April '13 Geekhack key -- Cherry legends final push

[mkawa]

For this set will there be the option to have the whole set like the GeekHack backspace even the modifiers?

ideally, yes. if we can keep costs down, we want to include both a PC on ABS modifier set and an ABS on PC modifier set. tsangan kits will, of course be an option as well. We're still working on specifics, as we need to pay to cut and proto a metric crapload of legends first, and pricing is higher than standard ABS 2-shot, but we're going to do our best to make this the most epic set yet

[Psybin]

Ordered the backspace and keychain!

I'm in for a full set as well whenever that goes down.

Thanks!

[Lunartuna]

Do we have any idea on durability of polycarb compared to ABS? Will ABS on PC develop shine faster than PC on ABS or vise versa?

[mkawa]

polycarbonate is harder than abs, but less temperature resistant and more brittle. think compact disc (made of polycarb) vs GI Joe (mostly abs)

ignoring hardness, polycarb is probably less likely to develop shine due solely to the fact that we're using translucent polycarb. shine is necessarily reflected light, and our polycarb reflects much less light than non-translucent plastics. the flip side of this is that it may show more scratching (refraction through the material).

[Lunartuna]

Thanks for the answers.

Now more! 

I know this will be a Cherry legend set but I'm wondering if that lower case typewriter style is a special font used on the "geekhack" backspace? Is it something you had cut and proto or does SP have that font available? Might be neat to have a set of modifiers done in the same style although I'm sure people are much more interested in having the modifiers cherry legends as well.

Just curious I guess.

[mkawa]

that legend was cut as part of group buy "round 3", many moons ago. it's not an SP font. in fact, it was totally one-off. i'm not even sure we know what font it was anymore.

[mkawa]

polycarb 1st shots on dark second shots don't tend to give enough contrast. the reflectivity of the white 2nd shot is really the best case for contrast.

Maybe, but subtlety can be good too!

Or for those determined to 'pop': remove stab, add orange LEDs.

ah, but too dark a second shot and not even the LED can shine through the 2nd shot

[Soarer]

polycarb 1st shots on dark second shots don't tend to give enough contrast. the reflectivity of the white 2nd shot is really the best case for contrast.

Maybe, but subtlety can be good too!

Or for those determined to 'pop': remove stab, add orange LEDs.

ah, but too dark a second shot and not even the LED can shine through the 2nd shot

Eh? Unless we're misunderstanding one another, that's the point of having a dark second shot - light shines through the polycarb legend but not the rest, giving max contrast. Even though there would perhaps be more shadow from the lattice pattern of second shot behind the legend, I think the effect would still be good.

[mkawa]

light has to reflect for you to see anything. consider a truly black 2nd shot (like 0K black) and transparent PC first shot (no index of refraction, 0 reflectivity). light shines through the PC first shot and is absorbed by the 2nd shot. you see nothing, no contrast. now fix reflectivity of the polycarb at say 50% (ie, p=1/2 of reflection) at a given wavelength. you get increasing amount of contrast as reflectivity of the 2nd shot increases. at pure white, it is at its maximum across all wavelengths and ta-da, that's where we are right now.

[Soarer]

Sounds like crap to me Light is way more complex than that...

Essentially, there are plenty of paths, are there not, for light from LEDs to travel (and spread slightly) through the polycarb first shot, lighting it up, and therefore max contrast is with a dark second shot.

Without LEDs, it would be a much more subtle key, but one where the first shot catches light (e.g. from your monitor). Sure, it wouldn't be 'in-yer-face', so maybe the masses wouldn't appreciate its sophistication, but I think it could be one of the classiest effects ever seen on novelty keys!

[Lunartuna]

So the modifiers will be the reflective orange with white legends and vice versa if costs allow, sweet!

I wonder if a single LED will uniformally light up the whole modifier keycap being this reflective orange colour.

I'm guessing the legends will be top centered to line up with LEDs like on a Ducky board?

The more I think about this the more I want!

So when is this GB going down?

[Soarer]

I don't think the reverse modifiers (polycarb second shot) would work well backlit, because the first shot would block too much light (whatever its colour).

[Lunartuna]

I don't think the reverse modifiers (polycarb second shot) would work well backlit, because the first shot would block too much light (whatever its colour).

GH Jan pack looks great LED backlit, I'm wondering if the orange will hold the light better. It's going to be very unique looking regardless

[Soarer]

I don't think the reverse modifiers (polycarb second shot) would work well backlit, because the first shot would block too much light (whatever its colour).

GH Jan pack looks great LED backlit, I'm wondering if the orange will hold the light better. It's going to be very unique looking regardless

I'm not convinced I'd like that look... but the polycarb would probably look better than the Jan pack, at a guess

[i3oilermaker]

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

We just made margin on these keys.  That means every backspace sold from here on out will go entirely to the Cherry Replica Legend fund.

If you were planning on pledging money to get legends cut NOW IS YOUR CHANCE.

4 Backspace keys buys us a legend!

[Lunartuna]

Any name for this set yet? Orange Creamsicle? 

[tjcaustin]

Any name for this set yet? Orange Creamsicle? 

I'll stab a *****...

[Lunartuna]

Here's a nice pic. This is on the lowest brightness setting on my Ducky. A whole set.... no words

[mkawa]

Sounds like crap to me Light is way more complex than that...

light is simple (hah!). materials are complicated!

Essentially, there are plenty of paths, are there not, for light from LEDs to travel (and spread slightly) through the polycarb first shot, lighting it up, and therefore max contrast is with a dark second shot.

Without LEDs, it would be a much more subtle key, but one where the first shot catches light (e.g. from your monitor). Sure, it wouldn't be 'in-yer-face', so maybe the masses wouldn't appreciate its sophistication, but I think it could be one of the classiest effects ever seen on novelty keys!

you might very well be right. i gave the worst-case example, but we can run more experiments once the fund has the money to spare. right now high value (and cost) target number one is cherry legends.

[Soarer]

Bah... I meant "Light's interaction with stuff..." then, I guess

Just don't rule it out... I mean, you can spot a diamond even when set in silver, and there's not much 'contrast' there

[i3oilermaker]

I apologize if this sounds repetitive from my previous post, but I've heard some confusion and want to clarify:

If you pledged money in the "adopt a key" thread some time ago, that program has been abandoned.  You will not be asked to donate that money, and are kindly asked to BUY GeekHack April Backspace keys instead!  At this point the cost of the keys has been covered and every dollar of a purchased GH April Backspace key will be dropped into SP's pocket for cutting us a new set of legends.

[mkawa]

Bah... I meant "Light's interaction with stuff..." then, I guess

Just don't rule it out... I mean, you can spot a diamond even when set in silver, and there's not much 'contrast' there

good point. so now it's just a simple matter of making diamonds and silver out of plastic....

[Glod]

February key still the best key/method but that's just my thought

this is what the modifiers of the full set will look like

sweet

[strafe]

February key still the best key/method but that's just my thought

Agreed.  I'd really like a Dolch replica set in White on PC

[Megaweapon]

You ever remove a computer bezel and notice how the power/HDD activity LED's are fed?  Depending on the case design there is frequently a clear piece of plastic that runs between the LED and the bezel.  Sometimes the actual LED is nowhere near the hole on the bezel where the light is delivered, so this clear piece of plastic has a couple of right angles in it.

I wonder if keycaps could use a similar technique to get a more precise and even delivery of light (as well as allow for legends to be placed anywhere on the cap, for keys like shift and enter).

[whiteduck]

got one for the cause!

[mkawa]

those are called light pipes and are generally made out of translucent colored polycarbonate just as our caps are. however, it's not really possible to make keycaps that also double as light pipes for the MX1a switch given the datasheet LED placement. basically, such a keycap would have to be solid around the cruciform. MX caps can't be sold around the cruciform for obvious reasons (actuation!).

that said, there's a little room to play around with. if someone can find an O-ring material that is translucent (finding one shouldn't be hard, but i'm going to take a guess that any material that has this property will make for a very hard o-ring), this would at least distribute the LED light more uniformly around the switch and hence the cap. similarly, a translucent "landing pad" would do the job as well. with a perfectly clear landing pad light guide, the light will be more distributed around the cap. with a slightly more opaque landing pad guide, the keys will pop a little more when you actuate them. it could definitely be quite cool.

pretty much any other solution would require a redesign of the MX switch itself.

[leesofi]

here is solution if you have time to do that.

http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/photo/6236514

[esoomenona]

^Those are actually interesting. Were those something that that person invented? Or were they available beforehand and he just found them and they happened to work out perfectly?

[leesofi]

it was peronal work. making pcb , soldering smd chip and so on.

[esoomenona]

Is he planning on possibly starting a GB to have those made?

[Batmann]

Set goals guys,
every time you ask for donations we don't know what's already been raised and what is still needed.

[i3oilermaker]

Set goals guys,
every time you ask for donations we don't know what's already been raised and what is still needed.

Coming soon at: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42659.0

[SmallFry]

^Those are actually interesting. Were those something that that person invented? Or were they available beforehand and he just found them and they happened to work out perfectly?

Agreed. Quite an interesting gizmo.

[Batmann]

Set goals guys,
every time you ask for donations we don't know what's already been raised and what is still needed.

Coming soon at: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42659.0

Nice, thanks i3oiler

[leesofi]

Is he planning on possibly starting a GB to have those made?

No, he mentioned it takes so many time.
if factory make that automatic, someone can start GB, i think.

[zenuty]

I wanted to remake it

Geek Hack !!

[Lunartuna]

Picked up a Backspace. Could only afford one, hope it helps!

[AGmurdercore]

Sorry if this has been reported already but how much will be the estimate cost of a whole set of the new caps?

[mkawa]

we don't have solid numbers yet. we'll release details as we work them out

[AGmurdercore]

we don't have solid numbers yet. we'll release details as we work them out

Ok great, will keep an eye on the thread

[badcop]

i bought half a legend! 

[mkawa]

Folks,

We only have 50 more of these keys, and won't be producing them again. If you want one, now might be the time.

[SmallFry]

Pertaining to legends, does each profile require a whole new payment for legends? Or now that we have the Cherry legends can we use them between profiles such as DSA and DSC (I'm a bit flaky today, I think that's the profile we usually use)

[mashby]

Folks,

We only have 50 more of these keys, and won't be producing them again. If you want one, now might be the time.

I was hoping to hold out until the May GH keys came out to try and save on shipping, but couldn't risk it. 

Ordered 2.

[mkawa]

Pertaining to legends, does each profile require a whole new payment for legends? Or now that we have the Cherry legends can we use them between profiles such as DSA and DSC (I'm a bit flaky today, I think that's the profile we usually use)

each key profile family requires a new legend to be cut. ie DCS legends cannot be used to make DSA keys.

[SmallFry]

Pertaining to legends, does each profile require a whole new payment for legends? Or now that we have the Cherry legends can we use them between profiles such as DSA and DSC (I'm a bit flaky today, I think that's the profile we usually use)

each key profile family requires a new legend to be cut. ie DCS legends cannot be used to make DSA keys.

Poo. Alrighty, so next fund raiser.... DSA CHERRY!

[Lunartuna]

[mashby]

I ordered two and they arrived this week. None of the boards at my office currently have LED backlighting, so I used a small flashlight instead. 


Aziz, Light! by Michael Ashby, on Flickr

[IPT]

got mine, but obviously no backlit so its just boring =(