Small keyboard with "feel".

[vils]

I'm making a computer out of an old electric typewriter (a Facit with cast aluminium shell). So, I'm searching for a keyboard to fit into this. The HHKB 2 pro is perfect in size but is it "clicky" enough? This http://www.ergocanada.com/products/keyboards/dsi_smk85_compact.html DSI board could work but is a bit too big and the HHKB seems more typewriteish.
Any suggestions?

First poster
/Vils

[iMav]

First off, welcome to geekhack!!  

If you are looking for the keyboard to give you an authentic typewriter clicky noise...then the HHKB Pro is not a good choice.  It isn't "clicky" at all.  

Your best bet would be to wait for Unicomp to release their "Mighty Mouse" replacement.  It will have a small footprint and buckling springs (which will give you exactly what you are after, I suspect).

[rnak92a]

iMav,

Might not an 84 key space saver fit his needs, too?  I've no idea how big Unicomp's mighty mouse replacement will be, but I'd suspect it'll be close to the 84 key space saver.  Just a guess...

Regards,
~rn

[iMav]

Might not an 84 key space saver fit his needs, too?  I've no idea how big Unicomp's mighty mouse replacement will be, but I'd suspect it'll be close to the 84 key space saver.  Just a guess...

The Mighty Mouse's footprint is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than that of the 84-key spacesaver.

(Check out the pics at PCKeyboard.)

[rnak92a]

Sure is.  Mea culpa.

Did Jim Owens give any hint about the release date of the new mighty mouse?  Earlier posts suggest Q2.

Cheers,
~rn.

[xsphat]

Buy an HHKB for the chip and make the 'board with whatever clicky switches you like - Alps whites is what I'd use. I like them better than the blacks.

And BTW, I use my HHKB Pro 2 in the library at school. Clicky it is not.

[vils]

Thanks for all ideas.
The biggest possible size for the keyboard (i.e. the keys) is 13.2x4.7", but rather 11.5x4.65".
I might sacriface the clicks for the perfect size of the HHKB wich in all other respects seems to be an excellent keyboard.
Has anyone expirience of the DSI board?

/Vils

[vils]

Thanks for all ideas.
The biggest possible size for the keyboard (i.e. the keys) is 13.2x4.7", but rather 11.5x4.65".
I might sacriface the clicks for the perfect size of the HHKB wich in all other respects seems to be an excellent keyboard.
Has anyone expirience of the DSI board?

/Vils

The DSI board seem identical to the SMK-85.
Where can it be bought?

/Vils

[iMav]

Has anyone expirience of the DSI board?

Which DSI 'board are you referring to?

[vils]

Follow the link in my first post.
SMK85U-SIL-SM

/Vils

[vils]

Ok, I seems to have three choices:
SMK85 (Available in april?)
Mighty Mouse (Available before summer?)
HHKB2 Pro

I use a swedish KB layout so some sort of "tweaking" will have to take place. The blank HHKB gives me the option of printing my own letters, but how?
Have I missed som good compact keyboard out there?
Happy for input.

/Vils

[alpslover]

i once won an ebay auction and the seller sent me the wrong keyboard by mistake.  it was a qtronix scorpius kt-305 with blue cherry switches.  i liked the feel, but disliked the castrated layout.

there's another one on ebay now.  i'd ask the seller to verify the switch type before bidding, though.

[IBI]

What about the Cherry G84-4100?

[vils]

What about the Cherry G84-4100?

Right in size, but ML-switches? Is it available in black?
Thanks for the tip.

/Vils

[xsphat]

The ML is a nice switch. It has a real nice clean feeling to it. It's a true linear switch, meaning the force required is equal throughout. The MX black switch isn't really linear at all. As I think Karlito pointed out, it's more like a quadrilateral switch, which sucks. And the G84-4100 comes in black.

One problem for you though: The key caps aren't full sized - they're 3/4. Something to consider. I had one of those keyboards and really liked it.

[IBI]

It's certainly availible in black here in the UK.

[vils]

After speaking to the nice people at Unicomp I'm quite sure that my choice will be The MightyMouse.
Does anyone have the exact dimensions of this board, both footprint and the "keys part" (i. e. the opening in the plastic for the keys).

/Vils

[vils]

Just ordered the HHKB pro 2, will fit perfectly in my rig. I will however also buy the mighty mouse ,for my other computer, when it's available.

/Vils

[Bluemercury]

I'm making a computer out of an old electric typewriter (a Facit with cast aluminium shell). So, I'm searching for a keyboard to fit into this. The HHKB 2 pro is perfect in size but is it "clicky" enough? This http://www.ergocanada.com/products/keyboards/dsi_smk85_compact.html DSI board could work but is a bit too big and the HHKB seems more typewriteish.
Any suggestions?

First poster
/Vils

It says there that the smk85 has strongman switches which according to fellow geek hackers are worse than the true alps ones. Also says that the ps/2 has alps linear switches???which color are these?

[xsphat]

Actually, my SMK85 had black Alps tactile non-clicky switches.

[Bluemercury]

Actually, my SMK85 had black Alps tactile non-clicky switches.

It seems they stopped using those for some time.

[vils]

This project is moving forward slowly, but I thought that I should share some pics of the installed keyboard.

[vils]

I won't be able to keep the raw aluminium finish there are too many epoxy repairs that needs to be covered. I'm trying to find a paint that resembles that greenish metallic apparatus paint used in the 50's and 60's, but I'm still searching...
My comp is always placed in the kitchen, thats where I resides
This comp is prepared for a standard PSU, micro-atx mobo, slim-line slot in dvd and two hdd.
For the moment I'll just do things that don't require any cash... hope I can buy some stuff later on.
A very brief project description can be found herehttp://mashie.org/forums/showthread.php?t=357

And my last completed here:http://mashie.org/forums/showthread.php?t=93

[chimera15]

So did you end up using an smk85? What is that?  Is the mighty mouse clicky?

[Rajagra]

I'm trying to find a paint that resembles that greenish metallic apparatus paint used in the 50's and 60's, but I'm still searching...

Hammerite, maybe?

[wheel83]

i am currently perfecting the art of installing glass typewriter keys onto model m's.  pics will come in a few weeks.

[vils]

Hammerite is not what I'm looking for. To much "paint-feeling".
Does anyone remember that pale, metallic, slightly transparent green laquer found on old dia-projectors, electric radiators, calculating machines and stuff like it? It had a hammered look... is anyone getting wich finish I'm looking for?
I'm propably posing this question to forum members that, like me, was amazed by the first video (top-loaded) and followed the betamax vs. VHS struggle.

[vils]

That music-thing box has the finish close to what I'm trying to accomplish. I'll trawl hammerite  sites for something like it. Here, Sweden, the hammerite collection is quite thin.
Thanks for the pics.

[vils]

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=29

Bookmarked, searching for retailer...

[vils]

I should have posted this in the mod thread, but let's continue here.
Right to the keyboard you can see a rectangular hole, I intend to have an indicator display there, num lock, caps lock, scroll lock, DVD, HDD and power on.
I'll make a construction with a "template" where the text is etched through a coat of black paint and amber leds underneath. When the led is lighted the text will glow.
Inspiration comes from old stereos.
I suppose flat leds will work best but the only good amber versions I've found are surface mounted... how hard are they to solder?

[watduzhkstand4]

HHKB pro 2 imo is great. I've typed on it before and loved it comparing it to my Lite 2

[vils]

Right to the keyboard you can see a rectangular hole, I intend to have an indicator display there, num lock, caps lock, scroll lock, DVD, HDD and power on.

I think I've figured out a good way to make the "text indicator window", more on this in the Mod section later on.
Now to aesthetics.
Wich font do you recommend for a 60's industrial look?

The text row will look like this:
Power
HDD
DVD
CapsL
NumL
ScrL

And another thing should all leds be amber or some in different colours?
"Power" green for ex., CapsL in super bright red maybe? I'm open for suggestions.
Specs for case leds are also welcome.

[vils]

Show Image

 

Ripster this might intrest you.

[vils]

Best font I've found so far is "Alte DIN 1451 Mittelschrift gepraegt"

[vils]

This slideshow about the demise of the Facit company is quite intresting.
Slide number 76 depicts "my" typewriter.
I still have that little Facit aluminium badge, and will replace it as soon the casing is painted (or propably powder coated).

Both the corona and ibm logos are nice.

[vils]

Pretty sharp points - depends how modern you want.

Well, the display will be fairly small so the backlit legends have to be quite clean to be readable. And the have to be possible to engrave.
That narrows down the selection to something not to narrow, not to bold and propably sans-serif.

BTW the proposed font is originating from 1906.

[vils]

[vils]

Alas I don't have any pics of the typewriter from before the project started so I'm on my way to buy another one:


With hood!
Shipping charges could kill the deal, but I'm hopeful.

Apart from that I'm still want more input on led-colours and font choice.

[vils]

Some major steps have been taken the last days. I have almost completed the case. The open hole into the typewriter you can see below now have a sturdy roof.


I'll try to take some new pics soon.
Construction and design of this part have been a major headache but now it's solved (aluminium plates, epoxy and hard work).

The activity display is still a mess, but it will be sorted out.

BTW, does anyone kows a good source for small and good looking push buttons? I need one for the dvd-eject and maybe some more for on/off and restart. A turbo button pherhaps? Nahh so 80's

[huha]

As far as LEDs are concerned: There's only one colour to use: Amber.

-huha

[vils]

As far as LEDs are concerned: There's only one colour to use: Amber.

-huha

I'm pretty sure I will.

When I looked at the specs for blue cherrys it seemed as they could be used as dvd-eject button. A nice metal key-cap and some glueing.. must find a supplier..

[vils]

[Rajagra]

It's looking good. Any plans to put anything inside? You could build a PC inside. Or just use it to store CDs or something. :-)

You could complete the effect by building a TFT into an old microfiche reader maybe.

[rdjack21]

I have to agree looking good. You could turn it into a web surfer by putting one of those little atom boards in it.

[vils]

It have place for a mATX board, regular PSU and everything else for a fully functioning computer and will be my main rig. Propably equipped with 3gHz intel dual core.
A modded TFT could be a nice addition but I'll stick with the standard stuff.

[vils]

Interior:

[lowpoly]

pics

Wow.

Those flexible LCD screens could simulate the paper:

[rdjack21]

Interior:

Show Image

Really nice. The more I see the more impressed I am by this. Nice work.

[vils]

Vils, Very Nice!  The inside was a complete surprise.

Thanks, I'm glad you're suprised... I'm working on it not to ressemble a PC.

I like these case switches a lot.  Feel super high quality like Elevator buttons.  Lots of more retro colors.

Those are nice, but Ireally want something small and discreet.

Here are the old keycaps:


I really want to use them, but I thing I'll pass. The lettering is nice, but nothing matches the modern layout. It would be like using a blank KB but harder....

New and old caps compared:



Some quality differance.

Looks intresting..


Edible?


I took the red one and it tastes good.



On subject again, maybe use the red "erase" button as dvd eject?

[rdjack21]

I hate to mention this but if you decide you don't want those keys I would love to have them. But I can understand if you want to keep them.

[vils]

I hate to mention this but if you decide you don't want those keys I would love to have them. But I can understand if you want to keep them.

Glad you understand, nicest keycaps I've come across. Dark brown, double injected and a wonderful curvature.... what are I describing... OT OT won't corrupt this thread.

[lowpoly]

Those old keycaps are beautiful. Using them would raise a lot of problems though.

[rdjack21]

Those old keycaps are beautiful. Using them would raise a lot of problems though.

Other than just mounting them what issues do you foresee. I think I may have found a set but I'm not sure I want to pay the $79 that's wanted for them yet. I really want a set of them so I can try to get them to fit on a current board. Yea I know I'm going to have to rebuild the key stem some how but that is the only issue I see.

[vils]

Ok, I have settled with a Colour, a rustoleum 7214830 - Gray.
I think it will finish up the typewriter nicely. Thanks for the tip Ripster.
The powder coating was to risky due to the 220 degree C bakening, I'm not sure all my epoxy work will stand that.
Now my only problem is to find a retailer that will ship to Europe, help with that would be appreciated.

The "display" is almost finished with amber leds.

[rdjack21]

That is going to be hard. Now days most paints are shipped ground in the US. I hate to say it but your best bet is to find a local retailer in Europe.

[vils]

Update

[microsoft windows]

I've also heard that green and yellow ALPS keyswitches are linear. How well do they feel for an entire keyboard?

[vils]

Almost two years since my first post in this thread and on geekhack... time flies.
A breakthrough have been made, this friday I handed over the case to the painter. It will be sandblasted and painted in a very darkgray colour with a sandy texture. Very close to the original finish.
When I've picked up the case later on this week I'll take some pics and share them as soon as possible.

[rdjack21]

Looking good so far. I took a look a few months back at your work log on mashie forums  and noticed that you had made some progress. Where are you going to post the picks when you get it back from the paint job?

[vils]

Looking good so far. I took a look a few months back at your work log on mashie forums  and noticed that you had made some progress. Where are you going to post the picks when you get it back from the paint job?

I'll promise to post them here.
But my main log is over at Bit-Tech. But the Mashie thread will be updated too.

[vils]

Getting the case back from the painter seems to take longer than expected, hopefully during next week...
I have made a temporary backing plate for the KB:


I have four bolts attached to the case and will clamp the KB between the case and the backing plate.
This plate is made of hard board and a girder of aluminium. But I'm working on a plate in aluminium with a thin foam sheet  to protect the PCB.

I read through the whole thread before I wrote this and I'm impressed and humbled by all help you have provided during this project. Thanks so very much, couldn't done it without you.

Edit:
I promise to write a longer and more well organised article in Modifications thread when this project is closer to completion.
It feels a bit ill-placed now, albeit not from the beginning.

[vils]

[itlnstln]

That's beautiful.  I would kill for a keyboard with that color scheme.

[mp29k]

This looks fantastic!  What are you going to use for a monitor?  It might be neat if you used an LCD with the same color scheme, and attached it so it could fold down when not in use.  That is going to be a sweet 'puter you have there.

[vils]

Thanks everyone.
Here's a shot where the colour shows better:


It's spray painted, but it has the grainy texture I wanted.
Powder coating was not an option due to all epoxi that I feared would melt  during baking.
I will get an TFT monitor, but propably make a custom vesa arm attached to the case's roof.
Short reply but my comp is constantly getting blue screens so I have to be brief. As soon as I have written something long the crappy machine crashes...

[Rajagra]

Nice. Has that "just off the production line" look. I bet it even smells new.

[itlnstln]

My consideration says that's an awesome vintage 'board (with a HUGE spacebar).
 
 
My consideration would also like to mention that KBDMania is getting piped slow as Hell to my area of the world.

[itlnstln]

Inspecting this some more, I would say this is almost a perfect layout; better than the HHKB, for sure.  The only problem I see right off the bat is a lack of F11 and F12.  Oh, and a complete lack of connectivity.

[Rajagra]

I consider it far too good to be mass produced. Not quite perfect, but sooo close. Must have been made by an enthusiast.

Edit> I'm talking about the keyboard webwit linked, not the cleavage linked by ripster.
Edit2> But then again...

[itlnstln]

Damn, the mirror was lightning fast. Much better.  Thanks, webwit.

[itlnstln]

Houston, too, nonetheless.  Nice.

[vils]

I have considered to order a complete set of key caps for the "white" smk-85 so I can experiment with colour combinations. The all-black keycap layout looks a bit massive to me.
DSI, however, charges $1 a piece and $85 for a full set seems a bit to much.
Maybe I should just order all the dark grey function keys, still nearly 40 caps...

[Whiskey in the Jar-o]

Looks neat.

[quadibloc]

For your consideration.......

It is nice to see a compact keyboard with ALPS switches - and of a unique older variety, to boot - but given the location of the Backspace key, I'm afraid it isn't going to win the award for Best Keyboard, or even the one for Best Keyboard Without a Numeric Keypad, with the help of my vote.

The envelope please...

[ricercar]

The Arc mouse was the worst blowing-smoke-and-mirrors-up-your-ass mouse ever designed by Microsoft, and I've had em all except the sidewinder, even the Starck petrified walrus penis. They should do better with the Arc keyboard--hell, they can't do worse.

[vils]

Im writing this on my now almost completed typewriter computer. Fast as hell and a bliss to type on. There are some minor issues that have to be fixed, worst of them are a non-working DVD player. I belive my IDE-SATA adapter iis the culprit. Well, what doyou expect from a $5 thing shipped for free?

[kishy]

Im writing this on my now almost completed typewriter computer. Fast as hell and a bliss to type on. There are some minor issues that have to be fixed, worst of them are a non-working DVD player. I belive my IDE-SATA adapter iis the culprit. Well, what doyou expect from a $5 thing shipped for free?

This post perplexes me.

On the one hand, you're describing something interesting.

The other other, it's not relevant (but that doesn't matter since it's Geekhack)...but also on this hand is the fact this thread has been dead for over a month.

Not criticizing, just stating that I find the post very odd lol. Carry on.

[vils]

Im in Madrid right now and showing of my case.
My first impression is that out of the hundreds of participants all (but me) have keyboards that would make you all cry.

[itlnstln]

Pics or it didn't happen.

[vils]

With make you cry I dont mean of joy. Expensive flashing multimedia keyboards with rubber domes.

[itlnstln]

Oh.  OK.  No pics, then.  Thanks.

[AvengeR]

Looks neat.

I'd buy it if it wasn't wireless

[vils]

Just some media coverage:
http://www.bit-tech.net/modding/events/2010/04/28/campus-party-europe-s-best-mods/1
The machine works almost perfectly now, apart from the fact that I can crash my usb to ps2 adaptor with some key combinations. Must buy the cube clickykeyboards sell.

[vils]

I recived a NeXT keyboard from Half-Saint today. I have replaced almost all key caps on the SMK-85 with the doubleshots from NeXT. Fitted perfectly.

[kriminal]

vils you have just inspired me to pick back up my long overdue compaq case mod...

[vils]

Good.

[audioave10]

Congrats on a beautiful job.

[iMav]

Looks neat.

Wow.  Whiskey is alive!  Welcome back . . .

[vils]

Some NeXT keys installed.