Razer Death Adder Refresh

[itlnstln]

Check it.

[mike2h]

nvery nice mouse when its working. went through 3(the first was doa) of them during warranty. then it failed again 2 mos out of warranty...
tarantula kb failed once during warranty & about 3 months out of warranty. which is ridiclulous for a kb that expensive. still have the lame $20 battlelight tho. at least it still works. lol.
heep my pls ps2 ms natural around for bios problems(got it when they first came out dont know how old it is), got a backlit eclipse(from when they first released) i use for my ps3, & of course the g15.
i have other kbs around on other peoples computers & I have never had a kb die on me until i laid out the most $$ i had ever spent on that pos tarantula(poor implementation to).
anyway, razer has definte qc issues.

[D-EJ915]

I gave up on my 3rd diamondback...not worth sending it back even if return shipping is free lol

[mike2h]

u really got to wonder razer is staying in business. especialy with excellent offerings from logitech & steelseries(i love my ikari laser).

[timw4mail]

I just dislike the fragile-looking cord that comes with their mice.

[mike2h]

think their products are 'fragile' in general.

[elbowglue]

Razer ships malware with drivers
Published: 23rd September 2009

Peripheral manufacturer Razer was left with egg on its face this week by the revelation that it had been unwittingly distributing malware with its driver updates.

The Trojan - troj.dropper.jiz, which downloads and installs a copy of worm.aspxor.ab - was spotted on Razer's product support website by anti-virus vendor Trend Micro - and reported by DownloadSquad - earlier this week.



http://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/2009/09/23/razer-ships-malware-with-drivers/1

Thanks razer.

[timw4mail]

Good thing I don't use their drivers, then isn't it?

[itlnstln]

*.jiz... funny, immature maybe, but funny.
 
(Says the guy with Spotted **** for an avatar, but hey, it's my favorite dessert.)

[itlnstln]

I don't know.  I see it at the store, and I'm tempted to try it, but I really don't like currants much, and the thought of eating pig suet doesn't really sound appetizing to me.  That, and remembering the food I ate when I lived across the pond just isn't creating a recipe of win for me.

[PRISONER 24601]

Infared is the best IMO.

I just wish Razer made higher quality products with i dunno maybe a little bit more class

[hyperlinked]

I gave up on my 3rd diamondback...not worth sending it back even if return shipping is free lol

Mine is alive and well over four years later.

[ch_123]

I really don't see anything that Razer mice do that Steelseries or Logitech don't do just as well.

[timw4mail]

I really don't see anything that Razer mice do that Steelseries or Logitech don't do just as well.

Price, in some cases.

[ch_123]

I'd rather just pay extra for something that I know is going to serve me well.

[timw4mail]

I'd rather just pay extra for something that I know is going to serve me well.

For the price I got a smoother, higher resolution mouse that hasn't acted up on me yet. Logitech does make nice mice too, I just find the ones I'd buy too low DPI.

[ch_123]

How low is too low?

[timw4mail]

How low is too low?

Around 400 DPI. I'm probably needlessly extrapolating from my MX400.

[ch_123]

When I said Logitech, I was talking about stuff in the same price range as Razer mice... The MX518 does about 1,600 DPI and is pretty cheap relative to how good a mouse it is.

[timw4mail]

When I said Logitech, I was talking about stuff in the same price range as Razer mice... The MX518 does about 1,600 DPI and is pretty cheap relative to how good a mouse it is.

I'm talking about a Salmosa.

[ch_123]

Which is pretty much the same price as an MX518. At least where I shop it is.

[timw4mail]

Which is pretty much the same price as an MX518. At least where I shop it is.

I tend to get what's cheap, and what I can at the time, so perhaps I don't have the best idea of what I'm talking about here. I think I got the Salmosa on woot for $10.

[Shuki]

I tend to get what's cheap, and what I can at the time, so perhaps I don't have the best idea of what I'm talking about here.

Not always a bad option.

I've had quite a few mice and mostly cost does not equal performance.

Of the mice I own :

Logitech MX300, 500, 510, 510
Microsoft Intellimouse explorer 3.0
Microsoft Intellimouse optical
Microsoft Wheel Mouse optical
Steelseries Ikari Laser, Optical
Razer Diamondback (original), 3G
Razer Krait, Salmosa, Deathadder, Lachesis, Copperhead
Some A4tech mice I can't remember then name of

Funnily enough the mouse I am using at the moment is the cheapest one out of all of them which is the wheel mouse optical. Handles perfectly well in games, comfortable shape and only cost 7 pounds.

[itlnstln]

Not always a bad option.
 
I've had quite a few mice and mostly cost does not equal performance.

QFT.  My sweet spot seems to be right in the middle.  "Cheap" mice usually don't have the features I want, and "expensive" mice have both features I would never use and, usually, a sacrificing of ergonomics.  Most of the mice I have been happy with over the years have been manufacturers' (usually Logitech and MS) middle of the road offerings.

[Shuki]

Yeh that is pretty much the best route to go down. As long as a mouse is comfortable then it should be great for general use. For games then it perhaps has to have a decent sensor as people can use low sensitivities which can be ~50cm for 180 degrees in game, requiring fast movements.

Although I will be buying a Steelseries Xai which is quite a lot more expensive than most of these mice, and ironically has the same basic shape of the wheel mouse optical. However the small improvements + sidebuttons and a better sensor make this worth it in my eyes.

If you want great performance from a cheap mouse then you just can't beat the entry level microsoft mice (wheel mouse optical + intellimouse optical).

[exousia]

I've owned both Logitech and Razer and I can tell you it mostly comes down to preference ala ergonomics. Just like different people prefer different switch forces, the same applies for how people hold mice or how their hand molds to them.

Saying that optical is better than laser is lazy misinformation. Current gen laser sensors are just as good and superior than optical, especially at higher ips. This has been proven and researched on a few hardcore japanese sites that do experiments on them. The G9x being a shining example.

I would say also the higher dpi of the newer sensors is just an added bonus of being able to track on more variety of surfaces smoothly than previous gen mice and those are the primary gains. Of course there are subtle upgrades like better skates, better build quality, better cord quality, button feel, surface texture, etc.

[Shuki]

I'v
Saying that optical is better than laser is lazy misinformation. Current gen laser sensors are just as good and superior than optical, especially at higher ips.

I don't remember saying this ?

[exousia]

I don't remember saying this ?

I know, I was referring to Prisoner's post. Guess I should've quoted him.

[Shuki]

Well I'll see how true that is when I get my Xai delivered

[Langley]

The Salmosa was a better buy considering I had two MX518s that would not stop their electronic banshee howl of death. Every time I've bought logitech something has gone horribly wrong with it.

[timw4mail]

The Salmosa was a better buy considering I had two MX518s that would not stop their electronic banshee howl of death. Every time I've bought logitech something has gone horribly wrong with it.

Not to mention that I find the MX518's the most hideous and generic-looking mouse available.

[ch_123]

The MX518 is a generic looking mouse? You must live in a place with some pretty interesting hardware...

The 'moon crater' finish is a bit **** alright, but we're more function over form around here, right?

[exousia]

The MX518 is a generic looking mouse? You must live in a place with some pretty interesting hardware...

The 'moon crater' finish is a bit **** alright, but we're more function over form around here, right?

People generally tend care just as much over the shape of the mouse than just the performance. The same can't be quite said for a keyboard. And I'd think the reasons are plenty obvious.

[ch_123]

Have you ever used an MX518? It's is a perfectly usable and comfortable mouse.

And I would consider ergonomic design an aspect of function. But it's not too difficult to design a comfortable mouse for 90% of the population... Of course, manufacturers still screw it up.

[Shuki]

People generally tend care just as much over the shape of the mouse than just the performance. The same can't be quite said for a keyboard. And I'd think the reasons are plenty obvious.

I would say the layout of a keyboard would be pretty important to the user in the same way the shape of a mouse will be important.

The 'moon crater' finish is a bit **** alright, but we're more function over form around here, right?

That's why I got an Asus one


The logicool mx518 looks pretty "cool" as well

[microsoft windows]

Those mice may look pretty but I'm going to stick with my trusty ol' Microsoft Mouse for the time being.

[Shuki]

Using the wheel mouse optical at the moment myself

[lmnop]

here is my 2 cents.

the 3.5G Infared Laser Sensor is a Philips Twin-Eye renamed and is the same sensor in the Cooler Master Storm Sentinel Advance. it has the same jitter and z-axis tracking problems the 3G Infared Laser Sensor has which was also manufactured by Philips on top of that it can't track on all surface patterns not even their own Razer eXactMat or a half a dozen other popular brand name surfaces and the surfaces that can track are not tracking optimally. a lot of Razer Mamba users have had to tape down blank sheets of white paper or purchase a Razer Pro|Pad (discontinued) because the sensor seems to track more accurately on a white reflective surface.

generally speaking Razer build quality used to be poor but now it's just bad the feet and rubber coatings their new mice receive go pretty quick and there is isolated issues depending on the model for example the Razer Mamba battery cover can scrape against a surface so a Razer rep on the blueprint forum had to take pictures to demonstrate how to close it by depressing all 4 corners with your fingers. why couldn't they make a simple snap cover like on a remote control?

the firmware updates are not very good either the Razer Mamba v1.06 outperforms v1.08 but v1.08 contains bug fixes and improvements so you have to decide if you want them but take the performance hit or vice versa and since the Razer Lachesis uses an early incarnation of this sensor and is almost 3 years old and are still fixing it I can't imagine any sane gamer would use this sensor on the amateur or pro level.

if the conditions are met performance can match or exceed the Avago 9500 Laser Sensor found in the Logitech G500, G9x and SteelSeries Xai but at least those mice are not plagued with issues.

PS, Wheel Mouse Optical served me well

[ch_123]

How do you quantify 'performance' in this context? Tracking ability? DPI?

[lmnop]

the Japanese have been able to create a benchmark by measuring counts per second by metres by second by data saturation and clipping.

for example.



here is the Avago 308** optical sensor found in the Dharma Tactical Mouse, Logitech MX-518, Logitech MX-518 Rev 2, Razer Krait, Razer Diamondback and A4Tech X-718.

Note: the Avago 3080E optical sensor found in the Logitech MX-518 Rev 2 suffers from data saturation at any resolution. the Setpoint drivers act as a catalyst and causes a significant performance loss. it is recommended not to install the Setpoint drivers and to set the resolution under 1800 CPI which puts this mouse in the low sensitivity category.



here is the Avago 3668 optical sensor found in the Razer DeathAdder, Razer Boomslang CE 2007, Razer Salmosa and Razer Diamondback 3G.

it is not the fastest optical sensor that belongs to the Bluetrack 4000 found in the Microsoft Sidewinder X8 however it is the fastest and most accurate optical sensor on the market.



here is the Avago 6010 laser sensor found in the Logitech G5, OCZ Equalizer, Razer Copperhead, Microsoft Sidewinder, A4Tech X-750F, Microsoft Habu and Dharma Tactical Mouse.  

it tracks very well on multiple surfaces but the Avago 3668 is much faster.

Note: the OCZ Equalizer is stuck with a 125Hz polling rate. if you try to overclock the usb port and it says 1000Hz it will still be stuck at 125Hz.

Note: the Razer Copperhead and Microsoft Habu suffer from skipping at low resolution on hard surfaces.



here is the OS MLT 04 optical sensor found in the Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer and Microsoft Intellimouse.

this is one of the reasons it's so popular amongst low sensitivity gamers because it tracks so accurately at low resolution on multiple surfaces. it sets the bar for build quality and is inexpensive.



here is the early incarnation of the Philips Twin Eye laser sensor found in the Razer Lachesis, Razer Orochi and there is another variant found in the Silverstone Raven mouse.

Note: the sensor suffers from jitter, z-axis tracking and has a auto-resolution stepping feature that causes it to take a performance loss.



here is a bonus graph on the SteelSeries Experience I-2 which is a frosted translucent glass surface.

[timw4mail]

Considering the only Razor mouse I have is a Salmosa, I'd say have I have pretty decent one, judging by those graphs.

[lmnop]

you are right Tim.

on Nov 8th Woot.com had the Razer Salmosa for $13.27 USD a 24 hour sale only. what a deal. the only problem with the Razer Salmosa is the microswitches they are low quality and tend to squeak or when you depress once they double click however some people managed to fix this by applying some WD 40 to the microswitches.

[ch_123]

Is the Experience I2 the one used in the Ikari?

[timw4mail]

you are right Tim.

on Nov 8th Woot.com had the Razer Salmosa for $13.27 USD a 24 hour sale only. what a deal. the only problem with the Razer Salmosa is the microswitches they are low quality and tend to squeak or when you depress once they double click however some people managed to fix this by applying some WD 40 to the microswitches.

I got mine from Woot.

[lmnop]

no the SteelSeries Experience I-1 and I-2 is a frosted translucent glass surface (glass mousepad). they were released in 2001 under the name Icemat and Icemat SE designed for ball and optical mice.

the sensor used in the SteelSeries Ikari Laser and Mionix Saiph 3200 is called the Cypress Ovations+ CYONS1001x

I don't have a graph but it will outperform the Avago 6010 but is surface dependant.

another sensor I left out because I didn't have a graph for was the Avago 6090 Laser Sensor found in the Logitech G9, Gigabyte GM-M8000 and Roccat Kone. the Avago 6010 will outperform it but is also surface dependant.

there is a feature on the Roccat Kone called the TCU (Tracking Control Unit) which is an additional sensor above the Avago 6090 lens and when activated it auto-calibrates to track on surfaces the Avago 6090 isn't normally proficient at like wood, cd cover, glass, etc. pretty intuitive.

[itlnstln]

I know the discussion has moved on a bit, but I really liked the MX518, it was one of my favorite mice.  I switched to the MX1000 for some rechargable, wireless love, and then I went to MS mice, because I like the smooth scroll wheel for the stuff I do at work.  The Logitech click wheel is still superior for gaming, though.

[Shuki]

What drives you nuts? The noise?

[Shuki]

Ah I see. All the mice I have used I played with the lowest resolution possible on the mouse. If a mouse comes out and it doesn't have 400/450dpi I wouldn't buy it which is ironic seeing as they try to market high dpi as a selling point.

Most of the games I play it takes me around 45cm to do a 360 degree turn and in older games it causes problems if you use a dpi higher than 400 so it can be an advantage to play with a lower dpi.

[timw4mail]

The irony of it all.   You're SUPPOSED to use black cherries.  You're SUPPOSED to pump up the mouse sensitivity.   You're SUPPOSED to have the highest DPI ever known to mankind.

I use any kind of switch, use the CH DT225, and have a blue rock as the ball.

But I do use it at the double-speed setting.

Most of the games I play it takes me around 45cm to do a 360 degree turn and in older games it causes problems if you use a dpi higher than 400 so it can be an advantage to play with a lower dpi.

It's easier to be more precise in your position with a less sensitive mouse. I find a low/mid range sensitivity works well for me, quick enough to turn around in a moment, slow enough to aim well.

[Arc'xer]

The irony of it all.   You're SUPPOSED to use black cherries.  You're SUPPOSED to pump up the mouse sensitivity.   You're SUPPOSED to have the highest DPI ever known to mankind.

Actually it is all preference but it really depends on the game. Plus there's different schools, Low DPI+Low sens; High DPI+lower sens etc.etc. Although it is true that a lower sensitivity will increase your accuracy anyone can learn to handle all the speed if they don't like low sensitivity.

Most of the time higher DPI is mentioned more so and compensating by lowering your sensitivity. But a lot of people prefer 400/450 DPI with low sensitivity. Biggest reasoning is high-sensitivity is more susceptible to twitching or if your surprised it doesn't fire you off to some direction because you flinched plus it's more accurate even though a person can learn to be accurate with high sensitivity.

That's why large mouse pads are sold like my Puretrak Talent, which is 19" x 14" or 48cm x 35cm. So with my arm I can sweep my view and when I need to aim, use my wrist. Some people use their arm to aim and sweep and some use their wrist while maintain their arm sweep to move their view.

0-15 cm for a 360 degree rotation in game = High sens
15-20 cm for a 360 degree rotation in game = Medium-high sens
20-25 cm for a 360 degree rotation in game = Medium sens
25-35 cm for a 360 degree rotation in game = Low sens
35+ cm for a 360 degree rotation in game = Very-low sens
75-100 for a 360 degree rotation in game = Ultra-low sens

So if you use 100 cm for an entire 360º, it takes you half of 100cm or 50cm to turn 180º and it's half 90º is 25cm. This is why most low-sensitivity use large cloth pads. Although it's personal preference and not all low-sens use cloth some use hybrid(coated cloth) or plastic or glass or aluminum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlqJlUqz-hA&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hBJjRguDsI&fmt=18

Really it's all personal preference. There is some truth in that low sensitivity can't turn as fast as higher sensitivity. That's why large pads are used and why gaming mice require so much tracking speed.

Although I will say I do often wonder if higher DPI is better. Some people feel it's a marketing gimmick. What DPI is is basically speed/per inch, so if I have a 3000 DPI mouse every inch of the mouse translates to 3000 pixels. But some people are completely baffled by high DPI and wonder why people use it, for various reasons some are silly, some make sense.

Thing is I wonder in particular games with directinput like call of duty series or quake or most modern games(A lot of low DPI/Low sens comes from counter-strike because it does not use directinput it uses an X/Y overlay over your desktop so it recenter itself every time you move to the edge of your screen, that's why CS has so much problems with negative acceleration and other issues).

Basically any game that allows for a sensitivity of 0.01 or lower. If having say 5700 DPI and 0.06 sensitivity let's assume with that much DPI it equals say 400 DPI and 1.5 sensitivity. What is more accurate and better because with 5700/0.06 your two magnitudes lower sensitivity. Which basically means the game's control of your sensitivity is 99.2% gone. You have so much DPI that the game is mostly aimed by the mouse and not dependent on the value of the game.

[exousia]

Have you ever used an MX518? It's is a perfectly usable and comfortable mouse. And I would consider ergonomic design an aspect of function.

I have used one and I don't like it. I prefer the low-profile shape of the Razer Diamondback/Copperhead. You can visit any number of forums like gotfrag, esreality, prounreal, and many other gaming sites to find I am nowhere alone in disliking the shape.

But it's not too difficult to design a comfortable mouse for 90% of the population... Of course, manufacturers still screw it up.

I don't think this site is part of that 90% of the population that could give a rats arse what it's shaped like. Most people are oblivious to the generic shape. Most hardcore gamers (like myself) aren't and realize the ergonomics can make a significant difference. Just the same as this website is about hardcore keyboard users that know how much a mechanical keyboard can make a difference, yet 90% of the people out there are still 'satisfied' with the junk that is produced to the masses on the  shelves of office depot.

I would say the layout of a keyboard would be pretty important to the user in the same way the shape of a mouse will be important.

I agree, and that is not what I said either. Layout and shape are not one and the same. Shape of a keyboard could be something with rounded vs hard edges, compact, larger, designer elements- things that the typical keyboard user does not care as much about. Layout describes Where the keys are positioned, which is obviously much more important to most people (atleast in the context of the people who regular this site). Do not confuse the two in the analogy I was making.

[itlnstln]

I have used one and I don't like it. I prefer the shape of the MX518's.

My brain just exploded.

[exousia]

My brain just exploded.

It's ok I'm human. I corrected what I wrote with what I meant.

[Shuki]

I have a Puretrak talent as well, really nice pad would recommend it to anyone not just gamers (especially if you live in america).

Nice youtubes vids, a long time ago I used to play with 90cm for 360 degrees, but the ability to be able to whip around quickly is more important I felt.

I find the MX518 hard to grip really well and I do prefer the Diamondback shape to it, however no mouse I have used so far has been without flaws so hopefully I find one soon which I can stick with. Seeing as I didn't like the original Deathadder that much I doubt I will like the refresh version either :<

[Langley]

I think the thing that bothered me most about the mx518 (besides the horrible inhuman electronic noise it made at barely audible frequencies) was that the weight on it seemed really poorly distributed. It gave a little to much resistance to the point where it felt like it didn't want to move and I was forcing it against it's will. Mice don't have wills, you say? Every now and then, you could make out words in that howling noise.

[Arc'xer]

I think the thing that bothered me most about the mx518 (besides the horrible inhuman electronic noise it made at barely audible frequencies) was that the weight on it seemed really poorly distributed. It gave a little to much resistance to the point where it felt like it didn't want to move and I was forcing it against it's will. Mice don't have wills, you say? Every now and then, you could make out words in that howling noise.

By any chance were you using the new MX518? The new one has G-feet the large sized feet found on the G5.

New

Old

(Well not so new, it is a few years old but the amount of people with older 518s is quite a lot.)

The reason I ask is because one of the reasons why the MX518 lost popularity. Is because the old version had lighter weight and it's smaller mouse feet were preferred. The new MX518 had some weights installed by Logitech, reasons unknown. But the weight was significant enough to affect the mouse.

[ch_123]

Didn't they also change the electronics? Maybe that's what caused the weird noises. Mine had no issues, and it's still in use by one of my friends who I gave it to as a Christmas present.

[Shuki]

You weighed them with the cord attached!

Didn't see you already mentioned it, my bad

Some people are a picky about mice as you are about keyboards!

Difference is there are actual companies out there that make consistently high quality keyboards!

[lmnop]

My teenage son pwns you all in TF2/LFD with his MX518.  What cracks me up is he always top of the scoreboard using a Unicomp Buckling Spring and a MX518 set at LOW SENSITIVITY.  

Drives me nuts.

cute. I have been playing Team Fortress since 1997. if he is interested in competing on a high level I could get him a try out in CEVO or STA.

The irony of it all.   You're SUPPOSED to use black cherries.  You're SUPPOSED to pump up the mouse sensitivity.   You're SUPPOSED to have the highest DPI ever known to mankind.

my Cherry MX Blue took some getting used to but I can see why Cherry MX Black are preferred.

in the graphs I posted you can see a optical sensor that has a resolution of 1600 CPI leave a laser sensor with a resolution of 3200 CPI in the dust.

[Langley]

By any chance were you using the new MX518? The new one has G-feet the large sized feet found on the G5.

The design on the bottom is the same as the "old" picture. To me, it feels like it has a lot of weight at the top near the buttons, but feels much lighter at the base, causing sort of a dragging feeling. Though I wouldn't have even bothered to replace it if I could get it to stop making that noise. It wasn't my ideal, but it wasn't bad enough to pay 40 bucks for another mouse over. I think it probably has more to do with the fact that I'm 5'2" and very small in general. The "cheap" feeling I hear in a lot of complaints about Razer mice registers to me as "light." Probably why the copperhead was my favorite mouse ever. I'd still be using it if I hadn't killed the scroll wheel.

[microsoft windows]

The first two mice you pictured look thrashed. What on Earth did you do to them?

[ch_123]

That's the finish.

[Rajagra]

it is recommended not to install the Setpoint drivers

Some fascinating info there.
If you don't install Setpoint, how do you stop Windows from forcing acceleration on (even when it says it's off)? I tried some registry settings, but they don't seem to hold. I assume gamers hate acceleration as much as I do.

Show Image

here is a bonus graph on the SteelSeries Experience I-2 which is a frosted translucent glass surface.

Ouch! Guess who is using a G9 on an Icemat right now. :lol:

[microsoft windows]

You mean those mice were meant to look like they went through a lawn mower?

[Langley]

What's that coating they use on the grippy part of the mouse? Always seems to rub or peel off. Sort of curious as to what it is.

[exousia]

Ouch! Guess who is using a G9 on an Icemat right now. :lol:

The new G9x is a major improvement with it's upgraded sensor (the Avago ADNS-9500) and outperforms just about everything else, based on other graphs from that site.
 

[lmnop]

Some fascinating info there.
If you don't install Setpoint, how do you stop Windows from forcing acceleration on (even when it says it's off)? I tried some registry settings, but they don't seem to hold. I assume gamers hate acceleration as much as I do.


Ouch! Guess who is using a G9 on an Icemat right now. :lol:

the registry fix should work. I think the Setpoint drivers turn acceleration on automatically. maybe you should run driver cleaner? you are right acceleration should be turned off.

The new G9x is a major improvement with it's upgraded sensor (the Avago ADNS-9500) and outperforms just about everything else, based on other graphs from that site.
 

I think the SteelSeries Xai is the mouse to beat.

it uses the Avago A9500 Laser Sensor. the Logitech G9x and G500 use the Avago S9500 Laser Sensor. the difference is the feature set.



SteelSeries Xai (125 x 68 x 38 mm x 146 g)
Microsoft Intellimouse Optical (126 x 68 x 39 mm x 147 g)
Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical (124 x 66 x 39 mm x 125 g)
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 (132 x 69 x 43 mm x 163 g)
Razer Mamba (128 x 70 x 42 mm x 108-129 g)

I posted the dimensions because in the press release it looks really small but that isn't the case at all.

the sensor tracks at a impressive 6 metres a second by 100,000 counts per second. the Xai is a big improvement over the Ikari. the LCD is higher resolution and instead of just displaying profile name and cpi values it has a scrollable menu in which has almost every single driver feature in it except creating macros and profiles like you can edit jitter and prediction values, edit cpi values in increments of 1 for both x and y axis, edit polling rate in increments of 1, a new auto-adjusting lift feature similar to the Roccat Kone I mentioned earlier and a new feature called ExactSens which i'll quote

With SteelSeries ExactSens you can rely on true hardware based sensitivity settings, freeing yourself from any and all software interpolation

the configuration of this mouse is impressive.

with the exception of the WoW mouse they have always used quality scroll wheels and switches.

I like the classic ball shape housing it has a non-slip surface, great center of gravity, side buttons are clicky, braided cloth usb cable and I have read comments from owners that have said the teflon feet are really soft and glide even better than hyperglides.

PS, here is a side by side comparison of the DeathAdder Revision and DeathAdder Original.

[Arc'xer]

From the reviews I seen on youtube for both Kinzu and Xai. It seems like they aren't worth it.

It might have been quality control issues. But if that's not the case then there's quite the problem with them. More so to the kinzu having more positive acceleration and fails to track when moving the mouse fast enough.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videos&search_query=kinzu&search_sort=video_date_uploaded

Oranjoose's is quite extensive review.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videos&search_query=xai+review&search_sort=video_date_uploaded

Might be bad case of bad mice. But seems like every thread I read on these two mice someone is there pointing some problems.

[lmnop]

I have read the same comments from ESReality and FPSLabs a lot of people have claimed flawless tracking where the occasional person claims skipping or negative acceleration. the problem seems to be random and not isolated. i'm not sure if it's a hardware or software issue that can be resolved through a future firmware update. if I had this issue I would probably exchange it. if I remember correctly Logitech had some launch issues.

[Rajagra]

if I remember correctly Logitech had some launch issues.

My Logitech G5 needed a firmware update to make it work on some surfaces (like glass mats.) Yes. Firmware. For a mouse.

[lmnop]

I know there is a firmware update for the G5 I used to own it when Moses wore short pants. i'm talking about the G500 and G9x.

[Rajagra]

Wasn't being sarcastic. I find it amazing that we need (or are even able) to upgrade firmware on a mouse.

[DrunkenDonut]

Slightly OT, but still Logitech and Razer related...

I went from my much loved (but worn) MX-700 to a Razer Mamba to a Razer Orochi. I've been on the Orochi for 2-3 weeks now. It's a much better mouse for me, being smaller and a more appropriate setup for a laptop - bluetooth means no more carrying the Mamba's base around.

I'm new to the Razer mice, having not picked one up many many years ago when the Boomslang was all the rage (Logitech had never let me down). So far so good. My only peeves are the lack of OS X programmability for the Mamba and Orochi and an OS X corruption (Snow Leopard issue) which is occasionally disabling some hotkeys (mouse hotkeys included). I was stoked when I saw Mac driver availability but it's only a half done job. No hotkey / button configuration unless I hook up to Windows.

Despite that, the Orochi is my daily user and the battery life is decent too. Since I'm on rechargeables (and I always have the USB cord handy) I don't worry about running out of power. A week or two is far better than the 1.5 days I would get from the Mamba.

[Langley]

I hope they figure out how to make wireless rechargeable mice last longer on battery mode. It's really my last remaining problem with them. They always seem to die right in the middle of something critical. At least with the Mamba you can break out it's cord, but it's not exactly something that can be done on the fly. Best one I ever used was a plain old microsoft wireless optical mouse I don't even remember the model of. Used plain AA batteries and it lasted for weeks. Too bad the batteries eventually exploded inside of it, it was a good mouse.

Is the Orochi bluetooth only? I love the size of it.

[Arc'xer]

Is the Orochi bluetooth only? I love the size of it.

Both, wired/wireless just like the mamba.

[lmnop]

the Mamba is not bluetooth. Orochi is. the Orochi still suffers from jitter and z-axis tracking but doesn't have any pattern recognition problems. I think it's a better mouse.

[Arc'xer]

the Mamba is not bluetooth. Orochi is. the Orochi still suffers from jitter and z-axis tracking but doesn't have any pattern recognition problems. I think it's a better mouse.

I was referring to it's operation, it's dual-capability for wired/wireless modes.

[lmnop]

oh sorry

[exousia]

I think the SteelSeries Xai is the mouse to beat.

the sensor tracks at a impressive 6 meters a second by 100,000 counts per second. the Xai is a big improvement over the Ikari.

I'll believe that feat of the Xai when I see it in actual testing. As for the G9x, these results are pretty convincing, as it registers consistently past 5m/s and topping out at 6m/s.

[lmnop]

yes but the Japanese only tested the Avago A/S9500 on Glass (G-Pad, SteelSeries Experience I-2) there has always been a performance loss on Glass so if it can track on Glass at 6 metres a second by 100,000 counts a second it's a pretty safe assumption a aluminum, plastic or cloth well perform well.

Logitech G9x Avago ADNS-S9500


Logitech G500 Avago ADNS-S9500


SteelSeries Xai Avago ADNS-A9500


all three of them use the same sensor. there is no need to test them separately.

[lmnop]

yes but the Japanese only tested the Avago A/S9500 on 2 types of glass (G-Pad, SteelSeries Experience I-2) there has always been a performance loss on glass so if it can track on glass at 6 metres a second by 100,000 counts a second it's a pretty safe assumption a aluminum, plastic, cloth or hybrid will perform exceptionally well.

Logitech G9x Avago ADNS-S9500


Logitech G500 Avago ADNS-S9500


SteelSeries Xai Avago ADNS-A9500


all of them use the same sensor. there is no need to test them separately.

[exousia]

Then what is the 'feature set' you are talking about....

[lmnop]

Then what is the 'feature set' you are talking about....

it has a scrollable menu in which lets you edit almost every single driver feature except creating macros and profiles on the fly. you can edit jitter, prediction values, edit cpi values in increments of 1 for both x and y axis, edit polling rate values in increments of 1 and a new auto-adjusting lift feature similar to the Roccat Kone.

those are the features.

[exousia]

hah I see now. You confused me by saying what sensor each mouse uses individually and then following it by saying they use different 'feature sets'. I had no idea it just meant different driver configurabilities.

Interesting too, why one would want to be able to configure correction values. I would expect those to be built in and already programmed to the most optimal settings by some engineer. Start messing with that stuff too much and people will be confusing themslves as to whether it's just the mouse sensor not liking the mouse surface they're on or changing up the settings too much.

[lmnop]

steelseries calls correction "Freemove" I have it in my Ikari it basically makes drawing straight lines easier in programs like photoshop. I never had much use for it but it's a good piece of mind I suppose.

steelseries definitely sets the bar for mouse control. they explain every feature in detail here. you can also download preset profiles from their sponsored gamers.

[lmnop]

steelseries calls correction "Freemove" I have it in my Ikari it basically makes drawing straight lines easier in programs like photoshop. I never had much use for it but it's a good piece of mind I suppose.

steelseries definitely sets the bar for mouse control even though most gamers will probably set everything to zero the fact they allow you to control these settings which are hard coded in most mice and don't have to use a hacked firmware is great. they explain every feature in detail here. you can also download preset profiles from their sponsored gamers here.

[Arc'xer]

Interesting too, why one would want to be able to configure correction values. I would expect those to be built in and already programmed to the most optimal settings by some engineer. Start messing with that stuff too much and people will be confusing themslves as to whether it's just the mouse sensor not liking the mouse surface they're on or changing up the settings too much.

I don't understand how someone can get confused for all the features. It shouldn't be set in stone because different monitors, resolutions, and aspect ratios can affect sensitivity. If the person has so much trouble then they should find out the feature. It's an incentive to learn more about improving their mouse.

I mean if someone buys a mouse with this many features and don't know anything about it. I think either that person is in the wrong or they should take the time to learn the features.

steelseries calls correction "Freemove" I have it in my Ikari it basically makes drawing straight lines easier in programs like photoshop. I never had much use for it but it's a good piece of mind I suppose.

That's pretty much mouse prediction/correction or as logitech calls it angle snapping.

The engine corrects your distortions(stair case effect if you use a pencil and draw in paint) by making it a straight lines, more often. Humans don't generally make very straight lines so the engine assists and well it might be fine for some uses but gaming it tends to be a bit problematic for some.

I've read a number of low-sens users like it so they can turn without changing their point of aim due to small movements. But many don't like it due to the correction affecting aim.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8027/abyssussalmosa.png

No correction left and correction right. Notice the straight lines more often. In essence your aim is under your control more so.

[lmnop]

some mice have it some don't, some allow you to edit, others need a hacked firmware. in any case people make a fuss about them because they want to turn them off.

SteelSeries FreeMove offers users the option to choose the degree of anglesnapping or prediction, when this feature should kick in and correct your movement. You are able to adjust how much control should be left up to the mouse and how much control should be left up to yourself - in other words how precise should the mouse be reproducing your movement. This is especially desirable for user adjusting to the high precision in the SteelSeries Xai, especially if they are switching mouse from a mouse that wasn’t optimized for gaming.

You will find SteelSeries FreeMove options in the software of our Xai and Ikari Laser mice.

SteelSeries ExactAim offers total control over the amount of jitter correction and prediction calculations that are applied to the raw movement data the sensor reads from the surface. This is especially desirable when the mouse is used on a surface/mouse pad that hasn’t been optimized for high definition gaming.

[exousia]

I don't understand how someone can get confused for all the features. It shouldn't be set in stone because different monitors, resolutions, and aspect ratios can affect sensitivity. If the person has so much trouble then they should find out the feature. It's an incentive to learn more about improving their mouse.

I mean if someone buys a mouse with this many features and don't know anything about it. I think either that person is in the wrong or they should take the time to learn the features.

That's pretty much mouse prediction/correction or as logitech calls it angle snapping.

The engine corrects your distortions(stair case effect if you use a pencil and draw in paint) by making it a straight lines, more often. Humans don't generally make very straight lines so the engine assists and well it might be fine for some uses but gaming it tends to be a bit problematic for some.

I've read a number of low-sens users like it so they can turn without changing their point of aim due to small movements. But many don't like it due to the correction affecting aim.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8027/abyssussalmosa.png

No correction left and correction right. Notice the straight lines more often. In essence your aim is under your control more so.

I know what those feature's do, that doesn't mean applying them and trying to discern the results cannot lead to a mis-understanding of the real problem someone has with tracking. The majority of issues mice have vary because of the surface they are on in relation to both the sensor and dpi being used.

Aside from drift control, what I assume SteelSeries calls prediction, I don't see the need to have any other variables. And when they do provide them, there should be good documentation for it. Different (higher) resolutions should only affect the tracking ability if you are using a low dpi, regardless of monitor. The feature's aren't improving the mouse whatsoever, only changing how the mouse behave's. How they control jitter is curious, without simply changing the dpi setting or using some work-around algorithm. Every time I've had issue's with jitter, it was because of a cloth pad and That particular mouse. Looking at just how good this sensor is, I would see that as something that wouldn't even occur on most surfaces.

[Chao]

I gave up on my 3rd diamondback...not worth sending it back even if return shipping is free lol

I swear I must have gotten lucky, either that or their quality has degraded over the years. I got my Diamondback when it was their newest offering (circa 2005 iirc?) and it's still going strong. Several friends who bought them along with me still have them. One has failed because the man is a violent abuser of mice regardless of the brand and another started having some vertical tracking issues (when moving PRECISELY vertical, lacking any horizontal movement) in the last year, but mine and another fellow's are doing just fine and then some.

Also some of the optimizations in the newer Diamondback drivers have actually eliminated some of the functionality I found useful, namely the ability to hold down one of the programmable keys and have it, you know, register as down the entire time I hold it. Thus I use the same original drivers that came with the CD back in 2005.

[Kostamojen]

Anyone try the Imperator yet?

[Kostamojen]

Update:  I just bought a Imperator, LOL!

Pretty good so far... No pain issues yet.  Better than the G500 and Evoluent so far.

[hyperlinked]

I swear I must have gotten lucky, either that or their quality has degraded over the years. I got my Diamondback when it was their newest offering (circa 2005 iirc?)

I got my Diamondback around then too and mine is working spot on fine and never has had a problem in its life. I'm also using it on a Mac and it doesn't even have proper drivers for a Mac. The driver I'm using is for a similar Razer mouse. There were some driver compatibility issues, but I got those worked out and its even survived two OS updates from Tiger to Leopard to Snow Leopard.