The Living Soldering Thread

[mkawa]

litster has one of the Aoyue stations. iirc he says the only thing he really likes about it is the fume extractor on the iron.

the cheap all-in-one stations are definitely "get what you pay for", and the bigger problem with "all-in-one" is that they may very well be devoting too much of a meager budget to something you just don't do very often. how often are you going to desolder soic packages? do you really need hot tweezers at all? how often are you going to do smt reflow? do you really need hot air at all? etc.

over the years i've definitely found that accuracy, reliability and usability are #1 in tooling, especially high power precision tooling like soldering tools. even when you're careful and you know what you're doing it's still not that hard to burn things when you have a bunch of power flowing into a heater in your hand.

[mkawa]

folks with 888ds, i just got mine and i noticed that they made the the worst UI choice ever in that CALIBRATING the temperature and SETTING the temperature are almost exactly the same procedure, except that one of them requires pressing the enter button for ONE second (temp set) and the other for TWO seconds (calibration)

FACEPALM

you can tell which mode you're in by the temp display. if it has two dots at the bottom, you're setting the calibration, not the temperature. if it doesn't have two dots, you're setting the temperature. note that there is no "reset to factory" if you do mistakenly recalibrate. it may be possible to wipe the nvram or whatever it keeps the offset in, but i haven't gotten to that part of the manual yet.

my advice: search for amico thermometer on amazon and get a very cheap type K thermometer (25$) in case you need to recalibrate the regulator after mistakenly calibrating it instead of changing the regulator temperature. make sure the type K probe and thermometer you buy goes up to at least 250 deg C.

[Internetlad]

folks with 888ds, i just got mine and i noticed that they made the the worst UI choice ever in that CALIBRATING the temperature and SETTING the temperature are almost exactly the same procedure, except that one of them requires pressing the enter button for ONE second (temp set) and the other for TWO seconds (calibration)

FACEPALM

makes me feel a bit better about going for the analog dial weller now.

[Rayne]

folks with 888ds, i just got mine and i noticed that they made the the worst UI choice ever in that CALIBRATING the temperature and SETTING the temperature are almost exactly the same procedure, except that one of them requires pressing the enter button for ONE second (temp set) and the other for TWO seconds (calibration)

FACEPALM

makes me feel a bit better about going for the analog dial weller now.

yeah, i was almost 100% going to get an 888D, now im kinda second guessing that decision.

[mkawa]

the care and feeding of the 888d is definitely a bit higher than the analog meters. they cut some corners to get the insanely accurate regulator into the budget station. the accuracy on this thing is higher than the industrial-strength 951 station (which i assume they plan on updating at some point). the flip side to this accuracy is that it's been designed for people who care about accuracy and have the tooling (eg, a tip thermometer) to calibrate.

[The_Beast]

folks with 888ds, i just got mine and i noticed that they made the the worst UI choice ever in that CALIBRATING the temperature and SETTING the temperature are almost exactly the same procedure, except that one of them requires pressing the enter button for ONE second (temp set) and the other for TWO seconds (calibration)

FACEPALM

you can tell which mode you're in by the temp display. if it has two dots at the bottom, you're setting the calibration, not the temperature. if it doesn't have two dots, you're setting the temperature. note that there is no "reset to factory" if you do mistakenly recalibrate. it may be possible to wipe the nvram or whatever it keeps the offset in, but i haven't gotten to that part of the manual yet.

my advice: search for amico thermometer on amazon and get a very cheap type K thermometer (25$) in case you need to recalibrate the regulator after mistakenly calibrating it instead of changing the regulator temperature. make sure the type K probe and thermometer you buy goes up to at least 250 deg C.

This really sucks. I don't remember if I ever saw two blinking periods or not. Could you maybe use a kitchen meat thermometer to calibrate?

[mkawa]

anything that can read up to 200C and is accurate to within 2C there it is about as accurate as the regulator, so you're good. honestly, the factory calibration probably isn't all that accurate as it is. a cheap IR thermometer placed really close to the tip will probably work fine to get it back within the ballpark (and about as accurate as the dial would have been).

[The_Beast]

anything that can read up to 200C and is accurate to within 2C there it is about as accurate as the regulator, so you're good. honestly, the factory calibration probably isn't all that accurate as it is. a cheap IR thermometer placed really close to the tip will probably work fine to get it back within the ballpark (and about as accurate as the dial would have been).

Oh man, I forgot that my buddy has a IR thermometer, I'll borrow that and check to make sure I didn't mess up my calibration.

[mkawa]

also remember that anything that actually measures tip temperature is going to be more accurate than the factory calibration or wherever the regular has wandered since it left the factory. ideally you want a contact probe because the built up oxidization and tin or lack thereof can wildly change the temperature at the joint. but really, just remember that you're always guessing with materials and thermo (heisenberg or something)

[eRadicatedZomBiE]

also remember that anything that actually measures tip temperature is going to be more accurate than the factory calibration or wherever the regular has wandered since it left the factory. ideally you want a contact probe because the built up oxidization and tin or lack thereof can wildly change the temperature at the joint. but really, just remember that you're always guessing with materials and thermo (heisenberg or something)

Did you say Heisenberg?

[WhiteFireDragon]

Oh man, I forgot that my buddy has a IR thermometer, I'll borrow that and check to make sure I didn't mess up my calibration.

I don't think IR gun will be food for measuring tip temps. The readout is an average temp over a certain area, and the area it measures depends the distance away from the object. The tip is too small to point an IR gun at it.

[The_Beast]

Oh man, I forgot that my buddy has a IR thermometer, I'll borrow that and check to make sure I didn't mess up my calibration.

I don't think IR gun will be food for measuring tip temps. The readout is an average temp over a certain area, and the area it measures depends the distance away from the object. The tip is too small to point an IR gun at it.

Even with a large knife style tip and the IR gun held close to the tip?

[WhiteFireDragon]

How large is the knife tip? I wouldn't imagine any soldering tip is large enough to measure with IR guns. These are more for measuring an area, not a single point, even though the gun has an aiming laser that shoots at a single point. You can try though, but I wouldn't trust accuracy doing this way because you'll pick up temps from the surrounding area as well.

[The_Beast]

How large is the knife tip? I wouldn't imagine any soldering tip is large enough to measure with IR guns. These are more for measuring an area, not a single point, even though the gun has an aiming laser that shoots at a single point. You can try though, but I wouldn't trust accuracy doing this way because you'll pick up temps from the surrounding area as well.

It's this tip

[mkawa]

the temp the regulator uses isn't exactly in the tip either. (or more importantly, on the surface of the tip).

[The_Beast]

Ok, what if you have 63/37 solder, could you ramp up the temperature until the solder melts and calibrate the station to 361F?

[mkawa]

sure. i mean the point of the point of the last N posts was that ultimately you're just twiddling some knob until you can solder stuff.

[Internetlad]

Did you say Heisenberg?

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Stay out of my project room.

[Rayne]

Ok, so I have some soldering experience, I'v been doing little projects here and there for some time. The only solder iron iv used is a cheap $10 radio shack one that i bought like 4 or 5 years ago. I want to upgrade and get one much better than what i have. I was looking into getting the Hakko FX888D, I dont want to spend any more than that. However, the posts above are kind of confusing me. Now this may be a stupid question, but what is the deal with calibrating the temperature? How exactly do you do this and why? I kinda makes me scared to buy a new solder machine because i feel like i wont know how to use it :x

again, sorry if this is a dumb question, i feel like such a noob

[Internetlad]

I assume it comes factory calibrated but you can recalibrate it by hand using the method listed above.


Beside that any tool worth it's salt should come with (or at least have available) a fairly extensive manual. I suspect most of them are available online now because it saves paper and/or is cheaper to produce

[Rayne]

oooh ok i get it now. i was thinking calibration was something that need to be done every time you use the machine... this all makes sense now... i feel so dumb lol

[mkawa]

all the hakko documentation is available online. you have to register for it, which is weird, but yah, it's up there. docs.hakko.com or something.

[kaiserreich]

Just received my 888d 220v from taobao. For $75 before shipping, pretty good deal indeed.
The innards looks as real as the teardown pictures that I can find.

Pictures to follow.

Made in a factory 30km from where I stay.
Bought from Shanghai and still save a ton of money.
Globailization at its best.

[mkawa]

hah! hilarious. also remember that it was designed in japan

economic geography at its finest.

[Internetlad]

reminds of me a bit of how rendering and processing plants will buy horse meat from americans for 50 cents a pound and sell it where horsemeat is a delicacy for 15 dollars a pound.

[mkawa]

contrary to popular belief, paul krugman did some really good work in this prior to globalization becoming a buzzword, and deserves the nobel as much as anyone else with a nobel -- it wasn't just political..

[kaiserreich]

Here is the teardown of the FX888D from Taobao
Comparison to a FX888D from other sources
http://runawaybrainz.blogspot.com/2013/03/hakko-fx-888d-solder-station-hi-res.html

More

[bpiphany]

contrary to popular belief, paul krugman did some really good work in this prior to globalization becoming a buzzword, and deserves the nobel as much as anyone else with a nobel -- it wasn't just political..

Except there is no Nobel Prize in economics. I know nothing about economics though...

[mkawa]

Here is the teardown of the FX888D from Taobao
Comparison to a FX888D from other sources
http://runawaybrainz.blogspot.com/2013/03/hakko-fx-888d-solder-station-hi-res.html

More

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looks unsurprisingly like the same unit. good to know there's a cheaper source IN asia

[mkawa]

DUDES! GREAT NEWS!

I've made a huge mistake. the process for TEMPERATURE CHANGE is to hold the ENTER button for 1 second.

The process for TEMPERATURE CALIBRATION is to hold the UP button for 2 seconds. phew!!!

ok, now the bad news. i tossed an older tip on my iron and then took an extremely accurate thermistor and stuck it on the tinned and brass-brushed tip. it was 20 degrees off the regulator thermistor. i then calibrated and ta-da! melted solder. this is cool for me because i have an extremely accurate contact thermometer that is rated up to 400C, but may not work for you if you plan on buying the 888d and then blindly trusting the number on the front.

[The_Beast]

Just got done soldering my a.87. All the SMD stuff that came in the kit and all the SMD resistors. Big thanks to everyone in the thread. All I need to do is solder on the switches, diodes and LEDs, but I need a plate and a case to make first!

[WhiteFireDragon]

The white A87 ps2avr? You might want to try and program it first before you install the plate in case any of the components don't work or needs reflow. You won't be able to take them off once the plate is on. I'm stuck at the programming phase before I can put on the plate.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44504.0


Btw, when you said SMD resistors, I hope those are diodes instead, which is what the switches need. Unless you mean resistors for a backlit keyboard.

[The_Beast]

The white A87 ps2avr? You might want to try and program it first before you install the plate in case any of the components don't work or needs reflow. You won't be able to take them off once the plate is on. I'm stuck at the programming phase before I can put on the plate.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44504.0


Btw, when you said SMD resistors, I hope those are diodes instead, which is what the switches need. Unless you mean resistors for a backlit keyboard.

Yea, it's going to be a while for the white A87 ps2avr since I want to get my phantom completed first.


No, I did the SMD resistors tonight since I already have the LEDs. I didn't feel like doing the through hole diodes tonight so I'll probably do those tomorrow

[kaiserreich]

DUDES! GREAT NEWS!

I've made a huge mistake. the process for TEMPERATURE CHANGE is to hold the ENTER button for 1 second.

The process for TEMPERATURE CALIBRATION is to hold the UP button for 2 seconds. phew!!!

ok, now the bad news. i tossed an older tip on my iron and then took an extremely accurate thermistor and stuck it on the tinned and brass-brushed tip. it was 20 degrees off the regulator thermistor. i then calibrated and ta-da! melted solder. this is cool for me because i have an extremely accurate contact thermometer that is rated up to 400C, but may not work for you if you plan on buying the 888d and then blindly trusting the number on the front.

How do you get the Presets? P1, P2, P3 etc?
I can change the temps but getting into the preset mode is pretty damn hard.

It's very interesting how Hakko can fit so many functions into the "UP" "Enter" and on/off switch combination.

[mkawa]

sign up for doc.hakko.com. the full manual is there (why? i have no idea)

to get to the parameter settings you have to turn the iron on with the enter key held down until it flashes "01" (which is the C or F parameter)

[i3oilermaker]

I have a Weller ST1 tip (recommended for switch/diode soldering) new that is of no use to me.

If anyone wants it all I ask is for shipping.  First to PM me gets it.

[Internetlad]

So I can't seem to find a proper manual for my Weller WES51 other than the 4 pages of toilet paper that comes in the box. Is that seriously it, or does somebody know better?

[SpAmRaY]

So I can't seem to find a proper manual for my Weller WES51 other than the 4 pages of toilet paper that comes in the box. Is that seriously it, or does somebody know better?

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/weller/pdf/wes51.pdf

[Internetlad]

Thanks. Looked and couldn't find it. Ended up on the page for the WES50.

[daerid]

Looks like I'm getting a FX888D as a father's day gift to myself and gonna finally be able to put my 'Dox together this weekend. W00t!

[daerid]

Got it! Quick question though (sorry if its been covered): what temp is the best for soldering this thing?

[kaiserreich]

Got it! Quick question though (sorry if its been covered): what temp is the best for soldering this thing?

I use 350 for Lead solder, and 450 for lead free.
That's in celcius by the way.

Try not to mix the tips used for Lead and lead-free solder.

[mkawa]

it depends on your alloy, and yes, do not mix tips across alloys. the standard hobbyist 63/37 (ie, 63% tin, 37% lead) melts at exactly 182C and is euctetic, meaning that there is no transition between solid and liquid (and v.v., there is no hysteresis). this alloy, with a core of rosin flux was by far the most popular solder for many many years. kester's 44 very small diameter solder is still one of the best and has exactly this construction.

with the change in EU regulations in 2000-ish (RoHS lead-free no-clean), non-euctetic formulations and lead-free alloys have been de rigeur in mass production, as leaded soldered items cannot be imported into the EU. the upside of this is of course that we don't have to landfill so much lead. the downside is that standard solders are no longer euctetic, and have much weirder material properties and larger ranges of melting temps. non-rosin flux is also less corrosive (flux is meant to attack and dissolve oxidization on metal surfaces) and hence harder to work with.

the wiki article on solder is quite complete and very information. highly suggest taking a look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder

[Aranair]

got all my soldering + desoldering gear.. and probably going to desolder my poker X to add a plate to it.

Anything I should REALLY take note before I start?

[Photoelectric]

I've got the recommended desoldering iron from RadioShack so far.  Almost got my first switch out last night (but there's a skinny filament of solder left inside one of the holes, so waiting for other tools to arrive.

Ordered these from Amazon for my 2 Filco TKL projects

• Weller WLC100
• Aoyue Soldering Iron Tip Cleaner with Brass
• MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" - 0.6 oz cuts x 2
• MG Chemicals 400 Series #3 Fine Braid Super Wick with RMA Flux, 5' Length x 0.075"

And of course my Prime ran out a couple days ago, so slow shipping...  But when it all gets here, I'll start desoldering in earnest!  Still need to get a tip tinner--probably at RadioShack on my way home from work today.  Do you think the stock Weller WLC100 tip is sufficiently narrow if I'm careful, or do I need to get a smaller one?

Thanks for everyone's tips in this thread!

[HoffmanMyster]

Thanks for everyone's tips in this thread!

pun

[Tarzan]

euctetic = eutectic.

[mkawa]

euctetic = eutectic.

Thanks for everyone's spelling tips in this thread!

)

[alaricljs]

Got it! Quick question though (sorry if its been covered): what temp is the best for soldering this thing?

I use 350 for Lead solder, and 450 for lead free.
That's in celcius by the way.

Try not to mix the tips used for Lead and lead-free solder.

Wow... part of this is likely to be tip dependent, however I prefer to use the lowest possible temp to get the job done.  I don't do lead free, but my 888 is set to 275C for SMD work.  For KB switches 275C works, sometimes bump it to 300C.  For wire work with 18ga or larger, 325C.

[The_Beast]

I used to do everything on 5 on the weller WLC, now that I can control temps I use around 550F. It's a little bit hotter than alaricljs uses, but I find it a bit faster than if I'd use a lower temp.