Filco Blue or Brown?

[Brodie337]

OK, so after getting a new job, I have decided to reward myself by blowing my paycheck on a shiny (or matte) new keyboard.

My current board is a Chicony KB-5181, with what I think are Monterey SMK switches, but I'm looking to replace it with a Filco "Otaku" Tenkeyless with either Blue or Brown switches.

My question is which switches should I go for?

I'd rather not have the noise of the blues, but I'm worried the browns will be too light after the switches that I currently use, and that the tactile bump ill be too soft.

I don't mind spending more, as long as I know that this keyboard will be properly suited to me.

The keyboard, must, however, be a compact 'board, ideally a standard(ish) layout (I don't mind a large enter key), but hopefully a normal board, just tenkeyless. A sharper tactile bump would be nice, but not essential, as long as its noticeable. Also, if possible, the option of blank keys would be nice.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks,
Brodie.

[didjamatic]

The Monterey SMK's are closer to Cherry Blues than Browns because they're tactile and clicky.  The Cherry Browns are only tactile which it sounds like what you want.  Since you already have a clicky board and want something quieter, the Browns seem like a better choice.

This Cherry Brown Compaq is a solid board and much cheaper, so you could pick it up and give it a try.  I have one of them and a Filco and honestly can't tell you that I really prefer the Filco over the Compaq other than the keys on the far right take some getting used to.  The Compaq is very well built and some argue has better switches than the Filcos.

[patrickgeekhack]

If you want a noticeable tactile bump, then blue Cherries will be better than brown Cherries. The tactile bump is there in the brown Cherries but some people don't notice it. If you have been using heavier switches it will take you some time (different for each person) to start noticing it. Of course, the click in the blue Cherries also helps.

[patrickgeekhack]

The Monterey SMK's are closer to Cherry Blues than Browns because they're tactile and clicky.  The Cherry Browns are only tactile which it sounds like what you want.  Since you already have a clicky board and want something quieter, the Browns seem like a better choice.

This Cherry Brown Compaq is a solid board and much cheaper, so you could pick it up and give it a try.  I have one of them and a Filco and honestly can't tell you that I really prefer the Filco over the Compaq other than the keys on the far right take some getting used to.  The Compaq is very well built and some argue has better switches than the Filcos.

I don't know about the Compaq. Personally (other's opinion may differ), if I had bought a Compaq MX11800 to try the brown Cherries before buying my Filco, I would not have bought the Filco. I'm glad I did not go this route. To me, although both keyboards use the same switch, the feel is quite different from one to the other. Again, this is just my opinion.

[Brodie337]

If you want a noticeable tactile bump, then blue Cherries will be better than brown Cherries. The tactile bump is there in the brown Cherries but some people don't notice it.

That pretty much makes my choice for me, but just to make sure...

Does anyone have some idea of how loud the Blues are? (I understand that this will be hard to do, given how subjective this is.) I don't mind a bit of noise, but quiet would be nice.

[patrickgeekhack]

That pretty much makes my choice for me, but just to make sure...

Does anyone have some idea of how loud the Blues are? (I understand that this will be hard to do, given how subjective this is.) I don't mind a bit of noise, but quiet would be nice.

Tough question to answer. It all depends on the desk, the background noise and how hard you press on the keys. It also depends on whether the keys are plate or PCB-mounted. Where are you going to use it? At home or at work?

[Brodie337]

This will be mainly at home, and I'll probably move the Chicony to work (I work in retail, no cubicles here!) to show them the light that is a mechanical keyboard.

I do keep a spare rubber dome board on hand though, for when there are others sleeping.

Just a thought, does anyone other than Deck to a cherry clear 'board?

[didjamatic]

Does anyone have some idea of how loud the Blues are?

Take a handful of change, throw it on a cookie sheet, put your SMK keyboard on it, connect a microphone to a Marshall stack and turn to eleven.  Proceed typing.

[patrickgeekhack]

Take a handful of change, throw it on a cookie sheet, put your SMK keyboard on it, connect a microphone to a Marshall stack and turn to eleven.  Proceed typing.

Show Image

It's not that loud, is it? I guess everyone perceives the same sensory information differently.

[patrickgeekhack]

This will be mainly at home, and I'll probably move the Chicony to work (I work in retail, no cubicles here!) to show them the light that is a mechanical keyboard.

I do keep a spare rubber dome board on hand though, for when there are others sleeping.

Just a thought, does anyone other than Deck to a cherry clear 'board?

A good option would be to have a rubber dome wireless keyboard for the time when everyone is sleeping at night. You may find that the noise may not bother some as you would think. My wife and my daughter don't seem to be bothered, it's me how once I found how quiet the Topre is compared to the blue Cherries who do not want to type on the blue Cherries at night. My wife said that she would only notice the sound if she paid attention to it. She also took notice of the noise level difference after I had the Topre. Before the Topre she did not have anything else to compare the noise level too. I went from buckling spring to ALPS and to Blue Cherries. As you can see, the blue Cherries were quieter than the other two.

[cheater1034]

The tactile bump on the browns is very noticeable, especially if you're coming from cherry blues (it's very similar, but smoother).

The browns are barely lighter than the blues - but it's noticeable when comparing side by side.

The browns tactility is great, they are extremely quiet once you learn how to type on them (Coming from typing on cherry blues properly doesn't take much adjusting) - and are a lot less annoying (due to the noise and smoothness) - it still has a very satisfying sound coming from a rubber dome.

It's extremely inaccurate to say that the tactile bump on a brown cherry filco isn't noticeable to some people. Here's what I say about it: The tactile bump is about identical to the blue cherries (5g less force to get there, but side-by-side when the switch activates on either one, you don't want to keep going) -- there's actually times where I did a single key press trying to hit the activation point on the browns and thought I was bottomed out, but I wasn't I had no problem finding the activation point - same as on cherry blues.

Here's what else I have to say: Most people who say they don't notice the bump on the cherry browns probably didn't notice it on the cherry blues either, they probably noticed the click and associated it with "tactile bump" - I prefer typing to be done by the fingers instead of the ears anyway - maybe that's why I love the browns so much (again, I was perfect at touch typing with the blues - within one day of using browns I had no problems either - they are very similar)

Another observation, although this could be totally inaccurate (although it seem true to me after several teststoconfirmthistheorying):
1. It seems like it takes more force to get to the activation on the blues - but after you get past the bump there is no more resistance til bottoming out - which makes it really unpleasurable to bottom out at all, even stricter touch typing
2. It seems like it takes less force to get to the activation on the browns - but after you get past the bump there is still resistance that increases til bottoming out - which I LOVE compared to the blues - it makes it extremely easy to touch type AND a lot more enjoyable if you do bottom out.

I've also read that the pcb-mounted cherry browns are more tactile - I don't think that is true, the sound is most likely different, but not the feel of the actual switch.

Come on people , don't make this man buy a keyboard based on false pretenses, the tactile bump is easily noticed (if you can't notice it on the browns, you won't notice it on the blues either)

This is like people complaining about extremely bright keyboard LEDs, first of all they shouldnt be on (numlock is understandable, otherwise come on), and second of all - why are you looking straight down at the keyboard LEDs. This is like saying - "the sun is too bright! Because when I look right in to it I burn my eyes out). You wouldnt go and hold a flash light right at your eyes either - come on

[Brodie337]

My bass amp goes up to 20, will that do?

On a more serious note, does anyone else do a board with Cherry clears?

EDIT: Gah, Just when I thought I had made a decision! ^^^

Either way, the more input the better

[patrickgeekhack]

On a more serious note,, does anyone else do a board with Cherry clears?

Unfortunately, I cannot help you here.

[Brodie337]

Unfortunately, I cannot help you here.

Thanks anyway. I love the Deck Legend, but the backlighting and sheer size of it turn me off. I like to have my keyboard centered to the monitor, but hate having to have my mouse WAY off to the right, hence the need for a compact keyboard.

[patrickgeekhack]

The tactile bump on the browns is very noticeable, especially if you're coming from cherry blues (it's very similar, but smoother).

The browns are barely lighter than the blues - but it's noticeable when comparing side by side.

I don't argue that the brown Cherries are nice to type on. They are. Once one is used to light switches, then one will notice the bump. But some people mentioned that they failed to notice it. One either loves the click in the blue Cherries or hate it. There's not in between.

[patrickgeekhack]

Thanks anyway. I love the Deck Legend, but the backlighting and sheer size of it turn me off. I like to have my keyboard centered to the monitor, but hate having to have my mouse WAY off to the right, hence the need for a compact keyboard.

You're welcome. Take your time to think about it and go with what your heart truly desires. If you don't, you'll always wonder what the other would have been like. Of course, sometimes this does not work and you end up buying both. I have 6 different switches, but two blue Cherries. Did I tell you how much I like the blue Cherries? :-)

[Brodie337]

Lol, yeah.

Money, in this case, isn't an issue (You heard me right! Go nuts!), but I can't seem to find anyone who will do the board I want, unless there isn't much difference between the feel of the blues and browns. In that case I'm decided.

[cheater1034]

I don't argue that the brown Cherries are nice to type on. They are. Once one is used to light switches, then one will notice the bump. But some people mentioned that they failed to notice it. One either loves the click in the blue Cherries or hate it. There's not in between.

But what i'm saying is that I came from months of typing on blue cherries, and immediately noticed the bump on the browns - it's practically identical except for the 5g difference in force (which isn't enough of a difference to not notice the bump - even if you're typing on it as if it were a blue cherry). I think the ones that didn't notice the bump on the browns are coming from years on a 70g force board or something like that, they certainly can't be coming off of a blue cherry. (meaining, if that 70g force person got a blue cherry they probably wouldnt notice the bump either, just the click) - If someone can feel the bump on a blue they will most definitely feel it on a brown :\ (feel, not hear) - I can slam the keys down on both switches and can't feel the bump - but I can hear the click on the blue (which gives the illusion of feeling activation i guess?)

If you're typing on browns or blues as if they were a model m then you are doing it wrong - lets just put it that way - Several people associate tactility with click - the two are totally unrelated.

The decision of the poster should simply depend on if he wants click or not - It's fairly easy to adjust when it comes to +/- 5g force - I suspect if you had drawn force curves they would look awfully similar too. (the blues with + a little force before the bump, and faster drop off after)

[Brodie337]

Thanks alot for that reply, it's a big help.

I would like to buy an non clicky board, but the weighting and tactility of the browns had me worried.

To any Chicony KB-5181 users out ther, how would you compare the overall weight of the Browns to the 5181?

[Brodie337]

Unfortunately, our non-mechanical minded friends and family don't agree, hence my desire for a quieter board.

Thanks alot though, that would be really helpful.

[Brodie337]

I find the Chicony just fine. My girlfriend on the other hand...

As for the cherry, while it has the right switches, its too big. I'm after a tenkeyless board. I don't think the browns would be too light, given that the review of the Chicony on here (Can't remember whose) found the switches to be lighter than a blue.

By the way, "Here" is Australia, for those who are interested.

[Brodie337]

I'll see if I can dig up a chart showing weights of aussie coins and see if I can get a weight of the switches. My board is 20 years old, or near enough, so I don't expect much consistency

[maxlugar]

Unfortunately, our non-mechanical minded friends and family don't agree, hence my desire for a quieter board.

Thanks alot though, that would be really helpful.

The Filco with Blue Cherries is louder than the Chicony KB-5181.

Blue Cherry switches have a distinct high pitch click vs. the SMK Monterey switches which have more of a muted click.

Overall, I personally prefer Blues over Browns, but if you are looking primarily for a quiter keyboard than the Chicony KB-5181 and considering a Blue Cherry keyboard, you are moving in the wrong direction.

[Brodie337]

The Chicony keys seem to let go about 65 grams, but that's at the point of the tactile break. to get there, you only need about 40 grams to get there. Mind you, this was an incredibly crude approach.

EDIT: Quiet, while nice, is a non issue if the 'board doesn't feel right.

[trievalot]

Hey, another Aussie.....where are you in oz?
Im Adelaide......

[maxlugar]

The Chicony keys seem to let go about 65 grams, but that's at the point of the tactile break. to get there, you only need about 40 grams to get there. Mind you, this was an incredibly crude approach.

EDIT: Quiet, while nice, is a non issue if the 'board doesn't feel right.

The SMK Montereys are lighter than buckling springs or complicated white ALPS key switches, but not as light Cherry MX Blue or Brown key switches.

[maxlugar]

EDIT: Quiet, while nice, is a non issue if the 'board doesn't feel right.

On second thought, bag both the Blue and Brown Cherries and get yourself a Topre Realforce 87U or HHKB Pro 2.  The Topre key switches are quiet and tactile.  There are none better.

[Brodie337]

trievalot, I'm in Northern NSW.

Whats the weight in grams of the brown switches? I have a hard time not bottoming out on the SMKs, though I'm not sure if thats because of the light weight, or fact that theres a sharp tactile bump, and the weight drops off so suddenly after it. Am I right in saying that the Brown Cherries pick up in weight towards the bottom of their stroke? If so, how much?

EDIT: The Realforce tenkeyless is starting to look more attractive, but does the weight pick up at the bottom of the stroke?

[ocdonkb]

At the risk of this turning into another Topre thread, I'll just say that if you want a non-clicky keyboard, and the cost is no problem, the Topre is the best choice. It isn't completely quiet, its sound can be best described as... unique and addictive.

Once I've used my 87U for at least a month, I'll post a review. For now, that's all I'll say.

[maxlugar]

trievalot, I'm in Northern NSW.

Whats the weight in grams of the brown switches? I have a hard time not bottoming out on the SMKs, though I'm not sure if thats because of the light weight, or fact that theres a sharp tactile bump, and the weight drops off so suddenly after it. Am I right in saying that the Brown Cherries pick up in weight towards the bottom of their stroke? If so, how much?

EDIT: The Realforce tenkeyless is starting to look more attractive, but does the weight pick up at the bottom of the stroke?

The actuation force for both the Brown and Blue Cherry MX key switches is 2.1 oz., whatever than converts to in grams.  I assure you that both require less force than the SMK Montereys used in the Chicony KB-5181.

With the Topre key switches, you will experience "snap with cup rubber" so you can become one wth "cup rubber" which translated, means no, Topre key presses do not get heavier at the bottom of the stroke.

Besides, if you are looking for an Otaku keyboard, the Realforce 87U with black dye sublimated key labels on black keys is practically Otaku anyway.

[Brodie337]

2.1oz is about 60 grams, not much lighter than what I've got. I think I'm going to go for the Browns, Because I think I can get used to the lighter weight, and everyone around me is happy. Win - Win.

By the way, Otaku is neither here nor there, if you don't look, it doesn't matter. It'd be nice, but not overly important.

[Brodie337]

I've reached the conclusion that I'll build myself a bigger keyboard tray, and put up with a bigger keyboard, and not settle for second best switch wise.

I've emailed Deck about the cost of shipping a "Legend" 105 key board here. The backlighting is more for the girlfriend, who likes the idea of a backlit board, so I'm willing to fork out the extra.

[trievalot]

the legend 105 looks cool, but the LEDs cheapen the whole expereince. Kinda like fluffy dice in a bentley.

(Just my opinion by the way!)

[Brodie337]

Yeah, I know... I'm thinking of getting a set of blank keycaps as well, so I have the option of LEDs, or just leaving them off.

[trievalot]

can you leave the LEDs on with blank caps on? that would be a cool effect.....more like undercar neons on the bentley.......

[Brodie337]

You can see some light leakage around the sides of the keys, so I imagine you could.

[ch_123]

The clear switches in the Deck aren't meant to be that great.... I'd go Topre. Light, quiet, and they bottom out really nicely.

As for the bigger keytray, if you move the keyboard over to the left to compensate for the mouse being too far over to the right, it just makes the keyboard uncomfortable to type on.

[Brodie337]

Gah! Just when I thought I had it sorted!

Is there anyone on this forum that owns a cherry clear 'board that I could talk to?

[ch_123]

Ripster is the person to ask. He says they're like Black Alps, which is really not a good thing. Meltie got a clear Deck and said that it was mediocre.

[Brodie337]

OK.... The search continues... The main thing that I'm concerned with is the lightish weight of the Topres and Browns, and the click of the blues. Has anyone used an Siig Minitouch? Does it come in black?

EDIT: Nevermind, they're clicky... How loud are they?

[ch_123]

The Topres aren't too light. I usually use Buckling Springs (60g+) and I had no problems with adjusting too them. The pressure is concentrated near the top of the switch and the tactile feedback is sufficiently well pronounced.

[Brodie337]

OK. What is geekhack's suggestion? The all 55 gram board or the ergonomically weighted board?

[ch_123]

If you look around, you'll see that a good few of the people who got 55g boards didn't like them. The lighter weight supposedly suits the Topres beter.

[Brodie337]

OK. With that in mind, the Brown Cherries arent much lighter. Why choose Topres over them? What does the extra $100 buy you?

Just asking is all...

[ch_123]

I haven't used the Browns myself, but from what I've seen around here, most who have tried both prefer the Topres. Usual reasons include more quiet operation and very smooth action.

The price of Topres are pretty controversial. Even the most ardent fans will tell you that they're not necessarily twice as better as the browns despite being nearly twice the price. You do get a very good keyboard.

[Brodie337]

While money isn't an object, value for money is. I think I'll go a brown Filco... I think.

[microsoft windows]

I'm sorry if I rain on your parade, but Brown Cherry keyboards really aren't too tactile. They really don't feel much different than a mushy dome keyboard. It's hard to avoid bottoming out on them and when you do, it can make a clacking noise, depending on the key cap structure. If you're looking for light feel and a Topre is too expensive, then you'd be best off with one of these. They're old and ugly, but have some of the best rubber dome switches out there. They'll never wear out and can work just like new for over 15 years of hard use.

[ch_123]

[Brodie337]

We seem to have gone off on something of a tangent. What I'm after is a fairly heavy(ish) board, with a tactile feel, and quiet would be nice. Also, a compact size would be nice.

Thanks though folks, for all the suggestions. I'm also considering an SIIG MiniTouch

EDIT: ^^^ I don't mind, I'm taking any suggestions I can get at the moment, and he has a good point about the browns...

[ch_123]

Mhmm... Buckling Springs with grease could be an option. Very difficult to get it right though.

[Brodie337]

I think I'll just force people to put up with the clicks. The Cherry Clears seem like the closest thing to what I want on paper. White ALPS or Cherry Blues seem like the last remaining options.

[ak_nala]

I have Cherry Clears and Browns on the exact same model of Board.

Browns are gentler (and really not that hard to not bottom out), but have very little tactile feel. It's there, in that they don't really feel like linear boards (or rubber domes either), but it's a subtle thing you don't really notice that much when typing at speed. Nonetheless, I think your fingers and brain sense it regardless (even at speed) and it helps them subliminally feel the actuation point.

Clears have a stronger tactile feel, but not as much as Alps Blacks (which themselves are actually pretty subtle). They are noticeably stiffer than Browns (55 g vs. 45 g), but not as bad (or with the same force curve) as Alps Blacks (60-65 g). They are definitely more work than the Browns, but also easier to get the knack of not bottoming out. If anything, subjectively, they remind me more of Alps Cream switches as used in Alps Glidepoint and Apple AEK II boards.

White Alps definitely have more tactile feel than any of the above, but they can create quite a racket as well, plus that pesky top-loaded force curve.

[cheater1034]

I'm sorry if I rain on your parade, but Brown Cherry keyboards really aren't too tactile. They really don't feel much different than a mushy dome keyboard. It's hard to avoid bottoming out on them and when you do, it can make a clacking noise, depending on the key cap structure.

Are you serious? come on :\ The browns (on the filco atleast, maybe you had some other pcb mount or sth/nth) are tactile. I have a blue cherry scorpius right here that is also plate mounted - and the only thing that is different about the key press besides a minimal force difference before the bump is the sound of bottoming out/clacking due to the materials made.

Clacking depends on the key cap, the filco doesn't "clack" and has a very nice bottoming out sound. It's just as easy, or easier, to avoid bottoming out on them as the blue - because they offer equal or more resistance aftering activating (feels like more to me), unless some people are audible typers.

I think plenty of people prefer non-clicky keyboards (I didn't think i'd like non-clicky but the feel of the browns surprised me - I get annoyed when typing on the scorpius now ) - Saying non-tactile is very inaccurate - bump is just about as pronounced as the blues. I find it extremely hard to bottom out when typing - I usually can't even tell if I bottomed out (normally I don't) - because of the force after activation. It's hard to bottom out when typing normally - the keys just have more resistance after they fall from the bump and it's enough to make you not push further (you don't increase force after you activate)

Maybe there's a difference between some of the cheaper brown cherry boards versus the filco that makes people feel this way :\ - or everyone extremely prefers clicky keyboards - Someone needs to get some force curves drawn for brown/blue to see how they look, 45g vs 50g doesn't say much anyway because they have diff. forces throughout (I still suspect the browns have more resistance than the blues after the click)

[Brodie337]

Oh dear... did I start something?

Now I'm thinking Browns might be for me again, and Clears wouldn't be that bad...

[ak_nala]

BTW - both my Cherry boards are PCB mounted, so can't say what the plate mounted Cherry switches are like.

Also, the problem with Alps is that after the Tactile or Click point it's a bit like a rug is pulled out from under. It IS possible to not bottom out with them, but they certainly don't make it easy.

Cherry switches, on the other hand, have a pretty consistent force increase right through the Tactile or Click point. This means they are more subtle than Alps, but it also makes it easier to not bottom out. They tend to be smoother than all but clean well-worn Alps as well.

[ch_123]

With the Blue Alps, because the initial resistance is quite low, you get a very buckling spring like effect from typing on them. Shame they're so hard to find.

[Mental Hobbit]

I have a new Filco with browns, a 20 years old G80 in new condition with blues, and a very well worn 5182 (ISO Version of the 5181) with Montereys side by side here, so I'm qualified to participate in this brawl.

The G80 is a little louder than the Chicony. The click is a bit sharper, the keys are a bit lighter. Overall  Cherry blues and Montereys sound and feel quite similar though. Both give totally unmistakable tactile feedback.

Compared to the G80, the Filco with browns has about 5% of the tactile feedback. It's strong enough to clearly feel it when slowly pressing a key. It's too weak to provide any guidance when touch typing though. The Filco is completely silent unless I bottom out. The browns feel good and precise, not mushy at all. They have nothing in common with blues or Montereys though.

[Brodie337]

Thanks alot for that... Food for thought.

[didjamatic]

If we remove all forum members opinions and look at the facts:
1 - You own a tactile, clicky board with medium switch noise
2 - Your S.O. doesn't appreciate you medium noise keyboard
3 - Money is not really that much of a concern

Now for some Opinion based on those facts.  You have 3 great choices (not in order).
1 - Topre
2 - Cherry Brown
3 - Tactile non-clicky ALPS

Choosing Cherry Blues in your situation would be the equivalent of putting out a fire with gasoline and could result in a war between your S.O. and mechanical keyboards and no one wants that.

[ch_123]

I wouldnt call tactile Alps quiet... Nor are they very pleasant to type on.

[Brodie337]

If we remove all forum members opinions and look at the facts:
1 - You own a tactile, clicky board with medium switch noise
2 - You're S.O. doesn't appreciate you medium noise keyboard
3 - Money is not really that much of a concern

Now for some Opinion based on those facts.  You have 3 great choices (not in order).
1 - Topre
2 - Cherry Brown
3 - Tactile non-clicky ALPS

Choosing Cherry Blues in your situation would be the equivalent of putting out a fire with gasoline and could result in a war between your S.O. and mechanical keyboards and no one wants that.

That post made my day. It looks like Topres, probably a RealForce 89U. I don't think the browns will be Tactile enough to be satisfying enough to type on.

As for the noise, I'll be moving the board into a study, so it's a case of her not being a fan, not so much an issue as a mild annoyance.

[didjamatic]

Not quiet, but neither are Cherry Browns depending on how they are used.  The Apple Extended M0115 that I have hear with Orange undampened ALPS is much quieter than any of my SMK switch keyboards.  Also a Dell AT101W with Black ALPS is quieter than the SMK, but not by much.  Again, depending on how you type on it.

[patrickgeekhack]

Compared to the G80, the Filco with browns has about 5% of the tactile feedback. It's strong enough to clearly feel it when slowly pressing a key. It's too weak to provide any guidance when touch typing though. The Filco is completely silent unless I bottom out. The browns feel good and precise, not mushy at all. They have nothing in common with blues or Montereys though.

This is what I'm been trying to say but could not find the right words. The blue Cherries and completely different from the brown Cherries. They are not like brown Cherries =  blue Cherries - click. Even if there is 5g difference in actuation force, it's still a difference. Two keyboards with the same switch but from different manufacturers don't feel the same. A Ferrari and another car with a Ferrari engine are two completely different cars. Perception is affected by a lot of things. The sound can affect how we perceive the tactile bump. The best way for the OP to find out would be to buy both the blue and the brown Cherries keyboard. Why? How keyboard X feels to me does not necessarily equate to how it will feel to someone else. I happen to like the blue Cherries better, and happen to also notice a big difference between the blue Cherries and the brown Cherries. But that's just me.

[patrickgeekhack]

Come on people , don't make this man buy a keyboard based on false pretenses, the tactile bump is easily noticed (if you can't notice it on the browns, you won't notice it on the blues either)

We are not making the OP buy a keyboard based on false pretenses. We are just giving opinions. This is all we can do here, unfortunately. All we can do is show the door. Ultimately, the OP will have to walk through the door himself.

You may notice the tactile bump easily. I do too. But, this is not a rule for everyone. Some peole just don't notice the difference between a Topre and a rubber dome. That does not mean they are insensitive, but just that we perceive things differently.

[Brodie337]

Again, thanks. It's been a pretty illuminating discussion.

Based on what I'm reading, I've narrowed it down to Blues or Topres. it comes down to whether its worth the extra $100 for the feel of the Topres...

EDIT: If the tactile bump of a brown may or may not be noticeable, I don't want to run the risk of having a very expensive board I don't enjoy typing on.

[ch_123]

This is very much one of those YMMV things. Some will tell you that the Topres aren't tactile enough. Some will tell you that the Cherry Blues are plasticky and frictiony. It should be noted that most of the former end up becoming very fond of the Topres after a few days of use.

[bigpook]

I would take the topre over the cherry blue. Its quiet, incredibly smooth, and the keyboard (HHKB or Realforce) has great build quality.
disclaimer: I don't have a Realforce, but from what I read they are excellent. My HHKB is pretty awesome though.

[Brodie337]

As I said earlier, Money isn't an issue, but value is.

The Happy Hacking and RealForce boards are twice the price of the Filco. I'm wondering if they can be twice the keyboard.

[ch_123]

As I said earlier, Money isn't an issue, but value is.

The Happy Hacking and RealForce boards are twice the price of the Filco. I'm wondering if they can be twice the keyboard.

Is a Filco 10x the keyboard that a regular rubber dome keyboard is?

Discuss.

[patrickgeekhack]

Again, thanks. It's been a pretty illuminating discussion.

Based on what I'm reading, I've narrowed it down to Blues or Topres. it comes down to whether its worth the extra $100 for the feel of the Topres...

EDIT: If the tactile bump of a brown may or may not be noticeable, I don't want to run the risk of having a very expensive board I don't enjoy typing on.

The Topre is a unique breed. Some people have been disappointed completely. Some have been disappointed at first, then love it after some time. Unfortunately, once again, you need to try it to know.

Changing Topic, when I went back home to visit my relatives I asked my brother if he wanted a keyboard and he said no. Now he is in Melbourne and bought a cheap rubber dome. I need to do some research to see where he can get a good Cherry keyboard before he flies back home on Feb. 23rd.

[Brodie337]

Yeah... Thinking of an SIIG MiniTouch or the like. I don't sleep either, insomnia sucks.... it's 3am and I don't feel tired.

EDIT: In response to Ripster

EDIT II: Of course a Filco is 10x the board!

[ch_123]

If a Filco is 10x the keyboard a rubber dome keyboard is, then there's a case to be made for the Topre being 2x the keyboard a Filco is.

Ah, new members. Always thinking that there's a linear correlation between price and quality.

[Brodie337]

I've grown up on a mix of both, although our "Enter" keys are small usually, but it's a non issue for me.

EDIT: I see your point, but a realforce is a $360AU gamble.

I'm more confident that I'll like the sharper feel of ALPS or blues.

[elbowglue]

Whatsup brodie,
So, I have the KB 5181, Filco Blue Cherry, Filco brown cherry, Compaq Mx 11800, G86 SPOS board, Compaq MX 8100, Dell 101ATW.  I these keyboards particularly in a work environment so I need them to be less loud.  My fav board is the MX 11800 (see my post in the reviews section) however if I were in a closed office with no concern about sound, I would say it is a close case between the Filco blue cherry and Chicony 5181.

The brown cherries are not *that* tactile, and I bottom out all the time with them.  With this in mind if you go with brown cherries, consider seriously getting a PCB mounted board with brown cherries, as bottoming out is great fun on these (much less so with the filco brown cherry board).  Even though the cherry browns are not that tactile, they are still the bomb.

I have not experienced topres, and expect they would be nice.  You gotta decide on what volume you can tolerate, and if you are looking for a quieter board you will probably want to go Topres or Brown cherries.  If you don't care about nose and enjoy the crisp snap of the KB 5181, you should be heading in the buckling springs direction or blue cherries.  But arguably the KB 5181 switch is better than either.  I don't know, if I had a KB 5181 with straight enter key and large backspace I would consider it the best board ever (if sound is no object)

[ch_123]

Which of the seemingly infinite amount of SMK switches does your Chicony use?

[elbowglue]

Which of the seemingly infinite amount of SMK switches does your Chicony use?

Appears to be SMK blue switches.

[ch_123]

I wonder how these Blue SMKs stack up against the Blue Alps... Is there anyone who has used both?

[maxlugar]

But arguably the KB 5181 switch is better than either.  I don't know, if I had a KB 5181 with straight enter key and large backspace I would consider it the best board ever (if sound is no object)

Call me crazy, but I like those blue SMK Monterey key switches so much, I have a dozen NIB KB-5181s stacked up in the closet.  Yes, excess, bloody, excess.

I find the large enter key and small backspace key comfortingly familiar     (see my sig).   THe 5181 would be perfect if the Control and Caps Lock keys were also in their proper locations.  

[microsoft windows]

I don't really like those small Back Scace keys, but the large Enter keys I'm fine with.

[maxlugar]

I wonder how these Blue SMKs stack up against the Blue Alps... Is there anyone who has used both?

I've never used a keyboard with genuine blue ALPS key switches.  It would be reasonable to assume that the SMK Monterey switches were an attempt to copy blue ALPS.  They feel very different from complicated white ALPS switches.

I'll have to check Sandy's site to see what keyboards used genuine blue ALPS.

[ch_123]

Call me crazy, but I like those blue SMK Monterey key switches so much, I have a dozen NIB KB-5181s stacked up in the closet.  Yes, excess, bloody, excess.

I find the large enter key and small backspace key comfortingly familiar     (see my sig).   THe 5181 would be perfect if the Control and Caps Lock keys were also in their proper locations.  

You should give a Blue Alps a shot. I was expecting them and the Whites to be the same. However, Ripster and I switch swapped, and the Whites are quite different... and nowhere near as nice.

[Brodie337]

I tend to find Backspace by tapping the very top right of my keyboard, so even if I have a large one I only use the extreme right edge of it anyway. More annoying is the displaced "\" key, but it doesn't take too long to get used to that.

EDIT: Every time I make a post, there's two or three who have posted before me by the time I'm finished!

[ch_123]

Yeah, that's how I do it too. My Model F never gives me trouble. Although sometimes I used to reach over too far and hit it's Esc key instead, which would cause some apps I run to exit...

[ak_nala]

I wouldnt call tactile Alps quiet... Nor are they very pleasant to type on.

Actually, I find AEK II style Cream Alps (dampened tactile) are both quiet and rather pleasant to type one. Blacks are a whole other story. YMMV, of course.

[itlnstln]

Ask a hundred GeekHackers and you get a hundred different suggestions.  That said, Cherry browns all the way.

[patrickgeekhack]

Ask a hundred GeekHackers and you get a hundred different suggestions.

True. Like MsKeyboard once said in another thread, it's personal opinion.

[imsto]

If I should get a kbd for the new job, I'd try cherry blue.
I do not like the feeling of typing on Topres or HHKB, just like "been disappointed completely" that's seems the same as those rubber dome(in fact it is realy rubber dome).

[imsto]

Ask a hundred GeekHackers and you get a hundred different suggestions.

this is the right answer...

most geekhackers like the kbd with normal layout.

[ch_123]

If I should get a kbd for the new job, I'd try cherry blue.
I do not like the feeling of typing on Topres or HHKB, just like "been disappointed completely" that's seems the same as those rubber dome(in fact it is realy rubber dome).

How long have you had it?

[imsto]

How long have you had it?

 

first time ,I used it for half an hour, gave up.
second, one hour gave up.
third, one hour, gave up.
then gave up forever...

[Mental Hobbit]

Heretic! ;P

[imsto]

I do more like Model M, but it's too noisy.

[mp29k]

Well, I have a blue Filco, and I have tried to like it for about a week.  I really like the Dell SK-8125, it is a stiff rubber dome, and it has a really good tactile feel.  I guess I expected to like the blue Filco infinitely better than this, but that has not been the case so far.  The Blue is loud, plasticky sounding, and I seem to make lots of mistakes on it unless I really press hard on the keys (bottom them out).  The bottom out on the Filco is harsh feeling, and on the rubber dome I am used to the bottom out is soft, and pleasant.

I know this means I would probably love the topre the best, and I will probably end up buying one soon enough, but I still want to try more cherry switches.

I would consider trading a practically new blue cherry Filco (I would say it has less than 2 hours of typing on it), for a similar condition Filco with browns if anyone is interested.  (The one I have is the non NKRO)

I also want to try a buckling spring, but I am afraid it will be too loud, and maybe a Keytronic (I know, rubber dome, but supposedly one of the better ones you can get).

Let me know if anyone is interested.  

Things I would trade for:
Great condition Industrial Model M with new feeling switches and a cable
Filco or Cherry (full size US Layout) with cherry browns.

[mp29k]

You'd have better luck posting in the classifieds section of the forum.

Thanks, and I am aware of the classifies section, I just don't know how serious I am about it yet.  Kind of shocked I paid this much for a board everyone seems to like, and I don't really like it so far... thinking maybe I just haven't had enough time on it yet.

[Brodie337]

After sitting and thinking long and hard, I think I'll go the brown.

The numpad on my Chicony has VERY worn switches, and the bump is ALOT softer than the main QWERTY section. I typed for a bit, thinking about the switches, and really nitpicking, and I'm beginning a softer switch might be the go. I can get used to a lighter or heavier switch, as long as the feel is right.

Any more thoughts would be appreciated.

P.S I get paid today (I think), so I'll probably order tomorrow night.

[elbowglue]

I'm posting my cherry brown 104 key filco for sale tonight in the classified, don't order it till ya see my post.. working overnight tonight.

[Brodie337]

Where are you located, mate?

I'm in Aus, which may or may not work out cheaper in terms of postage.

EDIT: I'm after a Tenkeyless board, if possible. Sorry about that.

[elbowglue]

Oops - I'm in US - sold it already to friend sorry:(

[jaybee]

After sitting and thinking long and hard, I think I'll go the brown.

Any more thoughts would be appreciated.

I just went through the same process in selecting a new board without the benefit of trying them (see this thread if interested) and settled on the Cherry browns.

You can see my mini-review near the end of the thread. As far as the switches and key touch are concerned, my first impression was that the tactile feedback was so subtle as to be useless. When I first took it out of the box, it didn't feel as if it had any feedback at all, and I really didn't care for it.

Two weeks later, I'm adjusting and like the keyboard more. There is a bump (not really a click) in the keystrokes, and once you start typing more lightly you get used to where it is and start feeling it. But especially (like me) if you haven't been using a mechanical board lately, the brown switches are going to feel very, very subtle.

[itlnstln]

The jump from almost anything to Cherry browns is pretty drastic, so you probably aren't going to get the full experience.  I went from ALPS to Cherry browns and I shared the same opinion at first about them being too light and practically linear.  I stuck with an MX 11800 for a couple of weeks, and I really came to enjoy the switches the more I got to use them.  For about a year now, I have been on some sort of Cherry brown-based keyboard.

[Brodie337]

Well, thats heartening news.

I'l probably buy it tonight after work.

[microsoft windows]

I've tried the brown Cherries and I was disappointed with the level of tactile feedback they deliver as well. I wouldn't go calling them special "tactile" switches, but on other sites, people tend to call them "low-force" switches, which is pretty accurate as they require little force to actuate.

[trievalot]

im about to get a Filco Brown for work, and will keep using a BS M at work......im hoping that the daily transition wont be too confusing. Well if it is ill just get another Filco!!!

[itlnstln]

im about to get a Filco Brown for work, and will keep using a BS M at work

Damn, you must live at work.  Take a break, man!

[trievalot]

Holy crap......i mean brown for home and M at work. (im a strict 9-5er )

[itlnstln]

Not me, I'm salaried. I have the rare and unique opportunity to work whenever and whereever my employer tells me. It's OK, though, I usually work 7-5 and they give me a laptop.
 
 
And it's employment, so I'm not complaining.

[trievalot]

i hope a decent laptop at least.....(as in not an Acer)
Guessing you are in IT?
the Filco is an attempt to appease my wife who hates my collection of Ms. This will be my first excursion away from them - i hope i am not dissapointed

[itlnstln]

It's a Dell D620 w/Intel graphics.  It's not great, but it gets the job done.  My work PC is a hoss, though (quad core, 4GB RAM, blah, blah, blah).  I don't work in IT, but I am a Data Analyst and SQL Jedi Master.  I do stuff like setting up data for our signs and tags system, competitive pricing, and some reporting/web dev stuff (I work for a grocery company).  I'm sort of a jack-of-all-trades.

[mp29k]

It's a Dell D620 w/Intel graphics.  It's not great, but it gets the job done.  My work PC is a hoss, though (quad core, 4GB RAM, blah, blah, blah).  I don't work in IT, but I am a Data Analyst and SQL Jedi Master.  I do stuff like setting up data for our signs and tags system, competitive pricing, and some reporting/web dev stuff (I work for a grocery company).  I'm sort of a jack-of-all-trades.

My Dad owned a small grocery store.  Do you mind me asking what grocery chain you work for?

I just left a role doing mostly data analytics and data mining work using sql too... moved into a governance role.  Basically moved from struggling with difficult data, to struggling with difficult people... I will let you know how that turns out!

[ocdonkb]

I actually did the Filco Cherry Brown - Model M BS switch thing for a while... never worked out. You end up accentuating the bad points on both:

While on the Filco Brown: "man this thing is way too light, I feel no tactile bump at all!!!!!@!@"

While on the Model M: "This is way too loud, all I hear are the springs, I can't concentrate!"

[trievalot]

What did you end up doing?
I LOVE the CLICK of the board......clients say they can hear me working while im on the phone. I could always run 2 boards at home. Does anyone else here do that......

I actually did the Filco Cherry Brown - Model M BS switch thing for a while... never worked out. You end up accentuating the bad points on both:

While on the Filco Brown: "man this thing is way too light, I feel no tactile bump at all!!!!!@!@"

While on the Model M: "This is way too loud, all I hear are the springs, I can't concentrate!"

[itlnstln]

My Dad owned a small grocery store. Do you mind me asking what grocery chain you work for?
 
I just left a role doing mostly data analytics and data mining work using sql too... moved into a governance role. Basically moved from struggling with difficult data, to struggling with difficult people... I will let you know how that turns out!

 
I work for these people.*  We are the largest private grocer in the US.
 
 
*I would just say, but I like to keep the profile low with Google.

[itlnstln]

What did you end up doing?
I LOVE the CLICK of the board......clients say they can hear me working while im on the phone. I could always run 2 boards at home. Does anyone else here do that......

I buy at least 2 keyboards of each switch to avoid this very situation.  That's why my sig is something like "*(2)."

[ocdonkb]

What did you end up doing?
I LOVE the CLICK of the board......clients say they can hear me working while im on the phone. I could always run 2 boards at home. Does anyone else here do that......

I bought a Realforce 87U

[trievalot]

So im guessing from your sig, you got a realforce?

I actually did the Filco Cherry Brown - Model M BS switch thing for a while... never worked out. You end up accentuating the bad points on both:

While on the Filco Brown: "man this thing is way too light, I feel no tactile bump at all!!!!!@!@"

While on the Model M: "This is way too loud, all I hear are the springs, I can't concentrate!"

[trievalot]

we must have submitted at the same time!
the driver for the filco is to keep my wife happy....she no likes my M anymore, and has threatened to put a USB dome board there.

[platon]

The jump from almost anything to Cherry browns is pretty drastic, so you probably aren't going to get the full experience.  I went from ALPS to Cherry browns and I shared the same opinion at first about them being too light and practically linear.  I stuck with an MX 11800 for a couple of weeks, and I really came to enjoy the switches the more I got to use them.  For about a year now, I have been on some sort of Cherry brown-based keyboard.

I bought a majestouch brown for work. First day i was using excessive force to press the keys. They were bottoming out a lot. The filco's thin keycaps were hitting the metal plate and made a sharp and loud sound.

The second  day i started adjusting and realized that the feel was way better using less force. From that point on i tried to use only just enough pressure to activate the keys.

 After two months with it i really enjoy the brown switches. When i type relatively fast (im not a touch typist) with very little pressure, it feels very smooth and i do get gentle tiny feedback from the switches.
 
In contrast, i use a model M at home. I like the M too but i when i first touch it for the first time after work, i get this feeling that i should start making an effort to type.

[trievalot]

i did try the F for a bit before putting it in storage......the contrast between F and M is huge, the cherry brown to F would be like a lead switch.

[ocdonkb]

we must have submitted at the same time!
the driver for the filco is to keep my wife happy....she no likes my M anymore, and has threatened to put a USB dome board there.

Here's the thing though, and I went through this myself - If you're a Model M user, and you've adapted to the tactility/resistence of the BS switch, using a Cherry Brown board will almost be just as loud, because you'll inevitably bottom out all of the time.

You can try to train yourself for a lighter touch, but that'd be hard if at the same time you're also moonlighting on the Model M.

[itlnstln]

You can try to make your wife happy with a keyboard, but unless she's a geek, too, then I wouldn't try too hard with it.  Go for flowers or something else she might really like.  For my GF, it's Chicago Cubs and Bears memorabilia, flowers, and wine.  She could give a damn less about a keyboard.
 
 
I got bored at work, so I left early and started drinking, so what do I know.

[microsoft windows]

When I get bored at work, I always take a trip to the Geekhack forum.

[itlnstln]

When I get bored at work, I always take a trip to the Geekhack forum.

Yep.  That's why I'm here 11-12 hours a day and only on business days.

[trievalot]

I'll be around on iPhone now! Thanks imav!!!

[pcode]

When I get bored at work, I always take a trip to the Geekhack forum on a web translator that translates from English to well...English.

[Brodie337]

Just an update...

I'm just waiting on some money to go into paypal, and I should have bought the board come Monday or Tuesday.

[trievalot]

what did you decide on again? and where from and cost ? (lots of questions sorry)

[Brodie337]

I'm going to go for a Filco Tenkeyless with Cherry Brown switches, and a spare set of blank keycaps, all from Elite Keyboards.

Cost is around $180AU, including shipping to aus.

[patrickgeekhack]

I'm going to go for a Filco Tenkeyless with Cherry Brown switches, and a spare set of blank keycaps, all from Elite Keyboards.

Cost is around $180AU, including shipping to aus.

Enjoy your keyboard, and never come back here :-) If you do, you may end up with a keyboard collection.

[InSanCen]

Enjoy your keyboard, and never come back here :-) If you do, you will end up with a large keyboard collection.

There, amended for accuracy.

[patrickgeekhack]

There, amended for accuracy.

More accurate indeed :-)

[devilcm3]

now i feel like adding blacks to my list.....
we need more people to post cheap rubber domes here.....too many casualties caused by mechanical switches thread

[microsoft windows]

When I joined this forum I had 2 keyboards. Now I have 7.

[maxlugar]

When I joined this forum I had 2 keyboards. Now I have 7.

Get out of town !  No way! Seven??? You have seven keyboards???

[microsoft windows]

Yes. I have 1 Model M5-2, 1 ALPS keyboard, and 5 old rubber dome keyboards from the 1980's and early 1990's.

[ricercar]

Oh, well. We thought you meant you were up to 7 mechanical boards. That would have been TOTALLY out of character.

:behindsofa:

[kishy]

Oh, well. We thought you meant you were up to 7 mechanical boards. That would have been TOTALLY out of character.

:behindsofa:

What was the total that I came up with for Model Ms? 12.5?

[ricercar]

I have only 2.5 Model Ms. I really really need my order of nuts n bolts to get here.

[trievalot]

I started with 1 modem m
Just got my Filco Brown 87 and extra keypad today (THANKS HAATA)
MAN its nice. so quiet but still nice to type on. (unless you bottom out the keys like my wife )
Now i have 4 Ms, an F and the Filco. (do i want a Topre ??)

[trievalot]

Get out of town !  No way! Seven??? You have seven keyboards???

Max, you have more than that many Fs!

wow the difference between the Filco brown and F is HUGE. i do like the F still though, feels so satisfying.