Author Topic: Alps Appreciation Thread (Read 2449102 times)

ander · « **Reply #6550 on:** Wed, 16 March 2022, 18:39:06 »

I haven't been around for a while—but have people stopped appreciating Alps switches? Hope not, as they're great! And I hope you don't mind my reviving this thread, which has fallen surprisingly dormant.

Quote from: Jiekebo on Wed, 11 August 2021, 03:24:29

Got this beauty and restored it to former glory. Working like a charm now! Looks like genuine blue Alps to me, but I might be wrong, new to the area
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

What a fine older board! I take it there's no brand or model number, or you would've mentioned it... The distinctively thick arrow legends indicates it's a Monterey board—as seen on later ANSI-layout models like this Monterey K101:

But yours is an AT layout, so I haven't a clue what model it may be, or for whom Monterey may have made it (they made many OEM boards).

The deep blue color of its Alps-style switches seems to indicate that they're Alps clones:

...rather than original SKCM Blues, which tended to be paler:

But I'm sure it's still great fun to type on, as even the clones of that period were excellent (IMHO).

As it happens, I'm typing to all of you on my Matias Tactile Pro PC, which has been, sadly, discontinued for a while. (After buying mine second-hand, I spent three days cleaning out the previous owner's tiny beard hairs [LOL], as I hadn't gotten my blower yet.) The combination of crunchy bumps and crisp sounds make it seem more like a "clicky", certainly by today's standards. I'm just sorry Matias decided, for some reason, that only Mac users should have the pleasure... I guess they figured that's where the money was.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #6551 on:** Wed, 16 March 2022, 18:43:02 »

Quote from: ander on Wed, 16 March 2022, 18:39:06

original SKCM Blues, which tended to be

Maledicted · « **Reply #6552 on:** Thu, 17 March 2022, 09:47:29 »

Quote from: ander on Wed, 16 March 2022, 18:39:06

As it happens, I'm typing to all of you on my Matias Tactile Pro PC, which has been, sadly, discontinued for a while. (After buying mine second-hand, I spent three days cleaning out the previous owner's tiny beard hairs [LOL], as I hadn't gotten my blower yet.) The combination of crunchy bumps and crisp sounds make it seem more like a "clicky", certainly by today's standards. I'm just sorry Matias decided, for some reason, that only Mac users should have the pleasure... I guess they figured that's where the money was.

That's because they are clicky switches. Matias' naming conventions are all kinds of screwed up. The "tactile pro" boards have clicky switches, the "quiet click" boards have dampened tactiles. It makes no sense at all.

It is great that you scored a PC version of the tactile pro. I don't think I have any besides the Secure Pro. The nice thing is that I discovered that (at least with with every controller I have seen yet) you can change the layout by removing or soldering some resistors to the correct pads on the controller. You can also get a "quiet click" board and swap the click leaves and sliders from some loose clicky switches into the factory housings.

I have converted many a Mac tactile pro to the PC configuration.

gaunt · « **Reply #6553 on:** Sat, 15 October 2022, 10:03:09 »

So, I've been using my M0116 as my daily driver for the last few years, and as much as I still ****ing love the sound and feel of the orange switches, I'm never quite happy with the layout and the lack of N-key rollover is bothering me in several games. I've been dreaming about transplanting the switches into a TKL case that can preserve the vintage sound, i.e. a roomy plastic or soft wood case. I just found out about the NCR-80= keyboard kit https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003345941543.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2deu. Have anyone considered this board for an Alps build? Are there even any compatible PCBs and plates available? Only found one video of it on youtube with an Alps-type switch, but the owner had been handwiring.

The disadvantage of the case seems to be that while it is plastic and somewhat roomy (compared to e.g. using a Filco case or something), the plastic is apparently quite thin, even compared to the apparently not well built Cherry case that inspired it (Chyrosran completely roasted the G80-3000 for its build quality, and this is likely worse), and certainly thinner than most of the vintage Alps boards like Apples, Zeniths, and Acer KB-101. But I'm not sure how much this matters for sound... thick wood in keyboards seems to mute sound quite a bit, so in theory thin plastic shouldn't necessarily result in bad sound, right?

Also interested in any other thoughts regarding what could be a good TKL or similar keyboard build for Alps... if the NCR-80 isn't suitable it seems to me like the group buy community's focus on compact aluminum customs means that the only viable options for making a great Alps board without living with full-size/2-KRO/old layout is to either saw off the numpad of a vintage board and stitch it back together again (which obviously would be a great shame... though a vintage board in bad condition could be restored even though the switches were too far gone), or come up with some sort of thin and/or soft wooden keyboard design and commission a woodworker to make it for you.

HungerMechanic · « **Reply #6554 on:** Sun, 16 October 2022, 09:42:41 »

Quote from: gaunt on Sat, 15 October 2022, 10:03:09

I just found out about the NCR-80= keyboard kit

Wish I could help you more on the ALPS aspect, but I don't know how/if they interface with the NCR-80.

But I have an NCR-80. It's a great vintage retro-styled case at the entry-level budget.

Yes, it uses cheap plastic for the case. It's very much an OG Cherry board in terms of build quality. I have a plateless NCR-80 WKL with Ergo Clears. It feels and sounds like typing on wet cardboard, or especially egg cartons.

It is a very roomy, mostly-empty case.

The thing is - they are great for clicky builds. There are videos of NCR-80 with Zeal Clickiez, which is the most ALPS-like clicky available to MX. Apparently, NCR-80 is one of the best boards for these. You can make it really resonant and thocky.

I would recommend NCR-80 if it can handle ALPS. Sure, it's not the best board if you run it over with your office chair. But if you don't actively damage it, it will be fine. Mine is standing strong after a year or so, and I move it all over the place. They are more mobile than most boards.

If you are worried about the 'wet cardboard' typing, it may not be an issue with clickies. But also, you can purchase NCR-80 with dampening foam + CF plate. The CF plate is actually pretty good. With foam and plate and silent switches, you can make a relatively quiet NCR-80. Here's one I organized for a relative:

https://www.keebtalk.com/t/ncr-80-plastic-kit/15024/118?u=hungermechanic

R3 is now available, it comes as TKL instead of WKL. Beige-only, maybe? Anyway, NCR-80 is pretty good at replicating the vintage aesthetic and feel, but yeah, it's not a Filco Majestouch so don't use it as a baseball bat.

nevin · « **Reply #6555 on:** Mon, 17 October 2022, 07:16:34 »

@gaunt, i don't have case suggestions for you, but definitely check out Delirious's wonderful alps TKL build. very thorough + some great alps specific ideas.
TX84: Half plate alps TKL
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99552

mohawk1367 · « **Reply #6556 on:** Mon, 17 October 2022, 07:31:37 »

My first ever Alps board comes this Thursday and I'm so excited! It's a refurbished Omnikey 102 Gold Label with Alps SKCM Blues (waxed and everything, 8/10 rated). It even has a USB-C port added which is really cool.

gaunt · « **Reply #6557 on:** Mon, 17 October 2022, 12:03:39 »

Quote from: HungerMechanic on Sun, 16 October 2022, 09:42:41

Quote from: gaunt on Sat, 15 October 2022, 10:03:09
I just found out about the NCR-80= keyboard kit

Wish I could help you more on the ALPS aspect, but I don't know how/if they interface with the NCR-80.

But I have an NCR-80. It's a great vintage retro-styled case at the entry-level budget...

Thanks for the input on the case acoustics, but alas, it seems the case isn't even compatible with other MX PCBs so it seems Alps is definitely a no go. It seems a couple of users over on Deskthority have used the case for an Alps build, but the only details they mentioned was using a custom PCB and plate which is definitely far beyond my abilities.

Quote from: nevin on Mon, 17 October 2022, 07:16:34

@gaunt, i don't have case suggestions for you, but definitely check out Delirious's wonderful alps TKL build. very thorough + some great alps specific ideas.
TX84: Half plate alps TKL
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99552

Unfortunately any compact aluminum case has too much of a detrimental impact on sound and takes away too much of what makes Alps great.

I've actually considered whether getting a Filco Majestouch and replacing the PCB and switches would be an option, but seemingly there aren't even any aftermarket Alps-compatible PCBs that fit in a Filco/Tex case, as surprising as that is. I think that leaves the KBP V80 as the only widely available plastic case you could easily put some SKCM Alps into... but that case is pretty much the most flimsy case I can think of

fohat.digs · « **Reply #6558 on:** Fri, 25 August 2023, 17:21:41 »

Has the market for blue Alps collapsed? Recent ebay prices seem to be way down.

I am in a place where I need some money, and I have a near-immaculate LE DC-2014 that I considered selling - in expectation of getting several hundred dollars for it. The exterior has typical yellowing but the switches are basically new (no shine on any of the the key caps and essentially to no dust inside).

What has happened to the low supply and high demand?

juliday · « **Reply #6559 on:** Fri, 25 August 2023, 22:14:01 »

speaking of the alps!
I've got mine recently

from NEC PC-8201

alps skfl series.
[ Specified attachment is not available ]

Rhienfo · « **Reply #6560 on:** Fri, 25 August 2023, 22:24:41 »

Quote from: fohat.digs on Fri, 25 August 2023, 17:21:41

Has the market for blue Alps collapsed? Recent ebay prices seem to be way down.

I am in a place where I need some money, and I have a near-immaculate LE DC-2014 that I considered selling - in expectation of getting several hundred dollars for it. The exterior has typical yellowing but the switches are basically new (no shine on any of the the key caps and essentially to no dust inside).

What has happened to the low supply and high demand?

Isn't much demand for keyboards after the hobby exploded around 2020 or so, cause the hobby for a lot of people was kinda a fad which made the prices fall a lot. More noticeable in the custom keyboard scene than vintage but still has had an affect on it. Plus unless were talking about really rare things beamsprings/alps neon green people aren't willing to pay the high markups at the hobby peak pandemic (and even then the prices are going down on both those things).

On top of that the people who stayed will be more likely to know actually good prices for stuff and would skip on bad deals. Considering it's nearly perfect switches you might be able to get above retail a bit, since there might be a die hard alps who may pay a bit of a premium for the good switches but that's about it.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #6561 on:** Sat, 26 August 2023, 08:11:04 »

Quote from: Rhienfo on Fri, 25 August 2023, 22:24:41

Considering it's nearly perfect switches you might be able to get above retail a bit

Yes, I think I am seeing that. I am just going to keep it and either use the switches or wait for prices to go back up.

chyros · « **Reply #6562 on:** Tue, 29 August 2023, 01:31:56 »

Quote from: Rhienfo on Fri, 25 August 2023, 22:24:41

Isn't much demand for keyboards after the hobby exploded around 2020 or so

Hahaha that's when my last SKCM blue review was xDDD .

mohawk1367 · « **Reply #6563 on:** Mon, 18 September 2023, 08:04:22 »

Quote from: chyros on Tue, 29 August 2023, 01:31:56

Quote from: Rhienfo on Fri, 25 August 2023, 22:24:41
Isn't much demand for keyboards after the hobby exploded around 2020 or so
Hahaha that's when my last SKCM blue review was xDDD .

Your videos are what drove me to try Alps LOL.

Rob27shred · « **Reply #6564 on:** Sun, 08 October 2023, 06:11:30 »

Quote from: mohawk1367 on Mon, 18 September 2023, 08:04:22

Quote from: chyros on Tue, 29 August 2023, 01:31:56
Quote from: Rhienfo on Fri, 25 August 2023, 22:24:41
Isn't much demand for keyboards after the hobby exploded around 2020 or so
Hahaha that's when my last SKCM blue review was xDDD .

Your videos are what drove me to try Alps LOL.

Same here, if Chyros can't sell you on ALPS no one can! Speaking of, my latest ALPS acquisition...

Rhienfo · « **Reply #6565 on:** Sun, 08 October 2023, 17:02:49 »

Quote from: Rob27shred on Sun, 08 October 2023, 06:11:30

Same here, if Chyros can't sell you on ALPS no one can! Speaking of, my latest ALPS acquisition...

Nice, brown alps are probably my favourite tactile/clicky alps. I remember trying a lot of alps at a meetup and they were kinda underwhelming. Especially Blues, weren't as clicky as I thought they would be. Brown alps were pretty nice but maybe it was because we were standing and I wasn't typing but they felt kinda light in tactility in comparison to like 55g topre. The linears were pretty smooth and enjoyable though.

Rob27shred · « **Reply #6566 on:** Mon, 09 October 2023, 09:04:18 »

Quote from: Rhienfo on Sun, 08 October 2023, 17:02:49

Quote from: Rob27shred on Sun, 08 October 2023, 06:11:30
Same here, if Chyros can't sell you on ALPS no one can! Speaking of, my latest ALPS acquisition...

Nice, brown alps are probably my favourite tactile/clicky alps. I remember trying a lot of alps at a meetup and they were kinda underwhelming. Especially Blues, weren't as clicky as I thought they would be. Brown alps were pretty nice but maybe it was because we were standing and I wasn't typing but they felt kinda light in tactility in comparison to like 55g topre. The linears were pretty smooth and enjoyable though.

Thanks, yeah SKCM browns do have a special feel to them. I believe it's because they use a plastic plate & dummy actuation leaf for the tactility. It really depends on condition heavily as to how SKCM/L ALPS feel IME. I've felt great examples & terrible examples of almost all the variants. I would say to give Ambers a try if you found blues not that tactile.

fops · « **Reply #6567 on:** Mon, 09 October 2023, 10:51:47 »

another +1 on chyros alps-pilling me. I've been assembling parts for a 60% board and realized that my AEK2 keycaps aren't going to fit on the h60 I ordered. I've decided that I'm going to get a WOB set and am wondering if anyone can compare the DCS WOB set that's fulfilling GB pretty soon and something like Tai-Hao's alps. I've heard there's some issues with them breaking from removal, is this something that I really need to be worried about? Thanks.

Rob27shred · « **Reply #6568 on:** Mon, 09 October 2023, 12:43:07 »

Quote from: fops on Mon, 09 October 2023, 10:51:47

another +1 on chyros alps-pilling me. I've been assembling parts for a 60% board and realized that my AEK2 keycaps aren't going to fit on the h60 I ordered. I've decided that I'm going to get a WOB set and am wondering if anyone can compare the DCS WOB set that's fulfilling GB pretty soon and something like Tai-Hao's alps. I've heard there's some issues with them breaking from removal, is this something that I really need to be worried about? Thanks.

Yes the stems are fragile with DCS doubleshot ABS ALPS cap & easy to break when pulling them from a board. Tai Hao is tougher, but also OEM profile, not as nice legends, & you give up a ton of compatibility that DCS ALPS has going with Tai Hao. As long as you are aware of the fragility of the stems on DCS & are careful removing them they're all good IME though.

mohawk1367 · « **Reply #6569 on:** Wed, 11 October 2023, 07:00:38 »

i got a CA66 yesterday with NOS SKCM Blue switches and its really great. my first time using blue alps that actually were in good condition and clicked properly

Pretendo · « **Reply #6570 on:** Tue, 17 October 2023, 09:27:44 »

Got my first Alps board not too long ago, an SKCL Green, built into a Sharp PA-1000H thermal typewriter.

I fell ass-backwards into it. Saw the thermal writer at a local recycle center, was curious about how it worked, picked it up for $5, and discovered later (to my delight) that it had very good condition SKCL green switches. The fact that it has an integrated dust cover definitely helped keep these smooth.

The keys are nice doubleshots with no yellowing.

The only linears I have to compare these to are MX reds and some vintage calculator magnetic reed switches. Their smoothness kind of falls in between, the reeds are just unbeatable for that, but I find the Alps switches very nice to type on. The tiny hidden tactile bump at the actuation point seems to help me make less mistakes using it and the weighting is just about perfect. Definitely my favorite linears so far, and from what I've read a high bar to beat.

I quite like the machine itself for what it is, so I'm not looking to cannibalize it to make a 60%. At best I may someday do a soft reversible mod which allows for keyboard use; there's plenty of room in the case to stuff a converter.

I did a full review here, but be warned that it largely focuses on the machine itself:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=121614.0

mohawk1367 · « **Reply #6571 on:** Tue, 17 October 2023, 13:01:43 »

Quote from: Pretendo on Tue, 17 October 2023, 09:27:44

Got my first Alps board not too long ago, an SKCL Green, built into a Sharp PA-1000H thermal typewriter.

I fell ass-backwards into it. Saw the thermal writer at a local recycle center, was curious about how it worked, picked it up for $5, and discovered later (to my delight) that it had very good condition SKCL green switches. The fact that it has an integrated dust cover definitely helped keep these smooth.

Show Image

Show Image

The keys are nice doubleshots with no yellowing.

The only linears I have to compare these to are MX reds and some vintage calculator magnetic reed switches. Their smoothness kind of falls in between, the reeds are just unbeatable for that, but I find the Alps switches very nice to type on. The tiny hidden tactile bump at the actuation point seems to help me make less mistakes using it and the weighting is just about perfect. Definitely my favorite linears so far, and from what I've read a high bar to beat.

I quite like the machine itself for what it is, so I'm not looking to cannibalize it to make a 60%. At best I may someday do a soft reversible mod which allows for keyboard use; there's plenty of room in the case to stuff a converter.

I did a full review here, but be warned that it largely focuses on the machine itself:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=121614.0

why does everyone else have recycling centers that let u buy stuff but my city doesnt im gonna cry

Rhienfo · « **Reply #6572 on:** Tue, 17 October 2023, 21:28:16 »

Quote from: mohawk1367 on Tue, 17 October 2023, 13:01:43

why does everyone else have recycling centers that let u buy stuff but my city doesnt im gonna cry

Melbourne has some recycling centres which let you buy stuff, even in the more southern suburbs there are quite a bit.

Not much though, especially when it comes to keyboards as there are only cheapo rubber domes. Coolest thing I found so far was a complete ps1 for cheap.

mohawk1367 · « **Reply #6573 on:** Wed, 18 October 2023, 07:15:52 »

Quote from: Rhienfo on Tue, 17 October 2023, 21:28:16

Quote from: mohawk1367 on Tue, 17 October 2023, 13:01:43
why does everyone else have recycling centers that let u buy stuff but my city doesnt im gonna cry

Melbourne has some recycling centres which let you buy stuff, even in the more southern suburbs there are quite a bit.

Not much though, especially when it comes to keyboards as there are only cheapo rubber domes. Coolest thing I found so far was a complete ps1 for cheap.

i know for a fact that my recycling center has some decent stuff (rust belt american city, home of xerox) but the only issue is that they also have literal armed guards. ive even called them and they say i wouldnt be able to buy anything because it could have data on it... a KEYBOARD

Pretendo · « **Reply #6574 on:** Wed, 18 October 2023, 07:57:02 »

Quote from: mohawk1367 on Tue, 17 October 2023, 13:01:43

why does everyone else have recycling centers that let u buy stuff but my city doesnt im gonna cry

Okay so this wasn't technically a recycle center. I left out details for brevity. It was more of a locally owned "thrift store" which almost acts as a recycle center. They take in stuff no normal thrift store would and sell it for dirt cheap, with the idea that hobbyists will have some use for it. Things like small used hand tools, boxes of assorted power transformers, computer wires, typewriters, old video cameras, etc. The owner is sort of an electronics hobbyist so you'll see some oddball stuff come in from time to time.

It's not something run by the city, so technically not "recycling center" but that's very much the intention.

Now, you're in Rochester... I wouldn't make a special trip for this since it's very hit an miss for 4 hours of driving, but if you're ever going downstate using highway 81 and want to pop in, the place I'm talking about here is the Cortland Reuse Center in Cortland NY. They're in the middle of a location change so I'd steer clear until mid November at least, and it's fairly uncommon that I actually find something valuable there (though they've been great for things like light fixtures and other small projects around the house), I just live close enough where I can pop in fairly often. If you do manage to make it down here, keep your expectations low.

FWIW New York does have some recycle centers that let you buy stuff. I went to college in New Paltz downstate, and they had one. Ithaca might also be a good bet, but I haven't checked that out personally.

mohawk1367 · « **Reply #6575 on:** Wed, 18 October 2023, 08:29:29 »

Quote from: Pretendo on Wed, 18 October 2023, 07:57:02

Quote from: mohawk1367 on Tue, 17 October 2023, 13:01:43
why does everyone else have recycling centers that let u buy stuff but my city doesnt im gonna cry

Okay so this wasn't technically a recycle center. I left out details for brevity. It was more of a locally owned "thrift store" which almost acts as a recycle center. They take in stuff no normal thrift store would and sell it for dirt cheap, with the idea that hobbyists will have some use for it. Things like small used hand tools, boxes of assorted power transformers, computer wires, typewriters, old video cameras, etc. The owner is sort of an electronics hobbyist so you'll see some oddball stuff come in from time to time.

It's not something run by the city, so technically not "recycling center" but that's very much the intention.

Now, you're in Rochester... I wouldn't make a special trip for this since it's very hit an miss for 4 hours of driving, but if you're ever going downstate using highway 81 and want to pop in, the place I'm talking about here is the Cortland Reuse Center in Cortland NY. They're in the middle of a location change so I'd steer clear until mid November at least, and it's fairly uncommon that I actually find something valuable there (though they've been great for things like light fixtures and other small projects around the house), I just live close enough where I can pop in fairly often. If you do manage to make it down here, keep your expectations low.

FWIW New York does have some recycle centers that let you buy stuff. I went to college in New Paltz downstate, and they had one. Ithaca might also be a good bet, but I haven't checked that out personally.

i was literally JUST downstate in NYC on like Sunday lol

Pretendo · « **Reply #6576 on:** Wed, 18 October 2023, 09:47:42 »

Oops. Next time.

Most likely you wouldn't have found anything. The keyboards they have right now are all rubber dome. They do have a few electric/electronic typewriters but nothing with interesting switches. It's very much a shot in the dark when they have interesting stuff. Their Sunday hours are also very limited so you may not have been able to catch them open.

There HAS to be a place in or near Rochester doing something similar. That area has to be crawling with awesome old computer stuff.

Katherinesparks · « **Reply #6577 on:** Sun, 31 March 2024, 02:33:32 »

Quote from: Rhienfo on Sun, 08 October 2023, 17:02:49

Quote from: Rob27shred on Sun, 08 October 2023, 06:11:30
Same here, if Chyros can't sell you on ALPS no one can! Speaking of, my latest ALPS acquisition...

Nice, brown alps are probably my favourite tactile/clicky alps. I remember trying a lot of alps at a meetup and they were kinda underwhelming. Especially Blues, weren't as clicky as I thought they would be. Brown alps were pretty nice but maybe it was because we were standing and I wasn't typing but they felt kinda light in tactility in comparison to like 55g topre. The linears were pretty smooth and enjoyable though.

I love blue because they click loudly, and it gives me a feeling that I'm a writer typing on a typewriter.

TomahawkLabs · « **Reply #6578 on:** Tue, 02 April 2024, 09:22:56 »

I started breaking down 200+ Black Alps (Bamboo) from a Dell AT-101W. They need to be disassembled, cleaned by hand, ultra-sonic clean, lube, and reassemble.

Has anyone done the wax boil method? If so, how does it compare to using a lightweight Deflon Silicone as traditionally has been used in switch lubing?

Has anyone ever done a wax boil on a damped switch? How did it affect the rubber in the slider?

News:

Author Topic: Alps Appreciation Thread (Read 2449102 times)