[IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (on hold see OP)

[Sifo]

Just trying something new. This is still a go, right? ...right? 

Show Image

Wait, this set already got produced?

nope camper just does insanely beautiful renders.

[Elrick]

looking into Massdrop but not sure. definitely not a go with these prices.

Thank you for your work though these renders look so good I want to make it a reality for everyone

You see folks, Sifo cares after all.

Personally I like this kid, a very laid back dude with that "hey, man I slept with your mom last night......... sorry, type of attitude"    .

[UsualSuspectXXX]

iirc, Filco produces spherical high profile caps. Do we know who their OEM is? And has anyone ever contacted them to see if they could produce sets in different colors? Not saying this is a likely avenue, but it might be a possibility.

[SpAmRaY]

iirc, Filco produces spherical high profile caps. Do we know who their OEM is? And has anyone ever contacted them to see if they could produce sets in different colors? Not saying this is a likely avenue, but it might be a possibility.

As far as I know SP makes those for filco

[UsualSuspectXXX]

iirc, Filco produces spherical high profile caps. Do we know who their OEM is? And has anyone ever contacted them to see if they could produce sets in different colors? Not saying this is a likely avenue, but it might be a possibility.

As far as I know SP makes those for filco

>_< damn

[Ail]

Just trying something new. This is still a go, right? ...right? 

Show Image

hrrrngggghhhhhh

Looks so nice. :(

[nosage]

Team, matt3o has been working on [or isn't anymore?] mx compatible beamspring style sculpted doubleshot PBT keycaps.  Supposedly there is a manufacturer.  This needs to happen, in Flatlines' colors.  Make some noise in this thread:

https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/hi-profile-pbt-dye-sub-the-time-has-come-t10805.html

[Machine56]

Jesus fking prime in cybertron...
the EVA 01 / Joker Kit, who do i have to murder to get these back ? any of you willing to trade the kit with the lincoln green papers ?

D:

[Zanduby]

Jesus fking prime in cybertron...
the EVA 01 / Joker Kit, who do i have to murder to get these back ? any of you willing to trade the kit with the lincoln green papers ?

D:

Wrong thread for talking about this.

Post here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76967.0

[tronbeaver]

Yeah, honestly at this point, I think Massdrop would be the way to move this forward. Maybe if you contact whoever is in charge of keycap buys there, they would work with you. I think PMK would be out, because of PuLSE R2.

Mito claims he is selling PuLSE at MassDrop first on Feb 5th.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/42bh8a/pulse_round_2_the_announcement/

[jdcarpe]

Yeah, honestly at this point, I think Massdrop would be the way to move this forward. Maybe if you contact whoever is in charge of keycap buys there, they would work with you. I think PMK would be out, because of PuLSE R2.

Mito claims he is selling PuLSE at MassDrop first on Feb 5th.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/42bh8a/pulse_round_2_the_announcement/

I don't read r/MK, so I wasn't aware MiTo was going with MD for his R2. I assumed he would be running it through PMK, since that's where he did the first round.

[f1xedgear]

Yeah, honestly at this point, I think Massdrop would be the way to move this forward. Maybe if you contact whoever is in charge of keycap buys there, they would work with you. I think PMK would be out, because of PuLSE R2.

Mito claims he is selling PuLSE at MassDrop first on Feb 5th.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/42bh8a/pulse_round_2_the_announcement/

I don't read r/MK, so I wasn't aware MiTo was going with MD for his R2. I assumed he would be running it through PMK, since that's where he did the first round.

According to MiTo, his plan is to run PuLSE R2 on massdrop first, then let PMK stock it indefinitely should they so desire.

[MOZ]

Just trying something new. This is still a go, right? ...right? 

Show Image

Wait, this set already got produced?

nope camper just does insanely beautiful renders.

All this SP nonsense has sapped the fun out of you and you missed my subtle compliment for camper's work.

[Niomosy]

looking into Massdrop but not sure. definitely not a go with these prices.

Thank you for your work though these renders look so good I want to make it a reality for everyone

I don't see why it would be a problem, a lot of people prefer BBJ, and they've dropped reruns of Dolch and Miami knock-offs. The only thing you need to do, I believe, is to provide proof there's enough interest... through polls or something similar.

Quite true.  There's been a lot of positive feedback on the adjustment from BBQ to BBJ in this thread.  I suspect that this thread would be sufficient to show interest in the set.  Wasn't the use of the forum thread as the MassDrop poll equivalent what happened with Troubled Minds?

[livingspeedbump]

looking into Massdrop but not sure. definitely not a go with these prices.

Thank you for your work though these renders look so good I want to make it a reality for everyone

I don't see why it would be a problem, a lot of people prefer BBJ, and they've dropped reruns of Dolch and Miami knock-offs. The only thing you need to do, I believe, is to provide proof there's enough interest... through polls or something similar.

Quite true.  There's been a lot of positive feedback on the adjustment from BBQ to BBJ in this thread.  I suspect that this thread would be sufficient to show interest in the set.  Wasn't the use of the forum thread as the MassDrop poll equivalent what happened with Troubled Minds?

I've said this earlier up, but I know for a fact MD is slammed with sets for months already. Like until Fall, slammed. PMK is going to be a lot quicker bet 

[LXXXIX]

Official statement from SP. Check it out.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426

[lishi]

Official statement from SP. Check it out.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426

It's nice to see transparency from SP, but is it feasible for someone to become a single point of contact for all gh group buys? That seems rather unlikely honestly.

[livingspeedbump]

Official statement from SP. Check it out.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426

It's nice to see transparency from SP, but is it feasible for someone to become a single point of contact for all gh group buys? That seems rather unlikely honestly.

Yeah, but it does make sense from a business perspective and will help track what GH actually buys, etc. I think it is a very fair and informative answer honestly. Finding a person to do that, will indeed be hard.

[LXXXIX]

Official statement from SP. Check it out.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426

It's nice to see transparency from SP, but is it feasible for someone to become a single point of contact for all gh group buys? That seems rather unlikely honestly.

Yeah, but it does make sense from a business perspective and will help track what GH actually buys, etc. I think it is a very fair and informative answer honestly. Finding a person to do that, will indeed be hard.

I thought it was honest and good reply. It's only being fair to get one singular person. Would that also mean shipping out or just creating orders?

[livingspeedbump]

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79164.new#new

I have started a discussion to talk about finding a GH rep here  This will keep the other topics on track

[lishi]

Official statement from SP. Check it out.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426

It's nice to see transparency from SP, but is it feasible for someone to become a single point of contact for all gh group buys? That seems rather unlikely honestly.

Yeah, but it does make sense from a business perspective and will help track what GH actually buys, etc. I think it is a very fair and informative answer honestly. Finding a person to do that, will indeed be hard.

I thought it was honest and good reply. It's only being fair to get one singular person. Would that also mean shipping out or just creating orders?

I'm sure this is the way this would happen if someone stepped up to the plate for this:
The group buy leader would still create interest checks, create mockups, collect money etc.
One point of contact submits orders to SP, receives caps.
Group buy leader then receives caps from the contact person and distributes caps to the participants.


Otherwise, it seems like way too much work to pin on the contact guy.

[Melvang]

Official statement from SP. Check it out.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426

Before I read that thread, who is the SP rep, I didn't see Melissa's name on a very quick skim.

[ghostjuggernaut]

Official statement from SP. Check it out.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426

Before I read that thread, who is the SP rep, I didn't see Melissa's name on a very quick skim.

It appears to be the owner.

[Melvang]

Official statement from SP. Check it out.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426

Before I read that thread, who is the SP rep, I didn't see Melissa's name on a very quick skim.

It appears to be the owner.

What name.will I see on the avatar

[f1xedgear]

Official statement from SP. Check it out.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426

Before I read that thread, who is the SP rep, I didn't see Melissa's name on a very quick skim.

Looks like Bob, the owner, is SMKNGNZ. He mentions Melissa (SPLady) somewhere in his explanation.

[nubbinator]

Keep in mind that they would only consider reviewing pricing if GH were to do that.  He said nothing about getting a rate more in line with historical rates.  He also stated that all shipping would have to go to the contact person.

Honestly, I'd rather just default to GMK at this point.  Easier to work with, better communication, and better pricing on the Cherry profile than SA.

And, while some of it is reasonable explanations, I still find it sad that the assistance provided by the communities of GH and DT to make them visible and capable of running the sets people desire is being dismissed.  It is not entitlement to ask for recognition of that, it is loyalty.  Loyalty is a two way street and I see traffic stopping from the other direction, so I still plan on taking my business elsewhere.

[ghostjuggernaut]

I have to agree with Nubbs.

A few years ago, something like this could have easily occurred with little pushback.  Now that more and more opportunities for caps are emerging, I think that if anything this is a bad business move for SP.  Sure there will still be some sets ran through SP, but I doubt they will gain nearly as much support as in the past.

[FLFisherman]

Sure there will still be some sets ran through SP, but I doubt they will gain nearly as much support as in the past.

I think SP would be okay with this. They have way too much demand, and not enough supply. Losing a little support will help take some stress off them. It's not like they're hurting for business.

Pricing changes, it happens. It sucks (for us consumers), but it's part of doing business. SP can't use historical rates because (as the owner mentioned) they weren't the right prices to begin with.

[switchnollie]

Just trying something new. This is still a go, right? ...right? 

Show Image

Is that an actual TKL housing that exists? :eek:

[nubbinator]

Pricing changes, it happens. It sucks (for us consumers), but it's part of doing business. SP can't use historical rates because (as the owner mentioned) they weren't the right prices to begin with.

Yeah, but the question was why does MD get better rates on a keysets with the same volumes of orders as the community?  Even if the community presented a perfect set with no corrections needed by SP (because Melissa & co's time is valuable) and no custom legends, a set on MD gets better rates at the same numbers of sets.  This is where the comment about loyalty comes in as they would not have MD as a customer if it wasn't for GH and DT.

[FLFisherman]

Pricing changes, it happens. It sucks (for us consumers), but it's part of doing business. SP can't use historical rates because (as the owner mentioned) they weren't the right prices to begin with.

Yeah, but the question was why does MD get better rates on a keysets with the same volumes of orders than the community.  Even if the community presented a perfect set with no corrections needed by SP and no custom legends, a set on MD gets better rates at the same numbers of sets.  This is where the comment about loyalty comes in as they would not have MD as a customer if it wasn't for GH and DT.

Wholesale pricing for the better rates.

However, he mentions that GH can get better pricing if they opt to get a liaison/leader who can serve as the intermediary between the individual group buy leaders and SP. I don't think that's an unfair request.

[Ail]

Official statement from SP. Check it out.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79110.msg2030426.msg#2030426

It's nice to see transparency from SP, but is it feasible for someone to become a single point of contact for all gh group buys? That seems rather unlikely honestly.

Not if they're doing it for free, no not really. If anyone would like to prove us wrong however... 

[Niomosy]

Pricing changes, it happens. It sucks (for us consumers), but it's part of doing business. SP can't use historical rates because (as the owner mentioned) they weren't the right prices to begin with.

Yeah, but the question was why does MD get better rates on a keysets with the same volumes of orders as the community?  Even if the community presented a perfect set with no corrections needed by SP (because Melissa & co's time is valuable) and no custom legends, a set on MD gets better rates at the same numbers of sets.  This is where the comment about loyalty comes in as they would not have MD as a customer if it wasn't for GH and DT.

MassDrop has, in a short amount of time, shown that they can put in massive order volume that would typically take the community much larger to accumulate.  With that, they've been able to negotiate a wholesale pricing discount as noted by SP. 

And sure, MassDrop is doing so well in large part because of the GH, DT, rMK communities.  Yet MassDrop is also bringing in more customers than just the keyboard community while still benefiting the keyboard community; we still get reasonable pricing and with more buyers can look to higher tiers of pricing discounts plus get the added benefit of fast sorting and shipping of product.

[Melvang]

Not trying to say anything bad about either party but **** happens sometimes.  If there is an issue such as bad caps, missing caps, etc.  Between MD and PMK, who has the better track record on fixing these issues?  Is one better in one side of accepting the issue, refunds, or replacements than the other?

[Den441]

This is probably a crazy idea, but how about a crowd funded campaign to get SA molds made? I'm not talking about SP's SA, but a Spherical cap that is super thick and high quality. Maybe even triple shots. Old-school, but MX-compatible. Backers would get the first sets made with the molds(Flatline!) + all that other swag kickstarter campaigns normally include. The Ultimate Hacking keyboard raised over $260,000 with crowdfunding.  We'd also need to find a good injection molding company to use the molds and make caps.

I think this is also something that could get people outside the community interested. They may be inclined to contribute even. With a good campaign, a decent amount of money could be raised for this. The question is how much would the molds cost? If it is a million dollars+ we may indeed be out of luck with producing these for awhile. It may be years from now, but I think something like this will eventually happen if another Spherical cap producer doesn't ever appear. Spherical caps just have a timeless feel to them, and I think they will only continue to grow in popularity as this community grows.

[Niomosy]

This is probably a crazy idea, but how about a crowd funded campaign to get SA molds made? I'm not talking about SP's SA, but a Spherical cap that is super thick and high quality. Maybe even triple shots. Old-school, but MX-compatible. Backers would get the first sets made with the molds(Flatline!) + all that other swag kickstarter campaigns normally include. The Ultimate Hacking keyboard raised over $260,000 with crowdfunding.  We'd also need to find a good injection molding company to use the molds and make caps.

I think this is also something that could get people outside the community interested. They may be inclined to contribute even. With a good campaign, a decent amount of money could be raised for this. The question is how much would the molds cost? If it is a million dollars+ we may indeed be out of luck with producing these for awhile. It may be years from now, but I think something like this will eventually happen if another Spherical cap producer doesn't ever appear. Spherical caps just have a timeless feel to them, and I think they will only continue to grow in popularity as this community grows.

Already being worked on.  https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/hi-profile-pbt-dye-sub-the-time-has-come-t10805.html

Granted, the goal there is dyesub PBT but I think we could get that to work for doubleshot ABS as well.  Matt3o was pretty busy with the White Fox keyboard so he'll hopefully return his attention to this in the near future.

If not that, you can get scans done of other beam spring or hall effect keycaps and use them as a starting point for molds.  Of course, you'll need someone with CAD skills that can get the updates in necessary for things like the ISO enter key, correctly sized space bars for multiple formats, and a few other keys that those old boards aren't going to have.

[zslane]

MassDrop has, in a short amount of time, shown that they can put in massive order volume that would typically take the community much longer to accumulate.

I get the sense that that is regarded as unsubstantiated myth.

[Melvang]

MassDrop has, in a short amount of time, shown that they can put in massive order volume that would typically take the community much longer to accumulate.

I get the sense that that is regarded as unsubstantiated myth.

Not a myth, the last granite drop was close to 6,000 orders on its own.  There are GBs and ICs here on a fairly frequnent basis that can't drum up 150.

[Niomosy]

One thing to be careful of with that MassDrop quantity is that many people can have multiple orders due to child kits.  Here's the list as far as I can see.

Granite was 20769. 
Carbon was at 2657. 
Danger Zone was at 1559. 
Troubled Minds was at 983. 
Jukebox was at 240
DSA Dolch was at 517
DSA Dolch TK/Gamer set was at 90
Galaxy Class was 1271
Infinity DSA Dye-Sub set was 180
DCS Skull Squadron was 165

[zslane]

I guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.

[Niomosy]

I guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.

I think it's that some believe that the other things the community has done with regard to assisting SP in the past would translate into a community discount as well.  At least that's what I've seen in some of the comments. 

[livingspeedbump]

MassDrop has, in a short amount of time, shown that they can put in massive order volume that would typically take the community much longer to accumulate.

I get the sense that that is regarded as unsubstantiated myth.

Not a myth, the last granite drop was close to 6,000 orders on its own.  There are GBs and ICs here on a fairly frequnent basis that can't drum up 150.

Yeah, the long reach of Massdrop is pretty undeniable.

[Melvang]

I guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.

Yeah, there is no mystery, controversy, or conspiracy.  The reason for the sudden price increase for what was quoted to Sifo vs what has been quoted to MD is two fold.  First, massdrops sheer quantity of orders, and two, SP noticed and fixed a problem with their estimation software that had the amount of plastic for the caps at the levels what what DSA is vs SA.  It wasn't noticed because up until a few years ago with the resurgence of "retro" and GH getting SA sets done, these molds hadn't been used for close to 20 years.

[Sifo]

Statement makes sense so thanks SP, but doesn't change the situation of this IC at the moment.

[zslane]

Yeah, this really has the potential to hurt a lot of traditionally run group buys now and in the future. It's like we're in this post-price-correction era now and either buyers are going to have to accept the new higher prices, or sets will have to go through MassDrop (maybe PMK?) to get the needed discounts.

Though from what I can tell, once you apply the wholesale discount and then add MassDrop's markup (which covers quite a number of things), the MassDrop price isn't much different than the raw quote from SP that an individual receives for a group buy.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

I guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.

Yeah, there is no mystery, controversy, or conspiracy.  The reason for the sudden price increase for what was quoted to Sifo vs what has been quoted to MD is two fold.  First, massdrops sheer quantity of orders, and two, SP noticed and fixed a problem with their estimation software that had the amount of plastic for the caps at the levels what what DSA is vs SA.  It wasn't noticed because up until a few years ago with the resurgence of "retro" and GH getting SA sets done, these molds hadn't been used for close to 20 years.

Wow. 20 years. That's quite a long time. Well, I'm very glad that they held on to them for so long.

[bocahgundul]

I guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.

Yeah, there is no mystery, controversy, or conspiracy.  The reason for the sudden price increase for what was quoted to Sifo vs what has been quoted to MD is two fold.  First, massdrops sheer quantity of orders, and two, SP noticed and fixed a problem with their estimation software that had the amount of plastic for the caps at the levels what what DSA is vs SA.  It wasn't noticed because up until a few years ago with the resurgence of "retro" and GH getting SA sets done, these molds hadn't been used for close to 20 years.

Wow. 20 years. That's quite a long time. Well, I'm very glad that they held on to them for so long.

That is a high quality mold right there 

[Melvang]

I guess my thinking, though, is that if the massive difference between MassDrop's order sizes and GH's group buys (over the course of, say, a fiscal year) is so evident and undeniable, then there should be no question as to how MassDrop gets better pricing. Yet the reason behind the price discrepency seems to be a source of great mystery/controversy.

Yeah, there is no mystery, controversy, or conspiracy.  The reason for the sudden price increase for what was quoted to Sifo vs what has been quoted to MD is two fold.  First, massdrops sheer quantity of orders, and two, SP noticed and fixed a problem with their estimation software that had the amount of plastic for the caps at the levels what what DSA is vs SA.  It wasn't noticed because up until a few years ago with the resurgence of "retro" and GH getting SA sets done, these molds hadn't been used for close to 20 years.

Wow. 20 years. That's quite a long time. Well, I'm very glad that they held on to them for so long.

That is a high quality mold right there

Probably stainless, my guess would be 316, or better.

[qwack]

Not a myth, the last granite drop was close to 6,000 orders on its own.  There are GBs and ICs here on a fairly frequnent basis that can't drum up 150.

Probably closer to 1700 orders (with lots of child packs) than 6000: http://www.massdrop.community/mechkeys/granite/index.html

Does not change the picture much though.

[zslane]

BTW, I want to say that while I have no personal stake in the future of Flatline per se, I am sorry that we won't get that Reaper artisan that Sifo showed. I'm not even a fan of artisan caps, but I would have had a tough time resisting the temptation to get one of those to go with my PuLSE set. Oh well...