in that 1.5mnths is a touch fast haha, I'll up it to 2 to give ourselves leeway. That said, I do not believe this whole process should take too much time, and am fairly confident in the 2mnth deadline (pray to god nothing goes wrong haha).

[MxBlue]

UPDATE: After talks with my courier, we should be able to provide better prices, pending actually giving my courier correct quantities and destinations. The listed prices are the upper limit, and in the case of the United States at least, the price will most likely go down.

[hervuli]

Filled out the form but I'm not sure I understand the timeline (which is fine because I'm in no rush). Does "1.5 months to the end of the GB" mean 1.5 months from now until delivery of the kits? That seems... really really fast, especially with a 3 week Paypal delay?

I really hope I'm not being naive in estimating times but, I'll lay things out:

Money comes in, 3wk timer starts ticking.
We use our money to order PCBs, packing materials and the remainder stabilisers.
PCBs are soldered by someone local, this will probably take up the whole 6wks, possibly a bit longer.
When the PayPal money clears, order goes in and we have to wait ~2-2.5wks for manufacture, then 0.5wks for shipping to me.

PCB QC will happen as they're prepared, case/plate/weight QC will be done once they arrive.

I guess you are right in that 1.5mnths is a touch fast haha, I'll up it to 2 to give ourselves leeway. That said, I do not believe this whole process should take too much time, and am fairly confident in the 2mnth deadline (pray to god nothing goes wrong haha).

This would be amazing. Thanks for the detail and good luck!!

[Kafka]

dope

[bthezebra]

I think we are almost there to an even 20.

[vewy_nice]

Black nickel, and extra pcb... Hm, most expensive keyboard I own coming soon I guess?

I mean, at this point, how much would it be to get an extra set of case parts?

I'm glad I got in before the cap, though. I was (and still am) really excited for this. My avatar should hopefully indicate that I love clear polycarb/acryllic stuff haha 
This transparent 5* case feels like ass, though, and I can't wait for top-mounted bliss.

Also: When the heck did this all get SMK support? That's super weird and awesome. Definitely going to build my extra plate/pcb combo with SMK's now.

[MxBlue]

Black nickel, and extra pcb... Hm, most expensive keyboard I own coming soon I guess?

I mean, at this point, how much would it be to get an extra set of case parts?

I'm glad I got in before the cap, though. I was (and still am) really excited for this. My avatar should hopefully indicate that I love clear polycarb/acryllic stuff haha 
This transparent 5* case feels like ass, though, and I can't wait for top-mounted bliss.

Also: When the heck did this all get SMK support? That's super weird and awesome. Definitely going to build my extra plate/pcb combo with SMK's now.

An extra set of case parts, hmm... I don't think that's too much a problem, other than that you'd have everything delivered in 2 boxes, meaning a jump in the shipping cost.

As for SMK support, some Aussie asked for it (and promptly bailed on the board  ), so we decided to go for it, since MX plates work out anyway.

What SMK switches do you plan on using? I've only got SMK Whites to test out fit and usability, and I wouldn't use any SMK switches without stabilizer pins, since some plate cutouts, the enter being the absolute worst case, don't have support from the plate.

[vewy_nice]

My heart really wants to go for Monterey blues, because I'm an alps fanboy... That'd certainly be interesting.

Although I'll probably just find some linear oranges, just to say that I have an SMK custom board, and not have to fight to find decent keycaps aha.

[MxBlue]

I'm happy to say that MxSS has reached MOQ for all parts!

I will close up the GB after I managed to get my PCB ready so I can show what the final product should look like with lighting and all, which should be 2-3 days.

My heart really wants to go for Monterey blues, because I'm an alps fanboy... That'd certainly be interesting.

Although I'll probably just find some linear oranges, just to say that I have an SMK custom board, and not have to fight to find decent keycaps aha.

Monterey Blues would have the issue of not really being supported in any cutout that isn't a square, I circled the worst cases in the attached pic. Linear oranges fair better, but still gotta watch alignment before you solder.

[Kevadu]

My heart really wants to go for Monterey blues, because I'm an alps fanboy... That'd certainly be interesting.

Although I'll probably just find some linear oranges, just to say that I have an SMK custom board, and not have to fight to find decent keycaps aha.

I am definitely putting SMK switches in mine, but I'm going for the white MX-mount variety, which are clicky and feel just like Montereys only with the added bonus of supporting MX keycaps.  And on top of that there are still some Chinese sites like Taobao selling new old stock of these switches.  They must have had quite a cache of them.  But it's win-win for me.

[MxBlue]

My heart really wants to go for Monterey blues, because I'm an alps fanboy... That'd certainly be interesting.

Although I'll probably just find some linear oranges, just to say that I have an SMK custom board, and not have to fight to find decent keycaps aha.

I am definitely putting SMK switches in mine, but I'm going for the white MX-mount variety, which are clicky and feel just like Montereys only with the added bonus of supporting MX keycaps.  And on top of that there are still some Chinese sites like Taobao selling new old stock of these switches.  They must have had quite a cache of them.  But it's win-win for me.

Aussies have bought in hard into china's caches, which is why this board has SMK support 

[blacksimon]

Good luck bud, it's a great kit!

[MxBlue]

I was having the final talks with my factory and was just told they can not take order over $2000USD through Paypal, and would rather be paid through bank transfer.  What this means for me is that I'll have to eat various exchange fees.

What this means for anyone participating is that invoices will be in AUD, rather than USD. This helps me out immensely, because the fees for conversion sting quite a bit.

beamingrobot does something similar, have a quick read if you're interested: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92418.msg2518848#msg2518848

EDIT: My factory representative said he would discuss with the finance department about it after we give him final numbers again, so things may change again. I apologise for giving people the run-around, I spoke too soon on this matter.

[MxBlue]

A couple pics of the board, now that I've gotten the prototype PCB.






Here's a video of how the lightning works out, do note this plate has the older blocker cutout, and I have yet to tune the brightness of the blocker LED.
https://streamable.com/ob4c7

Here's a video of the new cutout:

The GB will close in a few hours, and invoices will be sent out after I receive confirmation from my factory on how they can accept payment.

[vewy_nice]

Looking nice!

I've never been a fan of underglow... But I might actually use it on this board

[MxBlue]

I managed to convince my manufacturer to let me pay for things in USD, so I have invoiced everyone as originally planned!

If you signed up, please check your emails and pay as soon as possible so we can avoid complications and proceed with the group buy.

Thanks!

[vewy_nice]

I'm excited the ball is rolling!

I wonder if they'll be done and shipped in time for me to bring it to Keycon   (It'd be REALLY close with the 2.5 month window.)
One can hope!

[MxBlue]

I'm excited the ball is rolling!

I wonder if they'll be done and shipped in time for me to bring it to Keycon   (It'd be REALLY close with the 2.5 month window.)
One can hope!

Oh crap, the pressure is on xD

As it currently stands, 18/24 people have paid their invoices, with 1 confirmed cancellation and 1 I need to follow up on. If anyone wants a base kit, or wanted to add a PCB or extra plate to their order, let me know.

Once I feel that our numbers are final, I'll send the money off to our factory (granted nothing to happens to freeze it between now and then). We'll put in orders for other small parts and packaging, and PCB once they're given a proper double check.

[vewy_nice]

Maybe give it a couple more days, then cut it off, and put "Extra slots available!" in the title, and require immediate payment, that should get you the numbers

[MxBlue]

I've started to put a slightly more formal update list on the main post, I'll do my best to remember to keep it up to date 

To summarise, we've placed orders for most things, est lead time of 3-4 wks. Once the arrive, there will be QC as well a few things that need to done prior to packing and shipment, so I'll keep the target delivery time as it is.

2 people dropped out of the GB, so I've opened up their slots, please consider filling the form if you missed out on the initial GB period.

Hope to bring you more updates soon!

[MxBlue]

Nearly a week has passed, and my factory has let me know that they have nearly finished the CNC stage for brass, which is followed up by the polishing stage (which takes a long time!).

A sneaky little pic

[superdoedoe]

[hervuli]

can someone educate me about SMK Orange switches? are they any good compared to the various MX linears that are out there (I'm currently obsessed with Silent Black stems in Zeal housings)? are there any reliable places to get them - I'm assuming NOS?

[MxBlue]

can someone educate me about SMK Orange switches? are they any good compared to the various MX linears that are out there (I'm currently obsessed with Silent Black stems in Zeal housings)? are there any reliable places to get them - I'm assuming NOS?

From what I heard, they're not the greatest linears, and they're fairly loud (quite different from your Zilent Blacks heh). If you wanted to buy em, probably want to hunt them on Taobao, there was a listing at one point, but I lost the link to it.

[hervuli]

can someone educate me about SMK Orange switches? are they any good compared to the various MX linears that are out there (I'm currently obsessed with Silent Black stems in Zeal housings)? are there any reliable places to get them - I'm assuming NOS?

From what I heard, they're not the greatest linears, and they're fairly loud (quite different from your Zilent Blacks heh). If you wanted to buy em, probably want to hunt them on Taobao, there was a listing at one point, but I lost the link to it.

hmm ok. i was kind of interested for the novelty of it, but that's not much of a sales pitch

[TechieWeirdo]

can someone educate me about SMK Orange switches? are they any good compared to the various MX linears that are out there (I'm currently obsessed with Silent Black stems in Zeal housings)? are there any reliable places to get them - I'm assuming NOS?

From what I heard, they're not the greatest linears, and they're fairly loud (quite different from your Zilent Blacks heh). If you wanted to buy em, probably want to hunt them on Taobao, there was a listing at one point, but I lost the link to it.

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.10.a0015567qACUoa&id=36560209301&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.17.a0015567qACUoa&id=540513185273&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.22.a0015567qACUoa&id=564177736190&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.37.a0015567qACUoa&id=553707792658&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.32.a0015567qACUoa&id=564693302314&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail

Here's a couple links for both white and orange SMK switches.

[MxBlue]

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.10.a0015567qACUoa&id=36560209301&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.17.a0015567qACUoa&id=540513185273&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.22.a0015567qACUoa&id=564177736190&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.37.a0015567qACUoa&id=553707792658&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.32.a0015567qACUoa&id=564693302314&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail

Here's a couple links for both white and orange SMK switches.

Nice!

I'll add these links to my collection 

[vewy_nice]

I'm still looking for NOS monty blues...

There's a NOS board with them on deskthority, but shipping is the same price as the board, coming from Europe to the USA.

I've set up like 6 alarms on eBay haha

[MxBlue]

Manufacture goes on, we're nearly finished the machining stage now, then we move on to finishing/manual labor stage.

Some pics of machining:



Raw machined poly case, and partially polished weight:



Still a slot open, for anyone interested 

I look forward to providing more good news!

[Captain Shwah]

Oh man, this is so cool. Thanks for the update!

[MxBlue]

Hey guys,

So first of all, a quick update on what's been going until now.

Cases, plates and weights have finished being machined, and are being hand finished before going on to the next stage of finishing. PCBs were awaiting components for assembly, but we discovered a flaw in the PCBs, namely that the stabiliser holes for the bottom row were in the wrong direction, so I promptly paid for another batch to be produced with the issue corrected, I am awaiting a sample of it before proceeding on that front.

The reason I have sent an email out is that there is an issue that needs attention, namely the finish on the brass components. To put it simply, my factory has overestimated their capabilities and have told me they are unable to gold electroplate the brass parts. As the prototype parts were only polished, we found this out only now.

The factory has offered an alternative coating, UV coating, for the brass parts, and has promptly sent me a plate with the finish for my observation. Visually, this coating is very similar to a tarnish-free, mirror finished brass look, and is even more fingerprint resistant. However there is one issue: small freckles under the coating. This is caused by particles of dust in the applicator used in the factory, and cannot be avoided in this case. While this is not very visible under most lighting and definitely not visible through the polycarbonate, it is present and visible under certain, specific lighting conditions. I am personally quite pleased with the look, since the dust only shows up in the worst of lighting, but it is only fair to make amends for the situation.

Here are some pics/comparisons between my tarnished prototype parts and the UV coated brass parts:

More

Another alternative I have been given by the factory is to have parts electroplated silver instead, a finish looking similar to this:

More

So the solution I propose is this:

1. You can choose to accept your parts UV coated, I will offer $10USD of credit towards shipping ($5/part).
2. You can have your parts just left polished, again, I offer $10USD of credit towards shipping ($5/part).
3. You can have your parts silver electroplated instead. (No credit in this case)

Check your Paypal email, or PM me in the case you don't have access to it, to get a link to the form to input your choices.

I hope this is enough recompense, and I apologise for this hiccup. Considering that I need to wait for replies, I'm extending the lead time buy another 2 weeks, putting us at the start of July, I will aim to wrap up faster than this (partially because I need my room back ).

Thanks,
Mx

EDIT: If anyone is interested, there's an extra brass plate up for grabs.

[Captain Shwah]

Whew, that silver electroplating is nice. Thanks for the thorough update!

[MxBlue]

Oh, and while I'm here, here'a pic of a fat stack of machined cases :

[vewy_nice]

Ooh, I do love me a good natural tarnish... Glad that's an option

[JubJubCity]

Will there be any extra's available, love the look of this board.   

[MxBlue]

Will there be any extra's available, love the look of this board.   

As it stands, we have will have about 4 extras, which will end up with a mix of UV coated and silver electroplated brass parts. More info will be available here afterwards

[JubJubCity]

Nice can't wait!