IBM Model M Space Saver Pricing

[pfink]

I guess I need to check, but I wonder if the keys off of my Black M13 will fit on the mini??

Most definitely.

[kishy]

Most definitely.

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Now all it needs is a Trackpoint, and it can be called the Model M6.5.

[sethstorm]

Now all it needs is a Trackpoint, and it can be called the Model M6.5.

More like M8.25 (or whatever fits the golden ratio).

...and for those who want one, I am selling one.

[maxlugar]

I ripster calls his Space Saving keyboard "Dirty ****."  

That said, my opinion is everything.  Listen to me.

That's correct SK.  I mean to say everyone's opinion on geekhack is irrelevant except for Sly (and bigpook).  You can take their advice to the bank.  OK, OK, occasionally you can even count on ripster and the rest of us for "reliable" advice (in our own respective and never humble opinions).

I also use the term "Dirty Little ****"...but not in reference to a keyboard  

[maxlugar]

Do you have one for sale???    I'm in "buy" mode these days.    10 computers and 12 keyboards in the last 2 months  LOL.  

I will look for a nice 84 key Model F.   Right now I couldn't tell you which I prefer?   Blue Cherry, Brown Cherry or BS??    I like them all.  

If all of us agreed on what the perfect keyboard is, there would be no need for a forum like Geekhack.   It's the opinions that keep it all interesting.  

Thx.

skc

My 84-key collection is up to 8.  PM me and we'll work something out.

[bigpook]

I thought it was your rapper name.  Maybe it's your drug dealer name, and you cut your coke with powdered hazelnut coffee creamer.


I'm a boxer.

no, wrong, and no coke for me.

I should be working today, but my vehicle is at the shop.

[itlnstln]

I should be working today, but my vehicle is at the shop.

Yeah, right.  You used that one last week.  At least say you're sick or something.

[ch_123]

If you want a Model F AT  just to try a infinitesimally superior switch I wouldn't pay about $30 for one on Ebay.

Sounds like MW hacked ripster's account....

[itlnstln]

The Model F AT is a nice "Vintage" item for collectors and people who can live without a Navigation cluster and don't mind large keyboards.   The Model M Mini is the keyboard for people who use it every day instead of storing them in a box.

This.

Sounds like MW hacked ripster's account....

Nah, Geekgirl's on the rag.  He'll be back to normal in about a week.

[itlnstln]

Maaaamorieeeees...  err...  Meeemorieees.

[ch_123]

The Model F AT is a nice "Vintage" item for collectors and people who can live without a Navigation cluster and don't mind large keyboards.

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No navigation cluster... odd... what's that thing with arrows on the right hand side?

[ch_123]

That depends on the state of your numlock.

Don't you have to have the numlock off when using the Space Saver, lest it do the weird laptop-numpad shuffle?

[kriminal]

More like M8.25 (or whatever fits the golden ratio).

...and for those who want one, I am selling one.

selling what exactly?

[itlnstln]

While you two sort things out, I'll be over here typing numbers and moving around the page all at the same time.

[itlnstln]

I did, I gain an extra Fn key on the left; Delete also became Backspace.  My numpad exploded, though.  I wish I could have read the manual.

[itlnstln]

I tried the ones on the numpad, and they didn't do anything as far as I can tell.

[itlnstln]

I think it has something to do with how the NumLock interacts with a companion keyboard, but since my 'board doesn't have a NumLock, I can't test for it.  I leave all the DIPs off on the numpad as it works the way I want it to out of the box.

Me, personally, I would rather work in the box.  Or just work the box itself.

[skcheng]

Most definitely.

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Interesting.   Did you paint the case on a Mini?  Or is that a case from some other keyboard.    Do you still use the scroll lock numpad with that setup?

skc

[skcheng]

My 84-key collection is up to 8.  PM me and we'll work something out.

PM Sent

[itlnstln]

So when I use my Kinesis keypad the Numlock light on the Realforce blinks, indicating that the keypad is sending "NumLock Make, Number, NumLock Break".

Does the Topre do that?

Tried it with a laptop yet to see if Numlock has to be on?

I need to try it with my laptop; I haven't done it yet.

[skcheng]

The Model F AT is a nice "Vintage" item for collectors and people who can live without a Navigation cluster and don't mind large keyboards.   The Model M Mini is the keyboard for people who use it every day instead of storing them in a box.

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So back to the original topic SKcheng got a great deal buying a $100 IBM Mini because he got to see it first and didn't pay shipping.  If you want a Model F AT  just to try a slightly superior (and LOUD) switch I wouldn't pay more than about $30 for a used one on Ebay.  If you're patient they come up every so often mis-listed as "Model F" without the "AT" being in the search.

Max, you should try a Mini!  It would make your comments more valuable in this post.

That grey Mini is gorgeous.  Just one sexy looking kb!!  If you don't mind me asking, what did that one cost ya??    And I like how the red escape contrasts with the other colors.  

I'm pretty happy about spending $100 on my Mini.   It's a nice board despite the grimy SDL cable which actually is cleaning up nicely.  

I didn't even notice that the AT doesn't have the navigation cluster.   So you agree that the switch on the AT is superior.....albeit slightly??

You da' MAN!!   Your word is gospel  :-))

[maxlugar]

The Model F AT is a nice "Vintage" item for collectors and people who can live without a Navigation cluster and don't mind large keyboards.   The Model M Mini is the keyboard for people who use it every day instead of storing them in a box.
`

So back to the original topic SKcheng got a great deal buying a $100 IBM Mini because he got to see it first and didn't pay shipping.  If you want a Model F AT  just to try a infinitesimally superior switch I wouldn't pay about $30 for one on Ebay.  If you're patient they come up every so often mis-listed as "Model F" without the "AT" being in the search.

Max, you should try a Mini!  It would make your comments more valuable in this post.

Yes, perhaps I will try a Model M Space Saving "Mini" keyboard.  Why not, I've burned money on just about everything else possible.

Your 84-key PC AT is vintage because you decided to keep it in the box.


What do you think most people would consider any Model M keyboard (including the Unicomps)  Umm....Vintage, retro, clunky, out of vogue comes to mind.

The unpopular layout of the 84-key Model F aside, you cannot possibly make a comment like "infinitesimally superior switch" with a straight face.  Whether you love or hate the Model F key switches, the difference when compared with Model M key switches is anything but "infinitesimal".  Dramatically different would be more accurate.

I will continue to pound away on my "vintage" daily driver 84-key PC AT keyboards in ignorant bliss while you pound away on your Model M Mini.  

SK, after you get an IBM PC AT 84-key Model F keyboard in good condition, you let us know if the buckling springs over capacitive contacts typing experience is infinitesimally different than your Model M Mini...with a straight face.

EDit:  BTW, your messiah, the rip meister, held out for a sealed NIB 84-key Model F and shelled out about $500 in coin.  Now his advice to you is "Son, don't follow in my fooliish ways and waste your hard earned money on a "vintage" keyboard.  You should spend no more than $30."   In the meantime, he stashed his 84-key away in the closet (taking extra care to keep the box in pristine condition) with the fiendish plan to sell it to a Japanese or Korean collector for thousands of dollars in about 20 years.  Pure evil.

[maxlugar]

You da' MAN!!   Your word is gospel  :-))

God help you.  As nasty as he is, I think my views, in general, are more aligned with webwit.

[maxlugar]

I need to try it with my laptop; I haven't done it yet.

Yes, both the Topre Realforce 23U and Filco brown Cherry key pads activate the Num Lock LED when the number keys are pressed.

[pfink]

Interesting.   Did you paint the case on a Mini?  Or is that a case from some other keyboard.    Do you still use the scroll lock numpad with that setup?

I painted the case on one of my minis using Dupli-Color Vinyl & Fabric spray paint/dye. Details here:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6759


I never use the scroll lock numpad so it's not a big deal to me that the black keys don't have the numpad legends.

[skcheng]

I painted the case on one of my minis using Dupli-Color Vinyl & Fabric spray paint/dye. Details here:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6759


I never use the scroll lock numpad so it's not a big deal to me that the black keys don't have the numpad legends.

I think the numpad is my favorite part of the Mini.   I'm already using it.  Nice that I don't have to move my hand way over to the right when I'm entering a bunch of numbers.

[skcheng]

God help you.  As nasty as he is, I think my views, in general, are more aligned with webwit.

I don't know webwit yet.    He bashed on me a little when I inquired about how to clean keys though.....

[kriminal]

skull esc keys are anti-webwit,  get em... time to pm max lugar

[kishy]

This actually really suits how you present yourself around here.

Calm, formal (dressed in black), but keeping a close eye on us and ready to attack with deadly force at any moment.

[EverythingIBM]

This actually really suits how you present yourself around here.

Calm, formal (dressed in black), but keeping a close eye on us and ready to attack with deadly force at any moment.

I thought webwit was more like this:

[bigpook]

oh man, I had to laugh at big bird.  that made my day.

[kriminal]

cant blame a guy for wanting to impart his keyboard e-panis on us

[skcheng]

Are Model M keys REALLY durable, or did I just acquire a board that saw minimal use??   These keys really look barely touched by human fingers:

[skcheng]

cant blame a guy for wanting to impart his keyboard e-panis on us

Kriminal. how do you like your deck???   I'm an illuminated keyboard fanboy.   Don't need them to type on, but I loves me a bright lit up keyboard.

[kriminal]

Kriminal. how do you like your deck???   I'm an illuminated keyboard fanboy.   Don't need them to type on, but I loves me a bright lit up keyboard.

its actually quite good! use it for gaming mainly only really as imho seems more fitting than using the browns, quite small also.

i have 2 decks, gave one to the gf.

[EverythingIBM]

The dye was a good technique "in the day", but they do wear off and get shiny. Probably more-so if you're a greasy-fingered-pizza-cheezie-eating trekkie. If you have "food fingers" all the time, it will really affect your labels.

If you want to preserve the labels, plaster them with masking tape.

[skcheng]

The dye was a good technique "in the day", but they do wear off and get shiny. Probably more-so if you're a greasy-fingered-pizza-cheezie-eating trekkie. If you have "food fingers" all the time, it will really affect your labels.

If you want to preserve the labels, plaster them with masking tape.

Masking tape to preserve the labels huh??   I'm anal, but not that anal  :laugh:

[EverythingIBM]

Dye won't wear off.  It goes down into the key a few microns.  I think you are thinking of your rubber dome IBM/Chicony.

No actually, I think the chicony IBM labels are the best; not one is worn off.

My friend's "industrial" model M actually has all the labels worn off. He said the spring tension is fine though.

[sethstorm]

No actually, I think the chicony IBM labels are the best; not one is worn off.

My friend's "industrial" model M actually has all the labels worn off. He said the spring tension is fine though.

Are those the SK-? models?  Mine aren't worn off, but the WASD cluster is a bit darker than the rest.  

On the upside, your friend has instant blanks.

[sethstorm]

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Explain?  Unless the filename says it all, that's a bit more than a few microns.

[ch_123]

My friend's "industrial" model M actually has all the labels worn off. He said the spring tension is fine though.

I know a guy who knows a guy on the internet who met a guy in a bar who thought he heard a guy say...

[kishy]

I know a guy who knows a guy on the internet who met a guy in a bar who thought he heard a guy say...

...that he enjoyed cranberry juice.

[skcheng]

More updates on my adventures in "Mini" land.  

I finally get a chance to visit my local True Value and I pick up a 5.5mm socket driver and the case is finally apart.  

I knew something was rattling around in the case.   I was hoping it was some toast or a cracker or something.   Nope......it's a broken support:



No problem here.  I'll just glue and clamp and it should hold up.  

Now this is more troubling:


By my count, that's 13 broken rivets.  Is that what they're called??  Odd since this keyboard does not look abused.   Do these simply snap with time?  With simple typing??   Maybe this keyboard was used as a baseball bat???  

Still......very clean inside.  Almost nothing in there:



And the adventure continues.   Time for the ol' nuts/bolts/washers mod.  

skc

[skcheng]

The one I modded with nuts/bolts feels the best.  It also has the weird hieroglyphic APL keys for my anti-Otaku moods.

I think you may be thinking of the M4 optional numpad - entirely different beast.

Ugggghhhh!!   Trips to 2 hardware stores and I come up empty.   I guess they don't stock small parts in Northern Jersey.   I really wanted to bolt my Mini together.   A quick call to McMaster-Carr and I should have the parts by Tues.  

I went ahead and ordered the stainless screws.  $3.37/100 vs $3.32/100 for the zinc plated.  

Maybe my blank keys will be here by then too.  

Rip......any other tips on this mod beyond what you've described in your tutorial?  

Thx

skc

[skcheng]

Although I just fixed a Industrial M13 with a snapped post it's pretty unusual.   Unfortunately that many rivets missing isn't all that unusual.


Post in the Nuts/Bolt mod thread if you have questions as you go along.

Okay.  Will do.  I reassembled my Mini and I'm typing on it right now.   It's loud LOL.   But it sure is fun to type on.   Maybe I'll throw in a bid on the NIB one.  I don't know??    I'd probably rather have "used" ones to mod/tinker with.

[skcheng]

The NIB IBM Mini sold last night for $208.50.  The one before that from the same seller for $202.50.  A used (and dirty Blue Label) is currently listed for $120.

The seller relists these like clockwork every 2 weeks.  I bought one from him last year.  Must be sitting on quite a stack.

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Where do you see the used and dirty one listed??   I searched IBM Model M and IBM Space Saver/Saving and came up blank.

[ch_123]

Maybe it's Unicomp, making them in secret and doctoring the labels and packaging.

[skcheng]

$130 here.  Haven't bought from Vintagecomputermuseum but their prices seem high for what you get.

And linking in an Ebay listing to another seller (clickykeyboards) is very tacky.   Even I wouldn't do that.

Thanks for the link.   I'll pass on that one.   I guess the price doesn't seem too unreasonable .....

Ebay is fine, but I'm having more fun buying from Geekhack members.   And the items I've purchased here have been much better represented.

[skcheng]

$130 here.  Haven't bought from Vintagecomputermuseum but their prices seem high for what you get.

And linking in an Ebay listing to another seller (clickykeyboards) is very tacky.   Even I wouldn't do that.

I just checked out the other listings and the $130 Model M Mini is the best deal he has going??   Some of those prices are simply outrageous.  At least compared to other Ebay sellers.

[skcheng]

My adventure with my 1st Space Saving IBM Model M 84 Key Mini ended last night.   I completed the Ripster nuts/bolts mod  (with many mistakes), and I'm thrilled with the end result.   Thanks for friendly Geekhackers, I've also picked up several more of these keyboards of various vintages and various pricepoints.   This is a GREAT keyboard imho.    More on the mods on Ripster's mod thread, but here are some pics of my finished keyboard.   Blank keys courtesy of Chuck over at Unicomp who is simply GREAT to deal with.   For those who are interested, Unicomp is capable of printing the 84 Space Saving numpad keys.  

On to the pics:








Any my final Mini porn shot.  Love THOSE Space Saving numpad keys: