Designing the next Topre keycap set

[sth]

I don’t really like the price but if I don’t support this initiative, we’ll not see the light of any future projects by Topre. We have to make this successful!

i don't believe that's true

[jdcarpe]

Do we know for sure we doin this at Massdrop's house?

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/custom-topre-keycap-set

there ya go

Please to always append "?mode=guest_open" at the end of all Massdrop links. Thanks!

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/custom-topre-keycap-set?mode=guest_open

[redskull]

so what keys will be missing for a HHKB compatibility? wish we could just get the gamer sets seperately. 

[btctopre]

so what keys will be missing for a HHKB compatibility? wish we could just get the gamer sets seperately. 

Right now, for technically-accurate legends- 1.75u L_Ctrl, 1.5u R_Del/BS, 1.75u R_Shift, 1u R_Function. For a functioning set, it just needs the L_Ctrl though so you can put L_Caps where R_Shift goes without having to use the novelty blue key. Be the usual incorrect height profile though.

[iamtootallforthis]

Tempted to get this set but no compatibility is killing me.

[Jedi]

Glad I'm in on this buy.  Been staring at a dark 87U for far too long.  Hey Matt3o, will there be enough keys to fit the 23U numpad?  I'm certain I will have a 104 eventually, but for now its the 87U and 23U for me.  Thanks for getting this set to the group buy stage.

[romevi]

Glad I'm in on this buy.  Been staring at a dark 87U for far too long.  Hey Matt3o, will there be enough keys to fit the 23U numpad?  I'm certain I will have a 104 eventually, but for now its the 87U and 23U for me.  Thanks for getting this set to the group buy stage.

I feel ya. I love the 87UB but cannot stand the dark-on-dark caps. If I can buy the Anniversary Edition I would.

The only issue with the numpad is the extra row on top and the 0-00 instead of the large 0. You can put the other buttons on there, though.

[btctopre]

Note that the add-on WASD/Arrow/Esc sets look like they'll be the standard Topre profile/legends, so they won't match-up with this matt3o set (still a really good value at $15 though).

[a_ak57]

Glad I'm in on this buy.  Been staring at a dark 87U for far too long.  Hey Matt3o, will there be enough keys to fit the 23U numpad?  I'm certain I will have a 104 eventually, but for now its the 87U and 23U for me.  Thanks for getting this set to the group buy stage.

Well, you'd have to use the WASD + arrow keys from the extras kit so it'd look weird but you'd have enough.  The 0 key on the 23U is split and they have single unit plus/minus keys instead of the traditional 2U plus key, then there's the 4 single unit keys for the top row so you'd need 8 single unit keys.  Though I dunno how they'd line up in terms of profile.

BTW matt3o, are the blue keys the same as the limited edition ctrl set/your spacebar or are they actually as dark as they look?  And did I miss it or are there no renders for the other colors for the extras kit?  If there aren't renders, can you describe what the colors will be like?  Like is the green a lime green, forest green, etc.

[HoffmanMyster]

I've been wayyyy out of the loop on this whole venture, so pardon the uninformed questions.

I see that the colorway has been selected and is up on Massdrop; is it only available with the icon-only modifier legends?  Will this be the trend moving forward with any future sets?  Is there hope of additional colorways in the (hopefully near) future?  Is there any chance of full HHKB and FC660C support?  (I think I saw matt3o mention that RealForce was not interested at this time, but I'm in denial )

Regardless, I am super excited to see this happening at all. 

[iamtootallforthis]

I've been wayyyy out of the loop on this whole venture, so pardon the uninformed questions.

I see that the colorway has been selected and is up on Massdrop; is it only available with the icon-only modifier legends?  Will this be the trend moving forward with any future sets?  Is there hope of additional colorways in the (hopefully near) future?  Is there any chance of full HHKB and FC660C support?  (I think I saw matt3o mention that RealForce was not interested at this time, but I'm in denial )

Regardless, I am super excited to see this happening at all. 

I can't answer all your questions, but Matt30 fought for HHKB and FC660C support but they were a no go for this buy but I don't think they are off the table. The additional colorways in the future seem to be a thing as hinted in the Massdrop page.

[tofgerl]

I don't mind the price one bit, it's well worth it. But I mind waiting 8 months!

Of course, I only have a 660C, so I won't get this anyway.

[Matt3o]

I see that the colorway has been selected and is up on Massdrop; is it only available with the icon-only modifier legends?  Will this be the trend moving forward with any future sets?  Is there hope of additional colorways in the (hopefully near) future?  Is there any chance of full HHKB and FC660C support?  (I think I saw matt3o mention that RealForce was not interested at this time, but I'm in denial )

- icon-only
- next set will be hopefully different (more color options)
- HHKB and FC660C is a must if they want my support

I don't mind the price one bit, it's well worth it. But I mind waiting 8 months!

I totally agree.

Glad I'm in on this buy.  Been staring at a dark 87U for far too long.  Hey Matt3o, will there be enough keys to fit the 23U numpad?  I'm certain I will have a 104 eventually, but for now its the 87U and 23U for me.  Thanks for getting this set to the group buy stage.

Well, you'd have to use the WASD + arrow keys from the extras kit so it'd look weird but you'd have enough.  The 0 key on the 23U is split and they have single unit plus/minus keys instead of the traditional 2U plus key, then there's the 4 single unit keys for the top row so you'd need 8 single unit keys.  Though I dunno how they'd line up in terms of profile.

BTW matt3o, are the blue keys the same as the limited edition ctrl set/your spacebar or are they actually as dark as they look?  And did I miss it or are there no renders for the other colors for the extras kit?  If there aren't renders, can you describe what the colors will be like?  Like is the green a lime green, forest green, etc.

All colors are original. The blue is pretty deep.

Regarding the gamer-sets, they are the usual Topre colors. Those are not designed by me.

Note that the add-on WASD/Arrow/Esc sets look like they'll be the standard Topre profile/legends, so they won't match-up with this matt3o set (still a really good value at $15 though).

The whole set should be in Topre profile... unless I'm missing something

[btctopre]

The whole set should be in Topre profile... unless I'm missing something

You're not. ripster wrote that it was Cherry profile (and looked like he was quoting something you wrote), I see you've corrected him fortunately though.

What about the swappable Ctrl/Caps keys? And TKL compatibility keys (specifically the left Ctrl with horizontal stem)? They're currently missing from the mockup, but I didn't see an answer as to why on here/reddit/DT/MD (though I know you previously said TKL would be included).

[byker]

I am going to have to pass, due to the lack of hhkb support, the legends, and the colours aren't my favourite. Thanks for your work on this though matt3o.

[Matt3o]

a Ctrl/Caps swap is not included, nobody actually requested it during the prototyping phase.

[ccc24]

no option for stand alone pbt spacebars

[HoffmanMyster]

I see that the colorway has been selected and is up on Massdrop; is it only available with the icon-only modifier legends?  Will this be the trend moving forward with any future sets?  Is there hope of additional colorways in the (hopefully near) future?  Is there any chance of full HHKB and FC660C support?  (I think I saw matt3o mention that RealForce was not interested at this time, but I'm in denial )

- icon-only
- next set will be hopefully different (more color options)
- HHKB and FC660C is a must if they want my support

Thanks for the response, matt3o!  Unfortunately it is a pass for me, for exactly the reasons byker listed.    I look forward to the next set though. 

I am going to have to pass, due to the lack of hhkb support, the legends, and the colours aren't my favourite. Thanks for your work on this though matt3o.

[potatowire]

a Ctrl/Caps swap is not included, nobody actually requested it during the prototyping phase.

Damn it! I knew there was something I forgot to ask about!

[Bucake]

a Ctrl/Caps swap is not included, nobody actually requested it during the prototyping phase.

actually..


i'm passing because the yellow is not yellow enough, the white is way too white, and i would miss the swappable ctrl and caps lock

thanks matt3o, looking forward to future sets!

[btctopre]

a Ctrl/Caps swap is not included, nobody actually requested it during the prototyping phase.

and the LCtrl for an 87U (apologies if its been answered somewhere already)?

I'm really not trying to be difficult, just bring clarity because the standard Realforce compatibility keycaps aren't visible in the picture:


Missing-
Non-windowed Caps key for 104U (not necessary, but the window does detract from aesthetics)
Windowed Num Lock key for 87U (somewhat necessary, but not really)
Windowed horizontal-stem Ctrl Key for 87U (necessary)

And these are what I'd be referring to (windowed keycaps are 87U, non-windowed are 104U):

[livingspeedbump]

I am going to have to pass, due to the lack of hhkb support, the legends, and the colours aren't my favourite. Thanks for your work on this though matt3o.

Same with me.

[intelli78]

No HHKB or Leopold support is a real head scratcher. It is such an incremental effort to include those and it dramatically increases the pool of buyers. 

I agree... but what can I do?

It sounds like you have already done what you can to convince them, and we all appreciate how much work you've put into this. Frustrating that they won't listen to reason. I hope the buy is a success anyway! I don't own an RF anymore but I will likely buy a set just to support you and future opportunities.

[Belfong]

Hey guys, if everyone passed and this failed, we are doomed for future projects. From Topre point of view this is a community driven project and yet the support is lackluster?

[nmur]

No HHKB or Leopold support is a real head scratcher. It is such an incremental effort to include those and it dramatically increases the pool of buyers. 

I agree... but what can I do?

It sounds like you have already done what you can to convince them, and we all appreciate how much work you've put into this. Frustrating that they won't listen to reason. I hope the buy is a success anyway! I don't own an RF anymore but I will likely buy a set just to support you and future opportunities.

I think it's possible that perhaps Topre would want this keyset to encourage purchases of Realforce keyboards. If they added HHKB/Leopold support, people would perhaps buy this keyset and pick up a HHKB instead or something.

I don't really know about that sort of stuff tho.

[atectatifern]

I think it's possible that perhaps Topre would want this keyset to encourage purchases of Realforce keyboards. If they added HHKB/Leopold support, people would perhaps buy this keyset and pick up a HHKB instead or something.

I guess that's one way to look at it. Another way is that people, seeing that Topre cap options are limited and Topre is doing its best to restrict innovative keysets to Realforce keyboards, might choose a Topre clone like RK or Noppoo. And Topre manufacturers the switches for the HHKB anyway. Hard to understand what they're actually accomplishing by limiting set compatibility.

[btctopre]

just bumping this up again so matt sees it. current keyset mockup is missing three compatibility keycaps (mentioned previously), with the most critical one being the left ctrl key pictured below.

lctrl 104u vs lctrl 87u:

[Belfong]

I am wondering if this is something that can be recreated today, if I have the following:
1. Realforce 87 black keyboard
2. HHKB printed white alphas
3. Realforce 104 yellow printed set.

I think I am missing the white |\ key. And of course that red Enter.

[Vimto]

I would love to get these, but I have 2 HHKB's don't have any Realforce keyboards.
Looking forward to the next set and hopefully some HHKB compatibility.

[Charizard]

Show Image

Well it certainly does look good in the black case as well :)  Now I just need to wait to hear what the situation with TKL support is...

[redskull]

so what keys will be missing for a HHKB compatibility? wish we could just get the gamer sets seperately. 

Right now, for technically-accurate legends- 1.75u L_Ctrl, 1.5u R_Del/BS, 1.75u R_Shift, 1u R_Function. For a functioning set, it just needs the L_Ctrl though so you can put L_Caps where R_Shift goes without having to use the novelty blue key. Be the usual incorrect height profile though.

ah, thanks man. confirms my choice to not get in on this right now.

[durainello]

No offense but i feels dumb buying this for my 87UW.

[Matt3o]

just bumping this up again so matt sees it. current keyset mockup is missing three compatibility keycaps (mentioned previously), with the most critical one being the left ctrl key pictured below.

lctrl 104u vs lctrl 87u:

Show Image

Both versions are included. I'll make MD show that.

[Weltschmerz]

Hey guys, if everyone passed and this failed, we are doomed for future projects. From Topre point of view this is a community driven project and yet the support is lackluster?

We all know that Matt3o put a bunch of work into it, and everyone appreciates that, but I don't think you should support something you don't like just because you want more support in general. I wouldn't go out of my way to buy keysets that I don't like just for the sake of mechanical keyboards, nor should you. I hope to see more colorways and a more classic Realforce font on future sets. I'm sure those would sell faster than the icon sets, which imo, look pretty terrible.

[sth]

Hey guys, if everyone passed and this failed, we are doomed for future projects. From Topre point of view this is a community driven project and yet the support is lackluster?

We all know that Matt3o put a bunch of work into it, and everyone appreciates that, but I don't think you should support something you don't like just because you want more support in general. I wouldn't go out of my way to buy keysets that I don't like just for the sake of mechanical keyboards, nor should you. I hope to see more colorways and a more classic Realforce font on future sets. I'm sure those would sell faster than the icon sets, which imo, look pretty terrible.

agreed, please dont forget that topre is not a charity nor do they exist to benefit the community -- they're just taking a chance at collaborating in order to sell a special product to enthusiasts. at the end of the day topre is a large for-profit corporation and this is a drop in the bucket for them (seriously, go to their website and tell me if you think the bulk of their revenue has anything to do with realforces).

[rowdy]

Remember that this keyset is supposed to be something different, hence the colourway, plus the icon legends.

This is how it is supposed to be.

[Matt3o]

Remember that this keyset is supposed to be something different, hence the colourway, plus the icon legends.

This is how it is supposed to be.

listen to the guy!

[Weltschmerz]

Remember that this keyset is supposed to be something different, hence the colourway, plus the icon legends.

This is how it is supposed to be.

listen to the guy!

Oops! I never saw that part. I think that it's awesome that they are collaborating with the community to provide a new keyset, but it's just different strokes for different folks, I guess. I could never see myself buying a symbol keycap set, I just can't appreciate the font. I hope to see more topre (and alps) keysets in the future, with even more crazy options!

[linuxhermit]

Bought this as soon as could. love it. Matt3o thanks for all the work and effort.

[HoffmanMyster]

Remember that this keyset is supposed to be something different, hence the colourway, plus the icon legends.

This is how it is supposed to be.

Thank you for that. Very interesting. I know they don't exist to please our small community, but it is interesting that they want something so different when they have loads of people lining up to purchase the "standard" colored sets of their caps... Seems like it would be wise to satisfy that market while also trying something a bit innovative. But what do I know, I have no idea what their business looks like. 

[Belfong]

I am wondering if this is something that can be recreated today, if I have the following:
1. Realforce 87 black keyboard
2. HHKB printed white alphas
3. Realforce 104 yellow printed set.

I think I am missing the white |\ key. And of course that red Enter.

I hope Matt3o does not mind me putting a real life poor man’s replica:

[HoffmanMyster]

I am wondering if this is something that can be recreated today, if I have the following:
1. Realforce 87 black keyboard
2. HHKB printed white alphas
3. Realforce 104 yellow printed set.

I think I am missing the white |\ key. And of course that red Enter.

I hope Matt3o does not mind me putting a real life poor man’s replica:

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

I guarantee that cost more than this.  :)) :P

[Belfong]

That’s the point! This drop is cheap, really cheap!

[btctopre]

Both versions are included. I'll make MD show that.

Gracias, thanks a ton for relieving that concern. The drop did say TKL support at the bottom, but tbh I'm not too confident in MD's Topre competency, so just wanted to make sure.

[Matt3o]

I hope Matt3o does not mind me putting a real life poor man’s replica:

please note that the yellow is darker (more orangy) and dark gray is lighter.

[chiefgrillz]

Remember that this keyset is supposed to be something different, hence the colourway, plus the icon legends.
This is how it is supposed to be.

ok.. i have to ask this because i cant wrap my head around it.

how is this so different/original if it's so well known that you say "skull squadron" and everyone knows what it is?

https://www.google.nl/search?tbm=isch&q=skull+squadron+keycaps

the legends are original, sure, but the color scheme?

[Glenmael]

Remember that this keyset is supposed to be something different, hence the colourway, plus the icon legends.
This is how it is supposed to be.

ok.. i have to ask this because i cant wrap my head around it.

how is this so different/original if it's so well known that you say "skull squadron" and everyone knows what it is?

https://www.google.nl/search?tbm=isch&q=skull+squadron+keycaps

the legends are original, sure, but the color scheme?

Original to the Topre world

[durainello]

It's already PITA to keep the original keycaps white, can't imagine with this one.

[Elrick]

please note that the yellow is darker (more orangy) and dark gray is lighter.

You will always have the real problem of showing on the web the right shades because I have bought all your previous designs and on the web page, they looked either too dark or too light and faded, which is completely wrong.

When the actual key-caps arrived they looked very different indeed and they actually are perfect in front of you, so be aware that not all cameras and lcd screens will take the precise colour shade when showing his sets but do know that Matt is a designer and he knows what looks good.

Far better to have some trust here because he isn't a noob designing his very first key-set here  .

[Elrick]

It's already PITA to keep the original keycaps white, can't imagine with this one.

Just stop picking your nose and typing with your boogers, not nice sunshine  .

I always wash my hands before using my White Thorpies, hence no chance of dirtying them.  Despite working in a greasy workshop all day/night long,  still manage to clean myself up before using any keyboard within my possession.