Author Topic: Gun Porn  (Read 15123 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Gun Porn
« on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 17:53:16 »
I figure this is long overdue. Post some of your favorite firearms. Maybe we could start a separate conversation thread or two as well that's less generalized.

I'll start with one of my favorite rifles, a sporterized U.S. M1917 rifle. It appears that the original barrel has not been cut down from the standard 26 inches.



The Monte Carlo stock, which doesn't seem to be made of particularly fancy wood, is beautifully hand checkered.

   

   

As you can already see, at one point the the trigger guard and magazine floor plate were meticulously hand engraved, all metal parts were polished, and then blued in alternating traditional blue and plum blue colors. My guess is that, at least with the engraving, the work was probably done soon after the occupation of Japan after WWII, as a possible maker's or owner's name was engraved on the inside of most of the engraved parts in Japanese Katakana.

   

   

The scope is just an old Bushmaster 4x that I thought would fit the rifle well. Surprisingly, this rifle cost me less than $300 ... because nobody cares about sporterized milsurps. I don't even want to know what a new production, or even used/vintage commercial rifle with these features would cost me.

Next is a beautiful Lisa Tomlin 1 of 400 Colt Engravers Series 1911. These, apparently, are not exactly engraved. The design is created by the engraver, and they are etched and polished, etc. I still think that this is beautiful, and I plan on putting it in a display case at some point.

   



Finally, here's a few quick shots of my safe as it is at this moment. I guess my camera doesn't like red light, sorry about some of the blurry shots in general. This was a pretty reasonably-priced safe from Menards, which I modified to get power inside to add a goldenrod dehumidifier and wired some red LED light strips up to a motion sensor. I particularly like the color red, but it also isn't so jarring to night vision, etc. I also modified the rack system to facilitate storing rifles with wood stocks with the muzzle down ... which is how all rifles with wood stocks should be stored to prevent oil from seeping into their stocks and ruining them over time.

   

I imagine you may spot some other goodies in here. Leave a comment and/or post some pictures of your own.
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 July 2020, 19:10:02 by Maledicted »

Offline noisyturtle

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 6196
  • comfortably numb
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 17:59:59 »
Dragunov SVD in my opinion is the most beautiful gun ever. Always wanted one, maybe someday.


Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 18:05:14 »
Dragunov SVD in my opinion is the most beautiful gun ever. Always wanted one, maybe someday.

Dragunovs are cool. Look up the Romanian PSL if you want something with the same aesthetics and role, without the ridiculous price tag. I'm pretty sure Classic had them for under $2,000 recently. They're not mechanically the same though. I think the PSL is basically a scaled-up AK chambered in 7.62x54r.

Offline noisyturtle

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 6196
  • comfortably numb
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 18:12:19 »
Dragunov SVD in my opinion is the most beautiful gun ever. Always wanted one, maybe someday.

Dragunovs are cool. Look up the Romanian PSL if you want something with the same aesthetics and role, without the ridiculous price tag. I'm pretty sure Classic had them for under $2,000 recently. They're not mechanically the same though. I think the PSL is basically a scaled-up AK chambered in 7.62x54r.

I've seen the thicc AK conversions, no thanks. Even a Tiger knockoff is like $5-10k I can't imagine what an actual military SVD goes for in gun circles. Finding a private seller, offering them a price of a new car, then still possibly getting turned down. :))

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 18:19:11 »
Dragunov SVD in my opinion is the most beautiful gun ever. Always wanted one, maybe someday.

Dragunovs are cool. Look up the Romanian PSL if you want something with the same aesthetics and role, without the ridiculous price tag. I'm pretty sure Classic had them for under $2,000 recently. They're not mechanically the same though. I think the PSL is basically a scaled-up AK chambered in 7.62x54r.

I've seen the thicc AK conversions, no thanks. Even a Tiger knockoff is like $5-10k I can't imagine what an actual military SVD goes for in gun circles. Finding a private seller, offering them a price of a new car, then still possibly getting turned down. :))

The irony is that they're not even meant to be particularly exceptional rifles. They're meant to be reliable, and able to hit a man-sized target out to maybe 500 or 600 yards. You could just build a random $600-800 AR-10 and come out of it with a lighter, more modular rifle with less recoil and better precision at range.

Offline ddrfraser1

  • Posts: 507
  • Location: Smashville
  • RIP Neil
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 18:59:12 »
Those are all epic pieces. I've never owned a gun or ever particularly wanted to but I do enjoy going to the gun range when I get the chance.

This one time in Dallas, I saw a pair of engraved double barrel shotguns priced at 250 a piece. Ahem... that's... $250,000 a piece.   

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 19:07:12 »
Those are all epic pieces. I've never owned a gun or ever particularly wanted to but I do enjoy going to the gun range when I get the chance.

This one time in Dallas, I saw a pair of engraved double barrel shotguns priced at 250 a piece. Ahem... that's... $250,000 a piece.

Thank you very much. They're my fanciest guns, at present. I have plenty of other weird/random things though.

Range trips really are a lot of fun. I think more people need to experience them if they haven't, if only to get a chance to learn some important gun safety.

What the heck were those shotguns? Were they custom made and engraved in Liege, Belgium or something? I imagine they were over/unders, probably had some precious metal leaf, like gold, worked into the engraving too?

Offline ddrfraser1

  • Posts: 507
  • Location: Smashville
  • RIP Neil
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 20:33:42 »
Those are all epic pieces. I've never owned a gun or ever particularly wanted to but I do enjoy going to the gun range when I get the chance.

This one time in Dallas, I saw a pair of engraved double barrel shotguns priced at 250 a piece. Ahem... that's... $250,000 a piece.

Thank you very much. They're my fanciest guns, at present. I have plenty of other weird/random things though.

Range trips really are a lot of fun. I think more people need to experience them if they haven't, if only to get a chance to learn some important gun safety.

What the heck were those shotguns? Were they custom made and engraved in Liege, Belgium or something? I imagine they were over/unders, probably had some precious metal leaf, like gold, worked into the engraving too?

They were in Highland Park. That probably says it all.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13378
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 21:02:27 »
What's the recommended QuickFireRapid Keyboard of Shotgunz,  pandemic threat protection ?

Offline noisyturtle

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 6196
  • comfortably numb
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 21:19:56 »
What's the recommended QuickFireRapid Keyboard of Shotgunz,  pandemic threat protection ?

Mossberg 500

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 21:24:15 »
I prefer fictional firearms. Here's my personal replica of one of the most iconic movie guns of all time: Deckard's gun from the Blade Runner movies (1982 and 2017)
(Attachment Link)
I tried to make the rust patterns resemble those on the actual prop when displayed at WorldCon in 2006 (?).
I'm not entirely happy about the finish on the upper receiver and lever though.

Nude photo below:
More
(Attachment Link)
Yes, it is made of plastic, and started out as a very thin shell - a limited-edition Japanese watergun that was very detailed. I then built as much as possible of the real gun parts inside, but (as a challenge) using the same material: ABS plastic.
Hopefully, I can hold of a Tomenosuke replica of metal some day. I don't think the domestic gun laws would permit me to have one made from original gun parts. A lot of time was spent on studying those real ones though: Steyr bolt-action rifle and Bulldog '44 revolver.

Mine has unique custom "working" internals with safety bolt-action lever, safety and clicking trigger.
I thought the Gateron Blue clicked louder than a Kailh Box Navy, so I had used one of those.

My pride used to otherwise be my own replica of Han Solo's gun from Star Wars, with the base gun replica extremely modified to resemble the specific war-time pattern Mauser C96 that had been used back in the '70s. It has custom add-on parts of steel, and some of brass and aluminium. Some parts have been professionally salt-blued, others rust-blued, cold-blued or acid-treated by me. Again, dings and scratches have been replicated.
But since Star Wars went to crap and I hate it so much now, the gun is disassembled and stored away and I don't have a picture of the complete assembly.

That's really cool. Using a freaking keyboard switch is a great touch. I just pretend Disney Wars didn't happen. Real Star Wars is still great.

I'm on the hunt, off and on, for a Jericho 941 R of the exact right configuration to be Spike's from Cowboy Bebop. It looks like somebody put some relatively decent grips that match his into production ... instead of having to try to hunt down some from some special edition airsoft gun.

Those are all epic pieces. I've never owned a gun or ever particularly wanted to but I do enjoy going to the gun range when I get the chance.

This one time in Dallas, I saw a pair of engraved double barrel shotguns priced at 250 a piece. Ahem... that's... $250,000 a piece.

Thank you very much. They're my fanciest guns, at present. I have plenty of other weird/random things though.

Range trips really are a lot of fun. I think more people need to experience them if they haven't, if only to get a chance to learn some important gun safety.

What the heck were those shotguns? Were they custom made and engraved in Liege, Belgium or something? I imagine they were over/unders, probably had some precious metal leaf, like gold, worked into the engraving too?

They were in Highland Park. That probably says it all.

I wouldn't know. I have never been as far south as Texas myself. I have family down in Tennessee though. Some pretty cool locations there, even just driving through and seeing some of the Civil War museums.

What's the recommended QuickFireRapid Keyboard of Shotgunz,  pandemic threat protection ?

You're asking about a shotgun, in particular? The KSG is a contender. I wouldn't call it "QuickFireRapid" though. It is pump action, as most shotguns are. It is a bullpup, so it is handy in tight spaces, and it has two separate internal magazines you can switch between in a pinch to change ammo types.



A Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 (though some of the more recent ones are said to have some quality control issues) should do fine too. You would probably want to avoid any of those shorty birdshead grip shotguns as aiming and firing them isn't exactly ideal.



Any shotgun that doesn't have a really short barrel, when loaded with some bird shot should pattern well enough for most home intruder ranges without being as lethal as buckshot and without really having much penetration power should some of the shot hit drywall, miss, etc.

If you're talking about a breakdown of society, an AR-15. Those fire very small high velocity rounds though, so you would need to worry more about over-penetration and effective range should you miss.

247526-0

Not the configuration that I would prefer, but it will work for now.

What's the recommended QuickFireRapid Keyboard of Shotgunz,  pandemic threat protection ?

Mossberg 500

Yes, solid choice. He beat me to it while I was typing this up.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13378
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 21:32:08 »
What's a good price for these. So to confirm these are the end of the wurld Top Pix ?

KSG
Mossberg 500
Remington 870

are these considered heavy or light ? 

Is heavy or light better for home defense, as in If I have to pick it up haphazardly and save myself.

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 21:38:09 »
What's a good price for these. So to confirm these are the end of the wurld Top Pix ?

KSG
Mossberg 500
Remington 870


There's a wonderful website called gun.deals. It is your best friend:

KSG

Mossberg 500 (there are a lot of variants of the Mossberg 500, under slightly different model designations, like the 590, so this search may be a little borked)

Remington 870

Shop around though too. In order to purchase a firearm from the internet, you'll need to find and contact a local FFL dealer. It ships to him or her, and you pay for and do the background check, etc, when you pick it up.

Local laws apply as well, of course. Not sure where you live and what arbitrary features/cosmetic appearances may be banned.

Edit: I missed the rest of your comment. It looks like the Remington would weigh more than the other two, although it isn't exactly extremely heavy either for a long arm. Weight is a double-edged sword. The lighter it is, the more recoil you'll feel in your shoulder, but being lighter also makes it easier to maneuver around with and aim.

For home defense, you want as short of a barrel as you can get away with for maneuvering around corners (shorter barrels also mean wider dispersion though as well, except with a bullpup because a bullpup has a longer barrel than it seems as the action is moved basically all the way back to your shoulder, inside of the stock), and might want a light on the end because you don't want to be blasting away without knowing your target, and what lies beyond it.

I don't think there's any consensus on what the very best home defense shotgun in the world is.

For the end of the world, I would want an AR, personally. That's a heated debate though. Some people prefer AKs, etc. The AK has merits in that you can basically abuse it and use it in any environment without cleaning for extended periods of time. You don't want anything getting into the action though, or it may become a bolt action. The AR is less likely to get anything at all in the action, is lighter recoiling, weighs less, is more accurate, and has way more customization options, but probably requires a little more regular maintenance.
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 July 2020, 22:01:42 by Maledicted »

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6092
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 19 July 2020, 08:01:54 »

What's a good price for these.


Maverick 88 is the economy variant of Mossberg 500 and is around $250 brand new. That is the most reliable choice at a lower price point.
"We must adjust to changing times and still hold to unchanging principles." – The bold and brilliant dream which excited the founders of this Nation still awaits its consummation. Ours was the first society openly to define itself in terms of both spirituality and of human liberty. It is that unique self–definition which has given us an exceptional appeal, but it also imposes on us a special obligation: to take on those moral duties which, when assumed, seem invariably to be in our own best interests.
The American dream endures. We must once again have full faith in our country – and in one another. I believe America can be better. We can be even stronger than before. Let our recent mistakes bring a resurgent commitment to the basic principles of our Nation, for we know that if we despise our own government we have no future. We recall in special times when we have stood briefly, but magnificently, united. In those times no prize was beyond our grasp.
But we cannot dwell upon remembered glory. We cannot afford to drift. Our Government must at the same time be both competent and compassionate. Our Nation can be strong abroad only if it is strong at home. And we know that the best way to enhance freedom in other lands is to demonstrate here that our democratic system is worthy of emulation. To be true to ourselves, we must be true to others. We must not behave in foreign places so as to violate our rules and standards here at home, for we know that the trust which our Nation earns is essential to our strength. 
– excerpts from Jimmy Carter inauguration speech 1977

Offline Olumin

  • Posts: 206
  • Location: "...that famous Texas part of Hamburg"
  • "Guy walks into a doctor's office..."
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 19 July 2020, 14:15:09 »

If you're talking about a breakdown of society, an AR-15. Those fire very small high velocity rounds though, so you would need to worry more about over-penetration and effective range should you miss.

(Attachment Link)

Not the configuration that I would prefer, but it will work for now.


I never got this argument. So many people in the US talking about these sporterized modern Army rifles as if they were a good choice for a "survival situation".

Just no. 5.56 NATO is quite simply inadequate for many hunting applications. Most if not all Medium and of cause large game cannot be reliably taken down using such a intermediate cartridge. Same goes for taking down humans...

What you want is a Full powered rifle cartridge, at the very least a .308, ideally something bigger like 30-06 or 300 Win Mag.

A semi-auto rifle is not of much use in a survival situation, and tempts you to waste your ammo. They are more complex and inherently less reliable. Less easy to clean, maintain, repair etc.

You want a time-proven, rugged, simple Bolt-action chambered in a widely available full-powered military or hunting cartridge. Something like your enfield or a nice pre 64 Winchester 70 in 30-06 would be ideal. An optic would be nice too.



But certainly no 5.56 semi-auto.
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 July 2020, 14:20:29 by Olumin »

Offline hvontres

  • Posts: 145
  • Location: Oceanside, CA
  • Buckling Spring Enthusiast - Full Size Evangelist
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 19 July 2020, 21:40:27 »
Reading this thread makes me wonder if we should start mud testing keyboards....
Except I think a cheap ass rubberdome will survive better than our beloved mechanical wonders.

For reference:


Also, for you gun owners out there, do you prefer tactile or clicky triggers? (I'm guessing a linear trigger would be REALLY bad idea)
Henry von Tresckow

               
1986 Model M 1390131, 1987 Model M 1391401 , 1993 Model M2 Modded Reddragon k556(Test Mule) Boston Prototype (Daily Driver :) )

Offline hvontres

  • Posts: 145
  • Location: Oceanside, CA
  • Buckling Spring Enthusiast - Full Size Evangelist
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 19 July 2020, 21:47:48 »


A Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 (though some of the more recent ones are said to have some quality control issues) should do fine too. You would probably want to avoid any of those shorty birdshead grip shotguns as aiming and firing them isn't exactly ideal.

Show Image


This shows pretty well why a pistol grip only is a bad idea:
Henry von Tresckow

               
1986 Model M 1390131, 1987 Model M 1391401 , 1993 Model M2 Modded Reddragon k556(Test Mule) Boston Prototype (Daily Driver :) )

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 19 July 2020, 22:35:25 »

What's a good price for these.


Maverick 88 is the economy variant of Mossberg 500 and is around $250 brand new. That is the most reliable choice at a lower price point.

Yes, that's a good choice too. I both didn't think of it, but also know that some people take issue with some of the ... cost cutting measures that go into the design. They may not be functional problems at all, but I know I would get a real 500, or modify a Maverick to match myself. What do I know though, my only shotgun is so old that the government doesn't even consider it a firearm. lol


If you're talking about a breakdown of society, an AR-15. Those fire very small high velocity rounds though, so you would need to worry more about over-penetration and effective range should you miss.

(Attachment Link)

Not the configuration that I would prefer, but it will work for now.


I never got this argument. So many people in the US talking about these sporterized modern Army rifles as if they were a good choice for a "survival situation".

Just no. 5.56 NATO is quite simply inadequate for many hunting applications. Most if not all Medium and of cause large game cannot be reliably taken down using such a intermediate cartridge. Same goes for taking down humans...

What you want is a Full powered rifle cartridge, at the very least a .308, ideally something bigger like 30-06 or 300 Win Mag.

A semi-auto rifle is not of much use in a survival situation, and tempts you to waste your ammo. They are more complex and inherently less reliable. Less easy to clean, maintain, repair etc.

You want a time-proven, rugged, simple Bolt-action chambered in a widely available full-powered military or hunting cartridge. Something like your enfield or a nice pre 64 Winchester 70 in 30-06 would be ideal. An optic would be nice too.

Show Image


But certainly no 5.56 semi-auto.


You never got the argument, because you're not addressing the argument.

I don't think anybody advocates for 5.56 for hunting, besides for coyote, etc. That has nothing to do with a breakdown of society. 5.56 is plenty for human targets, when you're not talking about level 4 body armor, and affords you the sweet spot for follow-up shots and/or maintaining situational awareness without a major decrease in effective range, etc. There's a reason that most of the modern world moved away from 8mm, 7.62 (Which NATO even wanted to avoid back in the 50s if it weren't for the U.S.' insistence), etc. It meant less ammo carried, smaller magazine capacity, and more recoil, with no significant practical benefits besides effective range and barrier penetration. M1 Carbines were a common sight in the pacific theater of WWII. These were chambered in the .30 carbine cartridge, which is modernly smeared as an anemic cartridge, and even against some of the fiercest combatants we've ever faced, users had nothing but praise for these rifles. I have read that people would literally ditch M1 Garands (as great of a rifle as this was) in .30-60 if they could get their hands on an M1 Carbine because of how light and handy they were.

The AR-10 has already been mentioned, this is an AR chambered in 7.62 NATO/.308. If I seriously only wanted one rifle for both a breakdown of society and hunting, and could have nothing else, I suppose I would go with that. I don't need to make that choice. I have 3 sporterized M1917 rifles chambered in .30-06, a Yugoslavian M48a in 8mm Mauser, and a Finnish M39 in 7.62x54r. I think I'm set on hunting rifles.

There are those that would say that anything with more energy than .308 is even overkill for the average deer and can needlessly destroy good meat. Many in the U.S. find the sweet spot to be around .30-30. What are you hunting with .300 Win Mag? Elk? We don't have many things that big in the continental U.S.

Semi autos being inherently less reliable would have been true 70 or 80 years ago. Today, that depends on the scenario. There are tests out there, like from InrangeTV, that show that the AR-15 platform can literally be covered in mud and continue to function perfectly regardless so long as the bolt isn't locked back and you dump it inside of the action. On a bolt-action rifle, most of the action is exposed. If you're in very adverse conditions, that can lock a bolt gun down entirely if debris gets into the action. This goes for other situations as well, like ice. Greenland apparently still favors the aforementioned M1917 in extremely cold climates where you may have ice build-up on the action, as it was the best rifle they could find ... since we gave them to them in the 1940s, for continued operation in such an environment. They still use them partly for that reason. The AK, for an example of a semi auto, was also designed with this strength in mind (This is a known weakness of the AR platform, due to tight tolerances).

Modern AR-15s and AKs (and maybe other alternatives) have also been tested to function perfectly for 10s of thousands of rounds straight, without any cleaning whatsoever. Modern lubricious finishes, like Nitride, etc, also help with this.

All that being said, a semi auto, even the best design, is more likely than a bolt gun to suffer a malfunction due to poorly-manufactured ammunition. For whatever that's worth, and however likely it may be if you buy something reputable from a factory.

Another consideration is that any cheap off-the-rack AR-10 is usually going to have a free-float handguard, meaning you've got an entirely free-floated barrel (a premium option in most bolt guns), and there's no traditional stock that the receiver may need to be bedded into to additionally improve accuracy ... as the AR platform was designed, and is implemented, based on extremely tight tolerances allowed by modern machining. You can assemble a sub MOA rifle yourself with a fraction of the cash, time, or knowledge that would be required to get a similarly precise bolt rifle. It will have lower recoil in any given caliber to boot, as a benefit of its gas system.

I think that if anybody is taking multiple shots at game, they probably haven't prepared well enough to begin with, or are taking inherently unethical shots, so I consider that a moot point.

I often wonder, if I ever finally get my hunting license, if I should just use an iron-sighted bolt gun or lever gun. The giant endless woods that is Wisconsin is too dense and hilly for even a 4x scope to be of much use in most situations.

Reading this thread makes me wonder if we should start mud testing keyboards....
Except I think a cheap ass rubberdome will survive better than our beloved mechanical wonders.

Also, for you gun owners out there, do you prefer tactile or clicky triggers? (I'm guessing a linear trigger would be REALLY bad idea)

Another InrangeTV fan. I just watched a few of their videos today.

Yeah, rubberdomes would probably do better ... other than the membrane getting wet, in which case, goodluck. Luckily, I can't think of any real scenario in which we would need to worry about muddy keyboards. lol

I can't think of any triggers that I would consider tactile as oppose to clicky, can you? The trigger moves a sear, the sear releases a hammer or striker, the striker or hammer slam into a primer. I can't say I have ever heard of a gun that doesn't make any noise when you do that. Even the Welrod, which was designed for silent operation, makes nose when the trigger is pulled, doesn't it?



A Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 (though some of the more recent ones are said to have some quality control issues) should do fine too. You would probably want to avoid any of those shorty birdshead grip shotguns as aiming and firing them isn't exactly ideal.

Show Image


This shows pretty well why a pistol grip only is a bad idea:

This is the exact video I had in mind when I said that.  ;D
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 July 2020, 22:41:28 by Maledicted »

Offline hvontres

  • Posts: 145
  • Location: Oceanside, CA
  • Buckling Spring Enthusiast - Full Size Evangelist
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 19 July 2020, 23:42:26 »
Now the real question is who are the Keyboard equivalents of Ian and Othias... I think Chyros gets my vote for "Keyboard Jesus".
Henry von Tresckow

               
1986 Model M 1390131, 1987 Model M 1391401 , 1993 Model M2 Modded Reddragon k556(Test Mule) Boston Prototype (Daily Driver :) )

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 01:08:54 »
Now the real question is who are the Keyboard equivalents of Ian and Othias... I think Chyros gets my vote for "Keyboard Jesus".

Yes, I would say that's a match. I don't really watch any other keyboard Youtubers though since I care mostly about old stuff and clickies, so I wouldn't be able to say for Othias. I like to refer to him as Gun Moses, myself. Not sure if that's picked up or not. I had been neglecting the firearms hobby for months for keyboards.

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 4816
  • Location: Koriko
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 01:18:37 »
Now the real question is who are the Keyboard equivalents of Ian and Othias... I think Chyros gets my vote for "Keyboard Jesus".
Chyros would have to grow some hair first, like Ian's.
Man must shape his tools lest they shape him
-- Arthur Miller

Offline Olumin

  • Posts: 206
  • Location: "...that famous Texas part of Hamburg"
  • "Guy walks into a doctor's office..."
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 07:24:37 »

You never got the argument, because you're not addressing the argument.

I don't think anybody advocates for 5.56 for hunting, besides for coyote, etc. That has nothing to do with a breakdown of society. 5.56 is plenty for human targets, when you're not talking about level 4 body armor, and affords you the sweet spot for follow-up shots and/or maintaining situational awareness without a major decrease in effective range, etc. There's a reason that most of the modern world moved away from 8mm, 7.62 (Which NATO even wanted to avoid back in the 50s if it weren't for the U.S.' insistence), etc. It meant less ammo carried, smaller magazine capacity, and more recoil, with no significant practical benefits besides effective range and barrier penetration. M1 Carbines were a common sight in the pacific theater of WWII. These were chambered in the .30 carbine cartridge, which is modernly smeared as an anemic cartridge, and even against some of the fiercest combatants we've ever faced, users had nothing but praise for these rifles. I have read that people would literally ditch M1 Garands (as great of a rifle as this was) in .30-60 if they could get their hands on an M1 Carbine because of how light and handy they were.

The AR-10 has already been mentioned, this is an AR chambered in 7.62 NATO/.308. If I seriously only wanted one rifle for both a breakdown of society and hunting, and could have nothing else, I suppose I would go with that. I don't need to make that choice. I have 3 sporterized M1917 rifles chambered in .30-06, a Yugoslavian M48a in 8mm Mauser, and a Finnish M39 in 7.62x54r. I think I'm set on hunting rifles.

There are those that would say that anything with more energy than .308 is even overkill for the average deer and can needlessly destroy good meat. Many in the U.S. find the sweet spot to be around .30-30. What are you hunting with .300 Win Mag? Elk? We don't have many things that big in the continental U.S.

Semi autos being inherently less reliable would have been true 70 or 80 years ago. Today, that depends on the scenario. There are tests out there, like from InrangeTV, that show that the AR-15 platform can literally be covered in mud and continue to function perfectly regardless so long as the bolt isn't locked back and you dump it inside of the action. On a bolt-action rifle, most of the action is exposed. If you're in very adverse conditions, that can lock a bolt gun down entirely if debris gets into the action. This goes for other situations as well, like ice. Greenland apparently still favors the aforementioned M1917 in extremely cold climates where you may have ice build-up on the action, as it was the best rifle they could find ... since we gave them to them in the 1940s, for continued operation in such an environment. They still use them partly for that reason. The AK, for an example of a semi auto, was also designed with this strength in mind (This is a known weakness of the AR platform, due to tight tolerances).

Modern AR-15s and AKs (and maybe other alternatives) have also been tested to function perfectly for 10s of thousands of rounds straight, without any cleaning whatsoever. Modern lubricious finishes, like Nitride, etc, also help with this.

All that being said, a semi auto, even the best design, is more likely than a bolt gun to suffer a malfunction due to poorly-manufactured ammunition. For whatever that's worth, and however likely it may be if you buy something reputable from a factory.

Another consideration is that any cheap off-the-rack AR-10 is usually going to have a free-float handguard, meaning you've got an entirely free-floated barrel (a premium option in most bolt guns), and there's no traditional stock that the receiver may need to be bedded into to additionally improve accuracy ... as the AR platform was designed, and is implemented, based on extremely tight tolerances allowed by modern machining. You can assemble a sub MOA rifle yourself with a fraction of the cash, time, or knowledge that would be required to get a similarly precise bolt rifle. It will have lower recoil in any given caliber to boot, as a benefit of its gas system.

I think that if anybody is taking multiple shots at game, they probably haven't prepared well enough to begin with, or are taking inherently unethical shots, so I consider that a moot point.

I often wonder, if I ever finally get my hunting license, if I should just use an iron-sighted bolt gun or lever gun. The giant endless woods that is Wisconsin is too dense and hilly for even a 4x scope to be of much use in most situations.


You are mostly referring to the development of arms in a military context here, I am not. A "survival rifle" does not equal a military battle or assault rifle. 5.56 being "good enough" is not good enough. You always want something that is more than adequate. Full powered rounds like .308 and up are proven to have much greater lethality on both animals AND humans. Read reports from field medics.

Little recoil for fast follow-up shots and great mag. capacity are important for an army gun, not such much for a hunting or "survival" rifle. Id rather have a more powerful round I know can do any job and trade that for lower capacity (5 rounds are plenty), then an intermediate round which may be adequate for most jobs.

Most rifles, bolt action or not, outperform the shooter in terms of accuracy by a large margin. Accuracy is never going to be a problem no matter what gun, and depends much more on ammunition, cartridge and range/windage/weather then anything else.

Semi autos simply function less reliably with low quality or old ammo, both of which one is likely to be shooting after a wile in a “breakdown or society” scenario, rather than quality factory-new ammo that may run well in your AR.

A rifle one would want in a survival situation requires long term reliability, simplicity of construction and the ability to function in a wide variety of environments, temperatures and with a wide variety of Ammunition, regardless of manufacturer or condition/age. It is simply a fact that a bolt action performs better in these regards then any semi or fully automatic rifle ever will. End of Argument.


Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6092
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 08:27:15 »

some people take issue with some of the ... cost cutting measures that go into the design


Kind of like the way people have issues with the cost-cutting measures that morphed the Model F into the Model M?
"We must adjust to changing times and still hold to unchanging principles." – The bold and brilliant dream which excited the founders of this Nation still awaits its consummation. Ours was the first society openly to define itself in terms of both spirituality and of human liberty. It is that unique self–definition which has given us an exceptional appeal, but it also imposes on us a special obligation: to take on those moral duties which, when assumed, seem invariably to be in our own best interests.
The American dream endures. We must once again have full faith in our country – and in one another. I believe America can be better. We can be even stronger than before. Let our recent mistakes bring a resurgent commitment to the basic principles of our Nation, for we know that if we despise our own government we have no future. We recall in special times when we have stood briefly, but magnificently, united. In those times no prize was beyond our grasp.
But we cannot dwell upon remembered glory. We cannot afford to drift. Our Government must at the same time be both competent and compassionate. Our Nation can be strong abroad only if it is strong at home. And we know that the best way to enhance freedom in other lands is to demonstrate here that our democratic system is worthy of emulation. To be true to ourselves, we must be true to others. We must not behave in foreign places so as to violate our rules and standards here at home, for we know that the trust which our Nation earns is essential to our strength. 
– excerpts from Jimmy Carter inauguration speech 1977

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 10:32:59 »
Now the real question is who are the Keyboard equivalents of Ian and Othias... I think Chyros gets my vote for "Keyboard Jesus".
Chyros would have to grow some hair first, like Ian's.

Ha, good point. I can't picture him rocking Ian's do, but maybe.

You are mostly referring to the development of arms in a military context here, I am not. A "survival rifle" does not equal a military battle or assault rifle. 5.56 being "good enough" is not good enough. You always want something that is more than adequate. Full powered rounds like .308 and up are proven to have much greater lethality on both animals AND humans. Read reports from field medics.

Yes, I am, although whether or not the ammunition was developed for a military has nothing at all to do with its effectiveness in other situations. If anything, the way you're framing it skews it the other way, because the military has to commonly deal with armor, so they should be giving everybody something chambered in .308 with armor penetrating rounds, right? Nope. 5.56 eliminates the threat. Lethality is irrelevant ... and somewhat morbid, taking something out of the fight is all that matters. Did I not make "a breakdown of society" clear? If you live out in the middle of nowhere, where the population density is minuscule and/or most people are also themselves individualists who just want to protect themselves and theirs, then some overpowered cartridge in a heavy-recoiling bolt gun is mostly fine, although some magnified optic is also going to put you at a major disadvantage at close range (you know ... a self defense range) in acquiring a target. That's a limited scenario, and not even one that's guaranteed in most places. If there's a mob of 100 angry looters marching down your street, you may as well be using that bolt gun as a club.

Little recoil for fast follow-up shots and great mag. capacity are important for an army gun, not such much for a hunting or "survival" rifle. Id rather have a more powerful round I know can do any job and trade that for lower capacity (5 rounds are plenty), then an intermediate round which may be adequate for most jobs.

First, see above. Most people can't just hunt in their backyards anyway, and even if they could, ye olde hunting rifle is not the be-all-end-all solution to all of their problems. A breakdown of society IS a military application, or worse. Most "survival" rifles are chambered in .22, and a good chunk of those are even take-down models and/or semi automatic, since the only goal with those is to be able to hit small game that you can cook for yourself, so where are you going with this whole "survival" scenario?

Most rifles, bolt action or not, outperform the shooter in terms of accuracy by a large margin. Accuracy is never going to be a problem no matter what gun, and depends much more on ammunition, cartridge and range/windage/weather then anything else.

Whether or not accuracy matters depends on the range, your optic, and how it may be zeroed, although range is the biggest factor. I would argue that cartridge is almost irrelevant unless we're talking horrible cartridges against the best, like 7.62x39 ... which is pretty terrible. It is true that it would be basically irrelevant in most practical applications, but the point stands that an AR-10 can do everything and more than a similarly-priced modern bolt gun. You're talking to somebody who absolutely loves bolt guns. I can still see the objective benefits to alternatives.

Semi autos simply function less reliably with low quality or old ammo, both of which one is likely to be shooting after a wile in a “breakdown or society” scenario, rather than quality factory-new ammo that may run well in your AR.

When manufactured properly, and stored well, ammo will keep like new for decades. I pack all of mine with desiccant, as anyone should if even just to store it until range time. Even then, unless the ammo was of poor quality to begin with, resulting malfunctions should be low. I have put hundreds of rounds of cheap remanufactured 5.56 through one of my ARs without a single issue yet.


A rifle one would want in a survival situation requires long term reliability, simplicity of construction and the ability to function in a wide variety of environments, temperatures and with a wide variety of Ammunition, regardless of manufacturer or condition/age. It is simply a fact that a bolt action performs better in these regards then any semi or fully automatic rifle ever will. End of Argument. [/size]

Did I not make it clear enough in my previous post that reliability in different environments and temperatures has more to do with an individual design than it does the action type? You can't just take any bolt gun to the arctic circle and expect it to always work perfectly ... you can with an AK. That's one example of many. Your only point is ammunition, and most modern ammunition, in a semi auto with modern engineering, manufacturing, and finishes, makes this all but entirely moot. The one thing I would even say would be a major benefit to the bolt gun in that regard is those of the old Mauser type with the wonderful controlled-feed extractor type. Most bolt guns made now are of very cheap design and manufacture.


some people take issue with some of the ... cost cutting measures that go into the design


Kind of like the way people have issues with the cost-cutting measures that morphed the Model F into the Model M?


Well, yes, and I dislike the Model M partly for those reasons. You could call that picky, it would be fair. When you're talking about a defensive arm though, I would say that it is not unreasonable to be sure that cost cutting measures will in no way have the potential to inhibit function.

Offline Darthbaggins

  • Posts: 457
  • Location: Acworth, GA
  • PC Cannibal
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 15:39:36 »
Reading this thread makes me wonder if we should start mud testing keyboards....
Except I think a cheap ass rubberdome will survive better than our beloved mechanical wonders.

For reference:


Also, for you gun owners out there, do you prefer tactile or clicky triggers? (I'm guessing a linear trigger would be REALLY bad idea)

I would relate a .38 special as the closest firearm that would be nearly linear, or at least the version my mom had that I got to use at the range.  Only firearm I have currently is a Taurus Millenium Pro PT145 - I've had it for 8 years and has been an amazing pistol, especially for its compact size (also mine hasn't suffered from the recall issue they supposedly have). A nice .45 10 +1 round capacity that can be concealed with ease in a pocket or proper concealed holster.  I bought it as my 30th birthday gift to myself.

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D


Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 15:10:38 »
I would relate a .38 special as the closest firearm that would be nearly linear, or at least the version my mom had that I got to use at the range.  Only firearm I have currently is a Taurus Millenium Pro PT145 - I've had it for 8 years and has been an amazing pistol, especially for its compact size (also mine hasn't suffered from the recall issue they supposedly have). A nice .45 10 +1 round capacity that can be concealed with ease in a pocket or proper concealed holster.  I bought it as my 30th birthday gift to myself.

By .38 special, do you mean something like a Smith & Wesson? If so, you make a good point. Revolver triggers are not all created equal, but that's something I hadn't really thought about. A good old Smith is going to have what can only be described as a perfectly smooth pull in either single or double action. There's still a click when the hammer falls, and  the lockwork usually makes some noise, but there's not really a tactile event in some of those old wheelguns. My Taurus Model 85 is not so well-endowed, but in single action it is relatively the same ... once I did a lot of dry fire with it.

I have drooled over Taurus' millennium series for years. I imagine that PT145 is probably one of the few handguns like it ever produced, being an extremely small double stack .45. I wouldn't mind owning one myself if I ever come across one. I have a descendant in the G2C. It is currently my go-to carry gun. Ironic, considering I have a beautiful Sig P238 and P938, which I used to carry, just sitting in the safe.

Offline noisyturtle

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 6196
  • comfortably numb
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 28 September 2020, 18:48:58 »
This thing is rad, I really want one. 1911 Dueller Prismatic, one of the most American handguns I ever did see.
252637-0

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13378
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 28 September 2020, 19:00:16 »
This thing is rad, I really want one. 1911 Dueller Prismatic, one of the most American handguns I ever did see.
(Attachment Link)

Featured bad guy weapon in quantum of solace (film)

Offline Darthbaggins

  • Posts: 457
  • Location: Acworth, GA
  • PC Cannibal
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 29 September 2020, 08:17:50 »
I would relate a .38 special as the closest firearm that would be nearly linear, or at least the version my mom had that I got to use at the range.  Only firearm I have currently is a Taurus Millenium Pro PT145 - I've had it for 8 years and has been an amazing pistol, especially for its compact size (also mine hasn't suffered from the recall issue they supposedly have). A nice .45 10 +1 round capacity that can be concealed with ease in a pocket or proper concealed holster.  I bought it as my 30th birthday gift to myself.

By .38 special, do you mean something like a Smith & Wesson? If so, you make a good point. Revolver triggers are not all created equal, but that's something I hadn't really thought about. A good old Smith is going to have what can only be described as a perfectly smooth pull in either single or double action. There's still a click when the hammer falls, and  the lockwork usually makes some noise, but there's not really a tactile event in some of those old wheelguns. My Taurus Model 85 is not so well-endowed, but in single action it is relatively the same ... once I did a lot of dry fire with it.

I have drooled over Taurus' millennium series for years. I imagine that PT145 is probably one of the few handguns like it ever produced, being an extremely small double stack .45. I wouldn't mind owning one myself if I ever come across one. I have a descendant in the G2C. It is currently my go-to carry gun. Ironic, considering I have a beautiful Sig P238 and P938, which I used to carry, just sitting in the safe.

The S&W my mom had was a hammerless option (no visible external hammer).  That was an a fun gun to shoot along w/.  I've been eyeing the replacement for the PT145 since Taurus updated them (some had a defect where the trigger would activate even w/ the safety engaged - of course when storing I always used the built in lock).  Also my uncle has been thinking of off-loading his HK vp40 - trying to persuade him to pass it on to me (thanks to his neighbor he's been getting amazing deals on firearms). 
I'm excited that my father-in-law and I get to start teaching my son about firearm safety and use (he'll be 6 on the 21st) - so far he's enjoyed his nerf guns and we've started allowing him to use the air-rifle (highly supervised of course) to do target shooting in the back yard.  Reason why I'm more excited is due to the fact FiL recently picked up a nice AR-15 variant that I want to ping some targets with at the farm/hunting property - always love shooting rifles more than anything else.

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D


Offline iri

  • Posts: 959
  • Location: 'Great' Britain
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 14 October 2020, 02:57:16 »
I need to go outside Offtopic more often. Othewise, how would I know that people find SVD beautiful.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline retoid

  • Posts: 110
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 12 December 2020, 00:58:53 »
I figure this is long overdue. Post some of your favorite firearms. Maybe we could start a separate conversation thread or two as well that's less generalized.

I'll start with one of my favorite rifles, a sporterized U.S. M1917 rifle. It appears that the original barrel has not been cut down from the standard 26 inches.

Show Image


The Monte Carlo stock, which doesn't seem to be made of particularly fancy wood, is beautifully hand checkered.

Show Image
   
Show Image


Show Image
   
Show Image


As you can already see, at one point the the trigger guard and magazine floor plate were meticulously hand engraved, all metal parts were polished, and then blued in alternating traditional blue and plum blue colors. My guess is that, at least with the engraving, the work was probably done soon after the occupation of Japan after WWII, as a possible maker's or owner's name was engraved on the inside of most of the engraved parts in Japanese Katakana.

Show Image
   
Show Image


Show Image
   
Show Image


The scope is just an old Bushmaster 4x that I thought would fit the rifle well. Surprisingly, this rifle cost me less than $300 ... because nobody cares about sporterized milsurps. I don't even want to know what a new production, or even used/vintage commercial rifle with these features would cost me.

Next is a beautiful Lisa Tomlin 1 of 400 Colt Engravers Series 1911. These, apparently, are not exactly engraved. The design is created by the engraver, and they are etched and polished, etc. I still think that this is beautiful, and I plan on putting it in a display case at some point.

Show Image
   
Show Image


Show Image


What beauties! Those are really nice looking.

My latest project is a 10/22 Takedown with a Magpul Backpacker stock.
The only thing left on it that is Ruger is the receiver. Everything else is aftermarket.




Got my pup geared up too :D


Offline Tactile

  • Posts: 1357
  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 12 December 2020, 09:35:52 »
A couple of my .45s:
257818-0
This 442 is with me more than any other:
257820-1

Offline noisyturtle

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 6196
  • comfortably numb
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 02 January 2021, 04:26:05 »
276 Padersen




Offline yqqdrasil

  • Posts: 44
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 02 January 2021, 04:58:48 »
I love guns. Went to a range in Vegas and shot everything they had. Unfortunately they're heavily regulated here and near impossible to get a concealed carry permit. If mine ever gets accepted I plan on getting a Five Seven.

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 07 January 2021, 20:16:32 »
I would relate a .38 special as the closest firearm that would be nearly linear, or at least the version my mom had that I got to use at the range.  Only firearm I have currently is a Taurus Millenium Pro PT145 - I've had it for 8 years and has been an amazing pistol, especially for its compact size (also mine hasn't suffered from the recall issue they supposedly have). A nice .45 10 +1 round capacity that can be concealed with ease in a pocket or proper concealed holster.  I bought it as my 30th birthday gift to myself.

By .38 special, do you mean something like a Smith & Wesson? If so, you make a good point. Revolver triggers are not all created equal, but that's something I hadn't really thought about. A good old Smith is going to have what can only be described as a perfectly smooth pull in either single or double action. There's still a click when the hammer falls, and  the lockwork usually makes some noise, but there's not really a tactile event in some of those old wheelguns. My Taurus Model 85 is not so well-endowed, but in single action it is relatively the same ... once I did a lot of dry fire with it.

I have drooled over Taurus' millennium series for years. I imagine that PT145 is probably one of the few handguns like it ever produced, being an extremely small double stack .45. I wouldn't mind owning one myself if I ever come across one. I have a descendant in the G2C. It is currently my go-to carry gun. Ironic, considering I have a beautiful Sig P238 and P938, which I used to carry, just sitting in the safe.

The S&W my mom had was a hammerless option (no visible external hammer).  That was an a fun gun to shoot along w/.  I've been eyeing the replacement for the PT145 since Taurus updated them (some had a defect where the trigger would activate even w/ the safety engaged - of course when storing I always used the built in lock).  Also my uncle has been thinking of off-loading his HK vp40 - trying to persuade him to pass it on to me (thanks to his neighbor he's been getting amazing deals on firearms). 
I'm excited that my father-in-law and I get to start teaching my son about firearm safety and use (he'll be 6 on the 21st) - so far he's enjoyed his nerf guns and we've started allowing him to use the air-rifle (highly supervised of course) to do target shooting in the back yard.  Reason why I'm more excited is due to the fact FiL recently picked up a nice AR-15 variant that I want to ping some targets with at the farm/hunting property - always love shooting rifles more than anything else.

Those hammerless snubbies are nice for pocket carry. Didn't the striker only release on those millenniums if you monkeyed with the trigger and safety in some specific series of actions and then took the safety off? It shouldn't happen, of course, but you basically had to want it to happen for it to happen. HK makes some sweet shooters. My USP45 seriously shoots as nicely as my 9mms. I have been drooling over the P30 myself ever since a range trip with a friend that had one years ago. Did you ever wrench it away from him?

Good luck with the safety training. I wish it were more widespread. I'm a firm believer in removing that curiosity in firearms as soon as possible. If someone's raised to respect them, and remove all of the mystique around them with some regular range trips, there's little reason to want to play with them unsupervised. Not that that should ever be a likely scenario to begin with.

AR variant? What sort of variant? did you ever get to shoot it? I saw a weird old bullpup AR-ish rifle from the 90s at a shop recently. I very nearly picked it up.

I need to go outside Offtopic more often. Othewise, how would I know that people find SVD beautiful.

I'm really late to catch up here, but why wouldn't you think people find the SVD beautiful? PPSh-41 and SVT-40 are pretty slick too, in my opinion. I can't think of anything else offhand, but I don't get the impression that Russian gun designers are too concerned with aesthetics.

What beauties! Those are really nice looking.

Thank you very much, and also thanks for sticking to the topic. I didn't hold any punches, unfortunately. I can't top what I've already posted, at least as far as bling goes.

My latest project is a 10/22 Takedown with a Magpul Backpacker stock.
The only thing left on it that is Ruger is the receiver. Everything else is aftermarket.

Very nice. I have looked at those stocks myself, though I don't yet own any .22 rifles ... ironically. It is always interesting to see what people do with takedown configurations. Is that meant as a hiking/survivalist rig? My only takedown model is an 1897 shotgun. The irony never ends.

Got my pup geared up too :D

Cool. What's the dog packing?

A couple of my .45s:

Very nice. I always took you for a .45 guy. Must be the profile picture. Does that MKIV still have a collet bushing? I have a nickel MKIV. Those bushings sure look fragile. Unfortunately, I don't own any Colt commanders (yet), but I've got some nice Ruger Nightwatchmen and a surprisingly sweet Charles Daly (after heavy modification). Commanders have a little spicy recoil, kind of endearing. Looks like you had some stippling done on the front strap?

This 442 is with me more than any other:

Solid carry piece.  :thumb:

276 Padersen

Pedersen was a genius, and .276 Pedersen should have dethroned .30-06. It is a shame that toggle lock rifle never saw any commercial production.


I love guns. Went to a range in Vegas and shot everything they had. Unfortunately they're heavily regulated here and near impossible to get a concealed carry permit. If mine ever gets accepted I plan on getting a Five Seven.

Awesome. What did you get a chance to shoot?

Where's here? I think a Florida CCW covers the majority of the states on its own. A major city then maybe? National reciprocity would have been nice, if only so you don't need to study for the Bar Exam just to prevent accidentally committing felonies by crossing state lines.

Five-sevens are cool and all but they're not very practical. They were designed with a very specific purpose: a personal defense weapon with an emphasis on armor penetration. The problem is that armor has come a long way since 1990, and a $200 surplus TT-33 clone spitting 7.62 Tokarev isn't going to perform much worse than a $1,000 (pre apocalypse) Five-seven in terms of penetration. The ammo is a lot cheaper too. Food for thought, you may well already know all of that. I would maybe buy it as a range toy down the road, but not as a first carry gun.
« Last Edit: Thu, 07 January 2021, 20:20:37 by Maledicted »

Offline yqqdrasil

  • Posts: 44
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 07 January 2021, 22:55:25 »
Before I went to the range I shot a 357 Magnum (when I was like 8 or 9), S&W 9mm - can't remember which one exactly, and a Saiga-12. When I went to the range in Vegas, it was on a business trip so I didn't have much leisure time so I bought the biggest package they offered and shot more guns than I can remember.. Notable mentions were the M249 SAW, AK74-SU, Uzi, Thompson, Desert Eagle, M4, M16, and an MP5. I have a video of it in my archives somewhere but the quality is potato.

I'd rather not say where, but I'm in a 3rd world country, gotta grease a few palms or be somebody of note to get a license.

And yea I know a Five Seven isn't exactly a practical gun but I love how they look, never shot one so I wouldn't pull the trigger on buying one if I got my license without testing it. It'd definitely be a range toy ;D

As for an actual CCW I've always considered a Beretta, or one of the Glock variants. But again, I've never got the chance to test any of these, and I wouldn't buy a gun without getting to shoot it, which is something I'd have to fly to the states to do.
« Last Edit: Fri, 08 January 2021, 10:15:40 by yqqdrasil »

Offline Tactile

  • Posts: 1357
  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 08 January 2021, 08:41:15 »
...
Very nice. I always took you for a .45 guy. Must be the profile picture. Does that MKIV still have a collet bushing? I have a nickel MKIV. Those bushings sure look fragile.
...
This MK IV is one of the recent manufacture O1970A1CS which Colt discontinued a couple of years ago. No colleted barrel bushing, just a plain GI-style setup.

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 10 January 2021, 04:29:36 »
Before I went to the range I shot a 357 Magnum (when I was like 8 or 9), S&W 9mm - can't remember which one exactly, and a Saiga-12. When I went to the range in Vegas, it was on a business trip so I didn't have much leisure time so I bought the biggest package they offered and shot more guns than I can remember.. Notable mentions were the M249 SAW, AK74-SU, Uzi, Thompson, Desert Eagle, M4, M16, and an MP5. I have a video of it in my archives somewhere but the quality is potato.

It sounds like you've shot things most people have never shot here. I haven't had the chance to shoot anything full auto myself. If the Smith was a semi auto, the only ones they've currently got in production (And for a good deal of time now) are the SD9 VE, which always has a stainless slide or the M&P9, which is always a black Melonite finish. Did it have a polymer frame? If it had a metal frame, it would be a 1st through 3rd generation semi auto Smith. I have an M&P9 myself. It is my bedside gun. Fantastic once the terrible stock trigger was replaced.

I'd rather not say where, but I'm in a 3rd world country, gotta grease a few palms or be somebody of note to get a license.

That's a shame, I hope that changes.

As for an actual CCW I've always considered a Beretta, or one of the Glock variants. But again, I've never got the chance to test any of these, and I wouldn't buy a gun without getting to shoot it, which is something I'd have to fly to the states to do.

Beretta 92, or maybe PX4? The Beretta 92 is kind of chunky. It wouldn't be easy to conceal without a shoulder rig (and I carry 1911s and Jericho 941s sometimes in the winter). They've got actions like glass though, and sweet triggers. At least my oldschool 92S does. Really easy to field strip too. I have never shot a Glock myself. I don't consider the trigger dingus to be a safety, and prefer to have one unless it is a revolver. I have dry fired a family member's though. Handling and ergonomics seem fine otherwise, they just have an odd grip angle.

I usually carry a subcompact in a wallet holster myself, because I'm lazy, and concealment is basically guaranteed since it only prints like a wallet. I usually pair that with a Sticky Holsters double mag pouch in another pocket.

...
Very nice. I always took you for a .45 guy. Must be the profile picture. Does that MKIV still have a collet bushing? I have a nickel MKIV. Those bushings sure look fragile.
...
This MK IV is one of the recent manufacture O1970A1CS which Colt discontinued a couple of years ago. No colleted barrel bushing, just a plain GI-style setup.

Right, I forgot they kept making the MKIV when they stopped making series 70s. Did you have stippling done on the commander?

Offline Tactile

  • Posts: 1357
  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 10 January 2021, 09:47:34 »
Right, I forgot they kept making the MKIV when they stopped making series 70s. Did you have stippling done on the commander?

I found the Commander used in a gun shop. It was manufactured in 1991 & someone had the stippling done and the grip safety changed at some point.

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 14 January 2021, 22:36:33 »
Right, I forgot they kept making the MKIV when they stopped making series 70s. Did you have stippling done on the commander?

I found the Commander used in a gun shop. It was manufactured in 1991 & someone had the stippling done and the grip safety changed at some point.

Nice. Did you get it for a good price? It looks like they did a good job cutting that beavertail I can't imagine they were doing Novak rear sights from the factory on any models way back then either. The trigger looks custom as well. I imagine they took all of the pretravel and overtravel out of it? Nice crisp break?

I did a trigger job (and I mean no cut corners) to my Taurus PT1911 and, I kid you not, it still feels much worse than the stock trigger on my Colt Combat Elite. I guess not all series 80s are redeemable. Those Tauruses are particularly crappy ... in every way.

Here's two of my most recent additions:

259874-0

This is a Black Aces Tactical Pro Series Bullpup. It is semi automatic and takes box magazines ... or 20 round drums, in my case. It has a left side charging handle (I wish more things did) and otherwise AR-esque ergonomics. It takes any standard AR-15 pistol grips, but the rubber overmold one that comes on it is quite nice. I threw a Holosun 510c red dot and TLR-1 HL light on it. I figure that should be a mighty capable home defense/zombie apocalypse gun.

259876-1

Frequent InRangeTV viewers will recognize the rifle on the left (the chamber is empty). I assembled my first AR from the ground up based on their WWSD project. I think mine is actually quite a bit lighter since the JAG Composites carbon fiber handguard weighs about 2 ounces less than even the Faxon one they use. I used the recently-released KP-15 polymer monolithic lower, KE Arms' SLT-2 trigger (because it eliminates the rare occurrence of debris jamming up the fire control group), a Faxon 16" overall pencil barrel with integrated birdcage flash hider, an Aero upper sans forward assist, the Armaspec Stealth captured recoil buffer system, the Geissele Super Charging Handle, a Toolcraft nitride BCG, a Holosun HS515CM red dot, Holosun HM3X 3x magnifier, and some random generic AR grip sleeve.

The rifle on the right edge of the frame is an oldschool Bushmaster Carbon 15 (for comparison). These are very light rifles in their own right. Even so, I can tell that the WWSD carbine, with all attachments and a full magazine weighs noticeably less than the Carbon 15 with no sights, attachments, or magazine.
« Last Edit: Thu, 14 January 2021, 22:38:05 by Maledicted »

Offline Tactile

  • Posts: 1357
  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 16:40:08 »

Nice. Did you get it for a good price? It looks like they did a good job cutting that beavertail I can't imagine they were doing Novak rear sights from the factory on any models way back then either. The trigger looks custom as well. I imagine they took all of the pretravel and overtravel out of it? Nice crisp break?


The price was $700. I was shoving my money at the salesman so fast I almost poked him in the eye. The trigger pull is marvelous. I'm not nearly as finicky about 1911 triggers as a lot of folks but that doesn't mean I don't recognize or appreciate a pistol with a nice trigger. This one's great.

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 10:37:42 »

Nice. Did you get it for a good price? It looks like they did a good job cutting that beavertail I can't imagine they were doing Novak rear sights from the factory on any models way back then either. The trigger looks custom as well. I imagine they took all of the pretravel and overtravel out of it? Nice crisp break?


The price was $700. I was shoving my money at the salesman so fast I almost poked him in the eye. The trigger pull is marvelous. I'm not nearly as finicky about 1911 triggers as a lot of folks but that doesn't mean I don't recognize or appreciate a pistol with a nice trigger. This one's great.

$700 is great even for a stock plain Jane Colt, especially one that's stainless. Nice Score. Well, you don't need to be finicky with a Colt. I haven't felt a stock Colt trigger that wasn't great. It might not be as good as an ideal trigger job, but it is close enough. The only stock trigger I have felt that's better (I have never held one of the fancy factory customs) is a Filipino series 70 Metro Arms American Classic II. It was even better than my Series 70 Colt MK IV. Quality 1911s lacking the firing pin safety aren't too common these days though, so I don't have many to compare. My Rugers seem to have surprisingly bad stock triggers.

Offline TheWonderBubble

  • Posts: 54
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 07 June 2021, 09:00:53 »
Oh hey, a thread on this site with a topic I'm actually familiar with!  ;D



My main build:


Rugged Radiant762 suppressor, 16" barrel, LaRue 12.0 quadrail, GG&G bipod, PRI scope mount, Vortex PST Gen 1 2.5-10x, BCM upper, Geissele SSA-E, ACE SOCOM stock.




55gr bulk FMJ performed better than I expected out to 560y, but the 77gr was just pure joy.

My short boi:

Same suppressor, Rainier Select 8" 300blk, SLR Sentry 7 adjustable gas, V7 Magnesium hyper-light forend, Bootleg upper, Young MFG Ultralight BCG, PWS Mk1 Mod 2-M lower, MVB ARC-X Ti PDW stock. Weighs only a bit over 6lbs as configured. This rig alone is what keeps me from feeling like keyboards are really all that expensive.  :'(

My daily-driver:


PF940CL (17 length slide, 19 length grip), basically stock except barrel, 6lb trigger spring, OEM -connector, upgraded ejector, and a couple NiB internals (trigger bar, I think one or two others). Basically a slightly smoother pull with a more positive reset but otherwise left alone. Standard Co USA holster, works great. Also a SOFTT-W, because if you carry a gun but not medical, you have your priorities all backwards.
Shhhhh...my wallet doesn't know I'm here.


Offline TheWonderBubble

  • Posts: 54
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 07 June 2021, 09:49:38 »
What's the recommended QuickFireRapid Keyboard of Shotgunz,  pandemic threat protection ?

Probably going to start a fight here but I'm okay with that because I really want to see people as best equipped and prepared as they can be - a shotgun is the worst option available. As others have mentioned, the go-to base standard in that regard is going to be the Mossberg 500. But for "threat protection," between rifles, pistols, and shotguns, the shotgun is going to be at the bottom of the list every single time with only one exception I'll cover in a bit. Compared to an AR or similar carbine, you give up capacity, ease of use, reliability, handling, basically everything that actually matters when it comes to defensive use.

  • Capacity: 5 vs. 30 standard. "But you can get mag extensions!" Cool now you've got 8rds vs 30. Or 40. Or 60. "But I live in a restricted state so I can only have 10rd mags anyways." Well, reloading is going to be important, which goes into the next point.
  • Ease of use: If you want to reload a shotgun you need to first have a good way to carry the shells (which is either a gaming rig or one by one), flip it over, push them in one by one (making sure that they go all the way in because otherwise it could jam), usually change hands somewhere here unless you're going with a more "gamer" method of doing it, then you can flip it back over, run the slide, re-shoulder, and try to hit the target again. Or, with an AR, you could stay on target, push button without moving your hand, stuff a new mag in, press the button that's conveniently right under your thumb already, and be right back at it. The learning curve and time needed to actually be good enough at reloading a shotgun for defensive situations is significantly higher.
  • Reliability: You, or anyone else in your house that might need to pick it up, can't manually introduce short-stroking on an AR simply because they lack range/dry-fire time. This is not uncommon with a shotgun.
  • Handling: 18" minimum barrel length, longer receivers, more front-heavy, off-set recoil vs. 16" minimum barrel length (or down to 10.5" if braced), shorter receiver (a non-adjustable stat), more centered weight, and inline recoil.

And this is only touching over 1 part of each. This doesn't get into malfunction clearing, rimmed vs. rimless ammo, plastic vs. brass casing, lights (which are a requirement for a defensive setup), slings (also a req), recoil, accuracy (yes, you still need to aim with a shotgun, and it's actually more difficult due to spread), etc etc.

Can a shotgun get the job done? Yes. But am I ever going to recommend it over a carbine? No. The one exception where I will is when budget is a serious concern - a good AR starts around $600 and goes up from there. You can get a Mossberg 500 or Maverick 88 for $2-400. If you're on a budget and really will not be able to save up a bit more for a better setup (even a trade-in or used gen3 Glock, which I'd still recommend over a shotgun), that's when the shotgun becomes the go-to, simply based off price alone. But this is generally going to be offset by the extra time required on the range (even with dry-fire) to reach even close to similar levels of proficiency as a carbine, so even then it'd be an extremely niche situation that I'd say to get a shotgun for price concerns.

tl;dr - there's very good reasons basically no unit or person that actually knows what they're doing fields shotguns anymore. Carbines are superior in every metric that matters for winning fights.


If you're talking about a breakdown of society, an AR-15. Those fire very small high velocity rounds though, so you would need to worry more about over-penetration and effective range should you miss.

Another point for carbines actually - the 5.56/.223 has repeatedly been shown to overpenetrate less through household materials than defensive shotgun loads (buck, slugs). The simple fact is that guns are designed to penetrate - anything that's going to do it's job of going through a person sufficiently enough to be considered for defensive use is going to go through other materials - especially soft things like drywall - like it's hardly even there. But if you are actually concerned about it, 5.56 is going to win this one again. Your better options though regardless of platform are to know your shooting angles and do your utmost to avoid missing, both of which just require a lot of time on the range and in dry-fire.

I never got this argument. So many people in the US talking about these sporterized modern Army rifles as if they were a good choice for a "survival situation".

Because they are. Not for the "survival" situation as you're talking about, but "survival" as in "I need to survive whatever is immediately happening right in front of me because the police aren't picking up the phone since two city blocks are on fire."

For the "survival" fantasy of going out and living off the land - there's a litany of skills that people are going to need before caliber even begins to become a concern. It doesn't matter that the 5.56 isn't the best option for hunting most things when most people can't even hunt anyways. By the time that society has devolved to the point that you're hunting and foraging for your food to "survive," what caliber you have is no longer a concern.

Quote
Same goes for taking down humans...
I suppose that's why it's preferred by every police force in the US and most countries, plus the militaries in the US, France, Germany, Canada, the United Kingdom, why Russia moved to the 5.45, why China issues a similar idea with the 5.8x42...

While there are advantages to heavier and larger calibers such as 308 from a purely ballistics standpoint, they are nigh wholly countered by the rest of the considerations that you have to look at when considering an entire platform and setup. I have more than enough confidence in my 5.56 to take down threats at any range I would need to engage at and would be happy to provide the ballistic testing to back it up as to why.

Quote
You want a time-proven, rugged, simple Bolt-action chambered in a widely available full-powered military or hunting cartridge. Something like your enfield or a nice pre 64 Winchester 70 in 30-06 would be ideal.
Guns listed here that have broken on me: 2x Enfields
Guns listed here that have not broken on me: any AR15.

When your Enfield or 57+ year old rifle can get into the 4, let alone 5 digit round count without failure or breakage, let me know, but otherwise I'm going to keep sticking with AR's that I've known personally to manage exactly that. Not to mention every other significant advantage mentioned here (because nigh every issue that applies to shotguns applies to antique bolt actions as much or more). Modern and properly configured setups are so reliable that it's a complete non-issue, this isn't Vietnam where we were giving people bad ammo and worse information causing failures.

Quote
You are mostly referring to the development of arms in a military context here, I am not. A "survival rifle" does not equal a military battle or assault rifle. 5.56 being "good enough" is not good enough. You always want something that is more than adequate. Full powered rounds like .308 and up are proven to have much greater lethality on both animals AND humans. Read reports from field medics.

If we're going to professionals, I could just go ask my friend that was a corpsman with plenty enough stories behind him which he thinks is the most lethal. Or I could just realize that I helped him build and acquire both his carbines - an AR and an AK - and extrapolate from there and all the other research I've done that carbines are "more than adequate." Again, no one is going to argue that a bigger bullet moving at a higher velocity is going to do more damage, that's basic ballistics. But there's a whole lot more than just ballistics to be considered here.

Quote
Little recoil for fast follow-up shots and great mag. capacity are important for an army gun, not such much for a hunting or "survival" rifle. Id rather have a more powerful round I know can do any job and trade that for lower capacity (5 rounds are plenty), then an intermediate round which may be adequate for most jobs.
You're confusing the fantasy of surviving off the land by hunting for your food with the reality of surviving a lethal encounter with one or more aggressors. Get a hunting rifle for hunting. Get a fighting rifle for fighting. If you're only going to have one, the likelihood and urgency of being able to survive an aggressor or group of aggressors is significantly higher than the likelihood of hunting for your food through the woods undisturbed. And if you are having to survive an actual fight, 5 rounds very likely is not plenty.

Quote
Semi autos simply function less reliably with low quality or old ammo, both of which one is likely to be shooting after a wile in a “breakdown or society” scenario, rather than quality factory-new ammo that may run well in your AR. A rifle one would want in a survival situation requires long term reliability, simplicity of construction and the ability to function in a wide variety of environments, temperatures and with a wide variety of Ammunition, regardless of manufacturer or condition/age. It is simply a fact that a bolt action performs better in these regards then any semi or fully automatic rifle ever will. End of Argument.
By the time that ammo has been so old to the point that it's reliability and effectiveness has degraded enough to not function reliably, none of us are still going to be around. If your AR requires only high-quality ammo to function, then it's a pretty garbage AR, and that's on you for building/buying poorly. Meanwhile I'll keep feeding mine low-pressured steel-case and watching it chug right along without question or complaint despite being caked in carbon from the suppressor for another few thousand rounds.

Long term reliability is fulfilled by the AR15 - we still have vietnam-era rifles kicking around. Simplicity is fulfilled by the AR15, if anything it's easier to perform maintenance and upkeep on than most bolt actions. Function in environments is a non-issue given it's performance from Saharan to arctic environments alike. Wide variety of ammunition is a non-issue as already mentioned. It is not "simply a fact."

TL;DR - the AR is the best personal fighting implement designed and your best bet to survive a fight.

Shhhhh...my wallet doesn't know I'm here.


Offline kizuna

  • Posts: 25
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 13 June 2021, 07:41:37 »

PF940CL (17 length slide, 19 length grip), basically stock except barrel, 6lb trigger spring, OEM -connector, upgraded ejector, and a couple NiB internals (trigger bar, I think one or two others). Basically a slightly smoother pull with a more positive reset but otherwise left alone. Standard Co USA holster, works great. Also a SOFTT-W, because if you carry a gun but not medical, you have your priorities all backwards.

Nice P80 build! The 17 is my favorite glock. What do you think of the new lone wolf 80% lowers?

Offline TheWonderBubble

  • Posts: 54
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 13 June 2021, 09:25:54 »

PF940CL (17 length slide, 19 length grip), basically stock except barrel, 6lb trigger spring, OEM -connector, upgraded ejector, and a couple NiB internals (trigger bar, I think one or two others). Basically a slightly smoother pull with a more positive reset but otherwise left alone. Standard Co USA holster, works great. Also a SOFTT-W, because if you carry a gun but not medical, you have your priorities all backwards.

Nice P80 build! The 17 is my favorite glock. What do you think of the new lone wolf 80% lowers?

I haven't actually seen the Lone Wolf models, I know there's a few different designs out there now that are considered better but I like the P80 and got it for sale for like $75.  :D I love the 17 in shooting but the grip is just that little bit more than I can conceal, so the CL frame fits perfect. Can't stand glock frames, but I am a huge fan of the p80 grip.
Shhhhh...my wallet doesn't know I'm here.


Offline kizuna

  • Posts: 25
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 13 June 2021, 12:40:12 »

PF940CL (17 length slide, 19 length grip), basically stock except barrel, 6lb trigger spring, OEM -connector, upgraded ejector, and a couple NiB internals (trigger bar, I think one or two others). Basically a slightly smoother pull with a more positive reset but otherwise left alone. Standard Co USA holster, works great. Also a SOFTT-W, because if you carry a gun but not medical, you have your priorities all backwards.

Nice P80 build! The 17 is my favorite glock. What do you think of the new lone wolf 80% lowers?

I haven't actually seen the Lone Wolf models, I know there's a few different designs out there now that are considered better but I like the P80 and got it for sale for like $75.  :D I love the 17 in shooting but the grip is just that little bit more than I can conceal, so the CL frame fits perfect. Can't stand glock frames, but I am a huge fan of the p80 grip.

Dang 75$ is steal! Agreed the angle of the p80 grip is better then the glock.

Offline Maledicted

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1830
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 22 June 2021, 20:51:05 »
Rugged Radiant762 suppressor, 16" barrel, LaRue 12.0 quadrail, GG&G bipod, PRI scope mount, Vortex PST Gen 1 2.5-10x, BCM upper, Geissele SSA-E, ACE SOCOM stock.

Very nice, even if rocking the venerable cheese grater handguard. How do you like that Vortex scope? I have thought about getting a variable optic but have never pulled the proverbial trigger. I hear good things about Vortex.

My short boi:
Same suppressor, Rainier Select 8" 300blk, SLR Sentry 7 adjustable gas, V7 Magnesium hyper-light forend, Bootleg upper, Young MFG Ultralight BCG, PWS Mk1 Mod 2-M lower, MVB ARC-X Ti PDW stock. Weighs only a bit over 6lbs as configured. This rig alone is what keeps me from feeling like keyboards are really all that expensive.  :'(

Am I to guess that's your home defense gun? Looks like a great build, especially considering the choice of caliber.

My daily-driver:
Show Image

Show Image

PF940CL (17 length slide, 19 length grip), basically stock except barrel, 6lb trigger spring, OEM -connector, upgraded ejector, and a couple NiB internals (trigger bar, I think one or two others). Basically a slightly smoother pull with a more positive reset but otherwise left alone. Standard Co USA holster, works great. Also a SOFTT-W, because if you carry a gun but not medical, you have your priorities all backwards.

I never did understand the hubbub about stock Glock triggers, not that I have even shot one. I did dry fire my cousin's though and you can do a lot worse with striker-fired guns *cough* M&P 1.0 *cough*. I'm a single-action hammer-fired guy to boot. I can't comment on much more since I don't particularly like Glocks overall.

What's the recommended QuickFireRapid Keyboard of Shotgunz,  pandemic threat protection ?

Probably going to start a fight here but I'm okay with that because I really want to see people as best equipped and prepared as they can be - a shotgun is the worst option available. As others have mentioned, the go-to base standard in that regard is going to be the Mossberg 500. But for "threat protection," between rifles, pistols, and shotguns, the shotgun is going to be at the bottom of the list every single time with only one exception I'll cover in a bit. Compared to an AR or similar carbine, you give up capacity, ease of use, reliability, handling, basically everything that actually matters when it comes to defensive use.

  • Capacity: 5 vs. 30 standard. "But you can get mag extensions!" Cool now you've got 8rds vs 30. Or 40. Or 60. "But I live in a restricted state so I can only have 10rd mags anyways." Well, reloading is going to be important, which goes into the next point.
  • Ease of use: If you want to reload a shotgun you need to first have a good way to carry the shells (which is either a gaming rig or one by one), flip it over, push them in one by one (making sure that they go all the way in because otherwise it could jam), usually change hands somewhere here unless you're going with a more "gamer" method of doing it, then you can flip it back over, run the slide, re-shoulder, and try to hit the target again. Or, with an AR, you could stay on target, push button without moving your hand, stuff a new mag in, press the button that's conveniently right under your thumb already, and be right back at it. The learning curve and time needed to actually be good enough at reloading a shotgun for defensive situations is significantly higher.
  • Reliability: You, or anyone else in your house that might need to pick it up, can't manually introduce short-stroking on an AR simply because they lack range/dry-fire time. This is not uncommon with a shotgun.
  • Handling: 18" minimum barrel length, longer receivers, more front-heavy, off-set recoil vs. 16" minimum barrel length (or down to 10.5" if braced), shorter receiver (a non-adjustable stat), more centered weight, and inline recoil.

Did you see the above 20 round drum? I have 3 more.  ;D

Your points mostly only apply to traditional pump-actions, and it could be argued that most are moot anyway since in a home defense situation you're unlikely to need more than a handful of shots anyway, unless we're also getting back into a total breakdown of society. With a pump-action, short-stroking and handing concerns are more than fair, for sure.

And this is only touching over 1 part of each. This doesn't get into malfunction clearing, rimmed vs. rimless ammo, plastic vs. brass casing, lights (which are a requirement for a defensive setup), slings (also a req), recoil, accuracy (yes, you still need to aim with a shotgun, and it's actually more difficult due to spread), etc etc.

Rimmed vs. rimless doesn't really matter much with most conventional shotgun magazines. They do make brass shotgun casings, if that were necessary for some reason. Lights can be an expensive/annoying prospect on a very traditional shotgun if you're not going to just clamp it to the barrel, but not all shotguns. In fact, the one I previously posted is only really relevant to a handful of your points, such as handling, and only due to its weight as it is otherwise very compact and handy. I haven't heard of a sling being considered a requirement for a defensive arm. I imagine you have some specific reasoning for this? There are pros and cons, as with everything. Difficulty in hitting with a shotgun may be the case with a seriously wrong combination of range, barrel length, choke and ammunition choice ... I would hope this would not be the case.

Can a shotgun get the job done? Yes. But am I ever going to recommend it over a carbine? No. The one exception where I will is when budget is a serious concern - a good AR starts around $600 and goes up from there. You can get a Mossberg 500 or Maverick 88 for $2-400. If you're on a budget and really will not be able to save up a bit more for a better setup (even a trade-in or used gen3 Glock, which I'd still recommend over a shotgun), that's when the shotgun becomes the go-to, simply based off price alone. But this is generally going to be offset by the extra time required on the range (even with dry-fire) to reach even close to similar levels of proficiency as a carbine, so even then it'd be an extremely niche situation that I'd say to get a shotgun for price concerns.

tl;dr - there's very good reasons basically no unit or person that actually knows what they're doing fields shotguns anymore. Carbines are superior in every metric that matters for winning fights.

I think I would personally take just about any long arm over a handgun when the situation allows.

If you're talking about a breakdown of society, an AR-15. Those fire very small high velocity rounds though, so you would need to worry more about over-penetration and effective range should you miss.

Another point for carbines actually - the 5.56/.223 has repeatedly been shown to overpenetrate less through household materials than defensive shotgun loads (buck, slugs). The simple fact is that guns are designed to penetrate - anything that's going to do it's job of going through a person sufficiently enough to be considered for defensive use is going to go through other materials - especially soft things like drywall - like it's hardly even there. But if you are actually concerned about it, 5.56 is going to win this one again. Your better options though regardless of platform are to know your shooting angles and do your utmost to avoid missing, both of which just require a lot of time on the range and in dry-fire.

I wouldn't consider slugs to be a defensive shotgun load, and something like 00 buck is overkill in the confines of a house too. A lot of people actually advocate for birdshot since it can inflict tremendous damage at close range without even penetrating a single wall behind the target.

I never got this argument. So many people in the US talking about these sporterized modern Army rifles as if they were a good choice for a "survival situation".

Because they are. Not for the "survival" situation as you're talking about, but "survival" as in "I need to survive whatever is immediately happening right in front of me because the police aren't picking up the phone since two city blocks are on fire."

For the "survival" fantasy of going out and living off the land - there's a litany of skills that people are going to need before caliber even begins to become a concern. It doesn't matter that the 5.56 isn't the best option for hunting most things when most people can't even hunt anyways. By the time that society has devolved to the point that you're hunting and foraging for your food to "survive," what caliber you have is no longer a concern.

Quote
Same goes for taking down humans...
I suppose that's why it's preferred by every police force in the US and most countries, plus the militaries in the US, France, Germany, Canada, the United Kingdom, why Russia moved to the 5.45, why China issues a similar idea with the 5.8x42...

While there are advantages to heavier and larger calibers such as 308 from a purely ballistics standpoint, they are nigh wholly countered by the rest of the considerations that you have to look at when considering an entire platform and setup. I have more than enough confidence in my 5.56 to take down threats at any range I would need to engage at and would be happy to provide the ballistic testing to back it up as to why.

I am in total agreement on this.

Quote
You want a time-proven, rugged, simple Bolt-action chambered in a widely available full-powered military or hunting cartridge. Something like your enfield or a nice pre 64 Winchester 70 in 30-06 would be ideal.
Guns listed here that have broken on me: 2x Enfields
Guns listed here that have not broken on me: any AR15.

When your Enfield or 57+ year old rifle can get into the 4, let alone 5 digit round count without failure or breakage, let me know, but otherwise I'm going to keep sticking with AR's that I've known personally to manage exactly that.

A lot of very different arms could be meant by invoking the name Enfield. I imagine the ones you've had trouble with are the traditional/colloquial Lee-Enfield chambered in .303, which are known for major problems with rim lock (whereas most shotguns, or most any tube-fed arm, is not). The M1917 is a very different beast. They're basically Mauser 98s that the British picked and chose some of the best features of other rifles to combine with. They were developing their own rimless cartridge that was even somewhat intermediate/high velocity to pair with it but Franz Ferdinand took his fateful car ride and the project was immediately shelved to prioritize Lee-Enfield production. The British hurriedly adapted the design to the old .303 cartridge and contracted U.S. companies to produce and export it to them as the P14, which mostly saw use as a sniping rifle. When the U.S. entered the war, major factories like Remington were already tooled up for the P14 so the design was again adapted to the U.S. .30-06 cartridge and immediately adopted as the M1917. Millions were produced during the war, totally dwarfing our inventory of M1903s by war's end, and they were much loved by those they were issued to. They became known as eminently sturdy, reliable and accurate weapons. To this very day the Danes still use them in Greenland due to their unyielding reliability in adverse conditions. Many were later converted by hunters to magnum cartridges because of the robustness of the action. I haven't shot any of mine a lot, but I haven't had any problems with them yet. Their Achilles heel is a relatively thin/weak ejector spring, which is a flat spring and an integrated component of the ejector. If and when they break, they can be replaced with nothing more than a random makeshift coil spring and will eject reliably henceforth.

I agree totally with everything else you said following this.  ;D

PF940CL (17 length slide, 19 length grip), basically stock except barrel, 6lb trigger spring, OEM -connector, upgraded ejector, and a couple NiB internals (trigger bar, I think one or two others). Basically a slightly smoother pull with a more positive reset but otherwise left alone. Standard Co USA holster, works great. Also a SOFTT-W, because if you carry a gun but not medical, you have your priorities all backwards.

Nice P80 build! The 17 is my favorite glock. What do you think of the new lone wolf 80% lowers?

I haven't actually seen the Lone Wolf models, I know there's a few different designs out there now that are considered better but I like the P80 and got it for sale for like $75.  :D I love the 17 in shooting but the grip is just that little bit more than I can conceal, so the CL frame fits perfect. Can't stand glock frames, but I am a huge fan of the p80 grip.

I was going to ask how you're lugging that Glock 17 slide around. I carry full size 1911s and even a Jericho 941 often in the winter, but that's in shoulder rigs. I usually pocket carry in a wallet holster.

Offline TheWonderBubble

  • Posts: 54
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 22 June 2021, 23:44:48 »
Quote from: Maledicted
How do you like that Vortex scope? I have thought about getting a variable optic but have never pulled the proverbial trigger. I hear good things about Vortex.

I'm a huge fan, Vortex is known for being the industry's gold standard when it comes to warranty, and they're equally known for it not being frequently needed. Everything below their Viper lineup is ehhhh but so is everything else at that price point, and Vortex has the best warranty. Viper and up though? Absolutely full send.

Quote
Am I to guess that's your home defense gun?

That's one of it's purposes, but actually not why it was built. If I was just building for HD usage I would have saved ~1-2k and not worried near as much about weight.

Quote
I never did understand the hubbub about stock Glock triggers

Like everything else about Glock, they're serviceable, and not much else. Not the worst, not the best, they just work. Bumping up the trigger spring makes the reset more positive, which really is the biggest upgrade to it.

Quote
Did you see the above 20 round drum? I have 3 more.

 :D


Quote
Your points mostly only apply to traditional pump-actions

Yes, since this is what the majority of people end up with and think of for "home defense shotgun." Even when it comes to semi-auto though, assuming tube-fed everything except short-stroking still applies. Including mag fed, many of those have their own feed issues, and I don't know of any that are even remotely close to as tested and known as basic PMAGs.

Quote
it could be argued that most are moot anyway since in a home defense situation you're unlikely to need more than a handful of shots anyway

You're unlikely to need defense at all, statistically. But as someone on another forum once said, "I do it for what's at stake, not what's likely."

Also:
5 attackers: https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2019/01/houston-man-stands-against-attackers/
3 attackers: https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/3-suspects-held-off-in-home-invasion-when-mother-unlocks-gun-in-walled-lake
4 attackers: https://www.fox8live.com/2020/12/09/two-killed-wounded-lacombe-home-invasion/
3 attackers: https://www.tampabay.com/news/crime/2020/07/10/wesley-chapel-homeowner-fires-on-three-intruders-killing-two-of-them/
3 attackers: https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=DKzuz4rU20Q (added space to remove embed formatting)
3 attackers: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oklahoma-man-uses-ar-15-kill-three-teen-home-intruders-n739541
"multiple": https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/multiple-suspects-arrested-for-home-invasion-in-rockland-township/ar-AALiERM
"multiple": https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/multiple-teenagers-arrested-after-home-invasion-on-northwest-side/ar-BB1aEQkn

While it's unlikely, it's FAR from unheard of to be dealing with multiple threats. I'd rather come out of a fight with rounds left than run out halfway through because 1 shot per assailant is unrealistic.

Quote
I haven't heard of a sling being considered a requirement for a defensive arm. I imagine you have some specific reasoning for this?

I'd put a sling on par or above a light. If I have to manage a doorway, family member, roommate, guest, or I'm unlucky enough to end up at arms length, having my longarm quite literally tied to me is very, very important.

Quote
Difficulty in hitting with a shotgun may be the case with a seriously wrong combination of range, barrel length, choke and ammunition choice

This isn't something I'd be concerned with at HD ranges, but going back to the original query of societal collapse ala katrina, unless you're using slugs you have to consider your spread as you start getting further out. Rifles don't deal with that.

Quote
A lot of people actually advocate for birdshot since it can inflict tremendous damage at close range without even penetrating a single wall behind the target.

I find "a lot of people" haven't bothered to actually look up ballistics. :)) Birdshot isn't what I'd consider "tremendous damage," it is what I'd consider "unreliable." If it's not going to go through drywall, it's absolutely not trustworthy to go through a person.

Quote
the traditional/colloquial Lee-Enfield chambered in .303

Yup! Except it wasn't rimlock, it was straight up failure to fire on multiple rounds, both modern and old production. I've also had failures with the 1917, 03A3, and other surplus. I haven't had failures with my Yugo Mauser or Garand, but nigh every other surplus platform I've gotten behind has failed me for gun-related (not ammo) issues. This is anecdotal, obviously. But "time-proven" and "bolt action" doesn't always equal the best choice for modern problems.

Quote
I was going to ask how you're lugging that Glock 17 slide around.

19 grip, great holster, and luck with both genetics and job.  :D Being able to wear loose t-shirts and jeans to my office is great. If I had to dress in business casual, tuck my shirt in, or wasn't built as I am physically, it wouldn't work and I'd be rocking a Shield or P30SK instead.

Not gonna lie though, I'm more than a little jealous of that Jericho...such a lovely pistol.

And thank you for the good discussion! It's nice having reasonable talks on these topics when they can get so heated.  :thumb:
Shhhhh...my wallet doesn't know I'm here.


Offline phinix

  • Posts: 1513
  • Location: Haggis Land
  • On a diet.. again.. don't ask...
Re: Gun Porn
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 24 June 2021, 04:46:07 »
I would love to have Ruger Precision rifle magnum.
I don't know how hard is to acquire papers for this in UK, but will look into it at some point.



9100 | 3070 | 2x 1TB SSD | Z390 Aorus Pro ITX | 16GB RAM | SFX 600W | Sentry 2.0 | Ruark Audio MR1 Mark II | LG OLED 48CX
KBD67 Lite R2 Zealios v2 78g| CM QuickFire Rapid MX Blacks Frosty Flake | Model M | Logitech Pro Superlight
SA: Carbon, 7bit's R6 Symbiosis, Amber Screen Cherry: GMK Laser, OG caps MT3: Serika
::: Phinix Cube ::: Phinix Nano Tower ::: Phinix Aurora ::: Phinix Chimera ::: Phinix Retro :::