Author Topic: Have you preordered a Das Keyboard III? (Read 17668 times)

iMav · « **on:** Wed, 02 July 2008, 10:10:04 »

Just checking to see who all has preordered the Das III.

Bluemercury · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 02 July 2008, 10:35:42 »

I have Das Keyboard II, dont know if its worth it having the previous version.

iMav · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 02 July 2008, 10:40:27 »

Quote from: Bluemercury;6198

I have Das Keyboard II, dont know if its worth it having the previous version.

I guess the only real drivers would be if you wanted the built-in USB hub or wanted printed keys.

I broke down and preordered one. Worst case, I have a source for blue cherry keyswitches if I want them in my pre-ordered Filco spacesaver (which should be equipped with cherry browns).

Waves77 · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 02 July 2008, 13:36:17 »

Same here. I ordered one... I hope it doesn't look too flashy once I get it. I really like the toned down but excellent quality build of the Filco.

003 · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 02 July 2008, 14:22:08 »

I'm wondering, if it does end up being a really nice keyboard, but it is glossy and shiny and gets fingerprints and smudges easily, shouldn't it be fairly easy to take some fine sandpaper (1000-1500 grit), disassemble it, and lightly sand the outer frame to a matte finish?

Ulysses31 · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 02 July 2008, 14:29:33 »

Glossy plastics tend to be softer and scratch more easily than normal ones, so even if you could somehow wear down the surface evenly, it's a finish that might not last. There's that, and the three lights shine through the surface; if you made it matt, they'd just look like three blurred blue lights. I have an Intuos 3 SE with a glossy black finish and I keep it covered up because I REALLY don't want to damage it >_<.

003 · « **Reply #6 on:** Wed, 02 July 2008, 14:46:31 »

Quote from: Ulysses31;6229

Glossy plastics tend to be softer and scratch more easily than normal ones, so even if you could somehow wear down the surface evenly, it's a finish that might not last. There's that, and the three lights shine through the surface; if you made it matt, they'd just look like three blurred blue lights. I have an Intuos 3 SE with a glossy black finish and I keep it covered up because I REALLY don't want to damage it >_<.

Aww man I forgot about that!! Why the @#$% would they make a keyboard that scratches and smudges like an iPod?!

Surely somebody must have realized what a mistake that would be

iMav · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 02 July 2008, 14:52:41 »

Quote from: 003;6231

Aww man I forgot about that!! Why the @#$% would they make a keyboard that scratches and smudges like an iPod?! Surely somebody must have realized what a mistake that would be

Of course, this is all speculation at this point. Let's wait and see how the keyboard actually holds up in the real world before condemning it.

Ulysses31 · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 02 July 2008, 15:09:52 »

I'm speaking from experience of products with these supposedly sophisticated finishes. I'm sure it'll be fine for most people though. As an example, I always have to remember to remove my watch before I do anything with my tablet because without even noticing it, the metal bracelet comes perilously close to the glossy surface as i'm drawing. Maybe i'm just paranoid. If you treat the thing with a bit of respect it'll be OK. What would've been good is if they offered a version with a nice thick piece of glass over the top; scratch resistant and a lot more heft.

003 · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 02 July 2008, 15:27:35 »

Hmmmm.... what about some kind of tough, clear enamel hard coating?

smy · « **Reply #10 on:** Tue, 08 July 2008, 15:56:02 »

My order from getdigital.de just shipped earlier today. Hopefully it'll get delivered by friday so I'll have the weekend to play with them.

Decided to splurge on the Das III cause I go through 3-4 membrane keyboards annually(yes i'm anal about the feel of my keyboards) until I got introduced to the world of mechanical keyboards (cherry black stems)last year.
The black cherry were actually very usable, despite requiring more effort to register a keystroke. Hopefully the blue stems on the Das don't require so much activation force.

Waves77 · « **Reply #11 on:** Tue, 08 July 2008, 16:04:10 »

Quote from: smy;6446

My order from getdigital.de just shipped earlier today. Hopefully it'll get delivered by friday so I'll have the weekend to play with them.

Decided to splurge on the Das III cause I go through 3-4 membrane keyboards annually(yes i'm anal about the feel of my keyboards) until I got introduced to the world of mechanical keyboards (cherry black stems)last year.
The black cherry were actually very usable, despite requiring more effort to register a keystroke. Hopefully the blue stems on the Das don't require so much activation force.

I find the force required to be very similar for the blue and the black ones. The blue ones are way better though, I'm sure you'll like them.

smy · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri, 11 July 2008, 10:45:21 »

Well well, today the delivery truck dropped by and now I have a new keyboard to play with.

First impressions, the force required for keystrokes are significantly lower then the black stems. Its almost as effortless to tap on the keys. The feedback force is very linear from the moment u press it , until all the way down. There is however a subtle click midway, as expected.

Initially I had doubts if the cherry blue stems would work for gaming considering its click tactile nature, a linear action will be more suitable for FPS gaming. Fortunately, it was very usable, thanks to its very light touch.

Short test with the n-key-rollover.It does seem work up to 5 keys simultaneously. Above 5 keys, the keystrokes will still register but at a much faster rate than normal. For instance, if you tapped alphabet "A" as the 6th keystroke, it would fill up your whole screen within moments.

My only quirk so far is the noise it produces, it does click clack quite loudly but hopefully that will die down as I use it more. Judging from the force graphs from cherry, I would consider brown stems more usable than the blues.

Waves77 · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 11 July 2008, 11:55:46 »

I just got my tracking number, my Das III Pro is arriving on monday!

Anybody else already have had it shipped? They're located in TX and I'm in NM, so I'm lucky with the shipping speed

zerogravitas · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 11 July 2008, 11:58:25 »

Quote from: Waves77;6502

I just got my tracking number, my Das III Pro is arriving on monday!

Anybody else already have had it shipped? They're located in TX and I'm in NM, so I'm lucky with the shipping speed

I just got the same message.

bigpook · « **Reply #15 on:** Sat, 12 July 2008, 13:36:31 »

I voted as waiting on real-world feedback, but ordered it anyway. Don't have a tracking number yet. Hopefully Monday I will have one. As far as I can tell this is my best shot at a keyboard with cherry blue switches that is available locally. I look forward to receiving it.

Waves77 · « **Reply #16 on:** Sat, 12 July 2008, 13:57:45 »

Quote from: bigpook;6516

I voted as waiting on real-world feedback, but ordered it anyway. Don't have a tracking number yet. Hopefully Monday I will have one. As far as I can tell this is my best shot at a keyboard with cherry blue switches that is available locally. I look forward to receiving it.

Seeing your love for model M's I think you will really really like the blue cherries!

Makes monday less of a crappy day doesn't it?

Korbin · « **Reply #17 on:** Sat, 12 July 2008, 20:34:19 »

I just got mine yesterday. It sounds a little different (quieter actually) than the das II to me (even though it has the same switches). I think it is because the casing for the board isn't as "hollow" as the das II.

Anyone else that has the Das II notice the same thing?

It also says that the switches are rated in the 20 million range. I thought the cherry switches were rated in the 50 million range (or is that only certain switches)?

bigpook · « **Reply #18 on:** Sat, 12 July 2008, 22:07:40 »

Quote from: Waves77;6517

Seeing your love for model M's I think you will really really like the blue cherries!

Makes monday less of a crappy day doesn't it?

I am certainly looking forward to it. As much as I love my model m's and unicomp keyboards I want to try something different. The blue cherry's seem to be the next step.
Somewhere on the horizon there is a HHKB Pro 2, but right now that is a ways away.
Mondays still bite though : )

iMav · « **Reply #19 on:** Sun, 13 July 2008, 11:31:52 »

Quote from: Korbin;6522

I just got mine yesterday.

Pics???

Waves77 · « **Reply #20 on:** Sun, 13 July 2008, 12:03:13 »

Quote from: bigpook;6524

Somewhere on the horizon there is a HHKB Pro 2, but right now that is a ways away.
Mondays still bite though : )

Same here. I'd definitely would love to try a hhkb pro 2. I've promised myself that when I finish this large ecommerce project I'm working on I'd get it for myself

Korbin · « **Reply #21 on:** Sun, 13 July 2008, 12:07:34 »

Errrr..... Unfortunately I don't have a digital camera.

xyzzy · « **Reply #22 on:** Sun, 13 July 2008, 14:57:54 »

Quote from: Korbin;6522

It also says that the switches are rated in the 20 million range. I thought the cherry switches were rated in the 50 million range (or is that only certain switches)?

The linear Cherry keyswitches are rated 50 million operations, the tactile "only" 20 million.

More info here: http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm

Ulysses31 · « **Reply #23 on:** Sun, 13 July 2008, 15:29:22 »

There's probably less wear involved in a linear action, which may explain that difference. No components grinding against each other to make a click, perhaps?

Korbin · « **Reply #24 on:** Sun, 13 July 2008, 17:16:16 »

Quote from: xyzzy;6529

The linear Cherry keyswitches are rated 50 million operations, the tactile "only" 20 million.

More info here: http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm

Ah, that's right.

xsphat · « **Reply #25 on:** Sun, 13 July 2008, 17:50:18 »

I would guess that after 20 million clicks the click part is clacked, but if you look at the design of the Cherry switch, it should still function without that part of the stem that causes the sound. Another thing to consider is the springs are all different, so that may be the culprit as well.

I often worry about wearing out the left apple key because I use it so much in so many applications.

Korbin · « **Reply #26 on:** Sun, 13 July 2008, 18:04:23 »

Quote from: xsphat;6534

I would guess that after 20 million clicks the click part is clacked, but if you look at the design of the Cherry switch, it should still function without that part of the stem that causes the sound. Another thing to consider is the springs are all different, so that may be the culprit as well.

I often worry about wearing out the left apple key because I use it so much in so many applications.

That makes sense since the key activation is a separate mechanism from the click. But I would imagine the board would horrible typing with one of key clicks out.

xsphat · « **Reply #27 on:** Sun, 13 July 2008, 18:08:15 »

Quote from: Korbin;6537

But I would imagine the board would horrible typing with one of key clicks out.

I agree. It might be able to total the switch too, depending on what part of it broke.

zerogravitas · « **Reply #28 on:** Mon, 14 July 2008, 17:59:40 »

Mine came today. I've only had it unboxed for about 10 minutes, but my initial impressions are quite positive. I really like the blues so far.

Waves77 · « **Reply #29 on:** Mon, 14 July 2008, 19:56:25 »

Mine is here too

Nice to have blues again.

Initial reaction are mostly *****ing/nitpicking:
- Odd, but for some reason the keys "sit" differently in this board than for example in the Scorpius. For now I preferred the feel of the Scorpius to this one, even though it's exactly the same keyswitches..
- Shiny. It smudges yes... it comes with a very cheapy little cleaning cloth.
- The plastic casing could be better. Definitely below a Filco or a model M, etc.

I haven't tried the usb hub yet, although it's not something I really have a need for. Altogether I'm sure I'll really get into this one after a few days (I've also been on the brown cherries for a while now). I think for the price and taking into consideration it's available in the US it's a pretty decent keyboard.

zvz · « **Reply #30 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 03:31:02 »

They need a model w/o the windows keys. =(

xsphat · « **Reply #31 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 03:51:10 »

Quote from: zvz;6567

They need a model w/o the windows keys. =(

I'm with you buddy. Thanks why my keyboard and wife are close to the same age.

iMav · « **Reply #32 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 07:33:35 »

Quote from: zvz;6567

They need a model w/o the windows keys. =(

I don't get the hate for the "windows key" (especially on a board where it is blank). I happily use it as an extra meta/modifier key when it is available. (perhaps I'm simply still used to the meta key on my old Sun workstations)

That being said, I can easily get by without it...I just don't have the severe hate for it that others do.

Ulysses31 · « **Reply #33 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 07:46:27 »

I agree with iMav. It's just a key. Since I use Windows (sorry, but needs must as the Devil drives) I use that key for a couple of things like showing or hiding the desktop and occasionally activating the Start menu. There are plenty of keys I almost never use like Caps Lock, Scroll Lock and Pause. The Pause button is only useful for halting the boot-up sequence which isn't something I have to do unless i'm curious about something. These extra keys don't bother me though.

xsphat · « **Reply #34 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 10:11:02 »

Quote from: iMav;6569

I don't get the hate for the "windows key"

but if the enter key is in any way different than an a Model M, you won't even try the keyboard ...

bhtooefr · « **Reply #35 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 10:18:50 »

That's because the L-shaped enter is the spawn of the devil.

Anyway, I think most of the intense hate for the Windows key might come from gamers on Windows - hit the Win key, and you lose, because the game loses focus as the start menu pops up. It was more of a problem back in the days of older games that used full keyboard schemes involving Ctrl and Alt, rather than keyboard+mouse schemes, but...

itlnstln · « **Reply #36 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 10:41:48 »

Quote from: bhtooefr;6573

That's because the L-shaped enter is the spawn of the devil.

You know, I used to think the same thing, but when I started using my Evolution (coming from a Model M myself), I hardly even notice it. What I notice more, but becoming acustom to, is the odd placement of the arrow keys and the navigation cluster (see avatar pic). I could care less if I have Windows keys or not. I don't hate them, but I do not use them, either.

xsphat · « **Reply #37 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 11:30:19 »

I really have nothing against wacky shaped enter keys. I'm not a coder, wouldn't know where to start, so I have never used the pipe key in my life on any keyboard, so I guess that could be why I don't mind the key being shaped differently. My favorite layout is the IBM 101, like my Northgate and Model M, but if I use a keyboard with the reverse L enter key I really don't notice it.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #38 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 14:16:54 »

First off, I usually use the pipe more in the command line than I do while slinging code...

Second, the pipe's the secondary character on that key, the backslash is the primary key, and on a Windows machine, the backslash is important when typing pathnames. I use it quite a lot.

Finally, there's another problem with many keyboards with L-shaped enters... backspace is shortened to make room for the backslash/pipe key. That's the true annoying thing about it. I see that Northgate at least stuck it down on the right side of right Shift, a key that's rarely used (good,) and didn't affect backspace at all.

xsphat · « **Reply #39 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 15:42:18 »

Quote from: bhtooefr;6577

I see that Northgate at least stuck it down on the right side of right Shift, a key that's rarely used (good,) and didn't affect backspace at all.

Yeah, they have a pretty good layout even with that enter key, but I'll take the layout on my Northgate anyday:

bhtooefr · « **Reply #40 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 15:53:22 »

Well, yeah, that layout is optimal.

(Or at least that layout with a Windows key or two.)

xsphat · « **Reply #41 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 16:30:56 »

Quote from: bhtooefr;6582

(Or at least that layout with a Windows key or two.)

We take that sort of talk as fightin' words 'round here!

bigpook · « **Reply #42 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 16:41:56 »

Get the shotgun Ma! Theres varmints at the door!

No windows keys for me please : )

bhtooefr · « **Reply #43 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 16:54:14 »

My Windows keys are remapped to function as Option keys, thank you very much.

bigpook · « **Reply #44 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 17:57:53 »

In linux they act as meta keys and actually can be useful. Its the logo thats on the key that is so wrong for me. Imav doesn't understand the dislike. To be fair my dislike for the windows key is entirely irrational. I know this : ) But its usually nothing that a Sharpie can't fix....But I do prefer keyboards without that particular key.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #45 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 21:06:08 »

Also, Unicomp will gladly charge you for blank Windows key keycaps, or ones with Command printed on them. (You still have to remap, and switch Alt and the new Command around, but...)

xsphat · « **Reply #46 on:** Tue, 15 July 2008, 21:54:08 »

Are you ure they have Command keys? I asked about them a while ago and they said they would include a few blanks to take the place of them.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #47 on:** Wed, 16 July 2008, 08:59:14 »

I'm not certain of it, but I have heard it in a couple places...

If nothing else, though, blanks are better than Windows keys if it's the principle of the thing.

(And, I believe they'll sell you a board with black keys and no printing at all for $10 more.)

bigpook · « **Reply #48 on:** Wed, 16 July 2008, 10:21:46 »

I bought a spacesaver recently from Unicomp with blank keys, I think it was an extra 10 dollars.

003 · « **Reply #49 on:** Wed, 16 July 2008, 22:24:57 »

I just got a shipping notice for my DK Pro!

bigpook · « **Reply #50 on:** Thu, 17 July 2008, 04:38:52 »

I am still waiting for my shipping notice. They emailed me and said that the pre-orders where higher than expected. Hopefully, it will ship this Friday.

iMav · « **Reply #51 on:** Thu, 17 July 2008, 07:23:31 »

Quote from: xsphat;6594

Are you ure they have Command keys? I asked about them a while ago and they said they would include a few blanks to take the place of them.

I bet that Hooleon Keyboards can provide custom keycaps for the Model M's.

alpslover · « **Reply #52 on:** Thu, 17 July 2008, 16:51:11 »

there's something odd about blue cherries that i'm not too keen on, but i can't quite place it. maybe it'll just take some getting used to. and the legs could be higher.

also, odd results in the rollover test (see rollover thread).

Waves77 · « **Reply #53 on:** Thu, 17 July 2008, 17:36:57 »

Quote from: iMav;6636

I bet that Hooleon Keyboards can provide custom keycaps for the Model M's.

I contacted the guy from clickykeyboards once, and according to them nobody makes keycaps for model m's the main problem being the larger keys (shift, enter, etc.).

iMav · « **Reply #54 on:** Thu, 17 July 2008, 18:06:00 »

Quote from: Waves77;6644

I contacted the guy from clickykeyboards once, and according to them nobody makes keycaps for model m's the main problem being the larger keys (shift, enter, etc.).

One need only look to Unicomp to see that statement is false.

Waves77 · « **Reply #55 on:** Thu, 17 July 2008, 18:38:07 »

Quote from: iMav;6646

One need only look to Unicomp to see that statement is false.

I'm talking removable keycaps. As far as I know Unicomp's are all one piece keyswitches right? (i.e. the keycaps is directly attached the the buckling spring mechanism).

bigpook · « **Reply #56 on:** Thu, 17 July 2008, 18:42:39 »

Thats not true. I have a Unicomp keyboard with the 2 piece keys.

I have another Unicomp keyboard with all black keys, they are one piece.

Waves77 · « **Reply #57 on:** Thu, 17 July 2008, 18:54:23 »

Quote from: bigpook;6648

Thats not true. I have a Unicomp keyboard with the 2 piece keys.

I have another Unicomp keyboard with all black keys, they are one piece.

Really? Which one of them is the 2 piece one?

iMav · « **Reply #58 on:** Thu, 17 July 2008, 19:01:53 »

The Unicomp 84-key spacesaver I bought new from them last fall also has the two-piece keys.

bigpook · « **Reply #59 on:** Thu, 17 July 2008, 20:52:36 »

I have a Customizer with the linux layout, black case with grey keys. This is the keyboard with 2 piece keys.

I have a Unicomp spacesaver, black case, with black keys, no letters. This keyboard has 1 piece keys.

xsphat · « **Reply #60 on:** Thu, 17 July 2008, 22:00:18 »

Hey, since there are like 50 people here that bought a Das III, why don't one of you post a picture?

003 · « **Reply #61 on:** Thu, 17 July 2008, 23:54:01 »

Most people don't have it yet.

sugar · « **Reply #62 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 00:13:55 »

Here are some pictures, just got it this afternoon... sorry for the pic quality, warm lighting and no tripod... hope someone can post better pics.

sugar · « **Reply #63 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 00:14:57 »

continuing with 3 more pics...

I didn't get any bottom shots. It's made in Taiwan. It has two commonly seen flipping raisers and a soft anti-slipping foam sticker at each corners.

xsphat · « **Reply #64 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 01:00:49 »

Very nice looking keyobard. Does the glossy finish smudge easy? If so, does it clean up easy?

Ulysses31 · « **Reply #65 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 08:05:13 »

The keycaps look really shiny, or is that just because of the camera flash? In general it looks better than in the promotional pictures i've seen.

Bluemercury · « **Reply #66 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 08:36:07 »

How does this compare with DASII???i have the DASII, i wonder if i should get this, it does look a lot smaller....

sugar · « **Reply #67 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 08:46:56 »

Quote from: Ulysses31;6661

The keycaps look really shiny, or is that just because of the camera flash? In general it looks better than in the promotional pictures i've seen.

I think those are the tiny grains on the plastic key surface reflecting light. You can't see them with bare eyes or feel them. The key surface doesn't seem to have any visible/obvious shinny or glossy coating and it feels smoother than my other crappy keyboards

(the grains on DK3 *look* smaller).

Quote from: xsphat;6658

Very nice looking keyobard. Does the glossy finish smudge easy? If so, does it clean up easy?

The glossy plastic cover doesn't seem very "sensitive" but it probably will get scratched by sharper objects than fingernails. :lol:
I have been typing for the whole night and a tiny bit this morning and it doesn't seem to have any smudges on the finish, yet. Too soon to tell I guess.
--------------------
(Pro version only) I don't know how the letters are "printed" but the surface of the ENTER key feels a lot smoother than the other longer lettering keys. Don't know if that's good or bad

smy · « **Reply #68 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 08:56:16 »

the keyboard is a dust magnet. Mine requires wiping almost everyday to keep the dust off. And yes, fingernails will scratch the shiny plastic.

Other than that, the only problem i have with the Das keyboard is that I don't have one of those in my office

lowpoly · « **Reply #69 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 09:05:27 »

I brush the dust off my black HHKB daily. This is common with black keyboards.

itlnstln · « **Reply #70 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 09:50:04 »

Quote from: sofa king;6665

I brush the dust off my black HHKB daily. This is common with black keyboards.

I keep a feather duster at my desk for just this purpose. We use Dell computers here, so everything we have is black. Well, except for my keyboard

Korbin · « **Reply #71 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 10:08:30 »

Quote from: Bluemercury;6662

How does this compare with DASII???i have the DASII, i wonder if i should get this, it does look a lot smaller....

It does take up less space an your desk than the II. To me it sounds quieter than the II. All you hear is the true snap of the key. Not the resonating "hollow click" sound that will remind you of a lot of model m's like the Das II.

The board is also heavier than the Das II. My Das II has a tendency to slide around a little too much an my desk the III is definitely heavier (that's something I love about the a 7G and Filco boards).

Other than that, the boards are the same other than the added features (N-Key Rollover and USB ports).

bhtooefr · « **Reply #72 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 10:14:06 »

Most of the keys on my EnduraPro 104 (UB40PGA, black, grey keys) are one-piece, but both Ctrl keys, Tab, and backslash are all two-piece.

alpslover · « **Reply #73 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 11:14:33 »

Quote from: xsphat;6658

Very nice looking keyobard. Does the glossy finish smudge easy? If so, does it clean up easy?

yes and yes.

out of all the mechanical keyboards i've used, the das 3 has the most solid, satisfying, authentic old school manual typewriter 'clack' when its keys are bottomed.

but there is just something i find a little off about the feel of the switches on the way down....almost like they don't always feel consistent from keystroke to keystroke so i find it difficult to get a good typing rhythm going. perhaps this is due to the unnecessarily complicated two-piece slider design.

Bluemercury · « **Reply #74 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 11:17:31 »

Quote from: Korbin;6667

It does take up less space an your desk than the II. To me it sounds quieter than the II. All you hear is the true snap of the key. Not the resonating "hollow click" sound that will remind you of a lot of model m's like the Das II.

The board is also heavier than the Das II. My Das II has a tendency to slide around a little too much an my desk the III is definitely heavier (that's something I love about the a 7G and Filco boards).

Other than that, the boards are the same other than the added features (N-Key Rollover and USB ports).

Sounds better then. I might try to sell my DASII first, but i have soo many keyboards to acquire.....i already payed the first half for a HHKP2, and i might get the mackally for the alps switches, i still have to get a cherry browns too, and now this looks great.....:S

I might try to sell or "change" my MODEL M5-1......

Bluemercury · « **Reply #75 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 11:18:43 »

Quote from: alpslover;6673

yes and yes.

out of all the mechanical keyboards i've used, the das 3 has the most solid, satisfying, authentic old school manual typewriter 'clack' when its keys are bottomed.

but there is just something i find a little off about the feel of the switches on the way down....almost like they don't always feel consistent from keystroke to keystroke so i find it difficult to get a good typing rhythm going. perhaps this is due to the unnecessarily complicated two-piece slider design.

Damn now you're making it sound even worse......i might have to buy this.....:S

Korbin · « **Reply #76 on:** Fri, 18 July 2008, 13:24:39 »

Quote from: Bluemercury;6675

Damn now you're making it sound even worse......i might have to buy this.....:S

I couldn't tell a difference in the key action myself. Ultimately your buying decision will be down to whether the new look, added weight and USB ports are worth the 130 bucks.

Bluemercury · « **Reply #77 on:** Sat, 19 July 2008, 13:35:27 »

Quote from: Korbin;6676

I couldn't tell a difference in the key action myself. Ultimately your buying decision will be down to whether the new look, added weight and USB ports are worth the 130 bucks.

So you have the two keyboards?do they feel exactly the same?

Korbin · « **Reply #78 on:** Sun, 20 July 2008, 16:46:53 »

Quote from: Bluemercury;6704

So you have the two keyboards?do they feel exactly the same?

Yup. I have both of them and they feel exactly the same. The only difference other than the obvious features (like the USB slots) is the new one is heavier and sounds a little quieter.

bigpook · « **Reply #79 on:** Tue, 22 July 2008, 16:49:04 »

I just got my das III.
Woohoo : ) I need to use it for awhile to get used to it but first impressions are that the blue cherrys are not as loud as the buckling springs. But they do have a click to them which is good.
They all seem to take less pressure to actuate too. Time will tell if I end up liking it.

The top plate is all shiny, will be curious to see how it holds up and if it will smudge.

The fonts are really cool on the keys. and the non-symmetrical shape is not as bad as it looked in the pictures.

It also seems that it will not work on my KVM switch, which really bites.

003 · « **Reply #80 on:** Wed, 23 July 2008, 16:26:03 »

I just received the DK Pro today, it's no model M as far as typing goes, but it works well and feels/sounds good.

bigpook · « **Reply #81 on:** Wed, 23 July 2008, 18:12:51 »

I am in agreement with 003. Its day 2 for me and I think I need to give it a week or so but so far I am kind of disappointed. The action is too light but the click is ok. It almost feels dainty when I type. I think I will stop now. I feel a rant coming on. : (

iMav · « **Reply #82 on:** Wed, 23 July 2008, 20:09:07 »

Quote from: bigpook;6849

I am in agreement with 003. Its day 2 for me and I think I need to give it a week or so but so far I am kind of disappointed. The action is too light but the click is ok. It almost feels dainty when I type. I think I will stop now. I feel a rant coming on. : (

Actually, that is one thing that I like about the blues. You can just "flick" your fingers at the keys. I find that, once adjusted, I can type incredibly fast and accurate on them.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #83 on:** Wed, 23 July 2008, 20:19:27 »

Hmm. Light actuation.

Crap, I really need to get a keyboard with blues. Sounds like I'd really like them. (I love light, tactile, audible keyboards.)

bigpook · « **Reply #84 on:** Wed, 23 July 2008, 20:20:41 »

Quote from: iMav;6850

Actually, that is one thing that I like about the blues. You can just "flick" your fingers at the keys. I find that, once adjusted, I can type incredibly fast and accurate on them.

Yes, that is a good point. However, I will need to get used to it. I spend a lot of hours using the bs keyboards. It's almost like I get medieval on it. You actively type on a buckling spring keyboard. There is no doubt when you make contact with the key. Heck, the key is pushing your finger on the upstroke. Theres lots of feedback there.
The cherry blue switches on the other hand are almost ethereal in comparison. On the bs keyboard I can rest my fingers on the home row and feel the resistance of the keys underneath my fingers. On the DasIII it doesn't take much force at all to register the key. This is not a bad thing, but I will need to spend a fair bit of time using it and adjust to the way it works. The keystroke is different too, its almost like its linear as the key is depressed. Towards the bottom it clicks. Its cool though.

bigpook · « **Reply #85 on:** Wed, 23 July 2008, 20:22:21 »

Quote from: bhtooefr;6851

Hmm. Light actuation.

Crap, I really need to get a keyboard with blues. Sounds like I'd really like them. (I love light, tactile, audible keyboards.)

Judging from the above, I think you would like this keyboard.

003 · « **Reply #86 on:** Wed, 23 July 2008, 20:39:51 »

Hey, why is the DK Pro rated for 20 million keystrokes per key, and the Cherry G80-3000 is rated for 50 million? I thought they both use the cherry blue actuators? I have both keyboards, so whats up with the big difference?

bigpook · « **Reply #87 on:** Wed, 23 July 2008, 20:45:34 »

Quote from: 003;6854

Hey, why is the DK Pro rated for 20 million keystrokes per key, and the Cherry G80-3000 is rated for 50 million? I thought they both use the cherry blue actuators? I have both keyboards, so whats up with the big difference?

I have no idea, thats quite a difference.

Ulysses31 · « **Reply #88 on:** Wed, 23 July 2008, 21:00:48 »

50 million actuations is for Cherry blacks only. The G80-3000 most commonly comes with blacks although there are a few with blues and browns knocking around although they seem to be stocked in a very limited number of places.

003 · « **Reply #89 on:** Wed, 23 July 2008, 21:29:49 »

Can you give a brief explanation of the differences between the various Cherry actuators? It would be very helpful

outofideas · « **Reply #90 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 02:48:32 »

Here's my impressions of the Das Keyboard Professional after using it for 3 days. I've been using Model Ms for several years so that's what I'll be comparing it to.

I've noticed 2 main differences:
1. The feel, The Das Keyboard has a slightly lighter feel. I find the difference is more noticeable when I release the key, rather than when I press it. The Das Keyboard feels a bit mushy when it reaches the click point on the way back up. On day 1 I noticed the T key was stuck at that point, though it only happened once. Also the Das Keyboard feels a little more grating/uneven when you press a key, compared to the Model M, which is smoother.

2. The sound, the IBM just clicks, the Das Keyboard has a bit more of a white noise sound to it's clicks. I saw it described as a "snick" on Ars. Also I notice the sound of the keys bottoming out a lot more when typing on the Das Keyboard.

I mainly program, and play games, with a bit of writing on the side. I've done more gaming than anything with the new keyboard so far, so this is still a tentative opinion. But so far I'd say I prefer the Model M for writing/programming, and the Das Keyboard for gaming, mainly due to the n-key rollover, though the lighter feel is nicer for gaming as well.

I bought the Das Keyboard hoping for a Model M with N key rollover, "windows" keys, and slightly less noise. It's close, but not quite 100%. I'd guess the main issues causing me to not like the feel of the Das Keyboard as much, are the slight grittiness, and the mushier key return of the cherry key switches. I could imagine both improving a bit with some wear.

Does anyone know of another Keyboard that would be a closer match to a Model M with N key rollover and "windows" keys? I know I can get "windows" keys from unicomp, but they don't do n-key rollover. Other possibilities I'm aware of would be a Filco or Avant Prime, both available now at around $150, and possibly a Deck Legend or steelseries keyboard with brown/blue cherries in the future.

Has anyone here replaced a Model M with an Avant or a Filco and been happy with the change?

A final small difference is the Das Keyboard Professional's complete lack of PS/2 compatibility. I use a PS/2 KVM switch and my Das Keyboard doesn't work with it. Though at some point in the near future I'll be switching to a new KVM switch with USB and DVI so it won't a long term problem for me.

xsphat · « **Reply #91 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 03:30:56 »

I think the feel of the Model M is pretty much a standalone in the field of keyboards. Alps switches are closer to the feel of the M than the Cherry blues, but they don't go as deep and they are more wobbly than the buckling springs. I don't think black Cherry's are going to be your thing and I would bet money the Cherry browns won't be it either. If I were you, I'd get a keyboard with clicky white Alps sliders and try it out before you go and spend $150 on an Avant Prime. Try a Macally MK96 - you can pick one up on eBay for about $25 shipped.

BTW, I have owned keyboards with all the switches I've mentioned in this post.

003 · « **Reply #92 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 08:13:17 »

Quote from: outofideas;6859

Here's my impressions of the Das Keyboard Professional after using it for 3 days. I've been using Model Ms for several years so that's what I'll be comparing it to.

I've noticed 2 main differences:
1. The feel, The Das Keyboard has a slightly lighter feel. I find the difference is more noticeable when I release the key, rather than when I press it. The Das Keyboard feels a bit mushy when it reaches the click point on the way back up. On day 1 I noticed the T key was stuck at that point, though it only happened once. Also the Das Keyboard feels a little more grating/uneven when you press a key, compared to the Model M, which is smoother.

2. The sound, the IBM just clicks, the Das Keyboard has a bit more of a white noise sound to it's clicks. I saw it described as a "snick" on Ars. Also I notice the sound of the keys bottoming out a lot more when typing on the Das Keyboard.

I mainly program, and play games, with a bit of writing on the side. I've done more gaming than anything with the new keyboard so far, so this is still a tentative opinion. But so far I'd say I prefer the Model M for writing/programming, and the Das Keyboard for gaming, mainly due to the n-key rollover, though the lighter feel is nicer for gaming as well.

I bought the Das Keyboard hoping for a Model M with N key rollover, "windows" keys, and slightly less noise. It's close, but not quite 100%. I'd guess the main issues causing me to not like the feel of the Das Keyboard as much, are the slight grittiness, and the mushier key return of the cherry key switches. I could imagine both improving a bit with some wear.

Does anyone know of another Keyboard that would be a closer match to a Model M with N key rollover and "windows" keys? I know I can get "windows" keys from unicomp, but they don't do n-key rollover. Other possibilities I'm aware of would be a Filco or Avant Prime, both available now at around $150, and possibly a Deck Legend or steelseries keyboard with brown/blue cherries in the future.

Has anyone here replaced a Model M with an Avant or a Filco and been happy with the change?

A final small difference is the Das Keyboard Professional's complete lack of PS/2 compatibility. I use a PS/2 KVM switch and my Das Keyboard doesn't work with it. Though at some point in the near future I'll be switching to a new KVM switch with USB and DVI so it won't a long term problem for me.

The Avant Prime (and Stellar) only has 3-key rollover, and the lettering on the keys will come off. I called and asked. I am in exactly your position in looking for a keyboard, and I agree 100% with everything you said, including preferring the DK Pro to the Model M for gaming.

xsphat · « **Reply #93 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 10:25:32 »

That's incorrect. The Avant Prime has n-key rollover, just like all the Northgate Omnikeys do. It states that on their website:
http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/comparison.htm
and I distictly remember reading about it elsewhere.

Barring logos and a few other small internal changes, the Avant Prime is identical to the Omnikey 101P, and the Stellar is identical to the Omnikey Ultra T. Call them again and ask them when they removed that feature. I'm betting it has N-key rollover.

003 · « **Reply #94 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 10:51:38 »

I called up CVT and they tested n-key rollover for me, and told me over the phone that it would register up to 3 simultaneous key presses.

I just ordered a PS2 Deck Legend after confirming via e-mail that it supports unlimited key rollover (with PS2; 6 with USB), and uses black cherry actuators, rated for 50m presses. The only possible issue I see with the Deck Legend would be the black cherries, but really, they can't be that bad, and everything else with the keyboard is near perfect as far as I'm concerned. I will likely be returning the DK Pro.

It feels too dainty and smudges horribly.

xsphat · « **Reply #95 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 11:00:05 »

The black Cherry's are pretty bad. The feel like rubber dome switches. I've tried to like them for about a year and I can't do it.

You should have got a Prime and returned it if it doesn't do n-key rollover like it says it does everywhere. If they are making false claims on their website, they have to give you your money back. The rep you talked to most likely just wanted to get you off the phone because know more about keyboards than they did.

003 · « **Reply #96 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 11:08:55 »

This negative talk about the black cherries is unnerving to say the least but the fact stands that I have yet to try them myself. If I don't like them, I will return the keyboard. My list of possible keyboards is dwindling

If I could just make my Model M have unlimited key rollover ...

iMav · « **Reply #97 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 11:15:57 »

Quote from: 003;6883

This negative talk about the black cherries is unnerving to say the least but the fact stands that I have yet to try them myself. If I don't like them, I will return the keyboard. My list of possible keyboards is dwindling

If I could just make my Model M have unlimited key rollover ...

I'm curious. Which key combinations are you having issues with on your Model M? (in real world usage, gaming, etc....not when you are looking for rollover combination failures)

003 · « **Reply #98 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 11:28:00 »

I play FPS games, and I always use the keys ESDF as my movement keys, and then bind all the surrounding keys to different actions. When I want to crouch, move at an angle, zoom, and switch between different modes while firing, the Model M takes a crap.

xsphat · « **Reply #99 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 12:11:23 »

Quote from: 003;6883

This negative talk about the black cherries is unnerving to say the least but the fact stands that I have yet to try them myself. If I don't like them, I will return the keyboard. My list of possible keyboards is dwindling

If I could just make my Model M have unlimited key rollover ...

The only member here who ever liked the Cherry blacks was mr_sf_applet and he only said that to spite me.

And another assumption you have of the Avant Prime is incorrect - the lettering won't wear off either - just like the Northgates, the letter is made of plastic and the rest of the key is molded around it.

Sorry for all this, but I've been looking into that keyboard for a long time and I may still buy one because of how much I like my Omnikey. I've read all the reviews and talked to company reps a lot. Granted, n-key rollover isn't an issue for me and neither is the lettering wearing off but I ask a lot of questions in any case.

On a lighter note, what FPS games do you play? I really haven't played any newer ones because I have a gen one MacBook so it can't really handle them.

003 · « **Reply #100 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 12:35:54 »

Out of curiosity, have you ever used one of the CVT keyboards? I have never used one so I don't claim to be a god, but I called and spoke with a very friendly man over at CVT. He was patient and readily gave me information, and then he confirmed what he told me with their engineer via forwarding me an e-mail. I was told that the Avant Prime and Avant Stellar keyboards both support only 3 keys being pressed simultaneously, and I could hear the keys as they confirmed by testing for me over the phone.

"n-key rollover" technically would not be incorrect to label as a feature of the Avant keyboards, as the variable "n" only stands for an integer. It could only support "1-key rollover", and saying it had "n-key rollover" would not be incorrect.

And I was told quite conclusively that the lettering will eventually wear off, as they are printed on via some kind of glorified sticker. I forgot the actual term they used, it may have been silkscreening, though I think I am forgetting. But they said that when they wear off you can just get new keyboard stickers at any computer store.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, I'm just saying that this is what I was told when I called up CVT and spoke to them about the keyboards. And again, the guy I spoke to was very friendly and patient, and did not sound irritated or annoyed.

Now I'd really like to get to the bottom of what is correct here. How do they do the lettering? How many keys can be pressed simultaneously?

The games I play are UT3, CoD 4, Alone In The Dark (the new one), Devil May Cry 4, Crysis, Assassins Creed and Company Of Heroes. There are probably a few I'm forgetting as well.

003 · « **Reply #101 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 13:11:55 »

Hey I just thought of something! If I get the Deck Legend, and I don't like the black cherries, wouldn't I be able to disassemble the keyboard and replace them with blue cherries from another keyboard? Because aren't all the cherry switches [at least the ones we speak of] all the same shape and size? It might involve soldering, but how complex can they be?

iMav · « **Reply #102 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 13:22:13 »

Quote from: 003;6896

Hey I just thought of something! If I get the Deck Legend, and I don't like the black cherries, wouldn't I be able to disassemble the keyboard and replace them with blue cherries from another keyboard? Because aren't all the cherry switches [at least the ones we speak of] all the same shape and size? It might involve soldering, but how complex can they be?

Absolutely. It's been done by at least a few members here.

003 · « **Reply #103 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 13:27:58 »

SWEEET!!! And Deck even encourages you to mod their keyboards! Do you know, is soldering involved? Possibly links to threads where this operation has been performed?

Also, where is a good source for new blue cherries on the cheap?

Finally, whats the difference between the following cherries:

White =

Blue = Tactile; clicky
Black = Non tactile; linear
Brown =

Any others?

xsphat · « **Reply #104 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 13:31:14 »

I think I'm going to buy an Avant Prime with my student loans, and though I don't have a PS/2 port, I can still test if it has more than three key rollover. Now you have me all curious, and I could always return the thing if it's not what they say it is.

And IIRC, there is a thread on Deck's forum about switching the switches. I think they said it's possable but the LEDs make it a little tricky somehow. A quick search should find that one for you.

And how is the new Alone in the Dark? I loved the last one, A new Nightmare, and the videos I've seen of the game look fantastic. I didn't even know it was out yet. I'm way more into survival horror than FPS, but they are fun as well.

I hate talking to reps because, if you would have been around here a number of months back, a few of us on this forum went round and round with people at Cherry and their distributors and the conclusion I came up with is that until you buy and receive a Cherry keyboard, there is really no way of knowing what you'll get because everyone's info has the possibility of being bad. I only trust Karl at DSI and Jim Owens at Unicomp over the phone. Those two have always done right by me.

003 · « **Reply #105 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 13:34:39 »

The new AITD is a good game, however, it can be a bit confusing to control, at least on the PC anyway.

ashort · « **Reply #106 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 13:38:39 »

Quote from: 003;6898

SWEEET!!! And Deck even encourages you to mod their keyboards! Do you know, is soldering involved? Possibly links to threads where this operation has been performed?

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=609

This post in the keyboard mods section does a pretty good job of describing swapping out switches via soldering. Whether or not you need to solder depends on how the switches are mounted on the board. If you can get to the underside of the switch, you can mutilate a fork to make a tool that will allow you to pop the top of the switch off. The top is what differentiates the different MX switches. Replace the top with the cherry mx switch color of choice, and snap it back in.

itlnstln · « **Reply #107 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 14:05:37 »

Quote

Has anyone here replaced a Model M with an Avant or a Filco and been happy with the change?

I have been very happy with the change. I went from a Model M to a Northgate Evolution (see avatar). It feels very similar (but certainly not the same; the Alps keys feel a little lighter, sharper and snappier) to the Model M. There is a change in sound and feel, but not in a bad way. I can go back and forth from one to the other without a problem. I think if you went Alps (Avant or otherwise) you will be pleased.

bigpook · « **Reply #108 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 19:20:21 »

I got my dasIII a few days ago and was wondering if anybody else has one. If so, look at the picture here http://www.daskeyboard.com/

You will notice that it looks like it slopes down, physically, around the arrow keys. On the far left it starts to slope at the caps lock key. My dasIII, does not have this feature(?).
Does yours?

Never mind, I think its the picture, the lighting or something, that is causing it to look like that.

Ulysses31 · « **Reply #109 on:** Thu, 24 July 2008, 19:25:03 »

Yeah, it's just a reflection.

sugar · « **Reply #110 on:** Fri, 25 July 2008, 21:48:58 »

Now it's been about a week of use, I have noticed a couple things:

- for the one at work, the [BACKSPACE] key feels a bit "obstructed." I can hear a couple extra faint "clicking" sounds. I don't know what's under those mid-width keys but either something came loose or it needs re-seating, hopefully nothing's broken. This one is fairly new and the problem might just go away by itself after a few days of typing.

- for the one at home, the [W] key got stuck for a few times when I pressed it at an angle. It got stuck at about 2/3 of the way up but that was enough for it to not make a signal contact. HOWEVER, I can no longer reproduce the problem. I guess it was just a fresh-out-of-factory "friction" issue and disappeared after some use...

Other than the backspace key that might need some inspection, overall I have no complaint against this keyboard.

bigpook · « **Reply #111 on:** Fri, 25 July 2008, 22:12:14 »

I have had mine for a few days now, and its taking me a bit to get used to it. I haven't had any issues with the keys sticking. I pulled some of the keys off to see what was going on underneath. Not a whole lot : ) The keys seem to be solid, they don't flex or anything and they rest straight away on the stem of the keyswitch.

The action is so light compared to the BS keyboards I have. I can see where people can fly as they type on this kind of keyboard. Hopefully it will all smooth out in a week or so.

I read some reviews that said this board was loud. Its no where near as loud as my BS keyboards. The click is audible but subdued. All in all, its not so bad.

sugar · « **Reply #112 on:** Wed, 30 July 2008, 23:34:40 »

Quote from: sugar;6921

Now it's been about a week of use, I have noticed a couple things:

- for the one at work, the [BACKSPACE] key feels a bit "obstructed." I can hear a couple extra faint "clicking" sounds. I don't know what's under those mid-width keys but either something came loose or it needs re-seating, hopefully nothing's broken. This one is fairly new and the problem might just go away by itself after a few days of typing.

- for the one at home, the [W] key got stuck for a few times when I pressed it at an angle. It got stuck at about 2/3 of the way up but that was enough for it to not make a signal contact. HOWEVER, I can no longer reproduce the problem. I guess it was just a fresh-out-of-factory "friction" issue and disappeared after some use...

Other than the backspace key that might need some inspection, overall I have no complaint against this keyboard.

now both keys are normal

... although the long space bar feels kinda hollow when pressing at the two far side edges. I guess that's just what a 104 key layout brings...

003 · « **Reply #113 on:** Wed, 30 July 2008, 23:39:44 »

I just shipped mine back today. Speak of cheap feeling keys ... try pressing the right shift key near its far sides

In the mean time, typing on this Deck Legend with black cherries feels like absolute crap. But with a bit of modding, black is going to turn blue

bigpook · « **Reply #114 on:** Thu, 31 July 2008, 04:50:05 »

I am back on my model m spacesaver. I just couldn't get used to the dasIII. I let my wife give it a try and she said she liked it,so its on her desk now.

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