Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:06:13
As long as you're not buying from Massdrop or PMK so they can make money, it's gonna cost them the same amount of money for them to produce but cost you more to get your set so they can make up for the money they lose out on without marking up the sets.
http://www.massdrop.community/mechkeys/troubled-minds/
If we take a look here at a set run recently which should have been after their supposed price increase, Base kit + ISO + nonstandard + numpad = $150.96 at 100 MOQ (which not every kit even met that MOQ, some of the numbers are abysmal)
That includes Massdrop + designer mark ups in pricing, has significantly more keys involved than my all in 1, has kits split up, and even custom legends novelty and dyesub which cost $45 each, AND includes shipping costs to Massdrop.
The quote I was given from SP was the following:
25 sets $237.61 per set
50 sets $171.32 per set
75 sets $149.23 per set
100 sets $138.18 per set
150 sets $127.13 per set
200 sets $121.61 per set
250 sets $118.29 per set
The set I'm quoting is 138 keys with 2 space bars and 2 blanks, no custom legends, and does not include ANY additional fees, not even shipping to our distributor and then shipping to you guys.
Yet both of our sets are $1/key at 100 MOQ
Hm..........
So dusk was $169 for 130 keys split into 4 different kits, they got it even worse.
Official response was
"Sorry I wasn't clear - Massdrop gets a larger discount because of the overall volume that they purchase from us. We use the same price formula and the same set volume discount scale, Massdrop just has earned a larger discount."
So basically all these GB's we've run giving them money all these years earns us a big **** you.
More
WELCOME TO FLATLINE
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/2T0Z3W022H0H03360206/Image%202016-01-24%20at%209.56.27%20PM.png?v=47e315c0)
(http://i.imgur.com/uMX1WDV.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/fsK3u1w.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/MVEWdIh.jpg)
This will be a fully sculpted SA set (1-1-2-3-4-4) with whatever the stock font is. Colors used will be BBJ and NN. It will be all in 1 with as much support for other layouts as I can without jacking up the price too high to be unreasonable. Not sure if there are plans for other kits atm. No novelty keys. F and J are dishes.
If you have questions or suggestions feel free to post.
This will be run old school GB style, no corporate backing and no profit. Just some enthusiasts dedicating some time and love to creating a set the community wants.
Also stayed tuned for some matching Classic Reapers.
(http://i.imgur.com/jfm5HDE.jpg)
NOTE: THE REAPER WILL NOT BE INCLUDED IN THIS GROUP BUY AND IS A STANDALONE SALE UP TO BRO'S DISCRETION. I am however getting him the SP color swatches of NN and BBJ so it will color match this set :)
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:09:09
Post by: absyrd on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:09:24
**** a "backspace"! "oMiT" what you just typed!
(http://i.imgur.com/7XMOV4J.jpg)
Post by: sitch on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:09:28
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:10:19
This novelty canz be inkluded?
**** a "backspace"! "oMiT" what you just typed!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7XMOV4J.jpg)
I actually like this a lot.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:10:40
Signature plastic approved using the same colorway?
Their terms that melvang actually bothered to read says so at least. If not then I'll just change the shade of grey
I've got 50 of em
Post by: demik on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:12:23
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:13:23
If you want people to get excited, post this on reddit once you've got some traction - this colorway is very popular there.
Post by: inanis on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:14:15
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:15:07
If you want people to get excited, post this on reddit once you've got some traction - this colorway is very popular there.
This would guarantee you meet MOQ.
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:15:47
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:19:35
I already sold me OG set, but this sounds fun.
If you want people to get excited, post this on reddit once you've got some traction - this colorway is very popular there.
Insta +1000 karma
Post an IC on there. I actually want to see how far it will go. :thumb:
Post by: demik on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:20:43
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:21:17
I already sold me OG set, but this sounds fun.
If you want people to get excited, post this on reddit once you've got some traction - this colorway is very popular there.
Insta +1000 karma
Post an IC on there. I actually want to see how far it will go. :thumb:
hold off before posting on reddit because I won't be grabbing any redditor's attention without any pictures or w/e
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:21:37
I still hate you sifo
I'm gonna name this set after bee
Post by: demik on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:28:49
I still hate you sifo
I'm gonna name this set after bee c
Count me out. I hope it fails now.
Team mito for life
Post by: MiTo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:31:47
Thanks for the idea though, y'all gonna have a little surprise.
Post by: Zanduby on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:33:39
This thread is entertaining.
Post by: inanis on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:33:54
I'm only in for Eslup...much prettier. Something about Pulse is very off putting. Run both!
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:34:25
popcorn.jpg(http://img.michaeljacksonspictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/popcorn-blank.gif)
This thread is entertaining.
Post by: Zanduby on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:35:03
popcorn.jpg
This thread is entertaining.Show Image(http://img.michaeljacksonspictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/popcorn-blank.gif)
Yep, thats the one.
Post by: beehatch on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:36:42
You're a little late pal. Missed the window by a couple of minutes.
Thanks for the idea though, y'all gonna have a little surprise.
**** off already
Post by: Zanduby on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:38:53
popcorn.jpg
This thread is entertaining.Show Image(http://img.michaeljacksonspictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/popcorn-blank.gif)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/RHiD0K65NxxLO/giphy.gif)
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:39:35
Post by: beehatch on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:39:43
and...this was just posted
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:40:10
Again the question is do you guys actually want this set or not because I sure as hell don't but if enough people do then you will have some sort of replica of it
Honestly, I'd have to see some mock-ups first.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:43:07
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 09:53:57
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 19 January 2016, 10:05:31
Hey okay cool. Mission accomplished, mito is gonna run r2 himself so I don't have to do anything. You're welcome guys I take all the credit for round 2 happening
Well his post isn't faring so well, so I'm not sure how much traction it will have.
Post by: harlw on Tue, 19 January 2016, 10:07:20
Post by: jbondeson on Tue, 19 January 2016, 10:09:24
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 19 January 2016, 10:13:00
I say we switch this up and go cherry font and alps stems!
But wouldn't cherry font for SA require an entire new set of legends being made and paid for??
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 19 January 2016, 10:13:43
I say we switch this up and go cherry font and alps stems!
But wouldn't cherry font for SA require an entire new set of legends being made and paid for??
Plus I don't think SP would make different stems, but who knows?
Post by: jbondeson on Tue, 19 January 2016, 10:15:07
I say we switch this up and go cherry font and alps stems!
But wouldn't cherry font for SA require an entire new set of legends being made and paid for??
They don't have Alps stems for SA, so alps would requite DCS/DSA anyway :'(
Post by: nickheller on Tue, 19 January 2016, 10:15:39
Could also switch to DCS profile, but then it is not really what Eslup is all aboutI say we switch this up and go cherry font and alps stems!
But wouldn't cherry font for SA require an entire new set of legends being made and paid for??
Post by: jbondeson on Tue, 19 January 2016, 10:18:40
Could also switch to DCS profile, but then it is not really what Eslup is all aboutI say we switch this up and go cherry font and alps stems!
But wouldn't cherry font for SA require an entire new set of legends being made and paid for??
True, this really isn't about turning a marginal keyset into something that could be good. :))
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 19 January 2016, 10:20:26
this key in Penumbra, Raindrop, Toxic, Eslup, Calm Depths, Red Alert, Klaxon, Sanctuary, etc and tons of other already used colorways?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7XMOV4J.jpg)
Post by: MiTo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 10:53:02
I'll pay any amount of money to piss MiTo off.
You could spend on rendering classes instead, so you could offer more of your ****ty rendering services in exchange of free sets like you did with Carbon.
But the community appreciate you charging to "help" others, so who am I to say otherwise.
No amount of money in this world will be enoug to piss me off, I'm so zen.
And it pays off, since I'm getting my own keycap funded by GeekHack!
:thumb:
EDIT: People are free to do whatever they want with their skills, it was a mistake to bring this up.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 19 January 2016, 11:02:01
I'll pay any amount of money to piss MiTo off.
Do like me and spend money on useful stuff, I used it for icons.
You could spend on rendering classes instead, so you could offer more of your ****ty rendering services in exchange of free sets like you did with Carbon.
But the community appreciate you charging to "help" others, so who am I to say otherwise.
No amount of money in this world will be enoug to piss me off, I'm so zen.
And it pays off, since I'm getting my own keycap funded by GeekHack!
:thumb:
/me yawns
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 19 January 2016, 11:31:17
/me yawns
I think you caught that bug from jwaz...
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 19 January 2016, 11:39:07
/me yawns
I think you caught that bug from jwaz...
:eek:
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 19 January 2016, 12:04:11
Run this set with the correct blue color (BBJ), in 1-1-2-3-4-4, and you have a winner. Just don't use PMK or MD...do an old school GB where you take orders, order the caps, sort and ship yourself. I will support you level 9000 if you do this!!!11!!1!
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 12:07:34
Sifo,
Run this set with the correct blue color (BBJ), in 1-1-2-3-4-4, and you have a winner. Just don't use PMK or MD...do an old school GB where you take orders, order the caps, sort and ship yourself. I will support you level 9000 if you do this!!!11!!1!
u fuking kidding me it isn't the year 2010 i ain't doing the latter
Post by: Zapheo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 12:08:28
Sifo,
Run this set with the correct blue color (BBJ), in 1-1-2-3-4-4, and you have a winner. Just don't use PMK or MD...do an old school GB where you take orders, order the caps, sort and ship yourself. I will support you level 9000 if you do this!!!11!!1!
u fuking kidding me it isn't the year 2010 i ain't doing the latter
Sifo pls
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 19 January 2016, 12:38:25
Sifo,
Run this set with the correct blue color (BBJ), in 1-1-2-3-4-4, and you have a winner. Just don't use PMK or MD...do an old school GB where you take orders, order the caps, sort and ship yourself. I will support you level 9000 if you do this!!!11!!1!
u fuking kidding me it isn't the year 2010 i ain't doing the latter
Get them pre-sorted.
Post by: Zapheo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 12:40:48
Sifo,
Run this set with the correct blue color (BBJ), in 1-1-2-3-4-4, and you have a winner. Just don't use PMK or MD...do an old school GB where you take orders, order the caps, sort and ship yourself. I will support you level 9000 if you do this!!!11!!1!
u fuking kidding me it isn't the year 2010 i ain't doing the latter
Get them pre-sorted.
Sifo is the hero GH needs
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Tue, 19 January 2016, 12:45:06
Sifo,
Run this set with the correct blue color (BBJ), in 1-1-2-3-4-4, and you have a winner. Just don't use PMK or MD...do an old school GB where you take orders, order the caps, sort and ship yourself. I will support you level 9000 if you do this!!!11!!1!
u fuking kidding me it isn't the year 2010 i ain't doing the latter
But its so much better to have no idea when my set will actually be sorted out by some guy I've never met in my life!
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 19 January 2016, 12:48:14
Signature plastic approved using the same colorway?
Per Melissa, colorways are open season and there is no protection on them.
(http://i.imgur.com/qt7HXlC.jpg)
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 19 January 2016, 12:49:34
I already sold me OG set, but this sounds fun.
If you want people to get excited, post this on reddit once you've got some traction - this colorway is very popular there.
Not only that, that colorway seems tremendously popular on MassDrop where several polls have it at well over 200 votes a piece and up well over that.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 12:49:42
Signature plastic approved using the same colorway?
Per Melissa, colorways are open season and there is no protection on them.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qt7HXlC.jpg)
Yep aka it's gonna happen. Unfortunately it will have to be through PMK probably because I'm not gonna sort this **** myself, but you guys are gonna have to vote or however the hell their system works. I'm at work so I'll figure this **** out later
Post by: Badwrench on Tue, 19 January 2016, 12:51:16
Sifo,
Run this set with the correct blue color (BBJ), in 1-1-2-3-4-4, and you have a winner. Just don't use PMK or MD...do an old school GB where you take orders, order the caps, sort and ship yourself. I will support you level 9000 if you do this!!!11!!1!
Totally This ! Oh, and get rid of the random colors and legends from the add on kit, keep it simple.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 19 January 2016, 12:59:40
Signature plastic approved using the same colorway?
Per Melissa, colorways are open season and there is no protection on them.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qt7HXlC.jpg)
Yep aka it's gonna happen. Unfortunately it will have to be through PMK probably because I'm not gonna sort this **** myself, but you guys are gonna have to vote or however the hell their system works. I'm at work so I'll figure this **** out later
Sweet. Honestly, I don't mind going through PMK or MassDrop. I can't say I blame you on wanting to use one of those systems to handle orders.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:03:02
Sifo,
Run this set with the correct blue color (BBJ), in 1-1-2-3-4-4, and you have a winner. Just don't use PMK or MD...do an old school GB where you take orders, order the caps, sort and ship yourself. I will support you level 9000 if you do this!!!11!!1!
Totally This ! Oh, and get rid of the random colors and legends from the add on kit, keep it simple.
I plan to keep this as simple as possible.
Please keep in mind this is a serious IC guys, so I need to know what weird ass kits everyone wants added to it.
Otherwise it will be
Base TKL
Tenkey add on
Tsangan Kit
ISO kit
That's all I know rofl
I'm not doing novelty keys and I'm not doing super leet custom legends you want the colorway on a keyset that you can use for your keyboard cool I will get that to you.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:18:57
Thoughts on what others might request:
- ErgoDox kit
- Planck kit
- Additional space bar sizes (others are likely to chime in here)
- White Fox compatibility keys (others chiming in here again, I assume)
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:21:41
Base TKL
Tenkey add on
Tsangan Kit
ISO kit
What is this 2010??
But yeah I say go for it.
Actually, screw it. One big mega-pack like Hack'd. Go.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:27:45
Base TKL
Tenkey add on
Tsangan Kit
ISO kit
What is this 2010??
But yeah I say go for it.
Actually, screw it. One big mega-pack like Hack'd. Go.
You know, that would simply things quite a bit. No confusion, just everything in one shot.
Post by: xondat on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:29:56
SAY NO MORE FAM
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:30:00
Base TKL
Tenkey add on
Tsangan Kit
ISO kit
What is this 2010??
But yeah I say go for it.
Actually, screw it. One big mega-pack like Hack'd. Go.
I wish, then it would be easy to make everyone happy. -_-
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:30:16
Post by: fliptrik on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:30:22
Signature plastic approved using the same colorway?
Per Melissa, colorways are open season and there is no protection on them.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qt7HXlC.jpg)
Yep aka it's gonna happen. Unfortunately it will have to be through PMK probably because I'm not gonna sort this **** myself, but you guys are gonna have to vote or however the hell their system works. I'm at work so I'll figure this **** out later
If you want to do the group buy without PMK or MD, I can sort them and ship them out. I actually love sorting things...
Post by: romevi on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:33:46
Anyway, interested.
Post by: dgneo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:38:53
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:45:21
Took me three clicks before I got the name.
How many clicks to the center of the lollipop?
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:53:58
Took me three clicks before I got the name.
How many clicks to the center of the lollipop?
42!
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:57:30
Nope -- three.Took me three clicks before I got the name.
How many clicks to the center of the lollipop?
42!
Post by: romevi on Tue, 19 January 2016, 13:58:25
Nope -- three.Took me three clicks before I got the name.
How many clicks to the center of the lollipop?
42!
The world may never know.
Post by: Data on Tue, 19 January 2016, 14:08:24
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 19 January 2016, 14:17:14
More petty, vindictive, juvenile ****-waving and manufactured drama. Thanks guys, this does a lot to grow the keyboard community. :thumb:Thank you for your input.
Post by: Halverson on Tue, 19 January 2016, 14:18:37
More petty, vindictive, juvenile ****-waving and manufactured drama. Thanks guys, this does a lot to grow the keyboard community. :thumb:Thank you for your input.
K
Post by: Zapheo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 14:22:55
More petty, vindictive, juvenile ****-waving and manufactured drama. Thanks guys, this does a lot to grow the keyboard community. :thumb:
You're welcome.
Post by: jerue on Tue, 19 January 2016, 14:38:00
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 19 January 2016, 14:39:12
lel spac roloc ecruos nepo htiw dna AS sti ecnis yllaicepse .tes pacyek yllis sid tnaw I
Was this as difficult to write as it was to read? :))
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 19 January 2016, 14:39:42
lel spac roloc ecruos nepo htiw dna AS sti ecnis yllaicepse .tes pacyek yllis sid tnaw I
Was this as difficult to write as it was to read? :))
lol I haven't read that slow in awhile. :P
Post by: lishi on Tue, 19 January 2016, 14:43:09
I'll be in for one set. I don't even like SA but I do like pissing off stupid people.
Post by: sherryton on Tue, 19 January 2016, 14:44:07
Signature plastic approved using the same colorway?
Per Melissa, colorways are open season and there is no protection on them.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qt7HXlC.jpg)
Yep aka it's gonna happen. Unfortunately it will have to be through PMK probably because I'm not gonna sort this **** myself, but you guys are gonna have to vote or however the hell their system works. I'm at work so I'll figure this **** out later
If you want to do the group buy without PMK or MD, I can sort them and ship them out. I actually love sorting things...
No you do not, trust me.
Signature plastic approved using the same colorway?
Per Melissa, colorways are open season and there is no protection on them.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qt7HXlC.jpg)
Yep aka it's gonna happen. Unfortunately it will have to be through PMK probably because I'm not gonna sort this **** myself, but you guys are gonna have to vote or however the hell their system works. I'm at work so I'll figure this **** out later
Just make it buffet style. Everyone flies to Sifo place. We each go around the table to pick up 1 key from each pack, but 2 for the Control/Alt.
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 19 January 2016, 14:55:34
Is that being greedy? :(
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 14:58:12
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gVVjiBa.png)
SAY NO MORE FAM
Thanks so we're doing 1 big pack with no bull****?
I honestly want this to happen mainly since I want a proper sculpted cyan/black SA set with out the lame ass icons.
Is that being greedy? :(
no this is exactly what i'm tryna do
Post by: lishi on Tue, 19 January 2016, 14:59:02
I honestly want this to happen mainly since I want a proper sculpted cyan/black SA set with out the lame ass icons.
Is that being greedy? :(
Agreed, Mito claims to be a designer and then designs some of the ugliest icons I've ever seen in my life. He claims that he hand made the Printer and Home icons and didn't steal them which honestly is more embarrassing than getting caught as a thief
Post by: harlw on Tue, 19 January 2016, 15:02:44
I'll pay any amount of money to piss MiTo off.Do like me and spend money on useful stuff, I used it for icons.
You could spend on rendering classes instead, so you could offer more of your ****ty rendering services in exchange of free sets like you did with Carbon.
But the community appreciate you charging to "help" others, so who am I to say otherwise.
No amount of money in this world will be enoug to piss me off, I'm so zen.
And it pays off, since I'm getting my own keycap funded by GeekHack!
:thumb:
EDIT: People are free to do whatever they want with their skills, it was a mistake to bring this up.
*rolls on the floor* Dis good time.
edit (http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofl.gif)
Post by: nickheller on Tue, 19 January 2016, 15:04:18
Post by: romevi on Tue, 19 January 2016, 15:08:36
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gVVjiBa.png)
SAY NO MORE FAM
Caliente.
Post by: whmeltonjr on Tue, 19 January 2016, 15:09:46
Post by: romevi on Tue, 19 January 2016, 15:11:46
I'm in
twhs
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 15:41:26
1-1-2-3-4-4 SA profile as opposed to w/e the original was (3-1-2-3-4-4 or something?)
BBJ and GEW as opposed to BBQ and GEW like the original
Standard SA font unless there's one available for use people would prefer
1 set that has everything because I'm too ****ing lazy to split it up (no novelties just crap that people actually use)
Running through PMK because I don't see why everyone has a problem going through them since THEY'RE THE ONES MAKING THE CAPS
Calling this FuLSE because it's faux pulse replica
or do u guys want a 1:1 pulse replica ? I dont give a **** about mito at this point what set do you guys want
Post by: Bromono on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:14:19
I say you partner with bunny and make a high quality PuLSE if anything.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:15:19
I just dont like the caps =(
I say you partner with bunny and make a high quality PuLSE if anything.
doubt he has time. I don't like the caps either
Post by: xondat on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:26:07
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gVVjiBa.png)
SAY NO MORE FAM
Thanks so we're doing 1 big pack with no bull****?
1 big ****ing pack, that includes tsagnangngnag and iso for maximum salt
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:34:04
I might just do the Flatline idea later with BBQ and some of the noted novelties, then.
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:34:17
OK WE HAVE GENERAL CONSENSUS NO COMPLAINTS?
1-1-2-3-4-4 SA profile as opposed to w/e the original was (3-1-2-3-4-4 or something?)
BBJ and GEW as opposed to BBQ and GEW like the original
Standard SA font unless there's one available for use people would prefer
1 set that has everything because I'm too ****ing lazy to split it up (no novelties just crap that people actually use)
Running through PMK because I don't see why everyone has a problem going through them since THEY'RE THE ONES MAKING THE CAPS
Calling this FuLSE because it's faux pulse replica
or do u guys want a 1:1 pulse replica ? I dont give a **** about mito at this point what set do you guys want
In case anyone doesn't know what the colors are, or are too lazy here's the link to the colors.
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/abscolors.php
Anyways,I like BBJ it looks like a better shade of cyan than BBQ.
What is "true" black on the color chips? I thought NN was a more pure black. :confused:
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:45:02
More petty, vindictive, juvenile ****-waving and manufactured drama. Thanks guys, this does a lot to grow the keyboard community. :thumb:
(http://i.imgur.com/SV1Rpez.gif)
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:47:54
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:50:30
Post by: Bucky on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:54:11
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:54:45
(http://imgur.com/ALQJHtn.jpg)
People seemed pretty happy with that setup.
And yes, BBJ/NN
Post by: absyrd on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:55:18
Post by: livingspeedbump on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:55:45
OK WE HAVE GENERAL CONSENSUS NO COMPLAINTS?
damn you, why can i haz no complaints for my sets? :p
Post by: livingspeedbump on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:57:19
If we're doing one big ****ing pack, no bull****, can I make a suggestion?Show Image(http://imgur.com/ALQJHtn.jpg)
People seemed pretty happy with that setup.
And yes, BBJ/NN
I won't lie, in a way I like the child deal thing, mainly because my ErgoDox and Plancks can get some lovin. But the Hack'd single set was a very expertly crafted one indeed. Having a R2 Backspace instead of "\" would be nice though
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:57:41
#BBJ
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:02:03
GEW is some dark ass grey do people want black?
Like I mentioned earlier I would really like a Cyan/Black setup. It allows for people to be able to combine with other previously owned sets.
Hopefully people are being serious about this. :cool:
My votes would be BBJ(Cyan) with NN?(Black) :thumb:
Post by: demik on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:02:56
never seen a ***** bigger than demik before in my life but now I have
dafuq
Post by: thesiscamper on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:23:55
I think this is closer to switchnollie's Keyboard & Co. than PuLSE.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gVVjiBa.png)
SAY NO MORE FAM
Caliente.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:25:12
I think this is closer to switchnollie's Keyboard & Co. than PuLSE.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gVVjiBa.png)
SAY NO MORE FAM
Caliente.
Yeah, that blue has a BFQ look to it.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:33:56
BBJ/NN then?
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:41:22
I'm in the process of getting mock ups chill fam
BBJ/NN then?
Yes! :thumb:
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:44:45
I'm in the process of getting mock ups chill fam
BBJ/NN then?
No problems with that combo. It seems like the combo a lot of people were hoping for originally.
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:50:03
I'm in the process of getting mock ups chill fam
BBJ/NN then?
Yes! :thumb:
Seconded. :thumb:
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:51:52
Post by: neverused on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:52:44
Also since we all know that he stole the pulse icon, can we do it upside-down or sideways? But get rid of the other retarded icons like that stupid ****ing megaphone on the shift or capslock whatever it was.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:53:40
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:54:33
I don't really want you guys to pay for a custom legend for a novelty key no one's gonna use...
a capslock key that said Twatio is something I'd use
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 19 January 2016, 17:55:42
I don't really want you guys to pay for a custom legend for a novelty key no one's gonna use...
Second.
Post by: xondat on Tue, 19 January 2016, 18:03:38
I don't really want you guys to pay for a custom legend for a novelty key no one's gonna use...
**** novelty. I feel like GH should be voted upon.
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 19 January 2016, 18:21:09
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 18:22:07
Starting it off with all the Hack'd keys. mock up this weekend!
Post by: digi on Tue, 19 January 2016, 18:23:07
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 19 January 2016, 18:25:35
OK WE HAVE GENERAL CONSENSUS NO COMPLAINTS?
1-1-2-3-4-4 SA profile as opposed to w/e the original was (3-1-2-3-4-4 or something?)
BBJ and GEW as opposed to BBQ and GEW like the original
Standard SA font unless there's one available for use people would prefer
1 set that has everything because I'm too ****ing lazy to split it up (no novelties just crap that people actually use)
Running through PMK because I don't see why everyone has a problem going through them since THEY'RE THE ONES MAKING THE CAPS
Calling this FuLSE because it's faux pulse replica
or do u guys want a 1:1 pulse replica ? I dont give a **** about mito at this point what set do you guys want
In case anyone doesn't know what the colors are, or are too lazy here's the link to the colors.
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/abscolors.php
Anyways,I like BBJ it looks like a better shade of cyan than BBQ.
What is "true" black on the color chips? I thought NN was a more pure black. :confused:
I agree with BBJ over BBQ, and NN is the best black. When BunnyLake did his GH keys, he did one with my choice, NN on GX, very difficult to see. But NN was darker.
Edit: With regard to the base kit and child kits. Would it be OK to do one full size base kit with the usual offerings fromm full size layout and down like the Hack'd set, and one child kit for Ergo Dox, Planck, JD40, WhiteFox, etc?
Post by: gadzkun on Tue, 19 January 2016, 19:37:24
Post by: GL1TCH3D on Tue, 19 January 2016, 19:43:22
Re use the logos but actually ask the guy that made them if you can use them.
Or according to OmIt if you can reproduce the exact same image yourself it's free to use right?
Otherwise if I'm not mistaken, the site he got them from already offers icons for commercial use at small fees.
You could probably find a very similar set of icons (along with the original stolen ones), pay for them, show the receipt to SP and you should be good to go.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 19:43:39
how about this homieShow Image(http://i68.tinypic.com/34zx4j8.jpg)
:p :p :p :p :p
want to run IC but im not good with making novelties (im really suck at editing) :))
It's a good mock up but not what we're looking for in terms of colors. I have it all planned out just waiting for mock ups I've got a great duo working on it (y)
Post by: gadzkun on Tue, 19 January 2016, 20:02:55
how about this homieShow Image(http://i68.tinypic.com/34zx4j8.jpg)
:p :p :p :p :p
want to run IC but im not good with making novelties (im really suck at editing) :))
It's a good mock up but not what we're looking for in terms of colors. I have it all planned out just waiting for mock ups I've got a great duo working on it (y)
3D mockup? wow cant wait too see it :p.. i think someone gonna be pissed :)) ,,
Post by: livingspeedbump on Tue, 19 January 2016, 20:07:42
how about this homieShow Image(http://i68.tinypic.com/34zx4j8.jpg)
:p :p :p :p :p
want to run IC but im not good with making novelties (im really suck at editing) :))
It's a good mock up but not what we're looking for in terms of colors. I have it all planned out just waiting for mock ups I've got a great duo working on it (y)
eh its like a less good penumbra imo.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 19 January 2016, 20:08:48
Post by: gadzkun on Tue, 19 January 2016, 20:16:30
how about this homieShow Image(http://i68.tinypic.com/34zx4j8.jpg)
:p :p :p :p :p
want to run IC but im not good with making novelties (im really suck at editing) :))
It's a good mock up but not what we're looking for in terms of colors. I have it all planned out just waiting for mock ups I've got a great duo working on it (y)
eh its like a less good penumbra imo.
ouch my bad.. damn i dont know penumbra had white alphas.. i only knows penumbra use yellowish alphas.. :(
Nah not 3d too time consuming and ya'll know roughly what it's gonna look like (pulse)
can you show me how pulse looks like? i really dont know :p
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 19 January 2016, 20:23:04
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 19 January 2016, 20:24:56
If you use the Hack'd all-in-one kit, it includes JD40/JD45 support. :D
Thanks JD, didn't realize that. Didn't follow that set.
Post by: Jedi on Tue, 19 January 2016, 21:34:19
Post by: tigersharkdude on Tue, 19 January 2016, 21:43:10
**** YOU
Post by: Siegx on Wed, 20 January 2016, 01:20:36
Post by: Glenmael on Wed, 20 January 2016, 01:21:31
Post by: Den441 on Wed, 20 January 2016, 02:03:50
Post by: Bucky on Wed, 20 January 2016, 02:23:07
Post by: apolotary on Wed, 20 January 2016, 03:03:32
Signature plastic approved using the same colorway?
Per Melissa, colorways are open season and there is no protection on them.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qt7HXlC.jpg)
Soooo I don't want to rustle any jimmies here, but... Miami SA, anyone?
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 20 January 2016, 03:12:42
Miami GMK is the way brotherSignature plastic approved using the same colorway?
Per Melissa, colorways are open season and there is no protection on them.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qt7HXlC.jpg)
Soooo I don't want to rustle any jimmies here, but... Miami SA, anyone?
Post by: apolotary on Wed, 20 January 2016, 03:19:43
Miami GMK is the way brotherSignature plastic approved using the same colorway?
Per Melissa, colorways are open season and there is no protection on them.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qt7HXlC.jpg)
Soooo I don't want to rustle any jimmies here, but... Miami SA, anyone?
Word. + faded mods a la CMYW
Post by: xondat on Wed, 20 January 2016, 03:26:36
Post by: BunnyLake on Wed, 20 January 2016, 05:38:44
I feel like a lot more IC will be popping up such as SA everything now that colorways are free to use.
colorways have always been free to use, its just courtesy to ask permission from the original creator
i totally agree that a colorway doesnt belong to someone, but its about a matter or respect for other peoples creations or work
i will clarify my statement however by stating that respect is a 2 way street, and i am in no way suggesting that i disagree with this particular thread
Post by: xondat on Wed, 20 January 2016, 05:47:42
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 20 January 2016, 06:40:04
Respect was thrown out the window a LONG time ago so this is fun :p
His thread is fun, because someone chose to be disrespectful, and will therefore receive the same in kind.
However, this isn't anarchy just because we have a little fun. Respect yourself. Earn the respect of others. Listen more than you speak, and you will learn.
This has been life lessons with JD.
Post by: zaarx on Wed, 20 January 2016, 09:24:26
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 20 January 2016, 09:47:19
Unless one of you old school gb leaders have nothing better to do and want to help ship em yourself (hell I'll fly down and help sort :p) then pmk is just the easiest way to go since it's direct from the source.
Will be getting a quote after finalizing mock ups with my lovely volunteers.
Post by: Jedi on Wed, 20 January 2016, 10:21:20
Unless one of you old school gb leaders have nothing better to do and want to help ship em yourself (hell I'll fly down and help sort :p) then pmk is just the easiest way to go since it's direct from the source.
You wouldn't have a reason to wanna come out to Vegas this summer would you? :p
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 20 January 2016, 11:22:51
I will be cutting down some of the less essential keys to cut down on price. I know this might be deal breaking for some of you guys but having all in 1 sets, especially run through pmk with their gb premium, is very costly and I feel that having an appealing price point would get more sets sold than trying to cater to everyone's crazy boards.
Unless one of you old school gb leaders have nothing better to do and want to help ship em yourself (hell I'll fly down and help sort :p) then pmk is just the easiest way to go since it's direct from the source.
Will be getting a quote after finalizing mock ups with my lovely volunteers.
long as it has ISO i can't see too many complaining
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 20 January 2016, 11:29:34
Post by: GL1TCH3D on Wed, 20 January 2016, 11:41:10
Going to explore options with UPS for the future instead of Canada Post
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 20 January 2016, 12:26:30
I feel like a lot more IC will be popping up such as SA everything now that colorways are free to use.
It's really going to depend on the community and original designer. We've seen many a set with good design go nowhere when the OP is no longer active. Those could certainly get taken up. We then have the ones produced but with high demand for a rerun. That's a different situation, particularly if the original designer is still active. I do hope that this gives existing designers encouragement to let others rerun colorways if they're busy with other endeavors or life situations.
Post by: kiwi99 on Wed, 20 January 2016, 12:29:57
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 20 January 2016, 12:34:17
What about a child deal for a 1u oMiT key to replace Delete?
A child deal for an oMiT delete and backspace?
Post by: GL1TCH3D on Wed, 20 January 2016, 12:35:33
What about a child deal for a 1u oMiT key to replace Delete?
Would be more successful than the set
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 20 January 2016, 12:35:55
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Wed, 20 January 2016, 12:43:17
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 20 January 2016, 12:43:52
I feel like a lot more IC will be popping up such as SA everything now that colorways are free to use.
colorways have always been free to use, its just courtesy to ask permission from the original creator
i totally agree that a colorway doesnt belong to someone, but its about a matter or respect for other peoples creations or work
i will clarify my statement however by stating that respect is a 2 way street, and i am in no way suggesting that i disagree with this particular thread
I do agree that respect must go both way. If you can't dish it out, don't expect it in return.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 20 January 2016, 13:28:39
Depending on the quantity of sets, I would be willing to entertain the idea of shipping sets out. I am/was prepared to ship GMK Beige, and wouldn't mind taking this on. However, I'd prefer to limit it to ~75 sets if possible. Bonus points if there is only one kit option and no sorting.
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 20 January 2016, 13:33:55
Trim the set all you need as long as it has the basic TKL + tsangan + numpad, IMO.
Depending on the quantity of sets, I would be willing to entertain the idea of shipping sets out. I am/was prepared to ship GMK Beige, and wouldn't mind taking this on. However, I'd prefer to limit it to ~75 sets if possible. Bonus points if there is only one kit option and no sorting.
I don't understand. Why not run it through PMK? No hassle with sorting, potentially lower prices (since the MOQ would be easier to hit), no maximum order quantity (there may very well be interest for more than 75 sets), and more child kit feasibility.
Post by: xondat on Wed, 20 January 2016, 13:49:50
What about a child deal for a 1u oMiT key to replace Delete?
Would be more successful than the set
Lmao true
How come people are saying they can help with shipping? Is it cheaper to mass ship to a region then distribute them like that? If so, then I'm sure some UK guys can help for EU orders.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 20 January 2016, 13:55:15
Because this.Trim the set all you need as long as it has the basic TKL + tsangan + numpad, IMO.
Depending on the quantity of sets, I would be willing to entertain the idea of shipping sets out. I am/was prepared to ship GMK Beige, and wouldn't mind taking this on. However, I'd prefer to limit it to ~75 sets if possible. Bonus points if there is only one kit option and no sorting.
I don't understand. Why not run it through PMK?
having all in 1 sets, especially run through pmk with their gb premium, is very costly and I feel that having an appealing price point would get more sets sold than trying to cater to everyone's crazy boards.
I don't understand. Why not run it through PMK? No hassle with sorting, potentially lower prices (since the MOQ would be easier to hit), no maximum order quantity (there may very well be interest for more than 75 sets), and more child kit feasibility.But you are correct, there are plenty of perks to PMK.
Sifo/we can choose, I'm just throwing the option out there. :thumb:
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 20 January 2016, 14:28:38
Post by: digi on Wed, 20 January 2016, 14:45:01
Post by: riotonthebay on Wed, 20 January 2016, 14:46:22
Will this set be rare?
One run only
I don't even like it
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 20 January 2016, 14:46:31
Will this set be rare?
I'm only running it once and then no one ever again can reproduce it.
Post by: digi on Wed, 20 January 2016, 14:47:58
Will this set be rare?
I'm only running it once and then no one ever again can reproduce it.
Sounds good.
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 20 January 2016, 14:50:22
Will this set be rare?
I'm only running it once and then no one ever again can reproduce it.
I'm going to rerun it in a year and call it FuLSE+. I'll change the shades to BBQ and GEW, so as to not completely copy you though.
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 20 January 2016, 14:52:37
Will this set be rare?
I'm only running it once and then no one ever again can reproduce it.
I'm going to rerun it in a year and call it FuLSE+. I'll change the shades to BBQ and GEW, so as to not completely copy you though.
sorry but BBQ and GEW belong to MiTo and you cannot use that colorway.
Who has the legend for the oMiT key that I can present to SP?
Post by: xondat on Wed, 20 January 2016, 15:02:38
Will this set be rare?
I'm only running it once and then no one ever again can reproduce it.
Post a R2 IC later after all the banter is over
Post by: demik on Wed, 20 January 2016, 15:05:05
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 20 January 2016, 15:08:14
I HOPE THIS FAILS MORE THAN CANADIAN MONOPOLY MONEY.
no threadcrap pls
Post by: harlw on Wed, 20 January 2016, 15:29:02
I HOPE THIS FAILS MORE THAN CANADIAN MONOPOLY MONEY.
We don't allow opinions in this thread sir.
Post by: GL1TCH3D on Wed, 20 January 2016, 16:14:31
I HOPE THIS FAILS MORE THAN CANADIAN MONOPOLY MONEY.
What do you mean?
Americans still pay hundreds on pieces of plastic :p
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 20 January 2016, 16:28:33
I HOPE THIS FAILS MORE THAN CANADIAN MONOPOLY MONEY.BM
Post by: skaloola on Wed, 20 January 2016, 16:58:55
Post by: demik on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:25:00
I HOPE THIS FAILS MORE THAN CANADIAN MONOPOLY MONEY.
no threadcrap pls
Can you really thread crap a crap thread?
Post by: beehatch on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:25:23
should match the original keysets colors imo
Fake Pulse = FuLSE
ain't gotta match
Post by: demik on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:27:24
Post by: HekusuTekusu on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:27:29
It's an improvement imo. Considering we're getting rid of the novelties.should match the original keysets colors imo
Fake Pulse = FuLSE
ain't gotta match
Post by: romevi on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:29:54
GEEKHACK YOURE BETTER THAN THIS. STOP ACTING LIKE PETTY ****S OVER ONE PERSON. WORRY ABOUT ****ING GROUP BUYS THAT ARENT EVEN DONE YET.
Truly, I've never seen so many people act so immature in one single thread.
Well, maybe 4chan, but that's anonymous.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:35:43
GEEKHACK YOURE BETTER THAN THIS. STOP ACTING LIKE PETTY ****S OVER ONE PERSON. WORRY ABOUT ****ING GROUP BUYS THAT ARENT EVEN DONE YET.
Truly, I've never seen so many people act so immature in one single thread.
Well, maybe 4chan, but that's anonymous.
While I agree that the initial creation of this IC was childish and petty (my own contributions included, and I apologize for that), I do think that it's a worthy set to run so why not move forward? :3
Post by: demik on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:48:21
But, you know, we are better than Reddit!GEEKHACK YOURE BETTER THAN THIS. STOP ACTING LIKE PETTY ****S OVER ONE PERSON. WORRY ABOUT ****ING GROUP BUYS THAT ARENT EVEN DONE YET.
Truly, I've never seen so many people act so immature in one single thread.
Well, maybe 4chan, but that's anonymous.
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:54:46
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:55:50
Will this set work on MX blue switchs??Only genuine ones.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:56:04
Will this set work on MX blue switchs??
Browns and Reds only.
Post by: Jedi on Wed, 20 January 2016, 19:39:27
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 20 January 2016, 19:53:14
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 20 January 2016, 20:02:32
Post by: f1xedgear on Wed, 20 January 2016, 22:24:41
I love this thread so much
I love GeekHack so much
I don't know who owns geekhack. But holy **** is geekhack owning mito.
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 20 January 2016, 22:41:15
like I'm actually going to make it happen I hope you guys understand. If not enough people join then fine I failed but I will launch the gb
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 20 January 2016, 22:45:23
stop ****ting on my 100% serious group buy pls ...
like I'm actually going to make it happen I hope you guys understand. If not enough people join then fine I failed but I will launch the gb
Once you get renders, people will probably be a bit more serious :)
A bit hard to take an IC for a set seriously when there arent actually renders or specific colors of any sort :p
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 20 January 2016, 22:47:48
BBJ/NN are the colors! YOU GUYS DON'T MEMORIZE THE SP ABS SWATCHES?????
Post by: LXXXIX on Wed, 20 January 2016, 23:14:42
I've got the best in the business working on them T_TI included it in one of my posts on the first page.
BBJ/NN are the colors! YOU GUYS DON'T MEMORIZE THE SP ABS SWATCHES?????
I for one want to see this set happen. Drama aside this will be one legit set to own. The back story is just the cherry on top IMO.
Post by: Jedi on Wed, 20 January 2016, 23:48:01
You just be you boo, but a little novelty sprinkle from the oMiT side would be a'ight wit all of us ya dig?
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 21 January 2016, 01:36:42
Respect yourself. Earn the respect of others. Listen more than you speak, and you will learn.
Truly well said sir, if only the whole world followed this, sigh.
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 21 January 2016, 08:34:50
Post by: LXXXIX on Thu, 21 January 2016, 08:36:13
I've decided to omit the omit key to just take this set a little more seriously. No need to be petty and no need to give the guy the attention he so desperately seeks.
My thoughts exactly.
Keep this straight forward and make a black/cyan set the right way. :thumb:
Post by: mobbo on Thu, 21 January 2016, 08:37:04
I've decided to omit the omit key to just take this set a little more seriously. No need to be petty and no need to give the guy the attention he so desperately seeks.
Thank you.
Post by: Jedi on Thu, 21 January 2016, 09:10:10
Post by: Lepidus on Thu, 21 January 2016, 09:11:44
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 21 January 2016, 09:14:34
I've decided to omit the omit key to just take this set a little more seriously. No need to be petty and no need to give the guy the attention he so desperately seeks.
I actually liked the way the "omit" key sounds. The other synonyms to "delete" just don't sound as good. Well, maybe "annul"?
Post by: tangkims on Thu, 21 January 2016, 10:20:48
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 21 January 2016, 10:39:53
I don't even care about key caps no more. I just come to watch the world burn.This is an interest check thread. I think you meant to post somewhere else.
Post by: tangkims on Thu, 21 January 2016, 10:46:03
I don't even care about key caps no more. I just come to watch the world burn.This is an interest check thread. I think you meant to post somewhere else.
I don't even care about key caps no more. I just come to watch the world burn.This is an interest check thread. I think you meant to post somewhere else.
Oh, you got me wrong. I'm still interested... not so much in the keycaps. But I'm definitely interested in the drama.
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 21 January 2016, 11:33:20
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 21 January 2016, 11:33:29
I don't even care about key caps no more. I just come to watch the world burn.This is an interest check thread. I think you meant to post somewhere else.I don't even care about key caps no more. I just come to watch the world burn.This is an interest check thread. I think you meant to post somewhere else.
Oh, you got me wrong. I'm still interested... not so much in the keycaps. But I'm definitely interested in the drama.
This thread is drama-free! Any drama was redirected elsewhere and deleted, I'm sure.
We just need to come up with a better name for the keyset now. FuLSE just doesn't sound right. Since it's black and blue, maybe call it "Momma Said Knock You Out" or something, Sifo. This keyset will be a knockout, for sure.
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 21 January 2016, 11:34:58
We just need to come up with a better name for the keyset now. FuLSE just doesn't sound right. Since it's black and blue, maybe call it "Momma Said Knock You Out" or something, Sifo. This keyset will be a knockout, for sure.
I like "Hearthrob", don't know why.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 21 January 2016, 11:36:07
I don't even care about key caps no more. I just come to watch the world burn.This is an interest check thread. I think you meant to post somewhere else.I don't even care about key caps no more. I just come to watch the world burn.This is an interest check thread. I think you meant to post somewhere else.
Oh, you got me wrong. I'm still interested... not so much in the keycaps. But I'm definitely interested in the drama.
This thread is drama-free! Any drama was redirected elsewhere and deleted, I'm sure.
We just need to come up with a better name for the keyset now. FuLSE just doesn't sound right. Since it's black and blue, maybe call it "Momma Said Knock You Out" or something, Sifo. This keyset will be a knockout, for sure.
Why not just KnockOut?
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 21 January 2016, 11:38:04
Why not just KnockOut?
Brilliant!
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 21 January 2016, 11:38:12
Post by: Bucky on Thu, 21 January 2016, 11:54:14
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 21 January 2016, 12:04:48
I still like the Flatline name.
Flatline is a name with no life to it. :(
Post by: demik on Thu, 21 January 2016, 12:10:18
Post by: romevi on Thu, 21 January 2016, 12:11:17
you guys decide the name ... I really don't care lol. "Cyan and Black" is fine with me.
ClockBlock
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 21 January 2016, 12:26:46
Rename it to cherry bruise if you're going for a black and blue theme. Since obviously some egos got bruised along the way.
ha
be better to just call it Pulse without any silly capital letters
Post by: Floody on Thu, 21 January 2016, 12:29:09
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 21 January 2016, 12:29:26
Can we just call it Sifo? After the man who probably cares the least about this set.
no
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 21 January 2016, 12:38:42
Or maybe "Hades"?
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/6/6a/Hercules-br-disneyscreencaps.com-635.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140909150025)
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 21 January 2016, 12:39:48
"The Corpse Set"
Or maybe "Hades"?Show Image(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/6/6a/Hercules-br-disneyscreencaps.com-635.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140909150025)
Ooh, both of those are good suggestions.
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 21 January 2016, 12:40:20
"The Corpse Set"
Or maybe "Hades"?Show Image(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/6/6a/Hercules-br-disneyscreencaps.com-635.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140909150025)
Ooh, both of those are good suggestions.
I'll second "Hades."
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 21 January 2016, 12:43:20
"The Corpse Set"
Or maybe "Hades"?Show Image(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/6/6a/Hercules-br-disneyscreencaps.com-635.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140909150025)
Ooh, both of those are good suggestions.
I'll second "Hades."
+1
Post by: xondat on Thu, 21 January 2016, 12:47:33
"The Corpse Set"
Or maybe "Hades"?Show Image(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/6/6a/Hercules-br-disneyscreencaps.com-635.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140909150025)
Ooh, both of those are good suggestions.
I'll second "Hades."
+1
+2?
Post by: tangkims on Thu, 21 January 2016, 13:07:52
Rename it to cherry bruise if you're going for a black and blue theme. Since obviously some egos got bruised along the way.
Rename it to cherry bruise if you're going for a black and blue theme. Since obviously some egos got bruised along the way.
I hope they name this set Butt Hurt. I'll buy one for sure.
Post by: onemegamanfan on Thu, 21 January 2016, 14:07:29
"The Corpse Set"
Or maybe "Hades"?
I like Hades
Post by: mobbo on Thu, 21 January 2016, 14:08:59
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Thu, 21 January 2016, 14:09:26
Assuming it's serious i think hades isn't a great name, sounds like something an edgy teen would want to buy.
I'm all for something joking, like butthurt or oMit
Post by: calvinhousecat on Thu, 21 January 2016, 14:09:40
make sure it includes the question mark
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 21 January 2016, 14:14:40
...something an edgy teen would want to buy.
Colorway Panic! At The Forum
Post by: xondat on Thu, 21 January 2016, 14:15:15
I put forward the name "Derezzed". Reference to something.
Post by: inanis on Thu, 21 January 2016, 14:16:52
I laughed! :))...something an edgy teen would want to buy.
Colorway Panic! At The Forum
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 21 January 2016, 14:22:51
I can't tell if this is a ****post or serious
This thread is serious. As much as I love a good joke, the thread would not have lasted this long in this subforum without being serious. :thumb: (possible exception being April Fool's Day)
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Thu, 21 January 2016, 14:28:35
I can't tell if this is a ****post or serious
This thread is serious.
In that case i'm interested, as long as it looks anywhere near as good as pulse
Post by: tangkims on Thu, 21 January 2016, 14:30:18
I can't tell if this is a ****post or serious
Assuming it's serious i think hades isn't a great name, sounds like something an edgy teen would want to buy.
I'm all for something joking, like butthurt or oMit
Can't wait for my butthurt to arrive in the mail!
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 21 January 2016, 14:33:45
Stop trolling.I can't tell if this is a ****post or serious
Assuming it's serious i think hades isn't a great name, sounds like something an edgy teen would want to buy.
I'm all for something joking, like butthurt or oMit
Can't wait for my butthurt to arrive in the mail!
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 21 January 2016, 14:34:48
I can't tell if this is a ****post or serious
This thread is serious.
In that case i'm interested, as long as it looks anywhere near as good as pulse
It'll look a little different, and won't have any novelty keys.
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 21 January 2016, 16:39:55
I still like the Flatline name.
Flatline is a name with no life to it. :(
That was the one problem I had with it when I proposed it originally. The joke was with the marketing on it - Flatline: It's What Happens When You Have No Pulse.
Since we're taking things a bit more seriously, perhaps we could switch. Say, Code Blue? Though honestly that would be an awesome name for a blue-only set.
Really, I love some of the ones people have come up with thus far.
Post by: digi on Thu, 21 January 2016, 16:41:00
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 21 January 2016, 16:43:56
Please this is a drama-free thread
Drama-free
GeekHack
K.
Post by: nosage on Fri, 22 January 2016, 08:16:08
This is 100% serious created from a ****post
I put forward the name "Derezzed". Reference to something.
+1 vote for Derezzed, comes from Tron, which uses the cyan and black colors.
Post by: xondat on Fri, 22 January 2016, 08:35:03
This is 100% serious created from a ****post
I put forward the name "Derezzed". Reference to something.
+1 vote for Derezzed, comes from Tron, which uses the cyan and black colors.
Glad someone noticed my comment ;D
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Fri, 22 January 2016, 09:29:32
This is 100% serious created from a ****post
I put forward the name "Derezzed". Reference to something.
+1 vote for Derezzed, comes from Tron, which uses the cyan and black colors.
I've always thought a tron themed set could be pretty great.
Post by: sitch on Fri, 22 January 2016, 09:56:00
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 22 January 2016, 10:00:33
I thought that guy is running a R2?
Doesn't matter; this is going to be much better.
Post by: LXXXIX on Fri, 22 January 2016, 10:03:01
Plus it's a different color scheme with a different profile and no ugly ass icons.I thought that guy is running a R2?
Doesn't matter; this is going to be much better.
Nobody should treat then the same since they have different objectives on cyan/black.
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Fri, 22 January 2016, 10:12:04
I thought that guy is running a R2?
Mito/L1qu1d also said Elementos was coming "sooner than you think", that godspeed was releasing soon in august, and that he's also working on an unannounced GMK set. I wouldn't take much he says at face value.
Post by: romevi on Fri, 22 January 2016, 10:15:12
Plus it's a different color scheme with a different profile and no ugly ass icons.I thought that guy is running a R2?
Doesn't matter; this is going to be much better.
Nobody should treat then the same since they have different objectives on cyan/black.
Is your avatar Toriyama?
Post by: lashiel on Fri, 22 January 2016, 10:26:34
I thought that guy is running a R2?
Mito/L1qu1d also said Elementos was coming "sooner than you think", that godspeed was releasing soon in august, and that he's also working on an unannounced GMK set. I wouldn't take much he says at face value.
I believe Elementos officially got cancelled, which is too bad, because I wanted that one. Godspeed not really my speed :/
Post by: terminallytrill on Fri, 22 January 2016, 10:38:04
Post by: LXXXIX on Fri, 22 January 2016, 10:53:25
Plus it's a different color scheme with a different profile and no ugly ass icons.I thought that guy is running a R2?
Doesn't matter; this is going to be much better.
Nobody should treat then the same since they have different objectives on cyan/black.
Is your avatar Toriyama?
;D
Post by: f1xedgear on Fri, 22 January 2016, 21:01:34
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 22 January 2016, 21:24:50
Better hurry up and get this going... (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/420tbt/slug/cz6w2ka)
Like I said there, Jukebox is coming back soon :p
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 22 January 2016, 21:26:04
Better hurry up and get this going... (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/420tbt/slug/cz6w2ka)
LOL @ LSB
Post by: LXXXIX on Fri, 22 January 2016, 21:30:45
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 22 January 2016, 22:16:27
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 22 January 2016, 22:30:09
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 22 January 2016, 22:35:50
Post by: xondat on Sat, 23 January 2016, 01:51:14
No one's said it should be called heartbeat yet. That's disappointing.
I feel like that's taking inspiration from Pulse though, it shouldn't sound like a ****ty fake one. This needs to not relate imo.
Post by: sitch on Sat, 23 January 2016, 07:19:37
I thought that guy is running a R2?
Doesn't matter; this is going to be much better.
Let's get it rolling then :p
Post by: skipped on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:41:54
Quote from: oMiT
Why?
Desirable keysets must be available for everyone.
PuLSE will keep running as long as you want it to.
This is a first move towards ending keyset elitism.
RIP my sides
Quote from: oMiT
first move towards ending keyset elitism
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:43:55
Post by: f1xedgear on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:44:14
He just announced on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/42bh8a/pulse_round_2_the_announcement/)OMFG... This guy... I don't even...Quote from: oMiTWhy?
Desirable keysets must be available for everyone.
PuLSE will keep running as long as you want it to.
This is a first move towards ending keyset elitism.
RIP my sidesQuote from: oMiTfirst move towards ending keyset elitism
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:46:29
Post by: f1xedgear on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:49:07
to be fair I doubt I was ever gonna have reddit support anyway vs the reddit hero himselfMeh, just let oMiT and his fanbois live in their delusional world. I would still buy this set over his on principal.
Post by: LXXXIX on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:50:05
He just announced on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/42bh8a/pulse_round_2_the_announcement/)Reddit for the most part will not even know the side of the story we've seen. Which I find it frustrating and petty. Rip will most likely chime in on the GH bashing and most of r/mechanicalkeyboards will just eat it all up.Quote from: oMiTWhy?
Desirable keysets must be available for everyone.
PuLSE will keep running as long as you want it to.
This is a first move towards ending keyset elitism.
RIP my sidesQuote from: oMiTfirst move towards ending keyset elitism
In the end I say **** it and we run it the right way with our people. No hate just a straight forward set. I want to see this whole project pan out from the drama it stemmed from, the profile, the color way, and hour honest it's meant to be.
I hope some of the redditers give him a second thought. I want this MOQ to hit. :)
Post by: radio_killah on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:50:34
Post by: asdfjkl36 on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:52:57
Keyset elitism...
Post by: lishi on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:54:27
Mito even sent me a PM saying
Quote
You're trying too hard mate, we don't give a **** about drama. We just like colored boards.
He doesn't give a **** about drama yet is probably the biggest drama queen on gh/reddit ok
Post by: neverused on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:56:27
Post by: skipped on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:57:18
This set should stand on its own. While I like that it will be a big middle finger in spirit toward MiTo, it is the colorway and lack of poorly executed icons that attracts me to this set. Imo this is what pulse should have looked like, none of the BS clutter and retarded symbols.
Yup, if this set is done right I'm sure it will still be successful
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:57:53
Post by: f1xedgear on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:58:04
Gotta love the downvotes for posting the truth about the backstory.Thanks for calling him out on his bull**** BTW. That was a pretty accurate summary of what went down.
Mito even sent me a PM sayingQuoteYou're trying too hard mate, we don't give a **** about drama. We just like colored boards.
He doesn't give a **** about drama yet is probably the biggest drama queen on gh/reddit ok
PuLSE R2: Now with less copyright infringement!
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:59:32
guys just chill it's all good :)
don't worry, be happy
Post by: Niomosy on Sat, 23 January 2016, 12:05:21
He just announced on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/42bh8a/pulse_round_2_the_announcement/)Reddit for the most part will not even know the side of the story we've seen. Which I find it frustrating and petty. Rip will most likely chime in on the GH bashing and most of r/mechanicalkeyboards will just eat it all up.Quote from: oMiTWhy?
Desirable keysets must be available for everyone.
PuLSE will keep running as long as you want it to.
This is a first move towards ending keyset elitism.
RIP my sidesQuote from: oMiTfirst move towards ending keyset elitism
In the end I say **** it and we run it the right way with our people. No hate just a straight forward set. I want to see this whole project pan out from the drama it stemmed from, the profile, the color way, and hour honest it's meant to be.
I hope some of the redditers give him a second thought. I want this MOQ to hit. :)
Reddit is aware as I've linked to both my original question that started all of this and to this IC within comments on /r/MK. Rip was even pleased to hear that colorways have no protection in a thread I posted there covering that topic. There really hasn't been a lot of GH bashing in that discussion. Rip was pretty mellow at least last I checked on the thread.
Post by: SJHL on Sat, 23 January 2016, 13:22:07
I'm interested. As long as it looks nice.
Post by: calvinhousecat on Sat, 23 January 2016, 13:25:27
The killiking blow for me is that you are essentially replicating two keysets that will never be produced again for the sake of making money; by taking a margin. You're charging our people for assembling and distributing something that's not even your craft. I'm sorry to say but you don't even displayed talent to convince us that such iniciative could be even acceptable.
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 23 January 2016, 13:27:04
The killiking blow for me is that you are essentially replicating two keysets that will never be produced again for the sake of making money; by taking a margin. You're charging our people for assembling and distributing something that's not even your craft. I'm sorry to say but you don't even displayed talent to convince us that such iniciative could be even acceptable.
And that's why we're running this GB the good old fashioned way.
There will be no profit here, just a couple of guys putting in some time and effort into the hobby we enjoy to produce something for the community. No cuts from PMK/MD, a no bull**** set.
Still open to name suggestions. I'm liking Cherry Bruise atm :P
Post by: calvinhousecat on Sat, 23 January 2016, 13:28:21
The killiking blow for me is that you are essentially replicating two keysets that will never be produced again for the sake of making money; by taking a margin. You're charging our people for assembling and distributing something that's not even your craft. I'm sorry to say but you don't even displayed talent to convince us that such iniciative could be even acceptable.
And that's why we're running this GB the good old fashioned way.
There will be no profit here, just a couple of guys putting in some time and effort into the hobby we enjoy to produce something for the community. No cuts from PMK/MD, a no bull**** set.
Still open to name suggestions. I'm liking Cherry Bruise atm :P
This is great honestly. I own the OG set but I can't wait to get my hands on this one. Especially if its going to have a more deeper blue for the modifiers.
Post by: LXXXIX on Sat, 23 January 2016, 13:43:13
The killiking blow for me is that you are essentially replicating two keysets that will never be produced again for the sake of making money; by taking a margin. You're charging our people for assembling and distributing something that's not even your craft. I'm sorry to say but you don't even displayed talent to convince us that such iniciative could be even acceptable.
And that's why we're running this GB the good old fashioned way.
There will be no profit here, just a couple of guys putting in some time and effort into the hobby we enjoy to produce something for the community. No cuts from PMK/MD, a no bull**** set.
Still open to name suggestions. I'm liking Cherry Bruise atm :P
This is great honestly. I own the OG set but I can't wait to get my hands on this one. Especially if its going to have a more deeper blue for the modifiers.
Plus it will be a darker black instead of a really dark grey.
Honestly I haven't seen any names that really stick out to me. :confused:
Post by: tronbeaver on Sat, 23 January 2016, 13:52:34
:p
Post by: fabian101 on Sat, 23 January 2016, 13:53:18
Post by: Jedi on Sat, 23 January 2016, 13:58:21
Cherry Bruise, love it
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 23 January 2016, 15:33:49
Post by: f1xedgear on Sat, 23 January 2016, 15:37:04
If anyone has a keycap in BBJ or ABS color swatches let me know, we're working on a surprise for everyone ;)Wait and sea...
Post by: xondat on Sat, 23 January 2016, 15:37:53
If anyone has a keycap in BBJ or ABS color swatches let me know, we're working on a surprise for everyone ;)
Is it a keyset by any chance?
Post by: beehatch on Sat, 23 January 2016, 15:38:01
Evil Villain, you will never win! - Hotel Transylvania
Cherry Bruise, love it
You can thank me for the name.
ALL ME PEOPLE
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 23 January 2016, 15:38:47
If anyone has a keycap in BBJ or ABS color swatches let me know, we're working on a surprise for everyone ;)
Is it a keyset by any chance?
wat
Post by: swimmingbird on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:17:54
His ego is so big that he actually jumped the shark and ran it himself rather than let this try and happen
You have my full support
Post by: demik on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:22:13
Post by: beehatch on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:22:45
Is it cherry bruise because it's gonna beat up on mito's gb?
correct bb
Post by: demik on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:24:38
Is it cherry bruise because it's gonna beat up on mito's gb?
correct bb
Pretty ****ing clever, 10/10 would use to name stuff again
Post by: joey on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:24:45
Post by: beehatch on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:25:29
I can't tell if this thread is a troll thread, or if it's actually going to happen :blank:
dude it's real and is going to happen I assure you
Post by: swimmingbird on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:25:35
I can't tell if this thread is a troll thread, or if it's actually going to happen :blank:
We need to make it happen
Post by: demik on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:32:38
I can't tell if this thread is a troll thread, or if it's actually going to happen :blank:
Until mito gets his lawyers on the case
Post by: LXXXIX on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:33:08
Black and Bruised
I'm using Novatouch stems so not really cherry. :P
What do ya'll think?
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:39:00
Bruise make it seem like the keyset got beat up. That's why Spamray and I suggested something like 'Knockout' earlier in the thread.
Post by: demik on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:44:44
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:45:08
Well it's a ****ty set so it should get beat up
1v1 me right now once and for all
Post by: beehatch on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:47:46
boom done
Post by: demik on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:50:04
My mother taught me not to hit women, the disabled or Canadians. You're all three.Well it's a ****ty set so it should get beat up
1v1 me right now once and for all
Post by: xondat on Sat, 23 January 2016, 16:57:08
My mother taught me not to hit women, the disabled or Canadians. You're all three.Well it's a ****ty set so it should get beat up
1v1 me right now once and for all
ruined
Post by: switchnollie on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:07:17
If anyone has a keycap in BBJ or ABS color swatches let me know, we're working on a surprise for everyone ;)
Bopper might be able to help you :-*
She has like all the colors.
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:09:30
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:15:27
Of course, without renders who knows, this set could be something entirely different.
Post by: SL89 on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:26:17
now the toothpaste is out of the tube and colorways and designs wont be under lock and key
the few designers, artisans, and groups who have fans or cliques of support will just flame the 'interlopers' until they cant anymore and vice versa
Post by: f1xedgear on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:26:50
The problem that I've seen coming out of this is that now people are already commenting on "no reason to wait, just make your own___[calm depths, penumbra,etc]___" and that is worrisome. Until this point, "laws," were never taken into consideration, it was just a a community law more or less to ask the designers for the "go ahead" but i feel like this may have opened up a can of worms.I for one would love calm depths to happen again. I've read that others have tried to contact Calm about reruns with no response, so perhaps that would actually be a good candidate for a reboot?
Of course, without renders who knows, this set could be something entirely different.
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:28:21
tbh idk who is more annoying, mito and his cadre or the anti-mito circlejerk
now the toothpaste is out of the tube and colorways and designs wont be under lock and key
the few designers, artisans, and groups who have fans or cliques of support will just flame the 'interlopers' until they cant anymore and vice versa
no anti-mito circlejerk here you guys have the wrong idea. I can't speak for the people purchasing this set but I'm just running it because people wanted it, and at the time of conception we were all under the impression that Pulse would not have a round 2. Of course mito backed out like 5 times, deleting his IC as soon as I said I'd cancel my buy, and then posting it again as soon as I decided to continue it.
Post by: SL89 on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:29:58
I for one would love calm depths to happen again. I've read that others have tried to contact Calm about reruns with no response, so perhaps that would actually be a good candidate for a reboot?
Who's to say he has any input over that sort of thing now, you don't need Calm to run the colors and tmk its not even like Calm Depths had any (or many) custom legends.
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:32:24
I'm simply running a set that people expressed interest in. At the time of this set's conception, it was "confirmed" that a similar one would never happen again. Now that I'm running this buy, other said set is happening again (what a coincidence).
Post by: SL89 on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:36:25
Post by: Michael on Sat, 23 January 2016, 18:22:00
Post by: Phirr on Sat, 23 January 2016, 18:35:37
Again, I'm not saying you Sifo or your intent. The toothpaste is out the tube, I'm sure we will see all the classics come back into circulation. Symbiosis and Round 6 have already proven that SP cares little who 'designed' any of this stuff so long as they get paid.
SL89, you know that Symbiosis and 5a/6 are both based off of the Space cadet keyboard, right? Both are derivative of a 30 year old keyboard.
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 23 January 2016, 18:39:17
Again, I'm not saying you Sifo or your intent. The toothpaste is out the tube, I'm sure we will see all the classics come back into circulation. Symbiosis and Round 6 have already proven that SP cares little who 'designed' any of this stuff so long as they get paid.
If you want to go that route, look at Apple. When was the last time they actually INVENTED anything. All they do is get tech from other people, put it in a pretty box, and market the hell out of it.
Post by: n__dles on Sat, 23 January 2016, 19:11:51
.., I'm sure we will see all the classics come back into circulation.If I read this right, you think it's a bad thing? If so, why?
Im all for 'designers' collecting royalties of each set sold if they chose. If a designer was collecting royalties I understand why they would want to have control over their design. However, I'm incapable of understanding why they would care if someone else runs a GB with their design if it didn't affect them financially. FWIW, I'd respect a designers wish in the latter case, but I can't see what differences it makes.
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 23 January 2016, 19:15:27
.., I'm sure we will see all the classics come back into circulation.If I read this right, you think it's a bad thing? If so, why?
Im all for 'designers' collecting royalties of each set sold if they chose. If a designer was collecting royalties I understand why they would want to have control over their design. However, I'm incapable of understanding why they would care if someone else runs a GB with their design if it didn't affect them financially. FWIW, I'd respect a designers wish in the latter case, but I can't see what differences it makes.
Problem is, you can't force royalties at least with colorways. Besides, with SP's terms and conditions agreement, the "designer" really has no rights to the colorway in any way, shape, or form. Now custom legends, that is a slightly different matter.
Post by: n__dles on Sat, 23 January 2016, 19:43:54
Problem is, you can't force royalties at least with colorways.I meant that in an abstract sense: I'm not opposed to IP, in keycaps, software, etc. and I understand the motive: financial gain. Basically, I'm not a hippy who thinks everything should be free. I shouldn't have used a concrete example, sorry for confusion.
My point was, I can't wrap my mind around giving your content away for free, but worrying how the users gets it. For example, if Bill designs a keyset without plans to profit from it, why does he care if Alice runs a GB (given that she attributes Bill as the creator)? That's not a snarky rhetorical question, I know people care, I'm trying to see it from their perspective.
Post by: Jedi on Sat, 23 January 2016, 19:43:58
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 23 January 2016, 20:18:36
Problem is, you can't force royalties at least with colorways.I meant that in an abstract sense: I'm not opposed to IP, in keycaps, software, etc. and I understand the motive: financial gain. Basically, I'm not a hippy who thinks everything should be free. I shouldn't have used a concrete example, sorry for confusion.
My point was, I can't wrap my mind around giving your content away for free, but worrying how the users gets it. For example, if Bill designs a keyset without plans to profit from it, why does he care if Alice runs a GB (given that she attributes Bill as the creator)? That's not a snarky rhetorical question, I know people care, I'm trying to see it from their perspective.
Gotcha, I understand your sentiment. I did a group buy for some single switch PCBs, the Enablers, and was approached by a site that is known here about them stocking it as a regular item and having it produced on their own. Honestly I could care less, they did approach me about doing that and I had just one request. I asked them to stay with US based fab shops. Other than that, I could care less about people running it. If I did care, I wouldn't have shared the design at OshPark for anyone to make.
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Sat, 23 January 2016, 20:20:49
Edit: Nice change in subject ;)
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 23 January 2016, 22:15:23
I REALLY hope to get some mock ups out to you guys soon. I have seen the preview and the people who volunteered to help do them do great work so bare with me :X
Post by: skipped on Sat, 23 January 2016, 22:25:37
Pls stop thread crap this is actually serious and the direction has changed.
I REALLY hope to get some mock ups out to you guys soon. I have seen the preview and the people who volunteered to help do them do great work so bare with me :X
Can't wait! I think the mockups will help people realize that this is serious
Post by: demik on Sat, 23 January 2016, 23:10:10
<3
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 07:10:04
(http://i.imgur.com/dEtDmDdh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8CEvScRh.jpg)
Still asleep so I'll update properly later including op. I'm sure you guys have seen the new bro reaper, he'll have the proper color chips soon to color match properly.
Just need a name, SP to get back to me about pricing and we're good to go.
Post by: SL89 on Sun, 24 January 2016, 07:15:19
SL89, you know that Symbiosis and 5a/6 are both based off of the Space cadet keyboard, right? Both are derivative of a 30 year old keyboard.
...And you know the unique legends (some of which SP didnt have on file) were made (and paid for) by 7bit from DT? The colorway, and the design predate all of them. But the SA molds for those legends were set up in preparation for Round 6.
Edit: out of deference for Sifo's project, i'll be on topic from here on out.
Sifo those renders look swell, did you decide on 312344 or 3333333 or 112344 or whatever yet?
Post by: FLFisherman on Sun, 24 January 2016, 07:30:10
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TuYfeKwh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dEtDmDdh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8CEvScRh.jpg)
Still asleep so I'll update properly later including op. I'm sure you guys have seen the new bro reaper, he'll have the proper color chips soon to color match properly.
Just need a name, SP to get back to me about pricing and we're good to go.
Looking very good. And it's really cool you're coordinating with Bro on this.
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 07:33:15
SL89, you know that Symbiosis and 5a/6 are both based off of the Space cadet keyboard, right? Both are derivative of a 30 year old keyboard.
...And you know the unique legends (some of which SP didnt have on file) were made (and paid for) by 7bit from DT? The colorway, and the design predate all of them. But the SA molds for those legends were set up in preparation for Round 6.
Edit: out of deference for Sifo's project, i'll be on topic from here on out.
Sifo those renders look swell, did you decide on 312344 or 3333333 or 112344 or whatever yet?
1-1-2-3-4-4 seemed to be most requested
Post by: TerryMathews on Sun, 24 January 2016, 07:48:35
Post by: UTEster750 on Sun, 24 January 2016, 07:50:25
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TuYfeKwh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dEtDmDdh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8CEvScRh.jpg)
Still asleep so I'll update properly later including op. I'm sure you guys have seen the new bro reaper, he'll have the proper color chips soon to color match properly.
Just need a name, SP to get back to me about pricing and we're good to go.
Much more interested about the set after seeing some renders!
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 24 January 2016, 08:19:15
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TuYfeKwh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dEtDmDdh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8CEvScRh.jpg)
Still asleep so I'll update properly later including op. I'm sure you guys have seen the new bro reaper, he'll have the proper color chips soon to color match properly.
Just need a name, SP to get back to me about pricing and we're good to go.
where are the photos of the totally original novelties?
**** mito
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Sun, 24 January 2016, 08:46:12
... the new bro reaper...
OMG yes! What a perfect accent to this set!
Post by: romevi on Sun, 24 January 2016, 08:50:23
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Sun, 24 January 2016, 09:27:30
Post by: dohbot on Sun, 24 January 2016, 10:09:02
Post by: Vittra on Sun, 24 January 2016, 10:11:38
Post by: braidn on Sun, 24 January 2016, 10:13:50
Post by: justify on Sun, 24 January 2016, 11:06:36
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 11:07:41
Post by: duckness on Sun, 24 January 2016, 11:08:55
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TuYfeKwh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dEtDmDdh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8CEvScRh.jpg)
Still asleep so I'll update properly later including op. I'm sure you guys have seen the new bro reaper, he'll have the proper color chips soon to color match properly.
Just need a name, SP to get back to me about pricing and we're good to go.
Why is it "WIN" key for 1u but "SUPER" key for 1.25u?
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 24 January 2016, 11:19:42
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 11:22:46
Did I see JD40 compatibility, or am I missing something?
Is there not? I'm not very familiar with all the different layouts we have now. I'll update the profiles so you can see but if I accidentally crossed out a key or two let me know.
Also I'll have the legends fixed for consistency, thank you for spotting that.
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 11:42:43
I will also add a row 2 1x backspace for jd40 and I think that covers that layout?
Post by: duckness on Sun, 24 January 2016, 11:48:57
I don't think super will fit on the 1x keysAhh right. I'm retarded :))
Post by: Ail on Sun, 24 January 2016, 11:52:44
New poster, read about Pulse2 on reddit and was really excited until I read all the drama. I can't bring myself to buy that set, but I am down for this one if it gets off the ground.
Cheers.
Post by: FLFisherman on Sun, 24 January 2016, 11:58:02
Hey everyone.
New poster, read about Pulse2 on reddit and was really excited until I read all the drama. I can't bring myself to buy that set, but I am down for this one if it gets off the ground.
Cheers.
Honestly, I think both sets are going to have to wait a little while because it seems as though SP is booked through on SA sets until April (according to this keycap status page (http://pimpmykeyboard.com/key-status/) on Pimp My Keyboard).
Post by: Ail on Sun, 24 January 2016, 12:01:27
Hey everyone.
New poster, read about Pulse2 on reddit and was really excited until I read all the drama. I can't bring myself to buy that set, but I am down for this one if it gets off the ground.
Cheers.
Honestly, I think both sets are going to have to wait a little while because it seems as though SP is booked through on SA sets until April (according to this keycap status page (http://pimpmykeyboard.com/key-status/) on Pimp My Keyboard).
That's good because I just spent about $500 on Group6 DA leftovers, Granite keys on Massdrop, Gem keys on Massdrop and a few varying portions of sets from PMK. I think I can wait. :))
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Sun, 24 January 2016, 12:19:04
Hey everyone.
New poster, read about Pulse2 on reddit and was really excited until I read all the drama. I can't bring myself to buy that set, but I am down for this one if it gets off the ground.
Cheers.
Honestly, I think both sets are going to have to wait a little while because it seems as though SP is booked through on SA sets until April (according to this keycap status page (http://pimpmykeyboard.com/key-status/) on Pimp My Keyboard).
Thats what makes me think the whole pulse R2 thing is so silly. He already wants to push another SA set at the same time, its not like this stuff is going to get made anytime soon.
Post by: Zapheo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 12:22:47
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TuYfeKwh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dEtDmDdh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8CEvScRh.jpg)
Still asleep so I'll update properly later including op. I'm sure you guys have seen the new bro reaper, he'll have the proper color chips soon to color match properly.
Just need a name, SP to get back to me about pricing and we're good to go.
Sweet mother... I'm so in.
Post by: alexjd99 on Sun, 24 January 2016, 12:31:33
And I'd be more than happy to give my money to someone who's not a complete thunder **** :))
Post by: LXXXIX on Sun, 24 January 2016, 12:37:31
Post by: sherryton on Sun, 24 January 2016, 13:40:29
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TuYfeKwh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dEtDmDdh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8CEvScRh.jpg)
Still asleep so I'll update properly later including op. I'm sure you guys have seen the new bro reaper, he'll have the proper color chips soon to color match properly.
Just need a name, SP to get back to me about pricing and we're good to go.
Looking good!
Post by: Hispes on Sun, 24 January 2016, 13:41:20
This has a good following already. I'm sure this will make it. :)
*wrings hands*
I'm going to play each side and buy both sets.
Dance, Puppets, dance! muah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 13:47:53
http://imgur.com/a/dLBqX
Post by: SJHL on Sun, 24 January 2016, 14:34:05
Guess I have to get my wallet ready again..
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 14:48:51
Also we are going with FLATLINE.
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 24 January 2016, 14:53:18
Awaiting quote and time slots from SP!Flatline sounds good m8
Also we are going with FLATLINE.
Post by: Glenmael on Sun, 24 January 2016, 14:55:18
Awaiting quote and time slots from SP!
Also we are going with FLATLINE.
Great name, in for a set :)
Post by: Lepidus on Sun, 24 January 2016, 15:02:53
Why are there two escapes tho? Also, F and J wih deep dish or nipples?
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 15:04:30
Nice name :D
Why are there two escapes tho? Also, F and J wih deep dish or nipples?
Probably dish since people like scoops but I'm not sure what the consensus is for SA profile.
The 2nd Escape is Row 2 for JD40 users :)
(http://i.imgur.com/MVEWdIh.jpg)
This is how the rows are laid out.
Post by: dgneo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 15:05:18
Nice name :D
Why are there two escapes tho? Also, F and J wih deep dish or nipples?
Probably dish since people like scoops but I'm not sure what the consensus is for SA profile.
The 2nd Escape is Row 2 for JD40 users :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MVEWdIh.jpg)
This is how the rows are laid out.
Digging it a lot!
Scoops ftw
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 15:16:56
This SHOULD support UK Iso, tenkey, tsangan, as well as 1800 users. Split backspace will stay.
Post by: xondat on Sun, 24 January 2016, 15:18:14
Nice name :D
Why are there two escapes tho? Also, F and J wih deep dish or nipples?
Probably dish since people like scoops but I'm not sure what the consensus is for SA profile.
The 2nd Escape is Row 2 for JD40 users :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MVEWdIh.jpg)
This is how the rows are laid out.
tyvm for iso
Post by: E3E on Sun, 24 January 2016, 15:53:42
I don't think super will fit on the 1x keys and not sure if people want win on the 1.25x
I will also add a row 2 1x backspace for jd40 and I think that covers that layout?
Just wanted to chime in and say that SUPER does fit on 1u keys in SA profile. At least it does on Jukebox. I've got some 1u SUPER going on with my Octagon's bottom row. :D
(http://puu.sh/mDYpu/f574e7cafa.JPG)
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 15:57:51
Post by: user 18 on Sun, 24 January 2016, 16:41:19
Don't feel a need to add it for me, I think I'll be skipping this one regardless.
Post by: uJalled on Sun, 24 January 2016, 17:11:08
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 17:22:07
Looks pretty nice, but will there be an option to fit WKL boards?
yes there is a tsangan kit at the bottom
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 24 January 2016, 17:55:31
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 24 January 2016, 18:51:25
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 24 January 2016, 19:15:36
Please don't get rid of JD40 compatibility. With SP's schedule listed in a previous post, this probably won't ship until the Smallfry boards do. Don't want to go into that, but when those ship, there will be some people looking for JD40 compatible keys. i think this will look great on them.
You might want to keep the 2x 1.75u blank row 4 keys, as well. Preorders for the JD45 will be starting really soon now, and it uses the same key sizes for mods as the JD40. After that, JD40s will probably be stocked at a few places.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 24 January 2016, 19:40:50
Make some flatline novelty bro :p
Post by: LXXXIX on Sun, 24 January 2016, 19:48:15
Put this is your sig yall! ;D
Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.msg2015334#msg2015334][img]http://i.imgur.com/tuyOtAd.png[/img][/url](http://i.imgur.com/tuyOtAd.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.msg2015334#msg2015334)
PS: I hope you didn't mind I used the renders for this quick little image. :))
Post by: Jedi on Sun, 24 January 2016, 19:50:51
Post by: skycrimes on Sun, 24 January 2016, 19:51:17
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 24 January 2016, 19:54:20
Post by: LXXXIX on Sun, 24 January 2016, 19:59:22
what color blue is used on the pulse and whats the link to see the swatches?
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/abscolors.php
BBJ under Blues and NN under Blacks and Browns.
Post by: skycrimes on Sun, 24 January 2016, 20:00:47
what color blue is used on the pulse and whats the link to see the swatches?
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/abscolors.php
BBJ under Blues and NN under Blacks and Browns.
awesome thanks and bbj is the same blue that was on the pulse keyset and will now be on flatline?
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 24 January 2016, 20:01:37
Spread the word! I know it's nothing out of this world, but I think it's serious and straight to the point. Just a true blue GB, just the way we want it done. :thumb:
Put this is your sig yall! ;DCode:Show Image[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.msg2015334#msg2015334][img]http://i.imgur.com/tuyOtAd.png[/img][/url]
(http://i.imgur.com/tuyOtAd.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.msg2015334#msg2015334)
PS: I hope you didn't mind I used the renders for this quick little image. :))
nice artwork
reminds me of medical drama shows
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 20:03:41
what color blue is used on the pulse and whats the link to see the swatches?
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/abscolors.php
BBJ under Blues and NN under Blacks and Browns.
awesome thanks and bbj is the same blue that was on the pulse keyset and will now be on flatline?
pulse uses bbq I think, this one is bbj. jd I'll pm you about input on keys to add later tonight. thank you everyone for the support I'm blown away really
Post by: LXXXIX on Sun, 24 January 2016, 20:07:15
Spread the word! I know it's nothing out of this world, but I think it's serious and straight to the point. Just a true blue GB, just the way we want it done. :thumb:
Put this is your sig yall! ;DCode:Show Image[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.msg2015334#msg2015334][img]http://i.imgur.com/tuyOtAd.png[/img][/url]
(http://i.imgur.com/tuyOtAd.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.msg2015334#msg2015334)
PS: I hope you didn't mind I used the renders for this quick little image. :))
nice artwork
reminds me of medical drama shows
I was kind of going for that vibe.I'm glad it panned out.
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 24 January 2016, 20:08:56
Spread the word! I know it's nothing out of this world, but I think it's serious and straight to the point. Just a true blue GB, just the way we want it done. :thumb:
Put this is your sig yall! ;DCode:Show Image[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.msg2015334#msg2015334][img]http://i.imgur.com/tuyOtAd.png[/img][/url]
(http://i.imgur.com/tuyOtAd.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.msg2015334#msg2015334)
PS: I hope you didn't mind I used the renders for this quick little image. :))
nice artwork
reminds me of medical drama shows
I was kind of going for that vibe.I'm glad it panned out.
yep definitely got that childrens hospital vibe lol
Post by: LXXXIX on Sun, 24 January 2016, 20:12:51
Spread the word! I know it's nothing out of this world, but I think it's serious and straight to the point. Just a true blue GB, just the way we want it done. :thumb:
Put this is your sig yall! ;DCode:Show Image[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.msg2015334#msg2015334][img]http://i.imgur.com/tuyOtAd.png[/img][/url]
(http://i.imgur.com/tuyOtAd.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.msg2015334#msg2015334)
PS: I hope you didn't mind I used the renders for this quick little image. :))
nice artwork
reminds me of medical drama shows
I was kind of going for that vibe.I'm glad it panned out.
yep definitely got that childrens hospital vibe lol
I'm not sure if that's an insult to me or if we're poking fun at someone else. :confused:
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 24 January 2016, 20:15:01
Spread the word! I know it's nothing out of this world, but I think it's serious and straight to the point. Just a true blue GB, just the way we want it done. :thumb:
Put this is your sig yall! ;DCode:Show Image[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.msg2015334#msg2015334][img]http://i.imgur.com/tuyOtAd.png[/img][/url]
(http://i.imgur.com/tuyOtAd.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.msg2015334#msg2015334)
PS: I hope you didn't mind I used the renders for this quick little image. :))
nice artwork
reminds me of medical drama shows
I was kind of going for that vibe.I'm glad it panned out.
yep definitely got that childrens hospital vibe lol
I'm not sure if that's an insult to me or if we're poking fun at someone else. :confused:
no it was a compliment making a reference to a tv show
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Sun, 24 January 2016, 20:21:23
Nice name :D
Why are there two escapes tho? Also, F and J wih deep dish or nipples?
Probably dish since people like scoops but I'm not sure what the consensus is for SA profile.
The 2nd Escape is Row 2 for JD40 users :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MVEWdIh.jpg)
This is how the rows are laid out.
The classic question: are the all the shifts going to be row 4?
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 20:22:05
Nice name :D
Why are there two escapes tho? Also, F and J wih deep dish or nipples?
Probably dish since people like scoops but I'm not sure what the consensus is for SA profile.
The 2nd Escape is Row 2 for JD40 users :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MVEWdIh.jpg)
This is how the rows are laid out.
The classic question: are the all the shifts going to be row 4?
Yes with the new mold.
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Sun, 24 January 2016, 20:23:39
Nice name :D
Why are there two escapes tho? Also, F and J wih deep dish or nipples?
Probably dish since people like scoops but I'm not sure what the consensus is for SA profile.
The 2nd Escape is Row 2 for JD40 users :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MVEWdIh.jpg)
This is how the rows are laid out.
The classic question: are the all the shifts going to be row 4?
Yes with the new mold.
Awesome, I just needed that verification before I start to generate funds for this! :thumb:
Post by: radio_killah on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:20:01
Renders look great and so do the keys included.
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:21:43
How much longer until you know the exact price? Do we have an approximate price already?
Renders look great and so do the keys included.
Hack'd By Geeks was $120, so my guess would be close to that, depending on home many more/fewer keys Sifo goes for.
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:23:33
Check out the sweet new banner btw in the OP :)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/3W3w1T112M3B1t0e1i0n/Image%202016-01-24%20at%2010.00.22%20PM.png?v=961af3d8)
Signature one here, although feel free to use LXXXIX's as well as he did a great job.
Post by: fabian101 on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:26:48
I like that it was included in Hack'd By Geeks.
Post by: radio_killah on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:27:15
We're looking to get this under $100 for each set. We will be buying up a certain amount of sets to help reach MOQ faster. The GB will only be open for maybe 2 weeks before closing, and it will start ASAP, maybe no later than the start of February depending on how fast SP can work with me.
Check out the sweet new banner btw in the OP :)Show Image(https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/3W3w1T112M3B1t0e1i0n/Image%202016-01-24%20at%2010.00.22%20PM.png?v=961af3d8)
Signature one here, although feel free to use LXXXIX's as well as he did a great job.
Sweet baby jesus. :-*
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:28:39
We're looking to get this under $100 for each set. We will be buying up a certain amount of sets to help reach MOQ faster. The GB will only be open for maybe 2 weeks before closing, and it will start ASAP, maybe no later than the start of February depending on how fast SP can work with me.
Check out the sweet new banner btw in the OP :)Show Image(https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/3W3w1T112M3B1t0e1i0n/Image%202016-01-24%20at%2010.00.22%20PM.png?v=961af3d8)
Signature one here, although feel free to use LXXXIX's as well as he did a great job.
sifo don't **** around when it comes to IC>GB
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:29:13
Post by: LXXXIX on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:29:54
We're looking to get this under $100 for each set. We will be buying up a certain amount of sets to help reach MOQ faster. The GB will only be open for maybe 2 weeks before closing, and it will start ASAP, maybe no later than the start of February depending on how fast SP can work with me.I was probably l originally going to use a pulse but... Anyways this is way better than mine. :(
Check out the sweet new banner btw in the OP :)Show Image(https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/3W3w1T112M3B1t0e1i0n/Image%202016-01-24%20at%2010.00.22%20PM.png?v=961af3d8)
Signature one here, although feel free to use LXXXIX's as well as he did a great job.
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:30:18
We're looking to get this under $100 for each set. We will be buying up a certain amount of sets to help reach MOQ faster. The GB will only be open for maybe 2 weeks before closing, and it will start ASAP, maybe no later than the start of February depending on how fast SP can work with me.
Check out the sweet new banner btw in the OP :)Show Image(https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/3W3w1T112M3B1t0e1i0n/Image%202016-01-24%20at%2010.00.22%20PM.png?v=961af3d8)
Signature one here, although feel free to use LXXXIX's as well as he did a great job.
This is perfect!
If you're going to do any custom legends at all, may I suggest doing a FLATLINE key for either backspace or enter. Would really add a nice touch to the whole set.
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:32:40
And here I was hoping this would be open for a bit longer given SPs current schedule with SA caps.Well, the quicker we get orders in, the earlier in the queue we get. If they are backed up through April, and you wait until April to place the order, they will be backed up to July at that point.
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:34:06
We're looking to get this under $100 for each set. We will be buying up a certain amount of sets to help reach MOQ faster. The GB will only be open for maybe 2 weeks before closing, and it will start ASAP, maybe no later than the start of February depending on how fast SP can work with me.
Check out the sweet new banner btw in the OP :)Show Image(https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/3W3w1T112M3B1t0e1i0n/Image%202016-01-24%20at%2010.00.22%20PM.png?v=961af3d8)
Signature one here, although feel free to use LXXXIX's as well as he did a great job.
This is perfect!
If you're going to do any custom legends at all, may I suggest doing a FLATLINE key for either backspace or enter. Would really add a nice touch to the whole set.
Double shot flat line legend for spacebar.
And here I was hoping this would be open for a bit longer given SPs current schedule with SA caps.Well, the quicker we get orders in, the earlier in the queue we get. If they are backed up through April, and you wait until April to place the order, they will be backed up to July at that point.
True. Will do everything in my power to pick up this set. Really like the colors. Would look great with blue CCFL under the desk shining on the keyboard tray with a Ti smallfry board.
Post by: sherryton on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:38:30
Post by: FrostyToast on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:42:17
Post by: mun2912 on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:46:29
Post by: Den441 on Sun, 24 January 2016, 22:49:05
Post by: Atredl on Sun, 24 January 2016, 23:10:06
I like blue, like a lot. I'm just VERY picky with the shade :p
Post by: Elrick on Sun, 24 January 2016, 23:25:10
So Sifo old skunk, when are you going to release this onto MassDrop?
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 24 January 2016, 23:30:48
Not Bad at all.
So Sifo old skunk, when are you going to release this onto MassDrop?
I'm not :P
Post by: whmeltonjr on Sun, 24 January 2016, 23:37:15
We're looking to get this under $100 for each set. We will be buying up a certain amount of sets to help reach MOQ faster. The GB will only be open for maybe 2 weeks before closing, and it will start ASAP, maybe no later than the start of February depending on how fast SP can work with me.
Check out the sweet new banner btw in the OP :)Show Image(https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/3W3w1T112M3B1t0e1i0n/Image%202016-01-24%20at%2010.00.22%20PM.png?v=961af3d8)
Signature one here, although feel free to use LXXXIX's as well as he did a great job.
Under $100 with all of those caps? Shut up and take my money.
Post by: SixtyLife on Sun, 24 January 2016, 23:38:30
Post by: ccarlitos2 on Mon, 25 January 2016, 00:18:48
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 25 January 2016, 01:11:10
Awaiting quote and time slots from SP!
Also we are going with FLATLINE.
Heh, I didn't think you guys would actually go with that given the obvious ties via parody to PuLSE but it's a solid choice.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 01:13:34
Post by: Liocer on Mon, 25 January 2016, 02:53:20
Post by: LXXXIX on Mon, 25 January 2016, 06:00:34
I'm not very creative and honestly the name of the set doesn't matter too much to me. It doesn't exactly need an identity, it's just cyan and black. If I had it my way I'd call it the Hatsune Miku set ;)But she's more green than cyan.
Post by: FranksNewLiver on Mon, 25 January 2016, 06:50:32
Post by: tangkims on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:09:24
We're looking to get this under $100 for each set. We will be buying up a certain amount of sets to help reach MOQ faster. The GB will only be open for maybe 2 weeks before closing, and it will start ASAP, maybe no later than the start of February depending on how fast SP can work with me.
Check out the sweet new banner btw in the OP :)Show Image(https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/3W3w1T112M3B1t0e1i0n/Image%202016-01-24%20at%2010.00.22%20PM.png?v=961af3d8)
Signature one here, although feel free to use LXXXIX's as well as he did a great job.
Wow.. if this is the price for real... i don't see how PuLse could compete. I'm down for a set
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:09:59
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:13:36
Could we consider doing a hyper-simple, 87-key base set, and an all-the-extras set that would bundle numpad, tsangan, alt mods, 40% support, etc.?
Post by: tangkims on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:14:53
I'm waiting for the initial quote from SP. As you can imagine I'm getting a lot of requests for functionality support for other layouts and the more I add it will jack up the price for everyone which I don't wanna do.
Since you really wanna stick it to MiTo you should run this the same time as the PuLse and see what happens. You're going to be overwhelmed with the amount of orders since 1. Everyone will probably get their sets much sooner and 2. Price is going to be much cheaper than PuLse
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:16:29
I understand the desire for a 1-kit simple buy, but it seems to me that there are two camps here, those that want to use whatever layout they choose, and another that just wants a simple, affordable set.
Could we consider doing a hyper-simple, 87-key base set, and an all-the-extras set that would bundle numpad, tsangan, alt mods, 40% support, etc.?
Considering this as well but then it makes the additional support kits much less affordable and it's a hefty amount of keys. It seems like everyone has some weird ass layout nowadays anyway. I think more so it would make more sense to keep the jd40/45 kits separate with some additional kit support for other weird kits, since there's a lot more use for tsangan and Tenkey and iso.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:17:27
I'm waiting for the initial quote from SP. As you can imagine I'm getting a lot of requests for functionality support for other layouts and the more I add it will jack up the price for everyone which I don't wanna do.
Since you really wanna stick it to MiTo you should run this the same time as the PuLse and see what happens. You're going to be overwhelmed with the amount of orders since 1. Everyone will probably get their sets much sooner and 2. Price is going to be much cheaper than PuLse
I already have plans to have this up before pulse so long as SP works with me. SP however is making direct profit from pulse so we'll see what their business practice is like.
Post by: Floody on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:17:45
He's not trying to stick it to MiTo he's just trying to make a set that everyone wants now.I'm waiting for the initial quote from SP. As you can imagine I'm getting a lot of requests for functionality support for other layouts and the more I add it will jack up the price for everyone which I don't wanna do.
Since you really wanna stick it to MiTo you should run this the same time as the PuLse and see what happens. You're going to be overwhelmed with the amount of orders since 1. Everyone will probably get their sets much sooner and 2. Price is going to be much cheaper than PuLse
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:18:48
It would be great if we could unlock more caps as we get more orders.
Though people still need to realise that not all sets can be fulfilled.
I keep hearing people asking for international kits and HHKB kits which are functionally not that important at all; you can still build a board with the layout you want, just with different legends.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:19:18
He's not trying to stick it to MiTo he's just trying to make a set that everyone wants now.I'm waiting for the initial quote from SP. As you can imagine I'm getting a lot of requests for functionality support for other layouts and the more I add it will jack up the price for everyone which I don't wanna do.
Since you really wanna stick it to MiTo you should run this the same time as the PuLse and see what happens. You're going to be overwhelmed with the amount of orders since 1. Everyone will probably get their sets much sooner and 2. Price is going to be much cheaper than PuLse
not everyone, I can assure you that I don't want it ;)
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:21:02
What about stretch goals for kits?
It would be great if we could unlock more caps as we get more orders.
Though people still need to realise that not all sets can be fulfilled.
I keep hearing people asking for international kits and HHKB kits which are functionally not that important at all; you can still build a board with the layout you want, just with different legends.
Yeah this is exactly what I'm thinking. I personally use caps lock as ctrl but I'm considering cutting out those keys simply because you can still use the caps locks. 1.25x fn isn't a big deal either because even if it says menu you know it's your fn key. It just comes down to what the cost is. it's currently 8 am ish in West coast so I'm hoping SP gets back to me asap
Post by: tangkims on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:35:30
He's not trying to stick it to MiTo he's just trying to make a set that everyone wants now.I'm waiting for the initial quote from SP. As you can imagine I'm getting a lot of requests for functionality support for other layouts and the more I add it will jack up the price for everyone which I don't wanna do.
Since you really wanna stick it to MiTo you should run this the same time as the PuLse and see what happens. You're going to be overwhelmed with the amount of orders since 1. Everyone will probably get their sets much sooner and 2. Price is going to be much cheaper than PuLse
Fair enough. I think if it's a set that "everyone wants" then isn't keeping the simple layout with no extras the best way to do it to reduce cost? There are obviously going to be people that want extra kits for custom builds but most users even in GH still have standard layouts.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:37:12
He's not trying to stick it to MiTo he's just trying to make a set that everyone wants now.I'm waiting for the initial quote from SP. As you can imagine I'm getting a lot of requests for functionality support for other layouts and the more I add it will jack up the price for everyone which I don't wanna do.
Since you really wanna stick it to MiTo you should run this the same time as the PuLse and see what happens. You're going to be overwhelmed with the amount of orders since 1. Everyone will probably get their sets much sooner and 2. Price is going to be much cheaper than PuLse
Fair enough. I think if it's a set that "everyone wants" then isn't keeping the simple layout with no extras the best way to do it to reduce cost? There are obviously going to be people that want extra kits for custom builds but most users even in GH still have standard layouts.
Simple layout with basic support such as Tenkey and tsangan and UK iso is how I'd go about it which is what I sent to SP. If I can add a few keys that covers wide range of other layouts for low cost then I am willing to do so. It's all in Sp's hands at this point
Post by: tangkims on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:47:50
He's not trying to stick it to MiTo he's just trying to make a set that everyone wants now.I'm waiting for the initial quote from SP. As you can imagine I'm getting a lot of requests for functionality support for other layouts and the more I add it will jack up the price for everyone which I don't wanna do.
Since you really wanna stick it to MiTo you should run this the same time as the PuLse and see what happens. You're going to be overwhelmed with the amount of orders since 1. Everyone will probably get their sets much sooner and 2. Price is going to be much cheaper than PuLse
Fair enough. I think if it's a set that "everyone wants" then isn't keeping the simple layout with no extras the best way to do it to reduce cost? There are obviously going to be people that want extra kits for custom builds but most users even in GH still have standard layouts.
Simple layout with basic support such as Tenkey and tsangan and UK iso is how I'd go about it which is what I sent to SP. If I can add a few keys that covers wide range of other layouts for low cost then I am willing to do so. It's all in Sp's hands at this point
That sounds like a solid plan. But the real question is... will "FLaTLiNE" be a one time run? :eek:
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:48:59
I am officially not adding any additional keys after jd40/45 support, only removing or splitting it up.
My rendering guy is mad because I keep asking for revisions :D
Post by: rainb1ood on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:55:22
Post by: mun2912 on Mon, 25 January 2016, 11:09:38
One time run from me I ain't doing it again. Anyone is free to do as many rounds as they want though ;)splitting it up is what i am looking for :D
I am officially not adding any additional keys after jd40/45 support, only removing or splitting it up.
My rendering guy is mad because I keep asking for revisions :D
Post by: Floody on Mon, 25 January 2016, 11:46:41
I'm all for splitting them up as wellOne time run from me I ain't doing it again. Anyone is free to do as many rounds as they want though ;)splitting it up is what i am looking for :D
I am officially not adding any additional keys after jd40/45 support, only removing or splitting it up.
My rendering guy is mad because I keep asking for revisions :D
Post by: Edmundoh on Mon, 25 January 2016, 12:01:52
My rendering guy is mad because I keep asking for revisions :D
Haha I feel for him, looking forward to the GB, Sifo!
I wanted to ask if you've included a 1.75 shift anywhere, keen to put it on my whitefox when it arrives :cool:
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 12:04:01
My rendering guy is mad because I keep asking for revisions :D
Haha I feel for him, looking forward to the GB, Sifo!
I wanted to ask if you've included a 1.75 shift anywhere, keen to put it on my whitefox when it arrives :cool:
Yes short right shift and 1x Fn is included
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 25 January 2016, 12:14:42
It's flatline. You know. Because flatlines aren't wavy.
Post by: f1xedgear on Mon, 25 January 2016, 12:16:13
The hell is FLaTLiNE?why not FLATLINE then? The top/bottom of the letters line up that way
It's flatline. You know. Because flatlines aren't wavy.
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 25 January 2016, 12:17:06
The hell is FLaTLiNE?why not FLATLINE then? The top/bottom of the letters line up that way
It's flatline. You know. Because flatlines aren't wavy.
Why not ?
Post by: whmeltonjr on Mon, 25 January 2016, 12:20:46
The hell is FLaTLiNE?why not FLATLINE then? The top/bottom of the letters line up that way
It's flatline. You know. Because flatlines aren't wavy.
Why not ?
Why not what? What goes in the blank? I have to know! Tell me now! The suspense is killing me! :p
Post by: f1xedgear on Mon, 25 January 2016, 12:22:03
Sorry, that information was oMiT-edThe hell is FLaTLiNE?why not FLATLINE then? The top/bottom of the letters line up that way
It's flatline. You know. Because flatlines aren't wavy.
Why not ?
Why not what? What goes in the blank? I have to know! Tell me now! The suspense is killing me! :p
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 25 January 2016, 12:44:06
The hell is FLaTLiNE?why not FLATLINE then? The top/bottom of the letters line up that way
It's flatline. You know. Because flatlines aren't wavy.
Why not ?
Why not what? What goes in the blank? I have to know! Tell me now! The suspense is killing me! :p
Who knows what I was trying to say. I think I had something but I instead drew a blank.
All I can see is a line where a word should be.
Just a plain, flat line.
Post by: keshley on Mon, 25 January 2016, 12:44:30
Post by: Edmundoh on Mon, 25 January 2016, 12:49:17
My rendering guy is mad because I keep asking for revisions :D
Haha I feel for him, looking forward to the GB, Sifo!
I wanted to ask if you've included a 1.75 shift anywhere, keen to put it on my whitefox when it arrives :cool:
Yes short right shift and 1x Fn is included
Awesome! Thanks :D
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Mon, 25 January 2016, 13:03:32
The hell is FLaTLiNE?why not FLATLINE then? The top/bottom of the letters line up that way
It's flatline. You know. Because flatlines aren't wavy.
Why not ?
Why not what? What goes in the blank? I have to know! Tell me now! The suspense is killing me! :p
Who knows what I was trying to say. I think I had something but I instead drew a blank.
All I can see is a line where a word should be.
Just a plain, flat line.
:thumb:
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 25 January 2016, 16:36:26
I do like BBJ quite a bit, definitely more than I thought I would. Not quite as in your face as BBQ. Will be handing over money.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 25 January 2016, 16:38:54
One time run from me I ain't doing it again. Anyone is free to do as many rounds as they want though ;)
This is actually a very cool little point/topic. Passing along blessings of sets to others if you no longer want to run a set is a pretty stellar idea. You can always just hand the set to PMK and let them run it as requested by the community as well. Basically just drop off the design and forget about the rest
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 16:45:59
Post by: LXXXIX on Mon, 25 January 2016, 16:47:01
Gonna chase after SP tonight, no response yet. Hope my email didn't go straight to junk ^_^
Have you tried calling them?
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 16:48:00
Gonna chase after SP tonight, no response yet. Hope my email didn't go straight to junk ^_^
Have you tried calling them?
No because long distance but I will if necessary.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Mon, 25 January 2016, 16:48:14
Gonna chase after SP tonight, no response yet. Hope my email didn't go straight to junk ^_^
Have you made contact before? If you need contact info just PM me and Ill give you what you need. They usually respond within a day at the most
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 16:52:27
Gonna chase after SP tonight, no response yet. Hope my email didn't go straight to junk ^_^
Have you made contact before? If you need contact info just PM me and Ill give you what you need. They usually respond within a day at the most
I should have melissa's email somewhere in my email archives but I used the contact form this time around. I'll give em a reminder email tonight
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 25 January 2016, 16:54:15
Post by: mashby on Mon, 25 January 2016, 16:56:16
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Mon, 25 January 2016, 18:08:26
Post by: qazeqaz on Mon, 25 January 2016, 18:29:17
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 25 January 2016, 18:31:46
The color code is BBJ from SP
(http://keycapsdirect.com/images/colors/absblue.JPG)
Also ya'll in this thread talking like you expected something less than amazing?
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 25 January 2016, 18:41:22
Wow. This set actually looks pretty decent. I'm surprised. :thumb:
Sifo's involved, what more can be said 8) .
His BJ choice is sublime and shall further enhance this colour-way.
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Mon, 25 January 2016, 19:54:55
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 25 January 2016, 20:33:45
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 25 January 2016, 22:08:38
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 00:09:12
Post by: mashby on Tue, 26 January 2016, 10:25:54
Post by: tangkims on Tue, 26 January 2016, 10:45:45
If this is being sold as a complete set, I'd be interested in buying someone's GeekHack keys. :cool:
Set up a group buy for R2!
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 26 January 2016, 11:37:49
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/3W3w1T112M3B1t0e1i0n/Image%202016-01-24%20at%2010.00.22%20PM.png?v=961af3d8) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78847.350)
This should be put in the OP, with the URL added (I amended it in the quote).
Regardless, sig repped! :thumb:
Post by: lishi on Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:10:39
https://soundcloud.com/bobatl/bob-flatline-feat-neil-tyson
Who would've thought falt-earth rappers would be promoting this keyset ;D :p
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:12:29
This is also me just being flustered and is just my opinion on what's going on, maybe I'm just being a conspiracy tard. SP claims they raised the prices in November so this could very well just be the new pricing.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:17:19
SP be like oh you want an SA set...well ok then....
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:19:44
Well I guess every SA set has gone up in price guys.
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:41:05
"Can you let me know what sets you are comparing to? In November we had to re-evaluate our SA pricing as we were not accounting for the much larger shot size and the longer time it takes to run these. This pricing is comparable to other sets that we have run since..."
Well I guess every SA set has gone up in price guys.
Have you asked the organizer from troubled minds?
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:46:46
"Can you let me know what sets you are comparing to? In November we had to re-evaluate our SA pricing as we were not accounting for the much larger shot size and the longer time it takes to run these. This pricing is comparable to other sets that we have run since..."
Well I guess every SA set has gone up in price guys.
They increased their prices by 50%? Due to increased shot size? I admit this is not my industry, but that doesn't add up. The materials account for a very minimal portion of the charged price, so even a 100% increase in material price would only correspond to a minimal increase in finished product cost.
I should just stop agreeing to ship Group Buys, they all die before they even go to production. :))
Also, a $50 increase in price basically prices out...well...every interested buyer. Either they have no interest in running additional SA sets, or the community is just going to have to stop liking them.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:51:26
"Can you let me know what sets you are comparing to? In November we had to re-evaluate our SA pricing as we were not accounting for the much larger shot size and the longer time it takes to run these. This pricing is comparable to other sets that we have run since..."
Well I guess every SA set has gone up in price guys.
They increased their prices by 50%? Due to increased shot size? I admit this is not my industry, but that doesn't add up. The materials account for a very minimal portion of the charged price, so even a 100% increase in material price would only correspond to a minimal increase in finished product cost.
I should just stop agreeing to ship Group Buys, they all die before they even go to production. :))
Also, a $50 increase in price basically prices out...well...every interested buyer. Either they have no interest in running additional SA sets, or the community is just going to have to stop liking them.
Or they have no interest in producing this particular set. I'll ask camper about the troubled minds quote
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:53:59
"Can you let me know what sets you are comparing to? In November we had to re-evaluate our SA pricing as we were not accounting for the much larger shot size and the longer time it takes to run these. This pricing is comparable to other sets that we have run since..."
Well I guess every SA set has gone up in price guys.
They increased their prices by 50%? Due to increased shot size? I admit this is not my industry, but that doesn't add up. The materials account for a very minimal portion of the charged price, so even a 100% increase in material price would only correspond to a minimal increase in finished product cost.
I should just stop agreeing to ship Group Buys, they all die before they even go to production. :))
Also, a $50 increase in price basically prices out...well...every interested buyer. Either they have no interest in running additional SA sets, or the community is just going to have to stop liking them.
Or they have no interest in producing this particular set. I'll ask camper about the troubled minds quote
Well obviously. :P I'm just saying if they are in fact being honest.
And if they're not...that's really ****ty. Basically lying to us. I know that pricing like this is sketchy and all that, but damn.
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:59:05
"Can you let me know what sets you are comparing to? In November we had to re-evaluate our SA pricing as we were not accounting for the much larger shot size and the longer time it takes to run these. This pricing is comparable to other sets that we have run since..."
Well I guess every SA set has gone up in price guys.
They increased their prices by 50%? Due to increased shot size? I admit this is not my industry, but that doesn't add up. The materials account for a very minimal portion of the charged price, so even a 100% increase in material price would only correspond to a minimal increase in finished product cost.
I should just stop agreeing to ship Group Buys, they all die before they even go to production. :))
Also, a $50 increase in price basically prices out...well...every interested buyer. Either they have no interest in running additional SA sets, or the community is just going to have to stop liking them.
Or they have no interest in producing this particular set. I'll ask camper about the troubled minds quote
Well obviously. :P I'm just saying if they are in fact being honest.
And if they're not...that's really ****ty. Basically lying to us. I know that pricing like this is sketchy and all that, but damn.
I have no horse in this race, but I doubt SP/PMK are being dishonest with you. They are first and foremost a small company. I can't imagine that they would take "sides" or even really care about anything being discussed on these forums or reddit. There may be a very good reason as to why the price increased, or there may not.
The alternative is that a niche plastic-making company has a vendetta against some of their main clients and want to actively sabotage them. Possible, but not likely.
However, it will be interesting to see what future SA profile sets are priced at.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:01:05
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:02:58
Well, maybe it's just me, but I would buy this set if it were in DCS. People hate on DCS for no good reason, but I still like it.
And I would buy it in DSA. :D
Would prefer PBT though.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:09:18
The former action shuts down on such copycat designs completely. The latter gives these designs a chance, and the premium then serves dual purposes: to discourage interest (in the hopes of seeing the copycat die in IC), or to provide the financial means to compensate the original designer (in the case where enough people with too much money still agree to buy in).
All of this is merely a consequence of SP having control over how the "IP rights" of designers are honored, given the fact that there is no formal IP law that will step in and do it for them. It is also a consequence of SP being the only game in town for spherical keycaps. It could be worse: they could have decided to just get out of the custom keyset business all together, focusing exclusively on their large industrial contracts instead.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:10:25
Well, maybe it's just me, but I would buy this set if it were in DCS. People hate on DCS for no good reason, but I still like it.
And I would buy it in DSA. :D
Would prefer PBT though.
DSA and PBT are both no-go for me. :(
Post by: FLFisherman on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:11:30
Well, maybe it's just me, but I would buy this set if it were in DCS. People hate on DCS for no good reason, but I still like it.
And I would buy it in DSA. :D
Would prefer PBT though.
DSA and PBT are both no-go for me. :(
Sigh. Guess we're gonna fight now.
The point stands in that there are other options. :D
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:12:32
Post by: Lepidus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:14:11
2-Get pricing quote
3-"Hey, I would like to change colors to BBJ and NN"
4-???
5-PROFIT
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:14:41
$50 increase? Might as well go GMK with that route then.
Thats what I'm saying lol
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:18:16
$50 increase? Might as well go GMK with that route then.
Thats what I'm saying lol
With stuff like that, SP is really disenfranchising themselves from us. Sad given how much the community has helped them and made it so that they actually have impacted production lines.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:18:51
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:20:26
Post by: Lepidus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:20:37
From what I know of GMK keysets, their MOQ is so high that most proposed designs never see the light of day. That is unlikely to be a viable route for Flatline.
Not so much for non-custom colors tho.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:21:39
250 MOQ with GMK. Totally doable.
I thought it was now 150?
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:23:53
Well obviously. :P I'm just saying if they are in fact being honest.
And if they're not...that's really ****ty. Basically lying to us. I know that pricing like this is sketchy and all that, but damn.
I have no horse in this race, but I doubt SP/PMK are being dishonest with you. They are first and foremost a small company. I can't imagine that they would take "sides" or even really care about anything being discussed on these forums or reddit. There may be a very good reason as to why the price increased, or there may not.
The alternative is that a niche plastic-making company has a vendetta against some of their main clients and want to actively sabotage them. Possible, but not likely.
However, it will be interesting to see what future SA profile sets are priced at.
To blatantly lie would be a shock, that's for sure. That's what I was attempting to convey.
But pricing in manufacturing is always this weird mystery where you're never really supposed to know what the "market rate" is, and usually the larger operation holds the power. I don't have the best grasp on that world, other than to know that it's far more complicated than I ever imagined. So for them to be secretive and such is totally normal (although in this community that seems fruitless), but to lie would be a surprise (I don't think they have spoken a non-truth). However, to be selective in their phrasing? Only they can say. ;)
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:24:43
250 MOQ with GMK. Totally doable.
I thought it was now 150?
Would probably need a custom color for this though, I'd guess. And IIRC, custom color MOQ is 250 now.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:25:46
250 MOQ with GMK. Totally doable.
I thought it was now 150?
Would probably need a custom color for this though, I'd guess. And IIRC, custom color MOQ is 250 now.
Oh yeah I wasn't thinking about custom colors.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:26:08
$50 increase? Might as well go GMK with that route then.
Thats what I'm saying lol
With stuff like that, SP is really disenfranchising themselves from us. Sad given how much the community has helped them and made it so that they actually have impacted production lines.
I suspect SP has been trying to do that for years now. But the population of willing buyers continues to grow despite their best efforts to discourage interest. For every buyer who refuses to absorb a price increase of $50, there are ten others who won't blink at that. These keycaps are a niche luxury product that nobody really needs. Prices are going to continue to rise, probably every year. We might as well just get used to it.
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:27:30
250 MOQ with GMK. Totally doable.
I thought it was now 150?
Would probably need a custom color for this though, I'd guess. And IIRC, custom color MOQ is 250 now.
UN5047 and NN would be pretty close.
Onto the MOQ though, did it really drop to 150 on standard colors? I hadn't heard that.
$50 increase? Might as well go GMK with that route then.
Thats what I'm saying lol
With stuff like that, SP is really disenfranchising themselves from us. Sad given how much the community has helped them and made it so that they actually have impacted production lines.
I suspect SP has been trying to do that for years now. But the population of willing buyers continues to grow despite their best efforts to discourage interest. For every buyer who refuses to absorb a price increase of $50, there are ten others who won't blink at that. These keycaps are a niche luxury product that nobody really needs. Prices are going to continue to rise, probably every year. We might as well just get used to it.
They need to understand they're not the only have in town. Tai-Hao is only marginally worse than SP. GMK is around, JTK is starting up, Gateron is growing, abd there a bunch of others expanding. Raising their prices will only drive more alternatives.
So, in short, no, we shouldn't "just get used to it".
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:29:38
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:31:56
this project is really riding on the burning desire to spite MiTo.
I think you're missing the point. It's not to spite MiTo at all. It's to make an improved version that we want.
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:32:39
Abd, like JD said, this is to meet what the community originally wanted, not what they got.
Post by: nickheller on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:33:40
Post by: romevi on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:34:30
this project is really riding on the burning desire to spite MiTo.
I think you're missing the point. It's not to spite MiTo at all. It's to make an improved version that we want.
Didn't it start as that, though?
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:35:49
Cherry profile is better anyway.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Post by: Bucky on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:37:43
I would definitely consider GMK, would love to see renders of cherry profile with whatever colors are closest.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:38:30
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:41:25
Post by: romevi on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:41:32
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:51:18
I really do want it to be spherical. However I'm not really sure what to do right now. SP suggested splitting it up into kits but really that's only going to increase the price for everyone.
Everyone who doesn't use a standard layout TKL/60% maybe. But a lot of people don't need iso, numpad, row 2 escape keys, etc.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:52:32
How cost-effective is it to do novelty legends with GMK?
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:56:27
I really do want it to be spherical. However I'm not really sure what to do right now. SP suggested splitting it up into kits but really that's only going to increase the price for everyone.
Everyone who doesn't use a standard layout TKL/60% maybe. But a lot of people don't need iso, numpad, row 2 escape keys, etc.
Yes I understand this.
I haven't worked with gmk before so that's foreign to me but I guess I'm forced to consider it at this point since it'll be cheaper lol.
Post by: romevi on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:57:29
Here's another consideration: the PuLSE colorway could get repeat production by MiTo himself, which could satisfy the SA fans. But this GB could be a win by providing the colorway for a family that never had it before (OEM/Cherry). If you think you can drum up enough orders, go GMK and fill a void.
How cost-effective is it to do novelty legends with GMK?
I'd be down for DCS or GMK.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 13:59:36
I haven't worked with gmk before so that's foreign to me but I guess I'm forced to consider it at this point since it'll be cheaper lol.
Never thought I'd be reading this statement, hahaha.
Post by: bloodl1n3 on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:00:26
I love the colorway. The blue is a bit too green for me, but I still want to jump on it. If this happens in any other profile/height I'm still down.
I like the colorway too. I'd be down for any profile besides DSA. I actually like Cherry profile over SA, but either one works for me.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:04:00
Post by: sherryton on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:04:36
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:05:38
I just got the most outrageous quote from SP earlier this morning. Basically there was a $50 increase per MOQ tier compared to every other SA set, which I cross checked with other GB leaders. This is what I was worried about. SP/PMK works directly with mito and profits off of pulse and they see this set as a threat to their business. Since they can't refuse to make the set it looks like they'll just charge us up the ass for it. I've emailed asking why there is such a dramatic price increase but at the current tiers this buy won't happen and I don't know what I can do. This isn't about whether people are willing to pay an absurd amount of money for an SA set because I'm not cool with that this is supposed to be affordable. But really this is stupid as hell
This is also me just being flustered and is just my opinion on what's going on, maybe I'm just being a conspiracy tard. SP claims they raised the prices in November so this could very well just be the new pricing.
This is going to be interesting as at least one or two other sets have just put in for pricing on SA sets. I'm now very interested to see what pricing they come back with regarding this.
Post by: xondat on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:08:51
/me is in favor of this becoming a GMK set
Cherry profile is better anyway.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
+1, doesn't need to be SA because SP are being *******s.
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:11:49
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:13:11
jussaying :(
[IC]Triumph Adler At Night
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:13:14
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
True! Hadn't considered Miami Nights as being very close to this. Good point, LX.
Post by: f1xedgear on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:13:23
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.GMK Miami Nights + GMK Electric Boogaloo = GMK Flatline :D
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:13:33
Post by: romevi on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:18:43
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
Ever hear of Miami Twice? :))
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:21:09
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
Ever hear of Miami Twice? :))
Not really the same though, Miami R1 didn't have cherry legends, proper ISO support or a center stemmed stepped capslock Twice fixed those issues, the only point I see in this set is that it's a **** you to mito for being a cheeky begger and to make the pulse set a set people would actually want and fix the issues that set had, if this is just another gmk set it will be ****ing christmas before anyone gets anything and loliso support b/c no one wants to pay
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:22:24
Cherry Profile = GMK (or JT)
SA = SP
Those are the only 2 types I personally like to buy. So I guess my point is that if SP is running it some people only want SA profile from them. Anything else people will look somewhere else (for the most part I believe).
Post by: romevi on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:35:42
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
Ever hear of Miami Twice? :))
Not really the same though, Miami R1 didn't have cherry legends, proper ISO support or a center stemmed stepped capslock Twice fixed those issues, the only point I see in this set is that it's a **** you to mito for being a cheeky begger and to make the pulse set a set people would actually want and fix the issues that set had, if this is just another gmk set it will be ****ing christmas before anyone gets anything and loliso support b/c no one wants to pay
I'd buy it in any other profile. Since MiTo is re-running his set I see no reason to get a set that's eerily similar.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:36:32
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
Ever hear of Miami Twice? :))
Not really the same though, Miami R1 didn't have cherry legends, proper ISO support or a center stemmed stepped capslock Twice fixed those issues, the only point I see in this set is that it's a **** you to mito for being a cheeky begger and to make the pulse set a set people would actually want and fix the issues that set had, if this is just another gmk set it will be ****ing christmas before anyone gets anything and loliso support b/c no one wants to pay
I'd buy it in any other profile. Since MiTo is re-running his set I see no reason to get a set that's eerily similar.
if the point of this set isn't a **** you to mito then i dont even see the point, sifo doesn't even like the colours lmao
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:39:46
Post by: xondat on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:40:42
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:41:26
if the point of this set isn't a **** you to mito then i dont even see the point, sifo doesn't even like the colours lmao
TIL you can't be involved in a project unless you want the product.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:47:04
if the point of this set isn't a **** you to mito then i dont even see the point, sifo doesn't even like the colours lmao
TIL you can't be involved in a project unless you want the product.
weow des memes
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:48:12
if the point of this set isn't a **** you to mito then i dont even see the point, sifo doesn't even like the colours lmao
TIL you can't be involved in a project unless you want the product.
weow des memes
:-*
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:50:23
Is this a **** you set or a independent set, sifo clarify pls.He's said from the beginning it has nothing to do with MiTo one way or the other. I don't know why people are getting confused, unless there is some drama on reddit of which I'm unaware.
Post by: romevi on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:50:32
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
Ever hear of Miami Twice? :))
Not really the same though, Miami R1 didn't have cherry legends, proper ISO support or a center stemmed stepped capslock Twice fixed those issues, the only point I see in this set is that it's a **** you to mito for being a cheeky begger and to make the pulse set a set people would actually want and fix the issues that set had, if this is just another gmk set it will be ****ing christmas before anyone gets anything and loliso support b/c no one wants to pay
I'd buy it in any other profile. Since MiTo is re-running his set I see no reason to get a set that's eerily similar.
if the point of this set isn't a **** you to mito then i dont even see the point, sifo doesn't even like the colours lmao
I thought it started as a rant, and then went on to be a more refined version of Pulse (I forget which is caps).
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:53:09
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
Ever hear of Miami Twice? :))
Not really the same though, Miami R1 didn't have cherry legends, proper ISO support or a center stemmed stepped capslock Twice fixed those issues, the only point I see in this set is that it's a **** you to mito for being a cheeky begger and to make the pulse set a set people would actually want and fix the issues that set had, if this is just another gmk set it will be ****ing christmas before anyone gets anything and loliso support b/c no one wants to pay
I'd buy it in any other profile. Since MiTo is re-running his set I see no reason to get a set that's eerily similar.
if the point of this set isn't a **** you to mito then i dont even see the point, sifo doesn't even like the colours lmao
I thought it started as a rant, and then went on to be a more refined version of Pulse (I forget which is caps).
It started as a direct copy after the community learned of both SP's rules regarding reproducing sets and the original set designer's wishes that the set run again (or maybe not, depending on the day). It morphed into a "fixed" colorway SA set, and here we are, deciding what to do now.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:03:34
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
Ever hear of Miami Twice? :))
Not really the same though, Miami R1 didn't have cherry legends, proper ISO support or a center stemmed stepped capslock Twice fixed those issues, the only point I see in this set is that it's a **** you to mito for being a cheeky begger and to make the pulse set a set people would actually want and fix the issues that set had, if this is just another gmk set it will be ****ing christmas before anyone gets anything and loliso support b/c no one wants to pay
I'd buy it in any other profile. Since MiTo is re-running his set I see no reason to get a set that's eerily similar.
if the point of this set isn't a **** you to mito then i dont even see the point, sifo doesn't even like the colours lmao
I thought it started as a rant, and then went on to be a more refined version of Pulse (I forget which is caps).
It started as a direct copy after the community learned of both SP's rules regarding reproducing sets and the original set designer's wishes that the set run again (or maybe not, depending on the day). It morphed into a "fixed" colorway SA set, and here we are, deciding what to do now.
Which was my understanding also, I just put the abridged version, if that's not the case then I'm going to bail, if it's not Miami and it's not some troll joke, whats the point.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:06:00
Better hurry up and get this going... (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/420tbt/slug/cz6w2ka)
LOL @ LSB
Just trying to keep things positive ;)
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:12:39
Flatline was originally going by the name elsuP, which ought to put to rest any debate over what the original motivations were. For some, those original motivations are still the driving force of their interest.
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:13:49
I like SA but it's not a deal breaker for me. But I can't bring myself to pay for the other SP profiles, which are too thin for my taste. GMK could be nice.
I think the IC needs some kind of poll/form to move forward.
My crazy suggestion (for whatever profile) - it could be the same colors but in blanks, that would reduce the number compatibility keys needed and lower the price.
Post by: diqkiq on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:17:58
Dasher Dancer should be getting pricing soon. We shall seeI just got the most outrageous quote from SP earlier this morning. Basically there was a $50 increase per MOQ tier compared to every other SA set, which I cross checked with other GB leaders. This is what I was worried about. SP/PMK works directly with mito and profits off of pulse and they see this set as a threat to their business. Since they can't refuse to make the set it looks like they'll just charge us up the ass for it. I've emailed asking why there is such a dramatic price increase but at the current tiers this buy won't happen and I don't know what I can do. This isn't about whether people are willing to pay an absurd amount of money for an SA set because I'm not cool with that this is supposed to be affordable. But really this is stupid as hell
This is also me just being flustered and is just my opinion on what's going on, maybe I'm just being a conspiracy tard. SP claims they raised the prices in November so this could very well just be the new pricing.
This is going to be interesting as at least one or two other sets have just put in for pricing on SA sets. I'm now very interested to see what pricing they come back with regarding this.
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:24:22
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
True! Hadn't considered Miami Nights as being very close to this. Good point, LX.
I'd ok, we can do skeletor instead.
More
(http://i.imgur.com/SMPGL4b.png)
Let's hope SP fixes prices.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:25:45
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
True! Hadn't considered Miami Nights as being very close to this. Good point, LX.
I'd ok, we can do skeletor instead.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/SMPGL4b.png)
Let's hope SP fixes prices.
This thread is now an IC for whatever nubs just posted.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:26:28
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
True! Hadn't considered Miami Nights as being very close to this. Good point, LX.
I'd ok, we can do skeletor instead.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/SMPGL4b.png)
Let's hope SP fixes prices.
This thread is now an IC for whatever nubs just posted.
+1
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:28:28
Let's hope SP fixes prices.
I thought that was the problem :P :llama:
Post by: tangkims on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:30:36
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
True! Hadn't considered Miami Nights as being very close to this. Good point, LX.
I'd ok, we can do skeletor instead.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/SMPGL4b.png)
Let's hope SP fixes prices.
What did you mean by SP fixes prices?
I'm definitely no pricing expert but...if all else is kept the same as in SA profile caps and all the kits the same... would changing the colors make it cheaper? If that's the case... BBJ must be some next level stuff.
Post by: romevi on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:34:48
if it's not Miami and it's not some troll joke, whats the point.
I was just joking, utilizing the name Twice.
But seriously, I'd want to get a set like this as I'm in love with the colorway (blue could be a bit more blue, tomatoes will be tomatoes) and root for a different profile.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:38:36
If we take a look here at a set run recently which should have been after their supposed price increase, Base kit + ISO + nonstandard + numpad = $150.96 at 100 MOQ (which not every kit even met that MOQ, some of the numbers are abysmal)
That includes Massdrop + designer mark ups in pricing, has significantly more keys involved than my all in 1, has kits split up, and even custom legends novelty and dyesub which cost $45 each, AND includes shipping costs to Massdrop.
The quote I was given from SP was the following:
25 sets $237.61 per set
50 sets $171.32 per set
75 sets $149.23 per set
100 sets $138.18 per set
150 sets $127.13 per set
200 sets $121.61 per set
250 sets $118.29 per set
The set I'm quoting is 138 keys with 2 space bars and 2 blanks, no custom legends, and does not include ANY additional fees, not even shipping to our distributor and then shipping to you guys.
Yet both of our sets are $1/key at 100 MOQ
Hm..........
Post by: tangkims on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:46:55
http://www.massdrop.community/mechkeys/troubled-minds/
If we take a look here at a set run recently which should have been after their supposed price increase, Base kit + ISO + nonstandard + numpad = $150.96 at 100 MOQ (which not every kit even met that MOQ, some of the numbers are abysmal)
That includes Massdrop + designer mark ups in pricing, has significantly more keys involved than my all in 1, has kits split up, and even custom legends novelty and dyesub which cost $45 each, AND includes shipping costs to Massdrop.
The quote I was given from SP was the following:
25 sets $237.61 per set
50 sets $171.32 per set
75 sets $149.23 per set
100 sets $138.18 per set
150 sets $127.13 per set
200 sets $121.61 per set
250 sets $118.29 per set
The set I'm quoting is 138 keys with 2 space bars and 2 blanks, no custom legends, and does not include ANY additional fees, not even shipping to our distributor and then shipping to you guys.
Yet both of our sets are $1/key at 100 MOQ
Hm..........
http://www.massdrop.community/mechkeys/troubled-minds/
If we take a look here at a set run recently which should have been after their supposed price increase, Base kit + ISO + nonstandard + numpad = $150.96 at 100 MOQ (which not every kit even met that MOQ, some of the numbers are abysmal)
That includes Massdrop + designer mark ups in pricing, has significantly more keys involved than my all in 1, has kits split up, and even custom legends novelty and dyesub which cost $45 each, AND includes shipping costs to Massdrop.
The quote I was given from SP was the following:
25 sets $237.61 per set
50 sets $171.32 per set
75 sets $149.23 per set
100 sets $138.18 per set
150 sets $127.13 per set
200 sets $121.61 per set
250 sets $118.29 per set
The set I'm quoting is 138 keys with 2 space bars and 2 blanks, no custom legends, and does not include ANY additional fees, not even shipping to our distributor and then shipping to you guys.
Yet both of our sets are $1/key at 100 MOQ
Hm..........
I guess this means the end of GH group buys? For that pricing and effort... it's easier if everything goes through massdrop or PMK now?
Post by: Homenubbie on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:47:03
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:49:58
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:50:55
Go through Massdrop and PMK so they can make money on marking up sets, yes ^_^
Or just go GMK and be done with it. Better profile, apparently better pricing.
Post by: thesiscamper on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:51:16
Post by: f1xedgear on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:53:16
I had no input on TM's pricing, but check out Dusk since hippo posted pricing tiers in the group buy.For the Lazy:
(http://i.imgur.com/sRVmlIe.png)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77999.msg1978007#msg1978007
Post by: thesiscamper on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:54:42
Thanks, I'm on mobile, in a train.I had no input on TM's pricing, but check out Dusk since hippo posted pricing tiers in the group buy.For the Lazy:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/sRVmlIe.png)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77999.msg1978007#msg1978007
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:56:47
Official response was
"Sorry I wasn't clear - Massdrop gets a larger discount because of the overall volume that they purchase from us. We use the same price formula and the same set volume discount scale, Massdrop just has earned a larger discount."
So basically all these GB's we've run giving them money all these years earns us a big **** you.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:57:34
So basically all these GB's we've run giving them money all these years earns us a big **** you.
rip
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:58:16
So dusk was $169 for 130 keys split into 4 different kits, they got it even worse.
Official response was
"Sorry I wasn't clear - Massdrop gets a larger discount because of the overall volume that they purchase from us. We use the same price formula and the same set volume discount scale, Massdrop just has earned a larger discount."
So basically all these GB's we've run giving them money all these years earns us a big **** you.
lol
Yeah geekhack hasn't bought any sort of volume. :))
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:58:28
So dusk was $169 for 130 keys split into 4 different kits, they got it even worse.
Official response was
"Sorry I wasn't clear - Massdrop gets a larger discount because of the overall volume that they purchase from us. We use the same price formula and the same set volume discount scale, Massdrop just has earned a larger discount."
So basically all these GB's we've run giving them money all these years earns us a big **** you.
Is anyone really surprised by this?
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 15:59:11
So dusk was $169 for 130 keys split into 4 different kits, they got it even worse.
Official response was
"Sorry I wasn't clear - Massdrop gets a larger discount because of the overall volume that they purchase from us. We use the same price formula and the same set volume discount scale, Massdrop just has earned a larger discount."
So basically all these GB's we've run giving them money all these years earns us a big **** you.
Is anyone really surprised by this?
No, but it still sucks to see it in writing.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:02:37
Post by: Ail on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:05:12
Post by: tangkims on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:08:30
Post by: FrostyToast on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:10:28
We are all one big family guys... I guess we know who SP sees as the favourite child.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:13:05
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:14:14
even if you guys were willing to pay the SP "new pricing" premium I won't run the set at that price point
I won't ship the set at that price point.
Post by: fublamchu on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:14:25
I do wonder how much the Pulse R2 set is going to be though... it'll probably reach 250+ MOQ for base set. Around 80 USD I'm assuming?
Considering how cheap PulSE round 1 was ($60 per base set?) and how hyped PulSE became after the original buy ended. I assume it could be cheaper since more people want to buy it now?
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:14:32
But.... The members of geekhack designed all those sets MD has run...
We are all one big family guys... I guess we know who SP sees as the favourite child.
Family lol, there is no family.
They are ****ing who they can for the most cash, atm MassDrop is the new hotness and because of Ripster and r/mk and some of the retards running GB's GH's gotten a bad reputation on top of its difficult to penetrate chat. So SP can make more money from MD as one thing, rather than lots of random people from here, they know that they can **** us on price on min and back track another soon as MD chills on orders.
For as much 'MURICA as there is on this forum it's so funny that when **** like this comes up so many of the people who are bummed out are 'muricans, but idk maybe it's just me.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:16:08
For as much 'MURICA as there is on this forum it's so funny that when **** like this comes up so many of the people who are bummed out are 'muricans, but idk maybe it's just me.
What does this have to do with anything? I love supporting American businesses, but only if they don't try to screw me around.
Anyway, GG alienating the source of most of the good designs.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:17:40
For as much 'MURICA as there is on this forum it's so funny that when **** like this comes up so many of the people who are bummed out are 'muricans, but idk maybe it's just me.
What does this have to do with anything? I love supporting American businesses, but only if they don't try to screw me around.
Anyway, GG alienating the source of most of the good designs.
It's probably safe to assume there won't be much support to boycott the only manufacturer of SA sets. DCS has already seen a rapid decline in popularity due to GMK, but SA and DSA are still on the table.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:19:22
For as much 'MURICA as there is on this forum it's so funny that when **** like this comes up so many of the people who are bummed out are 'muricans, but idk maybe it's just me.
What does this have to do with anything? I love supporting American businesses, but only if they don't try to screw me around.
Anyway, GG alienating the source of most of the good designs.
It's an american company working in the most american way possible (from an foreigners pov), screwing everyone for the most money as fast as possible, maybe its a misnomer? idk m8
But I didn't alienate anyone who doesn't already dislike me wtf I can barely run a bath let alone a GB
Post by: fublamchu on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:21:17
For as much 'MURICA as there is on this forum it's so funny that when **** like this comes up so many of the people who are bummed out are 'muricans, but idk maybe it's just me.
What does this have to do with anything? I love supporting American businesses, but only if they don't try to screw me around.
Anyway, GG alienating the source of most of the good designs.
It's an american company working in the most american way possible (from an foreigners pov), screwing everyone for the most money as fast as possible, maybe its a misnomer? idk m8
But I didn't alienate anyone who doesn't already dislike me wtf I can barely run a bath let alone a GB
TIL only Americans are greedy
Post by: FrostyToast on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:22:34
I didn't really have anything to put this set on anyway. I just wanted to buy it for support.
I guess it's good for me that I can save a little cash.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:22:38
Post by: Ail on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:24:38
For as much 'MURICA as there is on this forum it's so funny that when **** like this comes up so many of the people who are bummed out are 'muricans, but idk maybe it's just me.
What does this have to do with anything? I love supporting American businesses, but only if they don't try to screw me around.
Anyway, GG alienating the source of most of the good designs.
It's an american company working in the most american way possible (from an foreigners pov), screwing everyone for the most money as fast as possible, maybe its a misnomer? idk m8
But I didn't alienate anyone who doesn't already dislike me wtf I can barely run a bath let alone a GB
Not to get poltical but this is not uniquely American as much as residents of other countries would love to believe that. Greed is a universal plague.
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:27:26
So dusk was $169 for 130 keys split into 4 different kits, they got it even worse.
Official response was
"Sorry I wasn't clear - Massdrop gets a larger discount because of the overall volume that they purchase from us. We use the same price formula and the same set volume discount scale, Massdrop just has earned a larger discount."
So basically all these GB's we've run giving them money all these years earns us a big **** you.
lol
Yeah geekhack hasn't bought any sort of volume. :))
What makes it even worse is that GH is pretty much the reason why SP is able to operate at the volume they are now. This is a huge middle finger to the community who made it possible for them to even get the attention they do in the enthusiast market. It's always depressing to see a company decide to crap on those who helped them become what they are.
I guess I should have seen it coming when they tried the PMK model and made a huge markup on their color chits.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:27:52
Not to get poltical but this is not uniquely American as much as residents of other countries would love to believe that. Greed is a universal plague.
I never said it wasn't it's just a very american thing, the USA pushes capitalism more than any other nation on the planet (as basic media tv etc (look how much anti-healthcare and anti state support comes out of there)). I'm not replying to anymore bull**** like this in this thread, if you wana have it out with me about this holla in off topic or pm me, or even better have it out in the irc channel, where I'm #chillin. This aint my own personal ****-post thread.
Post by: tangkims on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:29:42
I do wonder how much the Pulse R2 set is going to be though... it'll probably reach 250+ MOQ for base set. Around 80 USD I'm assuming?
Considering how cheap PulSE round 1 was ($60 per base set?) and how hyped PulSE became after the original buy ended. I assume it could be cheaper since more people want to buy it now?
I do wonder how much the Pulse R2 set is going to be though... it'll probably reach 250+ MOQ for base set. Around 80 USD I'm assuming?
Considering how cheap PulSE round 1 was ($60 per base set?) and how hyped PulSE became after the original buy ended. I assume it could be cheaper since more people want to buy it now?
$60 or cheaper? I'm pretty sure MD won't go below $80 and the excess cost will just be revenue for them.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:31:53
I think Sifo has the right idea. If you aren't willing or able to pay SP's prices, then you must go a different way. Then again, had you gone with MassDrop, you would have enjoyed MD's volume discount and expansive customer base. But you want to do this all grassroots and stuff, and that leaves you without the leverage to manage prices more effectively.
It's interesting to watch people become so suddenly and keenly aware of just how little control they have over the key elements of this process.
Why do I get the feeling that everyone is under the (mistaken) impression that these tiny custom keycap group buys are SP's core business, and that they somehow owe some sort of debt of gratitude to everyone here?
Post by: tangkims on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:34:38
So dusk was $169 for 130 keys split into 4 different kits, they got it even worse.
Official response was
"Sorry I wasn't clear - Massdrop gets a larger discount because of the overall volume that they purchase from us. We use the same price formula and the same set volume discount scale, Massdrop just has earned a larger discount."
So basically all these GB's we've run giving them money all these years earns us a big **** you.
I'm pretty sure they just softened the blow by using the word "volume". Pretty sure they meant revenue earned. You can't deny that the group buys bought from GH are much better priced than MD.
The way I see it.. SP cut a deal with MD that earns them higher revenue per set. GH was just a community that was interested in caps and not profit.
Post by: Ail on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:38:37
Why do I get the feeling that everyone is under the (mistaken) impression that these tiny custom keycap group buys are SP's core business, and that they somehow owe some sort of debt of gratitude to everyone here?
Yep, not that GH et al. haven't helped butter their bread, but I have a feeling the MK community is a drop in the bucket for them.
http://www.solutionsinplastic.com/products.html
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:49:46
If you want spherical caps without SP, it's going to cost some tooling. Matt3o was working on getting scans of some IBM beam spring spherical caps for such an endeavor so you may want to see how that's going and see what can be done to help that project along.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:55:05
Post by: livingspeedbump on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:57:17
If this becomes Black & Cyan through GMK. Miami Nights is already pretty close to that since the legends over there include side printing.
I'm not sure if some people are ok with buying the same keys twice. j
jussaying :(
True! Hadn't considered Miami Nights as being very close to this. Good point, LX.
I'd ok, we can do skeletor instead.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/SMPGL4b.png)
Let's hope SP fixes prices.
This thread is now an IC for whatever nubs just posted.
whoa. Yeah please :thumb:
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:59:27
If GH wants to be in control of pricing, then GH needs to buy its own tooling. Until then you are at the mercy of whomever has the machines to make your widgets. There have been murmurs here and there about a Chinese manufacturer stepping up to the spherical keycap plate, but so far that's all we have...murmurs. Nobody is ready to compete with SP, and so the de facto monopoly reigns supreme.
GH did pay for a fair bit of tooling for SP, including working with them and sharing knowledge on correcting tooling and molds. Maybe GH just needs to tell SP that no one else can use their molds that they funded or provided the knowledge on how to correct.
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:01:21
Yep, not that GH et al. haven't helped butter their bread, but I have a feeling the MK community is a drop in the bucket for them.
http://www.solutionsinplastic.com/products.html (http://www.solutionsinplastic.com/products.html)
I don't think we know that this is true at all. I think the enthusiast market is an important part of their business. This price wall feels like a real kick in the crotch since it was us at GH who created the market and developed the standard kits and concepts that people running buys today take for granted. There's a communal sense of ownership being violated here. We're being priced out of a process that we originated and are getting corralled into accepting middlemen who were originally sold as just a convenience.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:01:49
I'm confused. What does owning a mold do for me? If I want to guarantee a good price, I need to own the injection molding machines right? If I just own the mold, then I'm still at the mercy of my supplier correct?
I'm not simply talking about paying for a mold that SP holds. I'm talking about the community having the molds physically. The molds can be submitted for use to a manufacturer other than SP for producing keycaps at pricing more advantageous to the community.
That or the community foots the bill for not only the molds but the injection molding machine(s) to produce the caps. Though this is a far more pricey idea with even older, used, units going for $10,000 USD or more.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:03:20
I'm confused. What does owning a mold do for me? If I want to guarantee a good price, I need to own the injection molding machines right? If I just own the mold, then I'm still at the mercy of my supplier correct?
I'm not simply talking about paying for a mold that SP holds. I'm talking about the community having the molds physically. The molds can be submitted for use to a manufacturer other than SP for producing keycaps at pricing more advantageous to the community.
That or the community foots the bill for not only the molds but the injection molding machine(s) to produce the caps. Though this is a far more pricey idea with even older, used, units going for $10,000 USD or more.
Gotcha, now I'm following you. Agreed.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:04:28
Yep, not that GH et al. haven't helped butter their bread, but I have a feeling the MK community is a drop in the bucket for them.
http://www.solutionsinplastic.com/products.html (http://www.solutionsinplastic.com/products.html)
I don't think we know that this is true at all. I think the enthusiast market is an important part of their business. This price wall feels like a real kick in the crotch since it was us at GH who created the market and developed the standard kits and concepts that people running buys today take for granted. There's a communal sense of ownership being violated here. We're being priced out of a process that we originated and being corralled into accepting middlemen who were originally sold as just a convenience.
ty based moderator
Post by: Homenubbie on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:12:53
I'm confused. What does owning a mold do for me? If I want to guarantee a good price, I need to own the injection molding machines right? If I just own the mold, then I'm still at the mercy of my supplier correct?
I'm not simply talking about paying for a mold that SP holds. I'm talking about the community having the molds physically. The molds can be submitted for use to a manufacturer other than SP for producing keycaps at pricing more advantageous to the community.
That or the community foots the bill for not only the molds but the injection molding machine(s) to produce the caps. Though this is a far more pricey idea with even older, used, units going for $10,000 USD or more.
We can call it Geek Plastics!
Post by: Ail on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:20:14
Yep, not that GH et al. haven't helped butter their bread, but I have a feeling the MK community is a drop in the bucket for them.
http://www.solutionsinplastic.com/products.html (http://www.solutionsinplastic.com/products.html)
I don't think we know that this is true at all. I think the enthusiast market is an important part of their business. This price wall feels like a real kick in the crotch since it was us at GH who created the market and developed the standard kits and concepts that people running buys today take for granted. There's a communal sense of ownership being violated here. We're being priced out of a process that we originated and are getting corralled into accepting middlemen who were originally sold as just a convenience.
I don't disagree with any of this, and you're right, we don't know that for sure. It just wouldn't surprise me is all.
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:20:56
This would be heard/read better over on their official vendor board.
Indeed this a a big eff you. At the end of the day I think they would just plain out like working things out with an official platforms instead of individuals. No matter our history with them. Usually things over on the professional sector are more streamlined. I think they want to take their business model in that direction (even though they have PMK).
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:34:34
Yep, not that GH et al. haven't helped butter their bread, but I have a feeling the MK community is a drop in the bucket for them.
http://www.solutionsinplastic.com/products.html (http://www.solutionsinplastic.com/products.html)
I don't think we know that this is true at all. I think the enthusiast market is an important part of their business. This price wall feels like a real kick in the crotch since it was us at GH who created the market and developed the standard kits and concepts that people running buys today take for granted. There's a communal sense of ownership being violated here. We're being priced out of a process that we originated and are getting corralled into accepting middlemen who were originally sold as just a convenience.
This is true for the SA family, but doesn't acknowledge the fact that SA production is dwarfed by SP's core business. SA is a profile that would have languished along with discarded spherical profiles like SS were it not for the mech keyboard community giving it life. But it is still a tiny sideline revenue stream that in some ways is almost more hassle than it is worth for them.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:39:03
I'm confused. What does owning a mold do for me? If I want to guarantee a good price, I need to own the injection molding machines right? If I just own the mold, then I'm still at the mercy of my supplier correct?
I'm not simply talking about paying for a mold that SP holds. I'm talking about the community having the molds physically. The molds can be submitted for use to a manufacturer other than SP for producing keycaps at pricing more advantageous to the community.
That or the community foots the bill for not only the molds but the injection molding machine(s) to produce the caps. Though this is a far more pricey idea with even older, used, units going for $10,000 USD or more.
We can call it Geek Plastics!
I like it. Though that is a hell of a lot of money to get donated as $10,000 was a year or two ago when I checked on it more for toy making ideas and that was on the low end of pricing. Then we'd need people that knew how to use them properly and there's mold storage to consider (proper temperature / humidity for the molds).
I may have looked into this a bit out of curiosity... ;)
Matt3o had mentioned in a thread that he had someone in mind for producing PBT, spherical, high profile, dye-subbed caps in a DT thread and was getting scans done of some old IBM beam spring caps to use for that. If that project can get moving again, it might be able to include doubleshots in PBT or at least ABS to give us an alternative to SP SA caps if people are unhappy with SP pricing.
I'd love to see some additional producers of high profile spherical caps but there's some definite work and a fair bit of money involved to get there right now. If the GH community wants to consider going that route, perhaps we need to start running group buys with the goal of profits being put into the community fund for such a thing (though that's going to be more difficult with keycap sets given the increased SP pricing situation).
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:39:47
...tiny sideline revenue stream that in some ways is almost more hassle than it is worth for them.
This is the thing I just said I don't think we know for sure. If we were an insignificant part of their business I don't see them bothering to put together something like PMK.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:41:11
https://www.reddit.com/r/keyboardcirclejerk/comments/42uf1x/flatline_flatlines_due_to_rmk/
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:52:05
hey guys stop hating on SP this is all reddit's doing! /sLiterally anytime GH has an inch of give he says something. But, when we produce so many great ideas and contributions to the community he is silent. It's comical. I'm glad I stayed here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/keyboardcirclejerk/comments/42uf1x/flatline_flatlines_due_to_rmk/
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:54:44
...tiny sideline revenue stream that in some ways is almost more hassle than it is worth for them.
This is the thing I just said I don't think we know for sure. If we were an insignificant part of their business I don't see them bothering to put together something like PMK.
The PMK system may be easier for them. They determine what to produce from the sets they've already produced. They put them into production when it suits them. They control every bit of the process. We simply put sets on our PMK wishlist and hope for the best.
Post by: skaloola on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:57:44
wouldn't that make more sense than SP saying "HOLD ONTO YOUR MONEY GUIYZ, WE DONT WANT TO HURT A BRAZILLIAN TEENAGERS FEELINGS!"
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:59:25
http://www.massdrop.community/mechkeys/troubled-minds/
If we take a look here at a set run recently which should have been after their supposed price increase, Base kit + ISO + nonstandard + numpad = $150.96 at 100 MOQ (which not every kit even met that MOQ, some of the numbers are abysmal)
That includes Massdrop + designer mark ups in pricing, has significantly more keys involved than my all in 1, has kits split up, and even custom legends novelty and dyesub which cost $45 each, AND includes shipping costs to Massdrop.
The quote I was given from SP was the following:
25 sets $237.61 per set
50 sets $171.32 per set
75 sets $149.23 per set
100 sets $138.18 per set
150 sets $127.13 per set
200 sets $121.61 per set
250 sets $118.29 per set
The set I'm quoting is 138 keys with 2 space bars and 2 blanks, no custom legends, and does not include ANY additional fees, not even shipping to our distributor and then shipping to you guys.
Yet both of our sets are $1/key at 100 MOQ
Hm..........
So dusk was $169 for 130 keys split into 4 different kits, they got it even worse.
Official response was
"Sorry I wasn't clear - Massdrop gets a larger discount because of the overall volume that they purchase from us. We use the same price formula and the same set volume discount scale, Massdrop just has earned a larger discount."
So basically all these GB's we've run giving them money all these years earns us a big **** you.
those price points look about right to me. you're offering one giant kit.. for reference check out Round5/6/a/b/c/whateverthe****'s pricing and the its quantities.
wouldn't that make more sense than SP saying "HOLD ONTO YOUR MONEY GUIYZ, WE DONT WANT TO HURT A BRAZILLIAN TEENAGERS FEELINGS!"
I have the round 6 pricing and have accounted for this. You realize splitting up to to different kits makes it cost more right? Hack'd by Geeks was $110~ for 150 keys, and they explicitly said they will not be offering that pricing anymore which is fine. Did you look at the Troubled Minds set? Or read the post at all which explains it?
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 26 January 2016, 17:59:56
The PMK system may be easier for them. They determine what to produce from the sets they've already produced. They put them into production when it suits them. They control every bit of the process. We simply put sets on our PMK wishlist and hope for the best.
Yeah I know how it works. :p
What I'm saying is that they wouldn't have bothered creating the PMK system if the enthusiast community wasn't a worthwhile part of their business.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 18:03:47
Apologies for taking this off topic again, but I just wanted to clarify that I was talking about SP here, not you baldgye.Anyway, GG alienating the source of most of the good designs.But I didn't alienate anyone who doesn't already dislike me wtf I can barely run a bath let alone a GB
Anyway, the real shocker here is not that a corporation with capital holds all the cards against our community (because duh), but that they would turn their back on the very community that grew with them over the last however many years. That just plain sucks.
And yeah, they still have all the cards after I just said that. I didn't change anything. But now I can rest easy knowing that my wallet will be a little better off not having to chase any SA sets from now on. :)
Goodbye SP, it was fun! :thumb:
Post by: Michael on Tue, 26 January 2016, 18:21:58
Apologies for taking this off topic again, but I just wanted to clarify that I was talking about SP here, not you baldgye.Anyway, GG alienating the source of most of the good designs.But I didn't alienate anyone who doesn't already dislike me wtf I can barely run a bath let alone a GB
Anyway, the real shocker here is not that a corporation with capital holds all the cards against our community (because duh), but that they would turn their back on the very community that grew with them over the last however many years. That just plain sucks.
And yeah, they still have all the cards after I just said that. I didn't change anything. But now I can rest easy knowing that my wallet will be a little better off not having to chase any SA sets from now on. :)
Goodbye SP, it was fun! :thumb:
So much this. SP and PMK would be jack without GH/rmk/DT/etc. How much did this community alone invest in legends with SP?
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 18:32:24
The PMK system may be easier for them. They determine what to produce from the sets they've already produced. They put them into production when it suits them. They control every bit of the process. We simply put sets on our PMK wishlist and hope for the best.
Yeah I know how it works. :p
What I'm saying is that they wouldn't have bothered creating the PMK system if the enthusiast community wasn't a worthwhile part of their business.
PMK feels more like an experiment in creating a webstore-like experience for custom keycaps than an important vehicle for a critical revenue stream. And if the experiment doesn't pan out (to SP's satisfaction), don't be too surprised to see it just disappear. If they were really serious about PMK they wouldn't offer "special discounts" to MassDrop, and all that business would just funnel straight to them without the middle man.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 18:37:47
The PMK system may be easier for them. They determine what to produce from the sets they've already produced. They put them into production when it suits them. They control every bit of the process. We simply put sets on our PMK wishlist and hope for the best.
Yeah I know how it works. :p
What I'm saying is that they wouldn't have bothered creating the PMK system if the enthusiast community wasn't a worthwhile part of their business.
PMK feels more like an experiment in creating a webstore-like experience for custom keycaps than an important vehicle for a critical revenue stream. And if the experiment doesn't pan out (to SP's satisfaction), don't be too surprised to see it just disappear. If they were really serious about PMK they wouldn't offer "special discounts" to MassDrop, and all that business would just funnel straight to them without the middle man.
I don't know if you were around when PMK was still active (is it back yet?), but it was incredibly clunky and not what I would call a "streamlined experience". I think they're leaning pretty heavily on MD for the web development side of things and backend support. But that's just my theory.
Post by: whmeltonjr on Tue, 26 January 2016, 18:39:03
Post by: Ail on Tue, 26 January 2016, 18:43:25
The PMK system may be easier for them. They determine what to produce from the sets they've already produced. They put them into production when it suits them. They control every bit of the process. We simply put sets on our PMK wishlist and hope for the best.
Yeah I know how it works. :p
What I'm saying is that they wouldn't have bothered creating the PMK system if the enthusiast community wasn't a worthwhile part of their business.
PMK feels more like an experiment in creating a webstore-like experience for custom keycaps than an important vehicle for a critical revenue stream. And if the experiment doesn't pan out (to SP's satisfaction), don't be too surprised to see it just disappear. If they were really serious about PMK they wouldn't offer "special discounts" to MassDrop, and all that business would just funnel straight to them without the middle man.
I don't know if you were around when PMK was still active (is it back yet?), but it was incredibly clunky and not what I would call a "streamlined experience". I think they're leaning pretty heavily on MD for the web development side of things and backend support. But that's just my theory.
It's better than the previous iteration, but still not the most intuitive experience. It's nice as a way to have access to key sets without waiting for a group buy, but seems to definitely be back burnered in favor of MD and other large group buys.
Post by: Ail on Tue, 26 January 2016, 18:44:51
Just got caught up on the last few pages. What a bummer. There were so many sets coming out this year that I wanted, but after the giant fack you from SP, I'll be skipping out. It's a shame to see a company turn its back on the very people that helped turn it in to what it is today.
Same. I was in for my first set of SA sphericals, but I backed out and I'm just going to wait and see what happens. The good news is I am $160 richer than I was a few hours ago.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 18:46:09
I am discussing with people as to what to do and see if we can make something happen, but that won't be until pulse r2 is done anyway
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 18:47:03
Apologies for taking this off topic again, but I just wanted to clarify that I was talking about SP here, not you baldgye.Anyway, GG alienating the source of most of the good designs.But I didn't alienate anyone who doesn't already dislike me wtf I can barely run a bath let alone a GB
Anyway, the real shocker here is not that a corporation with capital holds all the cards against our community (because duh), but that they would turn their back on the very community that grew with them over the last however many years. That just plain sucks.
And yeah, they still have all the cards after I just said that. I didn't change anything. But now I can rest easy knowing that my wallet will be a little better off not having to chase any SA sets from now on. :)
Goodbye SP, it was fun! :thumb:
So much this. SP and PMK would be jack without GH/rmk/DT/etc. How much did this community alone invest in legends with SP?
Let's be honest here. Nobody "invested" in, for instance, the Fallout novelty legends to help SP's bottom line (or their future as a business enterprise). They did so in order to have those keycaps adorn their keyboards, and no other reason.
We are all customers, not investors. Patting ourselves on the back--and expecting special treatment--for simply playing our role in an ordinary exchange of commerce strikes me as rather silly.
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 26 January 2016, 19:01:40
PMK feels more like an experiment in creating a webstore-like experience for custom keycaps than an important vehicle for a critical revenue stream. And if the experiment doesn't pan out (to SP's satisfaction), don't be too surprised to see it just disappear. If they were really serious about PMK they wouldn't offer "special discounts" to MassDrop, and all that business would just funnel straight to them without the middle man.
Literally all I'm saying is that they cared enough to create PMK, and that is evidence that they care about us as a market, i.e., we are not a worthless drop in their gigantic corporate bucket.
Let's be honest here. Nobody "invested" in, for instance, the Fallout novelty legends to help SP's bottom line (or their future as a business enterprise). They did so in order to have those keycaps adorn their keyboards, and no other reason.
We are all customers, not investors. Patting ourselves on the back--and expecting special treatment--for simply playing our role in an ordinary exchange of commerce strikes me as rather silly.
I personally have had years of interactions with SP and Melissa in particular. It is in fact personal because I care about this hobby and SP is actually a small enough endeavor (they only have a few employees) that it hasn't usually felt like interacting with Plastico Megacorp. So take your snide observations about how silly and predictable we all are and **** off.
Post by: Michael on Tue, 26 January 2016, 19:05:22
Apologies for taking this off topic again, but I just wanted to clarify that I was talking about SP here, not you baldgye.Anyway, GG alienating the source of most of the good designs.But I didn't alienate anyone who doesn't already dislike me wtf I can barely run a bath let alone a GB
Anyway, the real shocker here is not that a corporation with capital holds all the cards against our community (because duh), but that they would turn their back on the very community that grew with them over the last however many years. That just plain sucks.
And yeah, they still have all the cards after I just said that. I didn't change anything. But now I can rest easy knowing that my wallet will be a little better off not having to chase any SA sets from now on. :)
Goodbye SP, it was fun! :thumb:
So much this. SP and PMK would be jack without GH/rmk/DT/etc. How much did this community alone invest in legends with SP?
Let's be honest here. Nobody "invested" in, for instance, the Fallout novelty legends to help SP's bottom line (or their future as a business enterprise). They did so in order to have those keycaps adorn their keyboards, and no other reason.
We are all customers, not investors. Patting ourselves on the back--and expecting special treatment--for simply playing our role in an ordinary exchange of commerce strikes me as rather silly.
Nobody is patting themselves on the back, it's just a simple matter of perspective. If a group of customers contributes time and money into helping a company provide more
options and better sets to ALL of it's customers, then yes, I do believe a fair amount of consideration should be given to that group when it comes to not screwing them over
on price points just because they don't dump out mass amounts of MEH sets every month.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 19:12:15
The PMK system may be easier for them. They determine what to produce from the sets they've already produced. They put them into production when it suits them. They control every bit of the process. We simply put sets on our PMK wishlist and hope for the best.
Yeah I know how it works. :p
What I'm saying is that they wouldn't have bothered creating the PMK system if the enthusiast community wasn't a worthwhile part of their business.
PMK feels more like an experiment in creating a webstore-like experience for custom keycaps than an important vehicle for a critical revenue stream. And if the experiment doesn't pan out (to SP's satisfaction), don't be too surprised to see it just disappear. If they were really serious about PMK they wouldn't offer "special discounts" to MassDrop, and all that business would just funnel straight to them without the middle man.
I don't know if you were around when PMK was still active (is it back yet?), but it was incredibly clunky and not what I would call a "streamlined experience". I think they're leaning pretty heavily on MD for the web development side of things and backend support. But that's just my theory.
It's better than the previous iteration, but still not the most intuitive experience. It's nice as a way to have access to key sets without waiting for a group buy, but seems to definitely be back burnered in favor of MD and other large group buys.
SA profile production is at capacity right now. Even then, they do seem to have stuff lined up for PMK as mentioned in the SP forum. While they're definitely not putting their focus on PMK, they're also not going to turn down lots of orders coming in through MassDrop and 7bit.
I suspect they will increase focus in PMK once the current onslaught of SA sets goes through. The thing there is, there are more in various IC stages right now so it's looking as if SA production will be very busy through 2016 if a few more of these sets go through to become successful group buys.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 19:29:30
If I'm not mistaken, it is possible to submit legend designs to SP and pay for the exclusive rights to keycaps manufactured with those legends. I imagine the price for proprietary legend designs is steep. I also imagine that not a single community design ever paid for that, which means that despite feeling like owners of the design, you really aren't. You didn't pay for that, and as a consequence anyone is theoretically "free" to use those legends even though they didn't design them. In a sense, you didn't "invest" in SP's legend inventory, you merely failed to lock up proprietary rights to your own designs.
Is that fair? That's an excellent question, and one which designers like Oobly have been exploring with considerable diligence lately. It certainly feels unfair, but as far as I can tell everyone who ever had a design produced signed on the proverbial dotted line and accepted those terms.
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Tue, 26 January 2016, 19:35:22
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 19:40:46
History matters. Community and relationships matter. The community is upset because that history and those relationships feel like they're being completely discarded in a giant **** you fashion.
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 26 January 2016, 19:43:21
I don't think of the community as silly or predictable. I do think it perhaps takes itself a bit too seriously, or misunderstands its role in the ongoing functioning of a business enterprise such as SP.
Your posts are coming across (to me at least) as if you do.
If I'm not mistaken, it is possible to submit legend designs to SP and pay for the exclusive rights to keycaps manufactured with those legends. I imagine the price for proprietary legend designs is steep. I also imagine that not a single community design ever paid for that, which means that despite feeling like owners of the design, you really aren't. You didn't pay for that, and as a consequence anyone is theoretically "free" to use those legends even though they didn't design them. In a sense, you didn't "invest" in SP's legend inventory, you merely failed to lock up proprietary rights to your own designs.
I'm not sure I'm following 100%, but there are lots of proprietary molds created and paid for by the community here. That is the norm for things like novelty keycaps that are shipped with larger sets. There have been entire keysets created from scratch which do in fact require the permission of the rights holder to use (talking about actual legends here, not colorways). The Sanctuary and Cherry Replica sets are the two I'm aware of. We've also spearheaded efforts to improve the SA profile's right shift key and create a center-stemmed stepped Caps Lock.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 19:54:09
zslane, instead of arguing with you, I think you really need to go back and re-examine the relationship SP has had with the community and what the community has done for SP. Two key areas are the Cherry legend project and SA profile. Without GH and DT, SA would not exist in the form it is today..
I agree completely. I don't think there's any doubt that GH and DT played a vital role in making the SA profile what it is today.
But I also think there is a misperception as to how important the SA profile (and our little community group buys) is to SP's overall business. I am convinced that the SA profile is way more important to us than it is to SP, on the whole. The revamp of PMK is, IMO, a bit of a red herring, at least in the sense that it is not really a way to gauge how community designs fit into the tapestry of SP's overall business.
If folks want to feel hurt because SP isn't treating them like business partners, that's their perogative. It just seems to me that boycotting the SA profile hurts us more than it hurts SP.
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 26 January 2016, 19:58:48
zslane, instead of arguing with you, I think you really need to go back and re-examine the relationship SP has had with the community and what the community has done for SP. Two key areas are the Cherry legend project and SA profile. Without GH and DT, SA would not exist in the form it is today..
I agree completely. I don't think there's any doubt that GH and DT played a vital role in making the SA profile what it is today.
But I also think there is a misperception as to how important the SA profile (and our little community group buys) is to SP's overall business. I am convinced that the SA profile is way more important to us than it is to SP, on the whole. The revamp of PMK is, IMO, a bit of a red herring, at least in the sense that it is not really a way to gauge how community designs fit into the tapestry of SP's overall business.
If folks want to feel hurt because SP isn't treating them like business partners, that's their perogative. It just seems to me that boycotting the SA profile hurts us more than it hurts SP.
How do you justify paying more since we are just not someone like Massdrop?
I get your point, but if it "hurts" me so be it. I don't like the idea of being swindled just because I'm not a part of the cool clique . Do you?
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:00:31
This has nothing to do with a given profile and boycotting a specific profile. It has everything to do with the fact that SP would not be where they are today without the community and, as such, the community is rightfully pissed off that they're being cast aside like last week's girlfriend.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:02:37
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:06:34
I mean, the notion of pricing according to quantity tiers is not a foreign one around here. MassDrop has the benefit of earning volume discounts, not on just each keyset project itself, but collectively on all the keyset projects for a year (or a quarter, or whatever). That probably earns them a whole other tier of discounts that no single project is likely to earn (unless your project is called Granite).
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:06:44
If the community wants treatment similar to MassDrop with regard to volume pricing, a singular entity would be the way to go. Volume can be far more easily monitored for discounts in this fashion and it still allows individuals to contribute.
Are you implying like a vendor? I'm not sure I understand. :confused:
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:12:44
If the community wants treatment similar to MassDrop with regard to volume pricing, a singular entity would be the way to go. Volume can be far more easily monitored for discounts in this fashion and it still allows individuals to contribute.
Are you implying like a vendor? I'm not sure I understand. :confused:
Essentially, yes. SP is a business that generally deals with other businesses. They give discounts to businesses that purchase in large volume. MassDrop is such a business. If the community wants to continue community-run group buys and still receive that same discount pricing that's now reserved for larger clients, SP is going to want a single entity to deal with for tracking purposes. Thus, a business or non-profit entity of some kind that can handle being the business face toward Signature Plastics.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:23:12
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:26:20
I mean, the notion of pricing according to quantity tiers is not a foreign one around here. MassDrop has the benefit of earning volume discounts, not on just each keyset project itself, but collectively on all the keyset projects for a year (or a quarter, or whatever). That probably earns them a whole other tier of discounts that no single project is likely to earn (unless your project is called Granite).
I think the F-U part is the artificial price increase for us, not the presumed discounts that Massdrop may or may not be getting. I've personally asked Melissa in the past about larger scale discounts like total keycaps ordered and she very flatly said "no, those don't exist". So it's not the same thing, it's a special deal that Massdrop no doubt negotiated, since that is literally their business model. Props to them, they do a good job for the most part. That part doesn't bother me. What would bother me is if we find out for sure (since this is all still speculation for the most part) that SP is artificially raising our costs in order to discourage us from working with them directly and shove us into using Massdrop or PMK. That is insulating and frustrating given that the entire enterprise of doing enthusiast group buys which Massdrop is now profiting from stems from enthusiasts working with SP directly.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:29:08
When you played a vital role in making a company what they are today to the point where they have impacted production lines that have months of booked production time in advance as a direct result of the community, I think it's fair to be upset to be told we're being overlooked for other people out there. Those are doors that would not have opened without GH and DT.
This has nothing to do with a given profile and boycotting a specific profile. It has everything to do with the fact that SP would not be where they are today without the community and, as such, the community is rightfully pissed off that they're being cast aside like last week's girlfriend.
Except that you do realize that SA != (all of) SP. There is a lot more going on at SP than what rolls off their SA machines. I'm not so sure that helping one relatively obscure profile (SA) grow in popularity can be equated with "making SP the company it is today."
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:29:39
Thank you for the update.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:34:51
What would bother me is if we find out for sure (since this is all still speculation for the most part) that SP is artificially raising our costs in order to discourage us from working with them directly and shove us into using Massdrop or PMK.
Okay, but a lot of people already seem bothered by it, as if it were established fact--without a reasonable explanation, mind you--and not just "still speculation". But if it turns out to be true, then I would certainly see your point. I'd just like to reserve judgment until we have all the relevent facts. Everyone is just so quick to leap to the worst conclusion rather than accept the possibility that there is a non-biased (business-oriented) explanation for all the price variations we see.
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:36:11
When you played a vital role in making a company what they are today to the point where they have impacted production lines that have months of booked production time in advance as a direct result of the community, I think it's fair to be upset to be told we're being overlooked for other people out there. Those are doors that would not have opened without GH and DT.
This has nothing to do with a given profile and boycotting a specific profile. It has everything to do with the fact that SP would not be where they are today without the community and, as such, the community is rightfully pissed off that they're being cast aside like last week's girlfriend.
Except that you do realize that SA != (all of) SP. There is a lot more going on at SP than what rolls off their SA machines. I'm not so sure that helping one relatively obscure profile (SA) grow in popularity can be equated with "making SP the company it is today."
SA doesn't even scratch the surface of all the successful GBs done on here though.
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:40:56
When you played a vital role in making a company what they are today to the point where they have impacted production lines that have months of booked production time in advance as a direct result of the community, I think it's fair to be upset to be told we're being overlooked for other people out there. Those are doors that would not have opened without GH and DT.
This has nothing to do with a given profile and boycotting a specific profile. It has everything to do with the fact that SP would not be where they are today without the community and, as such, the community is rightfully pissed off that they're being cast aside like last week's girlfriend.
Except that you do realize that SA != (all of) SP. There is a lot more going on at SP than what rolls off their SA machines. I'm not so sure that helping one relatively obscure profile (SA) grow in popularity can be equated with "making SP the company it is today."
OK, pardon the language, but are you deliberately trying to be this ****ing obtuse? SA is currently impacted, that largely sprang out of DCS being impacted and people wanting to try some other profiles. Without the communities, SP would not be rolling out DSA sets with the Infinity, they would not have done huge DCS runs, they would not have an impacted SA line. The company as a whole has benefitted from the community and are where they are today because the community brought them to the fore in the keyboard enthusiast community. Without GH and DT, they would be languishing and may have even folded by now. Our communities enabled them to have limited dead time on their machines, which, from my understanding, was an issue they were having until the communities started to do group buys.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:41:38
I mean, the notion of pricing according to quantity tiers is not a foreign one around here. MassDrop has the benefit of earning volume discounts, not on just each keyset project itself, but collectively on all the keyset projects for a year (or a quarter, or whatever). That probably earns them a whole other tier of discounts that no single project is likely to earn (unless your project is called Granite).
I think the F-U part is the artificial price increase for us, not the presumed discounts that Massdrop may or may not be getting. I've personally asked Melissa in the past about larger scale discounts like total keycaps ordered and she very flatly said "no, those don't exist". So it's not the same thing, it's a special deal that Massdrop no doubt negotiated, since that is literally their business model. Props to them, they do a good job for the most part. That part doesn't bother me. What would bother me is if we find out for sure (since this is all still speculation for the most part) that SP is artificially raising our costs in order to discourage us from working with them directly and shove us into using Massdrop or PMK. That is insulating and frustrating given that the entire enterprise of doing enthusiast group buys which Massdrop is now profiting from stems from enthusiasts working with SP directly.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if SP does want us to migrate toward MassDrop and PMK systems. It's easier on them and I really can't fault them for doing so.
Enthusiasts will still be working directly with SP on multiple aspects of caps and sets. The change is that the business transactions will be centered around PMK and MassDrop to simplify things from their end. Sure, MassDrop is profiting from this. They've created a simplified purchasing and distribution system for group buys. Personally, I'm happy they're here as I'd rather all group buys move to commercial entities than run privately. Most shoe GMTO group buys are handled as such already.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:50:29
Without GH and DT, they would be languishing and may have even folded by now.
If this is true, then it represents a complete dismantling of my understanding of SP as a business enterprise. That's not me being obtuse, it is me being utterly incredulous. And also a bit ignorant of the company's history and of its financial viability. You make it sound like they were on the verge of bankruptcy and that the custom keycap community practically saved it from the brink of death. If that is true, then consider me both astonished and sheepish for thinking SP had large commercial and industrial clients that represented the bulk of their revenue.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:53:20
Post by: Jedi on Tue, 26 January 2016, 21:05:40
Post by: tronbeaver on Tue, 26 January 2016, 21:48:14
Can we get back to the IC? This discussion belongs in the SP vendor forum no?
Done!
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79109.0
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 26 January 2016, 21:48:51
There are a few things that SP might be having to deal with that you guys may not realize. While I personally don't deal with the money side of things, I do understand how much labor costs to fix and install equipment. There are a number of factors OUTSIDE of SPs control that very will could be affecting costs.
- Their plastic supplier could have raised prices
- They could have just been faced with a MAJOR breakdown with their equipment
- They could be at the end or nearing the end of the life cycle for SA molds and having to get new molds made is expensive. Tolerance for injection molding is incredibly tight, tolerances cost money at exponential rates
- They could be faced with environmental restrictions that could be causing them to have to install new air scrubbing equipment. If you think this come cheap, think again. Plastic injection molding can produce a lot of bad stuff that needs to be filtered out before it can be released into the atmosphere. On top of the cost of the installation of this equipment, maintaining this equipment, the filter media, how much do you think it costs to dispose of the used media
- Cost for filter media and other possible hazardous waste may have gone up.
- They may also be increasing price as a function of supply/demand.
So before you guys grab pitch forks and light torches, please consider these other possibilities.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Tue, 26 January 2016, 21:53:10
Alright, I have read up on the last 4-ish pages. First off, the custom caps is likely no more than 15%-20% of their production numbers, we (custom keyboard community as a whole including GH, DT, rmk, MD) are expendable.
There are a few things that SP might be having to deal with that you guys may not realize. While I personally don't deal with the money side of things, I do understand how much labor costs to fix and install equipment. There are a number of factors OUTSIDE of SPs control that very will could be affecting costs.
- Their plastic supplier could have raised prices
- They could have just been faced with a MAJOR breakdown with their equipment
- They could be at the end or nearing the end of the life cycle for SA molds and having to get new molds made is expensive. Tolerance for injection molding is incredibly tight, tolerances cost money at exponential rates
- They could be faced with environmental restrictions that could be causing them to have to install new air scrubbing equipment. If you think this come cheap, think again. Plastic injection molding can produce a lot of bad stuff that needs to be filtered out before it can be released into the atmosphere. On top of the cost of the installation of this equipment, maintaining this equipment, the filter media, how much do you think it costs to dispose of the used media
- Cost for filter media and other possible hazardous waste may have gone up.
- They may also be increasing price as a function of supply/demand.
So before you guys grab pitch forks and light torches, please consider these other possibilities.
These are all very valid points honestly, and should at least be considered until more is known.
Post by: demik on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:01:04
If GH wants to be in control of pricing, then GH needs to buy its own tooling. Until then you are at the mercy of whomever has the machines to make your widgets. There have been murmurs here and there about a Chinese manufacturer stepping up to the spherical keycap plate, but so far that's all we have...murmurs. Nobody is ready to compete with SP, and so the de facto monopoly reigns supreme.
GH did pay for a fair bit of tooling for SP, including working with them and sharing knowledge on correcting tooling and molds. Maybe GH just needs to tell SP that no one else can use their molds that they funded or provided the knowledge on how to correct.
so, have somebody do it?
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:03:20
If GH wants to be in control of pricing, then GH needs to buy its own tooling. Until then you are at the mercy of whomever has the machines to make your widgets. There have been murmurs here and there about a Chinese manufacturer stepping up to the spherical keycap plate, but so far that's all we have...murmurs. Nobody is ready to compete with SP, and so the de facto monopoly reigns supreme.
GH did pay for a fair bit of tooling for SP, including working with them and sharing knowledge on correcting tooling and molds. Maybe GH just needs to tell SP that no one else can use their molds that they funded or provided the knowledge on how to correct.
so, have somebody do it?
If that was not in the agreement when the funding was done, it simply won't happen. We FUNDED, we didn't buy from another source with specs for the molds to run on their equipment, ergo, GH does NOT own anything with regards to these molds.
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:06:29
Alright, I have read up on the last 4-ish pages. First off, the custom caps is likely no more than 15%-20% of their production numbers, we (custom keyboard community as a whole including GH, DT, rmk, MD) are expendable.
There are a few things that SP might be having to deal with that you guys may not realize. While I personally don't deal with the money side of things, I do understand how much labor costs to fix and install equipment. There are a number of factors OUTSIDE of SPs control that very will could be affecting costs.
- Their plastic supplier could have raised prices
- They could have just been faced with a MAJOR breakdown with their equipment
- They could be at the end or nearing the end of the life cycle for SA molds and having to get new molds made is expensive. Tolerance for injection molding is incredibly tight, tolerances cost money at exponential rates
- They could be faced with environmental restrictions that could be causing them to have to install new air scrubbing equipment. If you think this come cheap, think again. Plastic injection molding can produce a lot of bad stuff that needs to be filtered out before it can be released into the atmosphere. On top of the cost of the installation of this equipment, maintaining this equipment, the filter media, how much do you think it costs to dispose of the used media
- Cost for filter media and other possible hazardous waste may have gone up.
- They may also be increasing price as a function of supply/demand.
So before you guys grab pitch forks and light torches, please consider these other possibilities.
A friend of mine works at a tool and die shop, and has expressed similar information to me. Also, I used to work for a company that had a rather large manufacturing floor which included injection molding machines. The sheer cost of labor to setup machinery is very expensive. So every time they have to change out a machine from producing caps for a larger purchaser to SA for us, this costs them time.
The fact of the matter is that we do not know the true cause of the price increase. And until this information is shared with us, this conversation is entirely speculation and is pretty pointless without this information. This is an IC for a desirable colorway at an affordable price and if we want to keep both of those things at this time, we may need to explore other possibilities (profiles, manufacturers, etc.)
Post by: demik on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:06:38
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:11:05
Post by: Lepidus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:13:32
Alright, I have read up on the last 4-ish pages. First off, the custom caps is likely no more than 15%-20% of their production numbers, we (custom keyboard community as a whole including GH, DT, rmk, MD) are expendable.
There are a few things that SP might be having to deal with that you guys may not realize. While I personally don't deal with the money side of things, I do understand how much labor costs to fix and install equipment. There are a number of factors OUTSIDE of SPs control that very will could be affecting costs.
- Their plastic supplier could have raised prices
- They could have just been faced with a MAJOR breakdown with their equipment
- They could be at the end or nearing the end of the life cycle for SA molds and having to get new molds made is expensive. Tolerance for injection molding is incredibly tight, tolerances cost money at exponential rates
- They could be faced with environmental restrictions that could be causing them to have to install new air scrubbing equipment. If you think this come cheap, think again. Plastic injection molding can produce a lot of bad stuff that needs to be filtered out before it can be released into the atmosphere. On top of the cost of the installation of this equipment, maintaining this equipment, the filter media, how much do you think it costs to dispose of the used media
- Cost for filter media and other possible hazardous waste may have gone up.
- They may also be increasing price as a function of supply/demand.
So before you guys grab pitch forks and light torches, please consider these other possibilities.
Sure, there could be many reasons for the price increase. But why not for PMK Store and Massdrop buys?
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:17:18
Alright, I have read up on the last 4-ish pages. First off, the custom caps is likely no more than 15%-20% of their production numbers, we (custom keyboard community as a whole including GH, DT, rmk, MD) are expendable.
There are a few things that SP might be having to deal with that you guys may not realize. While I personally don't deal with the money side of things, I do understand how much labor costs to fix and install equipment. There are a number of factors OUTSIDE of SPs control that very will could be affecting costs.
- Their plastic supplier could have raised prices
- They could have just been faced with a MAJOR breakdown with their equipment
- They could be at the end or nearing the end of the life cycle for SA molds and having to get new molds made is expensive. Tolerance for injection molding is incredibly tight, tolerances cost money at exponential rates
- They could be faced with environmental restrictions that could be causing them to have to install new air scrubbing equipment. If you think this come cheap, think again. Plastic injection molding can produce a lot of bad stuff that needs to be filtered out before it can be released into the atmosphere. On top of the cost of the installation of this equipment, maintaining this equipment, the filter media, how much do you think it costs to dispose of the used media
- Cost for filter media and other possible hazardous waste may have gone up.
- They may also be increasing price as a function of supply/demand.
So before you guys grab pitch forks and light torches, please consider these other possibilities.
Sure, there could be many reasons for the price increase. But why not for PMK Store and Massdrop buys?
Very recent development that wasn't around when other stuff was quoted? They can't really raise a quote in the middle of the incoming orders. That would be like you going to a restaurant and they change the price after you order and expect you to pay the new price.
The reason MD gets the larger discount is due to the volume of caps produced between tooling changes. This is on top of being a legit business, not just a community of random people.
Post by: n__dles on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:18:13
This.If GH wants to be in control of pricing, then GH needs to buy its own tooling. Until then you are at the mercy of whomever has the machines to make your widgets. There have been murmurs here and there about a Chinese manufacturer stepping up to the spherical keycap plate, but so far that's all we have...murmurs. Nobody is ready to compete with SP, and so the de facto monopoly reigns supreme.
GH did pay for a fair bit of tooling for SP, including working with them and sharing knowledge on correcting tooling and molds. Maybe GH just needs to tell SP that no one else can use their molds that they funded or provided the knowledge on how to correct.
so, have somebody do it?
If that was not in the agreement when the funding was done, it simply won't happen. We FUNDED, we didn't buy from another source with specs for the molds to run on their equipment, ergo, GH does NOT own anything with regards to these molds.
If we lived in a world were GH had any rights to SP molds, your employer would also have rights to on job training and any other formation they paid for directly or indirectly. Would suck to have to pay a severance package when you left / give a % of future earnings to previous employers.
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:25:21
Post by: gadzkun on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:37:30
vote GMK Run for an exclusive keyset!!! B-)
Post by: gadzkun on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:37:55
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:38:48
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:39:03
SP is careful to maintain ownership and control over everything that goes into or comes out of their machines. What we pay for only entitles us to keycaps, not ownership rights. They wouldn't have it any other way and I doubt we'll see much change in this area outside of a few concessions to designers with regard to partial "ownership" of their designs if Oobly's efforts are successful.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:41:05
vote JTK RUN for an affordable and reasonable price!!! B-)
vote GMK Run for an exclusive keyset!!! B-)
I'm not familiar with GMK's group buy terms and conditions. In what way are their keysets "exclusive" where SP's are not?
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:42:21
vote JTK RUN for an affordable and reasonable price!!! B-)
vote GMK Run for an exclusive keyset!!! B-)
I'm not familiar with GMK's group buy terms and conditions. In what way are their keysets "exclusive" where SP's are not?
They bought Cherry Corps old tooling for caps. Proper thick Cherry profile.
Post by: Lepidus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:45:49
vote JTK RUN for an affordable and reasonable price!!! B-)
vote GMK Run for an exclusive keyset!!! B-)
I'm not familiar with GMK's group buy terms and conditions. In what way are their keysets "exclusive" where SP's are not?
If you hit MOQ once, probably nobody will hit again :^)
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:49:35
Post by: Steezus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:50:30
Does MassDrop run group buys for GMK sets? If so, wouldn't that be an effective way to reach those MOQ numbers that GMK is so infamous for?
Yes they do but it's not always successful, GMK Snes for example.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:54:31
I'm just trying to reach an understanding as to the most effective vehicle for seeing a GMK set reach its MOQ.
Post by: Steezus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:57:41
Is the prevailing belief that GMK SNES would have fared better had it been run somewhere else?
I'm just trying to reach an understanding as to the most effective vehicle for seeing a GMK set reach its MOQ.
Not necessarily but it was Massdrop's fault more than anything but that was because they ran the buy at the worst timing ever right after the holidays.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:58:39
Post by: n__dles on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:05:40
Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.Not calling you out, though I doubt it's accuracy. That means that every time that font is used someone has to authorize it. Who are those people?
Post by: f1xedgear on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:06:56
I believe it's hashbazAlso, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.Not calling you out, though I doubt it's accuracy. That means that every time that font is used someone has to authorize it. Who are those people?
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:08:05
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:16:52
Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.
Okay, right, I think that is part of SP's terms and conditions. However, if I'm not mistaken, those same terms and conditions also allow anyone else to provide font outline files and pay for their own set of Cherry replica font legend plates if they want to. In other words, SP won't allow someone else to use GH's plates (without GH's permission), but that doesn't preclude someone else from making the same effort and paying for the same exact result.
From what I can tell, however, the same Ts&Cs don't seem to apply to shell molds, because otherwise 7bit would outright own quite a few of them, would he not?
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:22:10
Is the prevailing belief that GMK SNES would have fared better had it been run somewhere else?
I'm just trying to reach an understanding as to the most effective vehicle for seeing a GMK set reach its MOQ.
GMK SNES had two problems. The first was the aforementioned choice of times to run the buy on the part of MassDrop. The second is that the MoQ was higher due to the use of custom colors (500 instead of 250).
MassDrop has run other GMK buys, though.
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:23:10
People keep asking for a GMK run which there is currently a GB going on right now that has Black and Cyan. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71507.msg1733109#msg1733109)
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:23:58
Is the prevailing belief that GMK SNES would have fared better had it been run somewhere else?
I'm just trying to reach an understanding as to the most effective vehicle for seeing a GMK set reach its MOQ.
GMK SNES had two problems. The first was the aforementioned choice of times to run the buy on the part of MassDrop. The second is that the MoQ was higher due to the use of custom colors (500 instead of 250).
MassDrop has run other GMK buys, though.
Triumph Adler and several run of modifiers.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:24:10
Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.
Okay, right, I think that is part of SP's terms and conditions. However, if I'm not mistaken, those same terms and conditions also allow anyone else to provide font outline files and pay for their own set of Cherry replica font legend plates if they want to. In other words, SP won't allow someone else to use GH's plates (without GH's permission), but that doesn't preclude someone else from making the same effort and paying for the same exact result.
From what I can tell, however, the same Ts&Cs don't seem to apply to shell molds, because otherwise 7bit would outright own quite a few of them, would he not?
This is the same logic used at the conception of this set which was originally an exact copy of pulse because mito claimed that no one else could run a r2. Once I put the IC up he went ahead and announced his r2 after explicitly saying it would never happen again. So instead all efforts were shifted to creating our own improved set.
Unfortunately SP isn't going to budge on this pricing and I won't be taking it to pmk or MD. I am looking at alternative avenues to get it produced but no one else is currently offering SA profile so it's a bit of a challenge. I don't really want to run the set in another profile but I'll look into it..
Thats the status of this IC, you guys are free to discuss your theories elsewhere but the ONLY official statement given from SP on the issue is that we don't get discounted affordable pricing, even if we hit moq, because we are not Massdrop.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:25:58
Post by: n__dles on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:28:00
"After the first GB, I'll let Melissa know that anyone is free to use these legends. Including other forums, including vendors." - hashbaz (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=28324.msg866040#msg866040)
It appears if anyone did own anyone rights they were given away. I doubt anyone ever did have rights, but I'm not a lawyer. Even if I were this is getting too pedantic and tangential, no more OT posts from me.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:32:06
Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.
Yeah I think that a lot of people commenting need to read up on the history before making such claims.
And Melvang you outlined a lot of great points about what leads to cost increases, but what you're forgetting is that a good business will forecast those costs and account for them in the price of the product. You don't realize "Oh crap! Our things break!" and quick boost your cost after ten years of business.
Resin costs increasing is probably the most reasonable point, but I already mentioned that resin isn't terribly expensive (again I don't know the scale at which they purchase), and an X% increase in material cost would still only equate to a <X% increase in finished product cost. Obviously I am not the be-all-end-all expert on this, but I do not think it's a major contributing factor.
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:32:52
Out of curiosity, why the aversion to MassDrop? If anything, it's a selling point for me.
Pulse2 is planning to run on there very very soon (allegedly). Besides some people want to run it on our home turf instead of through them.
In case anyone cares I made a more honest thread on SP's sub-forum which can be found here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.0).
Post by: gadzkun on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:33:52
vote JTK RUN for an affordable and reasonable price!!! B-)
vote GMK Run for an exclusive keyset!!! B-)
I'm not familiar with GMK's group buy terms and conditions. In what way are their keysets "exclusive" where SP's are not?
If you hit MOQ once, probably nobody will hit again :^)
THIS!!!
Does MassDrop run group buys for GMK sets? If so, wouldn't that be an effective way to reach those MOQ numbers that GMK is so infamous for?
Does MassDrop run group buys for GMK sets? If so, wouldn't that be an effective way to reach those MOQ numbers that GMK is so infamous for?
Yes they do but it's not always successful, GMK Snes for example.
if the keyset price just like GMK TA maybe it will easily hit MOQ
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:36:20
Out of curiosity, why the aversion to MassDrop? If anything, it's a selling point for me.Mostly because of their closed ecosystem. But also, because of the shipping fiasco with TA.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:38:27
That's true, but they could have been using much more raw material than expected. They were probably pricing SA the same as DCS, while using twice as much plastic. Someone eventually noticed the shortfall.Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.
Yeah I think that a lot of people commenting need to read up on the history before making such claims.
And Melvang you outlined a lot of great points about what leads to cost increases, but what you're forgetting is that a good business will forecast those costs and account for them in the price of the product. You don't realize "Oh crap! Our things break!" and quick boost your cost after ten years of business.
Resin costs increasing is probably the most reasonable point, but I already mentioned that resin isn't terribly expensive (again I don't know the scale at which they purchase), and an X% increase in material cost would still only equate to a <X% increase in finished product cost. Obviously I am not the be-all-end-all expert on this, but I do not think it's a major contributing factor.
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:41:26
That's true, but they could have been using much more raw material than expected. They were probably pricing SA the same as DCS, while using twice as much plastic. Someone eventually noticed the shortfall.Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.
Yeah I think that a lot of people commenting need to read up on the history before making such claims.
And Melvang you outlined a lot of great points about what leads to cost increases, but what you're forgetting is that a good business will forecast those costs and account for them in the price of the product. You don't realize "Oh crap! Our things break!" and quick boost your cost after ten years of business.
Resin costs increasing is probably the most reasonable point, but I already mentioned that resin isn't terribly expensive (again I don't know the scale at which they purchase), and an X% increase in material cost would still only equate to a <X% increase in finished product cost. Obviously I am not the be-all-end-all expert on this, but I do not think it's a major contributing factor.
Possible EPA fines, new plastics supplier, different plastics supplier for that particular color they weren't expecting? Could be a number of things.
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:45:28
Not calling you out, though I doubt it's accuracy. That means that every time that font is used someone has to authorize it. Who are those people?
I believe it's hashbaz
hash does
Yeah, I do actually own the rights to the Cherry legend molds. I have no idea what this means in actual legal terms, but in terms of SP policy it means that those molds can't be used without my authorization. Could I walk into SP and demand the physical molds? Probably not. But Melissa does check with me any time someone asks her to use the Cherry font. The only stipulation I have ever put on their use is that any new legends that are created that might reasonably be considered part of the Cherry font get contributed back to the set so that others can access them.
Okay, right, I think that is part of SP's terms and conditions. However, if I'm not mistaken, those same terms and conditions also allow anyone else to provide font outline files and pay for their own set of Cherry replica font legend plates if they want to. In other words, SP won't allow someone else to use GH's plates (without GH's permission), but that doesn't preclude someone else from making the same effort and paying for the same exact result.
You are correct that anyone else can pay for duplicate tooling and get the same look. I've shared the SVG files with plenty of people, so they are out there, and it's not actually that difficult to recreate them from scratch. It's about ownership of the physical molds, not the images themselves.
From what I can tell, however, the same Ts&Cs don't seem to apply to shell molds, because otherwise 7bit would outright own quite a few of them, would he not?
I'm not sure what you mean by shell molds. 7bit owns the legends that he originated in his GBs in the same way that I own the Cherry legends.
Too lazy to figure out how to properly quote this since it's locked.
"After the first GB, I'll let Melissa know that anyone is free to use these legends. Including other forums, including vendors." - hashbaz (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=28324.msg866040#msg866040)
It appears if anyone did own anyone rights they were given away. I doubt anyone ever did have rights, but I'm not a lawyer. Even if I were this is getting too pedantic and tangential, no more OT posts from me.
Like I said above, Melissa contacts me every so often and I talk to the GB runner and make sure they're on board with sharing new legends as appropriate (usually there aren't any). It's still very much in force. What I meant by this post was that I had no intention of limiting the Cherry font to just geekhack. At the time, there was no GMK and vintage Cherry keys were in very high demand. I wanted to make sure people knew that we considered the font to be usable by the entire enthusiast community.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:46:08
That's true, but they could have been using much more raw material than expected. They were probably pricing SA the same as DCS, while using twice as much plastic. Someone eventually noticed the shortfall.Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.
Yeah I think that a lot of people commenting need to read up on the history before making such claims.
And Melvang you outlined a lot of great points about what leads to cost increases, but what you're forgetting is that a good business will forecast those costs and account for them in the price of the product. You don't realize "Oh crap! Our things break!" and quick boost your cost after ten years of business.
Resin costs increasing is probably the most reasonable point, but I already mentioned that resin isn't terribly expensive (again I don't know the scale at which they purchase), and an X% increase in material cost would still only equate to a <X% increase in finished product cost. Obviously I am not the be-all-end-all expert on this, but I do not think it's a major contributing factor.
Possible EPA fines, new plastics supplier, different plastics supplier for that particular color they weren't expecting? Could be a number of things.
Yep. But still none of these explain the discrepancy between customers. :thumb:
Post by: zslane on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:55:26
From what I can tell, however, the same Ts&Cs don't seem to apply to shell molds, because otherwise 7bit would outright own quite a few of them, would he not?
I'm not sure what you mean by shell molds. 7bit owns the legends that he originated in his GBs in the same way that I own the Cherry legends.
I've read elsewhere that 7bit's previous group buys included funding to have profile molds fabricated for SA keys in sizes/rows that did not yet exist in SP's inventory. Those molds are very expensive (around $5k each), and SP seems to keep a very tight grip on them regardless of how they are paid for.
But I could be confusing things in my own mind. It could be that the only things he ever paid for were legend plates, and merely convinced SP to invest in the row molds but didn't fund their fabrication himself.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:58:18
From what I can tell, however, the same Ts&Cs don't seem to apply to shell molds, because otherwise 7bit would outright own quite a few of them, would he not?
I'm not sure what you mean by shell molds. 7bit owns the legends that he originated in his GBs in the same way that I own the Cherry legends.
I've read elsewhere that 7bit's previous group buys included funding to have profile molds fabricated for SA keys in sizes/rows that did not yet exist in SP's inventory. Those molds are very expensive (around $5k each), and SP seems to keep a very tight grip on them regardless of how they are paid for.
I don't think that SP would allow the community to own those molds, which is part of the reason that the community did not directly fund the Row 4 Shift molds for SA sets. But I am not 100% certain on all the factors that played into that.
I'm curious, zslane, what's your experience related to this? Have you worked in the industry, a similar industry, etc?
Post by: Homenubbie on Wed, 27 January 2016, 00:15:22
Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.
Yeah I think that a lot of people commenting need to read up on the history before making such claims.
And Melvang you outlined a lot of great points about what leads to cost increases, but what you're forgetting is that a good business will forecast those costs and account for them in the price of the product. You don't realize "Oh crap! Our things break!" and quick boost your cost after ten years of business.
Resin costs increasing is probably the most reasonable point, but I already mentioned that resin isn't terribly expensive (again I don't know the scale at which they purchase), and an X% increase in material cost would still only equate to a <X% increase in finished product cost. Obviously I am not the be-all-end-all expert on this, but I do not think it's a major contributing factor.
Oil prices are at new lows. Doubt plastic prices are rising.
Post by: zslane on Wed, 27 January 2016, 00:31:03
I don't think that SP would allow the community to own those molds, which is part of the reason that the community did not directly fund the Row 4 Shift molds for SA sets. But I am not 100% certain on all the factors that played into that.
I think you're 100% right about that, HM.
Quote
I'm curious, zslane, what's your experience related to this? Have you worked in the industry, a similar industry, etc?
No. My direct experience in this matter began with my own efforts to get the SHIF T legend corrected last year. I created a corrected legend file, sent it to SP and had samples made for 2.75u DSA Shift keys to test the process, which everyone on DT assured me SP would screw up. The samples were perfect, but ultimately pointless as SP then decided to correct them on their own.
This coincided with closely following the various efforts to get the row 4 shift molds funded (including independent efforts to do so on my part via Melissa). Which coincided with helping 7bit create proper SVG definitions for his Space Cadet legends.
All of which has been in parallel with my current project to get an SA Dasher project off the ground (IC thread is forthcoming).
So while my experience does not reach into the deep recesses of custom keycap history, it at least has the virtue of being up-to-date with the issues (including the clarification of SP's terms and conditions and the illusion of ownership they grant to keycap designers and legend plate funders alike).
Post by: FrostyToast on Wed, 27 January 2016, 00:31:35
A 50% increase solely due to unaccounted production expenses seems hardly fair or believable.
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 27 January 2016, 00:49:15
That's true, but they could have been using much more raw material than expected. They were probably pricing SA the same as DCS, while using twice as much plastic. Someone eventually noticed the shortfall.Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.
Yeah I think that a lot of people commenting need to read up on the history before making such claims.
And Melvang you outlined a lot of great points about what leads to cost increases, but what you're forgetting is that a good business will forecast those costs and account for them in the price of the product. You don't realize "Oh crap! Our things break!" and quick boost your cost after ten years of business.
Resin costs increasing is probably the most reasonable point, but I already mentioned that resin isn't terribly expensive (again I don't know the scale at which they purchase), and an X% increase in material cost would still only equate to a <X% increase in finished product cost. Obviously I am not the be-all-end-all expert on this, but I do not think it's a major contributing factor.
Possible EPA fines, new plastics supplier, different plastics supplier for that particular color they weren't expecting? Could be a number of things.
Yep. But still none of these explain the discrepancy between customers. :thumb:
Right, that brings us back to volume buying via a single entity. That or, as was speculated, SP is trying to move all such group buys to MD / PMK rather than have individuals continue to run a number of group buys. While has a somewhat conspiracy theory feel to it, I can see where SP would want to streamline business and move the enthusiast ordering into MD/PMK.
Of course, this is still all speculation on our part. I'm curious to see an SA set go up on MassDrop to see what the pricing will be there.
Post by: zslane on Wed, 27 January 2016, 00:50:58
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 27 January 2016, 01:05:40
We shouldn't have long to wait for that. What's up next? Nantucket Selectric?
Seems like there are a few things in various stages. That, Keyboard & Co, Retroblight, and Earfbound come to mind without looking at the IC thread list and that's just for ones on GH. I believe PuLSE R2 is due Soon (TM) per MiTo's Reddit thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/42ro8o/whitefox_pulse_r2_dropping_very_soon/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/42ro8o/whitefox_pulse_r2_dropping_very_soon/)
Post by: n__dles on Wed, 27 January 2016, 02:45:41
Yeah, I do actually own the rights to the Cherry legend molds. I have no idea what this means in actual legal terms, but in terms of SP policy it means that those molds can't be used without my authorization. Could I walk into SP and demand the physical molds? Probably notYeah I suck at communicating, if it wasn't clear I meant legal right. When I started posting people we're wanting to stick it to SP and get the physical mold / prevent SP themselves from using it.
Melissa does check with me any time someone asks her to use the Cherry font. The only stipulation I have ever put on their use is that any new legends that are created that might reasonably be considered part of the Cherry font get contributed back to the set so that others can access them.Thanks for doing that.
no more OT posts from me.uups
Post by: MAR82 on Wed, 27 January 2016, 07:04:31
Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.
Okay, right, I think that is part of SP's terms and conditions. However, if I'm not mistaken, those same terms and conditions also allow anyone else to provide font outline files and pay for their own set of Cherry replica font legend plates if they want to. In other words, SP won't allow someone else to use GH's plates (without GH's permission), but that doesn't preclude someone else from making the same effort and paying for the same exact result.
From what I can tell, however, the same Ts&Cs don't seem to apply to shell molds, because otherwise 7bit would outright own quite a few of them, would he not?
This is the same logic used at the conception of this set which was originally an exact copy of pulse because mito claimed that no one else could run a r2. Once I put the IC up he went ahead and announced his r2 after explicitly saying it would never happen again. So instead all efforts were shifted to creating our own improved set.
Unfortunately SP isn't going to budge on this pricing and I won't be taking it to pmk or MD. I am looking at alternative avenues to get it produced but no one else is currently offering SA profile so it's a bit of a challenge. I don't really want to run the set in another profile but I'll look into it..
Thats the status of this IC, you guys are free to discuss your theories elsewhere but the ONLY official statement given from SP on the issue is that we don't get discounted affordable pricing, even if we hit moq, because we are not Massdrop.
I know that SP used to be part of the Comptec group, and I also know that Comptec is still around in France with some of the same molds.
Would it be crazy to try to contact them or another old Comptec manufacturer for a price on the set?
Link to the French Comptec: http://comptec.fr/ang/presentation.htm
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 27 January 2016, 08:31:02
I know that SP used to be part of the Comptec group, and I also know that Comptec is still around in France with some of the same molds.
Would it be crazy to try to contact them or another old Comptec manufacturer for a price on the set?
Link to the French Comptec: http://comptec.fr/ang/presentation.htm
Hmmm, interesting. I didn't know Comptec was still around in France. Somehow I doubt they have sculpted SA molds, but maybe they have the uniform profile (Row 3) SA molds. Looks like they have DSA for sure, and most likely DCS.
Post by: KoalaKaiser on Wed, 27 January 2016, 11:20:58
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 27 January 2016, 12:14:43
Out of curiosity, why the aversion to MassDrop? If anything, it's a selling point for me.Mostly because of their closed ecosystem. But also, because of the shipping fiasco with TA.
Perhaps, because I haven't had issue with MassDrop yet, I'm not seeing the closed ecosystem issue. Would it be possible to elaborate on this?
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 27 January 2016, 12:19:00
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 27 January 2016, 12:22:23
Out of curiosity, why the aversion to MassDrop? If anything, it's a selling point for me.Mostly because of their closed ecosystem. But also, because of the shipping fiasco with TA.
Perhaps, because I haven't had issue with MassDrop yet, I'm not seeing the closed ecosystem issue. Would it be possible to elaborate on this?
The TA shipping wasn't fun at all. The first time out, I'm cool with it being their fault as much as GMKs fault. People getting bad replacement sets was pretty cringe worthy though. That part should have been fixed by MD of course, and eventually was.
Still, I am more prone to use MD because when **** does hit the fan, like TA, they generally speaking handled getting everyone refunded or squared away much quicker than a community run buy would have. You alway shave the comfort knowing you can get a refund from them if you do have issues with what you get, which often isnt the case otherwise because that money is just gone.
They also seem to try to find and make cool things for the community in my experience as well. Yeah, some stuff on there is just ****, but others are quite nice. Haata has mentioned in one of the interviews with him that they paid for a lot of the development and samples of things like the Infinity 60% and ErgoDox Infinity, things that otherwise would have been very hard to fund/produce.
So there are definitely ups and downs, of course, but I definitely don't side hard left or right on the matter and just see them as a company trying to make money, but also a company that at least tries to interact with the community much more than companies in other hobbies I've been part of. End of the day, yes, they are trying to make money. I don't really have an issue with that though, they are a company, not a community member after all.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 27 January 2016, 12:33:10
This thread seems to be quite popular.
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 27 January 2016, 12:37:10
Where are these guests coming from :eek:
This thread seems to be quite popular.
Reddit, maybe. Ripster linked it there.
Post by: kiwi99 on Wed, 27 January 2016, 13:16:12
Post by: zslane on Wed, 27 January 2016, 13:42:06
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 15:14:18
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 27 January 2016, 15:17:12
If this moves to the french based company just for cheaper prices, I am out.
I'll buy one then even though I had no plan to as I hate the profile.
I'm all for American products, but not when a company decides to screw you in favor of another despite history.
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 27 January 2016, 15:18:18
If this moves to the french based company just for cheaper prices, I am out.
lmao, cut the French some slack, they gave you a big statue
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 15:28:41
If this moves to the french based company just for cheaper prices, I am out.
lmao, cut the French some slack, they gave you a big statue
I have no beef with the french. It is the practice of out sourcing manufacturing job overseas just to get cheap labor/cheaper product that I have an issue with. Happens enough the way it is. I just choose not to support the practice.
Has NY other SA sets been quoted since this one? It could simply be a matter of SP bringing up prices in an attempt to balance supply/demand. Has anyone even inquired to SP regarding the sudden price hike?
Post by: Ail on Wed, 27 January 2016, 16:10:55
If this moves to the french based company just for cheaper prices, I am out.
lmao, cut the French some slack, they gave you a big statue
I have no beef with the french. It is the practice of out sourcing manufacturing job overseas just to get cheap labor/cheaper product that I have an issue with. Happens enough the way it is. I just choose not to support the practice.
Has NY other SA sets been quoted since this one? It could simply be a matter of SP bringing up prices in an attempt to balance supply/demand. Has anyone even inquired to SP regarding the sudden price hike?
You assume the French company could not provide an equally well made product and that they do not pay their laborers an acceptable wage. I understand only wanting to buy from an American company in support of American made products, but it's not like getting SA profile sets made in France would be done so that GH could then get them cheaper and hike their prices during a group buy for their own profit. It would be done so the community as a whole was not being subjected to the stranglehold SP currently has over the market and getting the same product at a better, more reasonable price. If you support capitalism and the American economy then surely you support healthy competition and loathe a monopoly?
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 16:50:21
If this moves to the french based company just for cheaper prices, I am out.
lmao, cut the French some slack, they gave you a big statue
I have no beef with the french. It is the practice of out sourcing manufacturing job overseas just to get cheap labor/cheaper product that I have an issue with. Happens enough the way it is. I just choose not to support the practice.
Has NY other SA sets been quoted since this one? It could simply be a matter of SP bringing up prices in an attempt to balance supply/demand. Has anyone even inquired to SP regarding the sudden price hike?
You assume the French company could not provide an equally well made product and that they do not pay their laborers an acceptable wage. I understand only wanting to buy from an American company in support of American made products, but it's not like getting SA profile sets made in France would be done so that GH could then get them cheaper and hike their prices during a group buy for their own profit. It would be done so the community as a whole was not being subjected to the stranglehold SP currently has over the market and getting the same product at a better, more reasonable price. If you support capitalism and the American economy then surely you support healthy competition and loathe a monopoly?
Did I ever once mention anything regarding the quality of products made in France, no. I simply stated I don't agree with outsourcing production to another country or business in another country for the sake of cheaper cost of production. My comment if "cheaper product" was not any jab at quality, simply total cost of production. What I am getting at is we DO NOT KNOW why SP has raised their prices.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 27 January 2016, 17:13:42
Don't worry fam cherry cap is the bestShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ciFD99p.png)
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 17:34:27
Even if SP did raise the rates out of corporate greed, at least they kept production here and not outsourcing. It isn't like they are the only injection molding company in the US.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 27 January 2016, 17:38:21
Post by: LXXXIX on Wed, 27 January 2016, 18:49:55
Guys just join the discussion. What are you afraid of? :P
Post by: braidn on Wed, 27 January 2016, 19:21:16
In all seriousness I would pay the premium if we had these made. And I would pay the same premium if it was all Row3 French made. I also feel like this entire head showcases that SP has a strong grip on the community which I would love to break somehow.
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 27 January 2016, 19:50:11
I think someone really senior like hashbaz, nubbs or jd should personally call them and discuss the pricing with them - GH has provided them with more volume and revenue over the past few years than Massdrop has.
Just because the orders coming from Geekhack are coming from individuals and not some up and coming angel investment in no way means that we shouldn't get the same pricing as them
Post by: zslane on Wed, 27 January 2016, 19:58:26
In general I think we need more than one source of spherical keycaps. But I am not fond of seeing the business race off to some off-shore manufacturer who is going to treat its workers like slaves. On the other hand, if there is a French company out there that can deliver high-quality spherical keycaps in the range of colors SP offers, and accepts custom legend orders, and can deliver in the same or faster time-frame, then I would certainly support them with my business. But that's an awful lot of ifs...
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 27 January 2016, 20:07:50
Competition is good for everyone, as long as it is fair competition. If someone other than SP can deliver a product of equal (or better) quality at a lower price, then they deserve the business. It could force SP to adjust their prices. Or it could force SP to lay off staff in order to remain cost competitive with a foreign company that woefully underpays its workforce. For some buyers, such circumstances matter. For others it only comes down to getting the lowest price no matter how that is achieved.
In general I think we need more than one source of spherical keycaps. But I am not fond of seeing the business race off to some off-shore manufacturer who is going to treat its workers like slaves. On the other hand, if there is a French company out there that can deliver high-quality spherical keycaps in the range of colors SP offers, and accepts custom legend orders, and can deliver in the same or faster time-frame, then I would certainly support them with my business. But that's an awful lot of ifs...
yeah good luck with that
maybe if you send a $50k to JTK you might get going with the shape of SA
Then you can pay a few hundred dollars for each legend to be remade one by one
Post by: LXXXIX on Wed, 27 January 2016, 20:13:28
Maybe he can talk with Bunny and possibly set this up through JTK?
Post by: zslane on Wed, 27 January 2016, 20:26:34
Just because the orders coming from Geekhack are coming from individuals and not some up and coming angel investment in no way means that we shouldn't get the same pricing as them
Sounds like you want SP to grant GeekHack a lifetime achievement award in the form of perpetual discounts equal to those which it negotiates with MassDrop. Good luck with that.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 27 January 2016, 20:29:56
Why does every post from you sound like you have a chip on your shoulder?Just because the orders coming from Geekhack are coming from individuals and not some up and coming angel investment in no way means that we shouldn't get the same pricing as them
Sounds like you want SP to grant GeekHack a lifetime achievement award in the form of perpetual discounts equal to those which it negotiates with MassDrop. Good luck with that.
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 27 January 2016, 20:31:41
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Wed, 27 January 2016, 20:33:31
Just because the orders coming from Geekhack are coming from individuals and not some up and coming angel investment in no way means that we shouldn't get the same pricing as them
Sounds like you want SP to grant GeekHack a lifetime achievement award in the form of perpetual discounts equal to those which it negotiates with MassDrop. Good luck with that.
Sounds like you you step away from the keyboard for a bit.
Post by: Floody on Wed, 27 January 2016, 20:38:48
Who hurt you?Just because the orders coming from Geekhack are coming from individuals and not some up and coming angel investment in no way means that we shouldn't get the same pricing as them
Sounds like you want SP to grant GeekHack a lifetime achievement award in the form of perpetual discounts equal to those which it negotiates with MassDrop. Good luck with that.
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Wed, 27 January 2016, 20:41:09
Just because the orders coming from Geekhack are coming from individuals and not some up and coming angel investment in no way means that we shouldn't get the same pricing as them
Sounds like you want SP to grant GeekHack a lifetime achievement award in the form of perpetual discounts equal to those which it negotiates with MassDrop. Good luck with that.
Bro...
If someone was able to negotiate with them that'd be cool, however they've already shown that they're not going to budge for me.
Have you contacted Massdrop to see if they could run the GB?
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 27 January 2016, 20:51:31
Bro... Whats wrong?Just because the orders coming from Geekhack are coming from individuals and not some up and coming angel investment in no way means that we shouldn't get the same pricing as them
Sounds like you want SP to grant GeekHack a lifetime achievement award in the form of perpetual discounts equal to those which it negotiates with MassDrop. Good luck with that.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 27 January 2016, 20:53:34
Post by: zslane on Wed, 27 January 2016, 20:53:54
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Wed, 27 January 2016, 20:56:00
I'm just saying that as unrealistic expectations go, asking SP for the same volume discounts that MassDrop gets is sort of a doozy.
Yes. Everyone got your message. Thank you for your input.
Post by: Burt Macklin on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:01:04
In all seriousness I would pay the premium if we had these made. And I would pay the same premium if it was all Row3 French made. I also feel like this entire head showcases that SP has a strong grip on the community which I would love to break somehow.
Yep, monopoly sucks.
I'd love to see someone else step in with SA caps, prefferably in Europe - high keyset prices and shipping (+import taxes on top) are usually pretty hard to swallow, if you're in EU.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:14:52
Yeah, honestly at this point, I think Massdrop would be the way to move this forward. Maybe if you contact whoever is in charge of keycap buys there, they would work with you. I think PMK would be out, because of PuLSE R2.
Massdrop is doing PuLSE R2, not PMK, so PMK would be the better bet for sure :thumb:
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:20:29
Yeah, honestly at this point, I think Massdrop would be the way to move this forward. Maybe if you contact whoever is in charge of keycap buys there, they would work with you. I think PMK would be out, because of PuLSE R2.
Massdrop is doing PuLSE R2, not PMK, so PMK would be the better bet for sure :thumb:
I thought Signature Plastics produces the keycaps for Massdrop? I also though Signature Plastics initially designed SA profile caps?
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:24:18
Yeah, honestly at this point, I think Massdrop would be the way to move this forward. Maybe if you contact whoever is in charge of keycap buys there, they would work with you. I think PMK would be out, because of PuLSE R2.
Massdrop is doing PuLSE R2, not PMK, so PMK would be the better bet for sure :thumb:
I thought Signature Plastics produces the keycaps for Massdrop? I also though Signature Plastics initially designed SA profile caps?
I think the details have been covered in the last 15 pages dude, let's not restart the conversation from square one.
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:30:49
Yeah, honestly at this point, I think Massdrop would be the way to move this forward. Maybe if you contact whoever is in charge of keycap buys there, they would work with you. I think PMK would be out, because of PuLSE R2.
Massdrop is doing PuLSE R2, not PMK, so PMK would be the better bet for sure :thumb:
I thought Signature Plastics produces the keycaps for Massdrop? I also though Signature Plastics initially designed SA profile caps?
I think the details have been covered in the last 15 pages dude, let's not restart the conversation from square one.
I'm not sure what you mean by that. People are stating that this should be run through Massdrop. That won't happen because Massdrop will already be running Pulse R2 and they have to reason to introduce an almost-identical set.
You can't go through Pimp My Keyboard because it's too expensive.
What choices are left? Foreign manufacturers? How do we know if they'll even take custom requests?
Post by: kiwi99 on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:35:28
Post by: Floody on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:42:23
I don't know how anyone would feel about this but what about the same colourway in a different profile? There is such an over saturation of nice SA sets already being it seems all that comes out of SP is SA and DSA, any reason DCS gets no love any more ?I've heard complaints that DCS is too thin from some users
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:42:52
I don't know how anyone would feel about this but what about the same colourway in a different profile? There is such an over saturation of nice SA sets already being it seems all that comes out of SP is SA and DSA, any reason DCS gets no love any more ?
Because GMK has drastically reduced MOQ, JTK is on scene know, and SP's DCS is very thin. If they would revisit the trend of caps right now and make new molds with the exact same outside shape and profile, but thicker, I am positive they would see a good amount more sales.
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:43:48
I don't know how anyone would feel about this but what about the same colourway in a different profile? There is such an over saturation of nice SA sets already being it seems all that comes out of SP is SA and DSA, any reason DCS gets no love any more ?I've heard complaints that DCS is too thin from some users
It's thin, shines quickly, and wears poorly.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:48:28
I don't know how anyone would feel about this but what about the same colourway in a different profile? There is such an over saturation of nice SA sets already being it seems all that comes out of SP is SA and DSA, any reason DCS gets no love any more ?
Because GMK has drastically reduced MOQ, JTK is on scene know, and SP's DCS is very thin. If they would revisit the trend of caps right now and make new molds with the exact same outside shape and profile, but thicker, I am positive they would see a good amount more sales.
Does anyone know if they still have the old WYSE molds? At least I think it was them (or a former parent company or such) that made those. If they offered those it would be a great option. Depending on the cost of course. :))
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:50:57
I don't know how anyone would feel about this but what about the same colourway in a different profile? There is such an over saturation of nice SA sets already being it seems all that comes out of SP is SA and DSA, any reason DCS gets no love any more ?
Because GMK has drastically reduced MOQ, JTK is on scene know, and SP's DCS is very thin. If they would revisit the trend of caps right now and make new molds with the exact same outside shape and profile, but thicker, I am positive they would see a good amount more sales.
Does anyone know if they still have the old WYSE molds? At least I think it was them (or a former parent company or such) that made those. If they offered those it would be a great option. Depending on the cost of course. :))
Last I heard they were "retired" or did not come with them in the acquisition.
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:53:21
I don't know how anyone would feel about this but what about the same colourway in a different profile? There is such an over saturation of nice SA sets already being it seems all that comes out of SP is SA and DSA, any reason DCS gets no love any more ?
Because GMK has drastically reduced MOQ, JTK is on scene know, and SP's DCS is very thin. If they would revisit the trend of caps right now and make new molds with the exact same outside shape and profile, but thicker, I am positive they would see a good amount more sales.
Does anyone know if they still have the old WYSE molds? At least I think it was them (or a former parent company or such) that made those. If they offered those it would be a great option. Depending on the cost of course. :))
Hasn't it been proven that SP didn't make caps for WYSE? Or was that the french one posted earlier?
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:57:01
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:06:51
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:09:20
I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:10:46
I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:13:10
I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
This may be, but it doesn't allow for other layouts such as Dvorak, Colemak, etc without purchasing extra keys.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:13:27
I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
Well it is the best profile so...
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:14:05
I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
Well it is the best profile so...
Pure opinion, not fact. Plus does GMK offer PBT?
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:14:19
I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
I love SA caps, but for all my "real" work I really do pretty much only use Cherry or Topre profile caps.
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:15:45
I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
I love SA caps, but for all my "real" work I really do pretty much only use Cherry or Topre profile caps.
I can't fault that, though personally I don't use a keyboard for any sort of money making, aside from possible logistics from hobby related income.
Post by: f1xedgear on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:16:18
Well, sculpted SA is no different...I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
This may be, but it doesn't allow for other layouts such as Dvorak, Colemak, etc without purchasing extra keys.
Post by: nmur on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:17:08
this is exactly my stance tooI never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
I love SA caps, but for all my "real" work I really do pretty much only use Cherry or Topre profile caps.
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:17:21
Well, sculpted SA is no different...I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
This may be, but it doesn't allow for other layouts such as Dvorak, Colemak, etc without purchasing extra keys.
While this is true, the point I was making is SP at least offers those options, GMK does not.
Post by: Lepidus on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:20:46
Their K profile looks pretty cool. High-profiled, spherical, thick, doubleshot, etc. Missing molds?
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45690777/Sem%20t%C3%ADtulo.jpg)
Post by: LXXXIX on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:28:31
What about Devlin? Dont they take orders like this?Who? Have a website?
Their K profile looks pretty cool. High-profiled, spherical, thick, doubleshot, etc. Missing molds?Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45690777/Sem%20t%C3%ADtulo.jpg)
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:29:45
What about Devlin? Dont they take orders like this?
Their K profile looks pretty cool. High-profiled, spherical, thick, doubleshot, etc. Missing molds?Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45690777/Sem%20t%C3%ADtulo.jpg)
When I last talked to Devlin, they would only work with QWERkeys and any custom sets had to go through QWERkeys. I have no clue if that changed.
Post by: fabian101 on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:30:45
What about Devlin? Dont they take orders like this?Who? Have a website?
Their K profile looks pretty cool. High-profiled, spherical, thick, doubleshot, etc. Missing molds?Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45690777/Sem%20t%C3%ADtulo.jpg)
http://www.devlin.co.uk/products/components/keycaps.html
Post by: simonyunhe on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:33:29
http://www.devlin.co.uk/products/components/keycaps.html
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/4aa83a834f6a7a691653aae9926ec8bf.jpg)
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:34:23
What about Devlin? Dont they take orders like this?
Their K profile looks pretty cool. High-profiled, spherical, thick, doubleshot, etc. Missing molds?Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45690777/Sem%20t%C3%ADtulo.jpg)
When I last talked to Devlin, they would only work with QWERkeys and any custom sets had to go through QWERkeys. I have no clue if that changed.
I spoke to them in the past 6 months and didnt hear any mention of that. They seemed like rather cool people to me honestly and were quite open to stuff. I was just probing around for possibilities though and didnt have a set to actually follow up with.
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:34:55
Here is another UK company make 'SA' keycaps.
http://www.devlin.co.uk/products/components/keycaps.htmlShow Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160128/4aa83a834f6a7a691653aae9926ec8bf.jpg)
Look at cap sizes, nothing over 2 unit.
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:35:23
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:37:22
Well, sculpted SA is no different...I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
This may be, but it doesn't allow for other layouts such as Dvorak, Colemak, etc without purchasing extra keys.
While this is true, the point I was making is SP at least offers those options, GMK does not.
That is all just in the hands of the designer though. With GMK MOQ its usually just not as viable, but still definitely possible.
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:39:12
Well, sculpted SA is no different...I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
This may be, but it doesn't allow for other layouts such as Dvorak, Colemak, etc without purchasing extra keys.
While this is true, the point I was making is SP at least offers those options, GMK does not.
That is all just in the hands of the designer though. With GMK MOQ its usually just not as viable, but still definitely possible.
But more expensive then using a flat/uniform profile cap though. I mention this because apparently everyone is hung up on the price.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:46:57
Well, sculpted SA is no different...I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
This may be, but it doesn't allow for other layouts such as Dvorak, Colemak, etc without purchasing extra keys.
While this is true, the point I was making is SP at least offers those options, GMK does not.
That is all just in the hands of the designer though. With GMK MOQ its usually just not as viable, but still definitely possible.
But more expensive then using a flat/uniform profile cap though. I mention this because apparently everyone is hung up on the price.
Again, Id personally consider that more of a design thing though. Profile is probably the largest factor when it comes to a set, with sculpted and non sculpted profiles really being two totally different animals. Personally, this is what has made Granite so popular for example. There is nothing groundbreaking about the set, but it fits nearly every damn keyboard out there at this point. But compared to many other sculpted sets (Cherry or SA, DCS, whatever) it just doesn't feel as good to many people. I don't think that flat profiles look nearly as good on keyboards as sculpted profiles do either.
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:48:22
Well, sculpted SA is no different...I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
This may be, but it doesn't allow for other layouts such as Dvorak, Colemak, etc without purchasing extra keys.
While this is true, the point I was making is SP at least offers those options, GMK does not.
That is all just in the hands of the designer though. With GMK MOQ its usually just not as viable, but still definitely possible.
But more expensive then using a flat/uniform profile cap though. I mention this because apparently everyone is hung up on the price.
Again, Id personally consider that more of a design thing though. Profile is probably the largest factor when it comes to a set, with sculpted and non sculpted profiles really being two totally different animals. Personally, this is what has made Granite so popular for example. There is nothing groundbreaking about the set, but it fits nearly every damn keyboard out there at this point. But compared to many other sculpted sets (Cherry or SA, DCS, whatever) it just doesn't feel as good to many people. I don't think that flat profiles look nearly as good on keyboards as sculpted profiles do either.
But what if you could have a sculpted profile with uniform profile caps?
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:49:23
But what if you could have a sculpted profile with uniform profile caps?
so buckling spring?
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:50:04
But what if you could have a sculpted profile with uniform profile caps?
so buckling spring?
With MX and compatible, but yeah, that style.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:51:31
Well, sculpted SA is no different...I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
This may be, but it doesn't allow for other layouts such as Dvorak, Colemak, etc without purchasing extra keys.
While this is true, the point I was making is SP at least offers those options, GMK does not.
That is all just in the hands of the designer though. With GMK MOQ its usually just not as viable, but still definitely possible.
But more expensive then using a flat/uniform profile cap though. I mention this because apparently everyone is hung up on the price.
Again, Id personally consider that more of a design thing though. Profile is probably the largest factor when it comes to a set, with sculpted and non sculpted profiles really being two totally different animals. Personally, this is what has made Granite so popular for example. There is nothing groundbreaking about the set, but it fits nearly every damn keyboard out there at this point. But compared to many other sculpted sets (Cherry or SA, DCS, whatever) it just doesn't feel as good to many people. I don't think that flat profiles look nearly as good on keyboards as sculpted profiles do either.
But what if you could have a sculpted profile with uniform profile caps?
Huh? By sculpted, in my phrasing, I having different size keys for different rows, like many of these sets (Dsa and KT are the only non-sculpted profiles)
(http://www.laurivan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/FamilyProfilesLG.jpg)
Not sculpted as a singular cap. For example 1976 was all R3, and was not a sculpted set, where Jukebox was rows 1-1-2-3-4-4 and was sculpted :)
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:55:00
Well, sculpted SA is no different...I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
This may be, but it doesn't allow for other layouts such as Dvorak, Colemak, etc without purchasing extra keys.
While this is true, the point I was making is SP at least offers those options, GMK does not.
That is all just in the hands of the designer though. With GMK MOQ its usually just not as viable, but still definitely possible.
But more expensive then using a flat/uniform profile cap though. I mention this because apparently everyone is hung up on the price.
Again, Id personally consider that more of a design thing though. Profile is probably the largest factor when it comes to a set, with sculpted and non sculpted profiles really being two totally different animals. Personally, this is what has made Granite so popular for example. There is nothing groundbreaking about the set, but it fits nearly every damn keyboard out there at this point. But compared to many other sculpted sets (Cherry or SA, DCS, whatever) it just doesn't feel as good to many people. I don't think that flat profiles look nearly as good on keyboards as sculpted profiles do either.
But what if you could have a sculpted profile with uniform profile caps?
Huh? By sculpted, in my phrasing, I having different size keys for different rows, like many of these sets (Dsa and KT are the only non-sculpted profiles)Show Image(http://www.laurivan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/FamilyProfilesLG.jpg)
Not sculpted as a singular cap. For example 1976 was all R3, and was not a sculpted set, where Jukebox was rows 1-1-2-3-4-4 and was sculpted :)
I understand that, but I am going to be designing a keyboard that will give you the curved top/sculpted look and feel while using row 3 SA or DSA Think curved plate for MX
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:57:13
Well, sculpted SA is no different...I never thought I would say this but it looks like with the lowered GMK MOQs and now this it looks like GMK might actually become the go-to company when it comes to custom keysets
The fact that they are starting to do custom legends is also a big deal - if we could hit something like 250 orders for a buy with a new legend it would add something like $20 to the cost of each buy
The problem with GMK is Cherry profile only as far as I know. Personally it doesn't wow me at all.
It is without saying though probably the most popular profile on GH
This may be, but it doesn't allow for other layouts such as Dvorak, Colemak, etc without purchasing extra keys.
While this is true, the point I was making is SP at least offers those options, GMK does not.
That is all just in the hands of the designer though. With GMK MOQ its usually just not as viable, but still definitely possible.
But more expensive then using a flat/uniform profile cap though. I mention this because apparently everyone is hung up on the price.
Again, Id personally consider that more of a design thing though. Profile is probably the largest factor when it comes to a set, with sculpted and non sculpted profiles really being two totally different animals. Personally, this is what has made Granite so popular for example. There is nothing groundbreaking about the set, but it fits nearly every damn keyboard out there at this point. But compared to many other sculpted sets (Cherry or SA, DCS, whatever) it just doesn't feel as good to many people. I don't think that flat profiles look nearly as good on keyboards as sculpted profiles do either.
But what if you could have a sculpted profile with uniform profile caps?
Huh? By sculpted, in my phrasing, I having different size keys for different rows, like many of these sets (Dsa and KT are the only non-sculpted profiles)Show Image(http://www.laurivan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/FamilyProfilesLG.jpg)
Not sculpted as a singular cap. For example 1976 was all R3, and was not a sculpted set, where Jukebox was rows 1-1-2-3-4-4 and was sculpted :)
I understand that, but I am going to be designing a keyboard that will give you the curved top/sculpted look and feel while using row 3 SA or DSA Think curved plate for MX
Oh nice, like a Model M :thumb: Very cool! Now i see where you were going with that question lol
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:58:44
Post by: deduction on Thu, 28 January 2016, 01:47:04
Post by: thesiscamper on Thu, 28 January 2016, 02:39:50
(http://i.imgur.com/ocBPUbl.png)
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 28 January 2016, 02:43:19
Thank you for your work though these renders look so good I want to make it a reality for everyone
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 28 January 2016, 02:46:37
Just trying something new. This is still a go, right? ...right? :confused:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ocBPUbl.png)
Wait, this set already got produced?
Post by: thesiscamper on Thu, 28 January 2016, 02:48:45
:( looking into Massdrop but not sure. definitely not a go with these prices.
Thank you for your work though these renders look so good I want to make it a reality for everyone
I don't see why it would be a problem, a lot of people prefer BBJ, and they've dropped reruns of Dolch and Miami knock-offs. The only thing you need to do, I believe, is to provide proof there's enough interest... through polls or something similar.
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 28 January 2016, 03:01:34
Just trying something new. This is still a go, right? ...right? :confused:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ocBPUbl.png)
Wait, this set already got produced?
nope camper just does insanely beautiful renders.
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 28 January 2016, 03:57:49
:( looking into Massdrop but not sure. definitely not a go with these prices.
Thank you for your work though these renders look so good I want to make it a reality for everyone
You see folks, Sifo cares after all.
Personally I like this kid, a very laid back dude with that "hey, man I slept with your mom last night......... sorry, type of attitude" ;) .
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Thu, 28 January 2016, 07:04:03
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 28 January 2016, 07:11:38
iirc, Filco produces spherical high profile caps. Do we know who their OEM is? And has anyone ever contacted them to see if they could produce sets in different colors? Not saying this is a likely avenue, but it might be a possibility.
As far as I know SP makes those for filco
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Thu, 28 January 2016, 07:12:33
iirc, Filco produces spherical high profile caps. Do we know who their OEM is? And has anyone ever contacted them to see if they could produce sets in different colors? Not saying this is a likely avenue, but it might be a possibility.
As far as I know SP makes those for filco
>_< damn
Post by: Ail on Thu, 28 January 2016, 07:41:10
Just trying something new. This is still a go, right? ...right? :confused:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ocBPUbl.png)
hrrrngggghhhhhh
Looks so nice. :(
Post by: nosage on Thu, 28 January 2016, 08:04:22
https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/hi-profile-pbt-dye-sub-the-time-has-come-t10805.html
Post by: Machine56 on Thu, 28 January 2016, 08:36:23
the EVA 01 / Joker Kit, who do i have to murder to get these back ? any of you willing to trade the kit with the lincoln green papers ?
D:
Post by: Zanduby on Thu, 28 January 2016, 09:15:30
Jesus fking prime in cybertron...
the EVA 01 / Joker Kit, who do i have to murder to get these back ? any of you willing to trade the kit with the lincoln green papers ?
D:
Wrong thread for talking about this.
Post here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76967.0
Post by: tronbeaver on Thu, 28 January 2016, 09:18:54
Yeah, honestly at this point, I think Massdrop would be the way to move this forward. Maybe if you contact whoever is in charge of keycap buys there, they would work with you. I think PMK would be out, because of PuLSE R2.
Mito claims he is selling PuLSE at MassDrop first on Feb 5th.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/42bh8a/pulse_round_2_the_announcement/
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 28 January 2016, 09:39:44
I don't read r/MK, so I wasn't aware MiTo was going with MD for his R2. I assumed he would be running it through PMK, since that's where he did the first round.Yeah, honestly at this point, I think Massdrop would be the way to move this forward. Maybe if you contact whoever is in charge of keycap buys there, they would work with you. I think PMK would be out, because of PuLSE R2.
Mito claims he is selling PuLSE at MassDrop first on Feb 5th.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/42bh8a/pulse_round_2_the_announcement/
Post by: f1xedgear on Thu, 28 January 2016, 10:29:20
I don't read r/MK, so I wasn't aware MiTo was going with MD for his R2. I assumed he would be running it through PMK, since that's where he did the first round.Yeah, honestly at this point, I think Massdrop would be the way to move this forward. Maybe if you contact whoever is in charge of keycap buys there, they would work with you. I think PMK would be out, because of PuLSE R2.
Mito claims he is selling PuLSE at MassDrop first on Feb 5th.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/42bh8a/pulse_round_2_the_announcement/
According to MiTo, his plan is to run PuLSE R2 on massdrop first, then let PMK stock it indefinitely should they so desire.
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 28 January 2016, 10:50:38
Just trying something new. This is still a go, right? ...right? :confused:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ocBPUbl.png)
Wait, this set already got produced?
nope camper just does insanely beautiful renders.
All this SP nonsense has sapped the fun out of you and you missed my subtle compliment for camper's work.
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 28 January 2016, 12:39:09
:( looking into Massdrop but not sure. definitely not a go with these prices.
Thank you for your work though these renders look so good I want to make it a reality for everyone
I don't see why it would be a problem, a lot of people prefer BBJ, and they've dropped reruns of Dolch and Miami knock-offs. The only thing you need to do, I believe, is to provide proof there's enough interest... through polls or something similar.
Quite true. There's been a lot of positive feedback on the adjustment from BBQ to BBJ in this thread. I suspect that this thread would be sufficient to show interest in the set. Wasn't the use of the forum thread as the MassDrop poll equivalent what happened with Troubled Minds?
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:01:54
:( looking into Massdrop but not sure. definitely not a go with these prices.
Thank you for your work though these renders look so good I want to make it a reality for everyone
I don't see why it would be a problem, a lot of people prefer BBJ, and they've dropped reruns of Dolch and Miami knock-offs. The only thing you need to do, I believe, is to provide proof there's enough interest... through polls or something similar.
Quite true. There's been a lot of positive feedback on the adjustment from BBQ to BBJ in this thread. I suspect that this thread would be sufficient to show interest in the set. Wasn't the use of the forum thread as the MassDrop poll equivalent what happened with Troubled Minds?
I've said this earlier up, but I know for a fact MD is slammed with sets for months already. Like until Fall, slammed. PMK is going to be a lot quicker bet :thumb:
Post by: LXXXIX on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:06:55
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426
Post by: lishi on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:12:46
Official statement from SP. Check it out.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426)
It's nice to see transparency from SP, but is it feasible for someone to become a single point of contact for all gh group buys? That seems rather unlikely honestly.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:18:17
Official statement from SP. Check it out.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426)
It's nice to see transparency from SP, but is it feasible for someone to become a single point of contact for all gh group buys? That seems rather unlikely honestly.
Yeah, but it does make sense from a business perspective and will help track what GH actually buys, etc. I think it is a very fair and informative answer honestly. Finding a person to do that, will indeed be hard.
Post by: LXXXIX on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:24:24
I thought it was honest and good reply. It's only being fair to get one singular person. Would that also mean shipping out or just creating orders?Official statement from SP. Check it out.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426)
It's nice to see transparency from SP, but is it feasible for someone to become a single point of contact for all gh group buys? That seems rather unlikely honestly.
Yeah, but it does make sense from a business perspective and will help track what GH actually buys, etc. I think it is a very fair and informative answer honestly. Finding a person to do that, will indeed be hard.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:24:48
I have started a discussion to talk about finding a GH rep here :thumb: This will keep the other topics on track
Post by: lishi on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:27:15
I thought it was honest and good reply. It's only being fair to get one singular person. Would that also mean shipping out or just creating orders?Official statement from SP. Check it out.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426)
It's nice to see transparency from SP, but is it feasible for someone to become a single point of contact for all gh group buys? That seems rather unlikely honestly.
Yeah, but it does make sense from a business perspective and will help track what GH actually buys, etc. I think it is a very fair and informative answer honestly. Finding a person to do that, will indeed be hard.
I'm sure this is the way this would happen if someone stepped up to the plate for this:
The group buy leader would still create interest checks, create mockups, collect money etc.
One point of contact submits orders to SP, receives caps.
Group buy leader then receives caps from the contact person and distributes caps to the participants.
Otherwise, it seems like way too much work to pin on the contact guy.
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:33:50
Official statement from SP. Check it out.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426
Before I read that thread, who is the SP rep, I didn't see Melissa's name on a very quick skim.
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:34:38
Official statement from SP. Check it out.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426
Before I read that thread, who is the SP rep, I didn't see Melissa's name on a very quick skim.
It appears to be the owner.
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:35:14
Official statement from SP. Check it out.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426
Before I read that thread, who is the SP rep, I didn't see Melissa's name on a very quick skim.
It appears to be the owner.
What name.will I see on the avatar
Post by: f1xedgear on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:35:36
Looks like Bob, the owner, is SMKNGNZ. He mentions Melissa (SPLady) somewhere in his explanation.Official statement from SP. Check it out.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426
Before I read that thread, who is the SP rep, I didn't see Melissa's name on a very quick skim.
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:37:31
Honestly, I'd rather just default to GMK at this point. Easier to work with, better communication, and better pricing on the Cherry profile than SA.
And, while some of it is reasonable explanations, I still find it sad that the assistance provided by the communities of GH and DT to make them visible and capable of running the sets people desire is being dismissed. It is not entitlement to ask for recognition of that, it is loyalty. Loyalty is a two way street and I see traffic stopping from the other direction, so I still plan on taking my business elsewhere.
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:42:54
A few years ago, something like this could have easily occurred with little pushback. Now that more and more opportunities for caps are emerging, I think that if anything this is a bad business move for SP. Sure there will still be some sets ran through SP, but I doubt they will gain nearly as much support as in the past.
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:48:28
Sure there will still be some sets ran through SP, but I doubt they will gain nearly as much support as in the past.
I think SP would be okay with this. They have way too much demand, and not enough supply. Losing a little support will help take some stress off them. It's not like they're hurting for business.
Pricing changes, it happens. It sucks (for us consumers), but it's part of doing business. SP can't use historical rates because (as the owner mentioned) they weren't the right prices to begin with.
Post by: switchnollie on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:49:03
Just trying something new. This is still a go, right? ...right? :confused:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ocBPUbl.png)
Is that an actual TKL housing that exists? :eek:
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:52:25
Pricing changes, it happens. It sucks (for us consumers), but it's part of doing business. SP can't use historical rates because (as the owner mentioned) they weren't the right prices to begin with.
Yeah, but the question was why does MD get better rates on a keysets with the same volumes of orders as the community? Even if the community presented a perfect set with no corrections needed by SP (because Melissa & co's time is valuable) and no custom legends, a set on MD gets better rates at the same numbers of sets. This is where the comment about loyalty comes in as they would not have MD as a customer if it wasn't for GH and DT.
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 28 January 2016, 14:54:44
Pricing changes, it happens. It sucks (for us consumers), but it's part of doing business. SP can't use historical rates because (as the owner mentioned) they weren't the right prices to begin with.
Yeah, but the question was why does MD get better rates on a keysets with the same volumes of orders than the community. Even if the community presented a perfect set with no corrections needed by SP and no custom legends, a set on MD gets better rates at the same numbers of sets. This is where the comment about loyalty comes in as they would not have MD as a customer if it wasn't for GH and DT.
Wholesale pricing for the better rates.
However, he mentions that GH can get better pricing if they opt to get a liaison/leader who can serve as the intermediary between the individual group buy leaders and SP. I don't think that's an unfair request.
Post by: Ail on Thu, 28 January 2016, 15:17:20
Official statement from SP. Check it out.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426)
It's nice to see transparency from SP, but is it feasible for someone to become a single point of contact for all gh group buys? That seems rather unlikely honestly.
Not if they're doing it for free, no not really. If anyone would like to prove us wrong however... ;D
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 28 January 2016, 16:47:04
Pricing changes, it happens. It sucks (for us consumers), but it's part of doing business. SP can't use historical rates because (as the owner mentioned) they weren't the right prices to begin with.
Yeah, but the question was why does MD get better rates on a keysets with the same volumes of orders as the community? Even if the community presented a perfect set with no corrections needed by SP (because Melissa & co's time is valuable) and no custom legends, a set on MD gets better rates at the same numbers of sets. This is where the comment about loyalty comes in as they would not have MD as a customer if it wasn't for GH and DT.
MassDrop has, in a short amount of time, shown that they can put in massive order volume that would typically take the community much larger to accumulate. With that, they've been able to negotiate a wholesale pricing discount as noted by SP.
And sure, MassDrop is doing so well in large part because of the GH, DT, rMK communities. Yet MassDrop is also bringing in more customers than just the keyboard community while still benefiting the keyboard community; we still get reasonable pricing and with more buyers can look to higher tiers of pricing discounts plus get the added benefit of fast sorting and shipping of product.
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 28 January 2016, 17:20:58
Post by: Den441 on Thu, 28 January 2016, 18:00:27
I think this is also something that could get people outside the community interested. They may be inclined to contribute even. With a good campaign, a decent amount of money could be raised for this. The question is how much would the molds cost? If it is a million dollars+ we may indeed be out of luck with producing these for awhile. It may be years from now, but I think something like this will eventually happen if another Spherical cap producer doesn't ever appear. Spherical caps just have a timeless feel to them, and I think they will only continue to grow in popularity as this community grows.
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 28 January 2016, 18:52:59
This is probably a crazy idea, but how about a crowd funded campaign to get SA molds made? I'm not talking about SP's SA, but a Spherical cap that is super thick and high quality. Maybe even triple shots. Old-school, but MX-compatible. Backers would get the first sets made with the molds(Flatline!) + all that other swag kickstarter campaigns normally include. The Ultimate Hacking keyboard raised over $260,000 with crowdfunding. We'd also need to find a good injection molding company to use the molds and make caps.
I think this is also something that could get people outside the community interested. They may be inclined to contribute even. With a good campaign, a decent amount of money could be raised for this. The question is how much would the molds cost? If it is a million dollars+ we may indeed be out of luck with producing these for awhile. It may be years from now, but I think something like this will eventually happen if another Spherical cap producer doesn't ever appear. Spherical caps just have a timeless feel to them, and I think they will only continue to grow in popularity as this community grows.
Already being worked on. https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/hi-profile-pbt-dye-sub-the-time-has-come-t10805.html
Granted, the goal there is dyesub PBT but I think we could get that to work for doubleshot ABS as well. Matt3o was pretty busy with the White Fox keyboard so he'll hopefully return his attention to this in the near future.
If not that, you can get scans done of other beam spring or hall effect keycaps and use them as a starting point for molds. Of course, you'll need someone with CAD skills that can get the updates in necessary for things like the ISO enter key, correctly sized space bars for multiple formats, and a few other keys that those old boards aren't going to have.
Post by: zslane on Thu, 28 January 2016, 19:32:48
MassDrop has, in a short amount of time, shown that they can put in massive order volume that would typically take the community much longer to accumulate.
I get the sense that that is regarded as unsubstantiated myth.
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 28 January 2016, 20:06:44
MassDrop has, in a short amount of time, shown that they can put in massive order volume that would typically take the community much longer to accumulate.
I get the sense that that is regarded as unsubstantiated myth.
Not a myth, the last granite drop was close to 6,000 orders on its own. There are GBs and ICs here on a fairly frequnent basis that can't drum up 150.
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 28 January 2016, 20:31:07
Granite was 20769.
Carbon was at 2657.
Danger Zone was at 1559.
Troubled Minds was at 983.
Jukebox was at 240
DSA Dolch was at 517
DSA Dolch TK/Gamer set was at 90
Galaxy Class was 1271
Infinity DSA Dye-Sub set was 180
DCS Skull Squadron was 165
Post by: zslane on Thu, 28 January 2016, 20:37:13
Post by: Niomosy on Thu, 28 January 2016, 20:53:37
I guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.
I think it's that some believe that the other things the community has done with regard to assisting SP in the past would translate into a community discount as well. At least that's what I've seen in some of the comments.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 28 January 2016, 20:56:29
MassDrop has, in a short amount of time, shown that they can put in massive order volume that would typically take the community much longer to accumulate.
I get the sense that that is regarded as unsubstantiated myth.
Not a myth, the last granite drop was close to 6,000 orders on its own. There are GBs and ICs here on a fairly frequnent basis that can't drum up 150.
Yeah, the long reach of Massdrop is pretty undeniable.
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 28 January 2016, 21:05:40
I guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.
Yeah, there is no mystery, controversy, or conspiracy. The reason for the sudden price increase for what was quoted to Sifo vs what has been quoted to MD is two fold. First, massdrops sheer quantity of orders, and two, SP noticed and fixed a problem with their estimation software that had the amount of plastic for the caps at the levels what what DSA is vs SA. It wasn't noticed because up until a few years ago with the resurgence of "retro" and GH getting SA sets done, these molds hadn't been used for close to 20 years.
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 28 January 2016, 21:18:47
Post by: zslane on Thu, 28 January 2016, 21:53:05
Though from what I can tell, once you apply the wholesale discount and then add MassDrop's markup (which covers quite a number of things), the MassDrop price isn't much different than the raw quote from SP that an individual receives for a group buy.
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Thu, 28 January 2016, 21:54:45
I guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.
Yeah, there is no mystery, controversy, or conspiracy. The reason for the sudden price increase for what was quoted to Sifo vs what has been quoted to MD is two fold. First, massdrops sheer quantity of orders, and two, SP noticed and fixed a problem with their estimation software that had the amount of plastic for the caps at the levels what what DSA is vs SA. It wasn't noticed because up until a few years ago with the resurgence of "retro" and GH getting SA sets done, these molds hadn't been used for close to 20 years.
Wow. 20 years. That's quite a long time. Well, I'm very glad that they held on to them for so long.
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 29 January 2016, 00:39:51
That is a high quality mold right there :pI guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.
Yeah, there is no mystery, controversy, or conspiracy. The reason for the sudden price increase for what was quoted to Sifo vs what has been quoted to MD is two fold. First, massdrops sheer quantity of orders, and two, SP noticed and fixed a problem with their estimation software that had the amount of plastic for the caps at the levels what what DSA is vs SA. It wasn't noticed because up until a few years ago with the resurgence of "retro" and GH getting SA sets done, these molds hadn't been used for close to 20 years.
Wow. 20 years. That's quite a long time. Well, I'm very glad that they held on to them for so long.
Post by: Melvang on Fri, 29 January 2016, 00:40:52
Probably stainless, my guess would be 316, or better.That is a high quality mold right thereI guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.
Yeah, there is no mystery, controversy, or conspiracy. The reason for the sudden price increase for what was quoted to Sifo vs what has been quoted to MD is two fold. First, massdrops sheer quantity of orders, and two, SP noticed and fixed a problem with their estimation software that had the amount of plastic for the caps at the levels what what DSA is vs SA. It wasn't noticed because up until a few years ago with the resurgence of "retro" and GH getting SA sets done, these molds hadn't been used for close to 20 years.
Wow. 20 years. That's quite a long time. Well, I'm very glad that they held on to them for so long.
Post by: qwack on Fri, 29 January 2016, 07:11:25
Not a myth, the last granite drop was close to 6,000 orders on its own. There are GBs and ICs here on a fairly frequnent basis that can't drum up 150.
Probably closer to 1700 orders (with lots of child packs) than 6000: http://www.massdrop.community/mechkeys/granite/index.html
Does not change the picture much though.
Post by: zslane on Sat, 30 January 2016, 15:34:55
Post by: Ail on Sat, 30 January 2016, 16:25:17
BTW, I want to say that while I have no personal stake in the future of Flatline per se, I am sorry that we won't get that Reaper artisan that Sifo showed. I'm not even a fan of artisan caps, but I would have had a tough time resisting the temptation to get one of those to go with my PuLSE set. Oh well...
Yeah I was kinda thinking the same thing. I'm not much for artisans, but dat reaper. :eek:
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sat, 30 January 2016, 17:00:43
BTW, I want to say that while I have no personal stake in the future of Flatline per se, I am sorry that we won't get that Reaper artisan that Sifo showed. I'm not even a fan of artisan caps, but I would have had a tough time resisting the temptation to get one of those to go with my PuLSE set. Oh well...
Yeah I was kinda thinking the same thing. I'm not much for artisans, but dat reaper. :eek:
I'm pretty sure Bro is still making ones to match pulse :thumb:
Post by: Jedi on Sat, 30 January 2016, 17:48:31
Post by: Homenubbie on Mon, 01 February 2016, 08:49:32
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/pulse-sa-keycap-set?mode=guest_open
Post by: Bucky on Mon, 01 February 2016, 10:19:16
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 01 February 2016, 10:21:18
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 01 February 2016, 10:22:28
Go and grab pulse guys! I'm definitely working on something exciting for Flatline but that's far off in the future for now.
Glad to hear there's still something in progress. I've come to grow quite fond of the name.
Post by: Edmundoh on Mon, 01 February 2016, 10:26:02
Go and grab pulse guys! I'm definitely working on something exciting for Flatline but that's far off in the future for now.
Glad to hear, looking forward to it and good luck!
Post by: LXXXIX on Mon, 01 February 2016, 10:26:27
Go and grab pulse guys! I'm definitely working on something exciting for Flatline but that's far off in the future for now.
No matter will wait for the right Cyan color scheme. After seeing the wrong blue-green tone it looks awful. GL with Pulse!
Post by: Hanni on Mon, 01 February 2016, 13:14:50
We were only 200 to pick Pulse and the drama with MiTo was tremendeous...Go and grab pulse guys! I'm definitely working on something exciting for Flatline but that's far off in the future for now.
No matter will wait for the right Cyan color scheme. After seeing the wrong blue-green tone it looks awful. GL with Pulse!
So I doubt that people (aka reddit) noticed the color tone on 95% of the pictures isn't in accordance with the real tone. ^-^
Keep it up, Sifo ! :thumb:
Post by: LXXXIX on Mon, 01 February 2016, 13:15:56
We were only 200 to pick Pulse and the drama with MiTo was tremendeous...Go and grab pulse guys! I'm definitely working on something exciting for Flatline but that's far off in the future for now.
No matter will wait for the right Cyan color scheme. After seeing the wrong blue-green tone it looks awful. GL with Pulse!
So I doubt that people (aka reddit) noticed the color tone on 95% of the pictures isn't in accordance with the real tone. ^-^
That's a shame.
Post by: thesiscamper on Mon, 01 February 2016, 14:47:32
Post by: zslane on Mon, 01 February 2016, 14:58:47
Post by: thesiscamper on Mon, 01 February 2016, 15:01:32
PuLSE uses BBQ, right?
Yes, this set uses BBJ, unless something has changed.
Post by: zslane on Mon, 01 February 2016, 15:24:49
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 01 February 2016, 15:34:48
I guess I'm just confused by references to "wrong" colors. Some posts are making it sound like PuLSE round 1 used one color code, while round 2 is using a different (i.e., wrong) color code.
"Wrong" meaning people do not like Pulse because it uses BBQ.
The "right" cyan or one that people seem to prefer is BBJ which is why I was using it for this set. But to each their own I have no preference myself.
Post by: Hanni on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:46:27
I guess I'm just confused by references to "wrong" colors. Some posts are making it sound like PuLSE round 1 used one color code, while round 2 is using a different (i.e., wrong) color code.I was pointing the difference between camera and eyes perception. BBQ is way greener than it appears on my screen.
Post by: zslane on Mon, 01 February 2016, 18:09:35
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 02 February 2016, 05:07:39
This keycaps looks real fine tho :(
Post by: LXXXIX on Tue, 02 February 2016, 06:01:08
So we can't get this flatline keycaps go into GB phase right?Like Sifo said it's not dropped it will just be started up again at a later time.
This keycaps looks real fine tho :(
Post by: MAR82 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 07:34:34
it's not dropped it will just be started up again at a later time.
The story of my life....
Post by: ntitco1 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 07:41:16
Any news abt siso? :))it's not dropped it will just be started up again at a later time.
The story of my life....
Post by: MAR82 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:07:35
Any news abt siso? :))it's not dropped it will just be started up again at a later time.
The story of my life....
I would really like it to be made by JTK for a few reasons. But as of now they are not taking any custom orders. The only other real option would be to have it made by GMK, but it would be expensive because of the need for custom colors and legend.
Right now I'm really busy with stuff at work, and will get back to the set after JTK has made the first custom community set.
I also need to find time to work on my other set (CopyCap). Hopefully that set can be done quicker and be made/sold by PMK.
Now back to Flatlining... ______________________________________________
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 02 February 2016, 17:35:12
Stainless is that good? now I knowProbably stainless, my guess would be 316, or better.That is a high quality mold right thereI guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.
Yeah, there is no mystery, controversy, or conspiracy. The reason for the sudden price increase for what was quoted to Sifo vs what has been quoted to MD is two fold. First, massdrops sheer quantity of orders, and two, SP noticed and fixed a problem with their estimation software that had the amount of plastic for the caps at the levels what what DSA is vs SA. It wasn't noticed because up until a few years ago with the resurgence of "retro" and GH getting SA sets done, these molds hadn't been used for close to 20 years.
Wow. 20 years. That's quite a long time. Well, I'm very glad that they held on to them for so long.
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 02 February 2016, 17:44:50
Depends greatly on the alloy. I have thin sheets at home that have been sitting outside in the elements for probably 5 years. Not one spot of corrosion. I think they are left overs from a kitchen project when my father in law worked construction. Minimum grade for food contact is 316 with a 4b sanitary finish. But no homeowner is going to pay for 316L or 316LVM, which have decreasing levels of carbon.Stainless is that good? now I knowProbably stainless, my guess would be 316, or better.That is a high quality mold right thereI guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.
Yeah, there is no mystery, controversy, or conspiracy. The reason for the sudden price increase for what was quoted to Sifo vs what has been quoted to MD is two fold. First, massdrops sheer quantity of orders, and two, SP noticed and fixed a problem with their estimation software that had the amount of plastic for the caps at the levels what what DSA is vs SA. It wasn't noticed because up until a few years ago with the resurgence of "retro" and GH getting SA sets done, these molds hadn't been used for close to 20 years.
Wow. 20 years. That's quite a long time. Well, I'm very glad that they held on to them for so long.
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 02 February 2016, 17:47:01
You seem to know alot about metal thank you for the info bro!Depends greatly on the alloy. I have thin sheets at home that have been sitting outside in the elements for probably 5 years. Not one spot of corrosion. I think they are left overs from a kitchen project when my father in law worked construction. Minimum grade for food contact is 316 with a 4b sanitary finish. But no homeowner is going to pay for 316L or 316LVM, which have decreasing levels of carbon.Stainless is that good? now I knowProbably stainless, my guess would be 316, or better.That is a high quality mold right thereI guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.
Yeah, there is no mystery, controversy, or conspiracy. The reason for the sudden price increase for what was quoted to Sifo vs what has been quoted to MD is two fold. First, massdrops sheer quantity of orders, and two, SP noticed and fixed a problem with their estimation software that had the amount of plastic for the caps at the levels what what DSA is vs SA. It wasn't noticed because up until a few years ago with the resurgence of "retro" and GH getting SA sets done, these molds hadn't been used for close to 20 years.
Wow. 20 years. That's quite a long time. Well, I'm very glad that they held on to them for so long.
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 02 February 2016, 18:04:56
Been working with metals for my job since fall of 03You seem to know alot about metal thank you for the info bro!Depends greatly on the alloy. I have thin sheets at home that have been sitting outside in the elements for probably 5 years. Not one spot of corrosion. I think they are left overs from a kitchen project when my father in law worked construction. Minimum grade for food contact is 316 with a 4b sanitary finish. But no homeowner is going to pay for 316L or 316LVM, which have decreasing levels of carbon.Stainless is that good? now I knowProbably stainless, my guess would be 316, or better.That is a high quality mold right thereI guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.
Yeah, there is no mystery, controversy, or conspiracy. The reason for the sudden price increase for what was quoted to Sifo vs what has been quoted to MD is two fold. First, massdrops sheer quantity of orders, and two, SP noticed and fixed a problem with their estimation software that had the amount of plastic for the caps at the levels what what DSA is vs SA. It wasn't noticed because up until a few years ago with the resurgence of "retro" and GH getting SA sets done, these molds hadn't been used for close to 20 years.
Wow. 20 years. That's quite a long time. Well, I'm very glad that they held on to them for so long.
Post by: Lepidus on Tue, 02 February 2016, 18:22:56
Been working with metals for my job since fall of 03
Why are keycap molds so expensive? I mean, dont you just get a large chunk of whatever metal they use, CNC a hole and profit? Why do they cost 5k dolaroos?
Post by: Bucky on Tue, 02 February 2016, 18:29:09
Any news abt siso? :))it's not dropped it will just be started up again at a later time.
The story of my life....
I would really like it to be made by JTK for a few reasons. But as of now they are not taking any custom orders. The only other real option would be to have it made by GMK, but it would be expensive because of the need for custom colors and legend.
Right now I'm really busy with stuff at work, and will get back to the set after JTK has made the first custom community set.
I also need to find time to work on my other set (CopyCap). Hopefully that set can be done quicker and be made/sold by PMK.
Now back to Flatlining... ______________________________________________
Oh if JTK made Siso that would be amazing, I have been waiting on that one :)
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 02 February 2016, 18:37:33
Tolerances in the machining is the majority of it with setup costs from a shop capable of those tolerances. For example, paraphrasing from Sherline. To increase the accuracy of their benchtop milling machine by 3%, it would increase the cost of the machine by 10 fold. To put some numbers on tolerances for machining, surface grinding parts flat and parallel to within +/-.0003" is a very routine job that can be accomplished relatively with the proper machines. To get that tolerance down to say +/-.00005", which gives you a total allowance from largest to smallest dimension possible of .0001", takes about 4 times longer.Been working with metals for my job since fall of 03
Why are keycap molds so expensive? I mean, dont you just get a large chunk of whatever metal they use, CNC a hole and profit? Why do they cost 5k dolaroos?
For example with my trade, I routinely have to do shaft alignments between an electric motor and a pump/gearbox/any other shaft driven machine. Typically we use the Optalign laser alignment tool, our union hall has a similar machine by Rotalign with all the bells and whistles that cost them $18,000. I normally am given tolerances for angular misalignment and offset misalignment both in the vertical and horizontal axis of .002". Depending on the setup, condition of the alignment when I get to it, condition of the base, this can take anywhere from an hour to 4 hours.
I have worked on some specialized equipment that had special couplings between the motor and gear box that required less than .0005" tolerance. When I arrived at that task, everything was already there, bolted up, and alignment was within .010" all the way around. That alignment took me 2 days with a good partner.
One other thing, with Bob mentioning that tooling changes take 2 hours, we are probably actually paying for 2 dozen molds or so. And there are going to be multiple cavities in each mold.
Post by: Qklese on Wed, 03 February 2016, 04:43:32
Go and grab pulse guys! I'm definitely working on something exciting for Flatline but that's far off in the future for now.
That's too bad but there is nothing you can really do about that. After seeing the hypocrisy of Mito and his his immature actions towards the creator of Dusk SA, there's no way that I'll be buying a Pulse set. Take as long as you like man, hopefully you'll offer some non-standard layout options as well.
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 03 February 2016, 12:33:01
That Skeletor has come along with a sweet looking GMK set probably helped.
Post by: Phirr on Wed, 03 February 2016, 12:54:28
Saw the thread and it reminded me of this. What happens when a rapper watches too many conspiracy vids on youtube.
Post by: Ail on Wed, 03 February 2016, 17:37:43
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 03 February 2016, 18:40:09
Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
I think the most interesting piece of PuLSE is the black on cyan alphas. That's actually pretty interesting. Though, assuming zslane can make Dancer happen, I'll just go that route instead and do BBJ and whatever white was chosen for the legends.
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 03 February 2016, 18:40:41
Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 03 February 2016, 18:51:49
With the progress of Flatline, however, I never realized how much green Pulse's blue had, and now I can't help but notice it.
Will keeping holding out and hoping for Flatline to come to fruition.
Post by: zslane on Wed, 03 February 2016, 19:44:17
That's not to say Flatline wouldn't look just as great; it's just that I don't dislike PuLSE just because I also like Flatline.
Post by: Niomosy on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:55:52
Yeah, PuLSE doesn't have cyan keys it has aquamarine keys. Some of its Google images look like cyan though, which can be misleading. Had both been available at the time when I picked up PuLSE, I would have gone with Flatline. But now that I have PuLSE, I rather like the aquamarine. It is quite striking against the black.
That's not to say Flatline wouldn't look just as great; it's just that I don't dislike PuLSE just because I also like Flatline.
Aquamarine is probably more accurate for PuLSE, that's true. I must say that I do like both BBQ and BBJ from what I've seen. I'm fine with a set in either color.
Post by: tangkims on Wed, 10 February 2016, 20:12:42
Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
After seeing first hand experience how MiTo reacts in that sub about artisans.... I'm even more inclined to pay more for flatline... plus the colors are an exact match for that flatline bro
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 20:25:02
This set is not gonna run right?Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
After seeing first hand experience how MiTo reacts in that sub about artisans.... I'm even more inclined to pay more for flatline... plus the colors are an exact match for that flatline bro
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 10 February 2016, 20:29:34
This set is not gonna run right?Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
After seeing first hand experience how MiTo reacts in that sub about artisans.... I'm even more inclined to pay more for flatline... plus the colors are an exact match for that flatline bro
I was working on an a different avenue to get the set produced but there hasn't been any further progress. It may or may not happen in the future (y)
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:15:50
Nooo this set haves to run its enough that soware gmk is not gonna happen not this sets too!This set is not gonna run right?Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
After seeing first hand experience how MiTo reacts in that sub about artisans.... I'm even more inclined to pay more for flatline... plus the colors are an exact match for that flatline bro
I was working on an a different avenue to get the set produced but there hasn't been any further progress. It may or may not happen in the future (y)
Post by: LXXXIX on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:26:01
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:26:30
I think it could run through SP as a DSA set.Nooo this set haves to run its enough that soware gmk is not gonna happen not this sets too!This set is not gonna run right?Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
After seeing first hand experience how MiTo reacts in that sub about artisans.... I'm even more inclined to pay more for flatline... plus the colors are an exact match for that flatline bro
I was working on an a different avenue to get the set produced but there hasn't been any further progress. It may or may not happen in the future (y)
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:27:08
Nope nope nopeI think it could run through SP as a DSA set.Nooo this set haves to run its enough that soware gmk is not gonna happen not this sets too!This set is not gonna run right?Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
After seeing first hand experience how MiTo reacts in that sub about artisans.... I'm even more inclined to pay more for flatline... plus the colors are an exact match for that flatline bro
I was working on an a different avenue to get the set produced but there hasn't been any further progress. It may or may not happen in the future (y)
SA or cherry!
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:30:34
Nope nope nopeI think it could run through SP as a DSA set.Nooo this set haves to run its enough that soware gmk is not gonna happen not this sets too!This set is not gonna run right?Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
After seeing first hand experience how MiTo reacts in that sub about artisans.... I'm even more inclined to pay more for flatline... plus the colors are an exact match for that flatline bro
I was working on an a different avenue to get the set produced but there hasn't been any further progress. It may or may not happen in the future (y)
SA or cherry!
Why not DSA? SA has a bunch of sets out already and Cherry, well, nothing wrong with Cherry. Do people really dislike DSA that much?
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:32:11
They sucks ass! Its like using my old ****ty rubberdome keycapsNope nope nopeI think it could run through SP as a DSA set.Nooo this set haves to run its enough that soware gmk is not gonna happen not this sets too!This set is not gonna run right?Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
After seeing first hand experience how MiTo reacts in that sub about artisans.... I'm even more inclined to pay more for flatline... plus the colors are an exact match for that flatline bro
I was working on an a different avenue to get the set produced but there hasn't been any further progress. It may or may not happen in the future (y)
SA or cherry!
Why not DSA? SA has a bunch of sets out already and Cherry, well, nothing wrong with Cherry. Do people really dislike DSA that much?
Post by: LXXXIX on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:32:12
I do. I'm on team SA, JT, or GMK.Nope nope nopeI think it could run through SP as a DSA set.Nooo this set haves to run its enough that soware gmk is not gonna happen not this sets too!This set is not gonna run right?Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
After seeing first hand experience how MiTo reacts in that sub about artisans.... I'm even more inclined to pay more for flatline... plus the colors are an exact match for that flatline bro
I was working on an a different avenue to get the set produced but there hasn't been any further progress. It may or may not happen in the future (y)
SA or cherry!
Why not DSA? SA has a bunch of sets out already and Cherry, well, nothing wrong with Cherry. Do people really dislike DSA that much?
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:33:42
bsp, enjoypbt, imsto?I do. I'm on team SA, JT, or GMK.Nope nope nopeI think it could run through SP as a DSA set.Nooo this set haves to run its enough that soware gmk is not gonna happen not this sets too!This set is not gonna run right?Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
After seeing first hand experience how MiTo reacts in that sub about artisans.... I'm even more inclined to pay more for flatline... plus the colors are an exact match for that flatline bro
I was working on an a different avenue to get the set produced but there hasn't been any further progress. It may or may not happen in the future (y)
SA or cherry!
Why not DSA? SA has a bunch of sets out already and Cherry, well, nothing wrong with Cherry. Do people really dislike DSA that much?
You left the good stuff!
Post by: LXXXIX on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:36:28
This set can't be worked as PBT...bsp, enjoypbt, imsto?I do. I'm on team SA, JT, or GMK.Nope nope nopeI think it could run through SP as a DSA set.Nooo this set haves to run its enough that soware gmk is not gonna happen not this sets too!This set is not gonna run right?Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
After seeing first hand experience how MiTo reacts in that sub about artisans.... I'm even more inclined to pay more for flatline... plus the colors are an exact match for that flatline bro
I was working on an a different avenue to get the set produced but there hasn't been any further progress. It may or may not happen in the future (y)
SA or cherry!
Why not DSA? SA has a bunch of sets out already and Cherry, well, nothing wrong with Cherry. Do people really dislike DSA that much?
You left the good stuff!
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:37:35
Well yeah but we talk about good keycaps right? HeheThis set can't be worked as PBT...bsp, enjoypbt, imsto?I do. I'm on team SA, JT, or GMK.Nope nope nopeI think it could run through SP as a DSA set.Nooo this set haves to run its enough that soware gmk is not gonna happen not this sets too!This set is not gonna run right?Flatline 4 Lyfe
The Pulse price is tempting, but that's about the only part of it that is.
If you combine all the kits to have an equivalent of what flatline was gonna offer, it actually costs like $30 more than my non-profit pricing.
After seeing first hand experience how MiTo reacts in that sub about artisans.... I'm even more inclined to pay more for flatline... plus the colors are an exact match for that flatline bro
I was working on an a different avenue to get the set produced but there hasn't been any further progress. It may or may not happen in the future (y)
SA or cherry!
Why not DSA? SA has a bunch of sets out already and Cherry, well, nothing wrong with Cherry. Do people really dislike DSA that much?
You left the good stuff!
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:46:24
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:47:39
Can you guys pleeease not quote so many posts at once? It makes Tapatalk just a scroll-fest. :|Ok hoff how can I usez spoilers in tapatalk?
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:52:21
Can you guys pleeease not quote so many posts at once? It makes Tapatalk just a scroll-fest. :|Ok hoff how can I usez spoilers in tapatalk!
Spoilers don't work in Tapatalk.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:53:22
Can you guys pleeease not quote so many posts at once? It makes Tapatalk just a scroll-fest. :|Ok hoff how can I usez spoilers in tapatalk!
Using the "More" tag doesn't compress anything in tapatalk anyway, so that wouldn't fix it regardless. ;) But ultimately it's up to the user to decide how they want to post, I just wanted to make you aware of the annoyance. :thumb:
I'd recommend simply starting a fresh post to respond to someone if you are responding to a chain like this on Tapa. Not worth the effort to edit out the prior quotes.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:54:51
Post by: nmur on Wed, 10 February 2016, 21:57:10
snip
I like doing this so they get a notification too tho
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 10 February 2016, 22:04:31
snip
I like doing this so they get a notification too tho
Definitely. On a desktop that's the best way, but selecting text like that can be a huge pain on a phone.
You can also tag people with @nmur for example. :thumb:
Like @rowdy :))
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 22:24:07
snip
I like doing this so they get a notification too tho
Definitely. On a desktop that's the best way, but selecting text like that can be a huge pain on a phone.
You can also tag people with @nmur for example. :thumb:
Like @rowdy :))
So there is a way to tag people?
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 10 February 2016, 22:25:31
snip
I like doing this so they get a notification too tho
Definitely. On a desktop that's the best way, but selecting text like that can be a huge pain on a phone.
You can also tag people with @nmur for example. :thumb:
Like @rowdy :))
So there is a way to tag people?
@romevi: Did it work?
Post by: user 18 on Thu, 11 February 2016, 00:30:43
I believe how it works is it sends the user you tag a tapatalk notification just as it would if you quoted them.
Post by: LXXXIX on Thu, 11 February 2016, 07:42:58
@Sifo and @HoffmanMyster
Can we please just put this on PMK. Vote for it and see what happens? Maybe the pricing won't be so bad if it come directly from them?
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:30:26
Let's see if it works:
@Sifo and @HoffmanMyster
Can we please just put this on PMK. Vote for it and see what happens? Maybe the pricing won't be so bad if it come directly from them?
I'm not opposed, but this is really sifo's project. I was just the shipping guy. :)
Post by: LXXXIX on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:33:10
I just remember @Sifo saying he didn't really care if it was ran again. Just a thought.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:34:11
You never mentioned if the @HoffmanMyster thing worked in Tapatalk. :P
I just remember @Sifo saying he didn't really care if it was ran again. Just a thought.
It does work, that's why I said it earlier.
It comes up as a "mention".
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:37:54
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:38:47
I really hope that this would run tho! I vote GMK haha
GMK would be even more expensive than SP though.
Post by: LXXXIX on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:40:10
You never mentioned if the @HoffmanMyster thing worked in Tapatalk. :P
I just remember @Sifo saying he didn't really care if it was ran again. Just a thought.
It does work, that's why I said it earlier.
It comes up as a "mention".
Sorry bud, I'm an idiot. :'(
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:43:10
Well 250 moq for 110$ right? Yea its more expensive but it would be awesome!I really hope that this would run tho! I vote GMK haha
GMK would be even more expensive than SP though.
Jtk is good option but they don't accept custom order
Post by: romevi on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:24:08
snip
I like doing this so they get a notification too tho
Definitely. On a desktop that's the best way, but selecting text like that can be a huge pain on a phone.
You can also tag people with @nmur for example. :thumb:
Like @rowdy :))
So there is a way to tag people?
@romevi: Did it work?
Nope. Didn't work for me.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:27:59
You never mentioned if the @HoffmanMyster thing worked in Tapatalk. :P
I just remember @Sifo saying he didn't really care if it was ran again. Just a thought.
It does work, that's why I said it earlier.
It comes up as a "mention".
Sorry bud, I'm an idiot. :'(
@romevi I think you need to not have a colon attached to your name. Or it may be a notification option in Tapatalk?
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 11 February 2016, 10:28:10
Again I'm trying to work on something really cool to get the set produced but having no luck with communication. I will do my best to get something done
And Hoff you're free to contribute any thoughts you have, you're part of this too as much as everyone else is.
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 11 February 2016, 10:33:33
Sifo already said he is working something and he has told me what that something was. He just needs to sort things out and then will update you guys.
Post by: Steezus on Thu, 11 February 2016, 11:06:58
Well 250 moq for 110$ right? Yea its more expensive but it would be awesome!I really hope that this would run tho! I vote GMK haha
GMK would be even more expensive than SP though.
Jtk is good option but they don't accept custom order
Where did you get that number? GMK does not have a set price, it all depends on the amount of keys.
Besides the whole start of this was in SA profile.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 11 February 2016, 12:08:06
That we need a BBJ on NN set in SA.
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 11 February 2016, 12:22:48
Do people really dislike DSA that much?
Yes. DSA looks nice but is ****e to type on, and there's a very strong anti-DSA sentiment on the forum.
Guys just be patient and stop freaking the hell out. This thread is giving me cancer.
Sifo already said he is working something and he has told me what that something was. He just needs to sort things out and then will update you guys.
I think what people are getting antsy about is whether to buy into Pulse R2 or wait for this mystery that may or may not happen.
Post by: FLFisherman on Thu, 11 February 2016, 12:23:55
Do people really dislike DSA that much?
Yes. DSA looks nice but is ****e to type on, and there's a very strong anti-DSA sentiment on the forum.
DSA4lyf :(
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 11 February 2016, 12:35:18
Do people really dislike DSA that much?
Yes. DSA looks nice but is ****e to type on, and there's a very strong anti-DSA sentiment on the forum.Guys just be patient and stop freaking the hell out. This thread is giving me cancer.
Sifo already said he is working something and he has told me what that something was. He just needs to sort things out and then will update you guys.
I think what people are getting antsy about is whether to buy into Pulse R2 or wait for this mystery that may or may not happen.
I know people are antsy but if Sifo can't work things out with the direction he is going, then anyone else is allowed to run this colorway through SP.
I am confident that this colorway will come to life in one form or another. It's just a matter of when.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 11 February 2016, 12:48:07
Post by: Glenmael on Sun, 21 February 2016, 03:36:59
Do people really dislike DSA that much?
Yes. DSA looks nice but is ****e to type on, and there's a very strong anti-DSA sentiment on the forum.
DSA4lyf :(
I feel you man :(
Post by: braidn on Sun, 21 February 2016, 12:46:54
Post by: thesiscamper on Mon, 29 February 2016, 22:25:15
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Mon, 29 February 2016, 22:27:56
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Oj5uhfo.png)
Dude! That's gorgeous! :thumb:
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 29 February 2016, 23:12:45
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Oj5uhfo.png)
So pretty... unfortunately the news I got wasn't what we had in mind for profile, and requires some more waiting :\
Post by: whmeltonjr on Mon, 29 February 2016, 23:17:01
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 01 March 2016, 13:03:41
Do people really dislike DSA that much?
Yes. DSA looks nice but is ****e to type on, and there's a very strong anti-DSA sentiment on the forum.
DSA4lyf :(
Two DSA sets in IC phase right now.
Post by: LXXXIX on Mon, 21 March 2016, 19:52:40
Yeah it's been a while, but now that Miami Nights is down the drain maybe we can run this through GMK now. I'm also going to assume this isn't going to happen in SA profile now since SP is backlogged like crazy right now.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 22 March 2016, 01:44:30
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Tue, 22 March 2016, 19:27:41
JTK needs to hurry up and increase capacity ;)
They'll get there. Pretty sure they are still making improvements to the legends.
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 22 March 2016, 20:37:44
Post by: harlw on Thu, 24 March 2016, 08:59:37
hmm... I've gotten a little busier and away from GH lately so no promises... but maybe I'll ask around to see if we can get this going in another profile if people really want.
Cherry profile ftw!
Post by: Jedi on Thu, 24 March 2016, 09:22:11
Post by: simonyunhe on Thu, 24 March 2016, 09:39:33
If you go cherry and maybe move to a non-SA profile, I bet this would be a hot interest check in GMK (German ABS) or JTK (Chinese PBT)Currently the JTK is only into the ABS field, the PBT one is Enjoypbt.
Post by: Bucky on Thu, 24 March 2016, 11:19:07
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Thu, 24 March 2016, 21:19:50
If JTK made this set I would absolutely pick it up. If it was GMK I would consider it but it would be quite a bit more expensive.
I'm with you. I'd only be interested if this ends up in SA or JTK. (Yes, I know one of those are a profile and the other is a manufacturer, you know what I mean)
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 25 March 2016, 03:31:27
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Fri, 25 March 2016, 19:57:32
SA would be just as expensive as GMK.
I'm not choosing SA for the price, but rather the profile.