Author Topic: 60% Cherry MX 8100 mod  (Read 11523 times)

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Offline komar007

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 09:46:13 »
Here is an example of what you can do with your cheap POS Cherry keyboard if you have a few days and some basic plastic cutting and soldering tools. This is not an instruction, but a description of my mod written a couple of months after I made it, so it may be missing a few details. Feel free to ask questions;)

TL;DR?
I built a 60% keyboard from a Cherry MX 8100 and an ikea cutlery container. It looks like this:
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40359[/ATTACH]
Thanks for reading.

Not TL;DR? Here it goes...

Firstly, a link: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?1...eBay-for-20usd.
I bought 3 of these keyboards from rawko on ebay, because they were cheap, and I'd never tried Cherry Clears before. One of the ideas was to build my first custom keyboard, so I thought this was a good source of clears.

Anyway, I'll present how to modify the big cherry board with magnetic card swiper and turn it into a 60% compact keyboard. Or rather how to destroy the board completely, and then build a keyboard from the parts and pieces. This is not an actual instructable, but it presents the basic steps of building it and documents the process.

Step one: shrink the keyboard to desired size, don't care for broken connections;)
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40373[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40374[/ATTACH]
The left photo shows the pcb with all the switches but those I needed removed, after cutting it into two parts - the 60% block for the new build and the unnecessary rest. You can see that I removed the keycaps close to the cutting line, because my milling bit was touching them while milling. I even destroyed one cap before I realized that. These diamond mills are real beasts, at 20,000 rpm you won't even feel you're milling through plastic or your finger!
The top part is pretty rough, because I didn't have any support, and I was basically holding the board with my hands; the target board is already smoothed with sandpaper. There's one more thing I didn't think about when milling, I should really have removed all the switches and resoldered them after cutting, because the dust got inside and it took a long time to clean it later, even though I had protected the switches with a solid layer of duct tape.
In the background of the right photo is the original keyboard (well, not exactly that same device obviously...)

Step two: trace the matrix and check which connections you've destroyed
After cutting out the main block, some of the matrix connections were obviously broken. I traced the connections and it appeared that after connecting some sections together and fixing those connections I had broken I could end up with an 8x8 matrix. Pretty good for a 61-key board.
Unfortunately I don't have a photo of the pcb with just the matrix fixed. In the next step you'll see the added connections in the background.
This Cherry board used switches with diodes, so you have to be careful what you're connecting together to make sure you have all the cathodes/anodes on either columns or rows.

Step three: make the controller
I wanted to have the keyboard working as soon as possible so I decided to prototype a controller in as little time as possible. The result of this is an improvised device with just what is necessary to get the ATmega32u4 up and running. I don't have any schematics, because I never made one, but what you see below is basically a teensy 2.0 with the unnecessary stuff removed mounted on a tqfp prototype board with leftover resistor/led leads used as connectors.
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40376[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40377[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40378[/ATTACH]
You can see some "innovative" solutions like wires going around the board to the other side or additional drills, to make the USB B socket as stable as possible to prevent it from damage while the cable is moving. The controller in these pictures is already connected to the pcb with a ribbon cable. The other ends of the wires are soldered to switch pins chosen nearly randomly within nets in a way which doesn't require to much mess in the cables.
In the right picture is the controller laid out as it should be with the ribbons routed and connected.
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40390[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40380[/ATTACH]
Here is the bottom of the board after connecting everything together. You can also see my desk and my professional atx-fan-in-multimeter-box fume extractor;)

Step four: if you don't know how to connect two parts together, use the glue gun... and regret it
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40381[/ATTACH]
So I thought, this is a really dirty mod and I don't even know if I'm going to use it, so let's just hot-glue the controller to the board.
Well, even if I did have the photos of the thing glued, I wouldn't show them here, but basically I didn't put anything between the two surfaces before applying glue and I had shorts appearing randomly as I pressed the board with my hands.
Believe me, it's really hard to cut through hot-melt adhesive, even with a sharp exacto knife.
So after a few more hours I had the controller reattached and protected from shorts with the bottom pcb. The gluing job looked even uglier, especially after I realized that it wouldn't fit in the case (see step six - building the case) and had to remove some of the glue to lay the capacitors flat and then reglue them to the board.

Step five: clean your desk
I downloaded the example USB HID code from the teensy project's page, replaced the dummy parts with some matrix scanning and it basically started to work;)
Then I cleaned my desk and cut some cardboard and packing foam to form a sensible base for the keyboard. Did I mention, that the thing couldn't even lay flat on the desk, because of the USB socket on the left?
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40386[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40383[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40384[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40385[/ATTACH]
After a few hours of use I decided to do something about the current "design", because the front of the keyboard (space, modifiers, etc) was really to high. Time for a case!

Step five and a half: clean the switches
After cutting, a lot of dust got into the switches and some of them had some minor problems, like not registering presses or registering them too many times;)
So I decided to clean everything thoroughly to make sure the keyboard would work for some more time.
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40361[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40362[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40363[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40364[/ATTACH]
I removed the plastic tops (a bit tricky at first, but after a couple, it's really easy) and sprayed the housings with compressed air. Then I sprayed the stems with "universal silicone oil" (that's what the label said) and put some additional green grease of unknown origin on the bottom parts of the stems. The whole process took about an hour and the switches started working much better, so I think it was worth it.

Step six: build the case
I really got convinced that the 61 keys are more than enough for all my needs. Such layout has some advantages, for example the mouse is as close to the hands while typing as possible. And you can press enter with your right hand while it's resting on the mouse. So I was already using this board as a daily-driver, but well, even considering my aesthetic requirements, this thing didn't look too good. And it was sliding all over the desk. So I decided to make a case. But I'd never designed a case in my life. Well, wait. I've never designed a case in my life.
The following description can't be treated as an instruction or anything like it, because it's basically a few photos which I took while building the case. The process was not planned, so I don't even know how I did it, but somehow the improvisation turned into a case. Maybe not a nice-looking one, but still a case.
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40389[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40372[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40388[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40370[/ATTACH]
For the plastic, I chose an ikea cutlery container.
The link is here: http://www.ikea.com/pl/pl/catalog/products/40177228/. For some reason they don't have them on the US webpage, I don't know if they have them in the stores...
The thing is really cheap and I already had one at home so I thought, a case for a dollar? Why not;)
In the second picture you can see a part of the base of the container cut out to form the base of the keyboard case. The long brim will be attached to the base to form the back finish, as shown in pictures 3 and 4, but a bit higher. I had to make the back of the keyboard of two parts of plastic, because the brim of the plastic thing was facing outwards which I really didn't like. All in all, I think that line where the two parts join you'll see in the next pictures looks pretty good.

It appears that this kind of plastic is absolutely impossible to glue with nearly anything. I've tried over 10 different plastic glues and none of them was able to form a connection that would survive a light twist or pull. But what do you do if you can't glue something? Use the glue gun!
I can't really say that my glue gun glued this plastic well, but at least the case is in one piece and if you don't throw it against a wall, it will survive a regular wear and tear. I have to say that the plastic itself is very thin and flexible, so it's really not a good material for a case, but at least it's very easy to cut.

I glued the two parts together and used other brim of the container to close the case on the side. I also cut a hole for the USB connector.
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40369[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40368[/ATTACH]
As you can see, the glue looks terrible, but that's the interior. Nobody's going to look inside. After gluing I carefully cut the remaining plastic and finished the surface with sandpaper.
Then I used the brim again to make the front finish and the other side and glued everything together with even more hot glue:
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40375[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40366[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40367[/ATTACH]

After some more cutting and sanding, this is the effect just after cleaning everything up:
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40353[/ATTACH]
As far as I remember, the case took me about 2 evenings to finish, mainly because of the lack of a project and having just one plastic container, which I was afraid of destroying. And I also learned one thing. Use protective glasses when cutting plastic with your drill!

Step seven: put the keyboard into the case and finish the work!
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40356[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40355[/ATTACH]
The pcb and controller are mounted with 2 bolts and 2 nuts on the lower side. The upper part of the keyboard is not connected to the case, but since I don't use it in really hard conditions, it seems unnecessary, especially with the USB connector holding it in place.

Before I put the keyboard into the case, I made 2 legs from plastic spacers (and hot-melt adhesive of course) to keep the pcb in an angled position compatible with the case profile:
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40357[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40358[/ATTACH]
In the end I attached two rubber feet from the donor board, so that the keyboard didn't move all over the desk while typing.

Here are the photos of the ended board. I've used it for some time now, and somehow it still works;)
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40359[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40360[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40365[/ATTACH]

The firmware currently supports two layers and full NKRO over USB. I'm still working on it, because it's now used in my Universal Keyboard Controller. If I ever manage to finish it, you can expect it on geekhack;)

This mod would never have happened without the geekhack community. Thanks for your support and help choosing keyboards and for making me aware of the existence of mechanical keyboards at all!

Thanks for reading.
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline o2dazone

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 10:08:21 »
Incredible! Awesome mod!

Offline Findecanor

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 10:25:11 »
Impressive mod! Thanks for sharing.

Offline komar007

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 10:36:41 »
Thanks for comments. Stay tuned, more to come, including the full ukbdc (Universal Keyboard Controller).

Quote from: ripster;513246
See my "huffington post Gallons of Glue thread" in my subforum for hints.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?24783-The-HUFFington-Post-Gallons-of-Glue-MOAR-Keyboard-Science

If you vote for me I'll go over the trick to making those cracks seamless.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?26781-Do-you-think-Ripster-is-the-1-Keyboard-Expert-on-Planet-Earth

Thanks, I'll try to get through the article and maybe next time will have more luck gluing things;)
Voted;) The glue guide is enough on its own.
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline sordna

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 10:57:50 »
Great mod, congrats! The case might be polyethylene, which is hard to glue. The nice thing about hot glue is that even if it doesn't stick, you can make holes between the 2 surfaces and it will create a mechanical connection, sort of like rivets.

Good point about the dremel dust, a couple of keys on my Kinesis Advantage got a bit gritty due to dust after I dremeled the existing case to add more keys but I managed to make them smooth again by spraying compressed air and WD40 without even opening them up.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline lightsout714

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 11:08:39 »
Wow that thing is sweet great job!

Offline keyboardlover

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 11:40:15 »
Very nice work, looks great!

Offline mtl

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 15:29:21 »
Love it!
MX13 SpaceSaver | Phantom | Tactoblack Filco -10 | Realforce 103U-UW | Variable Clicky Deck 82 | Deck Legend

Offline dfxdx

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 06:41:52 »
Great work. Would be fantastic if you could post the info for the keyboard controller. Looking forward to more info.

Offline komar007

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 09:10:38 »
Thanks for all the positive comments;)

@dfxdx, I was originally going to sell the controller as "a really beefy universal controller that does everything", but well, it doesn't do everything I wanted it to do yet;)

There is some progress, though, I have a working prototype:
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 40589[/ATTACH]
But the hardware still needs much work. Currently there are 16 outputs and 19 inputs/outputs and it's not enough to cope with every keyboard matrix out there, and the firmware needs all the nice features like layers and macros and also some more I've invented for this keyboard and found particularly useful.

Anyway, the most likely features of the controller will be:
  • NKRO - obviously;)
  • 35 programmable input/output pins
  • 16MB flash memory to store macros, layouts, and what not
  • support for automatic matrix recognition, diode-less matrices
  • layers, conditional scancodes, macros, and so on
  • possibly open-source firmware, but this depends on whether anyone wants to buy one, considering so many alternatives like teensy
  • easy to use GUI used to program, send layouts, macros and configuration to the device

As for the controller presented in the article, nothing fancy. ATmega32u4 in nearly the same configuration as in teensy 2.0. No flash, or additional output buffers. It runs the firmware I'm developing for the universal controller.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 February 2012, 09:27:56 by komar007 »
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline Parak

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 10:54:23 »
There's a quite a number of shortcomings with the current firmware implementations for teensy that are out there (YMMV). Teensy is also not the most optimal approach if one wants the controller to be integrated into the board, instead of being an addon board, amongst other things. So, I think there's a definite need for a properly engineered controller/firmware implementation :)

Offline komar007

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 11:44:16 »
Well, so it looks like I have stuff to do;)
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline sordna

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 12:05:18 »
Some hints from the Kinesis Advantage controller: programmability from the keyboard itself without software, unlimited remapping of keys across layers, 2 layers (would be cool to add more), configurable piezo click sound, sticky keys, deactivate any keys, instant layout switching (would be cool to allow multiple user-defined layouts stored, instead of the fixed QWERTY/DVORAK), unlimited remapping of keys across layers. It's probably the most feature-rich keyboard controller out there, you can see the keyboard manual for details and ideas
http://kinesis-ergo.com/support/advantage-usb-manual_09-11.pdf

It would be awesome to make an open/universal controller that is same or better! Oh wait, you're already in that thread
Here is the precursor thread to it.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline komar007

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 12:17:42 »
Yes, I am;)
Some of the things you've mentioned I was planning to implement, some not. It seems it will be the best if I take that code to a level that can be published and shown without shame and make a final release of the hardware and then let the community develop the more advanced features. If the community is interested of course.
I'm just curious how many people would buy the hardware if the same code can be run on teensy;). Perhaps those with really big matrices that teensy can't handle.

Oh, and by the way. I was thinking of a smaller version of the board specifically as a feature-full PS/2 -> USB converter with all the remapping and stuff.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 February 2012, 12:21:08 by komar007 »
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline Parak

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 14:15:01 »
Quote from: komar007;515271
I'm just curious how many people would buy the hardware if the same code can be run on teensy;).

I think if you're looking to sell the controller and you're worrying about code compatibility with the teensy, you could:

1. Use a controller that is not readily code compatible with the teensy, like a PIC or something :P
2. Include extra niceties that are not available with a teensy, such as extra memory like you mentioned, io expanders, usb hub, etc.

Or something along those lines.

Offline komar007

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« Reply #15 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 15:07:42 »
Well, I'll first look to complete the project and then we'll see. Even if the people use the code on the teensy, it's good. More users will keep the project going and it'll get better. As it is with all open source projects.
As for PICs... Too late. 1800+ lines of code already written;)
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline dfxdx

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 08:52:15 »
OK, I'm the noob. Can anyone kindly provide some links to sources which will help me decipher some of this stuff? I'm talking for info for total dummies. For instance: scan codes, matrix sizes, the Teensy and why it cannot handle what some people want to do, does it have enough pins etc. I'll be fine with the programming if I could get the definition of the problem, and for want of a better phrases, the conditions of satisfaction or acceptance criteria. Uses a C API right? No sweat. I'm planning to get a board (for this project a Teensy right, or a Minimus 32? , but also interested in the Raspberry PI except powering it inside a keyboard could be tricky...) but just need a nice way into getting a keyboard controller. Embedded programming is a complete mystery at the moment.

Offline sordna

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 11:59:39 »
There's so many boards, Teensy, AIKON, Arduino, now I hear of Minimus 32, ideally we need to find something easily obtainable that doesn't require a lot of hardware expertise/skill to put on a keyboard. The programming can be as "expert" / elaborate as it wants, since software can be shared, hardware cannot, so too-customized hardware will keep a lot of folks out of this.

Hmm, I should probably make this post on the universal controller thread, not here, this is a private project :-)
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline sordna

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 23:44:27 »
Forgot to mention the Chameleon controller, looks awesome (hit the spoiler button for details, even has mouse button/stick support, 4 layers, "knob support" etc)
http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1243
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Parak

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 17 February 2012, 00:21:06 »
Except both chameleon and aikon are quite hard (and expensive) to come by and don't have open source firmware that I know of. I'm not too concerned about complex designs as group buys and/or member assembly services can be leveraged if needed. Ideally the schematics are also desirable to be open source for the purposes of direct integration on keyboard pcb... but beggars can't be choosers :D

As a side note, I wish I took EE in college as I have quite the envy of those that can do such projects with apparent ease. Now I have to learn it in bits and pieces as time allows :/

Offline komar007

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 17 February 2012, 04:52:01 »
Quote from: Parak;516744
As a side note, I wish I took EE in college as I have quite the envy of those that can do such projects with apparent ease. Now I have to learn it in bits and pieces as time allows :/

It's never too late. They're starting an online course in EE in MIT: https://6002x.mitx.mit.edu/. I'm already enrolled, because I don't think I've learned enough so far;).
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline javifast

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 17 February 2012, 06:54:49 »
Amazing work. Congrats.
Too many keyboards....

Offline hazeluff

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 17 February 2012, 07:04:30 »
Quote from: komar007;516862
It's never too late. They're starting an online course in EE in MIT: https://6002x.mitx.mit.edu/. I'm already enrolled, because I don't think I've learned enough so far;).

You may not get too much out of this. There is a lot of analgue related stuff there, that won't be very useful in the application of building (digital) electronics such keyboards.

Quote
resistive elements and networks; independent and dependent sources;  switches and MOS transistors; digital abstraction; amplifiers; energy  storage elements; dynamics of first- and second-order networks; design  in the time and frequency domains; and analog and digital circuits and  applications.

Only thing you need from this is resistive elements and networks.
You may want to know MOSFETs but the rest are very analogue electronics orientated. I suspect the last "digital circuits and applications" might teach something, but as it's the last thing on the list, I don't think they can get very in depth (not that you need much depth).

If there are a bunch of people who want a crash course in Electronics with application to digital circuits (/keyboards), I may write up a wiki. But this stuff is all over the internet, I'd only be extracting the useful stuff and then placing it here and maybe trying to explain some things differently.

The Mod looks amazing btw. As good as a Poker. = D
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Offline sordna

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60% Cherry MX 8100 mod
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 17 February 2012, 10:10:25 »
Quote from: hazeluff;516912
If there are a bunch of people who want a crash course in Electronics with application to digital circuits (/keyboards), I may write up a wiki. But this stuff is all over the internet, I'd only be extracting the useful stuff and then placing it here and maybe trying to explain some things differently.

Please do that wiki !!!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard