IBM Model M Space Saver Pricing

[skcheng]

I hope this is the correct to place to ask about pricing??

What the going prices for used and new Model M space savers?   I see that the last few new ones on Ebay have sold for over $200.   And I see that they're sold out on the keyboard sites.

Thx,

skc

[itlnstln]

I think they have cooled off a bit, but still expect to pay in the $125 to $150 range for one, though.

[skcheng]

I think they have cooled off a bit, but still expect to pay in the $125 to $150 range for one, though.

Is that for a new board?   Or is that a general range for the Model M space saver in general?  

thx

[kriminal]

just saw one going for 130usd on ebay...

[itlnstln]

Is that for a new board?   Or is that a general range for the Model M space saver in general?  

thx

I think it's just in the general range for any Space Saver that comes up.  Definitely expect to pay more for something NIB, though.

[Shadin]

Yeah, $100-$150 is the price I've been seeing.  I really, really want one of them, but unfortunately that's out of my price range at the moment for unnecessary items.

[microsoft windows]

I'd rather just have one with the number pad. It's paying less for an extra feature. Sounds logical to me.

Kind of funny how my Model M is much rarer than any space saver and I got it for free.

[didjamatic]

I recently sold 2 used space savers at .01 and No Reserve.  One went for $76 and one for $94.  The cheaper one was missing a height adjuster and both were uncleaned but in good used condition.

[skcheng]

I recently sold 2 used space savers at .01 and No Reserve.  One went for $76 and one for $94.  The cheaper one was missing a height adjuster and both were uncleaned but in good used condition.

You don't have any more for sale do you Didj???

[skcheng]

I'd rather just have one with the number pad. It's paying less for an extra feature. Sounds logical to me.

Kind of funny how my Model M is much rarer than any space saver and I got it for free.

I like the size of the space saver and the cool way to activate the number pad towards the right side of the keyboard.   I don't need one, but it would nice to add one to the collection.

[skcheng]

just saw one going for 130usd on ebay...

That's the one I'm looking at and considering  ;-)))

[didjamatic]

Nope, those were the only 2 space savers I had.

[kishy]

I'd rather just have one with the number pad. It's paying less for an extra feature. Sounds logical to me.

Kind of funny how my Model M is much rarer than any space saver and I got it for free.

While I generally agree with this (because I use the numpad, be it as a numpad or not), I'll play "devil's advocate" here.

To the type of person who would buy a 'tenkeyless' keyboard, the lack of a number pad is itself an additional feature. They want their mouse closer to their keyboard, or their keyboard tray is very small, or something like this. Perhaps they prefer scissor-switch separate numpads instead, or just want to have a separate numpad to move around as needed. Or they could be minimalists (aka "crazies") who just want everything to be the minimal amount of what it could be (iPad et al).

[bigpook]

I think they just look cool without the numpad.

[itlnstln]

I think they just look cool without the numpad.

Conformist.  Numpad-hater.

[skcheng]

Conformist.  Numpad-hater.

Wouldn't a full keyboard lover be more of a conformist??   Seems like the price and rarity of the space saver (compared to the ubiquitous nature of the standard Model M)  screams individuality and progressive thinking   :tongue:

[Phaedrus2129]

I prefer the original Model M. The greater length adds that extra weight and leverage needed to really crack someone's skull, you know what I mean?

[kriminal]

I prefer the original Model M. The greater length adds that extra weight and leverage needed to really crack someone's skull, you know what I mean?

sounds like an ms windows quote there, me i prefer kb's with out numpads..

[skcheng]

SK, don't listen to these dweebs.

The IBM Space Saving Keyboard is the KING OF KEYBOARDS!

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T-shirt not included.

Very cool!!   Especially the grey one.   Which one is your favorite?   Are they all basically the same??   Does the add-on number pad work with these keyboards?

thx,

skc

[maxlugar]

SK, don't listen to these dweebs.

The IBM Space Saving Keyboard is the KING OF KEYBOARDS!

SK, don't listen to this dweeb either, the IBM PC AT 84-key Model F is, and always will be the King of Keyboards



Nothing else compares to buckling springs over capacitive contact key switches.  Bag the Model M without the number pad and try the King of Keyboards.

Or, if you're hell bent on getting a keyboard with a small footprint, get yourself a Happy Hacking Professional 2 keyboard.  The Topre capacitive key switches don't click, but the typing experience is excellent.

Disclaimer:  My collection includes a wide variety of Model Ms but I have not acquired nor typed on a Model M Space Saver.  The smaller footprint may provide some advantages related to mousing, etc, but the Model M's buckling springs over membrane key switches feel flat and dull in comparison to the Model F.

PS:  Model F keyboards were not assembled using plastic rivets and will never require a "nuts and bolts" mod.

PPS:  ripster owns a pristine NIB IBM PC AT 84-key Model F and I bet he would make you a smokin' deal  

[EverythingIBM]

The one I modded with nuts/bolts feels the best.  It also has the weird hieroglyphic APL keys for my anti-Otaku moods.

I think you may be thinking of the M4 optional numpad - entirely different beast.

Hieroglyphics? Some of the symbols actually look cyrillic to me (especially the г). Although, the resolution is too low, so, I can't fully tell.

[HaaTa]

Unless he's talking about the Mikmaq or Chinese languages he's just being an illiterate/lazy american. Cause last time I checked Cleopatra didn't use a keyboard to chat with Mark Antony.

[maxlugar]

My Model F reminds me of my departed Father In Law's Cadillac DeVille.  Nice ride but antiquated.

Very funny, and your analogy is spot on ...  if you are referring to the 83-key PC/XT Model F.

Far from antiquated, the 84-key seamlessly integrates with any modern PC.  I'm typing on one now connected to an HP Compaq 8510W laptop without a "blue cube" ps2 to USB converter.  (the docking station has a ps/2 keyboard port).

Yeah, the layout is antiquated, but it's a small trade off for a superior typing experience.

[ch_123]

But it doesn't have an integrated trackball!

[Runs for Cover]

[HaaTa]

Why would I need that?

[ch_123]

Because I found one in a bin, and therefore every other keyboard sucks. Oh, and I like dead rabbits.

And yes, what the hell is the deal with Arch Hurd anyway? Why couldn't they make something useful like Arch Solaris or Arch FreeBSD?

[HaaTa]

Lol

[Rajagra]

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It was just a matter of time before the keyboard pyramid schemes started here...

[ch_123]

I hear if you keep your Model M in a pyramid, the springs never wear out.

[itlnstln]

It was just a matter of time before the keyboard pyramid schemes started here...

Hmm... the Church of Keyboardtology.  I'm your host, L. Don Cupboard.

[spremino]

The IBM Space Saving Keyboard is the KING OF KEYBOARDS!

Indeed it is since - unlike recent wannabes, if I'm not mistaken - it does not lack its numpad. It just places it somewhere else.

I agree about the Model F maybe feeling nicer, but outdated by now.

Why? Why? Why isn't Unicomp able to promote its great keyboards as deserved? :-(

[itlnstln]

Indeed it is since - unlike recent wannabes, if I'm not mistaken - it does not lack its numpad. It just places it somewhere else.

This.  The IBM Space Saving and the Topre Realforce do this right.  I wish Filco would follow suit.

[didjamatic]

I thought this was the King of Keyboards... the IBM Displaywriter Beam Spring.

[spremino]

I thought this was the King of Keyboards... the IBM Displaywriter Beam Spring.

You've made your point. Maybe the BS enthusiasts should say the Space Saver is the king (or queen) of tenkeyless keyboards ;-)

[sethstorm]

The only Space Saver I'd go for.

[kishy]

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The only Space Saver I'd go for.

Aha, but AFAIK the majority of those are a type of rubber dome.

[skcheng]

The one I modded with nuts/bolts feels the best.  It also has the weird hieroglyphic APL keys for my anti-Otaku moods.

I think you may be thinking of the M4 optional numpad - entirely different beast.

I see.   You're right, the keypad is for the M4.   Did IBM make a separate number pad for the space saver?    Not that I would need one.   Just curious.    At work, we enter a LOT of numbers and the number pad comes in handy.    Otherwise, I just don't need it.

[skcheng]

SK, don't listen to this dweeb either, the IBM PC AT 84-key Model F is, and always will be the King of Keyboards



Nothing else compares to buckling springs over capacitive contact key switches.  Bag the Model M without the number pad and try the King of Keyboards.

Or, if you're hell bent on getting a keyboard with a small footprint, get yourself a Happy Hacking Professional 2 keyboard.  The Topre capacitive key switches don't click, but the typing experience is excellent.

Disclaimer:  My collection includes a wide variety of Model Ms but I have not acquired nor typed on a Model M Space Saver.  The smaller footprint may provide some advantages related to mousing, etc, but the Model M's buckling springs over membrane key switches feel flat and dull in comparison to the Model F.

PS:  Model F keyboards were not assembled using plastic rivets and will never require a "nuts and bolts" mod.

PPS:  ripster owns a pristine NIB IBM PC AT 84-key Model F and I bet he would make you a smokin' deal  

Interesting looking keyboard.   Layout is sorta odd with the tiny backspace and Fn keys on the left of the board.    So does this keyboard feel more like a Reaflforce/HHKB2 or an IBM BS keyboard?  

What do these sell for?   A quick search on ebay only turned up the 83 key model?

[skcheng]

I thought this was the King of Keyboards... the IBM Displaywriter Beam Spring.

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Is this thing as enormous as it looks?   Like a big pillow??   Hey, does that speaker work??   I like keyboards with integrated sound.    This Displaywriter could house a nice subwoofer.

[didjamatic]

My Space Saver has 87 keys and goes Thock Thock Thock.

[sethstorm]

Aha, but AFAIK the majority of those are a type of rubber dome.

Extra keys and the arrow layout are what make it worth it.

3 questions:
* How bad of a rubber dome?
* Are they key-interchangeable w/ other rubber dome Model M's (e.g. Unicomp's SmartTrex)?
* How easy is it to tell between the rubber dome ones and buckling spring ones?

At the very least, that space saver makes up for the missing keys.  If you really wanted to be a masochist, you could put the numpad up there.

[itlnstln]

* How easy is it to tell between the rubber dome ones and buckling spring ones?

Other than knowing/researching the model numbers, just by looking, it would be pretty hard to tell, IMO.  IIRC, IBM (et. al.) used basically the same overall design for the keycaps as the buckling spring models but modified them to press the dome (there's a pic somewhere around here).

[didjamatic]

Is this thing as enormous as it looks?   Like a big pillow??   Hey, does that speaker work??   I like keyboards with integrated sound.    This Displaywriter could house a nice subwoofer.

Yes, it's pretty big. A few people on here have them, but no protocol translator has been made for it to be usable on a modern system.  But kbdbabel wants to make a translator for it.  Mine is going on the wall until someone makes a translator, then it will replace my Topre as my daily driver.  The beam spring mechanism is a dream to type on.

[sethstorm]

Other than knowing/researching the model numbers, just by looking, it would be pretty hard to tell, IMO.  IIRC, IBM (et. al.) used basically the same overall design for the keycaps as the buckling spring models but modified them to press the dome (there's a pic somewhere around here).

If it's like the Smart-Trex ones, I'm fine w/ that.

[skcheng]

Back to IBM Model M Space Saver, which model year would be most/least desirable?   Do these fall in line with the Standard model M during the years of production?    Pretty much the same thing?    

I think I might be picking up two of these today?    I don't mind paying top dollar for things that I enjoy, but I hate paying "over" top dollar if ya know what I mean.   I totally understand that items like the Space Saver are priced by the market.  

Thx

[itlnstln]

Check out the "Did Quality Decline?" thread in the Keyboard Mods forum.  I think you'll find that it really doesn't matter what year or manufacturer your Model M is from.  They're all about the same, especially mechanically.

[sethstorm]

And the 122 Key?   Even on my monster keyboard tray it barely leaves room for a trackball.

The Model F AT is a perfect example that obsessing over switches doesn't make for the best keyboard.

The Terminal Model F's make up for the layout-related shortcomings.

Of course, they aren't for everyone, but they do make certain combinations(Model F in a sturdy case) usable.

[itlnstln]

The Model F AT is a perfect example that obsessing over switches doesn't make for the best keyboard.

Agreed.  I don't think throwing more keys at the problem is a suitable solution.  Even if someone could get a beam spring keyboard to work on a modern computer, what the hell would you do with it?  It certainly isn't usable.

[sethstorm]

?

Another keyboard that looks more impressive in the pictures than in actual use.

Especially that Nav cluster.

Mostly fixed in terms of appearance/usability.  Yes, I'm going to call Unicomp for some blanks - but the ISO-sized Enter/Shift are the stubborn ones in that regard.

It took a bit of getting used to, I'd admit.  But it is usable as a daily driver.  

Again, I reiterate that it is not for everybody.

[maxlugar]

I hear if you keep your Model M in a pyramid, the springs never wear out.

True.  But the springs on the 84-key Model Fs don't require a pyramid to last forever.