Author Topic: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?  (Read 6058 times)

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Offline TacticalCoder

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Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« on: Fri, 15 September 2017, 20:01:41 »
Hi,

I don't know anything about monitors tech. For coding only (no games at all, no movies, no vids), would you recommend IPS or (P)VA panels?

I'm using since years already a 27" 2560x1440 AOC Q2770PQU which has an IPS panel and I don't see anything wrong with it besides the fact that I'd like a little bit more horizontal pixels estate.

So I'd maybe like to buy a 3440x1440 screen (I need 1440 pixels vertically, can't work with less than that anymore) and was wondering if I should go IPS or VA or something else?

Any 34" or 35" screen you'd recommend, curved or not? (tried a 34" curved screen and I kinda liked it but I don't remember which model it was).

I guess the 34" "version of the 27" I currently have" would be the AOC U3477PQU.

I saw good reviews about the curved Samsung S34E790C 34" LED Ultra WQHD (which has a VA panel as I understand it from reading the spec), which is about 750 EUR VAT included (that's ok for me). Is this something you guys would recommend for coding?

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 15 September 2017, 20:05:12 »
for coding it doesn't matter. AT ALL.. 



I would still say bigger is better..    just so you can see without squinting,   but other than that..  don't see why anything else would matter.

Offline TacticalCoder

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 15 September 2017, 20:25:52 »
I would still say bigger is better..    just so you can see without squinting,   but other than that..  don't see why anything else would matter.

I'll make sure pixels are not physically smaller than those I have now. But that's good news: so I've got plenty (?) of choice : )
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 September 2017, 21:41:50 by TacticalCoder »
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Offline davkol

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 16 September 2017, 10:27:42 »
Viewing angles are a big deal, if you ever plan to use a monitor in portrait mode. If you're looking at ultrawides, you probably don't, but even then you'll want some consistency, if you're off-center or something.

I mention this because of my past experience with (old) VA panels that had good viewing angles only from three sides (the fourth was terrible, colors inverted almost immediately).

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 16 September 2017, 10:46:57 »
Viewing angles are a big deal, if you ever plan to use a monitor in portrait mode. If you're looking at ultrawides, you probably don't, but even then you'll want some consistency, if you're off-center or something.

I mention this because of my past experience with (old) VA panels that had good viewing angles only from three sides (the fourth was terrible, colors inverted almost immediately).

//grrrr///

ok .. tp4 admits,  did not think about vertical orientation..

if you need vertical,   ips is the best way to go..

Offline Shapey Fiend

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 16 September 2017, 17:48:56 »
I kind of wonder what effect these things are having on our eyes. My eyesight is getting crappier all the time (shortsightedness) but maybe that's just inevitable not screentime related.

It'd be interesting if they ever manage do something equivalent to E Ink screens with better refresh rates.

Offline TacticalCoder

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 17 September 2017, 21:22:15 »
Viewing angles are a big deal, if you ever plan to use a monitor in portrait mode. If you're looking at ultrawides, you probably don't, but even then you'll want some consistency, if you're off-center or something.

I mention this because of my past experience with (old) VA panels that had good viewing angles only from three sides (the fourth was terrible, colors inverted almost immediately).

Ah that's good to know but I plan to use it in portrait mode only!
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Offline TacticalCoder

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 17 September 2017, 21:26:45 »
I kind of wonder what effect these things are having on our eyes. My eyesight is getting crappier all the time (shortsightedness) but maybe that's just inevitable not screentime related.

I'm probably one of the lucky ones re-eyesight... All I can tell you is that CRTs gave me headaches for years and years and my first LCD was a little godsend (some Dell 20" something I think, that costed me an arm and a leg): my headaches mostly stopped the day I switched from CRT to LCD (even if the first flat monitors had crappy refresh rates).

I'm in my mid-forties and still have 10/10 eyesight, no glasses. Several people told me "it won't last" but it's basically been 15 years people have been telling me that. I'm using a 27" screen since 18 months, before that I had a 24" screen.

I hope the 34" screen ain't going to cause eyes issues : )
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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 18 September 2017, 09:32:57 »
For the office cubicle there are stern limitations to size.


But if this is an At home situation..

Consider getting a 50 or 60 inch tv for the computer monitor,  And simply move the table to the middle or back of the room.


This is the best for your eyes, because as soon as your eyes focus on objects @ greater than 1 to 1.5 meters,  the lens is at configuration for infinity focus,  which means the ciliary muscles (which contract the lens for near focus)  are completely at rest.


Near focus is one of the major components responsible for eye strain..




Second to that is switching to a Dark background with  Grey or lower contrast text.


This relaxes your iris, which is also a muscle.

View this image fit to fullscreen in a separate tab,  and then tab back to your own configuration,

You should feel your eye suddenly relax.. and then suddenly on the base configuration, it will feel tighter.

178562-0




The distance also helps with  relaxing the lateral and medial rectus muscles responsible for  "vergence" of the eye,   


--- When you look at something closer,  the eyes turn towards each other  in a cross eyed motion to both focus  on the object--

But for distance objects,  these muscles also relax..



The combination of releasing all these muscles in a large screen  long distance viewing situation greatly reduces strain..




The reason , this hasn't been discussed much in computer literature is primarily because large screens were not cost effective throughout the early history of computer use.



However,   times are changing,  50 inch 4k tvs sell for $300 @ wallyworld..


Offline foxlive

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 18 September 2017, 10:33:52 »
I would definitely go for an IPS (the only way to go for me). Saying that you are « only coding » do not prevent to use a good monitor! 4k is the must (sharp text) and ips with good viewing angle is so much better. We are getting crazy on keyboard here, don’t spend 500$ on your keeb and pair it with ****ty screen :eek:.

I personally own a 32’ 4k dell ips, marvelous for coding. And don’t worry about the required gpu power to drive it for code, I used to have it on a 2013 macbook pro with a gefore 750m (pure crap), and still it work and was perfectly fluid for work!

For me the keypoint is to have a precise screen (color), maybe it is because I do some photography and design, but still it always help, and in general ****ty screen with bad colors always look blueish, which is painful.
So go for the « graphic » screen with ips and good color restitution, and you will have the perfect screen for coding/web/work!  ^-^

Offline Altis

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 18 September 2017, 15:36:52 »
Foxlive is right.

IPS makes a huge difference in fatigue over time because the viewing angles are much better, the colors are richer, the contrast is better, and of course you can use it vertically as well.

The only reasons to get a TN monitor are cost and if you need high refresh/fast response, since IPS tends to be bad at that (and expensive to make it acceptable), ie. gaming monitors.

I have one of each because they're each so much better at their strengths.
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Offline TacticalCoder

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 20 September 2017, 20:14:09 »
OK thanks guys, so IPS shall it be!

Good point about not buying a screen worth less than my HHKB Pro JP : )
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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 21 September 2017, 01:28:20 »
As I dabble with whatever it is that weird people like me dabble in I found that redshift or flux helps quite a bit with eye fatigue. Something about filtering blue light iirc
   

Offline FloFoer94

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 21 September 2017, 02:14:16 »
Ah that's good to know but I plan to use it in portrait mode only!

You want an 34" ultrawide for portrait mode? Interesting. Isn't that much to tall to be usable? I have a Dell Utrasharp 25" in portrait with 1440x2560 and i wouldn't go taller than that. Or did you mean landscape only?
But yeah, monitors for portrait mode should always be IPS. I have a second 27" 2560x1440 monitor in landscape with VA panel and i tried it once in portrait, it was horrible.
But also, IPS looks always better than VA, even for coding, staring at a better quality is preferable. If you have enough money for expensive keyboards you should have enough money for a good quality screen.
 

Offline FloFoer94

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 21 September 2017, 02:18:00 »
As I dabble with whatever it is that weird people like me dabble in I found that redshift or flux helps quite a bit with eye fatigue. Something about filtering blue light iirc

Yes that could be true. Also it is assumed that you can sleep better at night if you are not in front of a blue light source in evening times, because this is unnatural and keeps the body going.
Windows 10 has a built in function to reduce blue light to a defined amount at the evening. I also use Philips Hue Lighting so that i can change my room from cold white during "work" hours to warm white in the evening. Also more relaxing.
 

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 21 September 2017, 13:44:01 »
As I dabble with whatever it is that weird people like me dabble in I found that redshift or flux helps quite a bit with eye fatigue. Something about filtering blue light iirc

Yes that could be true. Also it is assumed that you can sleep better at night if you are not in front of a blue light source in evening times, because this is unnatural and keeps the body going.
Windows 10 has a built in function to reduce blue light to a defined amount at the evening. I also use Philips Hue Lighting so that i can change my room from cold white during "work" hours to warm white in the evening. Also more relaxing.

Windows 10 has that built in? Interesting, I use redshift with predefined coords on both Windows 10 and Manjaro. Flux was great but I had some issues regarding Radeon drivers and fullscreen applications not adjusting to Flux's configuration. As for lighting, if my computing area has 60 hertz mains (which it does iirc) I'm fine
   

Offline FloFoer94

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 21 September 2017, 14:01:24 »
Windows 10 has that built in? Interesting, I use redshift with predefined coords on both Windows 10 and Manjaro. Flux was great but I had some issues regarding Radeon drivers and fullscreen applications not adjusting to Flux's configuration. As for lighting, if my computing area has 60 hertz mains (which it does iirc) I'm fine

Yes, since the creators update.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3189747/windows/how-to-use-night-light-in-the-windows-10-creators-update.html
 

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 21 September 2017, 14:10:44 »
Windows 10 has that built in? Interesting, I use redshift with predefined coords on both Windows 10 and Manjaro. Flux was great but I had some issues regarding Radeon drivers and fullscreen applications not adjusting to Flux's configuration. As for lighting, if my computing area has 60 hertz mains (which it does iirc) I'm fine

Yes, since the creators update.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3189747/windows/how-to-use-night-light-in-the-windows-10-creators-update.html

Man, I should have read the documentation. Thanks for the link
   

Offline typo

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 21 September 2017, 22:28:56 »
I use a Wide Gamut IPS because I create models as part of coding. If you do not TN is actually easier on the eyes. The way the colors pop on this is probably dangerous. According to THX you should sit 3" from a 50" TV lol. Those are just people that take something to the extreme. You can find that about anything. I sit 26' from a 65" for my TV and it is fine. Get on top of it and I get dizzy. My 3 32" displays are on the wall about 6 feet from my viewing position. I do need to read the type. Sitting on top of anything bigger than 20" does not interest me. Honestly the best display is a 20" IPS high color(lut) but not wide Gamut with a CCFL backlight. The only way you wil find one is used. Which is good because they were $3,000 and used maybe $200. That same $200 will buy junk at best buy. If gaming one is going to need to consider refresh rate though. For professional use only look at Eizo and NEC. Unless your employer buys it a new one has an astronomical price tag. Watch out though because they make lower lines of both of those brands too.

Offline TacticalCoder

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 23 September 2017, 17:46:19 »
You want an 34" ultrawide for portrait mode? Interesting. Isn't that much to tall to be usable? I have a Dell Utrasharp 25" in portrait with 1440x2560 and i wouldn't go taller than that. Or did you mean landscape only?

Erf, of course you're right... I meant to use it "horizontally" in "landscape" mode.  I just typed the wrong word : )

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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 08 October 2017, 06:09:00 »
I code on black background, mostly white and gray on black. I would like VA or AHVA panels (actually OLED, but we are not there yet), since black levels are better and thus better contrast.

IPS is the best I came across so far, I have a variety of them (U2713HM, U2715H), but what I absolutely HATE about them, is the ips glow, which essentially reduces contrast.

At night (when I prefer to code), when I look to the sides (2x 27", 1x 24"), yes, the viewing angles are good. But still the ips glow makes it difficult at times.
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Offline TacticalCoder

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 15 October 2017, 10:31:10 »
I code on black background...

I code on dark background since basically forever: got used to that back in the eighties as a kid and I could never ever adapt to coding a light background.  Daylight time or nighttime: I always code on dark backgrounds.

I'm very happy that since quite a few years ago now dark background made a comeback because it felt lonely when I was one the rare weirdo using a black theme. For example IntelliJ didn't have any black theme until semi-recently: I remember that back in IntelliJ IDEA 4 (that was a very long time ago) I spent hours making my own black theme which I then carried on from version to version until they eventually released a version offering black themes.

Terminals, "IDE" (Emacs and sometimes IntelliJ IDEA), tiling window manager taskbar, geekhack and whatnots: everytime a "black theme" is available I use one and if it's not available, I make one when possible!
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 October 2017, 10:33:22 by TacticalCoder »
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 16 October 2017, 13:46:26 »
I code on black background...

I code on dark background since basically forever: got used to that back in the eighties as a kid and I could never ever adapt to coding a light background.  Daylight time or nighttime: I always code on dark backgrounds.

I'm very happy that since quite a few years ago now dark background made a comeback because it felt lonely when I was one the rare weirdo using a black theme. For example IntelliJ didn't have any black theme until semi-recently: I remember that back in IntelliJ IDEA 4 (that was a very long time ago) I spent hours making my own black theme which I then carried on from version to version until they eventually released a version offering black themes.

Terminals, "IDE" (Emacs and sometimes IntelliJ IDEA), tiling window manager taskbar, geekhack and whatnots: everytime a "black theme" is available I use one and if it's not available, I make one when possible!

Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.
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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 16 October 2017, 15:29:38 »
I code on black background...

I code on dark background since basically forever: got used to that back in the eighties as a kid and I could never ever adapt to coding a light background.  Daylight time or nighttime: I always code on dark backgrounds.

I'm very happy that since quite a few years ago now dark background made a comeback because it felt lonely when I was one the rare weirdo using a black theme. For example IntelliJ didn't have any black theme until semi-recently: I remember that back in IntelliJ IDEA 4 (that was a very long time ago) I spent hours making my own black theme which I then carried on from version to version until they eventually released a version offering black themes.

Terminals, "IDE" (Emacs and sometimes IntelliJ IDEA), tiling window manager taskbar, geekhack and whatnots: everytime a "black theme" is available I use one and if it's not available, I make one when possible!

Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

Recently found this little snippet
Code: [Select]
xcalib [-options]

-i for invert imo looks nice when I'm viewing loads of text. A few other options are available for xcalib like display, screen#, contrast, RGB adjustment, etc. Redshift will override xcalib on my system but I have a snippet that'll kill redshift before xcalib. So it goes

180339-0
-edited with example potato


« Last Edit: Mon, 16 October 2017, 15:46:28 by csmertx »
   

Offline davkol

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 17 October 2017, 02:51:42 »
Interesting, I forgot about xcalib. I'd solve my issue with too high contrast at times; I was already considering writing a custom effect for KWin, based on the current color-inversion one. That can't be hard anyway, it's just a slightly different color transformation… a few lines of linear algebra and that's it.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 17 October 2017, 04:32:03 »
I code on black background...

I code on dark background since basically forever: got used to that back in the eighties as a kid and I could never ever adapt to coding a light background.  Daylight time or nighttime: I always code on dark backgrounds.

I'm very happy that since quite a few years ago now dark background made a comeback because it felt lonely when I was one the rare weirdo using a black theme. For example IntelliJ didn't have any black theme until semi-recently: I remember that back in IntelliJ IDEA 4 (that was a very long time ago) I spent hours making my own black theme which I then carried on from version to version until they eventually released a version offering black themes.

Terminals, "IDE" (Emacs and sometimes IntelliJ IDEA), tiling window manager taskbar, geekhack and whatnots: everytime a "black theme" is available I use one and if it's not available, I make one when possible!

Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

Recently found this little snippet
Code: [Select]
xcalib [-options]

-i for invert imo looks nice when I'm viewing loads of text. A few other options are available for xcalib like display, screen#, contrast, RGB adjustment, etc. Redshift will override xcalib on my system but I have a snippet that'll kill redshift before xcalib. So it goes

(Attachment Link)
-edited with example potato

Thanks! That's pretty useful.
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Offline JohanAR

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 18 October 2017, 03:31:24 »
Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

There's no fundamental difference between emitted light and reflected light. If you turn down the brightness to match the amount of light a white paper would reflect in the same environment your monitor shouldn't blind you any more than looking at that paper. But if you sit in a dark room a dark background is probably much better for you, I code primarily during the day and have plenty of windows so I don't have any issues with white backgrounds.

Speaking of web sites, the Heroes of Newerth forums were the worst.. They had an almost black pattern as background but didn't specify a background color in css so when it started rendering a new page the browser would use the default white. This meant that every time you clicked anything the page would briefly flash white which was extremely annoying

Offline TacticalCoder

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 18 October 2017, 21:52:19 »
Then there are the color themes like "solarized" that have both night and day version, where you can switch between clear and dark background while all the other colors look identical (useful if you have, say, Java statics that always appears in "orange" or whatever: you can keep your memory muscle as to which color is what no matter if the background is clear or dark).

My color theme is not unlike the goold old C64: with a dark blue background (so not entirely black).
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 19 October 2017, 04:14:26 »
Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

There's no fundamental difference between emitted light and reflected light. If you turn down the brightness to match the amount of light a white paper would reflect in the same environment your monitor shouldn't blind you any more than looking at that paper. But if you sit in a dark room a dark background is probably much better for you, I code primarily during the day and have plenty of windows so I don't have any issues with white backgrounds.

Speaking of web sites, the Heroes of Newerth forums were the worst.. They had an almost black pattern as background but didn't specify a background color in css so when it started rendering a new page the browser would use the default white. This meant that every time you clicked anything the page would briefly flash white which was extremely annoying

Assuming the kelvin (temperature), reflectiveness of the surface, and the strength (candela) of the light is exactly the same, I totally agree. On a physical level, it is the same.

However, typically, a computer monitor is brighter (cd/m2) then the light that reflects of off a piece of paper.

There are a lot of studies that show that reading off of paper is better for your eyes, and even easier to encode the content into memory, compared to reading off of a screen. I don't know what the explanation was though.

However, I am undermining my whole argument here, because I like to work on black backgrounds, which these studies would probably tell me is "unnatural".
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Offline Altis

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 23 October 2017, 11:22:28 »
Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

There's no fundamental difference between emitted light and reflected light. If you turn down the brightness to match the amount of light a white paper would reflect in the same environment your monitor shouldn't blind you any more than looking at that paper. But if you sit in a dark room a dark background is probably much better for you, I code primarily during the day and have plenty of windows so I don't have any issues with white backgrounds.

Speaking of web sites, the Heroes of Newerth forums were the worst.. They had an almost black pattern as background but didn't specify a background color in css so when it started rendering a new page the browser would use the default white. This meant that every time you clicked anything the page would briefly flash white which was extremely annoying

Assuming the kelvin (temperature), reflectiveness of the surface, and the strength (candela) of the light is exactly the same, I totally agree. On a physical level, it is the same.

However, typically, a computer monitor is brighter (cd/m2) then the light that reflects of off a piece of paper.

There are a lot of studies that show that reading off of paper is better for your eyes, and even easier to encode the content into memory, compared to reading off of a screen. I don't know what the explanation was though.

However, I am undermining my whole argument here, because I like to work on black backgrounds, which these studies would probably tell me is "unnatural".

There are a few other factors, like PWM backlighting and color temperature, that could affect things as well.

I try to match the brightness and color temperature to the surrounding area using f.lux.
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Online csmertx

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 23 October 2017, 16:08:11 »
Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

There's no fundamental difference between emitted light and reflected light. If you turn down the brightness to match the amount of light a white paper would reflect in the same environment your monitor shouldn't blind you any more than looking at that paper. But if you sit in a dark room a dark background is probably much better for you, I code primarily during the day and have plenty of windows so I don't have any issues with white backgrounds.

Speaking of web sites, the Heroes of Newerth forums were the worst.. They had an almost black pattern as background but didn't specify a background color in css so when it started rendering a new page the browser would use the default white. This meant that every time you clicked anything the page would briefly flash white which was extremely annoying

Assuming the kelvin (temperature), reflectiveness of the surface, and the strength (candela) of the light is exactly the same, I totally agree. On a physical level, it is the same.

However, typically, a computer monitor is brighter (cd/m2) then the light that reflects of off a piece of paper.

There are a lot of studies that show that reading off of paper is better for your eyes, and even easier to encode the content into memory, compared to reading off of a screen. I don't know what the explanation was though.

However, I am undermining my whole argument here, because I like to work on black backgrounds, which these studies would probably tell me is "unnatural".

There are a few other factors, like PWM backlighting and color temperature, that could affect things as well.

I try to match the brightness and color temperature to the surrounding area using f.lux.

And if f.lux messes with your video drivers Redshift is also available for Windows. Manual settings or automagical settings both work just fine. Probably not an option for OSX though.
   

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 23 October 2017, 17:11:21 »
Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

There's no fundamental difference between emitted light and reflected light. If you turn down the brightness to match the amount of light a white paper would reflect in the same environment your monitor shouldn't blind you any more than looking at that paper. But if you sit in a dark room a dark background is probably much better for you, I code primarily during the day and have plenty of windows so I don't have any issues with white backgrounds.

Speaking of web sites, the Heroes of Newerth forums were the worst.. They had an almost black pattern as background but didn't specify a background color in css so when it started rendering a new page the browser would use the default white. This meant that every time you clicked anything the page would briefly flash white which was extremely annoying

Assuming the kelvin (temperature), reflectiveness of the surface, and the strength (candela) of the light is exactly the same, I totally agree. On a physical level, it is the same.

However, typically, a computer monitor is brighter (cd/m2) then the light that reflects of off a piece of paper.

There are a lot of studies that show that reading off of paper is better for your eyes, and even easier to encode the content into memory, compared to reading off of a screen. I don't know what the explanation was though.

However, I am undermining my whole argument here, because I like to work on black backgrounds, which these studies would probably tell me is "unnatural".

There are a few other factors, like PWM backlighting and color temperature, that could affect things as well.

I try to match the brightness and color temperature to the surrounding area using f.lux.

Yes, I also only have monitors that are PWM-free. Color temperature I try to calibrate across screens, i only use f.lux when looking at white backgrounds at night. Sometimes it feels VERY YELLOW.
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Offline jackalopephoto

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 27 October 2017, 10:52:06 »
I code on black background...

I code on dark background since basically forever: got used to that back in the eighties as a kid and I could never ever adapt to coding a light background.  Daylight time or nighttime: I always code on dark backgrounds.

I'm very happy that since quite a few years ago now dark background made a comeback because it felt lonely when I was one the rare weirdo using a black theme. For example IntelliJ didn't have any black theme until semi-recently: I remember that back in IntelliJ IDEA 4 (that was a very long time ago) I spent hours making my own black theme which I then carried on from version to version until they eventually released a version offering black themes.

Terminals, "IDE" (Emacs and sometimes IntelliJ IDEA), tiling window manager taskbar, geekhack and whatnots: everytime a "black theme" is available I use one and if it's not available, I make one when possible!

Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

You're missing something important. The amount of light entering your eye affects the iris opening size. Your eye is like a camera that automatically adjust aperture. The smaller your aperture, the easy it is to focus (more depth of field). That means for close work, brighter the light, the less your eye has to warp the lens to be able to focus. Low light causes physical strain to the eye.

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 27 October 2017, 11:52:34 »
I code on black background...

I code on dark background since basically forever: got used to that back in the eighties as a kid and I could never ever adapt to coding a light background.  Daylight time or nighttime: I always code on dark backgrounds.

I'm very happy that since quite a few years ago now dark background made a comeback because it felt lonely when I was one the rare weirdo using a black theme. For example IntelliJ didn't have any black theme until semi-recently: I remember that back in IntelliJ IDEA 4 (that was a very long time ago) I spent hours making my own black theme which I then carried on from version to version until they eventually released a version offering black themes.

Terminals, "IDE" (Emacs and sometimes IntelliJ IDEA), tiling window manager taskbar, geekhack and whatnots: everytime a "black theme" is available I use one and if it's not available, I make one when possible!

Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

You're missing something important. The amount of light entering your eye affects the iris opening size. Your eye is like a camera that automatically adjust aperture. The smaller your aperture, the easy it is to focus (more depth of field). That means for close work, brighter the light, the less your eye has to warp the lens to be able to focus. Low light causes physical strain to the eye.

The human eye is a bit more complicated than a camera lens.
   

Offline jackalopephoto

  • Posts: 27
Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 27 October 2017, 12:08:11 »
I code on black background...

I code on dark background since basically forever: got used to that back in the eighties as a kid and I could never ever adapt to coding a light background.  Daylight time or nighttime: I always code on dark backgrounds.

I'm very happy that since quite a few years ago now dark background made a comeback because it felt lonely when I was one the rare weirdo using a black theme. For example IntelliJ didn't have any black theme until semi-recently: I remember that back in IntelliJ IDEA 4 (that was a very long time ago) I spent hours making my own black theme which I then carried on from version to version until they eventually released a version offering black themes.

Terminals, "IDE" (Emacs and sometimes IntelliJ IDEA), tiling window manager taskbar, geekhack and whatnots: everytime a "black theme" is available I use one and if it's not available, I make one when possible!

Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

You're missing something important. The amount of light entering your eye affects the iris opening size. Your eye is like a camera that automatically adjust aperture. The smaller your aperture, the easy it is to focus (more depth of field). That means for close work, brighter the light, the less your eye has to warp the lens to be able to focus. Low light causes physical strain to the eye.

The human eye is a bit more complicated than a camera lens.

Not a camera lens, a whole camera

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 27 October 2017, 13:44:47 »
I code on black background...

I code on dark background since basically forever: got used to that back in the eighties as a kid and I could never ever adapt to coding a light background.  Daylight time or nighttime: I always code on dark backgrounds.

I'm very happy that since quite a few years ago now dark background made a comeback because it felt lonely when I was one the rare weirdo using a black theme. For example IntelliJ didn't have any black theme until semi-recently: I remember that back in IntelliJ IDEA 4 (that was a very long time ago) I spent hours making my own black theme which I then carried on from version to version until they eventually released a version offering black themes.

Terminals, "IDE" (Emacs and sometimes IntelliJ IDEA), tiling window manager taskbar, geekhack and whatnots: everytime a "black theme" is available I use one and if it's not available, I make one when possible!

Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

You're missing something important. The amount of light entering your eye affects the iris opening size. Your eye is like a camera that automatically adjust aperture. The smaller your aperture, the easy it is to focus (more depth of field). That means for close work, brighter the light, the less your eye has to warp the lens to be able to focus. Low light causes physical strain to the eye.

The human eye is a bit more complicated than a camera lens.

Not a camera lens, a whole camera

The human eye is a bit more complicated than any camera currently in production.
   

Offline jackalopephoto

  • Posts: 27
Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 27 October 2017, 14:40:34 »
I code on black background...

I code on dark background since basically forever: got used to that back in the eighties as a kid and I could never ever adapt to coding a light background.  Daylight time or nighttime: I always code on dark backgrounds.

I'm very happy that since quite a few years ago now dark background made a comeback because it felt lonely when I was one the rare weirdo using a black theme. For example IntelliJ didn't have any black theme until semi-recently: I remember that back in IntelliJ IDEA 4 (that was a very long time ago) I spent hours making my own black theme which I then carried on from version to version until they eventually released a version offering black themes.

Terminals, "IDE" (Emacs and sometimes IntelliJ IDEA), tiling window manager taskbar, geekhack and whatnots: everytime a "black theme" is available I use one and if it's not available, I make one when possible!

Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

You're missing something important. The amount of light entering your eye affects the iris opening size. Your eye is like a camera that automatically adjust aperture. The smaller your aperture, the easy it is to focus (more depth of field). That means for close work, brighter the light, the less your eye has to warp the lens to be able to focus. Low light causes physical strain to the eye.

The human eye is a bit more complicated than a camera lens.

Not a camera lens, a whole camera

The human eye is a bit more complicated than any camera currently in production.

Regardless, I was using the aperture on a camera to explain how the iris works and the effect on depth of field

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 27 October 2017, 14:59:00 »
I code on black background...

I code on dark background since basically forever: got used to that back in the eighties as a kid and I could never ever adapt to coding a light background.  Daylight time or nighttime: I always code on dark backgrounds.

I'm very happy that since quite a few years ago now dark background made a comeback because it felt lonely when I was one the rare weirdo using a black theme. For example IntelliJ didn't have any black theme until semi-recently: I remember that back in IntelliJ IDEA 4 (that was a very long time ago) I spent hours making my own black theme which I then carried on from version to version until they eventually released a version offering black themes.

Terminals, "IDE" (Emacs and sometimes IntelliJ IDEA), tiling window manager taskbar, geekhack and whatnots: everytime a "black theme" is available I use one and if it's not available, I make one when possible!

Even though people still argue that "white is more natural to the eye, like paper", I think that is completely backwards because paper is not a lamp.

Black backgrounds are way more easy on my eyes than are white backgrounds. I also hate that most websites are white-ish. So when I am coding at night and I look at a website it blinds me.

You're missing something important. The amount of light entering your eye affects the iris opening size. Your eye is like a camera that automatically adjust aperture. The smaller your aperture, the easy it is to focus (more depth of field). That means for close work, brighter the light, the less your eye has to warp the lens to be able to focus. Low light causes physical strain to the eye.

The human eye is a bit more complicated than a camera lens.

Not a camera lens, a whole camera

The human eye is a bit more complicated than any camera currently in production.

Regardless, I was using the aperture on a camera to explain how the iris works and the effect on depth of field

mhm
   

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Re: Are IPS or VA panels better for coding?
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 27 October 2017, 15:00:28 »


Regardless, I was using the aperture on a camera to explain how the iris works and the effect on depth of field


I think you have some idea as to how a camera works.

but you are very off on how the EYE works.


The eye focus system works in a very different way vs camera aperture..


The brightness of light is inversely contributing to eyestrain.


When the light is bright, the iris has to contract. This is the same as a muscle contraction, thereby bright light causes strain in this regard.


Now as for the LENS,  the human eye's lens is controlled by yet-another set of muscles. known as the cilliary muscles.

These muscles are not strained so much by light,  they are strained if they have to focus on anything closer to you than approximately 1 meter.

When you look at objects greater than 1 meter, the ciliary muscles which controls the Lens is more/less at rest.


The 3rd source of eye strain is the lateral and medial eye muscles which control the Vergence of the eye,  These also respond to distance to object and relaxes similarly at greater than 1 meter.