Author Topic: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice  (Read 261984 times)

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #150 on: Thu, 28 May 2020, 20:45:58 »
It's the standard D2fc or a slightly altered version, Microsoft did similar years ago. From what I saw it seems MS basically just had them up the lifespan, which is what we all use now.

You want the 75gram version.
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Offline sdmf74

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #151 on: Fri, 29 May 2020, 06:51:44 »
Thanks for the reply guys! Can you elaborate on why the 75g's, Ill check out that link  :thumb:

Oh did I see someone posted a pic and another discussed Kailh & gateron mouse switches? I would be interested in
more info on those and a purchase link or heads up.

Jeez I hope I dont have to keep doing these post verifications for every post for ever  :confused:
« Last Edit: Fri, 29 May 2020, 06:55:11 by sdmf74 »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #152 on: Fri, 29 May 2020, 07:14:50 »
Because you don't want a 150g switch on your mouse.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #153 on: Fri, 29 May 2020, 10:39:56 »
Because you don't want a 150g switch on your mouse.

Well, some pro gamers use it, because they play with a lift off technique where they swipe and lift the mouse when they get wide.

The heavier switch helps prevent accidental triggering when the mouse air-drops.

Obviously, if a person doesn't need this function, they wouldn't want heavier switches.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #154 on: Fri, 29 May 2020, 21:15:09 »
I thought about putting one in the right side of my G900 as it's just ridiculously sensitive, but 150g is a heck of a lot and woudl be even worse on a mouse using hinges.


I've done the lift, never had an issue with false clicks. G900 is the only mouse I've had this issue with and it happens at rest.
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Offline chrisdewit

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #155 on: Sat, 13 June 2020, 23:15:29 »
Hi everyone. I found this thread some time back when I was researching what I was sure was a micro switch failure on my Corsair M65. This thread helped me find the switch I wanted and move forward on my repair.

I made a write up about it and threw it up on Imgur.

Thanks for having this thread up.

https://imgur.com/a/SYoRHGR

Also I found this PDF in the process. Check out Page 6 for a laugh.

http://en.chanlin-ele.com/Uploads/201601/568ce2c9eeda4.pdf

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #156 on: Wed, 17 June 2020, 02:29:48 »
Guide updated for 2020.
Added info from chrisdewit and Keebon, corrected some other info and tried to make it a bit faster for those just wanting quick answers.


My current advice.
D2F-F or D2F-01-F (in that order) if you want the better sealed Japanese switch which happens to be 75gram (yes, it's stiffer) or if you still want a 60gram switch stick with the D2FC-F-K. Avoid every other D2FC, they just don't work well in modern mice. All are out of the recommended operating range but they are a lot closer than then the common D2FC (the K may or may not be as good as the Japanese D2F).

G900/903 owners (and those having accidental clicks), switch to the Japanese switches, it really helped me with that problem by adding just a bit more resistance.
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| Magicforce 68
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MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
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J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
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Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
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Costar model with browns
| GH60
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Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline downtownHippie

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #157 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 20:44:09 »
There is one less G903 with Chinese switches out there now.  I'd like to thank you all for your help.

Offline Filmore Graves

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #158 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 00:01:43 »

...snip...



Popular Mice and what switches they use:
80% or more of all mice use them, and it's even more common at the high end.

Known to use alternatives:
Corsair
Razer
Steelseries

Exclusively use Omrons or almost exclusively:
Asus
Logitech
Cooler Master
Roccat

With Logitech, the newer and more expensive the mouse, the higher the lifespan rating as well.


...snip...

What do you mean by "alternatives"?

I am asking as I have been in the corsair forums reading up last years or so and it seems the corsair are having huge issues with double clicking and failing switch and I was under the impression they are using the chinese omron switches?

BTW Great guide I am quite happy I ran into this so ty for keeping it going!

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #159 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 02:01:17 »
You're welcome.

Some older Corsair models used some other switches but almost anything true gamer or high end is going to be using Omrons, it's a selling point. It's not that alternatives are rare, they're just rare in the mice we use (i.e. people who care about peripherals). It's VERY, VERY easy to damage these switches, it doesn't help we are now undervolting/amping them, so failure rates are way higher than than the 50m lifespans being promoted because the mice manufacturers are using them out of spec.

Which is another thing, don't let them tell you "they're probably dirty" (looking at you Logitech), it's BS and they know it. They're just brushing you off hoping to get you past warranty. These companies know it's out of spec, but they boxed themselves into a corner promoting these switches, look at how we reacted to Razed abandoning Cherry Switches.


As for alternatives they may be using:
Kinzu, Kana, Himake, Panasonic, Huanos, Zippy, Qiaoh and TTF
Keep in mind, not all of these are perfect direct fits and figuring it out is another rabbit hole.

My advice, buy a mouse you can access the switches in easily (G700 was a NIGHTMARE, G900/903 is pretty easy, Asus has some that make it easy) by checking teardowns and then upgrade to the Japanese switches once one of them dies. I do NOT condone doing it before then but I recommend doing both at the same time. Also check your warranty before doing anything, you may be able to finagle a free one then repair it.
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Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
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MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
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J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
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Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline Filmore Graves

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #160 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 04:25:38 »
Ah yes I watched the hour long video so I can see how out of spec switches could be an issue. It's a little odd how out of spec switches could be a selling point though... lol  The technician in me just cringes when I think about that and how they sell mice for 100$ plus, well at least in my area, with switches they know are no longer appropriate for the circuitry they are using.

That said mice is not something I ever bothered fixing or trying to before I got my first original razer naga mouse and it started having left click issues, I fixed that by placing a thin sheet of metal over the tab that presses on the switch button as the plastic tab had a worn down indent on it.  Eventually I replaced that with a g600 which I just chucked as it was falling apart, I am a bit rough with my mice tbh though lol.  I am actually back to using the naga I had stored away. It works but the top is kind of yucky and gummy.

It's funny you mention Asus I was looking at maybe trying the ASUS ROG Gladius II 12000 DPI which has socketed switches which are simply pull n replace.

Still thinking about it though as I might like to try a Corsair Scimitar RGB Elite but I dunno if I wanna pay 130$ for a mouse that will have china omrons there's also the naga trinity which looks interesting however I definitely want a mouse I can remove the the china omrons when they fail/start messing up and solder in jap omrons.  Soldering isn't a problem for me.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #161 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 04:51:44 »
I dunno if I wanna pay 130$ for a mouse that will have china omrons
Not sure any come with Japanese Omrons pre-installed, but you should get a year or more from the Chinese ones.

I look at the Asus Galdius all the time and I always come back to one simple truth... I use wireless and for that no one beats Logitech, say what you will but their wireless systems are far and away the best out there.

By the way, while you do have to remove the feet and screws you can buy plug in Omrons for the g900/903 as well. They're mounted on tiny daughter boards that plug in. Not quite the Asus method but a step in the right direction. If only they wouldn't hide the screws under the feet. So close...
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62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
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Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
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w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
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Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #162 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 06:03:07 »
Also with mouse pcbs, make sure you put something tough under the pins when you plug them in, sometimes it can pop the pin and break the trace.

Tp4 has done it,  it's not hard to fix becuz Tp4 = Xpert Wizard Lvl Mouser , but for anyone else, it could be trouble.

Offline Filmore Graves

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #163 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 10:35:22 »
I dunno if I wanna pay 130$ for a mouse that will have china omrons
Not sure any come with Japanese Omrons pre-installed, but you should get a year or more from the Chinese ones.

I look at the Asus Galdius all the time and I always come back to one simple truth... I use wireless and for that no one beats Logitech, say what you will but their wireless systems are far and away the best out there.

By the way, while you do have to remove the feet and screws you can buy plug in Omrons for the g900/903 as well. They're mounted on tiny daughter boards that plug in. Not quite the Asus method but a step in the right direction. If only they wouldn't hide the screws under the feet. So close...

Yeah the gladius comes with two extra jap omron's which is quite appealing and I don't care about wireless but I can see how it could be a priority for many and yeah I do not like screws hidden under feet or labels etc either!



Also with mouse pcbs, make sure you put something tough under the pins when you plug them in, sometimes it can pop the pin and break the trace.

Tp4 has done it,  it's not hard to fix becuz Tp4 = Xpert Wizard Lvl Mouser , but for anyone else, it could be trouble.


Thanks for the tip! I should be all good as I have been soldering for awhile, My first full time job was doing audio (cassette tapes) and vcr repair!  It's good to know ahead of time that they are fragile in mice and require an extra soft touch though. :)


Oh btw is the captcha image verification thing something we always have to do in these forums or is it just for newbies with newly created accounts?
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 August 2020, 10:37:55 by Filmore Graves »

Offline firereverie

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #164 on: Wed, 02 December 2020, 12:44:24 »
First off, thanks for all your work putting this together.

In regards to rated longevity I'm a little lost. You stated they'd be either marked with your example "D2F-01 (10M)" however I've been unable to find any D2Fs with any longevity definition beyond what Omron states in their spec PDF of 1M mechanical @ 60 operations/min. It's possible I'm looking in all the wrong places, but the only Omron switches I've come across with higher ratings are D2FCs, if you are able to comment on this without violating forum terms that would be awesome.

I also kind of feel like this rating is irrelevant, and was wondering why electrical lifespan wasn't in the report, considering that electrically they're only rated for 100k for the -01s and 30k for non -01s @30 operations/min.

Thanks again!

All referenced figures were sourced from Omron's D2F specification PDF.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #165 on: Wed, 02 December 2020, 16:16:57 »
Ignore the rating, they're rated under a different circumstance than their actual voltage use condition INSIDE a mouse.

Buy the D2F

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #166 on: Wed, 02 December 2020, 21:24:05 »
First off, thanks for all your work putting this together.

In regards to rated longevity I'm a little lost. You stated they'd be either marked with your example "D2F-01 (10M)" however I've been unable to find any D2Fs with any longevity definition beyond what Omron states in their spec PDF of 1M mechanical @ 60 operations/min. It's possible I'm looking in all the wrong places, but the only Omron switches I've come across with higher ratings are D2FCs, if you are able to comment on this without violating forum terms that would be awesome.
You're welcome.

The way Omron rates the switches has changed over the years, and yes some may have them some may not, anything beyond D2F is an added designation and not required.
It used to be there was no special ratings, then it was pin color then it became a paint stamp, there are still TONS and TONS of older switches in the supply chain. We still have yet to purge the world of bad capacitors from the great capacitor plague, and we even tried to purge those. Fun fact, these may have re-entered the power supply chain for power supplies.

As TP said, and I've mentioned this a bit along the way, the rating is BS.
These switches were outside their operating range from the start (pressure) and it's only gotten worse (voltage) as things have progressed. The rating is little more than a marketing scam at this point, seriously it means absolutely nothing.

By the way, I would follow the advice regarding springs aim for the silver spring, gold (-01) just puts you further out of spec.
I have golds in my g900 and I've seen some odd behavior. Not terrible but every once in a while they seem extra sensitive.
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62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
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Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline firereverie

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #167 on: Fri, 04 December 2020, 06:48:36 »

As TP said, and I've mentioned this a bit along the way, the rating is BS.
These switches were outside their operating range from the start (pressure) and it's only gotten worse (voltage) as things have progressed. The rating is little more than a marketing scam at this point, seriously it means absolutely nothing.

By the way, I would follow the advice regarding springs aim for the silver spring, gold (-01) just puts you further out of spec.
I have golds in my g900 and I've seen some odd behavior. Not terrible but every once in a while they seem extra sensitive.

I concur, given the data it seems like the claims to longevity come straight from someone in marketing cherry picking the specs. Being outside of any operating range should completely invalidate any of the estimations.

Happily my 502 was under warranty, and logi didn't ask for my malfunctioning one back, so I have a test patient to play with. Given that I can play around with it without risk of downtime I may order several switches to try out. That way I'll have the opportunity to try out the different actuation forces and see what I prefer for when the next one dies or if my 700s ever dies (that thing lives in my backpack, amazed those switches still work.)

Offline firereverie

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #168 on: Fri, 04 December 2020, 06:54:02 »
Ignore the rating, they're rated under a different circumstance than their actual voltage use condition INSIDE a mouse.

Buy the D2F


Yep, either way I was going JP. Even if I thought the Chinese ones would actually last longer, I'd rather have the tighter tolerances.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #169 on: Fri, 04 December 2020, 08:42:56 »

Don't be locked into omrons though, there are other makers who do the contacts properly. Huanos for example.

The omron microswitch is like cherry mx, they're iconic, but ultimately Not-Special.

Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #170 on: Fri, 04 December 2020, 23:10:26 »
By the way, I would follow the advice regarding springs aim for the silver spring, gold (-01) just puts you further out of spec.

I am confused, isn't it the other way around?

Looking at the Omron datasheet (https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Omron%20PDFs/D2F_0318_DS.pdf) the Minimum applicable load for each of them is as follows

D2F modelsD2F-01 models
100 mA at 5 VDC1 mA at 5 VDC


Now my Logitech G502 is measured to operate at around 0.1 mA / 3.3 VDC. So why use the general-load D2F rather than the micro load D2F-01, what makes the silver D2F preferable alternative to the gold D2F-01?

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #171 on: Sat, 05 December 2020, 01:34:38 »
That's the minimal load, but not the initial contact resistance.
The load required to initially make and hold contact is 100mΩ for gold but only 30-50mΩ for silver, it's that initial grab we need to worry about most to avoid double clicks.

Gold maintains it's conductivity really well and doesn't oxidize (easily) so it works well over a long period of time. On connectors you never touch or rarely use it makes perfect sense. Silver is actually a better conductor but only when it's clean.  So on a pcie slot you never mess with gold is a better option, it will remain good for years and years regardless if occupied or not. In a switch being constantly pressed and self cleaning, silver is the better option.

This is also why you see gold and silver connectors for display cables and other things.
Most people don't know it but you actually aren't supposed to mix the two, everyone does, but it's not correct and does cause premature wear.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #172 on: Sat, 05 December 2020, 14:21:56 »
not terribly confident in silver's ability to hold up over time.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #173 on: Sat, 05 December 2020, 20:07:32 »
Under regular use, it should in theory last longer, gold is very soft and you aren't going to have the bad initial contact issue plaguing it.

Neither is going to go the full lifetime, I think we all agree the lifespan is marketing fluff.
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Offline dennis97519

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #174 on: Thu, 10 December 2020, 18:08:59 »
Omron switches
While it's by far the most commonly used switch in in mice (more than 80%) there's a lot of questions about the numbers and letter designations. I myself have spent many many hours over many days scouring for information to figure this out. Since publishing this guide also helped bring in others who brought more info (thanks guys!). At this point I think it's safe to assume we have a good grasp on these switches.


Important warning TL/DR:
The  D2FC-F-K is NOT the same as a standard D2F and D2FC, it is a dedicated switch made and marketed specifically for mice.  See -K designation below for more.

Quick info:
D2F-F or D2F-01-F (in that order) if you want the better sealed Japanese switch which happens to be 75gram (yes, it's stiffer) or if you still want a 60gram switch stick with the D2FC-F-K. Avoid every other D2FC, they just don't work well in modern mice. All are out of the recommended operating range but they are a lot closer than then the common D2FC (the K may or may not be as good as the Japanese D2F).



Updated for 2020
More info has come in, particularly regarding the D2FC-F-K thanks to chrisdewit  and Keebon and some personal testing. This has also been re-formatted a little and new info added and corrected. It's still not perfect, we still do not know everything but it's fairly complete at this point. Recommendations are ^ up there.

Info breakdown (older info)
D2F vs D2FC indicates origin. [/b]
More
D2F = Japanese (always has Japan molded into top along with Omron label)
D2FC = China (may have China painted on side or top, or just a “C” in the model #)

Chinese models are mass produced and are considered to be a bit sloppy in tolerances, so one may have an actuation point a bit higher than another. Tolerances on these are pretty small so you probably wouldn't notice, but just know that they are more sloppy than the Japanese models.

Japanese models have much nicer internals, better tolerances, better metals,a stronger frame and are better sealed from dirt and moisture. They are also slightly taller (0.08mm)  and have a shorter actuation distance but it’s close enough to be a drop in replacement.

Warning.
While you can use a normal D2FC in a modern mouse, it will be inconsistent and fail very early. See the -K designation below.


-01 (can be with or without the dash)
The first batch of batch of numbers or lack of them is usually an 01, this indicates the spring material.
More
-01 Indicates a “gold alloy spring”
lack of -01  Indicates a “silver alloy spring”
I put them in quotes because I suspect it means they are plated spring steel, not an actual alloy of the two materials as implied by Omron.

Which is better?
Honestly, I'm not sure. I have 01's in my G900 and they seem stable for the moment, and gold lasts, the problem is silver *should* work better with lower amperage and amperage is the problem and precisely why you should not use a common D2FC. My advice, get silver if you can but don't put in a lot of effort until we know more.


Spring rates (-F)
More
The next important indicator you want to know is the -F
-F Japanese – 75grams.
-F Chinese – 60grams.
Others – 120 or 150gram

Some listings will just tell the spring rate, others use the -F designation.

Beware, Omron or maybe it's the sellers, have a habit of listing some Chinese models as 75gram. It's still not known if there s a 60 and a 75gram Chinese spring or if they are all just 60gram and being confused by Omrons literature. Translation is at ties an art so things can get lost.

Which is better?
It’s up to you really.

Warning.
While you can use a normal D2FC in a modern mouse, it will be inconsistent and fail very early. See the -K designation below.

-K designation (-K)
This is only for the Chinese model and indicates a mouse specific switch.
More
Modern mice use such low amounts of energy that a normal D2FC no longer functions consistently. The Japanese D2f functions better but the Chinese D2FC has problems, it's suspected this is sort of a hybrid.   Regardless it;s aimed directly at mice.

The standard D2FC will work, it’s just inconsistent and will be rather short lived. When I put them in my G900 the right click became inconsistent within a month or two and got progressively worse from there. For comparison I usually get 12-14 months out of a -K, keep in mind that is a sample size of only 2, but it worked pretty much as expected (bad), so I’d say it was enough of a sample size in that regard.

If you want to retain a 60gram spring in your mouse you will need to use the D2FC-F-K as it’s the only 60gram spring model available from Omron that i can verify.



Lifespan Labeled as (10M)
More
There is a rumor that Japanese switches start with a lower lifespan and that the -F has a longer lifespan. This doesn't seem to really hold much water when you consider that Omron themselves labels them for you. Sometimes.

Why? These lifespan numbers are for ZERO load, and they really do mean ANY load. If the mouse button rests on the switch button or your finger causes it to, then the lifespan will be shortened.  Anything touching that button shortens the lifespan. Many mice actually may have some slop to prevent this when your fingers are off the mouse, but as soon as you put them on it, the lifespan is probably starting to drop as the weight of your fingers remove that slop. Personally, 10M last longer than 20M for me, see my note here.

Omron has multiple ratings:
(1M) = 1million presses
(3m) = 3million presses
(5m) = 5million presses
(10M) = 10million presses
(20M) = 20million presses

Unfortunately, the only surefire way to know for certain is with the part number as shown above as they didn't always mark them.  However they often coincided with the button color or a painted dot on top.

Some of the lower numbers the details are sketchy, but we don't really care about them anyhow.
Black  – no dot – (1M) = 1million presses (not verified)
Red or Yellow button or dot (3m) = 3million (not verified)
Red or Yellow button or dot (5m) = 5million (not verified)
Gray button and/or dot - (10M) = 10million
White button and/or dot - (20M) = 20million

The colors are also referred to as tops, so when someone says a “white top” Omron, they mean it's a switch rated for 20mil. Presses.

Use caution: I don't recommend relying on the button color. MS has custom switches made for them (labeled MS) as does another company, which can be different and I have seen white and gray botton Omrons with no (XXM) stamped on them. These are usually older models, but it's something to keep in mind. Dots and labeling is the only surefire way to know and a while lower numbers may not say it, you can bet a 50M is going to let you know it's a 50M as it’s a selling point.

I'll put a chart at the bottom showing what is using what that I know of and if others post I will try and add them.


Other random numbers and letters in the switch part number  Example D2F L3 -T
More
Frankly, you do not want any of these on your switch, as they pertain to the soldering terminals and different ways to actuate the button, almost none of which are useful to use. Note: Levers can be removed, so if you want a specific switch in a hurry and can only find it with a lever, you can always remove it from the switch and use it without problems, just be careful removing it.

L = Hinge lever
L2 = Roller lever
L3 = simulated roller
L30 = larger simulated roller
-T = self clinching terminals (this can still work in a mouse)
-A = right angled terminals
-A1 = left angled terminals
-D3 = big solder terminals
-D = compact terminals


Other odballs
It's probably these are an older naming convention Omron used, as we know they switched lifespan indicators a while back.
More
Take much of this with a grain of salt as we have no hard evidence on any of this.
D2F-F-7N  is Comparable to D2F-01F  (Japanese)  (Confirmed this is a 75g switch!)
D2FC-F-7N  is Comparable to D2FC-01F (Chinese)

D2F-3-7 is reportedly comparable to D2F-01F (but I suspect it's closer to D2F-01 due to lack of the N) (Japanese)
D2FC-3-7 is probably comparable to D2FC-01F (but I suspect it's closer to D2F-01 due to lack of the N) (Chinese)

Note: I do not know if the D2FC-3-7 exists, but I believe it might since the 7N has a Japanese and Chinese counterpart. A quick Google search turned up nothing.

Beware with any of these, as they may not function properly in a modern mouse due to the low amperage. See -K designation.


Other Switch Brands
More
Yes, there are others that can be used, lots in fact. Most agree that the Omrons are the best and by far the most common in quality mice, which begs the question, if they are the norm, why do people and manufacturers make such a big deal over Omrons. “Look, I have the same as everyone else!”

WARNING!!!
While there are others that will go in, they are often slightly different sizes, and some are not designed for the low amperages we currently use in mice. So while they may fit and work for a bit, go back and read the -K designation before actually buying any.

Various brands:
Kinzu, Kana, Himake, Panasonic, Huanos (loud according to TP4Tissue), Zippy, Qiaoh and TTF
Interesting ones:
TTF  is considered quietest
Zippy uses a coil spring so may be more durable


Popular Mice and what switches they use:
80% or more of all mice use them, and it's even more common at the high end.
More
Known to use alternatives:
Corsair
Razer
Steelseries

Exclusively use Omrons or almost exclusively:
Asus
Logitech
Cooler Master
Roccat

With Logitech, the newer and more expensive the mouse, the higher the lifespan rating as well.


Sources
More

Updated June 2020
So according to the datasheet -01 is supposed to indicate 30 VDC 0.1A rating, while without -01 indicates 125 VAC 1A rating for -F (low operating force) switches. I got both from mouser and took the shell off. The spring part seems to be the same; both the hammer and the nub where the hammer strikes appears silvery on the D2F-F and appears copperish on the D2F-01F. I didn't take the spring off, so maybe the copperish nubs are plated in the center with gold.


Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #176 on: Thu, 10 December 2020, 21:58:32 »
So according to the datasheet -01 is supposed to indicate 30 VDC 0.1A rating, while without -01 indicates 125 VAC 1A rating for -F (low operating force) switches. I got both from mouser and took the shell off. The spring part seems to be the same; both the hammer and the nub where the hammer strikes appears silvery on the D2F-F and appears copperish on the D2F-01F. I didn't take the spring off, so maybe the copperish nubs are plated in the center with gold.
You're mixing AC and DC, two very different things,. you cannot match them against each other.

As for the plating,
As TP said, they're alloys and it refers to the contacts, not the leaf.
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Offline SKLC

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #177 on: Wed, 16 December 2020, 19:47:05 »
Just wanted to add something to this discussion. It's a paper on mouse switches.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0053/9203/9985/files/Switches_in_High_Performance_Peripherals.pdf

I found this part interesting:
Quote
Some switches do not have stationary contact points at all. They simple rely on the conductivity
of the NO pin’s inner structure. The entire Omron D2FC series of switch is guilty of this and can be
seen in Figure 2. The improper contact surface causes asymmetric wear on the moving contacts,
which partly leads to the double-clicking issues commonly found in mice using these switches.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #178 on: Sat, 29 May 2021, 23:21:44 »
I have an update coming for alternatives to Omron.
Optimum Tech's latest video on Youtube pointed out some alternatives and some links giving me a good starting point and I'll be going through those and adding them to the guide.

I want to stress some things I think he gets wrong in the video.
He claims this is a good place to learn to solder, I strongly disagree. While he makes it look easy and they sort of are, some mice are extremely difficult to reach the switches but more importantly D2f style switches are EXTREMELY fickle regarding heat, I cringed a time or two seeing how he soldered them. It's not that he's bad, his solder job would be fine for MX switches but these demand low heat and low heat soak, this is likely why he had so much trouble with them all sounding different. These switches are made to tolerances that make MX switches look bad, they should sound more alike than not. 

Second and more importantly, he claims these alternatives won't double click like Omrons.
The double click is the result of spring failure, these all are just copies of the Omron D2f design in pretty much every way, meaning there's really no reason to assume these are any more immune to the dreaded double click as Omron. I have yet to deep dive these but just a cursory look into them shows they haven't done anything to combat that issue or any other problem facing Omrons. They should be viewed as an alternative, not a solution.
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Offline MajorKoos

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #179 on: Sun, 30 May 2021, 00:53:34 »
I’ve been using Kailh GM 4.0 and TTC Gold microswitches in my mice in place of the stock Omrons for some extra crispy clicks. Got some GM 8.0 microswitches on the way and plans for modding a G Pro Wireless.

The hardest part was the disassembly and reassembly.  So many screws.  The soldering was pretty simple.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #180 on: Sun, 30 May 2021, 03:07:25 »
The soldering was pretty simple.
It looks simple...
The switches are only rated for, at most, 260c but your iron is usually set at 350c in order to get the solder to flow.

It only takes an extra second or two too long or even go from one pin to the next too soon and the switch gets damaged. It's really easy to do and what I suspected happened on Optimum Tech when he claimed they sounded different.
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Offline MajorKoos

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #181 on: Sun, 30 May 2021, 09:13:02 »
The soldering was pretty simple.
It looks simple...
The switches are only rated for, at most, 260c but your iron is usually set at 350c in order to get the solder to flow.

It only takes an extra second or two too long or even go from one pin to the next too soon and the switch gets damaged. It's really easy to do and what I suspected happened on Optimum Tech when he claimed they sounded different.

Had the same thing happen in the past with Zealios by letting them get too hot.
I don't re-use any microswitches I de-soldered because they're probably ruined after the heat they soaked up during removal.

Putting in the new ones I use a light touch with the soldering iron and take my time between points to let the PCB soak up and dissipate some of that heat.
I also try not to touch the pin directly with the tip of the iron, but rather heat the pad on the PCB and let the solder flow into the gap.
4 sprung duck technique.

Offline metalkeyboards

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #182 on: Wed, 07 July 2021, 13:46:37 »
Is mouse modding/building going to be  as big as keeeb building?
All METAL All DAY!

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #183 on: Wed, 07 July 2021, 22:10:07 »
Is mouse modding/building going to be  as big as keeeb building?
I replaced mouse switches before i replaced keyboard switches.
Asus had hot swapable switches before keyboards had hot swap.

Will it ever be as big? Absolutely not.
There's not many switches and very little variance between them so doing it is usually only done because they failed, not for personalization.

If you want to take it a step further into a hardcore custom, keyboards are a simple on/off flat design, relatively crude by modern mouse standards to be honest and yet cheaper in general. Keyboards are not only an older tech, but they've really not had the improvements mice have had. We had IBM Model Ms and Cherry MX before mice got rid of the ball, added a 3rd button or even had a scroll wheel. Modern mice have acceleration, focus, tracking, anti-lag (far more data is sent), crazy 3d shapes, scroll (a hassle to program with common firmware) and that's before you even get started on wireless which is far more popular on mice than keyboards. The best way I can explain how far apart they are is this, modern keyboards are like a 1930's hot rod, old school tech with some new parts thrown in to modernize it and make it faster, while awesome and very cool they're still very crude and repairable in your garage with common tools. By comparison a modern wireless mouse is more like a brand new Ferrari hypercar, you don't mess with it unless you have a trained tech and 5 computers connected to it.
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Offline smolid

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #184 on: Wed, 15 September 2021, 08:42:38 »
According to the datasheet the -01 marking refers to models which are rated to work at 0.1A instead of more general purpose non -01 models. I would guess that the -01 is more suitable for computer mice.
https://omronfs.omron.com/en_US/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf


Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #185 on: Thu, 16 September 2021, 03:55:38 »
According to the datasheet the -01 marking refers to models which are rated to work at 0.1A instead of more general purpose non -01 models. I would guess that the -01 is more suitable for computer mice.
https://omronfs.omron.com/en_US/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf
I believe you're referring to the ratings, which are typically max rating, not minimum.
We're not battling high voltage and amperage, we're battling an issue with too little amperage to maintain a closed connection and keep the contacts clean. Scroll down a bit, the number we need to pay attention to minimal applicable load and initial contact resistance.

Remember, most through-hole electronics, including switches, were designed back when low voltage was nowhere near what it is today. You used to always worry about how much it could handle, today with modern electronics we more often have to worry about how little a switch or connector can take and what frequencies it can handle.
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Offline smolid

  • Posts: 11
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #186 on: Sun, 26 September 2021, 01:38:19 »
According to the datasheet the -01 marking refers to models which are rated to work at 0.1A instead of more general purpose non -01 models. I would guess that the -01 is more suitable for computer mice.
https://omronfs.omron.com/en_US/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf
I believe you're referring to the ratings, which are typically max rating, not minimum.
We're not battling high voltage and amperage, we're battling an issue with too little amperage to maintain a closed connection and keep the contacts clean. Scroll down a bit, the number we need to pay attention to minimal applicable load and initial contact resistance.

Remember, most through-hole electronics, including switches, were designed back when low voltage was nowhere near what it is today. You used to always worry about how much it could handle, today with modern electronics we more often have to worry about how little a switch or connector can take and what frequencies it can handle.

I don't get what you mean, you just agreed that the problem is with too little amperage with current mice but prefer the non-01 general purpose model which has a spec'd minimum load of 100mA? Wouldn't the -01 model which is rated for 1mA minimum be the better choice?

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
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  • Posts: 3997
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #187 on: Sun, 26 September 2021, 03:31:51 »
Yes, for continuous current, our problem is not the continuous, I mean, it is, but the bigger issue we have is initial load.

The initial resistance on the -01 is higher, meaning the switch has a harder time making that initial contact and staying there. If it can't make a good closed connection it will bounce. It needs a certain amount to overcome that bounce and stay shut before you can even start to worry about minimum current.
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