Author Topic: The Orthodox  (Read 2365 times)

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Offline deductivemonkee

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The Orthodox
« on: Mon, 01 May 2017, 21:33:53 »
Due to how much I enjoy the let's split and planck form factor, while also liking the 40% form factor and the ergodox, I created this.
I call it the orthodox, it supports both i2c and serial, and uses either mini usb or micro usb to connect the two halves.
It runs on two pro micros, and supports cherry style switches, no alps. The reasoning behind this was a common complaint with the alps-mx reversible pads on the let's split, and holtites not working with it.
I will be doing a prototype GB with a pcb top plate, pcb, and pcb bottom plate. The reason that I opted for the pcb plates is mainly due to how cheap they are, where the full GB will receive acrylic sandwich cases with the added cost of it.
The pcb plates use m3 standoffs due to how available they are when compared to m2, with a maximum standoff diameter of 6mm, although I would opt for something thinner due to that being very tight.
Extra m2 screw holes are around the edges of the pcb for more redneck solutions however.

Now for some pcb renders.

167446-0167448-1167450-2167452-3167454-4167456-5

There are 23 keys per side, for a total of 46 keys. There are 2 1u keys and 3 1.25u keys in each thumb cluster.

This pcb is not finished, and I want to clean up all of my tracks and vias.

For a ballpark, the protos should be about $30 usd for 2 pcb top and bottom plates, along with 2 pcbs.
People who join the proto gb will get their name on the pcb, shown by the few names on the pcb to demonstrate, who gave me lot's of great input on the pcb. As such, the proto GB will be limited to 22 people.
« Last Edit: Mon, 01 May 2017, 21:37:20 by deductivemonkee »
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 01 May 2017, 22:59:13 »
I understand the  svelte keyboard is in.. But more keys is better especially because if you tent the keyboard to 55 degrees, you essentually reduced the left-right footprint by 2 units..  There's no reason not to add as many keys as you can.


For the ergodox for example.. I think another extra 2 rows on top and one extra column in the center would be perfectly useable..


Pokers look cool on the desk, but they're not practical in use unless you're a very light user. --the face book people-- hahahaha

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 02 May 2017, 02:27:23 »
I understand the  svelte keyboard is in.. But more keys is better especially because if you tent the keyboard to 55 degrees, you essentually reduced the left-right footprint by 2 units..  There's no reason not to add as many keys as you can.


For the ergodox for example.. I think another extra 2 rows on top and one extra column in the center would be perfectly useable..

While I agree that removing keys from the ergodox is counterproductive I think that a 40%ish split ergo board is a cool idea.

Pokers look cool on the desk, but they're not practical in use unless you're a very light user. --the face book people-- hahahaha

That's why I use HHKBs and a GON HHKB  :p

60% = best
People in the 1980s, in general, were clearly just better than we are now in every measurable way.

The dumber the reason the more it must be done

Offline Targa-TV

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 02 May 2017, 02:52:40 »
Browsing this ortholinear and ergonomic side of the mkb world I still don't understand how we have the Ergodox, the Preonic, the Split Planck, but not a Split Preonic and an ortholinear Ergodox.
An ergo version of the Split Planck seems like a step forward to all these possibilities, nice job.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 02 May 2017, 07:26:11 »
Browsing this ortholinear and ergonomic side of the mkb world I still don't understand how we have the Ergodox, the Preonic, the Split Planck, but not a Split Preonic and an ortholinear Ergodox.
An ergo version of the Split Planck seems like a step forward to all these possibilities, nice job.



I went down the --layout-- rabbit hole for the longest time.  Starting with TKL flat, then to split flat.


Eventually I realized after getting the ergodox, I realized what I was looking for was actually just TENTING..


The layout of the keys matter very little because when you're tented at a high angle, the lateral key crossings are accomplished by Major muscles groups located HIGHER UP on the arm.


The arm being as long as it is, is a long lever,  which means, any little movement, less than 1 degree, and you can cross the entire 2 or 3 key spacings you'd normally make on any keyboard..


That is to say,  key layout simply does not matter too much ..



The most important thing is TENTING..


Which smaller boards have more trouble with, because they are lighter and could fall over without adding weights..


Everything in the end is moddable..   but for the most convenience..  The ergodox with 2 more rows, and 1 more inside column, and possibly more weight is the only modification I find (Practical)..


Everything else is more aesthetic than useful.

Offline Targa-TV

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 02 May 2017, 09:29:43 »
I went down the --layout-- rabbit hole for the longest time.  Starting with TKL flat, then to split flat.
Eventually I realized after getting the ergodox, I realized what I was looking for was actually just TENTING..
The layout of the keys matter very little because when you're tented at a high angle, the lateral key crossings are accomplished by Major muscles groups located HIGHER UP on the arm.
The arm being as long as it is, is a long lever,  which means, any little movement, less than 1 degree, and you can cross the entire 2 or 3 key spacings you'd normally make on any keyboard..
That is to say,  key layout simply does not matter too much ..
The most important thing is TENTING..
Which smaller boards have more trouble with, because they are lighter and could fall over without adding weights..
Everything in the end is moddable..   but for the most convenience..  The ergodox with 2 more rows, and 1 more inside column, and possibly more weight is the only modification I find (Practical)..
Everything else is more aesthetic than useful.

Tp4 you don't need to capslock tenting, we all know that it's the most important thing for you!
You know, I've been around only a couple of months but I've already read about you going on and on about tenting so much that one day I think I'm going to introduce myself with something like "the most important thing is TENTING." XD

Anyway OP when you come by with the lovechild of the ergodox and the split preonic please supported by QMK please let me know.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 02 May 2017, 13:53:34 »
I went down the --layout-- rabbit hole for the longest time.  Starting with TKL flat, then to split flat.
Eventually I realized after getting the ergodox, I realized what I was looking for was actually just TENTING..
The layout of the keys matter very little because when you're tented at a high angle, the lateral key crossings are accomplished by Major muscles groups located HIGHER UP on the arm.
The arm being as long as it is, is a long lever,  which means, any little movement, less than 1 degree, and you can cross the entire 2 or 3 key spacings you'd normally make on any keyboard..
That is to say,  key layout simply does not matter too much ..
The most important thing is TENTING..
Which smaller boards have more trouble with, because they are lighter and could fall over without adding weights..
Everything in the end is moddable..   but for the most convenience..  The ergodox with 2 more rows, and 1 more inside column, and possibly more weight is the only modification I find (Practical)..
Everything else is more aesthetic than useful.

Tp4 you don't need to capslock TENTING, we all know that it's the most important thing for you!
You know, I've been around only a couple of months but I've already read about you going on and on about TENTING so much that one day I think I'm going to introduce myself with something like "the most important thing is TENTING." XD

Anyway OP when you come by with the lovechild of the ergodox and the split preonic please supported by QMK please let me know.




Offline Targa-TV

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 02 May 2017, 16:06:11 »
Is this tenting kit enough for the famous ideal 55 degrees?

Is there even a tenting kit online for such an angle?
I don't need to drag this old thing from whatever corner we put it do I?
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 02 May 2017, 17:38:18 »
Is this tenting kit enough for the famous ideal 55 degrees?
Show Image

Is there even a tenting kit online for such an angle?
I don't need to drag this old thing from whatever corner we put it do I?

that only looks like 15-25 degrees.. layed flat.

If you turn that vertically, it might be close to 55. but i'm not sure how you're doing the coupling.

Offline Targa-TV

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 03 May 2017, 02:40:39 »
that only looks like 15-25 degrees.. layed flat.

If you turn that vertically, it might be close to 55. but i'm not sure how you're doing the coupling.

Does coupling here mean supported? Because I was thinking about just letting the boards rest on the tenting kit, whatever that will be, and putting a couple of rubber pads on the corners of the boards so they don't slide off. I don't think I'm a huge fan of drilling holes or having long a* screws scratching around on my desk.

Anyway, I was thinking of rounding up my browsing this month and finally buy a kit before June. Who knew that I could get invested enough in mkb to read around for two months just to buy a new one. That's the ergonomic rabbit hole for me I guess.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 03 May 2017, 04:17:35 »
that only looks like 15-25 degrees.. layed flat.

If you turn that vertically, it might be close to 55. but i'm not sure how you're doing the coupling.

Does coupling here mean supported? Because I was thinking about just letting the boards rest on the tenting kit, whatever that will be, and putting a couple of rubber pads on the corners of the boards so they don't slide off. I don't think I'm a huge fan of drilling holes or having long a* screws scratching around on my desk.

Anyway, I was thinking of rounding up my browsing this month and finally buy a kit before June. Who knew that I could get invested enough in mkb to read around for two months just to buy a new one. That's the ergonomic rabbit hole for me I guess.

Well, i don't know if you've owned a split keyboard before.

But essentially, because you now CAN move the two pieces around to suit what you're doing, 

you WILL move them around quite often.


So if you got the stand that's not connected to the board, it's 2 extra things you need to align and move each time.

So that's not a practical solution.


I don't know the resolution of your printer, but if that type of tenting solution is what you've settled on, you should be able to print an m3 and countersinked hole for it.



For me,  I have a giant mouse pad, and everythign just goes ontop of that.  So I just have a 40mm screw + 30mm coupler + 100mm screw on the inside edge of my ergodox..

This gives me approximately 55 degrees.

Offline Targa-TV

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 03 May 2017, 04:41:10 »
But essentially, because you now CAN move the two pieces around to suit what you're doing, 
you WILL move them around quite often.
So if you got the stand that's not connected to the board, it's 2 extra things you need to align and move each time.
So that's not a practical solution.
Yeah that makes sense, that sounds very impractical.

I don't know the resolution of your printer, but if that type of tenting solution is what you've settled on, you should be able to print an m3 and countersinked hole for it.
For me,  I have a giant mouse pad, and everythign just goes ontop of that.  So I just have a 40mm screw + 30mm coupler + 100mm screw on the inside edge of my ergodox..
This gives me approximately 55 degrees.
I don't own a 3D printer but my local repair tech shop does so I plan to download the file and have a chat with them.
Holy hell, that's high.
So the good old screws

But WAY higher

Damn I don't get to have the wooden case do I?
« Last Edit: Wed, 03 May 2017, 04:42:59 by Targa-TV »
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 03 May 2017, 05:07:11 »
But essentially, because you now CAN move the two pieces around to suit what you're doing, 
you WILL move them around quite often.
So if you got the stand that's not connected to the board, it's 2 extra things you need to align and move each time.
So that's not a practical solution.
Yeah that makes sense, that sounds very impractical.

I don't know the resolution of your printer, but if that type of tenting solution is what you've settled on, you should be able to print an m3 and countersinked hole for it.
For me,  I have a giant mouse pad, and everythign just goes ontop of that.  So I just have a 40mm screw + 30mm coupler + 100mm screw on the inside edge of my ergodox..
This gives me approximately 55 degrees.
I don't own a 3D printer but my local repair tech shop does so I plan to download the file and have a chat with them.
Holy hell, that's high.
So the good old screws
Show Image

But WAY higher
Show Image

Damn I don't get to have the wooden case do I?



The first picture is what I was doing at first,  but then i realized I need ULTRA high..

The second picture is approximately the same angle I have mine at.

However as it turns out,  the tripod solution that the ergopro uses is NOT good, because it connects to the keyboard at a single pivot point.


This creates a central lever, so whenever you type near the edge of the keyboard it wants to fall out..



So 40mm or 50mm m3 screws + coupler + 100mm screw is the ideal tenting solution right now..



As for 3d printing, the down side is,  BEFORE you know what angle you want,  the print costs you money and it might not be the best fit.



You can readily download solidworks (fusion3d)  and draw something up to be printed yourself..  but even then it doesn't offer any adjust ability ..

Offline Targa-TV

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 03 May 2017, 06:12:05 »
The first picture is what I was doing at first,  but then i realized I need ULTRA high..
The second picture is approximately the same angle I have mine at.
However as it turns out,  the tripod solution that the ergopro uses is NOT good, because it connects to the keyboard at a single pivot point.
This creates a central lever, so whenever you type near the edge of the keyboard it wants to fall out..
So 40mm or 50mm m3 screws + coupler + 100mm screw is the ideal tenting solution right now..
As for 3d printing, the down side is,  BEFORE you know what angle you want,  the print costs you money and it might not be the best fit.
You can readily download solidworks (fusion3d)  and draw something up to be printed yourself..  but even then it doesn't offer any adjust ability ..

Handful of screws is a couple at my local hardware store, guess it's worth a try.
It's always the MoreYouKnow with you. Thank you for all the helpful info.
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 03 May 2017, 06:27:06 »
I would suggest switching from using Teensy 2.0 to Arduino Pro Micros and placing them under the innermost columns.

- Innermost column because that would allow you to build a sleeker lower-profile keyboard with a small default tenting.
- APM because they are much cheaper. You can get three or four of them for the price of one Teensy 2.0.

However as it turns out,  the tripod solution that the ergopro uses is NOT good, because it connects to the keyboard at a single pivot point.
BTW. I like the Goldtouch's feet. Piece of rubber at the edge of the case. Not on the bottom near the edge - at the edge.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 03 May 2017, 07:42:00 »

However as it turns out,  the tripod solution that the ergopro uses is NOT good, because it connects to the keyboard at a single pivot point.
BTW. I like the Goldtouch's feet. Piece of rubber at the edge of the case. Not on the bottom near the edge - at the edge.


if you're using a hard desk that's going to be necessary.

But I think most of it is moving towards big mousepad that goes under everything, which obviates any rubber feet..

Offline profet

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 03 May 2017, 11:06:57 »
This has nothing to do with the OP's topic.

Can we please just give tp4tissue his own thread about tenting... that we can all ignore?
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Offline LuX

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 03 May 2017, 11:39:58 »
This has nothing to do with the OP's topic.

Can we please just give tp4tissue his own thread about tenting... that we can all ignore?

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Offline deductivemonkee

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 05 May 2017, 20:13:53 »
I would suggest switching from using Teensy 2.0 to Arduino Pro Micros and placing them under the innermost columns.

- Innermost column because that would allow you to build a sleeker lower-profile keyboard with a small default tenting.
- APM because they are much cheaper. You can get three or four of them for the price of one Teensy 2.0.

However as it turns out,  the tripod solution that the ergopro uses is NOT good, because it connects to the keyboard at a single pivot point.
BTW. I like the Goldtouch's feet. Piece of rubber at the edge of the case. Not on the bottom near the edge - at the edge.

It does use pro micros, and the PCB has been completely redesigned to allow it to get down to only 8 vias. It also uses trrs to connect the halves now, as I found out that the 5th pin on micro and mini usb just goes to gnd to tell USB if it is a master or a slave when using otg. Because of this, it would only work with custom USB cables. I am also working on adding led backlighting currently.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 06 May 2017, 03:55:33 »
I would suggest switching from using Teensy 2.0 to Arduino Pro Micros and placing them under the innermost columns.

- Innermost column because that would allow you to build a sleeker lower-profile keyboard with a small default tenting.
- APM because they are much cheaper. You can get three or four of them for the price of one Teensy 2.0.

However as it turns out,  the tripod solution that the ergopro uses is NOT good, because it connects to the keyboard at a single pivot point.
BTW. I like the Goldtouch's feet. Piece of rubber at the edge of the case. Not on the bottom near the edge - at the edge.

It does use pro micros, and the PCB has been completely redesigned to allow it to get down to only 8 vias. It also uses trrs to connect the halves now, as I found out that the 5th pin on micro and mini usb just goes to gnd to tell USB if it is a master or a slave when using otg. Because of this, it would only work with custom USB cables. I am also working on adding led backlighting currently.


I think trrs is fine,  but make sure you get non-cheapo connectors, hahahaha.. the first gen ergodox got really messed up trrs connectors, because massdrop cheaped out on us..


You can use usb, to connect the two halves,  you just need to lay the traces TO the shield pins.. which is usually the anchor pins on the connector housing.  They're all conductors, and since this is a short run, the foil won't be much worse a conductor than the copper.


Offline riktors

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 22:40:00 »
Just wanted to say I'm really excited to try the orthodox out. After using a minidox for a while I'm pretty pumped to try the larger thumb cluster and standard ortho layout. Thanks for putting it together!

Offline deductivemonkee

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 22:41:23 »
Just wanted to say I'm really excited to try the orthodox out. After using a minidox for a while I'm pretty pumped to try the larger thumb cluster and standard ortho layout. Thanks for putting it together!

Glad to hear it :) The protos are still being produced, they should be shipped out to me next week if all goes well. :llama:
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Offline riktors

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 22:50:03 »
Just wanted to say I'm really excited to try the orthodox out. After using a minidox for a while I'm pretty pumped to try the larger thumb cluster and standard ortho layout. Thanks for putting it together!

Glad to hear it :) The protos are still being produced, they should be shipped out to me next week if all goes well. :llama:

Awesome, I'll be waiting patiently. That's a good bit easier since I have my let's split kit sitting here ready to go as well.  ;D

Offline deductivemonkee

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 06 June 2017, 19:52:14 »
Quick update, tracking shows that the PCBs will be here this Thursday, June 8th. Following this, I will be building a few on the weekend to make sure that there are no major issues with the PCBs. Shortly after that I will be sending them out.
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Offline deductivemonkee

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 12 June 2017, 17:32:31 »
PCBs have arrived, and I have one built and fully functioning. I am waiting on my order of boxes, and then I will ship out the protos.
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« Last Edit: Mon, 12 June 2017, 17:34:42 by deductivemonkee »
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Online algernon

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 12 June 2017, 18:26:16 »
PCBs have arrived, and I have one built and fully functioning. I am waiting on my order of boxes, and then I will ship out the protos.
(Attachment Link)

Those Diablo2 rune keycaps are so lovely!

Offline deductivemonkee

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 12 June 2017, 19:46:20 »
PCBs have arrived, and I have one built and fully functioning. I am waiting on my order of boxes, and then I will ship out the protos.
(Attachment Link)

Those Diablo2 rune keycaps are so lovely!

they're really nice to type on too. really nice sound from the gatistotles.
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Offline deductivemonkee

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 17 June 2017, 18:52:13 »
Protos were sent yesterday, if you did not receive a tracking number it means that you selected the untracked option.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 19 June 2017, 05:23:55 »
Hrrrmm...


To use a high tenting angle on this smaller board,   we probably need very  thick plates for ballast.

Offline Hazzula

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 21 June 2017, 08:19:20 »
THIS is exactly what i was looking for. I have small hands and I never realized how big the ergodox was until I saw a picture of a friend using one and it put me off.

Is there a mailing list I can subscribe to so that I can get updates on the next batch? Would love to get one!

Offline Tiramisuu

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Re: The Orthodox
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 24 June 2017, 02:43:02 »
This is the perfect form factor for a small stenoboard for plover.  :thumb:
Where did you get the plates cut?
« Last Edit: Sat, 24 June 2017, 02:44:46 by Tiramisuu »
Keyboard error F1 to continue.

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