Some people said it is expensive, and others told me can't imagine... it is so cheap!
As you said, Designer Keyboard has split bluetooth, concave finger Area and match with pro stand for no travelling and two-hand work style. Hard to find some similar functions like that, therefore some fans love it very much!
Ergodox EZ is wired, flat, and easy to find some similar functions keyboard for it.
I show you one example.
EarPods - Wired - £29 vs Airpod Pro - Split Bluetooth -£250
And more examples.
MALTRON - Wired, concave finger Area - £435
Keymouse - 3D printed case, Split Bluetooth, Flat, with mouse - USD 599-725
I could be wrong, but BT split concave cases seem to be very rare. A significant premium for BT doesn't seem unreasonable.
The design with the rests for other devices is definitely very cool.
I could be wrong, but BT split concave cases seem to be very rare. A significant premium for BT doesn't seem unreasonable.
More to the point though is whether there is demand for wireless in this already sub, sub niche of the keyboard market. BT seems to be a popular thing that people keep asking for in the mech board market,
but when I started a thread several months ago asking whether people really use their small keyboards in a portable fashion, only one person mentioned that they really required portability. The rest of the respondents were firmly deskbound to one location. This led me to conclude that people clamouring for Bluetooth are more interested in aesthetics than really needing the functionality to carry around and use with phones or tablets, so paying an extra $150 or so might not make sense for many prospective buyers.
The design with the rests for other devices is definitely very cool.
I believe wireless devices is the future.
I could be wrong, but BT split concave cases seem to be very rare. A significant premium for BT doesn't seem unreasonable.
I believe wireless devices is the future.
And all the final version products will become wireless.
So, I designed Designer Keyboard, split bluetooth and concave case.
Some people know the cost of split bluetooth and concave are expensive.
That's why they said the pre-order price is cheap.
Yes, I noticed that on your web page, though I can't seem to find it now, so thank you for providing it.
I notice that some of the things you've put there are extremely subjective and are definitely what I'd call marketing speak .
'Beautiful Form Design' - I find particularly weird, I'd say that the the Keyboardio has a particularly beautiful wooden form and the Ergogox Ez is pretty nice on the eyes. Why the X for them?
Thin Edge Slim - Compared to what? The Keymouse has almost no edge and the Ergogox's wrist wrest is the same rough shape as yours. Why the X for them?
Pro Stand For Other Devices - Sure, but this is a unique feature, so it's not really a fair thing to put on a comparison. Also, according to your website, those are 'optional' so I assume they cost extra and therefore shouldn't be included as part of a price comparison.
Two-Handed Work Style - This seems pretty unspecific. I'm using a two handed work style typing on a 60% board right now, in fact I almost always use two hands. Are the Ergodox or Keyboardio Model 01 not two handed? Maybe you mean that you don't ever have to take your hands off? Well then the Keymouse is definitely two-handed in that case. Also, since you have to buy your pro stand AND provide your own mouse or trackpad, you can't really offer that as a selling point in a price/feature comparison.
Switching To Connected Devices - You don't really expand on this, so I assume you mean that the BT chip can store five different device profiles? Fair enough, that's a good feature. There's not really any reason the Keymouse can't be connected to from any device though.
I'd argue that you also highlight unique features about your board, while not indicating anything that those boards have that yours doesn't. Things like LEDs might not be important to you, but the Model 01 and the Ergodox Ez both feature those and that is arguably a part of their value. In fact, if you're not putting that on the chart, the Ergodox Ez should be $325, not $354. For that price, the Ergodox also has adjustable tenting, rather than a fixed angle, so that's worth mentioning, I feel.
I'm not in any way criticising the design of you board, I think you've done great work designing it, have come up with a great website, and are clearly good at marketing it. I just feel that it's important to be transparent about things and not go too heavy on those kinds of comparisons that aren't entirely fair or honest, in my opinion. Tables like that, skewed in a positive fashion towards your product without highlighting any positives of any of the others may be good marketing, but it doesn't seem very classy.
Edit: Also, just because I'm still curious, you didn't answer how the two halves communicate with each other, can you explain?
I believe wireless devices is the future.
And I do not. If anything would be for me, it would be RF, since I can just plug in a dongle and go. Even then I need to worry about recharging some battery that will eventually fail and need replacing, which may be some kind of proprietary unobtainium pack of cells you may end up having to try to desolder yourself and rebuild. Bluetooth pairing is a hassle, switching between devices once paired is really the only significant benefit if you ask me.
Logitech's unifying receivers are probably my favorite for wireless peripherals, since you can mix and match whatever you like, configure once, and swap to whatever computers you like from there so long as you keep the dongle with those same peripherals.
At the end of the day, I will always prefer just plugging in a cable and using the board they way it is for 10+ years.
This reminds me of the people who said smartphones would replace computers, touchscreens would replace traditional peripherals, etc. There were even people who said that laser-projected keyboards would replace physical ones. Some things are just already better the way that they are.
Also, bluetooth communication was already a cheap feature of just about anything 10+ years ago. If it isn't, it is just markup. Supply and demand may justify that to some, not to me.
Just an outsider's opinion. I don't even care about ergo boards. The board looks cool. I wish you luck. :thumb:
I could be wrong, but BT split concave cases seem to be very rare. A significant premium for BT doesn't seem unreasonable.
I believe wireless devices is the future.
And all the final version products will become wireless.
So, I designed Designer Keyboard, split bluetooth and concave case.
Some people know the cost of split bluetooth and concave are expensive.
That's why they said the pre-order price is cheap.
Personally, I want wired. I've been in IT for a fairly long time, and one of the things I have learnt is that for anything really important that needs to last for years, I want the option of a physical cable. My newest laptop purchase was based specifically round this, my keyboards are all wired, my mouse is wireless but has a wired mode (and it's a mouse, it's disposable anyway).
But that's just me, I am definitely old fashioned :)
Thing is though, I don't think that other people really want Bluetooth either. I think it's something that people talk about wanting, but when it's time for the wallet to come out, very few are really prepared to pay extra for it. Most people who want Bluetooth want it at very little incremental cost- when I look around, it's a function built into the cheaper range of keyboards aimed at the younger and more fashion conscious crowd. Anne, Keychron, Varmillo. Good keyboards, sure, but all are sold to a more constrained budget. Look at the people paying 200+ for a Realforce or some whacky custom, and things default back to wired. I guess there's a BT HHKB, that's the only one that occurs to me.
From what I've been able to gather when looking into the weird ergo boards when researching the Dactyl, is that these boards are most likely to appeal to seriously geeky obsessives who code a lot, which means they're generally deskbound and require a fair bit of screen real estate (i.e. not smartphones or tablets).
Anyway, I definitely admire the product you've created. I think it's a very niche product, but it's a good one that is practically unique.
Id like to see gateron switches instead of cherry switches as they are both cheaper and smoother
I could be wrong, but BT split concave cases seem to be very rare. A significant premium for BT doesn't seem unreasonable.
I believe wireless devices is the future.
And all the final version products will become wireless.
So, I designed Designer Keyboard, split bluetooth and concave case.
Some people know the cost of split bluetooth and concave are expensive.
That's why they said the pre-order price is cheap.
Personally, I want wired. I've been in IT for a fairly long time, and one of the things I have learnt is that for anything really important that needs to last for years, I want the option of a physical cable. My newest laptop purchase was based specifically round this, my keyboards are all wired, my mouse is wireless but has a wired mode (and it's a mouse, it's disposable anyway).
But that's just me, I am definitely old fashioned :)
Thing is though, I don't think that other people really want Bluetooth either. I think it's something that people talk about wanting, but when it's time for the wallet to come out, very few are really prepared to pay extra for it. Most people who want Bluetooth want it at very little incremental cost- when I look around, it's a function built into the cheaper range of keyboards aimed at the younger and more fashion conscious crowd. Anne, Keychron, Varmillo. Good keyboards, sure, but all are sold to a more constrained budget. Look at the people paying 200+ for a Realforce or some whacky custom, and things default back to wired. I guess there's a BT HHKB, that's the only one that occurs to me.
From what I've been able to gather when looking into the weird ergo boards when researching the Dactyl, is that these boards are most likely to appeal to seriously geeky obsessives who code a lot, which means they're generally deskbound and require a fair bit of screen real estate (i.e. not smartphones or tablets).
Anyway, I definitely admire the product you've created. I think it's a very niche product, but it's a good one that is practically unique.
I see.
Please check the demo (https://www.vexc-how-design.com/demo/), it shows usb mode and BLE mode.
And most people like Ivan (https://people.ergodox-ez.com/ivan-smirnov/), looking for split bluetooth board.Show Image(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/69ebaa_3d36248a092245fb947389fe42186aea~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_890,h_617,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/3dmouse2jpg.jpg)
And one more important thing is only split board can do two-handed work style and no traveling which is good for doing faster from my early study.
It may save at lest 5% time and 80 hours per year.
If 8750 people use my board for 1 year, we can have 700,000 hours, it equals one person lifetime.
Most Designer or creative worker is working overtime around 10-30 hours per week.
I try to help them, that's why I try very hard to show you guys!
This is basically a productized version of Oobly's keyboard. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49721.0
I still think this thumb key design makes the wrong choice w/r/t thumb biomechanics, but it's good to see people trying a variety of ideas.
While far from perfect, the Maltron remains the best available version of these sculpted keyboard designs. Unfortunately later keyboard designers (Kinesis, this one, etc.) didn't do as careful a consideration of human hand shape as Malt originally did.
The best designed 3D keyboard I have seen pictures of is the s, but it never got past the prototype stage in the 1990s. It might do better today with resources like Kickstarter and 3D printers available which make the design and marketing faster and easier.
Folks willing to 3d print and hand-wire their own keyboard can make something really amazing perfectly matching their own hand shape, and placing keys to be optimally accessible.
Among commercial options though, I'd generally recommend skipping the sculpted board feature. It could theoretically be amazing but in practice isn't designed carefully enough to be worth the trouble.
Thank you for sharing your creation! The overall concept appeals a bit to me since I must confess a soft spot for the Maltron, which was the originator of such styles and which your design appears to follow quite closely. I must also concur for a product of this complexity (presumably hand wired switches, etc) the quoted price does not seem outrageous. All round a solid looking design. That said, I just can't help but feel that there is something missing from the current proposal that would make it compelling for those after a fancy ergonomic board. At the risk of sounding harsh, the name 'designer keyboard' perhaps sets very high expectations and, whilst not unpleasant, the appearance does not excite me, and I am somebody who likes ergonomic boards. The plain black of the prototype may not be doing it many favours, maybe something could be done with materials and lighting whilst keeping the same design?
The 'pro stands' are an interesting concept but not something that I would commit to online: I am not sure without trying if the position and angle of the trackpad, for instance, would be practical.
Since there are few people bringing forward 'Maltron style' 3D designs I have in the past had a number of thoughts which I would like to see in such a keyboard but might not be relevant to your own vision:I wish you luck progressing your design, and hope you share future progress with this forum!
- Firstly, I there might be the opportunity to do something with the thumb cluster unlike the 'grid' of the Maltron, Kinesis and Dactyl. I would mimic the Keyboardio 'arc'. I also wonder if the Keyboardio palm button should be adopted. I am considering the Keyboardio as my next 'board as I think these aspects of the design are compelling, although my immediate aspiration is for the atreus (for firmware reasons mentioned later).
- Because it is a 3D design, portability will be its achilles heel, and will go right out the window if customers trick it out with 'pro stand' accessories. I would be tempted to go with a single piece design like Maltron rather than a two piece design. I am currently using a two piece ergonomic and am not convinced it offers benefits over one piece designs, even for portability. In practice I don't separate them so far, certainly not enough to have documents plus both trackpad and 3D mouse in-between. Your aspiration for light weight also invites the likelihood that they would slide about the desk
- Instead I would look at a 'chassis' onto which mount the keyboard sections, palm rests and feet. Perhaps this 'chassis' might be a simple length of metal tube like a bicycle handlebar on which the brake, gear shifters and grips clamp. In a bicycle setup this method is both robust and allows for easy adjustment to rider position. The individual 'bowls' could be thinner if they are clamped thus rather than with a flat base to rest on the table. Further clamp-on supports for trackpad, 3D mouse or document clipboards could be provided.
- Firmware. One of the reasons I am thinking of the Keyboardio is that the firmware appears to facilitate options I am struggling to implement in QMK (shapeshifter, a more logical system to establish combos). Would that firmware (Kaleidoscope, also open source) be an option? It would certainly separate the project from the hoi-polloi of QMK based boards.
- I agree with others that USB (type-c port - excellent!) is more desirable than wireless.
Id like to see gateron switches instead of cherry switches as they are both cheaper and smoother
Id like to see gateron switches instead of cherry switches as they are both cheaper and smoother
Highly recommend you look into cherry switches manufactured in 2020. Hyperglide switches are very smooth.
What do you use the SpaceMouse for? Is it for productivity outside CAD?
Id like to see gateron switches instead of cherry switches as they are both cheaper and smoother
We know everyone has their own favourite switches.
Therefore, we spend 2 years to design hot swap pcb with concave surface.
Let you change your favourite one.
The v1.2 pcb is supported 5 legs switches now! Cheers!Show Image(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/69ebaa_c97800eddfbb427ead9fb24df87e274a~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_400,h_250,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/69ebaa_c97800eddfbb427ead9fb24df87e274a~mv2.webp)
This is basically a productized version of Oobly's keyboard. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49721.0
I still think this thumb key design makes the wrong choice w/r/t thumb biomechanics, but it's good to see people trying a variety of ideas.
While far from perfect, the Maltron remains the best available version of these sculpted keyboard designs. Unfortunately later keyboard designers (Kinesis, this one, etc.) didn't do as careful a consideration of human hand shape as Malt originally did.
The best designed 3D keyboard I have seen pictures of is the DataStealth, but it never got past the prototype stage in the 1990s. It might do better today with resources like Kickstarter and 3D printers available which make the design and marketing faster and easier.
Folks willing to 3d print and hand-wire their own keyboard can make something really amazing perfectly matching their own hand shape, and placing keys to be optimally accessible.
Among commercial options though, I'd generally recommend skipping the sculpted board feature. It could theoretically be amazing but in practice isn't designed carefully enough to be worth the trouble.
Id like to see gateron switches instead of cherry switches as they are both cheaper and smoother
We know everyone has their own favourite switches.
Therefore, we spend 2 years to design hot swap pcb with concave surface.
Let you change your favourite one.
The v1.2 pcb is supported 5 legs switches now! Cheers!Show Image(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/69ebaa_c97800eddfbb427ead9fb24df87e274a~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_400,h_250,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/69ebaa_c97800eddfbb427ead9fb24df87e274a~mv2.webp)
hmm... this won't fit beam springs though
i guess it's my own fault if my favourite switch is not mx-compatible
i guess it's my own fault if my favourite switch is not mx-compatible
Sorry, don't think bad.
Now is only stage 1, depends on our study and market, we may design other switches board in the future. :D
it's an inverted curve, which there aren't many of, which increases complexity
what's an "inverted curve" design? just concave? or am i missing something?
i guess it's my own fault if my favourite switch is not mx-compatible
Sorry, don't think bad.
Now is only stage 1, depends on our study and market, we may design other switches board in the future. :D
sounds good.
maybe for next version you can make a copy of beam spring switches?
then i'll buy one for sure :D
what's an "inverted curve" design? just concave? or am i missing something?
Yes, concave is the term I should have used there.
Hey Jerry, just let you know we sold all the Designer Keyboards.
And users love it very much!Show Image(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/69ebaa_3e544d71afdb408eb505dec023c2cb1f~mv2.png)
Cheers!
Hey Jerry, just let you know we sold all the Designer Keyboards.
And users love it very much!Show Image(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/69ebaa_3e544d71afdb408eb505dec023c2cb1f~mv2.png)
Cheers!
Thank you for the update, I suppose.
The reviewer is entirely wrong about it being the only wireless split keyboard, of course. Especially with ZMK firmware and the nice!nano becoming more widely adopted for projects, but you can't fault them for not researching. I can see on your Facebook page you mentioned you've had 100% 5* reviews, are you able to tell me where I can see these reviews? :)
Hi vexchow,
New to 3d ergo board side of things.
Besides the different thumb modules you have and BLE connection, what is the difference between Designer Keyboard and Dactyl Manuform ?
I'm not familiar with the NxM specification with 3d board. Does Designer keyboard have a 5x5, 5x6 or 6x6 layout?
I don't see specific QMK mention in the product page. What firmware does it run? TMK? (that means one-shot are supported, but no mod-tap and tap-dance?)
Once I familiarize myself with the 3d ergo space, I'll definitely keep your product in mind.
The only thing holding me back is lack of F keys and inverted arrow clusters (for when I'm in reading mode, browsing pages or reading pdfs)
Thanks for support HKW btw.
I can see on your Facebook page you mentioned you've had 100% 5* reviews, are you able to tell me where I can see these reviews? :)
And you can find more details about good reviews on our website and wiki!
https://www.vexc-how-design.com/overview (https://www.vexc-how-design.com/overview)
So far, we received 80-90% of good comments on the internet and from the user reviews. Thanks so much!Show Image(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/69ebaa_05e4a9fca2494fc28f0ed19567c55c4b~mv2.jpg)
I can see on your Facebook page you mentioned you've had 100% 5* reviews, are you able to tell me where I can see these reviews? :)
And you can find more details about good reviews on our website and wiki!
https://www.vexc-how-design.com/overview (https://www.vexc-how-design.com/overview)
So far, we received 80-90% of good comments on the internet and from the user reviews. Thanks so much!Show Image(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/69ebaa_05e4a9fca2494fc28f0ed19567c55c4b~mv2.jpg)
None of those appear to be reviews, they're all people talking about the keyboard in Reddit or Discord posts.
Several of them explicitly state that they haven't got the keyboard.
I understand marketing your keyboard, but if a product is good then you shouldn't need to misrepresent your popularity.
Finally, the Designer Keyboard leads the industry of keyboard for at least 5 years!
So maybe I ask you few questions.
Which fully bluetooth split board had assembled?Kenesis Freesyle2
And which split board has the same functions as the Designer Keyboard?
What is the difference between the above logic boards?
What is the difference between qmk and zmk?
Why qmk is better than zmk?
I can see on your Facebook page you mentioned you've had 100% 5* reviews, are you able to tell me where I can see these reviews? :)
And you can find more details about good reviews on our website and wiki!
https://www.vexc-how-design.com/overview (https://www.vexc-how-design.com/overview)
So far, we received 80-90% of good comments on the internet and from the user reviews. Thanks so much!Show Image(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/69ebaa_05e4a9fca2494fc28f0ed19567c55c4b~mv2.jpg)
None of those appear to be reviews, they're all people talking about the keyboard in Reddit or Discord posts.
Several of them explicitly state that they haven't got the keyboard.
I understand marketing your keyboard, but if a product is good then you shouldn't need to misrepresent your popularity.
I would like to invite you to join Batch 3!
Maybe you will love it after trying our product!
So maybe I ask you few questions.
Sure - I'm not sure why you think having me answer questions about wireless keyboards negates any critique I've made, but okay.Which fully bluetooth split board had assembled?Kenesis Freesyle2And which split board has the same functions as the Designer Keyboard?
Lots of boards have similar feature sets. The only solely unique thing you have going for your board is the 'pro stand' but other than that there are a whole range of split keyboard out there. Most people, as has been highlighted by the responses in this thread, don't really care about wireless.What is the difference between the above logic boards?
I'm really not sure what that has to do with anything, they're all different styles of form factor and use case and several of them ae completely out of place. Why do you have an Uno in that line up? Almost every custom keyboard runs off some flavour of an ATmega chip, usually a 32U4 or 328, so I'm not sure why you felt you had to reinvent the wheel.What is the difference between qmk and zmk?
One is designed specifically for wireless keyboards, one isn'tWhy qmk is better than zmk?
For wireless keyboards, it's not.
Hey Jerry, just let you know we sold all the Designer Keyboards.
And users love it very much!Show Image(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/69ebaa_3e544d71afdb408eb505dec023c2cb1f~mv2.png)
Cheers!
Thank you for the update, I suppose.
The reviewer is entirely wrong about it being the only wireless split keyboard, of course. Especially with ZMK firmware and the nice!nano becoming more widely adopted for projects, but you can't fault them for not researching. I can see on your Facebook page you mentioned you've had 100% 5* reviews, are you able to tell me where I can see these reviews? :)
Alright, in fact, we had tested several logic boards and different firmware.
If possible, we try to search and test all options for each part, and then found out the best combo for Designer Keyboard.Show Image(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/69ebaa_8facf94d681c4f64b29b18a414a648cb~mv2.jpeg/v1/fill/w_667,h_392,al_c,q_90/69ebaa_8facf94d681c4f64b29b18a414a648cb~mv2.webp)
So maybe I ask you few questions.
Which fully bluetooth split board had assembled?
And which split board has the same functions as the Designer Keyboard?
What is the difference between the above logic boards?
What is the difference between qmk and zmk?
Why qmk is better than zmk?
And you can find more details about good reviews on our website and wiki!
https://www.vexc-how-design.com/overview (https://www.vexc-how-design.com/overview)
So far, we received 80-90% of good comments on the internet and from the user reviews. Thanks so much!Show Image(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/69ebaa_05e4a9fca2494fc28f0ed19567c55c4b~mv2.jpg)