Author Topic: Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases  (Read 3923 times)

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Offline hKing

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Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases
« on: Fri, 04 March 2016, 16:20:40 »
Hello there,
recently I bought some alu-cases for my custom builds.

One was a cheap chinese knock-off for 100 USD. The other one was a special one made for kbdmania back in 2013 - I paid 220 USD.
Both are 60%.

I had no problem with the first case. It was fine, but the color is came with wasn't my type. So I had it reanodized in matte black. When I got it back, it had some strange patches all over the case. I just looked f'ing ugly and I was shocked. At first, I tought the anodizing company has ****ed this thing up and I talked to the guy. He said that there's no problem with the anodizing - the problem was the alloy composition of which the case is made of. So I looked it up and my problem is called "Coarse Grains":


(http://www.rohde-technics.de/en/surface-treatment/eloxal/brief-specialist-information/)

The second case, a "real korean custom made 1337"-case I bought for a whopping 220 USD had a similar issue. If you hold this case up to the light, you can clearly see something that is called "Web Marks":


(http://www.rohde-technics.de/en/surface-treatment/eloxal/brief-specialist-information/)

There are straight lines all around the case, it just looks disgusting...
I talked to my local anodizing company and to another one just to make sure. They all said to me that they could re-anodize it as many times as I want to - those Web Marks won't go away because it is again a problem with the aluminum alloy.

So, I really don't now what to do now. I am really into this aluminum stuff, theoretically it looks awesome!
But when I receive a custom case - no matter if cheap or expensive - is it too much to expect quality?

It is OK for me if a cheap case isn' that perfect - but a high-end korean custom case?

Maybe someone here who has some anodized cases can give me some input. Maybe someone here has the same problems???
I think about talking to a local powder-coating company to clean this mess once and for all...

Dude, I am really disappointed. Or maybe my expectations were too high...  :(






(I don't have pictures of the actual cases because they are matte black and my IPhone4-Cam is crap. But I think you get the idea with the pictures above!)







Offline appleonama

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Re: Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 04 March 2016, 16:37:23 »
You should try pm'ing photoelectric.
He had his case re anodized he can probably give you more details


https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=27585
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 March 2016, 16:38:59 by appleonama »

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 04 March 2016, 17:09:37 »
It would help if you did post detailed photos.  You said patches, which makes me think of handling errors.

In general, there are multiple reasons for uneven dye penetration (freshly anodized surface is porous until sealed, and that's where dye penetrates).  One could be that people at the anodizing shop handled the case, between anodizing and dying, which can result in fingerprint marks and blotches where the case was touched. Another reason would be uneven anodizing thickness, which is a factor of finish and whether the case was dipped uniformly in the the anodizing bath.  Re-anodizing repeatedly can wear out the original finish texture and result in some things like those horizontal lines.  My LZ-GH case has been re-anodized a couple times, with an acid bath eating away the old anodized finish in between, and I can see those lines at some angle along the sides.  They are possibly from the original CNC cutting or the way the alloy microstructure happens to be.  I've handled another reanodized LZ-GH, and that one too had some faint horizontal lines around the edges, which reinforced that idea.   So this is not something to do with the case being cheap.  If you want top notch anodized finish, the surface needs to be prepared afresh (like bead blasting) and then anodized and dyed uniformly.  Otherwise these problems with uniform finish can arise.

(On top of that, I've read a bunch in the past about people doing their own anodizing, and they frequently shared that some dyes worked better than others for them or were more or less temperamental in terms of water temperature and pH.  Presumably your shop knows about it already, but could be the case that the dye did not penetrate uniformly and well enough).

I don't know about the processes described in on the page you've linked to--I'm not a material science specialist--could be additional factors at play of course, such as uniformity of alloy composition and such.  But the fact that you got the case in a uniform color and then re-anodizing made the result non-uniform, I'd consider checking how the shop removed the original anodized layer (whether it was sufficiently well removed), how well they left the dye penetrate after anodizing, whether they handled the piece in between.
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 March 2016, 17:12:06 by Photoelectric »
- Keyboards: LZ-GH (Jailhouse Blues)M65-a, MIRA SE, E8-V1, MOON TKL, CA66
- Keyboard Case Painting Tips -
- Join Mechanical Keyboards photography group on Flickr -

Offline hKing

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Re: Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 04 March 2016, 17:13:00 »
Thanks for your input.
I just checked your pictures and found one that pictures my problem:



Look at the frame, you'll see a slight discoloration (sort of) / line.

I really don't know what to do now, the case is already at my local powder-coating company. I really don't like those lines, they look so damn cheap - especially on a matte black case ...  :-[
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 March 2016, 17:18:35 by hKing »

Offline Signature

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Re: Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 04 March 2016, 17:17:28 »
It would help if you did post detailed photos.  You said patches, which makes me think of handling errors.

In general, there are multiple reasons for uneven dye penetration (freshly anodized surface is porous until sealed, and that's where dye penetrates).  One could be that people at the anodizing shop handled the case, between anodizing and dying, which can result in fingerprint marks and blotches where the case was touched. Another reason would be uneven anodizing thickness, which is a factor of finish and whether the case was dipped uniformly in the the anodizing bath.  Re-anodizing repeatedly can wear out the original finish texture and result in some things like those horizontal lines.  My LZ-GH case has been re-anodized a couple times, with an acid bath eating away the old anodized finish in between, and I can see those lines at some angle along the sides.  They are possibly from the original CNC cutting or the way the alloy microstructure happens to be.  I've handled another reanodized LZ-GH, and that one too had some faint horizontal lines around the edges, which reinforced that idea.   So this is not something to do with the case being cheap.  If you want top notch anodized finish, the surface needs to be prepared afresh (like bead blasting) and then anodized and dyed uniformly.  Otherwise these problems with uniform finish can arise.

(On top of that, I've read a bunch in the past about people doing their own anodizing, and they frequently shared that some dyes worked better than others for them or were more or less temperamental in terms of water temperature and pH.  Presumably your shop knows about it already, but could be the case that the dye did not penetrate uniformly and well enough).

I don't know about the processes described in on the page you've linked to--I'm not a material science specialist--could be additional factors at play of course, such as uniformity of alloy composition and such.  But the fact that you got the case in a uniform color and then re-anodizing made the result non-uniform, I'd consider checking how the shop removed the original anodized layer (whether it was sufficiently well removed), how well they left the dye penetrate after anodizing, whether they handled the piece in between.
I always thought that you used lye for removing anodizing, not acid baths :rolleyes:
Very busy with studies atm.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 04 March 2016, 17:28:35 »
They had giant vats of stripping stuff at the anodizing place, and I thought they told me it was acid, but it's been a long time since then.  Just looked it up, and people say the following:

"There is a mixture of chromic acid + phosphoric acid that strips anodize only and limits the attack on the base material, but it's got to be used in excess of 150 °F, so it's probably too much out of range for average user needs"

It could well be that they did use a lye solution.
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 March 2016, 17:32:18 by Photoelectric »
- Keyboards: LZ-GH (Jailhouse Blues)M65-a, MIRA SE, E8-V1, MOON TKL, CA66
- Keyboard Case Painting Tips -
- Join Mechanical Keyboards photography group on Flickr -

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 04 March 2016, 17:31:07 »
Thanks for your input.
I just checked your pictures and found one that pictures my problem:

Look at the frame, you'll see a slight discoloration (sort of) / line.

I really don't know what to do now, the case is already at my local powder-coating company. I really don't like those lines, they look so damn cheap - especially on a matte black case ...  :-[

The only thing you can do in this case is to refinish the case prior to anodizing.  Or go with clear anodizing (plain silver, no dye).  My case is a lighter color now than on that photograph, and I only see the lines at certain angles and illumination, but that's the side effect of serial reanodizing.
- Keyboards: LZ-GH (Jailhouse Blues)M65-a, MIRA SE, E8-V1, MOON TKL, CA66
- Keyboard Case Painting Tips -
- Join Mechanical Keyboards photography group on Flickr -

Offline hKing

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Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 04 March 2016, 17:38:54 »
... or powder-coat it and don't deal with those problems at all ?!?

Do you think clear-anodize would help ?
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 March 2016, 17:40:34 by hKing »

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 04 March 2016, 17:43:58 »
Sure, powdercoating could work.  Clear anodizing means there's no dye of varying intensity if anodized layer is not uniform and the surface texture is not uniform, so you could possibly see the lines in some lighting conditions, but they wouldn't be obvious like they are with dark dyes.  It will be basic silver with whatever texture it currently has.
- Keyboards: LZ-GH (Jailhouse Blues)M65-a, MIRA SE, E8-V1, MOON TKL, CA66
- Keyboard Case Painting Tips -
- Join Mechanical Keyboards photography group on Flickr -

Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 04 March 2016, 19:24:42 »
If you want a probably cheaper option I understand that some people have their case hydro dipped.



Morbidstix.com

I can't speak of the durability but this would eliminate any abnormalities on the surface of your case.

More Info from GH: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76918.msg1931702#msg1931702

Edit - There is a drop down box under Search The Site for currency. Germany is on the top of that list  ;)
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 March 2016, 19:28:25 by csmertx »

Offline hKing

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Re: Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 05:49:10 »
I decided to let the company powder-coat the case in matte black.

I just don't want to deal with the crappy visual appeal of this anodized aluminum...

Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Question regarding anodized keyboard-cases
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 10:07:53 »
I imagine that case will outlive the components now  :eek: nice