[IC] NovelPro - A New Keycap Profile from NovelKeys

[Theswetiyeti]

Very interested in this.

[iliketimex]

My only suggestion for this project, since it is double-shot and will have to be engraved with no changes to be made to the mold, is to improve the font consistency over what signature plastics is doing. For the modifier keys, the font size, kerning, tracking, and horizontal scaling (condensed vs. extended font appearance) should be consistent over the entire keyset. If you look at SP's modifiers, they are all over the map in terms of font size, scaling, tracking, etc. When new keys are added, which needs a new mold, the weight of the font changes. None of this is really acceptable, but as hobbyists we live with it because there is no other option.

So my suggestion is to force the manu to adhere to consistency in the area of typography. If a larger text will not fit on a keycap, then it is better to reduce font size than to "squish" the font horizontal scaling or to radically change the tracking. In some cases abbreviation is better than changing the consistency of the sizing. All of the modifiers should have the same font size and properties unless there is a good reason why it needs to be changed, like single character modifiers which can be enlarged to maintain the same "visual weight" as the other key designs.

I can post pics if needed but all one has to do is look at the difference between renderings of SP SA keysets, and the actual keyset. The renders always look better because the designer can maintain font consistency.

Good luck with the project, wish you the best of luck.

[euphxenos]

I'd like to have a Function key in the C row to replace Caps Lock, but I wouldn't do that by removing Control.  Right now you have centered and staggered versions of both "CAPS LOCK" and "CTRL".  I'd keep both centered and staggered "CAPS LOCK", and have the alternatives be centered "CONTROL" and "FUNCTION" (so lose the staggered ctrl, change the centered ctrl's legend to not be abbreviated, since it no longer needs to match the truncated one on the staggered key, and add a centered function).  Then you have all three legends available, and still have a staggered cap for boards that need it.

[e11i0t23]

Both profile and colour scheme interest me, would build an ANSI board just to try these out. Also nice to see a set of POM.

[Damage]

This is looking really good. Curious about POM. Why choose that, and what would one expect from it vs. ABS or PBT?

[mgsickler]

My only suggestion for this project, since it is double-shot and will have to be engraved with no changes to be made to the mold, is to improve the font consistency over what signature plastics is doing. For the modifier keys, the font size, kerning, tracking, and horizontal scaling (condensed vs. extended font appearance) should be consistent over the entire keyset. If you look at SP's modifiers, they are all over the map in terms of font size, scaling, tracking, etc. When new keys are added, which needs a new mold, the weight of the font changes. None of this is really acceptable, but as hobbyists we live with it because there is no other option.

So my suggestion is to force the manu to adhere to consistency in the area of typography. If a larger text will not fit on a keycap, then it is better to reduce font size than to "squish" the font horizontal scaling or to radically change the tracking. In some cases abbreviation is better than changing the consistency of the sizing. All of the modifiers should have the same font size and properties unless there is a good reason why it needs to be changed, like single character modifiers which can be enlarged to maintain the same "visual weight" as the other key designs.

I can post pics if needed but all one has to do is look at the difference between renderings of SP SA keysets, and the actual keyset. The renders always look better because the designer can maintain font consistency.

Good luck with the project, wish you the best of luck.

Thats definitely the goal!

I'd like to have a Function key in the C row to replace Caps Lock, but I wouldn't do that by removing Control.  Right now you have centered and staggered versions of both "CAPS LOCK" and "CTRL".  I'd keep both centered and staggered "CAPS LOCK", and have the alternatives be centered "CONTROL" and "FUNCTION" (so lose the staggered ctrl, change the centered ctrl's legend to not be abbreviated, since it no longer needs to match the truncated one on the staggered key, and add a centered function).  Then you have all three legends available, and still have a staggered cap for boards that need it.

I like this idea, and I think thats a good change.

This is looking really good. Curious about POM. Why choose that, and what would one expect from it vs. ABS or PBT?

POM gives you a different feeling than the other plastics do, along with a different sound.

[holtenc]

1.25u row D for those 40% users. Looks like it's pretty much got the right sizes on other rows.

[mgsickler]

1.25u row D for those 40% users. Looks like it's pretty much got the right sizes on other rows.

What should the legend say for the 1.25 key? Seems like its doable.

[nuclear_wizard]

Is that a 7.5u spacebar in the initial kit? If we're looking to trim some fat to free up space for less common layouts, my vote would be to boot that first. What board even uses that long of a spacebar?

[holtenc]

1.25u row D for those 40% users. Looks like it's pretty much got the right sizes on other rows.

What should the legend say for the 1.25 key? Seems like its doable.

SHIF T.

[mgsickler]

Is that a 7.5u spacebar in the initial kit? If we're looking to trim some fat to free up space for less common layouts, my vote would be to boot that first. What board even uses that long of a spacebar?

On the bottom it’s 6.5, 7, 6.

6.5 for compatibility for Razer.

[nuclear_wizard]

Is that a 7.5u spacebar in the initial kit? If we're looking to trim some fat to free up space for less common layouts, my vote would be to boot that first. What board even uses that long of a spacebar?

On the bottom it’s 6.5, 7, 6.

6.5 for compatibility for Razer.

Ah okay thanks. Do you think Razer owners will be a big enough demographic for the new profile to justify the 6.5u key on it's own?

[mwahlig]

Nice! That'll help fill out a Planck a bit more.

Do you think a complete Planck kit will be offered in the future (including C raise/lower, D enter/shift, C esc, B tab, 2u space, etc)?

Really looking forward to trying these out, great work!

I need to figure out exactly how many keys need to be added for Ortho support. I think it could be a worth while kit add on, especially when I look at DSA Milkshake Ortho kits sold.

Give me some time to figure out how many keycaps are needed for Ortho.

Sounds great, thanks!

[mgsickler]

Is that a 7.5u spacebar in the initial kit? If we're looking to trim some fat to free up space for less common layouts, my vote would be to boot that first. What board even uses that long of a spacebar?

On the bottom it’s 6.5, 7, 6.

6.5 for compatibility for Razer.

Ah okay thanks. Do you think Razer owners will be a big enough demographic for the new profile to justify the 6.5u key on it's own?

Yes. There really isn’t any custom keycaps that are compatible with Razer, and it’s definitely one of the biggest keyboard markets. Definitely worth investing for the 1 space bar.

[nu_types]

POM? Yes pls.

[coffeeshopcoder]

how would this compare to MT3 ?
 is the surface area of the tops smaller or larger compared to SA and MT3 ?

[dvorcol]

how would this compare to MT3 ?
 is the surface area of the tops smaller or larger compared to SA and MT3 ?

A detailed comparison with other popular profiles would be really interesting.  Like what zFrontier did for their KAT and KAM (uniform KAT) profiles.  Their KAM page has a top view comparing home row surface dimensions with DSA's, while their KAT page has several images comparing sculpted profile with SA and Cherry. 

[a_ak57]

I'm gonna be blunt, I'm not really digging the fact that it's less cuppy than even SA profile now.  I'm too lazy to dig through the thread but I feel like at some point there was the idea of making the cups Topre Hipro-esque, which I think would be the way to go.

[ihalatch]

I'm gonna be blunt, I'm not really digging the fact that it's less cuppy than even SA profile now.  I'm too lazy to dig through the thread but I feel like at some point there was the idea of making the cups Topre Hipro-esque, which I think would be the way to go.

+1

[mgsickler]

I'm gonna be blunt, I'm not really digging the fact that it's less cuppy than even SA profile now.  I'm too lazy to dig through the thread but I feel like at some point there was the idea of making the cups Topre Hipro-esque, which I think would be the way to go.

The design of the actual keycaps is finished. We went through a couple renditions of 3D printed keycaps, and these feel really nice.

We brought the protos to several meetups, and really only heard positive feedback about the cup, and sculpt.

[tectonicplate]

My only suggestion for this project, since it is double-shot and will have to be engraved with no changes to be made to the mold, is to improve the font consistency over what signature plastics is doing. For the modifier keys, the font size, kerning, tracking, and horizontal scaling (condensed vs. extended font appearance) should be consistent over the entire keyset. If you look at SP's modifiers, they are all over the map in terms of font size, scaling, tracking, etc. When new keys are added, which needs a new mold, the weight of the font changes. None of this is really acceptable, but as hobbyists we live with it because there is no other option.

So my suggestion is to force the manu to adhere to consistency in the area of typography. If a larger text will not fit on a keycap, then it is better to reduce font size than to "squish" the font horizontal scaling or to radically change the tracking. In some cases abbreviation is better than changing the consistency of the sizing. All of the modifiers should have the same font size and properties unless there is a good reason why it needs to be changed, like single character modifiers which can be enlarged to maintain the same "visual weight" as the other key designs.

I can post pics if needed but all one has to do is look at the difference between renderings of SP SA keysets, and the actual keyset. The renders always look better because the designer can maintain font consistency.

Good luck with the project, wish you the best of luck.

Thats definitely the goal!

I agree, typographic refinement is often overlooked by many when it comes to legends. And if only one change could be made, please don't use to vastly overweight asterisk in the numrow or numpad… it crushes my soul every time. Looking forward to see where this goes. Thanks!

[Tefrem34]

R3 set option for ortho boards please!!!

[mgsickler]

Okay, here is our proposed final kit. There are a lot of changes, and we have coverage for almost all boards.

Ortho, 40's should be covered for the most part. If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.

[Ensaum]

Okay, here is our proposed final kit. There are a lot of changes, and we have coverage for almost all boards.

Ortho, 40's should be covered for the most part. If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.

Show Image

Are you still taking input on the coloway? I'd personally be elated to have a Honeywell option.

[Sintpinty]

This looks like a weird type of profile.

[mgsickler]

Okay, here is our proposed final kit. There are a lot of changes, and we have coverage for almost all boards.

Ortho, 40's should be covered for the most part. If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.

Show Image

Are you still taking input on the coloway? I'd personally be elated to have a Honeywell option.

Colorways aren’t really being thought about just yet.

[Hokabuki]

Really glad there is a 1u Backspace! Great compatibility overall.

[KevinSanToast]

I supposed ergodox support would be out of scope at this moment, huh.

[TuCZnak]

If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.

<insert obligatory ISO comment here>

[mgsickler]

I supposed ergodox support would be out of scope at this moment, huh.

Yea, thats a little intense to get done.

[Findecanor]

Ah okay thanks. Do you think Razer owners will be a big enough demographic for the new profile to justify the 6.5u key on it's own?

Hold on a minute. Razer BlackWidow and Huntsman have 6u space bars. They are not 6.5u.
There are however several other gaming brands that do use 6.5u space bars. For instance, Corsair.

Razer BlackWidow and other modern keyboards have a centred stem.
Some older Cherry keyboards in the G80 series have an off-centred stem however. It should be possible to support both: The Cherry-compatible key stem will clear the centred switch on the BlackWidow.
Some (if not all) Razer keyboards with 6u do have the stabiliser stems farther apart than others though. I am not sure about the Huntsman's measurements, but I know that at least older Razer BlackWidow do have stabiliser stems wider apart but they do use Costar-style stabilisers, so it might not matter that much.

While Razer BlackWidow is a very popular keyboard, I think that is primarily because of availability: as it has been widely available in retail, and an entry into mechanical keyboards for many people. Once they are in, they may want to buy a better one. Putting high-quality keycaps on a Razer keyboard (with wide stabilisers) would be like putting lipstick on a pig IMHO.

If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.

When the Space Bar is 6u then there are two 1u modifier keys in-between right Alt and right Control.
These are often Windows+Menu, Windows+Fn, Fn+Menu or Windows+Compose.

[mgsickler]

Hold on a minute. Razer BlackWidow and Huntsman have 6u space bars. They are not 6.5u.
There are however several other gaming brands that do use 6.5u space bars. For instance, Corsair.

Razer BlackWidow and other modern keyboards have a centred stem.
Some older Cherry keyboards in the G80 series have an off-centred stem however. It should be possible to support both: The Cherry-compatible key stem will clear the centred switch on the BlackWidow.
Some (if not all) Razer keyboards with 6u do have the stabiliser stems farther apart than others though. I am not sure about the Huntsman's measurements, but I know that at least older Razer BlackWidow do have stabiliser stems wider apart but they do use Costar-style stabilisers, so it might not matter that much.

While Razer BlackWidow is a very popular keyboard, I think that is primarily because of availability: as it has been widely available in retail, and an entry into mechanical keyboards for many people. Once they are in, they may want to buy a better one. Putting high-quality keycaps on a Razer keyboard (with wide stabilisers) would be like putting lipstick on a pig IMHO.

If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.

When the Space Bar is 6u then there are two 1u modifier keys in-between right Alt and right Control.
These are often Windows+Menu, Windows+Fn, Fn+Menu or Windows+Compose.

Thanks for the clarification on the spacebar. I will double check out mounts and make sure we are good to go on that front.

As far as the 1u keycaps, we have a good amount of 1u row c keycaps that will work for the space. It may not be the exact text, but it will be compatible with the sizing.

[Findecanor]

As far as the 1u keycaps, we have a good amount of 1u row c keycaps that will work for the space. It may not be the exact text, but it will be compatible with the sizing.

If you're not taking any more input, then why the hell do you ask!?

[mgsickler]

As far as the 1u keycaps, we have a good amount of 1u row c keycaps that will work for the space. It may not be the exact text, but it will be compatible with the sizing.

If you're not taking any more input, then why the hell do you ask!?

I’m not sure what’s with the hostility, but taking input does not mean automatically changing the kit.

I have to weigh out the pros and cons of adding additional keycaps. This kit will still work on those keyboards, and that’s the important part.

[a_ak57]

Kit looks pretty solid, I'm sure compatibility is missing here and there for some random keyboard but as I far as I can tell it covers the popular stuff.  And regarding colorways I second the notion of honeywell.  It's a safe colorway but not quite as tired as granite.

[moh18one]

Since some PCB and keyboards support 2*3U spacebars it would be great to have a second one in the kit (if it is doable). This new profile looks really promising!

[jazzjarred]

Okay, here is our proposed final kit. There are a lot of changes, and we have coverage for almost all boards.

Ortho, 40's should be covered for the most part. If you see something that is glaringly messed up, please let me know.

Show Image

For ortho support 2x1u + 1x2u spaces are pretty standard should be included:

https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/massdrop-x-mito-mt3-godspeed-custom-keycap-set/FP/A3ZZDXXgTZCxHJghGr9r_6%20-%20apollo%20ortho.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=crop&w=473&bg=f0f0f0&dpr=2

[Tefrem34]

Later down the road will there be an option to have a R3 kit made for us that use Ortho and none standard layouts?
Thanks.

[scoopbb]

row4 1u enter and row3 escape (instead of the caps lock, is that even present in any ortho kits?)

[sayingandparsing]

How thick are the caps planned to be? It would be nice to have more sets as thick as SA, or even more so, similar to Devlins. While that would increase the material price, thick caps tend to produce a much deeper thock.

[jortzii]

Somehow missed these until now, liking the look of the set so far.

I’d definitely be in for at least one kit, maybe more if there’s a sound test that really wows

[SargentRedbeard]

Seriously looking forward to this new profile!

[coffeeshopcoder]

How thick are the caps planned to be? It would be nice to have more sets as thick as SA, or even more so, similar to Devlins. While that would increase the material price, thick caps tend to produce a much deeper thock.

Yes thicker like Devlin would be nice !

[mgsickler]

Latest update

We have currently placed an order with our manu for a small test run of two keycaps. We are getting the "A" and "Caps Lock" keycaps made up to make sure the quality is what we want.

[iaman]

Latest update

We have currently placed an order with our manu for a small test run of two keycaps. We are getting the "A" and "Caps Lock" keycaps made up to make sure the quality is what we want.

Exciting!!!!

[pixelpusher]

Latest update

We have currently placed an order with our manu for a small test run of two keycaps. We are getting the "A" and "Caps Lock" keycaps made up to make sure the quality is what we want.

hmm... why didn't you have a space bar or enter key produced to check for warping?  I hope all goes well with the test run.  Always happy to see more options available for our hobby

[mgsickler]

Latest update

We have currently placed an order with our manu for a small test run of two keycaps. We are getting the "A" and "Caps Lock" keycaps made up to make sure the quality is what we want.

hmm... why didn't you have a space bar or enter key produced to check for warping?  I hope all goes well with the test run.  Always happy to see more options available for our hobby

Warping isnt as much of an issue (or as difficult to control) as making sure that legends are accurate and uniform.

[aslanxdeft]

Looks really promising 

[coffeeshopcoder]

looking good !
Would appreciate shots that show the thickness of the caps when the samples arrive !

[mgsickler]

looking good !
Would appreciate shots that show the thickness of the caps when the samples arrive !

Definitely will take some good shots once they arrive. Most likely looking at 10-12 weeks out.