Author Topic: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB  (Read 206435 times)

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Offline belac

  • Posts: 62
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #400 on: Sat, 02 January 2016, 09:31:45 »
I just discovered this project.  I'd like to join the group buy but seems like the project has been around for about 18mo. now. Is it still alive? Are there updates?
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65528.0
Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #401 on: Sat, 02 January 2016, 13:39:13 »
35 cN for the quiet linears.  More info here...

Hi, about the linear switches, this page says the bottom out force is 35cn. Isn't that wrong? If the actuation force is 35cn, surely the force when you bottom out the switch should be greater.

Nice keyboard by the way! Is the cable detachable with (hopefully) micro-USB connector ?
Are the final DIP switch settings available? It would be nice if in the PC version you could have a DIP switch to switch Home/End to RightCtrl/~  (and have Fn+left/right be home/end instead).
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #402 on: Sat, 02 January 2016, 16:59:16 »

I just discovered this project.  I'd like to join the group buy but seems like the project has been around for about 18mo. now. Is it still alive? Are there updates?

https://geekhack.org/?topic=65528.0
Matias 60% Keyboard Group Buy


Yes, it's very much still on, but we've been delayed a bit by the PBT keycaps.  We're trying to work out a solution for white legends on black PBT -- we're close, but still not quite there.

I've been providing updates as people ask questions, but there are two different threads (this one and the one belac quoted above).



35 cN for the quiet linears.  More info here...

Hi, about the linear switches, this page says the bottom out force is 35cn. Isn't that wrong? If the actuation force is 35cn, surely the force when you bottom out the switch should be greater.

If it had just a simple coil spring (like a Cherry switch) that would be true, but there's a leaf spring that balances out the forces as you press.



Nice keyboard by the way! Is the cable detachable with (hopefully) micro-USB connector ?

Yes, it's micro-USB.



Are the final DIP switch settings available? It would be nice if in the PC version you could have a DIP switch to switch Home/End to RightCtrl/~  (and have Fn+left/right be home/end instead).

That's essentially the Mac version you're describing.  Just get the Mac one, and switch the DIP from Mac to PC.



Offline billm

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #403 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 00:07:39 »
Will the PCB and plate accept complicated ALPS?
If it's not ALPS it's crap!

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #404 on: Mon, 04 January 2016, 13:42:26 »
Will the PCB and plate accept complicated ALPS?

Yes, of course.  Simplified and complicated ALPS have the same PCB mounting specs.


Offline lobehold

  • Posts: 18
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #405 on: Thu, 11 February 2016, 12:57:47 »
We're trying to work out a solution for white legends on black PBT -- we're close, but still not quite there.

Wait, WoB keycaps is a thing? How do you get them? Do they come with the white case (plastic and aluminum)?

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #406 on: Fri, 19 February 2016, 17:45:41 »
@Matias: I suppose if you are trying to get white on black PBT you might be using a double-shot process (?).

For black on white PBT are you going to use dye sublimation? This is of course tried and true, formerly by IBM and others.

In my case, I am mostly interested in black blanks, but it would be good to have some color options as well, such as blank blue and blank red.


Offline Ludovician

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #407 on: Fri, 19 February 2016, 19:45:49 »
I am interested in white or blue blanks.
Typing speed:
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Visit the Typing Test and try!

My collection:
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HHKB Pro 2 (Blank, white) | HHKB Pro 2 Type-S (Blank, white) | Topre Realforce 87UB silent-modded (not currently functional) | Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent (MX Brown) | IBM Model M 1391401 - 9th January 1991 (Bolt+Floss-modded) | Apple keyboard m0116 (Orange Alps) | Unidentified DIN Keyboard (White Alps) | ADDS 1010 (Green Alps) | AEK II (Linear-modded, USB-converted) | IBM PC-AT Model F | Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Black) | Amstrad PC2286 | BigKeys LX | IBM Model M 1391401 - 6th September 1990 | IBM Model M2 1395300 - 28th February 1991 | Leopold FC660C | Cherry G80-11802 (MX Brown) | Matias Tactile Pro (Simplfied grey Alps) | Razer Blackwidow (MX Blue) | Novatouch 55g | Focus FK-2001 (White alps) | DSE Multitech (Blue alps) | Dell AT101W (Matias quiet) | Pok3r (White w/Clears) | KBP V80 (Blue Alps)

Pending:
Infinity kit

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #408 on: Fri, 19 February 2016, 20:03:45 »
After a year of using custom keyboards, I think these keyboards might make me use a production keyboard again

Can't wait until they are freely available
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #409 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 19:49:37 »
After a year of using custom keyboards, I think these keyboards might make me use a production keyboard again

Can't wait until they are freely available

I'm sorta leaning the same way, simply for time saving purposes.  I like learning and building stuff, but I'm at a point in my life that I need to focus more on income-generating learning and building stuff.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1660
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #410 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 22:21:12 »
After a year of using custom keyboards, I think these keyboards might make me use a production keyboard again

Can't wait until they are freely available

I'm sorta leaning the same way, simply for time saving purposes.  I like learning and building stuff, but I'm at a point in my life that I need to focus more on income-generating learning and building stuff.

Haha, same

However, keyboard building is my first hobby-hobby that produced something useful, and it's very motivate, motivation which can and does fuel money making endeavours

I really miss just buying a pre-produced keyboard, I still remember how excited I got when I first got my WASD V2's, the new keyboard smell - have never used any alps-type switches before, these keyboards would be a great introduction to alps

Whenever they are available, I will buy one of all the alps-type switched ones

I just hope they keep keycaps simple, and maybe not stick to the complex top-row: https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=60268.0;attach=70123;image - it would be great to own an alps keyboard that shares the simplicity of old apple keyboards that people still use and re-purpose
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline 3rain3ug

  • Posts: 11
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #411 on: Mon, 29 February 2016, 11:17:21 »
Could You give us a roadmap with some Milestones or something?
When we will get the keyboards?
18 Month was aspected since June 2014 (I already ordered mine in Nov 2014).
I get a litle bit worried about my money...

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #412 on: Tue, 01 March 2016, 05:19:40 »
Could You give us a roadmap with some Milestones or something?
When we will get the keyboards?

Yes, we were held up by the keycap tooling, but that's close to being resolved.  We now have a laser process for getting light on dark PBT legends (which is not possible with dyesub).  I posted an update (with photo) here...


The 3D design is mostly done also.  We're fixing a few things up before posting an update in the next few days.  We're aiming for production in the summer.



18 Month was aspected since June 2014 (I already ordered mine in Nov 2014).
I get a litle bit worried about my money...

You should not worry.  If you decide that it's too long a wait, you can contact us and get a full refund.

This has gone a lot longer than I originally planned, and I'm sorry about that.  Quite frankly, I think we aimed a little too high with the PBT tooling.  The legend printing process really screwed with our schedule.

Having said all that, most of the difficult work is now done, and if you can manage the wait, I think you'll be very happy with the keyboard.

Let me know if there are any other questions...


Offline bnthor

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #413 on: Tue, 01 March 2016, 07:43:39 »
Interested!

Keycaps: Mac - ISO (Even better if it was FR)
Nav Cluster:Full Nav Cluster
Switches: Quiet click ALPS
Fully Assembled



Offline Hypersphere

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #414 on: Tue, 01 March 2016, 08:36:44 »
Looking forward to seeing PBT caps for sale separately on the Matias site, with sizes for Matias keyboards as well as standard-layout keyboards. I am especially interested in black blanks for standard-layout keyboards.

Offline JaccoW

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #415 on: Tue, 01 March 2016, 10:32:29 »
I'll be keeping an eye on this thread again.
Do you still accept orders?
|||Daily driver: Duck Orion TKL
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|||Want to know what Keycap stores there are? Check out my Keyboard Pearltree and my (FS/FT/WTB) thread

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #416 on: Wed, 02 March 2016, 03:49:06 »
Yes, this GB is still open...


Really looking forward to finally having all this stuff finished!  :-)


Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #417 on: Thu, 03 March 2016, 21:19:37 »
Could You give us a roadmap with some Milestones or something?
When we will get the keyboards?

Yes, we were held up by the keycap tooling, but that's close to being resolved.  We now have a laser process for getting light on dark PBT legends (which is not possible with dyesub).  I posted an update (with photo) here...


The 3D design is mostly done also.  We're fixing a few things up before posting an update in the next few days.  We're aiming for production in the summer.



18 Month was aspected since June 2014 (I already ordered mine in Nov 2014).
I get a litle bit worried about my money...

You should not worry.  If you decide that it's too long a wait, you can contact us and get a full refund.

This has gone a lot longer than I originally planned, and I'm sorry about that.  Quite frankly, I think we aimed a little too high with the PBT tooling.  The legend printing process really screwed with our schedule.

Having said all that, most of the difficult work is now done, and if you can manage the wait, I think you'll be very happy with the keyboard.

Let me know if there are any other questions...

Thanks for the update and the offer for a refund, if anybody wants it.  Making stuff is hard.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline auto-d2

  • Posts: 1
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #418 on: Tue, 15 March 2016, 12:28:16 »
Just a couple of quick questions.

I take it there wasn't enough interest for a hardware Dvorak version?

Are the blank keycaps in the shop only suitable for the US layout?


Offline 3rain3ug

  • Posts: 11
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #419 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 05:17:36 »
Could You give us a roadmap with some Milestones or something?
When we will get the keyboards?

Yes, we were held up by the keycap tooling, but that's close to being resolved.  We now have a laser process for getting light on dark PBT legends (which is not possible with dyesub).  I posted an update (with photo) here...


The 3D design is mostly done also.  We're fixing a few things up before posting an update in the next few days.  We're aiming for production in the summer.



18 Month was aspected since June 2014 (I already ordered mine in Nov 2014).
I get a litle bit worried about my money...

You should not worry.  If you decide that it's too long a wait, you can contact us and get a full refund.

This has gone a lot longer than I originally planned, and I'm sorry about that.  Quite frankly, I think we aimed a little too high with the PBT tooling.  The legend printing process really screwed with our schedule.

Having said all that, most of the difficult work is now done, and if you can manage the wait, I think you'll be very happy with the keyboard.

Let me know if there are any other questions...

Thx for your Update and the possibility for a refund.
But I will trust you that you will get the things done! =)
I am genuinely curious to see the final product. I'll stay patiently...

Offline Luminair

  • Posts: 13
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #420 on: Sat, 02 April 2016, 01:42:30 »
60% feature concepts for sake of group discussion! :)

- arrows under WASD with fn+WASD
- option to swap fn and control
- windows key merged onto left alt :P so there are only 3 option keys on the left side

I also have a question: Is the clattering of keys on modern keyboards caused by the plastic switch stem touching the plastic key? If so, would rubberizing part of the mating surface stop this clacking? Or some other method? I've never enjoyed the way modern keyboards click when you tap the key (without pressing it down). Would the PBT keycap or aluminum base change this phenomenon?

Keep up the good work Mr. Matias! :)

Offline GooNyang

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #421 on: Sun, 03 April 2016, 17:16:47 »
What are the color options for the aluminum case?? Only black and silver? Also, how are matias linears compared to green alps?

Offline 3rain3ug

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #422 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 11:29:10 »
Update us please ;-)

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #423 on: Wed, 08 June 2016, 18:43:36 »
Forgot that I even ordered one of these...
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline 3rain3ug

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #424 on: Wed, 22 June 2016, 08:20:38 »
Hello? Update us please... !

Offline 3rain3ug

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #425 on: Wed, 29 June 2016, 06:43:08 »
Does anyone believe that there will be a day were we receive that keyboard?
Who from you ordered/paid for that ?

Offline dante

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #426 on: Wed, 29 June 2016, 08:31:47 »
I think Matias has been seduced by Dim Sum and is never returning from China.

Offline 3rain3ug

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #427 on: Sat, 02 July 2016, 03:46:37 »
and what now?

Offline Luminair

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #428 on: Sat, 02 July 2016, 23:04:39 »
Matias is watching us... watching and waiting to strike!

Offline sprit

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #429 on: Sat, 02 July 2016, 23:42:35 »
I think Matias has been seduced by Dim Sum and is never returning from China.
I love The Taiwanese Dim Sum  haha :)
« Last Edit: Sat, 02 July 2016, 23:45:49 by sprit »

Offline PriusProblems

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #430 on: Mon, 04 July 2016, 05:43:38 »
May I ask when orders are likely to close for this group buy? I want to join, but am in the middle of purchasing my first car and don't want to run out of money...

Offline Luminair

  • Posts: 13
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #431 on: Mon, 18 July 2016, 13:29:06 »
This is a new 60% keyboard

Are there any new pictures from the factory? :)

PS: Smart68 60% is up for sale and I want to offer my impression relative to Matias 60%.  See image: https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=83442.0;attach=142355;image -- Smart68 is 1 key wider, but that allows the delete key and pageup/pagedown keys to be in familiar places on the right hand side. I feel comfortable with the look of the Smart68 design. But I cannot say which is best to use, because I haven't used either.

Offline billm

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #432 on: Fri, 30 September 2016, 12:41:14 »
Is there a status update on this project?
If it's not ALPS it's crap!

Offline Lunatique

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #433 on: Fri, 30 September 2016, 13:09:57 »
I don't understand how small boutique shops with niche products seem to be designing and producing products much faster than a larger established company like Matias. Why is this taking so long?

Offline Belfong

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #434 on: Thu, 13 October 2016, 21:11:01 »
Is there a status update on this project?
If you read in the website https://matias.store/collections/mechanical-keyboards/products/60-keyboard?variant=21105295491
Quote
As of August 2016, we are happy to advise that we have received enough preorders that we will be doing the entire keyboard with PBT keycaps. Current estimate is that design and tooling will be finalized in Fall 2016, and production will occur in Spring 2017. Thanks for the feedback we have received from everyone in designing the keyboard features and options in this special group buy.
 

Offline billm

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #435 on: Thu, 13 October 2016, 22:16:19 »
Whatever man... I've more or less given up.
If it's not ALPS it's crap!

Offline menuhin

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #436 on: Sun, 16 October 2016, 09:44:51 »
Is there a status update on this project?
If you read in the website https://matias.store/collections/mechanical-keyboards/products/60-keyboard?variant=21105295491
Quote
As of August 2016, we are happy to advise that we have received enough preorders that we will be doing the entire keyboard with PBT keycaps. Current estimate is that design and tooling will be finalized in Fall 2016, and production will occur in Spring 2017. Thanks for the feedback we have received from everyone in designing the keyboard features and options in this special group buy.

Can the Mac layout work in Windows? There're functional layers to access the home/end and PgUp/PgDn in Mac, right?
What about Linux?

I'm not waiting, but this product will finally be there in 2017. Just like the Apple iPhone.
I can stand only PBT caps, so I'm all up for it now. I hope by the way, the price can be adjusted.
Wishlist: 1) nice thick Alps caps; 2) Cherry profile POM;
More
Wishful-list: 1) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 2) usable Trackpoint module for all keyboards
IBM M13 black
NeXT non-ADB keyboard (AAE)
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline billm

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #437 on: Thu, 22 December 2016, 14:10:55 »
I joined this group buy in Jan 2016. At that point the project was already 18months old. I asked and was assured that it was still alive so I paid. Its now December 2016 and the website for the project does not project having shippable product until Fall 2017.

At some point incompetence simply becomes fraud. How about a refund, or was this just a scam all along?
If it's not ALPS it's crap!

Offline belac

  • Posts: 62
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #438 on: Thu, 22 December 2016, 14:13:21 »
I joined this group buy in Jan 2016. At that point the project was already 18months old. I asked and was assured that it was still alive so I paid. Its now December 2016 and the website for the project does not project having shippable product until Fall 2017.

At some point incompetence simply becomes fraud. How about a refund, or was this just a scam all along?
Matias has already said they will issue a refund to anyone that doesn't want to wait.

Offline billm

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #439 on: Thu, 22 December 2016, 14:18:41 »
Great! Do you know where I can officially request one?

I don't mean to be a ****, but in my experience the only way a project can languish for 2.5 years is if nobody is actually doing the work.
« Last Edit: Thu, 22 December 2016, 14:22:14 by billm »
If it's not ALPS it's crap!

Offline belac

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #440 on: Thu, 22 December 2016, 14:24:04 »
Great! Do you know where I can officially request one?

I don't mean to be a ****, but in my experience the only way a project can languish for 2.5 years is if nobody is actually doing the work.
This is the post where be mentioned it https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgeekhack%2Eorg%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D60268%2Emsg2077709%2Emsg%232077709&share_tid=60268&share_fid=2190&share_type=t&share_pid=2077709
 so you can probably just reply to your order confirmation email. That's what I did when I was seeking more information.

Offline billm

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #441 on: Thu, 22 December 2016, 14:25:27 »
thanks
If it's not ALPS it's crap!

Offline Lunatique

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #442 on: Thu, 22 December 2016, 14:33:03 »
I joined this group buy in Jan 2016. At that point the project was already 18months old. I asked and was assured that it was still alive so I paid. Its now December 2016 and the website for the project does not project having shippable product until Fall 2017.

At some point incompetence simply becomes fraud. How about a refund, or was this just a scam all along?
Matias has already said they will issue a refund to anyone that doesn't want to wait.

I asked for a refund recently and got it, so I can attest to this.

Yes, it's disappointing when an established company takes this long to produce a keyboard (I'm also looking at you, TextBlade). There are Kickstarter/Indiegogo campaigns involving much more complex tech that has gotten done faster than this. But I actually don't mind waiting for pre-ordered products if it's not something I urgently need. I mean, I have far too many keyboards already, so it's really just a luxury item for me.

The reason I cancelled my order was because I just don't have any patience for keyboard layouts that require me to use Fn combos for often used keys anymore, because they are just not worth the trouble when you need to be productive (I use Function keys all the time when using Photoshop, as well as just in general). I now also think this quest to make keyboards smaller is counterproductive, because ergonomically, once you shrink past TKL layout, ergonomics in relation to muscle memory drops in efficiency, since there are less tactile cues to find keys without looking (such as useful gaps between key clusters), and Fn combos are not ideal. Realistically, just how many people have so tiny of a desk space that they desperately need to shave off size from a TKL keyboard? I'm going to sell off all of my non-TKL keyboards at this point because after years of trying different layouts, none are better than TKL for me.

Offline billm

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #443 on: Thu, 22 December 2016, 15:02:58 »
OK well I just found my original invoice and requested a refund. We'll see.

Now to see what can be done about the $175 I spent on Round 6 keycaps from 7bit at Deskthority, also going on a year and no product.

No more "group buys" for me.
If it's not ALPS it's crap!

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #444 on: Mon, 26 December 2016, 12:57:13 »
OK well I just found my original invoice and requested a refund. We'll see.

Now to see what can be done about the $175 I spent on Round 6 keycaps from 7bit at Deskthority, also going on a year and no product.

No more "group buys" for me.


Sorry you've had to wait so long.  You can certainly get a refund.  I've mentioned this before.

I think we over-promised what was reasonable to do in the time span we laid out -- especially the PBT keycaps.

However, the project is still going forward, and I believe that those who stick with it will be pleasantly surprised with the final unit they receive.

There's some more related info in this post...


Please feel free to post questions.


Offline Belfong

  • Posts: 5217
  • Location: Malaysia
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #445 on: Mon, 26 December 2016, 19:33:21 »
One of the reasons I enjoyed Matias keyboard is that the space bar and mod keys - those that needed a stabilizer - are extremely quiet and does not creak, unlike some of the Cherry I have that requires lots of tweaking and oiling. I can be pressing and the edge and they all go down quietly. I hope that's the case with the new stab and that fat space bar in the 60% will got give any problems.
 

Offline Luminair

  • Posts: 13
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #446 on: Tue, 24 January 2017, 22:33:02 »
Please feel free to post questions.

One of the gentlepeople above made an interesting point about the F-keys. They basically say that any use of the F-keys makes removing them not worth the space saved.

The reason I cancelled my order was because I just don't have any patience for keyboard layouts that require me to use Fn combos for often used keys anymore, because they are just not worth the trouble when you need to be productive (I use Function keys all the time when using Photoshop, as well as just in general). I now also think this quest to make keyboards smaller is counterproductive, because ergonomically, once you shrink past TKL layout, ergonomics in relation to muscle memory drops in efficiency, since there are less tactile cues to find keys without looking (such as useful gaps between key clusters), and Fn combos are not ideal. Realistically, just how many people have so tiny of a desk space that they desperately need to shave off size from a TKL keyboard? I'm going to sell off all of my non-TKL keyboards at this point because after years of trying different layouts, none are better than TKL for me.

I think this is a valid point. I don't know how many people are happy without F-keys... But I do know that you are uniquely positioned to add small F-keys to a 60% mechanical keyboard! :) Have you considered another sibling to this and Ergo Pro, with the F-keys on top? I suspect you have. There may even be a prototype image on your computer ;)

To all readers: Has there ever been a poll to compare interest between a regular 60% keyboard and one with F-keys? (Not TKL)

Offline Lunatique

  • Posts: 292
  • Writer, Composer, Artist, Photographer, Gamer
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #447 on: Tue, 24 January 2017, 22:57:13 »
Please feel free to post questions.

One of the gentlepeople above made an interesting point about the F-keys. They basically say that any use of the F-keys makes removing them not worth the space saved.

The reason I cancelled my order was because I just don't have any patience for keyboard layouts that require me to use Fn combos for often used keys anymore, because they are just not worth the trouble when you need to be productive (I use Function keys all the time when using Photoshop, as well as just in general). I now also think this quest to make keyboards smaller is counterproductive, because ergonomically, once you shrink past TKL layout, ergonomics in relation to muscle memory drops in efficiency, since there are less tactile cues to find keys without looking (such as useful gaps between key clusters), and Fn combos are not ideal. Realistically, just how many people have so tiny of a desk space that they desperately need to shave off size from a TKL keyboard? I'm going to sell off all of my non-TKL keyboards at this point because after years of trying different layouts, none are better than TKL for me.

I think this is a valid point. I don't know how many people are happy without F-keys... But I do know that you are uniquely positioned to add small F-keys to a 60% mechanical keyboard! :) Have you considered another sibling to this and Ergo Pro, with the F-keys on top? I suspect you have. There may even be a prototype image on your computer ;)

To all readers: Has there ever been a poll to compare interest between a regular 60% keyboard and one with F-keys? (Not TKL)

It seems like the closest thing would be 84-key keyboards, but those have the problem of erasing all spaces between clusters, thus harder to hit specific keys with muscle memory/tactile feel alone.

If Matias (or any other company) made something like what you're describing (Matias 60% but with all 12 tiny Function keys at the top, or anywhere else), I would buy it in a heartbeat. But this goes back to my original question--how many people have such tiny desk spaces that they need to shave off that extra couple of inches from a TKL layout?

Offline StormyMonday

  • Posts: 148
  • Location: Republic of Texas
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #448 on: Thu, 26 January 2017, 03:13:45 »
Please feel free to post questions.

One of the gentlepeople above made an interesting point about the F-keys. They basically say that any use of the F-keys makes removing them not worth the space saved.

The reason I cancelled my order was because I just don't have any patience for keyboard layouts that require me to use Fn combos for often used keys anymore, because they are just not worth the trouble when you need to be productive (I use Function keys all the time when using Photoshop, as well as just in general). I now also think this quest to make keyboards smaller is counterproductive, because ergonomically, once you shrink past TKL layout, ergonomics in relation to muscle memory drops in efficiency, since there are less tactile cues to find keys without looking (such as useful gaps between key clusters), and Fn combos are not ideal. Realistically, just how many people have so tiny of a desk space that they desperately need to shave off size from a TKL keyboard? I'm going to sell off all of my non-TKL keyboards at this point because after years of trying different layouts, none are better than TKL for me.

I think this is a valid point. I don't know how many people are happy without F-keys... But I do know that you are uniquely positioned to add small F-keys to a 60% mechanical keyboard! :) Have you considered another sibling to this and Ergo Pro, with the F-keys on top? I suspect you have. There may even be a prototype image on your computer ;)

To all readers: Has there ever been a poll to compare interest between a regular 60% keyboard and one with F-keys? (Not TKL)

It seems like the closest thing would be 84-key keyboards, but those have the problem of erasing all spaces between clusters, thus harder to hit specific keys with muscle memory/tactile feel alone.

If Matias (or any other company) made something like what you're describing (Matias 60% but with all 12 tiny Function keys at the top, or anywhere else), I would buy it in a heartbeat. But this goes back to my original question--how many people have such tiny desk spaces that they need to shave off that extra couple of inches from a TKL layout?

Perhaps some have limited desk space, but many choose 60% and smaller boards due to portability concerns, as the bulk of today's laptops are equipped with absolutely horrid chicklet keyboards!
I suspect that there is also a growing demand for Bluetooth enabled 60% and 40% keyboards, for those who decide to leave their laptop behind and begin to rely more and more on their tablets and smart phones.

Offline belac

  • Posts: 62
Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #449 on: Thu, 26 January 2017, 07:54:53 »


Please feel free to post questions.

One of the gentlepeople above made an interesting point about the F-keys. They basically say that any use of the F-keys makes removing them not worth the space saved.

The reason I cancelled my order was because I just don't have any patience for keyboard layouts that require me to use Fn combos for often used keys anymore, because they are just not worth the trouble when you need to be productive (I use Function keys all the time when using Photoshop, as well as just in general). I now also think this quest to make keyboards smaller is counterproductive, because ergonomically, once you shrink past TKL layout, ergonomics in relation to muscle memory drops in efficiency, since there are less tactile cues to find keys without looking (such as useful gaps between key clusters), and Fn combos are not ideal. Realistically, just how many people have so tiny of a desk space that they desperately need to shave off size from a TKL keyboard? I'm going to sell off all of my non-TKL keyboards at this point because after years of trying different layouts, none are better than TKL for me.

I think this is a valid point. I don't know how many people are happy without F-keys... But I do know that you are uniquely positioned to add small F-keys to a 60% mechanical keyboard! :) Have you considered another sibling to this and Ergo Pro, with the F-keys on top? I suspect you have. There may even be a prototype image on your computer ;)

To all readers: Has there ever been a poll to compare interest between a regular 60% keyboard and one with F-keys? (Not TKL)

It seems like the closest thing would be 84-key keyboards, but those have the problem of erasing all spaces between clusters, thus harder to hit specific keys with muscle memory/tactile feel alone.

If Matias (or any other company) made something like what you're describing (Matias 60% but with all 12 tiny Function keys at the top, or anywhere else), I would buy it in a heartbeat. But this goes back to my original question--how many people have such tiny desk spaces that they need to shave off that extra couple of inches from a TKL layout?

Perhaps some have limited desk space, but many choose 60% and smaller boards due to portability concerns, as the bulk of today's laptops are equipped with absolutely horrid chicklet keyboards!
I suspect that there is also a growing demand for Bluetooth enabled 60% and 40% keyboards, for those who decide to leave their laptop behind and begin to rely more and more on their tablets and smart phones.

Personally, I use a 60% board (Poker II is current daily driver) for the ergonomics and the aesthetics while portability was never a consideration. I was skeptical about them especially considering my line of work because I rely heavily on keyboard shortcuts for all of the software I use.  Thankfully I had the option to try my coworkers' in person, and at first, my skepticism was validated. However, after about a week of using it, I was hooked and there was no going back to a full size or TKL board. In fact, I traded my full size board for his Poker that I'm currently using. That was three years ago. My office mates will still bring by strangers by from other parts of the company to look at my keyboard and talk about how "unusable" it is while joking about taking up donations so that I can afford a board with all the keys. Sometimes though, one of them will watch me work... they see  things happening on the screen faster than this tiny keyboard could produce... they hear the sweet subtle sound of cherry clears sheathed in PBT... and then... they look at my hands and see that they barely move... and it clicks with them that something amazing might be happening. I let them borrow it for a week, and all but one has ended up becoming a convert.