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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => DIY Discussions ARCHIVE => Topic started by: msiegel on Sat, 10 October 2009, 14:04:26

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 10 October 2009, 14:04:26

cool ripster! it's a great day for keyboard hacking :D

the matrix looks nice and clean, so i'd say go for the spaghetti. remember, wire wrap got our astronauts to the moon :)

can you just friction-fit wires into the existing edge connector?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: AndrewZorn on Sat, 10 October 2009, 14:12:02

and i thought this idea had already materialized...

EDIT and i give up searching, and have to ask again... is the ebay pad itself (>2)KRO by itself?  i think i would be happy JUST using it, unmodified, if is could handle a couple keys at once.
would fit perfect on the left side of my hhkb, where there is plenty of wrist-rest space but nothing else to balance out with the mouse on the right.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 10 October 2009, 14:15:32

every time you post a comment, i feel like i'm being watched

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: AndrewZorn on Sat, 10 October 2009, 14:17:42

i am very bored, and pretty much check the main page for "Last Post" updates every couple minutes.

it has been this way for a while.

see, just like this.

EDIT or you are referring to the cat.
yeah, i know what you mean now.  disregard the previous info about having nothing better to do with my time...

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 10 October 2009, 14:18:48

i'm talking about the avatar, o great ceiling cat.

it's actually nice to have people around here at all hours... even if cats sometimes stare at my edit field ;)

btw, i've been leaving Forum Spy open in a tab, for when my brain needs a break from programming XD

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: nanu on Sat, 10 October 2009, 19:33:01

I would go the spaghetti wiring route.  The problem is interfacing to the header or PCB in a sane way.

Years ago, I bought an n52, but its keys were just that balky and no good that I had to kill the thing.  So then I made my own interconnect for the keys, using straight pins.  I can only guess they're zinc-plated steel, from a fabrics store.

I used some blister packaging, made three rows of holes for the ~17 leads, and carefully aligned the bent pins.  It was very tedious, I must say, to evenly friction-fit all pins at the same time.  Of course, prior to doing that I had to grind them into flat wedges with the Dremel, IIRC, so they would fit.  To keep it in place I slathered it all with epoxy.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5090&stc=1&d=1255220446)

I guess I would try the same thing even today because I dread soldering, but would use some sort of non-corrosive resin rather than plain old 5-minute epoxy.  Surprisingly, even with the clear epoxy turned yellow, I just plugged this custom arcade stick in and it seemingly works.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: nanu on Sat, 10 October 2009, 19:42:09

However, would the original housing even accommodate this and a tangle of wires?

Oh, I recall also that I had pre-attached leads on all of the pins and the heatshrink tubing, before mounting it on the scrap blister packaging.  To keep each the pins isolated and evenly spaced I wrapped the even ones with tape.  The fabricated connector was then given ample epoxy before I finalized it with the Dremel, for interfacing.

This is easily more work than anyone would dare try, I imagine.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: sixty on Sun, 11 October 2009, 02:14:39

I was actually shocked to see this as a rubber dome now. I was always under the impression that the n52 used cherry switches already - because I had seen several Koreans use the Filco WSAD on them.

Seems its all a mod too after all:

http://blog.daum.net/skycs/12846480

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Rajagra on Sun, 11 October 2009, 05:00:45

Quote from: msiegel;124340

every time you post a comment, i feel like i'm being watched

(http://www.g-ray.co.uk/pictures/ceiling_cat_is_watching_you.gif)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: AndrewZorn on Sun, 11 October 2009, 10:51:28

i like the topre switch a lot more than brown for games, myself
and havent even tried the hailed "gaming switches"
so i dont see brown being a good gaming-only switch
could be wrong
and it hasnt been long either

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: AndrewZorn on Sun, 11 October 2009, 12:42:23

okay (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2&pid=pdkb400w)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: AndrewZorn on Sun, 11 October 2009, 13:14:45

i was going to link straight to that image (for the DIP, of course)... but i thought if you hovered over the link for even a second it would be MORE obvious what you were about to get

and there are 6, not 8 switches
MODE0 MODE1 BACKSPACE LEFTFN FNALT POWER

should be able to recite them with minimal effort
i was

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: AndrewZorn on Sun, 11 October 2009, 14:02:06

i have no idea what you are talking about i repeatedly referred to pfu's documentation and found no note of said switch and i dont think they would lie to me so i simply disregard your post as erroneous the end

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 11 October 2009, 14:13:29

Quote from: Rajagra;124451

Show Image

(http://www.g-ray.co.uk/pictures/ceiling_cat_is_watching_you.gif)

:O gaaah!

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 13 October 2009, 13:00:37

Nice.  You could use the caps from the numpad, too, to keep the markings consistent with the originals from the Nostromo.  Well, except for the other four keys.  Hell, just get some blanks from elitekeyboards.  Go Otaku.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: ak_nala on Fri, 16 October 2009, 01:54:55

Quote from: ripster;124387

I am going to try that glue first since there's plenty of surface area on the membrane to glue to.  Gotta wait for the glue to come into stock.

Well, looks like there are other sources for the "Wire Glue", like here (http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/WG-1/CONDUCTIVE-GLUE-0.3-FL.OZ./-/1.html) and here. (http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp?pn=3035852&cm)

More interestingly, I found this little article on DIY conductive glue. (http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Conductive-Glue-and-Glue-a-Circuit/)

As it appears to be more flexible than the Wire Glue, it sounds ideal for those Model M mods I've been contemplating. Now were was that hack saw? ;)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Rajagra on Fri, 16 October 2009, 07:21:06

Quote from: ak_nala;125932

More interestingly, I found this little article on DIY conductive glue. (http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Conductive-Glue-and-Glue-a-Circuit/)

As it appears to be more flexible than the Wire Glue, it sounds ideal for those Model M mods I've been contemplating. Now were was that hack saw? ;)

The conductive thread (http://members.shaw.ca/ubik/thread/index.html) mentioned there looks useful too.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 19 October 2009, 08:22:18

That's interesting to hear about the Cherry clears.  How were they compared to browns and blues in terms of stiffness?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Mon, 19 October 2009, 09:44:23

Quote from: itlnstln;126821

That's interesting to hear about the Cherry clears.  How were they compared to browns and blues in terms of stiffness?

They're a bit stiffer than the blues. Its closer to a Cherry brown with a black spring.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: JBert on Mon, 19 October 2009, 09:49:44

I guess this also means they are harder to bottom out on?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Mon, 19 October 2009, 09:50:50

Quote from: JBert;126845

I guess this also means they are harder to bottom out on?

Yeah, I think they are probably the hardest to bottom out on of the most common switches.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: ak_nala on Wed, 21 October 2009, 02:58:09

Yikes. What a mess.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: lowpoly on Wed, 21 October 2009, 17:24:03

Quote from: ripster;127297

A little overpackaged.

LOL. Last time I bought some Microsoft licenses they were packed like this. A simple envelope would have been enough.

Too bad the glue doesn't work. Cutting the membrane and attaching some sort of clip should work. Like the clip found in a membrane connector.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 22 October 2009, 08:10:56

Could you use the conductive glue to attach the wires then use a little epoxy to shore up the hold?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Thu, 22 October 2009, 11:37:01

The one with the blue stem won't click unless its with a clicky leaf. Blues are kind of an oddity.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: JBert on Thu, 22 October 2009, 12:02:41

You mean the stiff spring will make the "clicker" stick to the keytop? Interesting...

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Thu, 22 October 2009, 12:13:11

Quote from: JBert;127619

You mean the stiff spring will make the "clicker" stick to the keytop? Interesting...

At least in my experience, without keeping the blue stem with its leaf, it will not click nearly as clearly or prominently.

But I could have a defective single blue switch or something.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 22 October 2009, 12:34:25

The casing and leaves should be the same for all Cherry switches.  Only the stems and springs should differ.  It helps keep costs down (and makes creating "custom" switches by modders a lot easier).

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Thu, 22 October 2009, 13:01:21

Quote from: itlnstln;127628

The casing and leaves should be the same for all Cherry switches.  Only the stems and springs should differ.  It helps keep costs down (and makes creating "custom" switches by modders a lot easier).

I don't know, but the blue switch I have only properly clicks with it's leaf.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Thu, 22 October 2009, 13:39:16

love the project!
as i dont have any reference to the sound of other keys other than my wifes simp black alps(wich are louder), can you please tell me if you think the whites are louder/quieter than the blues?
 will you please define 'Clicks like a locust swarm.' for me? :)
and most importantly- do you have whites or clears....? ;)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Thu, 22 October 2009, 14:25:23

lmao.
 do your kid(s) get pissed because you have their legos tied up all the time? & did you make the little keyboards?
the white/clear thing is to easy to do... because they look white!
thx for info. got another one- do u think alps simp blacks are louder/quieter than blues?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Thu, 22 October 2009, 14:41:09

Quote from: mike2h;127661

lmao.
 do your kid(s) get pissed because you have their legos tied up all the time? & did you make the little keyboards?
the white/clear thing is to easy to do... because they look white!
thx for info. got another one- do u think alps simp blacks are louder/quieter than blues?

Black ALPS are a tactile, non-clicky switch.
Blue Cherry's are tactile, clicky switches.

Clicky switches are louder than non-clicky switches.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Thu, 22 October 2009, 14:52:02

then why are my wifes black alps as loud/louder than my clears(whites:))? not diputing what you are saying, just that i know im hearing something.
it is true of either of us typing on both kb. maybe it is because the blacks have higher pitched sound, but they definetly have a sound going down & a louder sound coming up.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Thu, 22 October 2009, 15:16:27

Quote from: mike2h;127665

then why are my wifes black alps as loud/louder than my clears(whites:))? not diputing what you are saying, just that i know im hearing something.
it is true of either of us typing on both kb. maybe it is because the blacks have higher pitched sound, but they definetly have a sound going down & a louder sound coming up.

Most of the difference in sound level there is actually the design of the keyboard, not just the switches. Each keyboard sounds different. Among other things, keycaps can make a difference.

Really, tactile, non-clicky switches are generally very nearly silent. Bottoming out, the keycaps, and the keyboard make most of the difference in sound.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Thu, 22 October 2009, 15:29:00

so, from what you are saying the blues must be really loud. my clears vary in noise depending on how hard you hit them(obviously). they vary from virtually silent- fingers resting on the lightly& depressing to actuation, to fairly loud(as in can hear very clearly in my comp room & about 10ft down the hall) if i am gaming/ making feeble attempts to type fast like i am now. lol.
my wifes abs always makes some sort of noise, the variation of course depending on key hits. at loudest you can hear them all the way down the haal, about 20ft. as i said above i think this is probably more a function of the actual frequency of the noise than actuall db level.
anyway, the tihng im trying to get to is how much louder(assuming it is) that blue filco tenkeyless is going to be.

and ty for the info!

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 22 October 2009, 15:40:47

ALPS are generally noisy switches.  Black ALPS don't click by design, but due to the overall design, the do make some "rattling" noise and the slider has a "striker" pad designed to make more noise when you bottom out (which is easy to do with ALPS).  Cherry switches' sliders are in the switch, so they don't rattle like ALPS, and they are a lot easier to not bottom out on (especially blacks since they are so heavy), so you get a lot less noise than ALPS.
 
Also, a lot of older ALPS-based 'boards are not as inert as the newer ones, so the sound from the switches is amplified to a certain extent due to resonance.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Thu, 22 October 2009, 16:09:28

thx guys. i dont have a dell to calibrate with ripster.. want to send me one? ;)
 &that sound linky was awsome, have no idea why i havent used that resource before. after listening to that, am considering the blues over browns, that little bit of 'tinnyness' will irritate me after a while. kinda like the alps.
i assume the mic levels were the same on all tests? & i agree with your assesment of the sound with the 'clears' vs the browns.
the abs is a nice board with very nice 'feel', especially for getting it for $48 delivered. however that high pitched component gets to me after my wife has been typing for awhile. that doesnt happen to often so no real problem.
since she agreed that she doesnt really need numpad at home i think she will be much better off ergonomically & happier with the cherry switches. not that she is complaining at all, in fact she gives me funny looks when i mention getting yet anothe kb. the thing is i KNOW whats best for her in these matters & im just going to have to make the sacrifice & get her that filco.
for her own good of course...

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Thu, 22 October 2009, 16:21:16

Quote from: mike2h;127680

thx guys. i dont have a dell to calibrate with ripster.. want to send me one? ;)
 &that sound linky was awsome, have no idea why i havent used that resource before. after listening to that, am considering the blues over browns, that little bit of 'tinnyness' will irritate me after a while. kinda like the alps.
i assume the mic levels were the same on all tests? & i agree with your assesment of the sound with the 'clears' vs the browns.
the abs is a nice board with very nice 'feel', especially for getting it for $48 delivered. however that high pitched component gets to me after my wife has been typing for awhile. that doesnt happen to often so no real problem.
since she agreed that she doesnt really need numpad at home i think she will be much better off ergonomically & happier with the cherry switches. not that she is complaining at all, in fact she gives me funny looks when i mention getting yet anothe kb. the thing is i KNOW whats best for her in these matters & im just going to have to make the sacrifice & get her that filco.
for her own good of course...

Good luck with that. (I mean because Elite Keyboards doesn't have them in stock).

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Thu, 22 October 2009, 16:32:08

cant do anything till after xmas anyway. so np.
 just did a major upgrade to both our comps & built a comp for win hs out of the spare parts. so even hinting at spending any money related to computers would be pretty stupid on my part.
though i am squirreling some $$ away so i can upgrade from 4gig to 8gig on my comp. just got figure a way to order it without her finding out...  lol.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Thu, 22 October 2009, 16:57:49

Quote from: mike2h;127683

cant do anything till after xmas anyway. so np.
 just did a major upgrade to both our comps & built a comp for win hs out of the spare parts. so even hinting at spending any money related to computers would be pretty stupid on my part.
though i am squirreling some $$ away so i can upgrade from 4gig to 8gig on my comp. just got figure a way to order it without her finding out...  lol.

Really, what is the point of 8 GB of ram? I say this as a person who likes to run 2GB of ram in Windows without a pagefile.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: msiegel on Thu, 22 October 2009, 17:54:55

Quote from: timw4mail;127694

Really, what is the point of 8 GB of ram? I say this as a person who likes to run 2GB of ram in Windows without a pagefile.

i run server daemons on my main machine which intermittently consume a lot of memory... i could totally use 4GB+, instead of the 1GB i have now XD

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Thu, 22 October 2009, 17:58:48

then you arent doing much on your comp & hopefully you are just kidding.
i assume you are running xp. xp, unless you turn of lots of services & dont have any progs on your system that load with windows- like drivers, virus & malware prot, and any number of other things that can of course be disabled from startup, will take up 30-40% of that ram just being on. now if all your doing is word proccessing & browsing the internet you are probably fine. but if u use any sort of app that requires any mem usage & have your page file turned of-there is absolutely no legit reason to do this- make the size fixed, yes(xp isnt that great at manging pagefile size) but turning it of makes no sense whatsoever- you are getting slowdowns.
i have seen this claim many times & it always turns out the person doesnt do hardly anything on their comp &/or just doesnt know how to recognise slow downs due to win not having enough mem let alone pagefile.
just so im not misunderstood, 2 gig is fine on any comp that isnt doing anything very intensive. having pagefile turned of under any circumstance(even if u got 12 gig ram u still want some sort of pagefile) is ill-advised & has no legit reason whatsoeveri know this post may sound like some sort of personal attack, it isnt. like i said above, i have run into this type of thing many times, & the person doing it is usually mis-informed(98%) or stupid. i know you are definetly not the second:).
bty, if you are happy with your comps perf, no worries.

to answer your question, i game a lot &  do some occasional photo editing. if you are doing anything besides basic tasks you cant have to much ram. you may have more than you really need, but that causes no problems, not having enough does cause problems.
os still being 32 bit is ridiculous, this were most of peoles misunderstanding of ram comes from. 32 bit win can only address around 3.4 gigs(this amount can vary between 3.3-3.6 depending on who u talk to), this also includes any meem on your vid card. so u can see where people going from 2 gig ram to gig ram generally get little perf boost. i stayed with 2gig until i went 64 bit.
the other thing that people get confused on is - if you have a lot of ram windows wont use pagefile- this was never true in 32 bit win(for reasons stated above) & isnt true in vista64 or win7 64. the os will definetly use pagefile a LOT less with more ram(meaning yopu can manualy set your pagefile to a much smaller fixed size), but it will use it sometimes regardless of how much ram you have. & there are programs like photoshop were u HAVE to have pagefile no matter how much ram u have.
bottom line, as long as your os can address it, you can never have to much ram- within the context of what you do with your comp of course;)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: msiegel on Thu, 22 October 2009, 18:06:28

i'm running mac os x, which has automatic paging. all sorts of apps are used on the machine. much of the time it has about 20% memory free :) but it's brutal if it starts swapping.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: msiegel on Thu, 22 October 2009, 18:19:16

Quote from: ripster;127705

Gee, I walk away for a bit and now you guys are posting about how many GBs of memory you use?

err..... sorry, it was a trap
:)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Thu, 22 October 2009, 19:40:52

what u get for walking away & leaving us unattended.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Thu, 22 October 2009, 20:46:02

For what it's worth, I do a LOT of multitasking and gaming on Windows 7. I currently use 4GB of ram, and I don't see a need for more. I've been running with no pagefile for years. Hasn't hurt me yet.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Thu, 22 October 2009, 23:04:41

lol. is it 4gb of ram or 2gb of ram? u may think running with no pagefile hasnt hurt your performance but you would be wrong.
i dont get why you actually go in and disable it. there is absolutely no reason to & every reason not to.
but whatever makes you happy is cool.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 23 October 2009, 06:18:05

Quote from: mike2h;127747

lol. is it 4gb of ram or 2gb of ram? u may think running with no pagefile hasnt hurt your performance but you would be wrong.
i dont get why you actually go in and disable it. there is absolutely no reason to & every reason not to.
but whatever makes you happy is cool.

My point has been that I run 4GB of memory without any need for virtual memory.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 23 October 2009, 09:02:26

Quote from: ripster;127797

Derailments Are NEVER Pretty!

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5335&stc=1&d=1256306096)

Except when they have double-shot keycaps.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 23 October 2009, 10:18:10

Is one of those trains an Amtrak?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Fri, 23 October 2009, 11:12:27

Quote from: timw4mail;127775

My point has been that I run 4GB of memory without any need for virtual memory.

no your point is, that you run either 2gb(your original post on this subject) or 4gb of ram with you having disabled pagefile. doesnt mean you dont need it- you do for best perf- just that for whatever reason you choose to run your comp without something that helps the perf of your comp & has no downside.
anyway, i have had this discussion countless times withh people & they either do some research & turn pagefile back on or stay with what they have for no real reason other than sheer stubborness.
anyway sorry for the trainwreck,  &those trains are cool:)
how do you make any progress on your project when you are staging all these 'scenes'? lol

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 23 October 2009, 11:44:08

Quote from: mike2h;127821

just that for whatever reason you choose to run your comp without something that helps the perf of your comp & has no downside.

Actually, I have been really hard disk space limited in the past. (There was one point when I had 8GB of space, on two 4GB hard drives, running XP) And the pagefile does take up space on the hard disk. And actually, I'm not running without a pagefile, last I checked.

On topic... Have you decided what switches you are actually going to use, Ripster?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Fri, 23 October 2009, 12:18:31

Quote from: ripster;127822

Yes.  I think it's the MIKE2 or TIM4 model.

I can't remember.  Must not have enough memory.

lmao.
actually it would be lack of pagefile slowing your thought proccess. ;)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Fri, 23 October 2009, 13:21:34

depends on what you like, but overall id say no. fyi im a strategy  & rpg fan so my perspective is biased.
i replaced my nostromo with a fang gamepad, i just noticed that the keys on the fang actually have some stiff resistance( this forum has twisted my brain- now i actually 'feel' the key action whenever i press keys on anything) at first then just give away. think im going to have to open it up unless one of you guys can tell me its just some rubber dome variation.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 23 October 2009, 13:34:10

Quote from: mike2h;127871

depends on what you like, but overall id say no. fyi im a strategy  & rpg fan so my perspective is biased.
i replaced my nostromo with a fang gamepad, i just noticed that the keys on the fang actually have some stiff resistance( this forum has twisted my brain- now i actually 'feel' the key action whenever i press keys on anything) at first then just give away. think im going to have to open it up unless one of you guys can tell me its just some rubber dome variation.

Please, please, use capital letters.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: msiegel on Fri, 23 October 2009, 13:46:24

Quote from: timw4mail;127882

Please, please, use capital letters.

all lowercase and no newlines makes homer something something

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Fri, 23 October 2009, 13:49:09

look, im still learning to type. i have a messed up rt arm that gives me grief typing. right now im just trying to get my speed up so i spend less time typing, thereby reducing discomfort levels.
 i basically use one finger from each hand, i am trying to use more fingers, but at this point remembering to hit the caps key is not high on my priority list.
sorry if it offends you or anybody else.
for me any of the left hand pinky keys are a problem, i broke a cpl of knuckles & fingers when i was younger & my left pinky kinda points a little crooked. anyway, at this point it is what it is, if my lack of caps offends you or anybody elses' sense of propriety please dont read my posts. frankly, im tired of hearing about it. if, in 6-8 months my typing hasnt further improved to yours or anybody else's satisfaction please give me a 'nudge' because that means ive been slacking. otherwise pls follow above advice.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Fri, 23 October 2009, 14:17:45

Quote from: msiegel;127886

all lowercase and no newlines makes homer something something

hopefully this was meant in good fun. otherwise the implication is becauae i dont type up to certain standards im an idiot. homer is an idiot after all...
im sure you didnt mean it that way, but sometimes people need to think before they make quick, snippy comments. guilty of it myself.

& thx ripster, maybe i am to sensitive about it(i do hate to be bad at anything:)), but it is someting im working on, its just that age & pain make it a much slower proccess than what i(& others) would like. very frustrating.
do appreciate you guys getting me on the 'path to enlightenment' though. ;)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Fri, 23 October 2009, 14:32:56

aint that the truth.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 23 October 2009, 14:40:20

Quote from: mike2h;127903

hopefully this was meant in good fun. otherwise the implication is becauae i dont type up to certain standards im an idiot. homer is an idiot after all...
im sure you didnt mean it that way, but sometimes people need to think before they make quick, snippy comments. guilty of it myself.

& thx ripster, maybe i am to sensitive about it(i do hate to be bad at anything:)), but it is someting im working on, its just that age & pain make it a much slower proccess than what i(& others) would like. very frustrating.
do appreciate you guys getting me on the 'path to enlightenment' though. ;)

I don't mean to make it an insult, it's just that it makes things a lot easier to read if you have capital letters beginning your sentences. Before I learned to properly type, I still used capital letters and periods for all my sentences. (Although this was before I had access to an internet connection. And I'm only 19, so before you think I'm old...)

I don't want to seem overly jaded, but seeing sentences all run together without capital letters reminds me too much of unintelligible IM speak. Even if I'm typing on my iPod touch, I still like to use complete sentences with capital letters and appropriate punctuation.

Now that we've had our rants with each other...

Ripster, how's this mod actually coming along? Or are you spending too much time photographing legos?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: J888www on Fri, 23 October 2009, 14:46:31

Hey Mike2h, you should drink some warm amber nectar, like the liquid stuff in my IBM mug. It'll certainly calm your aggravated ego, it tastes quite nice too.  :tea:

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Fri, 23 October 2009, 14:50:22

pass it on over. of course i would like your definition of 'warm amber nectar'.
has more to do with frustration than ego.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Fri, 23 October 2009, 14:52:40

lol, think i asked that same question myself earlier in the thread. ripster must have a lot of free time on his hands. he is very entertaining.

i posted a query earlier about my fang gamepad keys, anybody have a clue or you going to make me brea.. ah disassemble it.

 fyi tim, my girlfiends did my typing in college for me some 20 years ago(didnt go till i was 30) my so called 'typing skills' were developed through im & posting in tech forums over the last 10 years. you know how that goes. so i am unlearning while learning.
and of course you are right about appropriate sentence structure. 'tis a work in progress:)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 23 October 2009, 14:55:58

Quote from: J888www;127916

Hey Mike2h, you should drink some warm amber nectar, like the liquid stuff in my IBM mug. It'll certainly calm your aggravated ego, it tastes quite nice too. :tea:

I would love to have a cup of apple cider (especially if it's spiked).
 
 
Wait... Don't you pee in your IBM mug (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=125548&postcount=8)???

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Fri, 23 October 2009, 15:05:11

lol, what i was wondering..
being warm kind of rules out a nice brown ale. could be a nice single malt or small batch bourbon, or your suggestion. but i keep coming back to the pee thing. ;)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Fri, 23 October 2009, 15:33:59

lmao.
hope it works. what keys you deide on? the reds.. or did you already answer that?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Sat, 24 October 2009, 11:32:04

great work ripster.
 so when are you going to start mass production?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Hofy on Sat, 24 October 2009, 13:33:26

"When" I get some spare time I will have to try this with the old Nostromo N50 I have sitting on the shelf.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Rajagra on Sat, 24 October 2009, 16:45:00

Quote from: Hofy;128035

"When" I get some spare time I will have to try this with the old Nostromo N50 I have sitting on the shelf.

Just remember the N50 didn't have n-key rollover.
I wonder if adding diodes would help or just confuse it.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: kyamei on Sat, 24 October 2009, 17:54:17

Could you post a shot of the wiring across the switches?  I got a spare n52 laying around so I want to try doing this too.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: JBert on Sun, 25 October 2009, 13:53:45

Why are you listing some guy's keyboards collection? Sure, he has a N52 and double-shot keys on his keyboard, but I don't see the point. :yawn:

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Sun, 25 October 2009, 14:26:00

Quote from: JBert;128164

Why are you listing some guy's keyboards collection? Sure, he has a N52 and double-shot keys on his keyboard, but I don't see the point. :yawn:

Don't forget the $2 bill.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Rajagra on Sun, 25 October 2009, 16:10:39

Quote from: timw4mail;128169

Don't forget the $2 bill.

What a cheapskate!

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 26 October 2009, 08:39:18

Damn, that font Cherry uses on their keys is butt-ugly.  I would love to buy a 'board to harvest some double-shots from, but that font kills me.  All it would need is sharp edges on the end of the letters.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Mon, 26 October 2009, 08:51:12

Quote from: itlnstln;128328

Damn, that font Cherry uses on their keys is butt-ugly.  I would love to buy a 'board to harvest some double-shots from, but that font kills me.  All it would need is sharp edges on the end of the letters.

Matter of preference. I like the rounded letters.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Mon, 26 October 2009, 12:46:21

why not use reds on q & e? you use then for strafing so the same reason you used reds on wasd should apply. jmo.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Mon, 26 October 2009, 13:49:19

guess i should have looked above. duh. i post/use several tech forums so i tend to do a lot of drive bys as i dont always have time to read everything im interested in. please have patience.
that & i forget way to easily. lol.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 27 October 2009, 07:51:48

While she didn't shave the key stems, IIRC, Chloe did cut the springs in the switches of several of her keyboards to lower the resistance.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Tue, 27 October 2009, 07:54:18

Quote from: itlnstln;128534

While she didn't shave the key stems, IIRC, Chloe did cut the springs in the switches of several of her keyboards to lower the resistance.

How does making the spring shorter lower the resistance? I thought the more coils the spring had, generally the easier to bend it.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 27 October 2009, 07:57:26

There's less travel to activate the switch, thus less force it takes to compress the spring that far.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mike2h on Tue, 27 October 2009, 22:42:24

dont think that is true. the distance traveled has nothing to do with 'force' required to compress the spring- unless the spring is designed to offer different resistance at different points of compression.
since there is a smaller distance to push the key that could be perceived as a 'lighter' switch, but it would be just that, a perception. the force needed to compress the spring is stils the same - just less distance. with the above mentioned caveat applied of course.

how is the mod coming ripster? had enpough time to test yet?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: sixty on Tue, 27 October 2009, 23:54:22

Where did you get Cherry reds from ripster? Or did you just put brown springs into black switches?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 28 October 2009, 02:01:01

Quote from: ripster;128697

And check this.  7 key rollover (all 7 keys recognized) on USB.

How they do that?

One was Alt!

Had me going there.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Wed, 28 October 2009, 07:46:52

Quote from: ripster;128696

Sidenote: I also stuffed it with one of the heavier elements in the periodic table currently banned in California.  This thing now weighs almost a pound, more than most rubber dome keyboards.

If that refers to lead, I still don't understand the big fuss about it...lead really is only bad for you if you ingest it. It's not good for you, but I don't think it's quite as poisonous as they make it out to be.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 28 October 2009, 07:57:22

You can absorb lead through your skin (Fiestaware, anyone?), too, but it does have a more immediate effect if you ingest it.
 
Mmm... paint chips.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 29 October 2009, 08:05:04

Does the keycap on the "orange button" interfere with the D-pad at all?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: NeoDiNardo on Sun, 01 November 2009, 10:40:32

well its nice to see a post related to what I am struggling with for sure. However, which games did you test it with? FPS? MMO? RTS? I think that makes the difference. And I am not convinced that a gaming keypad is the same as playing on a qwerty keyboard. But very good to hear another vote for the browns.

I am basically down to these keyboards:

The Tenkeyless Filco Cherry Blue

The Tenkeyless Filco Cherry Brown

The Deck Tactile Legend

So my forum browsing here tells me that Browns are very light, perhaps too light. And that Blacks are too stiff for typing and have no real tactile feel. I want some tactile feel. So the Clears where nice in that they straddled the issue. But I am still thinking. I want to order today though. All my other parts are coming in soon.

So ripster, you hated the clears completly huh?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Mon, 02 November 2009, 10:06:15

Omg, pure awesomeness man.  I didn't notice this thread since I wasn't reading the forum much when you posted.  I've been wanting to do this since forever.  Blows me away man.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Mon, 02 November 2009, 10:12:36

This is also really educational in how to convert any rubber dome into a mechanical. Really amazing.  I haven't read the entire thread yet, do the lengths of the wires matter?  Any more detail on the wiring you did and any problems you had?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Mon, 02 November 2009, 10:18:30

I found the detail on page 7.  Yeah I saw the kbmania mod, before which is why I wanted to try it, but not very helpful in so far as a how to that I could follow.  This is truly amazing.  What caused you to burn out the diodes you think?  Misswiring or something else?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 02 November 2009, 10:33:54

Quote from: ripster;129907

I also know why even Topre seems to have a hard time keeping keys perfectly aligned. We are talking tenths of a mm tolerances here.

Exactly, even the slightest misalignment in a switch could show it self greatly on a longer key like Shift or Space.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Mon, 02 November 2009, 10:43:11

Quote from: ripster;129907

I  assume the heat although I was very very surprised.  I haven't burnt out a diode in ages.  This mod is pretty safe to the controller as far as I can tell since I had lots of shorts on that connector as I attempted to solder to those 17 or whatever pins.

Only other advice I have is to go slow and test frequently.  I had one ribbon connector I replaced since all the flexing broke one of the wires.

I also know why even Topre seems to have a hard time keeping keys perfectly aligned.  We are talking tenths of a mm tolerances here.

Yeah I had the same problem when I converted that hhk light to acer switches, the first kb mod I did here on the forums, the holes I cut out just didn't work and I had to canabalize the original acer I stole the switches from and put the plastic into the hhk light so the switches would seat properly cause the holes I cut just didn't hold the switches solidly enough.  

  Anyway really impressed.  I may try this with a n52te so I can get it to be clicky. lol  I like the internal programmable memory of them a lot more so you don't have to set up the software and junk except on one computer.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 02 November 2009, 11:00:42

I just dug out a couple of old N50s - the 10 key version. I could do something like this with them.

(I also found a MS sidewinder strategic commander! It's like a big plastic slug. Was hoping it was a rare and valuable item, but ebay prices say otherwise.)

Quote from: itlnstln;129918

I hated all the programming software that came with the N52.  I just created a profile with what keys the N52 mapped to (I hated that the default had Caps Lock mapped), and I just remapped each game in the game's settings.  That way, I wouldn't have to remember to load various profiles, or whatever.

Edit> I misunderstood this first time - I thought you were doing what I do with my N52te - I can program in some standardised profiles into the onboard memory (using the shift states) and can then plug it into any PC without the software, and select a shift state/profile to match the game.

The N52 software was more versatile - in fact many people removed the controller from the N52 and put it in the N52te.
I chose not to do that because the Dpad and scroll wheel kept going offline on my N52, I think it was a software issue.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 02 November 2009, 11:04:00

I hated all the programming software that came with the N52.  I just created a profile with what keys the N52 mapped to (I hated that the default had Caps Lock mapped), and I just remapped each game in the game's settings.  That way, I wouldn't have to remember to load various profiles, or whatever.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Mon, 02 November 2009, 11:33:20

Quote from: ripster;129916

I didn't know the new N52s had programmable memory!  Maybe Topre can learn a thing or two from Belkin about this.  DIP switches in 2009 - Inconceivable!

Yeah the te's are really a step above the normal n52's.  They cost more than twice as much on ebay now though.  You can get normal n52's pretty cheap now, so this mod definitely has merit.  The keys are almost good enough too not to need replacing, they're also a ton above the normal n52 keys, but still not mechanicals, or clickies.  It might be worth the extra nanosecond or two of response in some games to make them mechanical.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 02 November 2009, 12:15:07

Quote from: ripster;129923

What's the Dpad like on the te though?  They look kinda funky.  Also, the advantage of the Cherry Reds is you can rest on the activation point and spam like crazy.

I don't use it for moving, just as 4 extra keys (I ignore the 4 diagonal positions.) I'd have to find my N52 (non te) to compare the feel.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Mon, 02 November 2009, 12:42:44

Quote from: ripster;129923

What's the Dpad like on the te though?  They look kinda funky.  Also, the advantage of the Cherry Reds is you can rest on the activation point and spam like crazy.

It's basically the same as the normal n52, but it adds a little hat so you can use it like a joystick if you want instead of just a pad.  You can remove the little circular hat though so it's the same as the old one.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Mon, 02 November 2009, 13:21:49

Quote from: ripster;129950

I'm just curious your guys impressions.  It's only $50 at Walmart, Where America Shops so I could always pick one up if I wanted LEDs.

Did they fix the round thumb button too?

The one above the thumbpad? It's still round..what do you mean fix it?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 03 November 2009, 02:59:29

Hmm,  I don't think the button on my n52 is ridiculously stiff, maybe it was just something to do with the one you had.  The one on the n52te definitely isn't.

The problems with most other gamepads in my experience has always been the drivers.  Most of them suck.  I really love the te's driver and editor.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: ricercar on Sun, 08 November 2009, 21:56:03

now you guys are making me want to take apart my Nostromo 50. No particu\ar reason, just thegeneral inability to resist a hardWare projec+.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 10 November 2009, 18:18:54

Quote from: ripster;131066

Here's a pic of the innards of the N52te.  The good news is you could get leads to the pads easily and not have to deal with the connector and spaghetti wiring.  The bad news is it looks a little tight for Cherry Keys  even if you sunk the PCB down as far as you could into the base.

Show Image

(http://i.techrepublic.com.com/gallery/217718.jpg)

Source:   link (http://content.techrepublic.com.com/2346-13636_11-217706-1.html?tag=content;leftCol)

Actually, I would just remove the PCB and go back to the Spaghetti route.  But you'd lose the pretty leds.

Show Image

(http://i.techrepublic.com.com/gallery/217722.jpg)

Other than that and the LEDs you see on the PCB it looks identical in design.  No metal plate but lead would take care of that.

Oh wow!!  I have 3 of them but never took them apart.  No wonder they're so much better they're conductive rubber switches like the new siig minitouch plus or btc compacts that I used for my steampunk board. Yeah I could do a steampunk type mod to it easy!!

That would be super wicked now that I think about it, a steampunked n52te. lol   I even have the extra keycaps for it from my first one.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 10 November 2009, 21:01:44

lol

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Rajagra on Tue, 10 November 2009, 21:20:09

Quote from: ripster;131618

All that hard work paid off.

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5631&stc=1&d=1257908073)

Modern Warfare 2 - Game Rankings Avg Review, N=20  95.02% (http://www.gamerankings.com/xbox360/951944-call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2/index.html)

Wonder how they got the idea for the cover picture.

Edit> Ouch. I was getting to buy it then I read the Amazon reviews. Shorter than normal 1-player mode and gimped online mode. I saw a comment "Activision are the new EA", seems spot on. THAT attitude is what's killing PC gaming. I spent over 2K on a gaming PC last year and all I've really played on it is Crysis. :-(  I can't even get Crysis 2 because I object to the limited number of installs and the way the copy protection scheme interferes with the PC's operation. I'll dig out Far Cry, I never played that through.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: AndrewZorn on Wed, 11 November 2009, 06:28:47

PC gaming is still dying, and MW2 is part of the problem.  did you not yet notice you are playing a console game on a PC, not a PC game?  have you joined in on the 9v9 max, unmoddable, P2P room-to-room-fun multiplayer?
EDIT nevermind, i forgot what the EA rep said, about the significant changes made for the PC version... MOUSE CONTROLS, GRAPHICAL OPTIONS, IN-GAME TEXT CHAT...

L4D2 isnt helping either.  valve releases a great game, with which they promise all sorts of new content... LEVELS, CHARACTERS, AND WEAPONS... what happens?  a year later, they re-release the same thing, but with different LEVELS, CHARACTERS, AND WEAPONS... and charge $50 all over again!  fans get mad, so they release HALF of ONE level for all those suckers that bought #1.  split community, etc.

its funny that the type of games keeping PC gaming alive are not even making much money.  quake live, for instance.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 11 November 2009, 16:51:37

Quote from: AndrewZorn;131662

PC gaming is still dying, and MW2 is part of the problem.  did you not yet notice you are playing a console game on a PC, not a PC game?  have you joined in on the 9v9 max, unmoddable, P2P room-to-room-fun multiplayer?
EDIT nevermind, i forgot what the EA rep said, about the significant changes made for the PC version... MOUSE CONTROLS, GRAPHICAL OPTIONS, IN-GAME TEXT CHAT...

L4D2 isnt helping either.  valve releases a great game, with which they promise all sorts of new content... LEVELS, CHARACTERS, AND WEAPONS... what happens?  a year later, they re-release the same thing, but with different LEVELS, CHARACTERS, AND WEAPONS... and charge $50 all over again!  fans get mad, so they release HALF of ONE level for all those suckers that bought #1.  split community, etc.

its funny that the type of games keeping PC gaming alive are not even making much money.  quake live, for instance.

Yeah I didn't like the first l4d, I really disliked the difference between the level difficulties.  At the highest setting it was like impossible to get through a level, with like constant unrealistic wave after wave of zombies coming at you out of nowhere, then one setting down, it was like practically no zombies at all.  I only played through 1 campaign of the 4 before I quit.  I disliked how the campaigns were all separated too.  The basic design in the game was just off imo.  It was no surprise to me when they sacked it.  I really had high hopes too, I love zombie games and movies.   I guess I'll try the second one, but probably won't be buying it.  How are you playing it?  Early release or pirated or something?  I thought it didn't come out till the 17th?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 11 November 2009, 17:03:59

Quote from: AndrewZorn;131662

PC gaming is still dying, and MW2 is part of the problem.  did you not yet notice you are playing a console game on a PC, not a PC game?  have you joined in on the 9v9 max, unmoddable, P2P room-to-room-fun multiplayer?
EDIT nevermind, i forgot what the EA rep said, about the significant changes made for the PC version... MOUSE CONTROLS, GRAPHICAL OPTIONS, IN-GAME TEXT CHAT...

L4D2 isnt helping either.  valve releases a great game, with which they promise all sorts of new content... LEVELS, CHARACTERS, AND WEAPONS... what happens?  a year later, they re-release the same thing, but with different LEVELS, CHARACTERS, AND WEAPONS... and charge $50 all over again!  fans get mad, so they release HALF of ONE level for all those suckers that bought #1.  split community, etc.

its funny that the type of games keeping PC gaming alive are not even making much money.  quake live, for instance.

pc games are still thriving when related to the web.  Some flash games have become really well developed and fun to play as well.  I've killed thousands of hours playing different flash games on the web. lol

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 11 November 2009, 17:04:42

Quote from: ripster;131810

Demo.  No more waves.

PC Gaming Limps Along!

Show Image

(http://www.vermario.com/splunge/wp-content/lego011.jpg)

not my pic

cool lol

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 11 November 2009, 17:13:32

They made zombie legos? lol  Have they broken down and made military legos yet?  They have all kinds of legos that kill people and junk, but they'll never make military ones? lol

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: AndrewZorn on Fri, 13 November 2009, 10:02:13

i havent even played the demo, i dont need to know, valve already admitted, "the same... but MORE!"

and i loved L4D, as well as the at-first-impossible hardest difficulty

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 13 November 2009, 10:37:35

Quote from: AndrewZorn;132128

i havent even played the demo, i dont need to know, valve already admitted, "the same... but MORE!"

and i loved L4D, as well as the at-first-impossible hardest difficulty

The characters don't seem as memorable, but the melee weapons in L4D2 are worth it. Seeing zombies split with a machete, and spill blood...

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: AndrewZorn on Fri, 13 November 2009, 13:04:59

Quote from: ripster;132146

Here's the best review of MW2 I've seen yet.  Arstechnica. (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2009/11/dancing-with-the-devil-ars-reviews-modern-warfare-2-pc.ars)   Unlike those stupid gaming sites or gaming forums, they can write AND know their stuff.  I pretty much agree with everything the guy says (and yeah,  lots of PC copies left at my retailer).

PC Gaming is dying fast if this is any indication.

My next mod is gonna be Red Cherries on a PS3 Controller - Uncharted 2: Among Theives is in the mail!

tell me how that mod goes... i really want to replace mine!  i was just reading the other day about using plastic discs to reinforce and 'stiffen' PSP buttons and dpad, from street fighter enthusiasts... but an actual SWITCH replacement would be awesome

skimming through, your review seems to be what i expected... still fun, but ruined for that "ill still be playing this in 6 years" part

here is the best article on the matter i have found
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/104/1044701p1.html

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: AndrewZorn on Fri, 13 November 2009, 13:43:42

oh yeah, they are all membrane... just like the psp EDIT now that the images are up, are you showing that it is one HUGE membrane?  the PSP just has two little rubber pieces, each containing 4 rubber domes, to connect the contacts below on the PCB... like the 360 controller, i guess.
but as a best-you-can-do-easily type mod, the plastic disc thing supposedly helps a lot, i am going to do it to my psp as soon as i can find a suitable material (ive already opened it several times, im not worried about that)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 13 November 2009, 14:23:21

How about ML switches?  I bet they are still too big, though.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Mon, 16 November 2009, 10:39:25

Quote from: ripster;132845

P.S.  Uncharted 2 is a great game.  Plus, the babe is named..... Chloe!

Show Image

(http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/102/1026373/uncharted-2-among-thieves-20090918014133368.jpg)

this pic is for examining pixels only! :biggrin1:

Can you say no anti-aliasing? Yech.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: timw4mail on Mon, 16 November 2009, 11:00:57

Quote from: ripster;132861

Why am I not surprised......

Because it's a pixel-related gaming comment?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 16 November 2009, 15:40:57

I just remembered I have a Steam account, so I downloaded HalfLife2, Counterstrike Source, to my newest PC. The video stress test at 1920x1200 4xAA runs at 275fps. Doesn't really make the games better though.
That machine is overpowered and underused, sadly.

(Crysis can still bring it to its knees with the highest settings though.)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Arc'xer on Tue, 17 November 2009, 17:46:06

Quote from: Rajagra;132966

I just remembered I have a Steam account, so I downloaded HalfLife2, Counterstrike Source, to my newest PC. The video stress test at 1920x1200 4xAA runs at 275fps. Doesn't really make the games better though.
That machine is overpowered and underused, sadly.

(Crysis can still bring it to its knees with the highest settings though.)

Actually, it does make a difference. Your monitor might not display all those frames but the feel of the game will certainly be different. Considering most people are running with 60Hz LCDs not many use the new 120Hz LCDs like the Samsung 2233rz or Viewsonic 2265/68 and fewer yet have high-end CRTs with 100-200Hz refresh rates. You may not see all the other frames but aside from the feel remember CSS works similar to CS 1.6. If you run at 100 FPS in 1.6 your registration will be a lot better than using a lower number. Since the GoldSRC and Source are both modded quake engines the frame rate calculates the data of your and your enemies position.

And ignore people who say the human eye can only see X amount. The human eye is constantly streaming, it's the monitor that is unable to provide more frames per second.

Plus, certain games do benefit from a lot higher frames per second. Quake engine games are a good example. Pretty much any game that has FPS-dependent physics like Call of Duty will allow you to use your framerate to an advantage.

For example in CoD setting com_maxfps to 125, 250, 333, 666, 999/1000(at 400/500 you become heavier) will let you run faster, shoot faster, bounce from certain surfaces(super jumps basically), run silently 333+, and also jump higher than normal. Perfect example is if you ever saw CoD1 SnD matches, if you played Germans in Carentan since your closer to the wall near the tank you could jump high enough to make your field of view pass the wall and shoot people. When normally using below 125/250 you can't really jump that high.(That's why punkbuster would kick you for 333 FPS cause it really changes the physics much more so than 250).

It all depends on the game really but it's not like there's anything wrong with running the game at such high framerate.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 17 November 2009, 17:57:56

Quote from: ripster;132845

Nurse!  I'm ready to call it.

PC GAMES DEAD ON NOV 16TH 2009

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5728&stc=1&d=1258387626)

So much for MW2 - that game sure didn't last long for $60.  Now on to the PS3.  As you can see the Cherry Keys are too big and the MLs are only a tad smaller in one direction (depth is a big issue).

The other problem - the PS3 controller is actually pretty great as is!  Even though the buttons are 100g they are short travel, tactile, and I don't have sore thumbs.

Whats more interesting is the implications of PC Gaming dying:

- Maybe the Gaming keyboard companies will start looking for other target markets?
- Nvidia stock anyone?
- Why DO people pay $300 for a video card and less than $30 for a keyboard?
- 6000 DPI mice.... snore......

P.S.  Uncharted 2 is a great game.  Plus, the babe is named..... Chloe!

Show Image

(http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/102/1026373/uncharted-2-among-thieves-20090918014133368.jpg)

this pic is for examining pixels only! :biggrin1:

Yeah, I finished mw2 in 2 days on the highest setting.  The only part that gave me problems was when you're running from that house in the mountains to the choppers.  Fricken bullets coming out of nowhere, and either landmines or explosives of some kind.  Had to replay that like 20 times to finally make it.  

It sucked, like practically no vehicle control at all, and small maps.  Playing it at 1080p was nice though.  First stand alone fps I've played at that level, the detail and scenery looked pretty good.   The best part of the game was the end credits where all the people were in the museum. lol

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mushbert on Fri, 04 June 2010, 19:06:46

Hi ripster, I've been planning to do this mod for a while, so thank you for the nice worklog. I have a few questions you might be able to help me with:

Something was mentioned about the switch loci needing to be very precise to keep the keycaps from colliding. When you expanded the N52's holes for the Cherries, did you just centre them on the original locations, or did you redo the whole layout?

The other thing is, I have an older keyboard with a broken keycap, and whatever type of plastic it's made of will not hold together with cyanoacrylate type glues. How is your orange button holding up? I've seen you talk about using plastic epoxy, can you recommend something?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: mushbert on Sat, 05 June 2010, 13:52:39

Thanks. I'll have to check if there's enough of the keycap's stem to glue back on.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: niplfsh on Thu, 22 July 2010, 14:05:08

This is totally awesome. Thanks for the writeup.  I've got 2 N52s laying around and I'd like to try this on one of them.  My question is where can someone who doesn't have a zillion mechanical keyboards laying around acquire the switches and keycaps? The only switches I've seen for sale are blues, blacks, and clear... seems that brown would be ideal for this application.  Keycaps, I have no idea.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: morffius on Thu, 22 July 2010, 14:19:11

Me too! I'll be digging into mine later this year when I have some time. But first to acquire some Browns or Blues...

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Infinite north on Thu, 22 July 2010, 15:13:44

You really won't want to use blues for gaming because the actuation is staggered. makes double tapping harder.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: morffius on Sat, 24 July 2010, 20:09:04

I actually have a bunch of blacks, so I was thinking of cannibalizing a brown or blue for some springs to make some reds. ... On that note, I wonder if there is a Cherry brown/blue that has double shots and a normal Right sift key..

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: minnus on Wed, 18 August 2010, 20:10:20

I had to make an account to tell you how awesome this is...if only I had switches laying around :'(

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Stone on Wed, 25 August 2010, 11:49:58

Do you use it as a (admittedly slightly handicapped) HID keyboard, or do you use the n52 drivers? I stopped using mine, it was about 50/50 the dodgy switchfeel and the shockingly poor drivers and software. Used as a composite keyboard/mouse device it would actually be tolerable with decent switches...

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 25 August 2010, 12:01:38

When I was using my Nostromo, I would "permanently" map the keys in the UI, then map each game to the Nostromo.  I would only use the UI once.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Lanx on Thu, 07 October 2010, 04:06:07

had some extra cherry browns from my mod, so i decided to do this full n52 mod. basically followed Ripsters guide, pretty awesome.
(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/7771/p1010729v.jpg) (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/p1010729v.jpg/)

I'm using it as a "faux" numberpad and if/when i want to game i have that option.
btw Ripster my num15 (the space bar) seems a bit high, i guess i didn't test out the physical distance of that, do you just recess it deeper?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: WhiteRice on Thu, 07 October 2010, 13:53:14

Ok here's a crazy idea. What if  someone made a split ergo keyboard based on the nostromo design. You could use the thumb nub to mouse around.

Or something like this, which I just found on the internet;

(http://dkpfiles.com/taint/pics/m_TY66Kwn252tT4l7m19Y.jpg)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Lanx on Thu, 07 October 2010, 16:10:31

Quote from: ripster;230813

Great Job!

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2409&d=1241763378)

This is how low I recessed my spacebar.  Experiment with different keys (Cherry's are low profile).

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5516&stc=1&d=1257178412)

yea that's exactly the same height i have too, i was thinking of lowering it by 2/3mm or something, everytime i try to hit the down arrow on the pad i end up hitting the space bar too, ended up removing the cap and just having the exposed stem, this seems to work, but looks ugly heh, i'll try later to mod it but i don't want to open it up again!

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: vegaman on Sun, 19 December 2010, 18:37:36

Just ordered myself an n52 to join in the fun :D
I've been using an n50 for a while, but after getting a mechanical keyboard my fingers aren't too happy on the crappy rubber domes. So I decided to keep the n50 as a backup and mod the n52.

I guess the differences for me will be:
Plan to paint the silver bits yellow to match my keyboard and mouse - might have to ask my gundam/warhammer friends for info on how to go about this
Cherry brown switches - though I'm tempted to try some ghetto reds
Replace the controller with a teensy so I get n-key rollover, keys/macros can be stored onboard and I don't need drivers.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Lanx on Sun, 19 December 2010, 21:49:08

Quote from: vegaman;265898

Just ordered myself an n52 to join in the fun :D
I've been using an n50 for a while, but after getting a mechanical keyboard my fingers aren't too happy on the crappy rubber domes. So I decided to keep the n50 as a backup and mod the n52.

I guess the differences for me will be:
Plan to paint the silver bits yellow to match my keyboard and mouse - might have to ask my gundam/warhammer friends for info on how to go about this
Cherry brown switches - though I'm tempted to try some ghetto reds
Replace the controller with a teensy so I get n-key rollover, keys/macros can be stored onboard and I don't need drivers.

you could just as easily (if not easier) do this mod to a n50, the n50 has pins sticking out. But if your bent on using a teesy guess you know more about that than me.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: vegaman on Sun, 19 December 2010, 22:38:48

Quote from: ripster;265936

Great!  Fun mod but cutting the switch mounts is a PITA!

N52 is NKRO.

Although the teensy mod would be nice to get rid of the drivers.  And you would have to be able to load multiple profiles quickly.

Hmm, NKRO makes keeping the controller a bit more tempting, though it looks harder to solder to than the n50 controller or a teensy. I think I'll order the teensy anyway and I'll find something else to use it for if I decide to stick with the n52 controller.

Quote from: Lanx;265960

you could just as easily (if not easier) do this mod to a n50, the n50 has pins sticking out. But if your bent on using a teesy guess you know more about that than me.

Yeah, the n50 does look like it would be easier, but I'd like more keys and buttons than it has. And doing something different is always fun :biggrin1:

Edit: ordered the teensy++ since the teensy isn't in stock. Trying to track down some switches without huge shipping cost now too. Hopefully I'll update in here to make sure I keep going

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: roads on Mon, 17 January 2011, 00:02:44

Indeed a nice mod. I did an analog Joystick mod that will only work with the XIM3. See it here. http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=7745.0

Now I would like to give it some cherry keys also. I have some questions that do not seem to be answered in this tutorial.

1. Will the regular high keys fit the N52te or do I need a low profile Cherry keyboard, if yes which one do you suggest.
2. Can someone list what key has to go where in the spaghetti wiring?
3. If I may use large keys, what Cherry board has red keys that are nowadays available?

Thanks for helping!

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: roads on Wed, 19 January 2011, 01:38:26

http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=8122.msg91041#msg91041

done for the N52te. Anyone here with brown cherries? would like to exchange some blacks :)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: db_Iodine on Wed, 19 January 2011, 03:15:46

Quote from: roads;280905

http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=8122.msg91041#msg91041

done for the N52te. Anyone here with brown cherries? would like to exchange some blacks :)

This makes me want to mod my N52te with brown cherries. I'd just need those switches.

What's the real difference between 4-pin switches and 2-pin switches, and would both options work well for this mod?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: roads on Wed, 19 January 2011, 03:24:19

Why brown why not make red ones? I hear the reds are best for gaming and they can be made of blacks and browns?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: db_Iodine on Wed, 19 January 2011, 04:06:30

Buying both blacks and browns/blues would get expensive. I'm quite happy gaming with my browns so I'll just stick those in the n52te and be happy.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: roads on Wed, 19 January 2011, 04:23:39

No, just buy a board with browns and we exchange 40 of them. You can even just cut the board if you don't want to unsolder them all as its quite a pain. Mine are already unsoldered. I am in Germany and we do have mail to Finland. Actually I am Hungarian origin so you are even family LOL.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: db_Iodine on Wed, 19 January 2011, 05:03:05

I PM'd you. If you could sell me a combination board, that would be awesome.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: roads on Wed, 19 January 2011, 05:19:09

No you misunderstood me I only have black, if you buy a brown cherry keyboard we can send each other 40. I build 40 reds and you do the same. We share the two boards.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Lanx on Sat, 22 January 2011, 10:40:59

spring order is an option in group buy too.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: roads on Sat, 22 January 2011, 10:50:24

Really? Where?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: db_Iodine on Sat, 22 January 2011, 14:13:00

Here's the thread (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=13251) about it. And here's the thread (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=13312) where you can place your orders.

I guess it might be easier for you to just order a set of those springs than trade switches with me.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: roads on Sat, 22 January 2011, 14:58:16

Yeah as they are from Germany, you can still have some switches if you need them. There seems to be a deadline though there.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: db_Iodine on Sat, 22 January 2011, 16:28:02

The deadline was postponed because sixty had some troubles with the first springs he tested. You could send sixty a PM and ask him directly.

If your going to order those springs from the group buy, I think we can skip our little switch trade.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: roads on Sat, 22 January 2011, 22:39:57

Alright just wanted to say that I would have sticked to our deal also if you would have needed some blacks. I will pm sixty.

Title: Goop It
Post by: toddincabo on Fri, 11 March 2011, 23:45:15

I was all over the place when excited, so made a pinky cup to put a break on that (mapped my WASD over to the left). The rest are obvious , but the most useful is the riser on the S button so all I have to do is toggle my finger on it to engage it.

The SPACE bar was extended with a little plastic and foam on it also.

Popped out the A button and spun it 180 for backward tilt before adding the finger rest plastic cutout. Also used a rear button 180 for the W button.

Drilled little holes and added little screws on the directional pad.  Changing them to black later.

All the little balls are those push pin heads.

The pads are perfect for my wrist and large hands.

A lot of Goop (which makes a mess) but perfect for removing at any time by just peeling it off, unlike your regular glue.

The risers are drip system tubing. Tons of trial and error.

(http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/161/duo2.jpg)

Title: Another Closer
Post by: toddincabo on Fri, 11 March 2011, 23:51:11

(http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/7743/n52closel.jpg)


(http://img858.imageshack.us/img858/395/siden52.jpg)


(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7940/n52closer.jpg)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: db_Iodine on Sat, 12 March 2011, 02:58:50

It's still the membrane version. Did you think about modding it to use mechanical switches?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: toddincabo on Sun, 13 March 2011, 13:40:24

db Iodine.... If your question is directed at me, I had no idea anyone was doing the mech. switches like this.

I live down here in Cabo, so will have to get a friend to pick me up a Cherry.  But hell yes....I'm definately gonna' do it.

Title: Cherry innards
Post by: toddincabo on Sun, 13 March 2011, 14:13:12

Check out this site for the inner workings of the different switching mechanisms.

http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/491752-mechanical-keyboard-guide.html

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: db_Iodine on Sun, 13 March 2011, 15:36:58

Quote from: toddincabo;311084

Check out this site for the inner workings of the different switching mechanisms.

http://www.fuuuoverclock.net/fuuboards/491752-mechanical-fuuboard-guide.html

Yeah, ummm, you stumbled to a forum dedicated to mechanical keyboards, and posted your mod to a topic that's dedicated to modding these gamepads to use mechanical key switches.

Pretty sure we have better guides on mechanical keyboards right here on this very same forum. Check this out.  (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=START+HERE+--+The+Geekhack+Mechanical+Keyboard+Guide+-+Includes+Glossary+and+Links)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: toddincabo on Sun, 20 March 2011, 16:47:49

Checked out the site you requested.  Thanks man. It does ROCK !

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: strum4h on Mon, 28 March 2011, 02:15:45

I really love those vintage cherry doubleshots.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: SmallFry on Mon, 16 January 2012, 18:36:42

:frusty: Now that we have a petty request filled...Answer my question. How much space is in the Nostrosmo? Would it fit my 2 inch by 1 inch AIKON in replace of the current PCB?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: SmallFry on Tue, 17 January 2012, 09:48:18

Thanks...I think I'm going to use an AIKON anyways, so I may need to hollow out or make a small place for the AIKON to come out. Is under the wrist pad empty space? I haven't gotten a Nostrosmo yet, so going on your pictures I can't tell.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: thp777 on Tue, 17 January 2012, 10:06:07

With a little dremeling under the palm wrest u could prolly fit it. may have to sit under the black piece and not inside the case

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: SmallFry on Tue, 17 January 2012, 10:39:16

Thanks Thp777. I'll have to look at it closely when I get one.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: thp777 on Tue, 17 January 2012, 12:04:44

i got an extra casing i could see if itll fit in if u can get measurements and thickness of the board ill mock it up.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: SmallFry on Tue, 17 January 2012, 13:42:47

That's alright. Thanks though.:smile:

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 17 January 2012, 16:38:36

i don't see where you can put the aikon outside of replacing the current pcb, there is no room anywhere really, under the "baseplate" basically the black cover, there is no room, it's just plastic when you lift it up, the only real "cavity" is the pcb area, i'll find my extra nostromo i have in storage if i can, and open it up, not gonna open up my cherry modded nostromo tho, so gotta find the spare buried under many rubbermaids.
maybe the "hump" could work, have to open and see tho (beena while)

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: thp777 on Tue, 17 January 2012, 17:17:32

i took some pics of the casing inside and out but i cant find card reader >.< ill post them up as soon as i find it

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: SmallFry on Tue, 17 January 2012, 17:19:23

If you do find it Lanx or Thp777, shoot me a PM if you'd be willing to sell it and what Nostrosmo it is exactly. (Belkin or Razer etc) I'm looking for one with the pretty orange button. I like the aesthetics of it more than the others.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 17 January 2012, 18:10:57

oh no it's a spare (well 2) that i just keep around since they're not made anymore i only ever bought got the belkin, never tried the razer since ppl said the macro software sucks.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: minnus on Thu, 09 February 2012, 19:13:25

I am almost ready to attempt this mod... I have all the tools I believe I need (dremel, soldering iron with a very fine tip, 60/40 solder, cherry red switches) except for wire... I am a complete noob (I will most likely fail at this mod) - what wire is recommended (gauge / material)?

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: SmallFry on Sat, 11 February 2012, 21:37:08

I would recommend stranded high 20's gauge wire so a 28 or so. I also would suggest different colors for sanity purposes. Ripster won't be of a whole ton of help, so if you have any problems PM me. I haven't done the mod yet but understand it well.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: minnus on Sat, 11 February 2012, 22:19:42

Thanks SmallFry!

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Lanx on Sat, 11 February 2012, 23:25:26

you actually won't need different colors, the matrix is really simple, the hard part is just soldering the wire to the controller, i used 30awg for that.

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: minnus on Sun, 12 February 2012, 16:38:59

Thanks! Sorry about that ~ I worked backwards, and found post 98's reference to "Teflon coated wire" and assumed that was it - my bad!

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: enigmatik on Thu, 05 April 2012, 20:31:14

F



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: enigmatik on Thu, 05 April 2012, 20:33:21

Sorry. Didn't mean to post that! This looks really interesting though, I won a n52 in an Xfire giveaway years ago and it has sat in the box since


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: demik on Fri, 06 April 2012, 09:27:09

Don't go off topic rip

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: Stevie Wonder on Sat, 07 April 2012, 19:16:05

Hey you ཉཇརཧསཧསིདནཆཙནངཀཛནཇདཇཅཇ moderators!

Move this thread to the Mods Area!

Sent From Brother Ripster's iPad

Title: Nostromo N52 Black Cherry Mod
Post by: demik on Sat, 07 April 2012, 19:37:48

there you go rip.