Author Topic: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?  (Read 47099 times)

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Offline Hyde

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Hey guys before I start can we please keep it as a healthy and well informed discussion.  I know it's very easily to jump into a bashing war but I'd rather we have a discussion backed up with proofs.  Thanks !!!

List of Topre Keyboards:
Realforce - trademark and brand owned by Topre, see here
PFU Limited - contract customer of Topre for HHKB.
Leopold - Leopold is only the distributor for only the 87U.
Diatec - AKA Filco! Distributor for 91UDK-G, 91UBY (Yellow)
JUSTSYSTEM - 91ATOX (programmable key version?)
ILOVEX - The green and yellow monstrosity.
EliteKeyboards - Exclusive United States distributor (all models) to my knowledge.

So here's how it works. Topre manufactures all Topre switch keyboards to my knowledge. (Not sure if it's direct or indirect.) But they do not have a distribution channel for keyboards - their primary industries are things like refrigerated trucks, industrial paint application, you get the idea.

Now we're really confused, no? Here's how supply chain works for Realforce, abridged version.
Topre makes keyboards -> keyboards go to MAIN distribution -> shipped to regional distributor (think Ingram Micro, TechData equivalent) -> regional ships to retail -> you buy your keyboard from retail.
Topre makes contract order keyboard -> keyboards go to contract customer (e.g. PFU, ILOVEX) directly -> contract customer supply chain.

So for example, with the 87U what they might do is just ship all of them to Leopold who then sells and ships to retail (e.g. EK) so that Topre doesn't have to worry about any of it. So technically they're all distributed by Leopold, since Leopold is handling the distribution chain. But for a 105U they might ship direct to certain retailers, and through distributors for other regions. Leopold won't sell them to other retail channels in the US because EK has an exclusivity agreement, but is free to sell them to anyone they want in say, Japan or Taiwan or Europe. It's very complicated and confusing, yes.

Thank rootwyrm for all the Topre info  :P

List of Costar Keyboards:
GEEKHACK FAVORITE
Filco - Sounds like geekhack's most recommended.  Though I would like to hear if there's any problems with this.  For example the debatable "ping" issue.
CM Storm QuickFire Rapid - The most recommended bang for the buck keyboard, sometimes recommend over Filco.  Although only tenkeyless option available.
OTHER GOOD ONES
CM Storm QuickFire Trigger - A lot of confusion on this one but it's actually a Costar board confirmed by Carter.  Though doesn't seem to be as popular as QuickFire Rapid (most likely because of price and macro keys).
Last Gen Das Keyboard - Aside from the glossy finish, seems like a very good option.  The cheapest full size Costar board available next to Rosewill.
WASD Keyboards - A good solid option and let you customize your keycaps also.  Though can get very expensive very quickly depends on what you do with it.
Thermaltake MEKA G1 - Doesn't seem too popular either, too gamer?
Mionix Zibal 60 - Doesn't seem popular, maybe because it's expensive and it's green?
DEBATABLE
Rosewill 9000 - The cheapest fulll size Costar board, goes on sale occasionally for super cheap.  Has mini b connector issue that might or might not have been fixed.

Do keep in mind even though Costar is highly regarded amongst the forums, but they still vary in quality between brands.  For example Filco is consider higher quality than CM Storm and Rosewill.

List of iRocks Keyboards:
Thermaltake MEKA - MEKA NOT MEKA G1, different model.  This one is sort of like CM Storm TK layout with dedicated arrow key, quality unknown.
Rosewill 9100 - Backlit version of Rosewill keyboards, quality unknown.

List of Ducky Keyboards:
MOST RECOMMENDED BACKLIT
Ducky Shine II 9008/9087 - Made in Taiwan.  High quality backlit boards, one of the best backlit mechanical keyboards.
NEW
Ducky Zero 2008/2087 - Made in China.  New lineup to replaced the 1008/1087 series.  So far well received.
OLD
Ducky 1008/1087 - Made in Taiwan.  Though the 1000 series aren't so well received.

List of iOne Keyboards:
NOT WELL RECEIVED
Razer Blackwidow - Seems like there are a lot of negative feedback on it, but at the same time I heard a lot of people have no issues with it.  So not too sure.
Razer Blackwidow 2013 - It appears that the quality remains the same for their 2013 edition.
XArmor U9BL - I heard this is just bad, won't argue with it.
iOne Scorpious U9BL - Same as above.
HOWEVER
QPAD MK-85 - I heard this is actually a decent keyboard.
Max Keyboard - Same as the QPAD, I've mostly only heard great reviews regarding those.
AND
Monoprice - No review yet.
Adesso - No clue also.
CM Storm QuickFire Pro - Sounds like the main complaint is the regarding the plug, but I heard it's just people didn't plug it in all the way.  And got member stating that this actually has quality comparable to Costar boards.

This is a quote from Carter from OCN:
Quote
Moving away from that, iOne was actually not an awful manufacturer for us. The Pro unfortunately caught a bad wrap because we went with a snap method on the USB connector which required quite a bit of force to plug in.... In certain regions (Everywhere except North America) this was considered a really nice and secure fit/feature. The market here, was unable to plug in the keyboard properly and thus we had a "DOA" failure rate which was astronomical & deadly to the boards lifespan. In actuality the boards were perfectly fine.....

Source:  http://www.overclock.net/t/1316851/new-cooler-master-quickfire-tk-keyboard/60#post_18621069

List of Datacomp Keyboards:
SteelSeries 6GV2 - Decent keyboard from what I've heard.  Though I think this would definitely sell better if they just did a proper ANSI and ISO layouts instead of mixing it.

List of TG3 Keyboards:
Deck - Really high quality backlit keyboard with price tag around $180.  Has PBT dye sub keycaps (Clear plastic dye sub with black surrounding).  However only has MX Black and MX Clear switches choices at the moment.  Also some describe the font choice as "crayon scribble".

List of Plum Keyboards:
Plum - Made in China, otherwise unknown OEM.  Good soldering but questionable housing and keycaps, also loose keycaps.

List of Sunsky Technology Keyboards:
Noppoo Choc Mini - Made in China, don't know too much about quality.

Boards With Unknown Manufactures:
THE GOOD
Leopold - Thought they were made in Korea then one memeber claimed it's made in Taiwan.  But 2 member later claimed it's made in China, so I wonder if they changed OEM also.
THE UNKNOWN
Corsair K60 - One vote for this being actually good as oppose to K90.
Corsair K90 - Mostly negative feedback on this one.
New Das Keyboard - Not iOne, not Costar, and made in China.  Based on the new amazon review it appears that the new ones are indeed inferior to the old ones (Costar).
CM Storm TK - Not iOne, not Costar.
Logitech G710+ - No info at all, just doesn't look like Costar.  Seems really good quality but a lot of customers have reported LED flickering/dying early on.

Based on Carter's quote from the same article:
Quote
The OEM of TK is not one ever mentioned in Mechanical Keyboard market. Its quite funny as they have done several popular boards and manufacture one of the biggest hyped releases recently.

I'm guessing he's hinting Logitech G710+, so I wonder if CM Storm TK is made in the same place.

So what do you guys think, again keep it civil please.

EDIT:  Converted to OEM Discussion so we can talk about all the OEMs.
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 April 2013, 21:16:25 by Hyde »

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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 29 November 2012, 21:16:20 »
You've missed out Adesso and Monoprice from your list of iOne boards.
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Offline Carter

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 29 November 2012, 21:25:11 »
This will be fun!

Offline MissMurd3r84

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 29 November 2012, 21:27:49 »
I didn't mind my Blackwidow while it lasted, other than the fact it's a total finger print magnet, but now that I have seen the rust on it, I have to wonder what the heck went wrong.. Also saw a Das (Not sure what one, but it's on these forums) that has become rusted as well.
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Offline Hyde

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 29 November 2012, 21:49:34 »
You've missed out Adesso and Monoprice from your list of iOne boards.

Ok I'll add them in but I haven't heard any reviews regarding those yet so I don't know if they're good or bad.

I didn't mind my Blackwidow while it lasted, other than the fact it's a total finger print magnet, but now that I have seen the rust on it, I have to wonder what the heck went wrong.. Also saw a Das (Not sure what one, but it's on these forums) that has become rusted as well.

Uh which part rusted?  The plate mount?  Or stabilizer bars?  I don't think there are too many metal parts in a keyboard?  >___>

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
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Offline rootwyrm

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 29 November 2012, 21:54:55 »
I'll contribute some OEMs you've heard of but probably didn't know make keyboards (or have the capability to do so):
Hon Hai (AKA Foxconn)
Delta Electronics (no, seriously.)
Win Industry Company (primarily industrial keypads and flexible pad type)
Tai Hao (who specializes in - wait for it - mechanical keyboards and is based in Taiwan)
Cherry Corporation does some contract manufacturing (you provide the design, they provide the parts and knowhow.)
Keytronic is still cranking out solid parts year after year and a big ODM people forget about.
Mototech - which is another design and build house - think they're part of Accton and rolled together with Joy now?
Digitec Technology used to make some of Logitech's keyboards, think they're still around as well.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 November 2012, 21:59:26 by rootwyrm »
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Offline wetto

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 29 November 2012, 22:19:42 »
You've missed out Adesso and Monoprice from your list of iOne boards.

Ok I'll add them in but I haven't heard any reviews regarding those yet so I don't know if they're good or bad.

I didn't mind my Blackwidow while it lasted, other than the fact it's a total finger print magnet, but now that I have seen the rust on it, I have to wonder what the heck went wrong.. Also saw a Das (Not sure what one, but it's on these forums) that has become rusted as well.

Uh which part rusted?  The plate mount?  Or stabilizer bars?  I don't think there are too many metal parts in a keyboard?  >___>

Plate mount.

Blackwidow:



Das Keyboard:


Costar model, Ultimate S, btw. TheQsanity is the owner of this one.
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Mice: Logitech G602, CM Storm Recon, CM Storm Spawn, Razer Naga, Ozone Radon Opto, Corsair M60, Tesoro Gandiva, CM Storm Alcor, Mionix Naos 8200.
Keyboards: Matias Secure Pro, Matias Mini Quiet Pro, custom modded Metadot Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent (MX Brown, Costar), CM Storm Trigger (MX Brown), Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Red), Tesoro Lobera G5NFL Supreme, CM Storm Devastator.
Soon: CM Storm Quick Fire TK (MX Brown), CM Storm Trigger Z.
Boards I don't own anymore: CM Storm Quick Fire Rapid (MX Black), Logitech K800 (Membrane), Logitech G710+ (MX Brown), Thermaltake Meka G-Unit (MX Black), Corsair K70 (MX Red).
Mice I don't own anymore: Logitech G9x MW3, Corsair M65, Logitech G700, Roccat Kone Pure.

Offline zongeva

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 29 November 2012, 23:45:28 »
Who's the OEM for Corsair K60 and K90?

Offline Hyde

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 29 November 2012, 23:47:43 »
Mmmmm I wonder if it has to do with the location (humidity country) or using habit (spill water)?  Do you know how long has these boards been used?

Last time I pop open my Das it looks fine (10 months old).

I'll contribute some OEMs you've heard of but probably didn't know make keyboards (or have the capability to do so):
Hon Hai (AKA Foxconn)
Delta Electronics (no, seriously.)
Win Industry Company (primarily industrial keypads and flexible pad type)
Tai Hao (who specializes in - wait for it - mechanical keyboards and is based in Taiwan)
Cherry Corporation does some contract manufacturing (you provide the design, they provide the parts and knowhow.)
Keytronic is still cranking out solid parts year after year and a big ODM people forget about.
Mototech - which is another design and build house - think they're part of Accton and rolled together with Joy now?
Digitec Technology used to make some of Logitech's keyboards, think they're still around as well.

lol cool that's a nice list there I'll check them out.  Though some of them look like they have weird layout  :P

Who's the OEM for Corsair K60 and K90?

I've been wondering the same too.  Also seems like Ducky and Leopold are both made in Taiwan but we don't know which company.  I'll add them to the list.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 November 2012, 23:58:41 by Hyde »

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
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Offline MissMurd3r84

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 29 November 2012, 23:54:39 »
I certainly didn't spill anything on the BW, and I used it for umm about 14ish months until it got the double key pressing issues.
KBC Poker - Red switches. Noppoo Choc Mini - Black switches. Leopold FC700R (White) - Blue switches. Ducky YOTD - Brown switches. Razer BW - Blue switches and rusted.

Offline rowdy

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 00:10:21 »
Could have been a manufacturing defect - paint not evenly applied to the plate for example.  Or stored in a damp warehouse prior to distribution.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Hyde

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 00:12:58 »
Ahhhh then I'm not too sure, I'll let you know if it happens to me later.

Could have been a manufacturing defect - paint not evenly applied to the plate for example.  Or stored in a damp warehouse prior to distribution.

Sounds legit lol.

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
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Offline MissMurd3r84

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 00:27:45 »
Could have been a manufacturing defect - paint not evenly applied to the plate for example.  Or stored in a damp warehouse prior to distribution.
I'm still wondering about that random letter z that shows on there, as well.. seems odd.
KBC Poker - Red switches. Noppoo Choc Mini - Black switches. Leopold FC700R (White) - Blue switches. Ducky YOTD - Brown switches. Razer BW - Blue switches and rusted.

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 02:28:47 »
Well hello guys. This looks like a nice thread to bash on some companies...

j/k, I think the paint coming off on the inside is not a big issue. At least in my case. You can't tell unless you take some keys off. If you got it NIB and you can see it rusted before you take some keys off, that may be more of an issue.(my Das is Costar)

On a more important note, You should probably list some Costar keyboards with their known defects. Since these two are the two big names. It wouldn't be fair and bias if we listed just one manufacture. If you guys want to be superstars, you could add other OEMs and other keyboards with unknown OEMs into a category.

I am actually a little more of an iOne fan believe it or not. The bashing and what not has made them undesirable, which is good, thus making people not buy them, thus making the prices cheaper. I am currently waiting for another big slip-up to happen. That is when I will be in the market for iOne, but not a Razer. They are just bad all around. If you have been watching (ebay), you could have seen the prices drop dramatically over the past half year. Hope there still aren't anymore people buying RBWU.


The prices on the new RBW line aren't too bad and actually look kind of nice. Too bad they lost my loyalty. When I am comparing the durability or reliability of a keyboard, I  consider the product over the cost, giving me the value. Ducky is not very good in my opinion because it just costs too much. I have heard bad things about Ducky but have also heard that they have "gotten a lot better" also. The Quick Fire Pro on the other hand feels just like their other Costar counterparts, if not better. So I would say feel and sturdiness is not to be confused with reliable as I hear those terms thrown around together a lot. Some keyboards may feel solid but have faulty PBCs or firmware and others may feel light and flimsy but still work great.
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 03:46:12 »
I have a wireless xarmor for my HTPC and though its not built as well as say a filco or any comparible board it hasnt fallen apart yet.

Offline vun

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 07:23:12 »
From what I've heard the QPad board is just a rebranded XArmor, I don't think they've made any significant changes other than the branding as it's not the only rebranded product they sell.

Offline phetto

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 07:26:08 »
To be honest, Corsair K60 is one of the best built keyboards on the market. I have never felt such quality.
If it wouldnt be so ugly and using domes on some keys I would still have it :P

Offline xyril

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 07:28:55 »
Im sorry , does Quickfire Rapid is  iOne or costar? :)

Offline vun

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 07:29:16 »
Im sorry , does Quickfire Rapid is  iOne or costar? :)
The QFR is Costar

Offline wetto

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 08:41:45 »
To be honest, Corsair K60 is one of the best built keyboards on the market. I have never felt such quality.
If it wouldnt be so ugly and using domes on some keys I would still have it :P

Kinda weird... The K60 may be good as you say (but I dislike its price tag), but now, the K90 is a horrible piece of crap. Not only are many of its keys rubber domes (especially the macros), but Corsair's macro software sucks more than what I've seen on US$ 30 gaming keyboards. It's just terrible and unfortunately my mouse has the same Macro system as it and honestly, when your mouse's firmware gets corrupted just because you changed a DPI setting, you know that they did something very wrong.

Also, one of the few K90s I knew just died soon after shutting down a PC.

And actually, one of the reasons why they feel so durable, is that rather than making a PCB > Aluminium Plate > Plastic cover, they just eliminated the plastic cover and made most of the keyboard of Aluminium, thus making it seem like it's more durable than other mechanical keyboards, while I don't think that's actually true...
« Last Edit: Fri, 30 November 2012, 08:44:06 by wetto »
My collection:
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Mice: Logitech G602, CM Storm Recon, CM Storm Spawn, Razer Naga, Ozone Radon Opto, Corsair M60, Tesoro Gandiva, CM Storm Alcor, Mionix Naos 8200.
Keyboards: Matias Secure Pro, Matias Mini Quiet Pro, custom modded Metadot Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent (MX Brown, Costar), CM Storm Trigger (MX Brown), Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Red), Tesoro Lobera G5NFL Supreme, CM Storm Devastator.
Soon: CM Storm Quick Fire TK (MX Brown), CM Storm Trigger Z.
Boards I don't own anymore: CM Storm Quick Fire Rapid (MX Black), Logitech K800 (Membrane), Logitech G710+ (MX Brown), Thermaltake Meka G-Unit (MX Black), Corsair K70 (MX Red).
Mice I don't own anymore: Logitech G9x MW3, Corsair M65, Logitech G700, Roccat Kone Pure.

Offline xavierblak

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 08:54:59 »
Leopold - I always thought they were made in Korea but some member mentioned the bottom label says made in Taiwan.

Just looked at the label on my leopold at work it says, "Made in China". It's a full size not a tenless so they may be built in different places.

Offline MissMurd3r84

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 09:02:37 »
Leopold - I always thought they were made in Korea but some member mentioned the bottom label says made in Taiwan.

Just looked at the label on my leopold at work it says, "Made in China". It's a full size not a tenless so they may be built in different places.
I'm is a TKL and made in China.
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Offline Hyde

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 13:08:04 »
Ok updated info on Corsair K60, Leopold, and added SteelSeries 6GV2 and Costar OEM  :)

From what I've heard the QPad board is just a rebranded XArmor, I don't think they've made any significant changes other than the branding as it's not the only rebranded product they sell.

I heard the internal is heavily updated and added a lot more features on the QPAD and Max Keyboards, for example they have resister on all the LEDs and also added internal memory (so when you reboot it saves setting).

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Offline Binge

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 13:43:27 »
I've got one for ya under unknown... Plum.  I own two of their 96 key boards.  PCB mounted, PBT or POM laser etched keycaps.  Lots of modding options and has a blue-tooth.  The soldering quality is great, quality of housing and keycaps are questionable.  The keycaps are easy to remove and do not fit tightly.  One of my boards came without the feet which would prop up the board.  Usually available to us over Taobao
« Last Edit: Fri, 30 November 2012, 13:45:39 by Binge »
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Offline wetto

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 14:35:35 »
I've got one for ya under unknown... Plum.  I own two of their 96 key boards.  PCB mounted, PBT or POM laser etched keycaps.  Lots of modding options and has a blue-tooth.  The soldering quality is great, quality of housing and keycaps are questionable.  The keycaps are easy to remove and do not fit tightly.  One of my boards came without the feet which would prop up the board.  Usually available to us over Taobao

And also the next keyboard I'm buying, for sure.

And I mean, US$ 100 with shipping to my country? Dang, that's cheap for all it offers!  ;D
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Soon: CM Storm Quick Fire TK (MX Brown), CM Storm Trigger Z.
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Offline xavierblak

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 14:55:16 »
I'm is a TKL and made in China.

Hmm. Interesting. This thread made me do some google searching. I only really was able to find leopolds with a label saying they were made in China.
A review with some pictures.
A page for a FC700R showing the back label. It's small but you can see Made in China.

But then I found a few reviews for some tenless version that show they were made in Taiwan.
One review
Second review

I don't know what this means exactly but leopolds have at one point been made in China and in Taiwan.

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 15:04:11 »
The 6GV2 and 7G are both Costar CST104 variant. The 6GV2 is closer to the 'stock.' This is also true of the Thermaltake Meka G1 and WASDKeyboards as well. They are all the exact same base model, with changes made to meet OEM design. The controllers are directly swappable when feature matched. So all four of those are known to be CST104.
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Offline Hyde

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 15:11:45 »
Ahhhh cool I'll update the list.  Also adding Plum.

Thanks guys, keep the feedbacks coming  :D

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
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Offline wetto

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 15:27:52 »
Ahhhh cool I'll update the list.  Also adding Plum.

Thanks guys, keep the feedbacks coming  :D

Hyde, I think both PLUM and DUCKY are also OEMs...

If I'm not mistaken, PLUM also makes Nopooo keyboards.
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Soon: CM Storm Quick Fire TK (MX Brown), CM Storm Trigger Z.
Boards I don't own anymore: CM Storm Quick Fire Rapid (MX Black), Logitech K800 (Membrane), Logitech G710+ (MX Brown), Thermaltake Meka G-Unit (MX Black), Corsair K70 (MX Red).
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Offline laffindude

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 15:41:03 »
The 6GV2 and 7G are both Costar CST104 variant. The 6GV2 is closer to the 'stock.' This is also true of the Thermaltake Meka G1 and WASDKeyboards as well. They are all the exact same base model, with changes made to meet OEM design. The controllers are directly swappable when feature matched. So all four of those are known to be CST104.

SS are Datacomps. The PCB and component choices are highly similar to known MIT Leopolds (Datacomp made).

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 16:13:51 »
SS are Datacomps. The PCB and component choices are highly similar to known MIT Leopolds (Datacomp made).

Really now? That raises an interesting question. Question being whether Datacomp == Costar or there's something else going on. I haven't been able to confirm the 6GV2/7G, but I have on WASD. And the controllers are literally identical to a marked CST104 right down to the PN. I don't mean "figurative" identical. I mean WASD's got the omitted U1 on a 94VB and the Meka G1 has U1 on a 94UD part number. (AKA Costar "Sydney" - silk screening varies.) That MAY be WASDv1 vs v2 though?

But more to the Datacomp question; how is it they're experiencing the exact same keycap defects? And I do mean exact same - you'd have to do some serious chemical and mechanical analysis to have any hope of telling them apart. (Hell, look at the reviews. Identical complaints. Identical timespans.) So are Datacomp and Costar using the same third party for keycaps? I was under the impression both of them also made their own keycaps.
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Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline davkol

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 16:25:20 »
My 6Gv2 has "DCK101" under the spacebar. Note that it has weird layout, Cherry stabilizers (I've heard they're knock-offs), no legs and some other specific "features".

Offline laffindude

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 16:28:18 »
I hear there are only 2 manufacturers for MX caps in Taiwan. They are not molded in house at Datacomp/CST.

Offline davkol

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 16:33:33 »
BTW I would add Tt eSports Meka (non-G1) to the list. It's made by iRocks (made in Taiwan). I'm not sure about rating though ó it feels quite solid, but the rest is... ummm... it has weird layout, bit too stiff Cherry-style stabilizers (especially in combination with Cherry MX Black) etc.

It should be also noted that backlit Rosewills probably aren't made by Costar.

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 16:40:44 »
I hear there are only 2 manufacturers for MX caps in Taiwan. They are not molded in house at Datacomp/CST.

That would explain it then, yes. The question then becomes who's providing who, because one of them is definitely shipping large numbers of defective parts. And Datacomp and Costar are both using the same one for at least some orders, if not all of them.

But yes - the 6GV2 is definitely an OEM DCK100, so I stand corrected! What's particularly interesting there is the severe derating of the switches. Datacomp is saying 20M cycle for Cherry MX - versus Cherry's stated rating of 50M operations. I'll have to do some poking of my sources, see if I can find out some more info. (There is a reason I presumed Costar, but I can't give details.)
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Offline laffindude

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 16:43:58 »
I believe the site is just old info. The cherry switches were rated for 20mil actuations until recently (50mil for blacks always I think).

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 16:45:14 »
It should be also noted that backlit Rosewills probably aren't made by Costar.

There's almost no chance Rosewills are made by Costar, at least not consistently. Rosewill is in fact, Newegg. (Same owners, different name. It's the typical shady trick dating to the 90's.) Look downmarket - this is evidenced by their rebranded PSUs, generally rated between "junk" and "guaranteed to catch fire."
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline davkol

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 16:59:16 »
It should be also noted that backlit Rosewills probably aren't made by Costar.

There's almost no chance Rosewills are made by Costar, at least not consistently. Rosewill is in fact, Newegg. (Same owners, different name. It's the typical shady trick dating to the 90's.) Look downmarket - this is evidenced by their rebranded PSUs, generally rated between "junk" and "guaranteed to catch fire."
Here we go:
It was already determined it is made by iRocks and is a rebranded KR6251E. The bottom row was a real put off to me as well, I wouldn't buy one of them for that alone.

Offline laffindude

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 17:03:53 »
RK9000 series are Costar. It has CST part number on the PCB. http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/rosewill_rk_9000_mechanical_keyboard_review,4.html
Depending on the subcontracted manufacturing partner, Costar can vary from so so to OK.

Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 17:05:18 »
I believe the site is just old info. The cherry switches were rated for 20mil actuations until recently (50mil for blacks always I think).

Aye, from what I've heard, until fairly recently, only MX Black were rated for 50 million; the others were only rated for 20 million.

Incidentally, I'm not sure that they actually changed anything when they changed the ratings, which raises an interesting question...are all Cherry colors really equal in longevity?
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Offline rootwyrm

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 17:31:06 »
RK9000 series are Costar. It has CST part number on the PCB. http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/rosewill_rk_9000_mechanical_keyboard_review,4.html
Depending on the subcontracted manufacturing partner, Costar can vary from so so to OK.

Well, as I said, "it's not Costar consistently." You might put two RK9000's side by side and have two entirely different manufacturers with entirely different quality. I've seen some of their non-keyboard rebrands where the 'same' part was two totally different manufacturers and components more than once. So even when it looks identical from the outside and has the same PN, there's no guarantee that it's the same.

Quote
Aye, from what I've heard, until fairly recently, only MX Black were rated for 50 million; the others were only rated for 20 million.

That's interesting and a half; I'm wondering if I was looking at different documents back then or I'm just misremembering. To the best of my memory, it was 50M previously for the entire line. I specifically remember early G80 family sales sheets for OEMs and resellers touting their 50M operation lifecycle. (Don't remember if they were actually Cherry sheets or IM/TD sheets.) But this was years and years ago - '97ish I think. Honestly, 50M is probably still low, but a reasonable average. Plus I think we still have the open question of whether or not it's electrical operations or mechanical operations, don't we?
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Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline laffindude

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 17:56:33 »
You might put two RK9000's side by side and have two entirely different manufacturers with entirely different quality. I've seen some of their non-keyboard rebrands where the 'same' part was two totally different manufacturers and components more than once. So even when it looks identical from the outside and has the same PN, there's no guarantee that it's the same.

The thing is, they can be different manufacturers and still fall under the label of Costar.

Offline rowdy

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OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 18:19:57 »
We need a wiki page for all this.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline TheQsanity

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 18:23:11 »
Wiki </3
SmallFry! <3

Offline Hyde

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 18:24:42 »
We need a wiki page for all this.

Yupe someone else should do it because I'm lazy LOL.  Originally made it because I feel sorry for iOne but really didn't intend for this to get this big LOLLLL.  Though I'll try to update this as much as I can and hopefully this will help new users making their choices.

Updated Datacomp, Ducky, Plum, iRocks as OEM list.  On a random note, why would anyone name their brand Noppoo?  Sounds like no poo as in constipated  :confused:
« Last Edit: Fri, 30 November 2012, 18:34:50 by Hyde »

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
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Offline wetto

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 19:39:51 »
We need a wiki page for all this.

Yupe someone else should do it because I'm lazy LOL.  Originally made it because I feel sorry for iOne but really didn't intend for this to get this big LOLLLL.  Though I'll try to update this as much as I can and hopefully this will help new users making their choices.

Updated Datacomp, Ducky, Plum, iRocks as OEM list.  On a random note, why would anyone name their brand Noppoo?  Sounds like no poo as in constipated  :confused:

Well, still better than naming a brand Rapoo and selling low quality keyboards with fake Cherry switches.



Dem yellows  ;D
My collection:
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Mice: Logitech G602, CM Storm Recon, CM Storm Spawn, Razer Naga, Ozone Radon Opto, Corsair M60, Tesoro Gandiva, CM Storm Alcor, Mionix Naos 8200.
Keyboards: Matias Secure Pro, Matias Mini Quiet Pro, custom modded Metadot Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent (MX Brown, Costar), CM Storm Trigger (MX Brown), Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Red), Tesoro Lobera G5NFL Supreme, CM Storm Devastator.
Soon: CM Storm Quick Fire TK (MX Brown), CM Storm Trigger Z.
Boards I don't own anymore: CM Storm Quick Fire Rapid (MX Black), Logitech K800 (Membrane), Logitech G710+ (MX Brown), Thermaltake Meka G-Unit (MX Black), Corsair K70 (MX Red).
Mice I don't own anymore: Logitech G9x MW3, Corsair M65, Logitech G700, Roccat Kone Pure.

Offline amarshonarbangla

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 22:29:38 »
How's the Razer Blackwidow 2013? I have been hearing it's better than its predecessor when it comes to build quality. Is that true? Are they still made by iOne?

Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 30 November 2012, 22:41:30 »
We need a wiki page for all this.

Yupe someone else should do it because I'm lazy LOL.  Originally made it because I feel sorry for iOne but really didn't intend for this to get this big LOLLLL.  Though I'll try to update this as much as I can and hopefully this will help new users making their choices.

Updated Datacomp, Ducky, Plum, iRocks as OEM list.  On a random note, why would anyone name their brand Noppoo?  Sounds like no poo as in constipated  :confused:

Well, still better than naming a brand Rapoo and selling low quality keyboards with fake Cherry switches.

Show Image


Dem yellows  ;D

They also have a more expensive one with real Cherry switches, the V5. The V7 is more of a "budget" model.
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Offline MissMurd3r84

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Re: iOne Discussion - Are they really as bad as people claimed?
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 01 December 2012, 02:04:25 »
I'm is a TKL and made in China.

Hmm. Interesting. This thread made me do some google searching. I only really was able to find leopolds with a label saying they were made in China.
A review with some pictures.
A page for a FC700R showing the back label. It's small but you can see Made in China.

But then I found a few reviews for some tenless version that show they were made in Taiwan.
One review
Second review

I don't know what this means exactly but leopolds have at one point been made in China and in Taiwan.
Why the hell I wrote "I'm" instead of mine is beyond me. Anyways, only thing I can think of is they changed countries of production to make the FC700R. Either way, it feels like a great keyboard, except I hate the caps on it  :))
KBC Poker - Red switches. Noppoo Choc Mini - Black switches. Leopold FC700R (White) - Blue switches. Ducky YOTD - Brown switches. Razer BW - Blue switches and rusted.

Offline rowdy

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Re: OEM Discussion (Originally iOne Discussion) - The Good And The Bad?
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 01 December 2012, 03:44:22 »
I reckon you are TKL, MissMurd3r84.  Unless you have a numeric keypad growing out of your forehead ;)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ