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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: daerid on Sun, 11 August 2013, 02:23:24

Title: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: daerid on Sun, 11 August 2013, 02:23:24
(http://i.imgur.com/5WZ5b3e.png)

What?
Essentially all the keys of the ErgoDox, in a 70% (ish - 76 keys to be exact) form factor. This keeps the same symmetrically staggered layout, but moves the thumb cluster up into the center and uses a single board/case/pcb/whatever.

Why?
I love the form factor of the ErgoDox. My fingers have never been happier, nor more relaxed. However, the ErgoDox isn't necessarily the most travel-friendly board. It's multiple pieces and extra cable make it a bit awkward to just toss in a laptop bag. This board would keep most of the benefits of the ErgoDox, giving up only the thumb clusters and dual-piece construction. It has exactly the same amount of switches as the standard ErgoDox.

How?
Probably by modifying the official ErgoDox PCB and case files. Unless of course there's somebody who'd want to help out in redesigning the PCB for this to be as compact as possible (since currently I have precisely zero PCB design experience). At some point I'll order a couple prototype PCB's and case, throw some switches in there and see what happens.

You're nuts. This will never work
You shut your mouth. Even if it doesn't, it'll be a fun learning experience.

This is currently just an idea tumbling around in my head, but I really want to try and get a prototype together.

PS: Layout above made by hacking shamelessly on mohitgarg's ErgoDox Layout Sheets (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46456.0)
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: Moosecraft on Sun, 11 August 2013, 04:21:06
Interetsed, your travel problems are exactly why I don't own an ergodox and as a gamer I need to be able to type with one hand sometimed.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 11 August 2013, 04:27:39
I quite love the idea.

For me and maybe you as well this would not be an ErgoDox replacement, but an ErgoTrav. An Ergodox morph for those who need to carry their keyboard to work and elsewhere, are too used to the epic comfort of the Ergodox (Even ErgoGP soon) that they NEED something similar for their laptop.

Brilliant idea, I'm not to quite sure of the comfort right now, I could help you out with the case designing. Let me know.

And it is not shamelessly hacking sir, when I mentioned anyone is free to use it
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 11 August 2013, 04:38:40
How about a swivel plate at the back, split in the middle, like the Cherry Ergo Plus.

Infact, what you can have is a dual plate, one for sliding laterally, the other to adjust angle.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: kurplop on Sun, 11 August 2013, 06:13:29
Somebody once accused me of defeating the purpose of the ErgoDox design by joining the halves in a tray. You're really asking for it with this alteration.

Actually , I see the benefit in this design for travel use. Portability plus the ability of using a layout similar to one used at home or office. Would it be that much bulkier to simply join the halves in a wood enclosure similar to mine or attach them somehow? That way you keep everything in a single unit without losing the ergo benefit of the thumb clusters.

You have me curious about what you see as the key features of the ErgoDox. I find the reduced pronation and ulnar deviation from tenting and skewing the halves to be its primary ergonomic feature.

Here are some rudimentary ideas I was thinking about.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kurplop/sets/72157635024746536/

Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: Larken on Sun, 11 August 2013, 07:30:58
Quote from: kurplop on Sun, 11 August 2013, 06:13:29

You have me curious about what you see as the key features of the ErgoDox. I find the reduced pronation and ulnar deviation from tenting and skewing the halves to be its primary ergonomic feature.


that was actually my first thought when I saw the proposed design - the reduction in ulnar deviation does wonders for me ergonomically. I would think that joining the two halves together is an idea that can go either way, but tilting it inwards is something I wouldn't do without. Of course, that would make it something like an extended catboard.

http://catboard.klava.org/

@daerid - for a one off, you might want to considering handwiring instead. If done like that, you could start with just getting a custom acrylic plate cut first.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 11 August 2013, 07:34:33
To me this looks like a combination of the Typematrix and Truly Ergonomic.  Not saying that's a bad thing, but it's the first thing that came to mind when I saw this creation.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 11 August 2013, 11:56:14
If you are not making it so that it splits, or is skewed, then I think that the wrist angles are worse than QWERTY.
For an ergo compact keyboard, I think that symmetric stagger would be better.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: daerid on Sun, 11 August 2013, 12:13:25
Since I used my ErgoDox non tilted anyways I don't think this would be a problem for me
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: TheQsanity on Sun, 11 August 2013, 15:13:46
pweeettty cwooo :cool:
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: jwaz on Sun, 11 August 2013, 15:15:20
I have to agree with the split sentiment. If it was on a track that you could adjust this would be really cool.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: AcidFire on Mon, 12 August 2013, 01:46:34
I may have to work with you on this if you're interested, my existing PCB design could be added to (a new PCB for the center keys) with minimal effort, and I've been looking at different ways of building a more travel friendly version.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: Thimplum on Mon, 12 August 2013, 07:34:42
(http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/b/b3/Kevin-Butler-Mind-Blown.gif)

I may be able to help you out with the case. It looks a lot better than typmatrix.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: agodinhost on Mon, 12 August 2013, 08:38:07
Just to keep your spirits up man: awesome!
 :D
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 12 August 2013, 09:47:47
Quote from: AcidFire on Mon, 12 August 2013, 01:46:34
I may have to work with you on this if you're interested, my existing PCB design could be added to (a new PCB for the center keys) with minimal effort, and I've been looking at different ways of building a more travel friendly version.

And you can are the best candidate for designing the split design with swivel and ability to extend them apart. I vote for AcidFire.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: daerid on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:04:25
Still going to move ahead with the one piece. A split design doesn't really appeal to me (I already have one ErgoDox with another on the way). AcidFire is more than welcome to work on a split/swivel design, but something tells me he might have his hands full with the ErgoGP
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:31:43
Quote from: daerid on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:04:25
Still going to move ahead with the one piece. A split design doesn't really appeal to me (I already have one ErgoDox with another on the way). AcidFire is more than welcome to work on a split/swivel design, but something tells me he might have his hands full with the ErgoGP

Do you want help with the plate?
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: Thimplum on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:40:44
Quote from: mohitgarg on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:31:43
Quote from: daerid on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:04:25
Still going to move ahead with the one piece. A split design doesn't really appeal to me (I already have one ErgoDox with another on the way). AcidFire is more than welcome to work on a split/swivel design, but something tells me he might have his hands full with the ErgoGP

Do you want help with the plate?

I can also help with the plate.

I have a small amount of experience in PCB design, but I've never made a keyboard before.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:44:36
Quote from: Thimplum on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:40:44
Quote from: mohitgarg on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:31:43
Quote from: daerid on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:04:25
Still going to move ahead with the one piece. A split design doesn't really appeal to me (I already have one ErgoDox with another on the way). AcidFire is more than welcome to work on a split/swivel design, but something tells me he might have his hands full with the ErgoGP

Do you want help with the plate?

I can also help with the plate.

I have a small amount of experience in PCB design, but I've never made a keyboard before.

You'd be a better candidate then, I have close to zero experience with plate design.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:47:45
If you want help with the plate from someone with experience, you can PM jdcarpe. Just throwing out some other options ^__^
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: Thimplum on Mon, 12 August 2013, 13:32:08
Quote from: mohitgarg on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:44:36
Quote from: Thimplum on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:40:44
Quote from: mohitgarg on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:31:43
Quote from: daerid on Mon, 12 August 2013, 12:04:25
Still going to move ahead with the one piece. A split design doesn't really appeal to me (I already have one ErgoDox with another on the way). AcidFire is more than welcome to work on a split/swivel design, but something tells me he might have his hands full with the ErgoGP

Do you want help with the plate?

I can also help with the plate.

I have a small amount of experience in PCB design, but I've never made a keyboard before.

You'd be a better candidate then, I have close to zero experience with plate design.

I dunno.

I've trimmed the OG Ergodox to micro size, but that's about it.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: Glod on Tue, 13 August 2013, 01:35:55
I do use my ergodox with hands tilted but close together. Still this looks appealing for travel because regardless of light weight, the ergodox is awkward for travel.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: CommunistWitchDr on Tue, 13 August 2013, 06:24:49
Quote from: Glod on Tue, 13 August 2013, 01:35:55
I do use my ergodox with hands tilted but close together. Still this looks appealing for travel because regardless of light weight, the ergodox is awkward for travel.
My edox seems to travel every bit as well as a tenkeyless, and not much worse than a 60%. Helps a lot if you put the backs of the two halves together.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 13 August 2013, 07:57:44
I've made covers for mine, so I can just stick the two halves together and the covers on top to protect the keycaps, fold the cables and be done with it.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: agodinhost on Tue, 13 August 2013, 13:40:40
Foldable???
 :D
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: daerid on Tue, 13 August 2013, 18:03:00
Quote from: agodinhost on Tue, 13 August 2013, 13:40:40
Foldable???
 :D

Now that is an idea. Have a hinge right down the center, keep the I2C bridge, but use a ribbon cable instead of TRRS. Would make it firmware-compatible with the ErgoDox.

Me likey...
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 13 August 2013, 18:10:27
Quote from: daerid on Tue, 13 August 2013, 18:03:00
Quote from: agodinhost on Tue, 13 August 2013, 13:40:40
Foldable???
 :D

Now that is an idea. Have a hinge right down the center, keep the I2C bridge, but use a ribbon cable instead of TRRS. Would make it firmware-compatible with the ErgoDox.

Me likey...

Someone posted a thread regarding foldable Ergonomic keyboard sometime back, might be worthwhile to have a look.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: daerid on Tue, 13 August 2013, 20:58:53
If we really wanted to make it compact, we'd have to change the PCB to not be reversible, and surface mount the controller and io expander on the bottom side. Doable, if less convenient.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: agodinhost on Wed, 14 August 2013, 07:38:39
Quote from: daerid on Tue, 13 August 2013, 20:58:53
If we really wanted to make it compact, we'd have to change the PCB to not be reversible, and surface mount the controller and io expander on the bottom side. Doable, if less convenient.
Hmmm, why don't you try to use the original PCB as a starting point?
You could trim the extra spaces ...

IMHO, surface mount would restrict the PCB building process. This layout has a lot of room to fit the ICs, I don't think that changing it to use surface mount would make a huge difference ...
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: yasuo on Wed, 14 August 2013, 07:49:07
acid is complete
(http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14319.jpg)
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: agodinhost on Wed, 14 August 2013, 08:16:37
Quote from: yasuo on Wed, 14 August 2013, 07:49:07
acid is complete
Show Image
(http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14319.jpg)

Hmmmm, I read he is working into his code - that it is not functional yet ...
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 14 August 2013, 10:04:45
That is actually quite amazing for travel.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: daerid on Wed, 14 August 2013, 10:40:03
Quote from: yasuo on Wed, 14 August 2013, 07:49:07
acid is complete
Show Image
(http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14319.jpg)


omg. omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg. I have no words, as I'm too busy drooling.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: Moosecraft on Wed, 14 August 2013, 12:00:37
Looks really nice, damn you Wallethack :P
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: AcidFire on Wed, 14 August 2013, 12:02:37
Quote from: agodinhost on Wed, 14 August 2013, 08:16:37
Quote from: yasuo on Wed, 14 August 2013, 07:49:07
acid is complete
Show Image
(http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14319.jpg)

Hmmmm, I read he is working into his code - that it is not functional yet ...
I think he meant that I've got a test piece completed (which I'm very happy with.)
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: Thimplum on Wed, 14 August 2013, 12:35:13
Quote from: AcidFire on Wed, 14 August 2013, 12:02:37
Quote from: agodinhost on Wed, 14 August 2013, 08:16:37
Quote from: yasuo on Wed, 14 August 2013, 07:49:07
acid is complete
Show Image
(http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/BDY14319.jpg)

Hmmmm, I read he is working into his code - that it is not functional yet ...
I think he meant that I've got a test piece completed (which I'm very happy with.)

I wanna see a video of you typing on it.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: wiredPANDA on Wed, 14 August 2013, 12:39:37
I'm interested in a vid, too.  Actually, I'll just take a pic with hand(s) at rest on it, to grasp the size.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: AcidFire on Wed, 14 August 2013, 16:57:17
By request:
(http://acidfire.ca/keyboard/IMG_7803.jpg)
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: daerid on Wed, 14 August 2013, 17:02:28
That looks fantastic.
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: daerid on Wed, 14 August 2013, 17:10:18
Call it the "InvaderDox" :-)
Title: Re: 70% + ErgoDox = I may have gone mad
Post by: HotKillerZzz on Tue, 15 July 2014, 10:30:38
What is the key layout for this?