Author Topic: Can anyone identify this keyboard? (Read 8018 times)

Drag0nFly · « **on:** Mon, 29 November 2021, 13:34:08 »

Hi all,

I came across this curious board, which – lacking much of any identifiable information – has proven to be a bit of a (perhaps short-lived) mystery. All I can discern is that the logo (if that is indeed what it is) appears to be three slightly diagonal bars (in the section for the lock lights), and a serial number which might be KC7106829.

It also has a quite interesting layout with a cross-nav, and an oddly-shaped enter (neither big-ass, nor ISO or the thinner ANSI, but more of a fusion between a big-ass enter and the ISO enter – or perhaps all three – if that makes sense)

Since the board has not appeared in physical form, it has proven a challenge to identify it from simply looking at pictures.

Any input would be appreciated.

sefixmm · « **Reply #1 on:** Tue, 30 November 2021, 12:28:23 »

No idea but at your place i try on deskthority.net, the board is more specialized in vintage boards

Drag0nFly · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 01 December 2021, 12:51:53 »

Yeap – I thought of that as well. I've done that now, let's see if it sheds any more light on this board which apparently prefers to remain anonymous.
Thanks for the input.

Drag0nFly · « **Reply #3 on:** Sun, 12 December 2021, 10:01:08 »

Well, I had no luck getting members on Deskthority to identify this. I even bought the keyboard, thinking it would be easier to see what type it was after dismantling it, but to no avail.

All I can say for certain is that the board has Alps SKCL Cream switches, and that the only adapter which works with it is @hasu's TMK adapter.

My Soarers only produced error codes, and my passive AT-to-PS/2 and mouse+keyboard combo adapters did nothing.

The board also has a DIP-switch bank with eight switches underneath the PCB (CTS 206-8 T826) which allows protocol changes, et al.

I did a number of tests (>20+) with @hasu's adapter and got it to work when all switches were set off and a number of other settings (none of which worked with the AT adapters, even though it is registered as AT84). When (presumably) set to XT, the adapter only registers error codes.

It almost appears as if support for this, or a very similar model, was specifically added to support it. @hasu: is it possible to determine the type based on this (the id is reported as 0000 when it is detected as AT84, so perhaps not...)

The serial number appears to indicate a model which is “KC71”

Close-up of logo, which is three parallel bars with a shade-effect:

The only other indication is a PCB number which is 2051526-01

The microcontroller it uses is a National Semiconductor INS8039N-11 (https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/8039/National%20Semiconductor-INS8039N-11%20-%20P8039L.html)

Picture of full board

hasu · « **Reply #4 on:** Sun, 12 December 2021, 19:44:09 »

Quote from: Drag0nFly on Sun, 12 December 2021, 10:01:08

I did a number of tests (>20+) with @hasu's adapter and got it to work when all switches were set off and a number of other settings (none of which worked with the AT adapters, even though it is registered as AT84). When (presumably) set to XT, the adapter only registers error codes.

It almost appears as if support for this, or a very similar model, was specifically added to support it. @hasu: is it possible to determine the type based on this (the id is reported as 0000 when it is detected as AT84, so perhaps not...)

Posting debug logs of Soarer's and TMK converter would be helpful to know your situation.

Drag0nFly · « **Reply #5 on:** Sun, 12 December 2021, 20:11:22 »

Thanks for replying @hasu. I performed quite a number of tests with the keyboard being detected as AT84 (working) and XT (not working) by changing the dip switch settings around.

btw.– This might be irrelevant, but I followed the Northgate Omnikey documentation (https://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Northgate_OmniKey_Users_Guide_Apr92.pdf), as that was the only other board I currently found with a similar DIP-switch.

However, this board appears to deviate slightly, since the board does not work in XT mode with DIP switch 1 set to “on”. Your adapter also works with the other low-numbered switches being set in the on position as well (although this should, if correct, change the protocol to ATT6300, Amiga, Tandy, etc). At least it worked with DIP switch 2 set to “on” and switch 3 (Tandy 1000SX and 1OOOTX) set to “on” as well (detects as AT84). It matches the documentation if all switches are set to “off” for AT-mode though – although only your adapter detects the board properly (same as the other modes).

Including the debug output below (again, based on multiple tests). The Soarer is consistently repeating keys, even though these are not being pressed when the TMK works fine in the same mode.

unknown-kybd.txt (99.97 kB - downloaded 78 times.)

hasu · « **Reply #6 on:** Sun, 12 December 2021, 21:38:14 »

Which DIP switch setting does TMK works better with? All swites off?

The keyboard doesn't reply its keyboard ID. But TMK conveter seems to work well in AT84 mode, with some of DIP switch settings at least.
Is there any problem with TMK converter AT84 mode?

The keyboard seems to support XT protocol but both converters tend to miss its signal, signal timing may be unusual.
This part indicates that the keyboard works in XT protocol.

Quote

1593 Waiting for new device:..............
1594 Listening:
1595 TMK:111e8c/LUFA:d6a7df
1596 USB configured.
1597 Loop start.
1598 I711
1599 803 ERR:20 ISR:0140 A3712 wFF
1600 3715 ERR:12 ISR:0000 X4216
1601 5089 PRT:21 ISR:00A0 r00 W5089 wF2 R R R R R R R R R R R6071
1602 ID:FFFF(XT)
1603 6072 ERR:11 ISR:0000 S6072 L6072
1604 12922 ERR:20 ISR:2D40 E12922 I12923 r96
1605 13015 PRT:21 ISR:96A0 r16 r96
1606 13392 ERR:20 ISR:5A80 A15924 wFF
1607 15927 ERR:12 ISR:0000 X16428 r00 W17301 r17 W17532
1608 17639 ERR:20 ISR:2F40 wF2 R18035
1609 ID:FFFF(XT)

Drag0nFly · « **Reply #7 on:** Tue, 14 December 2021, 15:24:07 »

Interesting observation about the XT-mode. My main concern was of course to try to identify the board in case there were some AT-specific models you added in order to provide support.

After some fiddling with the switches, I do get some output with the Soarer. It is not stable though, consistently freezing whenever the Pause-key – which is located next to backspace on this board – is pressed (your adapter toggles NumLock when it is pressed, in a variety of DIP-switch settings, and is stable/behaves consistently.)
So definitely no issues with your adapter when running the board in AT-mode (apart from some keys, such as PrintSrn, not correctly registering as such)

I had time to double-check and to perform some further tests, and the board is detected by the TMK adapter (as AT84) with DIP switch #2 set to on (AT&T 6300), as well as #3 (Tandy 1000SX) on and #1 and #3 on (Amiga 2000 & 2500). So I doubt the Northgate documentation applies for this board. But it was the only reference I had.

At some point in the tests hid_listen got “unknown id, report to TMK”–not sure if the output would help in any way.

I have not seen any of my boards report an id with the adapters though, which would uniquely identify them.

News:

Author Topic: Can anyone identify this keyboard? (Read 8018 times)