Do you use more than one computer?
Can you switch on all of them, including laptops and work keyboards?
Is it important for you to be able to keep up your typing rate because of work or other uses while you learn Dvorak?
Do you game? Can you remap everything?
Wouldn't it be better to learn Colemak?
If you answered anything to any of the above, give it the old college try anyway and see what obstacles you hit :) .
@brimborion -- great questions. I think I can switch on all the computers that I use and I don't game, but why do you prefer Colemak to Dvorak?
@nubbinator -- why would you pick Colemak over Dvorak?
Almost all the dvorak studies I've seen are highly biased with major flaws.A honest question: What studies have you actually read?
Choral also creates some incredibly awkward shortcuts (ctrl+c for example) that decreases efficiency. Colemak and some other more modern niche layouts are less awkward.I believe mashby uses OS X. That system has built-in support for DSK with QWERTY shortcuts (https://support.apple.com/kb/PH6528?locale=en_US).
Additionally, most people tend to be slower with dvorak, though some do get faster. I'd rather not type slower with a layout that has no scientifically backed ergonomic superiority. Some of the other layouts like Colemak report minor ergonomic improvements and typically a return to the same speed....and the evidence is where? Isn't the reason for a lower speed exactly the same as the reason for low typing speeds in general? Because AFAIK most people revert to hunt'n'peck typing even after passing a touch typing course.
i use dvorak, i've used it for like 2 or 3 years
it's nice to type with but it's not worth spending ages learning
I switched to Dvorak when I was contemplating giving up programming as a career. It wasn't the only thing that helped, and I think switching to colemak or the Maltron layout would have helped at least as much.
It wasn't an easy transition for me, and I've pretty much lost my ability to type qwerty, but it was one of the best decisions of my life.
The best reason for switching is comfort, if you simply want to type faster, then take a look at text expansion software first.
@SonOfSonOfSpock -- The main reason that I'm considering it is the idea that Dvorak is more efficient over QWERTY. I don't have RSI issues, or anything, but I like the idea of efficiency. One of the reasons I like the HHKB and 60% layouts. Why wouldn't you choose Dvorak?
There really aren't many studies. When I was still in grad school and had access to all the big databases, I tried to find more studies and there were like one or two more, all of which sucked. All the "studies" you see out there being touted as good measures are amateur studies that use spurious measures that really don't give any kind of scientific credence to the claims.There are actually plenty of academic research papers on the topic to my big surprise. Most of them really focus on one or two layout properties though... that's where many of the claims about "no advantage to DSK" stem from. It's kinda pointless to conclude anything (esp. typing speed estimates) from a "study" that consists of several typists repeatedly pressing isolated *bigrams* on camera.
I chose DVORAK over Colemak due to Colemak not being built into major OS. I don't want to be in a position of looking like a goofus hunting and pecking when I need to use someone's PC.
Quite a few linux distros don't have colemak by default.I chose DVORAK over Colemak due to Colemak not being built into major OS. I don't want to be in a position of looking like a goofus hunting and pecking when I need to use someone's PC.
Only Mac doesn't come loaded with Colemak; can be installed easily.
Only Mac doesn't come loaded with Colemak; can be installed easily.I see Colemak as an option on my Mac (OS X 10.9), and I’m sure I never explicitly added it.
@jacobolus -- I did a search, but I didn't see much. Perhaps my search-foo is a bit lacking, but most of the search results were about people asking for GB's to include a Dvorak kit. :roll eyes:Well, I’m not going to read carefully through, but here are 60 threads that came up in my searching, I think at least 10–20 of them should be pretty relevant:
[...] Colemak and some other more modern niche layouts are less awkward. From what I've seen, they also tend to have better evidence (but still a dearth of proper scientific study) to back them.Which “better evidence” are you referring to?
I chose DVORAK over Colemak due to Colemak not being built into major OS. I don't want to be in a position of looking like a goofus hunting and pecking when I need to use someone's PC.
There really aren't many studies. When I was still in grad school and had access to all the big databases, I tried to find more studies and there were like one or two more, all of which sucked. All the "studies" you see out there being touted as good measures are amateur studies that use spurious measures that really don't give any kind of scientific credence to the claims.There are actually plenty of academic research papers on the topic to my big surprise. Most of them really focus on one or two layout properties though... that's where many of the claims about "no advantage to DSK" stem from. It's kinda pointless to conclude anything (esp. typing speed estimates) from a "study" that consists of several typists repeatedly pressing isolated *bigrams* on camera.
Alright, so far I've been talking generalities and "most efficient", etc. But for some practical advice, if you're going to use a standard physical layout board and you simply want a little more typing comfort / efficiency and you're willing to put the time in (and you want it to be a "standard" alternative layout), I'd suggest rather learning Dvorak than Colemak for a number of reasons:
1. It's different enough from QWERTY that you're not going to interfere as much with your existing QWERTY muscle memory and skills.
2. Alternation is more conducive to more comfortable typing than rolls (this an opinion, but a well-grounded one). It's also faster, but there are some caveats here (see my comments below).
3. Colemak overloads the index fingers.
4. It's available on every OS with very little effort needed to "install" it. Colemak is getting better, but still not as widely available.
In terms of keycaps, most GB's that include support for an alternative layout will include both Dvorak and Colemak caps, so it's not really a factor, IMHO.
I suspect some will challenge number 2, so here is a little supporting information: Fingers on the same hand have shared tendons and muscles, which makes pressing successive keys with the same hand require more effort and concentration (flex, release, flex) and thus less speed than if you were to be alternating all the presses. You could argue that the "roll" can be produced by a rotation of the wrist (pronation / supination motion) without much finger movement required, however you still need to position the individual fingers to "set up" the roll which requires more concentration and as much finger movement as pressing alternating keys.
The only advantage to "rolls" that I can think of are that it matches the way your mind works in breaking words into key groups to be pressed which then translate into finger movement "sets", but these sets tend to start off as single keys when learning and progress to larger and larger groups as you become more proficient and used to typing specific words, so the Colemak rolls will only match certain stages of typing proficiency. It's still more fatiguing overall.
P.S. - if you use a Linux / Unix terminal often, Dvorak can be a pain.. "L" and "S" are both on the right hand pinkie...
MoreAlright, so far I've been talking generalities and "most efficient", etc. But for some practical advice, if you're going to use a standard physical layout board and you simply want a little more typing comfort / efficiency and you're willing to put the time in (and you want it to be a "standard" alternative layout), I'd suggest rather learning Dvorak than Colemak for a number of reasons:
1. It's different enough from QWERTY that you're not going to interfere as much with your existing QWERTY muscle memory and skills.
2. Alternation is more conducive to more comfortable typing than rolls (this an opinion, but a well-grounded one). It's also faster, but there are some caveats here (see my comments below).
3. Colemak overloads the index fingers.
4. It's available on every OS with very little effort needed to "install" it. Colemak is getting better, but still not as widely available.
In terms of keycaps, most GB's that include support for an alternative layout will include both Dvorak and Colemak caps, so it's not really a factor, IMHO.
I suspect some will challenge number 2, so here is a little supporting information: Fingers on the same hand have shared tendons and muscles, which makes pressing successive keys with the same hand require more effort and concentration (flex, release, flex) and thus less speed than if you were to be alternating all the presses. You could argue that the "roll" can be produced by a rotation of the wrist (pronation / supination motion) without much finger movement required, however you still need to position the individual fingers to "set up" the roll which requires more concentration and as much finger movement as pressing alternating keys.
The only advantage to "rolls" that I can think of are that it matches the way your mind works in breaking words into key groups to be pressed which then translate into finger movement "sets", but these sets tend to start off as single keys when learning and progress to larger and larger groups as you become more proficient and used to typing specific words, so the Colemak rolls will only match certain stages of typing proficiency. It's still more fatiguing overall.
I type Colemak.
Your post left too many things out in favor of Dvorak. The left index finger, right ring & pinkies are overloaded for Dvorak. I, R, L, very common letters, requires the fingers to stretch often.
Your number three is misleading and false. If anything, it's qwerty that works the index fingers due to top middle row usage. Between Dv/Col, its Dv that suffers due to the letter i.
Strictly for English. One of Colemak's greatest strength is the distance accumulated through typing; it's far less than many layouts.
However it comes down to personal preference; as each hand/fingers can be different. Finger rolls & a very balanced finger load versus finger alternation and a unique layout.
Dvorak was my first layout beyond qwerty; the positions of the three letters were annoying and pushed me to switch.
I can type for hours without fatigue. Nothing's perfect of course and the only thing I find annoying about Colemak is typing the word 'you'.
Want to be faster and efficient? Learn Plover.
Quite a few linux distros don't have colemak by default.
Strictly for English. One of Colemak's greatest strength is the distance accumulated through typing; it's far less than many layouts.True. At the same time, it scores worse on other variables. Keyboard optimization is a matter of compromises.....
Dvorak can be "improved" by switching the positions of U and I, but L and R are difficult to reposition without damaging the layout more than you fix it.Optimizing by hand is extremely hard. You should use a computer to calculate that !
[b]Dvorak[/b] (optimized for English)
,.py fgcrl'
aoeiu dhtns;
?qjkx bmwvz
DvorMax (optimized for English)
kyu." zlmdpv
rieao hnstcw
x*?,/ jqfgb
Stock ADNW ("hieao") (optimized for German/English)
ku"./ vgcljf
hieao dtrnsx
y?,qb pwmzß
Dutch ADNW ("rieao") (optimized for Dutch/English). This is the layout I use
y.u," wclhqz
rieao gdtnsk
/x?;j vpmbf
That might be true for Ubuntu and such, it has been a long time since I used it. However the most recent distro I tried that didn't have Colemak was Funtoo.Quite a few linux distros don't have colemak by default.
Layouts are in the xkeyboard config. The people at Freedesktop.org decide which keyboard layouts are in the standard X11 files. Of course users are free to change this, to add layouts, modify them and so on. So you will find qwerty, azery, qwertz, dvorak, colemak and *lots* of other layouts, on your standard Linux, Unix or BSD system. The less known ADNW layout has been in it since May 2014. Colemak has been in xkeyboard for a long time.
So why don't you see all these layouts in the menus of your latest Ubuntu or Fedora? This is because individual desktop environments (Gnome, Mate, KDE, Cinnamon, OpenBox and so on) and/or distributions (Ubuntu, Mint, openSuse, Fedora etc.) decide which layout-options they put in their menus. So a specific layout may not be in the menu, but it will be in your xkeyboard files. If the layout you want is called exoticlayout5 you just open a terminal and type set xkbmap exoticlayout5
Well, I’m not going to read carefully through, but here are 60 threads that came up in my searching, I think at least 10–20 of them should be pretty relevant:
I saw some of those, but nothing definitive enough not to warrant starting a new thread. However, your search was much more exhaustive than what I found. :thumb:I didn’t mean you shouldn’t start a new thread. Only that you might learn something useful by reading old threads. :-)
@vibex - I've been eying funtoo & gentoo for a while now....I've hopped lots (30 + ? ) of distros, some long term loves were crunchbang, mint and the last couple of years arch (+ openbox/goomwwm//herbstluft). Do you like funtoo, is compiling everything worth the hassle? Can you find everything in the repos? is the masked stuff usable? I like my system to be reasonable up to date.Everything important is in the repo, plus a ton of other stuff. I wouldn't say everything though. I remember not being able to find things like bar.
(Not that arch is without faults. The AUR build files vary in quality, sometimes you haveto repair them, packages get abandonned, etc etc ).
Thanks.
Sorry for the linux off topic talk, back to Dvorak !! ;D
Just sayin' - as a Canadian - that Canadian-English and US-English keyboard layouts are not equal. Various Frenchy characters/accents annoyingly appear from time to time when you inadvertently press certain key sequences. And the software will still tend to emphasize American counterparts in spelling and grammar.Show Image(http://l.mashby.com/1ayGP+)
I think people who defend QWERTY are like climate change deniers; they don't want anyone telling them anything that makes them question their beliefs.
Dvorak Cons: Look at 'F'. Like what the **** is it doing there? Dvorak is a good step in the right direction, but the design is old as ****. While it did get a lot right, there is a lot of room for optimization.
I came across this comic today and had to share: http://www.pvponline.com/comic/2015/03/19/keystroke
Regarding Plover, it's great for dictation, but like all dictation techniques (which are designed for rapidly jotting down speech concepts), it requires parsing afterwards to turn it into readable text and it's not very useful for tasks like programming.I'm not sure what you mean by parsing afterwards. Computers do that job in real time. That is actually the whole point of Plover and similar software. And if you make a mistake, just go back and correct it like you would in a normal keyboard. Here a demo of text editing with Vim and Plover.
If you want the best general purpose typing efficiency, a well designed ergo board (with thumb keys) and properly analysed and tested character layout is about the best you can do.Well, there is also Proword shorthand method, to type less w/o a huge up front learning curve.
Some of the newer layouts make it easier for a qwerty typist to switch easier. Also the right pinky in dvorak gets a lot of use.Gotta give that right pinky more of a workout, lol. I could find no right-hand-only analogue for typing the horrible word "stewardesses".
I've been typing Dvorak for 15 years now, I first started learning because of RSI issues. I've never found a speed improvement. My typing speed with qwerty was ~45wpm, and after a couple months of Dvorak I plateaued at ~45wpm. Now I'm up to around 60wpm, but I think that's mostly a factor of how fast I can transfer instructions from my brain to my fingers, not how fast I am able to type. To this day I can type both Dvorak and qwerty at about the same speed (although with fewer errors on Dvorak.)
Comfort is another story. A couple hours of qwerty and my wrists are feeling it. I can type all day long with Dvorak.
Colemak is a better alternative than Dvorak.No, it isn't, unless additional criteria are specified.
Colemak keep 10 same keys (QWAHZXCVBM )with Qwerty, while Dvorak has only 2 same keys (AH). That means you can learn Colemak faster.That is pure speculation.
ZXCV the same means your habit of copy paste cut remains unchanged.You are ignoring Dvorak-QWERTY layouts (https://code.google.com/p/dvorak-qwerty/). One even comes out of the box with OS X that OP uses. Unlike Colemak, Dvorak-QWERTY doesn't move S in shortcuts.
I don't understand this talk about right pinky issues... I think if you used your right pinky properly in QWERTY, you'll be fine. Regardless of which keyboard layout you use, being able to use all 10 fingers adeptly is going to increase your productivity.
[..]
Dvorak... overloads the right pinkie for certain combinations, such as "ls -ls".
I really like Colemak too, especially the rolls. I think the main thing is too get away from qwerty. Maybe you could argue which is better between Colemak and Dvorak, but to me the difference isn't that great. It becomes preference at that point imo.
That being said, I do believe dvorak is the better layout. A scientifically designed effort to make the most frequently-used letters and letter sequences more easy to reach faster, and with minimal effort. As opposed to qwerty, which was essentially the exact opposite - a deliberate misarrangement of keys designed to slow typing down on ancient typewriters so that their mechanical levers wouldn't jam and tangle up as often.Please stop with this...
In any event, note that every alternative layout is designed based on some set of personal opinions/models about what constitutes a good layout. None of them as far as I can tell are backed by good empirical evidence about the hand motions involved in typing letter combinations.This.
There's nothing really scientific in those layouts, you just choose a metric, and try to optimize the keyboard for that metric, but it's difficult to say which metric is the best.Sooo, what about experimental time/motion studies? Corpus analysis? Error analysis? Learning methodology? (Is psychology a science?)
Sooo, what about experimental time/motion studies? Corpus analysis? Error analysis? Learning methodology? (Is psychology a science?)I don't think those studies say that a layout is definitively "better" than another... At least honest ones.
There's nothing really scientific in those layouts, you just choose a metric, and try to optimize the keyboard for that metric, but it's difficult to say which metric is the best.Scientific method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method)
I recommend at least reading the original Dvorak's or Malt's work. The methodology or might be questionable here and there, but I don't see, how "there's nothing really scientific".I think you misunderstand me, most probably because I've worded badly my thoughts (and I really shouldn't have said there's nothing really scientific in the layouts, my bad, and apologies for this)
The issue would be to prove that the chosen metrics are better than others.The metrics are based on experiments, such as the time/motion studies. They're discussed in the original patents/papers/book.
I know, I've read a lot of them (research papers, mostly), even used them to design my own layout, and I still don't think those measurements prove you'll feel less pain or type faster after years of training, especially when the differences for good keyboard are usually tiny (and may change if you change a bit the corpus).QuoteThe issue would be to prove that the chosen metrics are better than others.The metrics are based on experiments, such as the time/motion studies. They're discussed in the original patents/papers/book.
I know, I've read a lot of them (research papers, mostly), even used them to design my own layout, and I still don't think those measurements prove you'll feel less pain or type faster after years of training, especially when the differences for good keyboard are usually tiny (and may change if you change a bit the corpus).QuoteThe issue would be to prove that the chosen metrics are better than others.The metrics are based on experiments, such as the time/motion studies. They're discussed in the original patents/papers/book.
The only reason why I went with DVORAK over Colemak is that Colemak isn't standard on some OS's yet. At my current job I can install it on my work laptop if I really wanted to, but I know if I change jobs, they might keep their machines more locked down and I 'd be screwed.
Also, if I had to use a keyboard for an interview or certification test, etc. it's unlikely they'd let me install anything new things on their system. After using DVORAK for 6 months or so, I don't have any regrets. I'm fine playing it safe even though learning Colemak would have been easier, I just hit 80 WPM yesterday so I seem to be doing fine.
The only reason why I went with DVORAK over Colemak is that Colemak isn't standard on some OS's yet. At my current job I can install it on my work laptop if I really wanted to, but I know if I change jobs, they might keep their machines more locked down and I 'd be screwed.
Also, if I had to use a keyboard for an interview or certification test, etc. it's unlikely they'd let me install anything new things on their system. After using DVORAK for 6 months or so, I don't have any regrets. I'm fine playing it safe even though learning Colemak would have been easier, I just hit 80 WPM yesterday so I seem to be doing fine.
You could also just buy a reprogrammable board and program the layout into it. Will work on any PC you plug it into. IMHO, software / OS support for a layout is not a good reason to choose one over another. I still prefer Dvorak over Colemak, though, for various reasons.
The only reason why I went with DVORAK over Colemak is that Colemak isn't standard on some OS's yet. At my current job I can install it on my work laptop if I really wanted to, but I know if I change jobs, they might keep their machines more locked down and I 'd be screwed.
Also, if I had to use a keyboard for an interview or certification test, etc. it's unlikely they'd let me install anything new things on their system. After using DVORAK for 6 months or so, I don't have any regrets. I'm fine playing it safe even though learning Colemak would have been easier, I just hit 80 WPM yesterday so I seem to be doing fine.
You could also just buy a reprogrammable board and program the layout into it. Will work on any PC you plug it into. IMHO, software / OS support for a layout is not a good reason to choose one over another. I still prefer Dvorak over Colemak, though, for various reasons.
That still doesn't address my second example though, unless you want to carry your programmable keyboard with you to every interview or any place you might need to use a keyboard. For example, I went home to visit my parents last weekend and didn't need to bring a keyboard or install anything on their system for the brief time I used their PC (<10 minutes). I see that if I was really dedicated to Colemak I could find ways to use it, but I don't see any sizable advantage over DVORAK that makes up for ease of use.
I wouldn't dare to say that mathematics are not scientific. But you can't prove that they're right, since they're based on axioms (Euclid's for example, Peano's works, etc.). You can prove the self-coherence, or that they are true when admitting the axioms.Not wanting (too much) to troll off-topic, but it's so hard to resist this one ... there is a little something called Godel's Incompleteness Theorem which sort of applies to your above statement ...
...it's not very useful for tasks like programming....Mirabai advises it even for programming: http://plover.stenoknight.com/2010/04/writing-and-coding-with-steno.html
...
1. Qwerty 125 wpmwhat layout do you use now?
2. Dvorak 60 wpm
3. Workman 45 wpm
4. Colemak 100 wpm
I prefer finger rolls over alternations. Dvorak used too much of my right pinky. Colemak uses my right hand a little too much. I like capslock as my backspace on Colemak. No layout is worth changing unless your wrists hurts from typing; as mine did with qwerty and now there's no more pain. Expect a moment of not being able to type at all; kinetic finger memory collision.
I chose DVORAK over Colemak due to Colemak not being built into major OS. I don't want to be in a position of looking like a goofus hunting and pecking when I need to use someone's PC.
Only Mac doesn't come loaded with Colemak; can be installed easily.
1. Qwerty 125 wpmwhat layout do you use now?
2. Dvorak 60 wpm
3. Workman 45 wpm
4. Colemak 100 wpm
I prefer finger rolls over alternations. Dvorak used too much of my right pinky. Colemak uses my right hand a little too much. I like capslock as my backspace on Colemak. No layout is worth changing unless your wrists hurts from typing; as mine did with qwerty and now there's no more pain. Expect a moment of not being able to type at all; kinetic finger memory collision.
Can't even imagine switching from QWERTY, but it does kind of suck that we've inherited this old school layout that was created only from a functional point of a type writer
Can't even imagine switching from QWERTY, but it does kind of suck that we've inherited this old school layout that was created only from a functional point of a type writer
That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(
You are gonna make her an outcast for any computing related experience, do you see her carrying her own board along with her lap top? do you see her unable to use any regular keyboard?Can't even imagine switching from QWERTY, but it does kind of suck that we've inherited this old school layout that was created only from a functional point of a type writer
That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(
You are gonna make her an outcast for any computing related experience, do you see her carrying her own board along with her lap top? do you see her unable to use any regular keyboard?Can't even imagine switching from QWERTY, but it does kind of suck that we've inherited this old school layout that was created only from a functional point of a type writer
That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(
Yeah that's the problem, QWERTY is so deeply embedded that it can't just be taken out overnight. Kind of relates to a lot of things in the world, maintaining legacy compatibility but at the same time phasing it out eventually.
LOL at outcast. DSK has been standardized by ANSI. It's about as hard to switch to it for typing, as in case of any other national standard. Do you actually think any kid, that uses a non-English layout in the US, or US QWERTY outside the US, is an outcast?Can't even imagine switching from QWERTY, but it does kind of suck that we've inherited this old school layout that was created only from a functional point of a type writer
That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(
You are gonna make her an outcast for any computing related experience, do you see her carrying her own board along with her lap top? do you see her unable to use any regular keyboard?
LOL at outcast. DSK has been standardized by ANSI. It's about as hard to switch to it for typing, as in case of any other national standard. Do you actually think any kid, that uses a non-English layout in the US, or US QWERTY outside the US, is an outcast?Can't even imagine switching from QWERTY, but it does kind of suck that we've inherited this old school layout that was created only from a functional point of a type writer
That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(
You are gonna make her an outcast for any computing related experience, do you see her carrying her own board along with her lap top? do you see her unable to use any regular keyboard?
LOL at outcast. DSK has been standardized by ANSI. It's about as hard to switch to it for typing, as in case of any other national standard. Do you actually think any kid, that uses a non-English layout in the US, or US QWERTY outside the US, is an outcast?Can't even imagine switching from QWERTY, but it does kind of suck that we've inherited this old school layout that was created only from a functional point of a type writer
That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(
You are gonna make her an outcast for any computing related experience, do you see her carrying her own board along with her lap top? do you see her unable to use any regular keyboard?
http://www.ryanheise.com/colemak/Great ! This makes me happy.
http://www.ryanheise.com/colemak/He typed in an alternate layout for the entire day?! Good god that's dedication!
I used Dvorak (and to an extent Colemak) back in college, and while Colemak was easier to learn, Dvorak had more advantages for my typing style and needs. I used it exclusively the last 2 years of college and really, really loved it.
The problem came when i took an IT job that required me to bounce around to different machines, or remote login, etc, and then i got all confused and looked rather incompetent. Sadly at the time I didn't really look into keyboards that could actually output Dvorak, as I was simply changed the input settings on my computer when I was learning it and on my main work computer.
I used Dvorak (and to an extent Colemak) back in college, and while Colemak was easier to learn, Dvorak had more advantages for my typing style and needs. I used it exclusively the last 2 years of college and really, really loved it.
The problem came when i took an IT job that required me to bounce around to different machines, or remote login, etc, and then i got all confused and looked rather incompetent. Sadly at the time I didn't really look into keyboards that could actually output Dvorak, as I was simply changed the input settings on my computer when I was learning it and on my main work computer.
You could use the Portable Keyboard Layout. Just stick a flash drive in the computer and the keyboard turns to Colemak/Dvorak/what ever without installing anything. If you need to switch back just click the icon on the toolbar or make a hotkey for switching.
http://pkl.sourceforge.net/
I am wainting for person that will report more then 100WPM in Colemak or Dvorak on this forum.
It may be easy to enable Dvorak, but that also assumes you CAN enable it. If they have the system locked down or if it's a shared computer you may get in trouble ....
That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(
Unless some mighty force push the world into a different reality, I do not see any easy way to replace qwerty as the main keyboard standard for general computing.
LOL at outcast. DSK has been standardized by ANSI. It's about as hard to switch to it for typing, as in case of any other national standard. Do you actually think any kid, that uses a non-English layout in the US, or US QWERTY outside the US, is an outcast?Can't even imagine switching from QWERTY, but it does kind of suck that we've inherited this old school layout that was created only from a functional point of a type writer
That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(
You are gonna make her an outcast for any computing related experience, do you see her carrying her own board along with her lap top? do you see her unable to use any regular keyboard?