Author Topic: GH60 Group Buy (Salvage Mode: Enabled - Update in OP)  (Read 1615576 times)

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Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #450 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 13:14:17 »
I got some questions about stabilizers a few times so I'm adding this bit of info to the OP to show the difference in stabilizers and what a "set" includes:

Stabilizers

Costar (Filco, CM, WASDkeyboards, DAS, etc)
Cherry plate-mounted (Ducky, Leopold, etc)
Cherry PCB-mounted (Poker, Korean customs, etc)

17113-0 17115-1 17117-2





Also, I just added a poll. Depending on the results, it could affect the outcome of the GH60 production PCB, plates, or other options. Voice your opinions! If you think of a good question for the poll, let me know.

>POLL HERE<

Offline osxoep

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #451 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 13:42:03 »
Ah. I forgot to answer all the questions.

ISO layout ;)
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Offline funkymeeba

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #452 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 13:50:49 »
WASD backlighting is a neat idea, except that I use ESDF. :D
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Offline tlt

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #453 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 15:09:58 »
On the first post it says "Poker and Pure (must be plates with 1.25x modifier)" way is that? Can I use a universal ISO plate with a Pure CNC case?

Offline jdcarpe

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GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #454 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 15:14:22 »
On the first post it says "Poker and Pure (must be plates with 1.25x modifier)" way is that? Can I use a universal ISO plate with a Pure CNC case?

You can install a GH60 with any of the plates (or no plate) in a Pure CNC case with no problem.
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Offline tlt

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #455 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 15:18:00 »
Ok, great! Thanks for fast reply.

Offline Dubsgalore

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #456 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 19:21:58 »
going with costar i think :)
thanks for the pics WFD

Offline Rule16

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #457 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 23:03:10 »
6KRO is fine, the latency is fine. Improve your reaction time and stop blaming the equipments :p
I never blame the equipment except when the equipment is to blame. A few months ago I tested the theory of "6KRO is fine", by taking the PS/2 off of my Das and playing CS competitively with it. I noticed that my K/D was significantly less, thus proving my theory.

But 6KRO doesn't mean a maximum of 6 keys while you're playing...it means certain combinations of keys may only get you up to six. 

So how often did you run your test?  Did you do it blind?  Pretty poor "proof" of a theory...
No... My K/D was WORSE when using USB, please read the rest of the conversation when coming in late.
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Offline Rule16

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #458 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 23:07:17 »
6KRO is fine, the latency is fine. Improve your reaction time and stop blaming the equipments :p
I never blame the equipment except when the equipment is to blame. A few months ago I tested the theory of "6KRO is fine", by taking the PS/2 off of my Das and playing CS competitively with it. I noticed that my K/D was significantly less, thus proving my theory.

Have a friend randomly (with a generator/coin, not just deciding on his own) set up the board in either PS/2 or USB. Then have him record your k/d with a note as to the connection method. Repeat this a couple hundred times. You will not be told which was which until the end of the study.
You know a couple hundred games of competitive would take almost half right? I'm not going to do that.
Then your results will be worth looking at and not totally meaningless.
You know a couple hundred games of competitive would take almost half a year right?
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 March 2013, 23:20:39 by Rule16 »
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Offline CommunistWitchDr

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #459 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 23:17:09 »

Have a friend randomly (with a generator/coin, not just deciding on his own) set up the board in either PS/2 or USB. Then have him record your k/d with a note as to the connection method. Repeat this a couple hundred times. You will not be told which was which until the end of the study.
You know a couple hundred games of competitive would take almost half right? I'm not going to do that.
Then your results will be worth looking at and not totally meaningless.

Take... almost... half? What? Half of...

But yeah, a legit study isn't going to work with just one or two trials. You can scale it down to let's say 20 games each way and get pretty decent results. Maybe get some other test subjects so the results can be better generalized. Really anything that's not "I changed my keyboard connection and did bad so I undid it and hated it forever".

I guess there is a bit more objective and less trial heavy, but the code would be a pain. Maybe make something to stop any keypresses 6kro won't allow from reaching the game and record them. If nothing is recorded then there can't really be any issue. If anything is recorded, there is an issue.

Now it's possible it did have a negative impact on you. I would just genuinely like to see if it really did or was all in your head. The placebo effect is powerful.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 March 2013, 23:20:26 by CommunistWitchDr »

Offline Polymer

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #460 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 01:07:39 »
6KRO is fine, the latency is fine. Improve your reaction time and stop blaming the equipments :p
I never blame the equipment except when the equipment is to blame. A few months ago I tested the theory of "6KRO is fine", by taking the PS/2 off of my Das and playing CS competitively with it. I noticed that my K/D was significantly less, thus proving my theory.

But 6KRO doesn't mean a maximum of 6 keys while you're playing...it means certain combinations of keys may only get you up to six. 

So how often did you run your test?  Did you do it blind?  Pretty poor "proof" of a theory...
No... My K/D was WORSE when using USB, please read the rest of the conversation when coming in late.

I read that part..I'm saying your test was not proof of anything..How often did you play?  Did you know what you were using beforehand? 

Playing once or a couple of times and determining it was worse is worthless...I'm not even saying your actual result is not going to end up being what you think...but if you don't see how your testing method is flawed (or you're missing some detail there) then you don't understand how stats work...
« Last Edit: Fri, 29 March 2013, 01:09:18 by Polymer »

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #461 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 08:04:57 »
Okay, I'm all for open discussion, but this is starting to go beyond anything constructive or helpful to the group buy. So let me give you my thoughts on the goals of this project.

The GH60 is not a "gaming keyboard." It was designed by keyboard enthusiasts, for keyboard enthusiasts. It does not include "full LED backlighting," or "1000 Hz polling," or "full NRKO over PS/2," or whatever the latest marketing slogan is, that's designed to persuade gamers to spend more money on features that may or may not make any difference to gaming performance, and may or may not even be present in the keyboards advertising such features.

The GH60 is a fully programmable, 60% keyboard project with the ability for custom layout configurations to suit the user. At this point, it is not even a complete keyboard, as you still have to source a case and keycaps external to this GB. If this is what you are looking for, you have found it.

If you are looking for something else, more suited to a specific purpose, I would wish you good luck, and I hope you find that elusive keyboard you are looking for.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

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Offline mashby

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #462 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 08:09:51 »

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #463 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 08:26:40 »
Jdcarpe laying down the law...I like it :D

Offline Tym

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #464 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 08:34:23 »
Jdcarpe laying down the law...I like it :D

Took me hours, hope you like it!
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline jcrouse

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #465 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 08:34:52 »
Hooah

Offline Dubsgalore

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #466 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 08:58:06 »
^^^

Offline CommunistWitchDr

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #467 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 09:13:59 »
Why are people grouping backlighting with gaming marketing BS anyway? The number of people who could notice any of the gaming things like polling time is tiny if existent at all. I could show somebody who didn't know what a keyboard is backlighting and they'd imminently notice it. It looks nice.

I get that a lot of people don't want backlighting and that's all good. I don't even like it on all my boards. Just seems silly to have a full DIY custom keyboard and totally omit a large area of customization. You can choose your switches, your keys, your case, your plate, your layout. But if you want to choose a light screw you. Especially when not even through holes are there, so even if someone had the kind of time to hard wire it they couldn't backlight it. I mean I see no reason not to add through holes on all the keys if there's discussion of adding the holes to wasd. The hardest part of plotting out the spacing and the like is already done. It's not like you have to drill them by hand. I mean it's your buy and if you don't want to add anything I respect that, but it just seems silly when it would be so easy (Of course easy would just be through holes only, I'm sure real support would be a lot harder) to add.

Still probably gonna get one or two, but if it had backlighting I'd definitely get two or three.


If I can figure out how to space the bloody led holes in KiCAD I'll start my own buy. With blackjack and backlighting.
Going to wait till at least the end of this GB before I even look into this.
« Last Edit: Fri, 29 March 2013, 11:31:05 by CommunistWitchDr »

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #468 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 09:46:09 »
Blackjack?

I'm with jdcarpe re the GH60, but I have to say that if you want to do a GH60-LED group buy, you might very well get some takers.  Maybe quite a few.  Certainly the Chinese keyboard-makers do.

However, just adding the holes still leaves a huge amount of work to make a backlit keyboard.  So really what should happen is holes, traces, re-allocation of the PWM pins for LED control, and new firmware.

And again, if you (or anyone) did that, I imagine it would be a pretty successful group buy.

But if there is room for the holes (i.e. the traces are not in the way) then drilling the holes would be one of the easier parts of hard-wiring a full set of LEDs.  Place a switch, make two marks, punch the holes with a drill press and a very small bit.  Or make a template from an old backlit PCB.   Drop in LEDs.  Then run and insulate ground wires to every negative lead, run and insulate 3v wires to each positive lead, perhaps in patterns or separate circuits.  Add logic or physical switches to turn them off and on.  And you are done!

Seriously, this board doesn't have LED support, but your board might.  Will.  Go for it!  I'll buy a couple of PCBs.

 - Ron | samwisekoi


I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline CommunistWitchDr

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #469 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 09:57:09 »
Blackjack?

Bender (Futurama) quote.

As for the holes it's more of a "If you're holeing up WASD why stop there?" thing. If there wouldn't be WASD holes it would make more sense to leave the board hole free.

I'll do some work with the pcb (looks like I'll need a whole third copper layer, ugh), and hopefully someone who can code at all can help with the firmware after the pcb is ready. Ah well, enough of this here. Ill post in making stuff once I have a bit of the pcb done.

Offline Dubsgalore

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #470 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 10:02:35 »
i would only want a few LEDs on the number row, wasd, modifiers, etc. not the full board

Offline Turkishrambo

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #471 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 10:06:30 »
fuccckk, still deciding whati want., probably going to get 4 DIY pcbs, 4 pcb cherry stab sets, hhkb plate and 1.5 ansi plate

Offline Tym

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #472 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 10:07:49 »
Its always nice when someone makes you an avatar to say thank you :(.
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #473 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 10:19:46 »
Its always nice when someone makes you an avatar to say thank you :(.

Thank you!

Isn't the best thanks that the person is using it? :D
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

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Offline Tym

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #474 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 10:24:52 »
Its always nice when someone makes you an avatar to say thank you :(.

Thank you!

Isn't the best thanks that the person is using it? :D

True :D
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline keymaster

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #475 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 10:30:09 »
Okay, I'm all for open discussion, but this is starting to go beyond anything constructive or helpful to the group buy. So let me give you my thoughts on the goals of this project.

The GH60 is not a "gaming keyboard." It was designed by keyboard enthusiasts, for keyboard enthusiasts. It does not include "full LED backlighting," or "1000 Hz polling," or "full NRKO over PS/2," or whatever the latest marketing slogan is, that's designed to persuade gamers to spend more money on features that may or may not make any difference to gaming performance, and may or may not even be present in the keyboards advertising such features.

The GH60 is a fully programmable, 60% keyboard project with the ability for custom layout configurations to suit the user. At this point, it is not even a complete keyboard, as you still have to source a case and keycaps external to this GB. If this is what you are looking for, you have found it.

If you are looking for something else, more suited to a specific purpose, I would wish you good luck, and I hope you find that elusive keyboard you are looking for.

That was pretty badass..for a half-human, half-vulcan.

Offline clstyle

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #476 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 11:05:49 »
WHERE CAN I GET A HOUSING FOR MY GH60....
WHERE...HOW... :confused:

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #477 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 11:11:57 »
WHERE CAN I GET A HOUSING FOR MY GH60....
WHERE...HOW... :confused:

There is a list either in the OP here or in the IC thread's OP.

One of them will be from me.

17228-0
GH60++ modular case by samwisekoi.

In metal for Retro Green, Acrylic for traditionalists, and in White POM for Retro Blue.  Feet TBD.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
« Last Edit: Fri, 29 March 2013, 11:13:30 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline mashby

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #478 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 11:54:51 »
Woah. First I'm seeing of this and my-oh-my do I like!  :eek:

Do you have a thread regarding your design samwisekoi?

Offline gortloveslinux

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #479 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 12:14:07 »
Joined GH just for this :D! Ordered a universal ANSI plate, a board, and PCB cherry stabs. Planning to do a gh60 max keys setup (but want to be able to change my mind). Thank you guys for all the hard work!

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #480 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 12:34:10 »
Woah. First I'm seeing of this and my-oh-my do I like!  :eek:

Do you have a thread regarding your design samwisekoi?

Thanks and not yet.  Soon.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #481 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 12:50:21 »
There is a list either in the OP here or in the IC thread's OP.

One of them will be from me.

(Attachment Link)
GH60++ modular case by samwisekoi.

In metal for Retro Green, Acrylic for traditionalists, and in White POM for Retro Blue.  Feet TBD.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Show Image


Glad to hear your design is coming to fruition! I get so excited every time I see one of the new case designs. Thanks for sharing, Ron!
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Offline esoomenona

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #482 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 12:56:13 »
White POM case? I may have to get two of those! Good job, Ron.

Offline Dubsgalore

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #483 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 13:18:24 »
I am hoping I am get a white aluminum case. I really really really hope Whitefiredragon's aluminum case will have white as an option. It's the only one I know with a HHKB top :/

Offline funkymeeba

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #484 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 13:56:59 »
Order form is in! Can't wait for two custom boards. :D

Now to figure out keycaps...
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Offline Jmneuv

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #485 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 14:46:05 »
A few questions still haunt me:

# Are 6.25 off-center stem cherry spacebars possible?
# How stiff is the PCB, seeing there aren't that many mounting points?
# When using a plate, where would the plate rest on; is it slightly larger than the PCB so it could rest on a rim or does the plate actually rest on the pcb through the switches?

Thanks.

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #486 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 15:48:01 »
Yes Cherry style 6.25 space is possible, there is less flex than my Poker when typing on my prototype GH60.

Excited to see more about this white POM case. It's one of those things I have thought about pursuing for awhile but I don't have the know how to make 3D files for those kinds of things to have them made.

Offline tradet

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #487 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 16:32:33 »
I caved in and ordered. Exciting times! Now I need to find some nice keycaps. And a case.

Offline pix3l_fodder

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #488 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 05:34:34 »
jdcarpe, Is the poll going to affect the if WASD is going to be added to the GH60 board? Would be very cool to have that addition, does it detrimental effect on anything else on the board? I mean is there any reason for it not to be included if people who don't want the leds cant just not include them when they assemble the GH60?

Offline smnanthny

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #489 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 10:28:40 »
New user just for this thread ^_^ Order in!

Offline funkymeeba

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #490 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 10:43:10 »
Oh, I just realized something that might cause issues for me. What is an approximate time range that everything will be shipping? My apartment lease ends at the end of June, and while I'll be staying in the complex, I'll have a slightly different address to ship to.
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17:16 < vun> mostly because I can't get the bag open

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Offline duq

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GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #491 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 10:46:16 »
Oh, I just realized something that might cause issues for me. What is an approximate time range that everything will be shipping? My apartment lease ends at the end of June, and while I'll be staying in the complex, I'll have a slightly different address to ship to.

With how things are progressing seems you'll be fine updating your info at that time.

Offline jspark

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #492 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 11:31:21 »
I have placed my order at the first day, but I still don't get the invoice for the order. Aren't you sending invoices yet, or is it only I don't get it? Because of it, I don't know how much exactly and how to pay.
KBC Poker X Cherry MX Black switch
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Offline Sai

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #493 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 11:35:40 »
I have placed my order at the first day, but I still don't get the invoice for the order. Aren't you sending invoices yet, or is it only I don't get it? Because of it, I don't know how much exactly and how to pay.

As Stated in OP.

=================

 Ordering
 Deadline to submit order is Monday, 04/22/13, payment deadline is 05/13/13. You’ve been given the payment date almost 2 months in advance, so start planning your budget accordingly!

==================
- WTB/WTT - Cotton Candy Brobot V2

Offline 4814

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AW: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #494 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 11:42:55 »
Totally in for this GB! I'm just waiting for my WASD sample kit to finally decide which switches I take. :)

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #495 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 13:47:23 »
Excited to see more about this white POM case. It's one of those things I have thought about pursuing for awhile but I don't have the know how to make 3D files for those kinds of things to have them made.

Sheet POM (Delrin/acetal) is expensive to buy raw as well as to have laser-cut.  But it might be awesome cool.  Worth a try.

Here are some further renderings with a Poker/GH60 PCB shown in translucent green for reference.  FYI, the PCB is supported on all four edges as well as secured by two screws on the edges.  Additional support could easily be provided via stand-offs under the central mounting holes in the PCB.

These drawings are not to scale.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

« Last Edit: Sat, 30 March 2013, 13:49:19 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #496 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 14:02:47 »
Ron, I can add your case to the OP as well if you'd like. How likely is it to come to fruition? If you're going to add the two side screws, you might as well add center standoffs for a plate-less compatibility. Although, these small details should probably be discussed in a dedicated thread once you make one.

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #497 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 14:17:07 »
Ron, I can add your case to the OP as well if you'd like. How likely is it to come to fruition? If you're going to add the two side screws, you might as well add center standoffs for a plate-less compatibility. Although, these small details should probably be discussed in a dedicated thread once you make one.

Not yet, thanks.  I have not worked out inter-layer fastener placement.  Re internal stand-offs, I am planning to drill and tap holes in the base, but utilize individual stand-offs so the base plate can be laser cut.

 - Ron | samwisekoi


I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline Dubsgalore

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #498 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 14:38:14 »
Hey WFD,
if i order a hhkb layout, will the layout be a default hhkb to be progammed to what we want later? or will every gh60 come with no designations on each switch?

Offline Kabuks

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Re: GH60 Group Buy
« Reply #499 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 16:11:25 »
Seems like people are really coming out of the woodwork for this GB. :p