[IC] XDA Oblique (GB live!)

[dr_derivative]

- I know that even on current Apple keyboards, the Control key is just text, but since it has an official ^ icon, why not use that also?
- Same with Escape: ⎋

I want to keep it as similar as possible to the icon mods on the AEK, I think a ^ or ⎋ would look out of place given the theme of the keyset.
Plus, Apple didn't follow any standards for icons, look at that power key or that ridiculous numpad enter symbol ).

[ideus]

I agree with Dr. D. that there is no standards that can serve as a foundation for this set, just as a reference. Let's allow him to further refine the set and see what would be the final proposal.

[quaddepos]

I agree with Dr. D. that there is no standards that can serve as a foundation for this set, just as a reference. Let's allow him to further refine the set and see what would be the final proposal.

 

[dr_derivative]

I've updated the OP with some updated IC results for anyone interested in the statistics.

For the international ISO kit, do you guys think the key in the top left corner (above tab) should be added? I left them out in the IC to save on cost but a number of people have asked me to add it back in. The issue is that every ISO layout has a different key there and it will add like 5 extra keys to the international kit. Personally I rarely use that key — escape is placed in that positions on lots of keyboards — but I want to hear the opinions of international ISO users before I make a decision either way.

[nguyenhimself]

Well it seems that all the old Macintosh icons are trademarked by Apple and can't be used for commercial purposes

http://www.mactech.com/articles/develop/issue_13/104-117_Q_As.html

[pomk]

I've updated the OP with some updated IC results for anyone interested in the statistics.

For the international ISO kit, do you guys think the key in the top left corner (above tab) should be added? I left them out in the IC to save on cost but a number of people have asked me to add it back in. The issue is that every ISO layout has a different key there and it will add like 5 extra keys to the international kit. Personally I rarely use that key — escape is placed in that positions on lots of keyboards — but I want to hear the opinions of international ISO users before I make a decision either way.

There was a poll in the 9009r2 international kit thread, and about 80% of the people prefer to pay a bit more to get proper support. FYI the kit you have is missing also the swe/fi number 4 key, which is also a complete dealbreaker.

[dr_derivative]

There was a poll in the 9009r2 international kit thread, and about 80% of the people prefer to pay a bit more to get proper support. FYI the kit you have is missing also the swe/fi number 4 key, which is also a complete dealbreaker.

I noticed the 4¤ key, that was a mistake on my part in the original layouts.

Here's the kit so far. I still have to move around some of the legends to make sure they're properly aligned.

[dr_derivative]

Well it seems that all the old Macintosh icons are trademarked by Apple and can't be used for commercial purposes

http://www.mactech.com/articles/develop/issue_13/104-117_Q_As.html

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From what I understand Apple trademarks all their icons, including happy mac and sad mac which were very popular options in the IC.
I still have to do some more research but it looks like I can't use any of them. I was hoping they'd come under fair use or something, but it doesn't look like it.

[pomk]

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looking good !

[emperact]

There was a poll in the 9009r2 international kit thread, and about 80% of the people prefer to pay a bit more to get proper support. FYI the kit you have is missing also the swe/fi number 4 key, which is also a complete dealbreaker.

I noticed the 4¤ key, that was a mistake on my part in the original layouts.

Here's the kit so far. I still have to move around some of the legends to make sure they're properly aligned.

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Looks amazing - I'm in!

[tex_live_utility]

Fun idea, but I'd be careful around the legality around "trade dress" in the USA. I would hope this is covered under fair use, or at least that Apple would look the other way, but one can never be too sure.

I would have also loved to see this set in the "EDRUG MIX" profile, which is wide and flat. Obviously it's too late to change, but I do wonder if NPKC would be open to doing custom runs.

[dr_derivative]

Fun idea, but I'd be careful around the legality around "trade dress" in the USA. I would hope this is covered under fair use, or at least that Apple would look the other way, but one can never be too sure.

I'm pretty sure using a similar font and colour isn't copying Apple enough to be considered trade dress. I am not trying to actively deceive anyone into thinking they are buying an Apple product. So I'm pretty sure I'm not breaking any laws ).

[dr_derivative]

I've updated the OP with the kits we have finalised so far, let me know if there are any mistakes or any changes you want made.

I have been in contact with XDA and they have said they can't do 6u centre stem spacebars, which sucks for HHKB users. They also said they don't have 1u spacebar keys which a couple of ortho users requested.

[ideus]

I've updated the OP with the kits we have finalised so far, let me know if there are any mistakes or any changes you want made.

I have been in contact with XDA and they have said they can't do 6u centre stem spacebars, which sucks for HHKB users. They also said they don't have 1u spacebar keys which a couple of ortho users requested.

I really appreciate that the base kit now includes the one unit back slash pipe key, that makes a lot of sense. I wonder if the esc key in the icon set should be instead the Icon version. Hoping for a 6u off centered space bar.

[dr_derivative]

I really appreciate that the base kit now includes the one unit back slash pipe key, that makes a lot of sense. I wonder if the esc key in the icon set should be instead the Icon version. Hoping for a 6u off centered space bar.

6u off-center stem will be in the spacebar kit, it's just centre stem that XDA can't do. I should've made that more clear  .

I'm sticking with the text esc key for now since the icon mod AEKs have the esc key as text. I might add an icon one later if there's lots of demand but I want to stay true to the original too.

[ideus]

I really appreciate that the base kit now includes the one unit back slash pipe key, that makes a lot of sense. I wonder if the esc key in the icon set should be instead the Icon version. Hoping for a 6u off centered space bar.

6u off-center stem will be in the spacebar kit, it's just centre stem that XDA can't do. I should've made that more clear    .

I'm sticking with the text esc key for now since the icon mod AEKs have the esc key as text. I might add an icon one later if there's lots of demand but I want to stay true to the original too.

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Alright, I got it. Looking good so far.

[dr_derivative]

Nearly all the popular novelties from the original IC form are trademarked by Apple so we're looking for some new novelties to make a proper novelty kit. Happy mac, sad mac, bomb icon, Clarus the dogcow, etc. are all trademarked. The coloured Apple logo is also trademarked. Also, for anything rainbow coloured alignment of the different colours will be an issue for dye sublimation.

The only usable novelties we got from the IC is the power icon (◁) and a line drawing of the original mac. We really need more than two keys for the novelty kit. If we can't get enough novelties we'll have to go without a novelty kit altogether .

So I've added this Novelty Suggestion Form. Hopefully we'll have enough good ideas to make a novelty kit happen.

[dr_derivative]

I've added a couple more kit layouts I made over the last few days to the OP. Let me know if there's anything wrong with them.

For the novelty kit I only got a handful of suggestions. But we've had a bit of a brainstorming session and we've though of a few more to add.
So far we have:

• Drawing of the original mac
• Rectangular single button mouse (like the original mac)
• 3.5" floppy disk
• Power icon  (◁)
• Hello drawn in MS paint (Can't do it in Mac paint since I don't have a Mac )
• Steve Jobs' glasses (or something else Jobs-related)
• An Apple (maybe with two bites, maybe with none)
• Lowercase i
• An any key

If we add some forum novelties and maybe one or two more random things I think that's a pretty good novelty kit .

[macclack]

Also (and sorry if everyone hates these suggestions, just trying to throw out some ideas):
JOBS key
WOZ key
Reality Distortion key <---probably too wordy
One More Thing key

[ye_cole]

JOBS key
WOZ key
Reality Distortion key <---probably too wordy
One More Thing key

Yes to all of these please!

[dr_derivative]

Also (and sorry if everyone hates these suggestions, just trying to throw out some ideas):
JOBS key
WOZ key
Reality Distortion key <---probably too wordy
One More Thing key

Reality Distortion and One More Thing are both too long to fit on a key unless I make the font super small. I'm not sure how many people would understand the references either (I had to Google reality distortion).

I can add the Jobs and Woz keys, although I already have Jobs' glasses in the set. It feels a bit weird to have an icon for Jobs and text for Woz, and I can't think of a similar icon to do for Wozniak, so I might just remove the glasses and add both Jobs and Woz keys. Any thoughts?
 

[macclack]

Also (and sorry if everyone hates these suggestions, just trying to throw out some ideas):
JOBS key
WOZ key
Reality Distortion key <---probably too wordy
One More Thing key

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Reality Distortion and One More Thing are both too long to fit on a key unless I make the font super small. I'm not sure how many people would understand the references either (I had to Google reality distortion).

I can add the Jobs and Woz keys, although I already have Jobs' glasses in the set. It feels a bit weird to have an icon for Jobs and text for Woz, and I can't think of a similar icon to do for Wozniak, so I might just remove the glasses and add both Jobs and Woz keys. Any thoughts?

Was kinda thinking some of the longer ones would be on the Enter/Return key or Tab key kinda like Godspeed or Chocolatier did.

I like the idea of "One More Thing" being the Return/Enter novelty key.

[dr_derivative]

Was kinda thinking some of the longer ones would be on the Enter/Return key or Tab key kinda like Godspeed or Chocolatier did.

I like the idea of "One More Thing" being the Return/Enter novelty key.

I can do that actually. I usually never use novelties larger than 1u personally, but 'One more thing' would make a pretty good return.

Also, am I the only one who reads 'One more thing' in Uncle's voice from Jackie Chan Adventures?

[macclack]

Was kinda thinking some of the longer ones would be on the Enter/Return key or Tab key kinda like Godspeed or Chocolatier did.

I like the idea of "One More Thing" being the Return/Enter novelty key.

I can do that actually. I usually never use novelties larger than 1u personally, but 'One more thing' would make a pretty good return.

Also, am I the only one who reads 'One more thing' in Uncle's voice from Jackie Chan Adventures?

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Not anymore :)

[ppp]

oh lordy I need this. Following!

[DukeMugen]

Can we have these icons on the F-row please? I feel like this is very important for people whose intentions are to use this specifically for mac, well, atleast for me.

[dr_derivative]

Update:
In the last week we've matched the keys of an M0116 to a Pantone colour and added some more kit designs, there are some more details in the OP. The only kits that are currently left to do are the Accent kit and Novelties .

Can we have these icons on the F-row please? I feel like this is very important for people whose intentions are to use this specifically for mac, well, atleast for me.

I think the majority of people interested in this keyset aren't actually Mac users, but like the aesthetic. IMO adding those extra symbols spoils the clean look of the keys a little. Plus, even if there is a majority of Mac users, many people use programmable keyboards and will remap those functions elsewhere on the board (or at least the media controls, not sure how the other functions work in terms of keycodes).
 

[quaddepos]

Update:
In the last week we've matched the keys of an M0116 to a Pantone colour and added some more kit designs, there are some more details in the OP. The only kits that are currently left to do are the Accent kit and Novelties .

Can we have these icons on the F-row please? I feel like this is very important for people whose intentions are to use this specifically for mac, well, atleast for me.

I think the majority of people interested in this keyset aren't actually Mac users, but like the aesthetic. IMO adding those extra symbols spoils the clean look of the keys a little. Plus, even if there is a majority of Mac users, many people use programmable keyboards and will remap those functions elsewhere on the board (or at least the media controls, not sure how the other functions work in terms of keycodes).

I also agree with this. It wouldn't surprise me if those icons are copyrighted by apple as well.

[kuang2]

go ahead and take my money

[online]

I'm so interested in this set!! Can I suggest something?

Changing 'control' to 'ctrl' and 'function' to 'fn' in base icon modifier? To me, it'll look cleaner and more distinguishable from the text mod.
I think losing 'cmd' text on the cmd key could look better too.

I'm a bit concern about the small legend like 'alt', 'del', 'print screen' and etc will come out blurry and illegible due to the dye sub.

[dr_derivative]

Changing 'control' to 'ctrl' and 'function' to 'fn' in base icon modifier? To me, it'll look cleaner and more distinguishable from the text mod.

I've tried to size the text on each of the mods to suit the size of the key, so 1u ctrl keys do say 'ctrl' and 1u fn says 'func'. I think 'fn' looks too small on a key in this font. Regardless, I don't think anyone will really be able to agree on 'ctrl' vs 'control', so I'm leaving them as is for now. If there is a big consensus either way I will change it.

I think losing 'cmd' text on the cmd key could look better too.

The original AEK has an apple logo on the left and the loopy command symbol on the right. Of course we can't use the Apple logo and IMO it looks too bare without anything, so I replaced it with cmd. I can't think of anything better, but I'm not too sure about 'cmd' either ) .

I'm a bit concern about the small legend like 'alt', 'del', 'print screen' and etc will come out blurry and illegible due to the dye sub.

I asked XDA and they said:

We can make very narrow line sir, don't worry:)

[sleepybrett]

> I'm a bit concern about the small legend like 'alt', 'del', 'print screen' and etc will come out blurry and illegible due to the dye sub.

psssst... the original AEKII/ADB keyset is dyesub, seems fine.

[dr_derivative]

I'm a bit concern about the small legend like 'alt', 'del', 'print screen' and etc will come out blurry and illegible due to the dye sub.

psssst... the original AEKII/ADB keyset is dyesub, seems fine.

Dye sub quality depends very much on the manufacturer though, so it's not an unreasonable concern. Some keycaps will have much more bleeding and blurry edges than others.

XDA dyesubs seems to have very good quality printing though, based on the sets they've done so far.

[dr_derivative]

Update time:




Japanese Alphas and Novelty kits have been created.

The katakana have been moved to their standard positions, since a couple of them are in weird places on the AEK. This benefits anyone actually using these caps to input katakana, while it won't make much difference to those who just want cool sublegends.

The novelty kit shown is what we have so far. As always any feedback is appreciated .

We've also created a banner for XDA Oblique. So if you want to show your support you can add it to your signature .

Code: [Select]

[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93586.0][img width=384 height=100]https://i.imgur.com/JfySR26.png[/img][/url]

[elfick]

Changing 'control' to 'ctrl' and 'function' to 'fn' in base icon modifier? To me, it'll look cleaner and more distinguishable from the text mod.

I've tried to size the text on each of the mods to suit the size of the key, so 1u ctrl keys do say 'ctrl' and 1u fn says 'func'. I think 'fn' looks too small on a key in this font. Regardless, I don't think anyone will really be able to agree on 'ctrl' vs 'control', so I'm leaving them as is for now. If there is a big consensus either way I will change it.

Your rationale for having a text mod in the icon modifiers kit was to keep it as close as possible to the AEK...
"I want to keep it as similar as possible to the icon mods on the AEK, I think a ^ or ⎋ would look out of place given the theme of the keyset."

So wouldn't it make more sense to use ctrl rather than control?

[macclack]

Update time:

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Japanese Alphas and Novelty kits have been created.

The katakana have been moved to their standard positions, since a couple of them are in weird places on the AEK. This benefits anyone actually using these caps to input katakana, while it won't make much difference to those who just want cool sublegends.

The novelty kit shown is what we have so far. As always any feedback is appreciated .

We've also created a banner for XDA Oblique. So if you want to show your support you can add it to your signature .

Code: [Select]

[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93586.0][img width=384 height=100]https://i.imgur.com/JfySR26.png[/img][/url]

Looking great so far.

[nguyenhimself]

LOVE the katakana alpha set.

Re. the "One more thing" key, can we add a trailing off ellipsis like below?

I believe that's the correct... form

[dr_derivative]

Your rationale for having a text mod in the icon modifiers kit was to keep it as close as possible to the AEK...
"I want to keep it as similar as possible to the icon mods on the AEK, I think a ^ or ⎋ would look out of place given the theme of the keyset."

So wouldn't it make more sense to use ctrl rather than control?

Oddly enough, both ctrl and control were used on AEKs, depending on which version you look at. I can't link pictures now, I'm on mobile. The one I linked earlier in the thread has ctrl, but if search for pictures of AEKs the majority actually have control.

Re. the "One more thing" key, can we add a trailing off ellipsis like below?

I believe that's the correct... form

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Yeah, I'll change that later :thumb:

[nguyenhimself]

While I chuckled at the "Any" key, isn't that more of a Windows joke, due to the booting from BIOS and stuffs? Can't remember ever seeing that prompt in Mac.

[dr_derivative]

While I chuckled at the "Any" key, isn't that more of a Windows joke, due to the booting from BIOS and stuffs? Can't remember ever seeing that prompt in Mac.

I was actually debating with myself whether I should include that key. I left it in because I felt it was more of a Simpsons reference than a Windows reference.

That 'Press any key to continue...' prompt isn't very common in Windows either unless you do a lot of work with the command prompt/batch scripts. It comes from the 'pause' command, which outputs that message. Although a similar command doesn't exist for other operating systems, a program/script could still easily display a similar message and then wait for a keypress. However, I just realised doing some research in the last 5 minutes that classic MacOS didn't have any built in terminal at all, so it makes sense you would never see such a message.

Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions for a more Mac themed joke I'll replace it. But I want at least one funnyish novelty that will appeal to the masses, not just Mac enthusiasts ).

[vewy_nice]

What about the old bomb symbol?

[dr_derivative]

What about the old bomb symbol?

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I wanted to add a couple of classic Mac icons like this, but unfortunately they're all trademarked :(

[vewy_nice]

Of course...

Hm, I will try and think of more things later. Maybe I'll go boot up my OS9 machine after work.

I wonder if the "PowerPC" symbol is similarly still trademarked?


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/PowerPC_logo.svg/1280px-PowerPC_logo.svg.png

It's got the TM, but... Idk who knows?

[Traveler]

Oh boy, just now found out about this. I've been needing an excuse to try XDA. I'm down for this set. Should look nice on my Exent if/when I get my board.

[dr_derivative]

Of course...

Hm, I will try and think of more things later. Maybe I'll go boot up my OS9 machine after work.

I wonder if the "PowerPC" symbol is similarly still trademarked?

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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/PowerPC_logo.svg/1280px-PowerPC_logo.svg.png

It's got the TM, but... Idk who knows?

AFAIK PowerPC chips are still made, so it's probably still trademarked. Most last gen consoles (PS3, Xbox 360 and Wii/Wii U) used PowerPC CPUs, and I know they were (probably still are) used for lots of embedded computers.

[dr_derivative]

I know these aren't really Apple themed, but is there any interest in vim arrow keys?

[quaddepos]

I know these aren't really Apple themed, but is there any interest in vim arrow keys?

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 :eek: :thumb:

[ihalatch]

I know these aren't really Apple themed, but is there any interest in vim arrow keys?

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Yes, that'll be great.

[nguyenhimself]

I know these aren't really Apple themed, but is there any interest in vim arrow keys?

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As an occasional vim user myself, I find it weird that you guys feel the need for those arrow keys at all.

Also not Apple-related. In fact, of all things, emacs would be a better candidate, as macOS has always supported lots of emacs' navigational shortcuts.

[dr_derivative]

As an occasional vim user myself, I find it weird that you guys feel the need for those arrow keys at all.

Also not Apple-related. In fact, of all things, emacs would be a better candidate, as macOS has always supported lots of emacs' navigational shortcuts.

Personally, I never use them either. But the novelty kit is still kinda small so I thought why not add these keys for those who do want them

Emacs doesn't really have a couple specific keys I could easily add; and I definitely can't add every emacs shortcut.