Author Topic: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread  (Read 427464 times)

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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #950 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 16:28:44 »
Got something new to house my notebooks in :D.


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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #951 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 16:43:25 »
Got something new to house my notebooks in :D.
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #952 on: Thu, 16 July 2015, 17:07:22 »
Is this blasphemy?

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You spelled "****ty" wrong in the first line :(. Nothing wrong with ballpoints though. Sometimes you need them.

I can think of just two such times - birthday cards (shiny) and cheap envelopes (too absorbent)

My pens live at work as I have little reason to write at home (aside from birthday cards...) but I have one here now ready to send off for a sac reattachment.  It may be old but still works great, apart from the leak!



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Offline genkidama

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #953 on: Sun, 19 July 2015, 16:40:27 »
Hey guys, you know of a way to get the ink out of cartridges? I recently received some and would like to use them in some way as I'm using converters in my pens.
Is there a way for this without getting too much ink on my hands? It's such a hassle to get the ink stains off my hands :-\

Woohoo I finally received my Pilot Metropolitan pens, will try and post some words about how the writing feels like. I got them with a fine and medium nib (the medium one got my girlfriend). I'm particularly eager to know how the fine will feel like to my fine Kaweco  :rolleyes:


e: Any suggestions for removal of ink stains on the hands are much appreciated. I tried with hairspray and baby oil and it rubs off quite slowly, you guys have any other suggestions? I do not own rubbing alcohol, probably need to buy some and also try that, I bet this'll help quicker?
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 July 2015, 16:45:34 by genkidama »
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #954 on: Sun, 19 July 2015, 16:44:50 »
Hey guys, you know of a way to get the ink out of cartridges? I recently received some and would like to use them in some way as I'm using converters in my pens.
Is there a way for this without getting too much ink on my hands? It's such a hassle to get the ink stains off my hands :-\

If you're into fountain pens, get used to ink on your hands. Comes with the territory. Or be more careful when you're working and wear gloves.

You can use a syringe out of an ink cartridge. These aren't specifically for ink. Any medical or plastic syringe will work as long as the tip fits into the cartridge.

Offline genkidama

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #955 on: Sun, 19 July 2015, 16:47:49 »
Hey guys, you know of a way to get the ink out of cartridges? I recently received some and would like to use them in some way as I'm using converters in my pens.
Is there a way for this without getting too much ink on my hands? It's such a hassle to get the ink stains off my hands :-\

If you're into fountain pens, get used to ink on your hands. Comes with the territory. Or be more careful when you're working and wear gloves.
I try to get used to this, I only think it looks weird for people at work if my thumb, index finger etc. are so blue, especially if you get yourself a blue ink mustache  :))

You can use a syringe out of an ink cartridge. These aren't specifically for ink. Any medical or plastic syringe will work as long as the tip fits into the cartridge.
Thanks, I'll get the tip for the syringe. How do you say this in english? Miss the wood for the trees? In German it would translate into: Not seeing the wood due to too many trees
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 July 2015, 16:51:09 by genkidama »
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #956 on: Sun, 19 July 2015, 16:49:33 »
I try to get used to this, I only think it looks weird for people at work if my thumb, index finger etc. are so blue, especially if you get yourself a blue ink mustache  :))

People come into work on Monday with motor oil on their hands from working on their cars and motorcycles. Who cares?

Any suggestions for removal of ink stains on the hands are much appreciated. I tried with hairspray and baby oil and it rubs off quite slowly, you guys have any other suggestions? I do not own rubbing alcohol, probably need to buy some and also try that, I bet this'll help quicker?

I find washing your hands with shampoo helps. Also you can try something like Gojo Handsoap or abrasive handsoaps.

Offline genkidama

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #957 on: Sun, 19 July 2015, 17:01:47 »
I try to get used to this, I only think it looks weird for people at work if my thumb, index finger etc. are so blue, especially if you get yourself a blue ink mustache  :))
People come into work on Monday with motor oil on their hands from working on their cars and motorcycles. Who cares?
It depends on the job, if you have job related motor oil on your hands it's okay. But I'm working at a bank and have client contact at times. Doesn't go that well I'd say. It has a lot to do with standing/prestige.

Thanks for the pumice / abrasive handsoaps; I didn't know of this.
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Offline Air tree

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #958 on: Sun, 19 July 2015, 17:20:45 »
I use some kind laundry soap and that gets the ink off my hands pretty well..

Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #959 on: Sun, 19 July 2015, 19:31:04 »
Hey guys, you know of a way to get the ink out of cartridges? I recently received some and would like to use them in some way as I'm using converters in my pens.
Is there a way for this without getting too much ink on my hands? It's such a hassle to get the ink stains off my hands :-\

If you're into fountain pens, get used to ink on your hands. Comes with the territory. Or be more careful when you're working and wear gloves.

You can use a syringe out of an ink cartridge. These aren't specifically for ink. Any medical or plastic syringe will work as long as the tip fits into the cartridge.

If you have a c/c pen then just use the cartridges. It's honestly much more convenient if you have them already. Although my preference is definitely bottled ink.
That being said, it might be an issue if the cartridges aren't compatible. Many pens use proprietary cartridges.
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Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #960 on: Mon, 20 July 2015, 10:36:25 »
Got this one in the mail.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #961 on: Mon, 20 July 2015, 10:38:52 »
Ooo a Visconti. I'm really digging their Homo Sapiens Lava Bronze. What nib did you get?

Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #962 on: Mon, 20 July 2015, 10:51:47 »
Ooo a Visconti. I'm really digging their Homo Sapiens Lava Bronze. What nib did you get?

It's a medium.
I got it from a classifieds for a really nice price. Usually I like finer nibs but I can easily get this reground if I wanted to and it would still cost less than a new pen. I also decided I should make my writing larger since it's very tight and small; a medium nib might help in that regard.

The lava bronze is definitely cool. But that Florentine hills binge has... Most beautiful demonstrator I have seen. The crystal is also equally good.
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Offline Binge

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #963 on: Mon, 20 July 2015, 11:26:55 »
Ooo a Visconti. I'm really digging their Homo Sapiens Lava Bronze. What nib did you get?

It's a medium.
I got it from a classifieds for a really nice price. Usually I like finer nibs but I can easily get this reground if I wanted to and it would still cost less than a new pen. I also decided I should make my writing larger since it's very tight and small; a medium nib might help in that regard.

The lava bronze is definitely cool. But that Florentine hills binge has... Most beautiful demonstrator I have seen. The crystal is also equally good.

Oh mang, I love my visconti pens.  Definitely want to get a Bronze this Christmas.  Love the vac fillers.  The model you've got there has a chromium alloy nib.  Probably great for a medium.  If it is having any issues working let me know.  I know about how much can be done @home with those mechanisms and what issues you would have to send away to have fixed.  Still beautiful pen.  I wish they had a nicer nib, but that mosquito filler is to die for.
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Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #964 on: Mon, 20 July 2015, 12:06:02 »
Ooo a Visconti. I'm really digging their Homo Sapiens Lava Bronze. What nib did you get?

It's a medium.
I got it from a classifieds for a really nice price. Usually I like finer nibs but I can easily get this reground if I wanted to and it would still cost less than a new pen. I also decided I should make my writing larger since it's very tight and small; a medium nib might help in that regard.

The lava bronze is definitely cool. But that Florentine hills binge has... Most beautiful demonstrator I have seen. The crystal is also equally good.

Oh mang, I love my visconti pens.  Definitely want to get a Bronze this Christmas.  Love the vac fillers.  The model you've got there has a chromium alloy nib.  Probably great for a medium.  If it is having any issues working let me know.  I know about how much can be done @home with those mechanisms and what issues you would have to send away to have fixed.  Still beautiful pen.  I wish they had a nicer nib, but that mosquito filler is to die for.

The one thing I don't like about the nib is the laser engraving. It's not very clean at all. Mine is a beautiful writer though. The feed keeps up and the flow is great.
One cool thing is that the smaller nib units on visconti pens are interchangeable. I could get a palladium nib if I wanted. Or even a gold one if I was lucky enough to find one.
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Offline Binge

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #965 on: Mon, 20 July 2015, 12:20:52 »
Ooo a Visconti. I'm really digging their Homo Sapiens Lava Bronze. What nib did you get?

It's a medium.
I got it from a classifieds for a really nice price. Usually I like finer nibs but I can easily get this reground if I wanted to and it would still cost less than a new pen. I also decided I should make my writing larger since it's very tight and small; a medium nib might help in that regard.

The lava bronze is definitely cool. But that Florentine hills binge has... Most beautiful demonstrator I have seen. The crystal is also equally good.

Oh mang, I love my visconti pens.  Definitely want to get a Bronze this Christmas.  Love the vac fillers.  The model you've got there has a chromium alloy nib.  Probably great for a medium.  If it is having any issues working let me know.  I know about how much can be done @home with those mechanisms and what issues you would have to send away to have fixed.  Still beautiful pen.  I wish they had a nicer nib, but that mosquito filler is to die for.

The one thing I don't like about the nib is the laser engraving. It's not very clean at all. Mine is a beautiful writer though. The feed keeps up and the flow is great.
One cool thing is that the smaller nib units on visconti pens are interchangeable. I could get a palladium nib if I wanted. Or even a gold one if I was lucky enough to find one.

Palladium = best

They spoiled me.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #966 on: Mon, 20 July 2015, 17:15:52 »


Your boy is about to level up his print. Just got this book from a Co worker who learned actual drafting.

Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #967 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 11:01:52 »
I'm really digging their Homo Sapiens Lava Bronze.

A tempting offer for you...
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Offline genkidama

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #968 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 11:53:54 »
If you have a c/c pen then just use the cartridges. It's honestly much more convenient if you have them already. Although my preference is definitely bottled ink.
That being said, it might be an issue if the cartridges aren't compatible. Many pens use proprietary cartridges.

What is a c/c pen? I recently bought the Pilot Metropolitan and it's more expensive to buy the Pilot cartridges than using the converter. The cartridges I received are more a less for Pelikan pens but fit in most common fountain pens you can buy here in Germany.

Can someone give me a suggestion what to do with the Pilot Metropolitan with a fine nib to get the ink flow more fluently? I already flushed it yesterday and let it dry. I've put the converter back in and at first it was really really difficult getting ink out. After some light pressure of the tip of the nib against the paper it flowed better but still was inconsistent.
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Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #969 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 12:40:57 »
If you have a c/c pen then just use the cartridges. It's honestly much more convenient if you have them already. Although my preference is definitely bottled ink.
That being said, it might be an issue if the cartridges aren't compatible. Many pens use proprietary cartridges.

What is a c/c pen? I recently bought the Pilot Metropolitan and it's more expensive to buy the Pilot cartridges than using the converter. The cartridges I received are more a less for Pelikan pens but fit in most common fountain pens you can buy here in Germany.

Can someone give me a suggestion what to do with the Pilot Metropolitan with a fine nib to get the ink flow more fluently? I already flushed it yesterday and let it dry. I've put the converter back in and at first it was really really difficult getting ink out. After some light pressure of the tip of the nib against the paper it flowed better but still was inconsistent.

C/C just means cartridge/converter. All pens that use converters can use cartridges. If you have cartridges already I wouldn't go through the effort of extracting it unless they aren't compatible.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #970 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 12:43:43 »
Can someone give me a suggestion what to do with the Pilot Metropolitan with a fine nib to get the ink flow more fluently? I already flushed it yesterday and let it dry. I've put the converter back in and at first it was really really difficult getting ink out. After some light pressure of the tip of the nib against the paper it flowed better but still was inconsistent.

Use a different ink. That one obviously isn't working for you.

C/C just means cartridge/converter. All pens that use converters can use cartridges. If you have cartridges already I wouldn't go through the effort of extracting it unless they aren't compatible.

You sure about that? Not sure if you could use cartridges in Bexleys, Nakayas, or Edisons. But I guess I've never tried it either.

A tempting offer for you...

Not tempting. A plane ticket or a pen for the same price. I'll take a plane ticket.
« Last Edit: Tue, 21 July 2015, 12:45:47 by CPTBadAss »

Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #971 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 12:52:53 »
C/C just means cartridge/converter. All pens that use converters can use cartridges. If you have cartridges already I wouldn't go through the effort of extracting it unless they aren't compatible.

You sure about that? Not sure if you could use cartridges in Bexleys, Nakayas, or Edisons. But I guess I've never tried it either.


I could be wrong since I am still new to this.
I know that Nakaya does sell their own cartridges and if I recall they use Platinum converters which means that Platinum cartridges will work.
The most common cartridge is the standard international but many companies choose to make their own proprietary stuff.
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Offline genkidama

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #972 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 13:54:58 »
Never knew the ink could be such a problem for a pen, I'll look to buy Pelikan Edelstein bottled ink. Should I switch to another brand as I tried some other Pelikan ink or is it more like the ink from the same company still can be different depending on the product you buy. So that it doesn't mean that I can't use any Pelikan ink?
I hope that came out right :)
I'm not sure if this will effect anything at all. It's just that in sports I don't buy from a specific local brand as the products are okay but tend to torn, seem low-quality and stuff like that. I assume those characteristics can also be found on other products from the same company. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Unfortunately the cartridges I received aren't compatible as they are from Pelikan and have a totally different formfactor =/
I'll try to find some other ink, depending on what you guys say about using ink from the same brand but different products.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #973 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 14:19:38 »
The problem with inks is that the companies don't have to tell us what's in them. How a company makes their blue ink might be different from how they make a brown ink. That formulation difference, how you write, your current environment, and paper will change your writing experience. Pelikan blue may perform different from pelikan black for you.

Fun fact about pelikan, it might be made in Germany and is owned by a Malaysian company. Technically it's a Malaysian brand imo.

Also? Pelikan Edelstein ink is often called the driest ink and people have complaints about its flow.
« Last Edit: Tue, 21 July 2015, 14:28:39 by CPTBadAss »

Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #974 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 14:24:38 »
The problem with inks is that the companies don't have to tell us what's in them. How a company makes their blue ink might be different from how they make a brown ink. That formulation difference, how you write, your current environment, and paper will change your writing experience. Pelikan blue may perform different from pelikan black for you.

Fun fact about pelikan, it might be made in Germany and is owned by a Malaysian company. Technically it's a Malaysian brand imo.

Very true indeed. I recall that Iroshizuku inks are known to all dry within 5 seconds but their latest 3 inks have a much longer dry time than usual.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #975 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 14:28:25 »
Very true indeed. I recall that Iroshizuku inks are known to all dry within 5 seconds but their latest 3 inks have a much longer dry time than usual.

This is something that happened with the Diamine 1670 ink series. Two different inks (Ocean Blue and Stormy Grey) have a gold-colored flake in the ink. Ocean Blue originally did not have gold flecks. The fountain pen enthusiast community only figured it out after someone posted pictures of their new bottle of Ocean Blue vs their old bottle. Stormy Grey originally had larger flecks of gold and would clog pens. They've since changed the ink formulation. But no one knows when or which batches have the change so you have to do a ton of trial and error in testing inks.

Offline genkidama

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #976 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 15:10:29 »
The problem with inks is that the companies don't have to tell us what's in them. How a company makes their blue ink might be different from how they make a brown ink. That formulation difference, how you write, your current environment, and paper will change your writing experience. Pelikan blue may perform different from pelikan black for you.

Fun fact about pelikan, it might be made in Germany and is owned by a Malaysian company. Technically it's a Malaysian brand imo.

Also? Pelikan Edelstein ink is often called the driest ink and people have complaints about its flow.

Good to know! Never really got into that ink part so deep, I thought that everything is somewhat the same production-wise. If I understand you correctly the Edelstein ink compared to some standard Pelikan ink could be totally different although they are blue inks right?

I only want the Edelstein ink because you recommended them to me. I'm a lefty and most of the time I smurdge while writing, I'm just too quick writing ^^ I also tried writing underhand and stuff, but this is very bothersome and when in need to write quick I go back to what I'm used to. But that's why you recommended Edelstein ink and I would like to try it.
But: As I got a Japanese fine nib and it is really really thin while writing, whats your thought on using Edelstein ink? If not so good, any other recommendations on inks I can use as a lefty? I've seen Diamine (Sapphire Blue just like Edelstein's ink), J. Herbin (1670 or something like that) and some others but they all seem to be very wet. If the dry Edelstein ink is too dry I bet a "balanced" ink is the choice here, isn't it?
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #977 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 15:14:21 »
If I understand you correctly the Edelstein ink compared to some standard Pelikan ink could be totally different although they are blue inks right?

Yes. Every single Pelikan or Pelikan Edelstein ink can perform differently from another. Color does not mean they will perform the same. That is the same for every single other ink and ink company.

I only want the Edelstein ink because you recommended them to me. I'm a lefty and most of the time I smurdge while writing, I'm just too quick writing ^^ I also tried writing underhand and stuff, but this is very bothersome and when in need to write quick I go back to what I'm used to. But that's why you recommended Edelstein ink and I would like to try it.
But: As I got a Japanese fine nib and it is really really thin while writing, whats your thought on using Edelstein ink? If not so good, any other recommendations on inks I can use as a lefty? I've seen Diamine (Sapphire Blue just like Edelstein's ink), J. Herbin (1670 or something like that) and some others but they all seem to be very wet. If the dry Edelstein ink is too dry I bet a "balanced" ink is the choice here, isn't it?

As always, I recommend Diamine, Noodler's, J Herbin (Not 1670, just normal), and Pilot Iroshizuku. I'm not a lefty. I don't know anyone who is a left so I cannot comment personally on what would work for you. My advice is to find a website or retailer that sells ink samples, grabbing a few, and testing it for yourself.

Also japanese fine? That could be a problem in itself. Perhaps your writing style doesn't fit the nib you're using. Could you get your hands on a Pilot Medium?

That's the problem with going on some stranger's recommendation on fountain pens online. Just because I recommend it to you doesn't mean it works for you. You honestly should just test things out for yourself instead of heavily relying on stuff I hear second hand and relay to you (since I'm not a lefty).

Offline Skuloth

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #978 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 15:14:45 »
The problem with inks is that the companies don't have to tell us what's in them. How a company makes their blue ink might be different from how they make a brown ink. That formulation difference, how you write, your current environment, and paper will change your writing experience. Pelikan blue may perform different from pelikan black for you.

Fun fact about pelikan, it might be made in Germany and is owned by a Malaysian company. Technically it's a Malaysian brand imo.

Also? Pelikan Edelstein ink is often called the driest ink and people have complaints about its flow.

Good to know! Never really got into that ink part so deep, I thought that everything is somewhat the same production-wise. If I understand you correctly the Edelstein ink compared to some standard Pelikan ink could be totally different although they are blue inks right?


This is correct.

In addition Pelikan inks could be totally different than other Pelikan inks.

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Offline demik

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #979 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 15:50:10 »
Noodler's bulletproof dries pretty quick iirc and it's hard to smudge off.
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Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #980 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 15:59:24 »
Noodler's bulletproof dries pretty quick iirc and it's hard to smudge off.

Just be careful if your pen uses an ink sac. The acidic nature of Noodler's inks can ruin them very quickly. Should be fine for most pens though.
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Offline genkidama

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #981 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 17:03:03 »
I only want the Edelstein ink because you recommended them to me. I'm a lefty and most of the time I smurdge while writing, I'm just too quick writing ^^ I also tried writing underhand and stuff, but this is very bothersome and when in need to write quick I go back to what I'm used to. But that's why you recommended Edelstein ink and I would like to try it.
But: As I got a Japanese fine nib and it is really really thin while writing, whats your thought on using Edelstein ink? If not so good, any other recommendations on inks I can use as a lefty? I've seen Diamine (Sapphire Blue just like Edelstein's ink), J. Herbin (1670 or something like that) and some others but they all seem to be very wet. If the dry Edelstein ink is too dry I bet a "balanced" ink is the choice here, isn't it?
As always, I recommend Diamine, Noodler's, J Herbin (Not 1670, just normal), and Pilot Iroshizuku. I'm not a lefty. I don't know anyone who is a left so I cannot comment personally on what would work for you. My advice is to find a website or retailer that sells ink samples, grabbing a few, and testing it for yourself.

Also japanese fine? That could be a problem in itself. Perhaps your writing style doesn't fit the nib you're using. Could you get your hands on a Pilot Medium?
Yeah I can have one, my girlfriend has the medium one but uses the one Pilot cartridge that came along with the package. So I'm not sure if this'll make any difference for me, my writing style. Personally I love the thin line when writing with the japanese fine. I compared it to my Kaweco Fine and the Kaweco is so thick that I fell more in love with the japanese fine.

That's the problem with going on some stranger's recommendation on fountain pens online. Just because I recommend it to you doesn't mean it works for you. You honestly should just test things out for yourself instead of heavily relying on stuff I hear second hand and relay to you (since I'm not a lefty).
I know I shouldn't rely on things I get from the internet from you or others. The thing is I make the most out of it as I do not have a local shop which have a variety of inks I could sample (tried a lot of shops around here where I live). My other problem is that finding an online shop with decent shipping costs whatsoever is difficult as well. It's like you all recommended using Lamy or Kaweco as they are German brands, but Kaweco is practically non-existent here and the one shop there is almost only have the Kaweco Sport.

Long story short I'm not that much relying onto it, so don't worry mate :thumb: and still I do need some info as you and others are more experienced and know one or the other thing of inks, pens and stuff. As I've learned it last weekend, learning to do home improvement by yourself or having someone giving you tips, showing some handles is a big difference and you learn a lot quicker with someone experienced. :) So I just wanted to try the Edelstein ink as it had a beautiful color and a decent price and and is rather more available here than other brands.
As of right now I'm kinda limited with where I can get specific items other than on massdrop (if I'm lucky) or amazon having a good day and dropping the price for different items. In time this will change as there maybe is a community around here that I yet have to find.

I'm not terribly comfortable with my english and maybe some texts from me seem to be very sheepish or naive, but that's just my english and my way of constructing a sentence, use of words etc. I'm just not that used to it  :rolleyes:
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Offline Binge

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #982 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 19:26:36 »
Noodler's bulletproof dries pretty quick iirc and it's hard to smudge off.

Just be careful if your pen uses an ink sac. The acidic nature of Noodler's inks can ruin them very quickly. Should be fine for most pens though.

Most noodler's inks are pH neutral.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #983 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 19:39:44 »
Just be careful if your pen uses an ink sac. The acidic nature of Noodler's inks can ruin them very quickly. Should be fine for most pens though.

Has this happened to you? Have you tried Noodler's in an ink sac? If so that's perfectly fine but there's a lot of misinformation about Noodler's imo. I have tried it in an ink sac. It's fine. The thing with Noodler's Ink is that the maker is crazy and makes all of these really odd inks. For example he's got a laser proof ink. His conventional inks are perfectly fine, even in vintage pens. It's when you start messing with his weird property inks that weird stuff happens to pens and then people complain.

I ran an experiment when I left Baystate Blue in a pen (Lamy Al Star) for 4 months without cleaning it. Works fine and it wasn't that stained. Didn't melt or anything as you would be led to believe by reading for the forums.

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #984 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 20:08:47 »
Noodler's bulletproof dries pretty quick iirc and it's hard to smudge off.

Just be careful if your pen uses an ink sac. The acidic nature of Noodler's inks can ruin them very quickly. Should be fine for most pens though.

Most noodler's inks are pH neutral.

Bulletproof Polar Brown is my every day ink, and it is the only ink I use to write my notes in my lab notebook.   I could run a pH test on it tomorrow if anyone would be interested.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #985 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 20:09:29 »
Bulletproof Polar Brown is my every day ink, and it is the only ink I use to write my notes in my lab notebook.   I could run a pH test on it tomorrow if anyone would be interested.

I'm extremely interested. In fact, if you don't mind, could I send you some other inks? My everyday is Noodler's North African Violet.

Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #986 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 20:24:40 »
Bulletproof Polar Brown is my every day ink, and it is the only ink I use to write my notes in my lab notebook.   I could run a pH test on it tomorrow if anyone would be interested.

I'm extremely interested. In fact, if you don't mind, could I send you some other inks? My everyday is Noodler's North African Violet.

I'd be happy to.  PM if you need me to give you my address again.  Testing with a pH strip would be difficult since the analysis is based on color change.  I will do them all at once on the pH probe.  It gives more precise results (+/- .01 pH unit).  But I will need ~2 mL to do that test, whereas the pH strip would only require 4 drops.

Offline demik

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #987 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 20:57:25 »
#noodlersgang
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Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #988 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 21:06:47 »
Just be careful if your pen uses an ink sac. The acidic nature of Noodler's inks can ruin them very quickly. Should be fine for most pens though.

Has this happened to you? Have you tried Noodler's in an ink sac? If so that's perfectly fine but there's a lot of misinformation about Noodler's imo. I have tried it in an ink sac. It's fine. The thing with Noodler's Ink is that the maker is crazy and makes all of these really odd inks. For example he's got a laser proof ink. His conventional inks are perfectly fine, even in vintage pens. It's when you start messing with his weird property inks that weird stuff happens to pens and then people complain.

I ran an experiment when I left Baystate Blue in a pen (Lamy Al Star) for 4 months without cleaning it. Works fine and it wasn't that stained. Didn't melt or anything as you would be led to believe by reading for the forums.

This has not happened to me but I have read a post on Greg Minuskin's website claiming that a certain Noodler's ink does this. He is a well recognized nibsmith and pen restoration expert who had a pen sent with a messed up ink sac and was told they used Noodler's.

Like it was mentioned before, inks are all made differently, even if they're the same kind; meaning not all Noodler's will do this. Just proceed with caution.
« Last Edit: Tue, 21 July 2015, 21:09:55 by FrostyToast »
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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #989 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 21:53:35 »
Just be careful if your pen uses an ink sac. The acidic nature of Noodler's inks can ruin them very quickly. Should be fine for most pens though.

Has this happened to you? Have you tried Noodler's in an ink sac? If so that's perfectly fine but there's a lot of misinformation about Noodler's imo. I have tried it in an ink sac. It's fine. The thing with Noodler's Ink is that the maker is crazy and makes all of these really odd inks. For example he's got a laser proof ink. His conventional inks are perfectly fine, even in vintage pens. It's when you start messing with his weird property inks that weird stuff happens to pens and then people complain.

I ran an experiment when I left Baystate Blue in a pen (Lamy Al Star) for 4 months without cleaning it. Works fine and it wasn't that stained. Didn't melt or anything as you would be led to believe by reading for the forums.

This has not happened to me but I have read a post on Greg Minuskin's website claiming that a certain Noodler's ink does this. He is a well recognized nibsmith and pen restoration expert who had a pen sent with a messed up ink sac and was told they used Noodler's.

Like it was mentioned before, inks are all made differently, even if they're the same kind; meaning not all Noodler's will do this. Just proceed with caution.

The hardest part about inks is knowing what is in them... exactly.  There are inks out there that old heads swear by to use with their sacs that will take paint off of furniture.  Quink for example "Quink blue has a pH of 2.7, Quink black, 3.0," is extremely acidic.  Most old style inks are.  Newer inks made to be used in restored pens are very gentile, and noodlers has, over the years, improved upon their formula in order to reach neutral pH.  They mostly get a bad rap because of poor problem solving.  Noodlers?  That's not a brand I remember from the 1950s, it must ruin this vintage pen that someone poorly cleaned and then managed to get noodlers into it before it was serviced.  I've seen the hate in person at pen shows.  People love it until they know what it is unless they aren't trying to impress some rich dude who fact checks over telegraph through a trusted source.  Can't say I trust latex sacs with anything besides water for extended periods.  Moral of the story?  Clean your old pens well and frequently no matter what ink you use.
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Offline BlueNalgene

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #990 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 22:18:25 »
Just be careful if your pen uses an ink sac. The acidic nature of Noodler's inks can ruin them very quickly. Should be fine for most pens though.

Has this happened to you? Have you tried Noodler's in an ink sac? If so that's perfectly fine but there's a lot of misinformation about Noodler's imo. I have tried it in an ink sac. It's fine. The thing with Noodler's Ink is that the maker is crazy and makes all of these really odd inks. For example he's got a laser proof ink. His conventional inks are perfectly fine, even in vintage pens. It's when you start messing with his weird property inks that weird stuff happens to pens and then people complain.

I ran an experiment when I left Baystate Blue in a pen (Lamy Al Star) for 4 months without cleaning it. Works fine and it wasn't that stained. Didn't melt or anything as you would be led to believe by reading for the forums.

This has not happened to me but I have read a post on Greg Minuskin's website claiming that a certain Noodler's ink does this. He is a well recognized nibsmith and pen restoration expert who had a pen sent with a messed up ink sac and was told they used Noodler's.

Like it was mentioned before, inks are all made differently, even if they're the same kind; meaning not all Noodler's will do this. Just proceed with caution.

Thanks for citing your source.  I googled the name and Noodler's and came up with this.  I also found this to be a rather interesting read.

I cannot claim that I know what is going on in these instances, and I don't know what the components of the inks in question are.  Please take my observations with a grain of salt.  There might be something to the claims that this ink can damage the pens with ink sacs.  If so, I doubt it is due to pH.  Most modern ink sacs are made of latex or rubber.  Other materials may have been used in the older 'vintage' pens that Mr. Minuskin works with, but I would not know what they were.  Latex and rubber are quite resistant to somewhat extreme pH values.  That is why we use latex and rubber gloves so often in lab.  They are damaged by other things though.

Consider the following: A sleep deprived grad student named BlueNalgene is working in lab wearing gloves.  Over the course of his sloppy work, he spills three chemicals on the gloves.  The first spill is concentrated hydrochloric acid, the second spill is concentrated nitric acid, and the third spill is tetrahydrofuran.  After each spill, he rinses the gloves off and continues his work.  If we look at each of the spills we would see the following.  The first spill (HCl) would not be visible.  The second spill (HNO_3) would leave the glove slightly orange on that spot. The third spill (THF) would leave a hole in the glove.

The first instance is a strong acid.  Latex is resistant to this, and would not be noticeably affected.  The second one is a strong acid and a strong oxidizer.  The oxidizer would react with some of the latex polymers to, in this case, discolor them.  The third is an organic solvent which does not have a pH.  Latex dissolves readily in this solvent, so it would be expected that it would completely destroy the polymers in the glove. 

The point of my little thought experiment is that the hydrogen ion concentration in the solution should not be damaging the sac.  There are other things that might damage it.  While Mr. Minuskin's observation may be right about Noodler's, pH probably has little to do with it.  The pH would be reasonable to have inflicted the damage that Mr. Binder observed in the second link I provided by pitting metals.

To reiterate: I'm not saying the observation was wrong, just saying their chemistry was wrong.

Here is a nice source for chemical resistance of polymers used in gloves. PDF warning

Offline Larken

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #991 on: Tue, 21 July 2015, 22:24:36 »
Inks within the same brand/line does differ in performance dependent on which colors you pick. Not sure about the Edelstein since the retail price for them in my country put me off getting them, but I've used the 4001 series in a few pens and never had problems with them, except for flex use. Edelstein is supposed to be wetter flowing than the 4001 series from what I've read on the internet; and have decent performance throughout.

There are many inks on the market that are not really pH neutral, but are still used regularly without any issues. Noodler's ink are mostly not dangerous to use by themselves; bsb seems to be just a rather extreme case. The situation that usually causes problems is when there is residual ink of another brand left unflushed in the pen, and noodler's is thrown into the mix, and they react (fyi, this applies to most inks as well; I've had slight staining from mixing pilot blue black and waterman serenity blue, which had to be scrubbed heavily before it came out, and severe staining from mixing waterman serenity blue and pelikan 4001 brilliant red that I still haven't been able to get out of one of my demos.) Just don't mix noodler's another ink, or even another noodler's unless its specifically stated to be a mixing ink like shah's rose, navajo turquoise etc.

And by the way, I've had pens that I ran over 200 ml of water through the feed using a large syringe, saw that the water was extremely clear, and then removed the nib and feed to still find some ink left behind. So there's always the chance that your pens aren't always as cleanly flushed as you thought.

@genkidama - imo it doesn't sound like an ink problem. despite pilot's overall good qc, I have had several pens from them refusing to write/have hard start problems like yours. The tines were too tight together on one, and I had baby bottoms on another. The first was fixed by flossing and spreading the tines with a brass shim, the second, I reground. Try the brass shims first and see if the problem goes away.

just curious, lefty underwriter or overwriter? if you're an underwriter, you don't really need a fast drying ink. Otherwise, there's a few inks you could look at - Noodler's Bernanke Blue (fast dry), Sailor Sei-Boku (nano particle ink, blue-black, very fast to dry too). I'm lefthanded, write under the line, and use japanese ef and f nibs on a daily basis without issue.

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Offline nubbinator

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #992 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 11:37:36 »
Has anyone tried the TWSBI Eco?  It looks like an interesting affordable pen.

Offline genkidama

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #993 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 14:22:44 »
@genkidama - imo it doesn't sound like an ink problem. despite pilot's overall good qc, I have had several pens from them refusing to write/have hard start problems like yours. The tines were too tight together on one, and I had baby bottoms on another. The first was fixed by flossing and spreading the tines with a brass shim, the second, I reground. Try the brass shims first and see if the problem goes away.
Sorry for the late response!
I'll try that if the other ink (I got a Pilot cartridge for the Metropolitan) won't work. I feel like from the first time I had problems I scratched the paper and probably got some small paper pieces stuck on the the tip of the nib. I'll try flushing/washing the nib hopefully that'll do the trick otherwise I'll get into widening the tines like you said.

just curious, lefty underwriter or overwriter? if you're an underwriter, you don't really need a fast drying ink. Otherwise, there's a few inks you could look at - Noodler's Bernanke Blue (fast dry), Sailor Sei-Boku (nano particle ink, blue-black, very fast to dry too). I'm lefthanded, write under the line, and use japanese ef and f nibs on a daily basis without issue.
I'm a lefty overwriter. How can you write under the line? I know it's more of a thing you get used to but right now I can see my hand cramping up writing under the line  :confused:
I would like to try the Edelstein or Diamine ink first as it's more affordable for me to buy than the other inks. I noted yours inks in my notepad ;-) Still I hope it's more an ink problem than too tight tines. I'm just nervous working on them and probably breaking them  :-[

I tried the Pilot Metropolitan Medium and it writes like a charm no scratching or ink flow problems, everything runs smoothly/normal.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #994 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 14:31:44 »
Has anyone tried the TWSBI Eco?  It looks like an interesting affordable pen.

Tried it over the weekend. Definitely recommended. Only issue is that it doesn't post. The piston filler is nice. It looks good. Fits in hand nice. And I love TWSBI nibs.

Offline Binge

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #995 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 14:37:18 »
Has anyone tried the TWSBI Eco?  It looks like an interesting affordable pen.

It looks like a very basic basic basic but elegant version of their standard piston filler.  I would love to own one, and it's on my list to acquire.
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Offline Larken

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #996 on: Tue, 28 July 2015, 00:33:58 »
I'm a lefty overwriter. How can you write under the line? I know it's more of a thing you get used to but right now I can see my hand cramping up writing under the line  :confused:
I would like to try the Edelstein or Diamine ink first as it's more affordable for me to buy than the other inks. I noted yours inks in my notepad ;-) Still I hope it's more an ink problem than too tight tines. I'm just nervous working on them and probably breaking them  :-[


I was originally an overwriter (for more than 2 decades in fact). When I first started using fountain pens I was still writing over the line, but adapted to a underwriting style after I starting playing around with flex, and eventually switched fully. Makes pen smoothing a lot less complicated (for lefty overwriters, you have to adjust for high angles and push strokes in addition to the usual smoothing most pens get), and since smudging is no longer an issue, the range of inks I could use expanded, which was great. Plus I found that it actually made my handwriting a lot neater and more consistent without losing any speed.

With regards to cramping, it might be a little related to the balance and ergonomics of the pen. I can write for hours with some of my pens (ie. my Pilot Customs series with soft nibs; and find the 912's weight and slightly wider girth to be better than the custom 74), and feel uncomfortable with others after about thirty minutes (Lamy Safari, Metro). The TWSBI lies somewhere in between - I can write for extended periods without issue, but it doesn't quite feel as nice as my pens with soft nibs, which I prefer when I'm writing on my own paper.
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Offline genkidama

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #997 on: Thu, 30 July 2015, 02:58:25 »
With regards to cramping, it might be a little related to the balance and ergonomics of the pen. I can write for hours with some of my pens (ie. my Pilot Customs series with soft nibs; and find the 912's weight and slightly wider girth to be better than the custom 74), and feel uncomfortable with others after about thirty minutes (Lamy Safari, Metro).
Soft nibs are very pressure sensitive, aren't they? Never tried or have seen a soft nib. Future purchase confirmed ^^

I have tried another ink and my Pilot writes very good, not ink flow problems whatsoever. I think it really was just the ink I had in there (Pelikan 4001). I wrote for about 3-4 mins. So I need to look into different inks that resembles the Pilot ink in their cartridges or just good ink.

I also think that the Pilot Metropolitan is somewhat difficult to write for me. Maybe a softer handle/grip on the pen itself could do the trick? When I work out my hands cramp up but not due to the weight, so I got some "gym pads (soft)" to make the handle more "even" for me. Not sure if you could adapt this onto pens. Just an idea.

What you guys think about Waterman Mysterious Blue (Bleu Mystère)?

The TWSBI lies somewhere in between - I can write for extended periods without issue, but it doesn't quite feel as nice as my pens with soft nibs, which I prefer when I'm writing on my own paper.
Actually I thought about getting a TWSBI pen as they seem very durable/good in quality and have an affordable pricetag. AND there are some with a piston filler system which I have seen in a lot of YT videos.

@Larken When you write under the line, do you tilt your paper slightly to the right? When I try I automatically tilt it a bit to the right.
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Offline Larken

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #998 on: Thu, 30 July 2015, 05:57:17 »
Pilot soft nibs are slightly sensitive, but unless you're really heavy handed, the tines usually won't spread unless you intentionally press down hard. The FA nib I have does require some conscious effort to use it as a daily writer, while the soft fine doesn't. If I have to choose between a stiff and a soft nib, all things remaining equal, I'd always pick the soft nib. Much more enjoyable writing experience.

For the Pilot Metro, its not so much the weight of the pen, but rather, the rather sharp step up between the barrel and the nib unit; rather uncomfortable for the way I hold my pens. The balance of the pen is actually pretty good. Other than that step-up, I can't find much to complain about the Metro given the price.

Waterman inks are generally regarded as one of the best behaving inks in terms of flow, low maintenance, and performance. The only drawback is that they're not water resistant; a quick spritz of water will ruin the page and you can pretty much wash out the page with enough water. Not a problem if you don't get your paper wet.

I don't tilt my paper. There's no standard way; it's more of a personal preference thing. Do whatever feels natural.
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Offline genkidama

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Re: Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread
« Reply #999 on: Thu, 30 July 2015, 09:14:10 »
I think I need to read more about the soft nibs and thanks for your opinion on Waterman inks! :) It's very "cheap", I can buy one 50ml bottle for around 6€. I think this would be around 7$ with current exchange rates.  :thumb:

I'm watching some videos and reading some articles regarding underhand writing. I wanna give it another try. Although my writing is much more pleasent with a fountain pen it still hurts and my hands cramp up. Hopefully this'll help or gives me some insight to make my own adjustments.

I would like to get back to you for underhand writing if necessary, thanks again.
« Last Edit: Thu, 30 July 2015, 09:16:31 by genkidama »
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