Adopt a Keycap Legend with Cherry Replica Font! (Cherry font, not some other font)

[dorkvader]

I'll "adopt" the

Numpad 0
Numpad Enter

If that's okay.

This is all contingent on my liking what we eventually settle on in terms of the font, though.

[litster]

I'll "adopt" the

Numpad 0
Numpad Enter

If that's okay.

This is all contingent on my liking what we eventually settle on in terms of the font, though.

Hum, how would that work?  We are going for a font legend that is as close to Cherry as possible, like what we have done with moogle kits.  Is that not what you like?

[hashbaz]

ripster can you elaborate?  What about those legends is done right that has been wrong for us in the past?  What did they insist on?

[agor]

In which way is this on topic by the way? Doesn't look anything like cherry legends to me.

[mickd]

OR  get THICK doubleshot keys.

Yes please!

[dorkvader]

Hum, how would that work?  We are going for a font legend that is as close to Cherry as possible, like what we have done with moogle kits.  Is that not what you like?

Yep, that'd be great. I'm very easy to please, but if we end up abandoning the cherry font replica in lieu of comic sans or "space toaster" (My favourite font when I was 7)... Well, I can't sign my name to such an atrocity.

I have no problem with paying for SP to have a better font. I'm not a rabid cherry fanboy. Cherry's font is great, but I'd also be okay with one of many other, more modern fonts. But if we decide to go with a not-cherry font that's really ugly, I'm not going for it.

Sorry, I reread my post, and I realized I sounded like one of those really picky people. I'm not.
---

I replaced the top case in someone's Macbook pro TWICE (under warranty) last week because their up arrow key looked a little crooked. It worked just fine, but was a little visually off. That guy measured it when he picked it up. I'm not like that at all.

[hazeluff]

Yep, that'd be great. I'm very easy to please, but if we end up abandoning the cherry font replica in lieu of comic sans or "space toaster" (My favourite font when I was 7)... Well, I can't sign my name to such an atrocity.

I have no problem with paying for SP to have a better font. I'm not a rabid cherry fanboy. Cherry's font is great, but I'd also be okay with one of many other, more modern fonts. But if we decide to go with a not-cherry font that's really ugly, I'm not going for it.

Sorry, I reread my post, and I realized I sounded like one of those really picky people. I'm not.
---

I replaced the top case in someone's Macbook pro TWICE (under warranty) last week because their up arrow key looked a little crooked. It worked just fine, but was a little visually off. That guy measured it when he picked it up. I'm not like that at all.

I mean it'll look like 80% cherry, since we can't do multiple widths. But will be trying to get it as close as possible.

Also who doesn't love comic sans?

[omuerte]

Yes please!

Seriously - this is my #1 gripe with SP keys, they're absolutely wimpy feeling compared to cherry corp or KBC PBT keys. I've been really tempted to spray a layer of epoxy inside the SP keys I already have to give them enough bulk that they don't feel like they'll just break.

[dorkvader]

I mean it'll look like 80% cherry, since we can't do multiple widths. But will be trying to get it as close as possible.

Also who doesn't love comic sans?

I don't hate it as much as some people, but I also wouldn't want that on my keyboard.

[omuerte]

I don't hate it as much as some people, but I also wouldn't want that on my keyboard.

Really? You mean you wouldn't use a teal, pink, purple and yellow 80's themed comic sans keyset?

[litster]

Yep, that'd be great. I'm very easy to please, but if we end up abandoning the cherry font replica in lieu of comic sans or "space toaster" (My favourite font when I was 7)... Well, I can't sign my name to such an atrocity.

I have no problem with paying for SP to have a better font. I'm not a rabid cherry fanboy. Cherry's font is great, but I'd also be okay with one of many other, more modern fonts. But if we decide to go with a not-cherry font that's really ugly, I'm not going for it.

Sorry, I reread my post, and I realized I sounded like one of those really picky people. I'm not.
---

I replaced the top case in someone's Macbook pro TWICE (under warranty) last week because their up arrow key looked a little crooked. It worked just fine, but was a little visually off. That guy measured it when he picked it up. I'm not like that at all.

As long as you donate what you pledge when we collect the adoption fee, that would be fine.  I don't think we will have someone to pay up front for everyone first and let people back out if they decide they don't like it.  We are in this together.

[hashbaz]

Sixty is saying he was quoted $100K type numbers for thick keys.  I remain skeptical.  Maybe Melissa is trying to blow us off?

Oof.

[hazeluff]

As long as you donate what you pledge when we collect the adoption fee, that would be fine.  I don't think we will have someone to pay up front for everyone first and let people back out if they decide they don't like it.  We are in this together.

I found my issue with SP where my legends were too big. Inkscape = 90dpi, Illustrator = 72dpi. I'll starting legends after end of my semester (in 2 weeks). So I've got a template which should spit out SVGs the right size for SP.

Anyone who'd like to help make legends. I'd hate to be a one man army. 104 legends will take some time.

[hashbaz]

I found my issue with SP where my legends were too big. Inkscape = 90dpi, Illustrator = 72dpi. I'll starting legends after end of my semester (in 2 weeks). So I've got a template which should spit out SVGs the right size for SP.

Anyone who'd like to help make legends. I'd hate to be a one man army. 104 legends will take some time.

I'm already working on several for the moogle group buy (Enter, Backspace, Tab, and Backslash/Pipe).  I'll likely be able to take more on when they are finished.

[agor]

Were the pictures helpful?

[mkawa]

The kerning is fine.  The letters are bold and clear versus the wimpy lower case letters you can see in my GLWIC pics.  It doesn't have that weird camelcase backspace that I am staring at right now on my Group Key Buy 3 keys.

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All I'm saying is the default Signature Plastic Font WHEN DONE RIGHT is not that bad, and I'm not sure what's so magical about the Retro Pantograph Monoline Cherry Corp font.  If I was going completely custom I'd pick a more modern font OR  get THICK doubleshot keys.

first of all i think we should all thank ripster for giving us an elaborated post without being a **** about it (seriously). second of all, i have to agree; i don't see what's wrong with the SP font _as long as_ the keys are properly proofed and a set is not run until the legends are exactly right. my feeling was that this could be done while getting our custom legends made, and that is what would make the custom legends worth the money.

that said, i don't think we're going to be able to get melissa to make new keycap molds, period. they have probably been using these molds for 30 years and the MOQ they're going to want for new molds is going to be insane.

i think the way to go is to get a more modern font done. i think most of us don't know enough about typography to be able to suggest fonts, however. so, ideas?

[mkawa]

no i agree it's not that hard. i'm just saying that the only way you're going to convince them to go through the trouble is by giving them more money than we're capable of. we'd be better off coming up with a regular distribution arrangement with vortex/costar/imsto, but as far as we know, those folks don't have a doubleshot molding machine.

[mkawa]

yah that's a disaster. this could work though, and it's probably the way to go. we get a new set of legends made that people agree are nice. then, we do a series of nice tight GBs from here until infinitum. sure, the keys won't be as thick as some people like, but they'll be DS, and as far as i can tell, for every person who wants thicker keys there are like 5 who don't really care.

[Kisakuku]

I think you programmers call it "**** goes in, **** goes out".  We medical professionals call that copremesis.

There you go again confusing FIFO and LIFO. "**** goes in, **** comes out" is just your garden variety coprophagia.

[litster]

the original goal is to get a font that is as close to Cherry's original font as possible.  I think we are still working toward that.  As for kerning, we don't need kerning for single letters and digits, right?  hashbaz and hazeluff have already done shifts and capslock as well as Esc, Control and Alt.  They look pretty good and kern okay to me, but I am not a font fanatic yet.  I would imagine the 2-glyph keys like the function keys should be very simple to kern.  I think the kerning now is done through hazeluff's drawing so it is not as easy for SP to screw them up.  Then it there are only to 9-pack keys and the large Enter key on the numpad.  It shouldn't be much more expensive even if we have to redo a few of those long keys.  

Hashbaz, when you had to redo a key or two last time due to SP's incompetence, did you have to pay extra for the remake?

[hazeluff]

the original goal is to get a font that is as close to Cherry's original font as possible.  I think we are still working toward that.  As for kerning, we don't need kerning for single letters and digits, right?  hashbaz and hazeluff have already done shifts and capslock as well as Esc, Control and Alt.  They look pretty good and kern okay to me, but I am not a font fanatic yet.  I would imagine the 2-glyph keys like the function keys should be very simple to kern.  I think the kerning now is done through hazeluff's drawing so it is not as easy for SP to screw them up.  Then it there are only to 9-pack keys and the large Enter key on the numpad.  It shouldn't be much more expensive even if we have to redo a few of those long keys.  

Hashbaz, when you had to redo a key or two last time due to SP's incompetence, did you have to pay extra for the remake?

Single letters have no kerning so it's all good. I've sorted the "workable area" problem I've had with my SVGs. Basically me and hashbaz have a template which is just the workable area of a legend, everything should come out aligned correctly.

As for kerning, that is controlled by us and not them. So If anything goes wrong blame us.

Work on it will commence soon.

There you go again confusing FIFO and LIFO. "**** goes in, **** comes out" is just your garden variety coprophagia.

The engineer in me Loled = )
[/FONT]

[litster]

Work on it will commence soon.

I luff you!

[hazeluff]

I luff you!

<3

I do have some coursework to be done at uni. But hopefully I can get it out of my way fast. Or at least do that like during the day and come back and do the Cherry Legends.

[litster]

We still need someone to collect the adoption fees from legend parents.  Anyone?  I think anyone who has done successful group buys here are good enough for me.  It doesn't need to be iMav.

edit: oh, and someone who has dealt with SP and Melissa :-)

[Kisakuku]

What do programmers call it then?  2 girl 1 cup?

Stay on topic.

[Kisakuku]

No really, I'm curious.  

GIGO I thought was it?

And is this Group Buy going to be FINO like the Group Key Buy Four?

FINO is clearly HD.

[hashbaz]

"Garbage in, garbage out" is the common phrase in programming.

I am working on the moogle3 legends now (Enter, Backspace, Tab, Backslash/Pipe, and Caps Lock (stepped and flat)).  Progress has been slow so far, but I think I've learned enough about SVGs and Inkscape now that it should be smooth sailing from here on out.  I'll be doing a prototype Enter key to proof my work as soon as that SVG is ready.

Esc, Ctrl, Alt, and the Shifts are already done from my RGBY buy, and I think SP's regular Menu and Win keys look fine as-is.  When I'm done with moogle3 I'll continue to assist hazel with the rest of the legends.  He and I have synced up and he edumacated me on the Inkscape/Illustrator DPI issue, so any kerning/alignment issues are on us.

If no one else can do the money collection my account is available.  I accepted payments for the RGBY buy with no grumblings from Paypal so I think that shouldn't be an issue.  Melissa also knows me well by now from my many pesterings.

[hashbaz]

Were the pictures helpful?

Yes, extremely!  Thanks again.

[lightsout714]

"Garbage in, garbage out" is the common phrase in programming.

I am working on the moogle3 legends now (Enter, Backspace, Tab, Backslash/Pipe, and Caps Lock (stepped and flat)).  Progress has been slow so far, but I think I've learned enough about SVGs and Inkscape now that it should be smooth sailing from here on out.  I'll be doing a prototype Enter key to proof my work as soon as that SVG is ready.

Esc, Ctrl, Alt, and the Shifts are already done from my RGBY buy, and I think SP's regular Menu and Win keys look fine as-is.  When I'm done with moogle3 I'll continue to assist hazel with the rest of the legends.  He and I have synced up and he edumacated me on the Inkscape/Illustrator DPI issue, so any kerning/alignment issues are on us.

If no one else can do the money collection my account is available.  I accepted payments for the RGBY buy with no grumblings from Paypal so I think that shouldn't be an issue.  Melissa also knows me well by now from my many pesterings.

I think you would be a great person to orchestrate this thing!

[hashbaz]

Hashbaz, when you had to redo a key or two last time due to SP's incompetence, did you have to pay extra for the remake?

Nope, Melissa ran and shipped them for no extra charge.  She was even willing to redo the diamond keys simply because I wasn't happy with them, even though it was the same mold they had used before.  I decided it wasn't fair to ask her to redo the diamonds since it wasn't really a screw-up on their part, but she would have if I had pressed the issue.

I think you would be a great person to orchestrate this thing!

:yo:

[agor]

I'd raise my voice for hashbaz too if he has the time.
Great person to deal with :yo:

[dorkvader]

Yeah, Hashbaz is good. I trust him.

there are some others that would be suitable candidates, too.

While I'm okay with the SP font, I do think the cherry font is a little better. Also, I'm glad to contribute to getting a new/bettor font made, as I'm sure it'll be used for a while by us, here. I wonder if SP can get this GH font added to their repertoire, maybe we'll start seeing it on access-is boards soon

[omuerte]

Yeah, Hashbaz is good. I trust him.

there are some others that would be suitable candidates, too.

While I'm okay with the SP font, I do think the cherry font is a little better. Also, I'm glad to contribute to getting a new/bettor font made, as I'm sure it'll be used for a while by us, here. I wonder if SP can get this GH font added to their repertoire, maybe we'll start seeing it on access-is boards soon

I doubt that, unless the copyright owners for each SVG signed over their rights to SP for free (which would be insane, mind you) you'd run into IP ownership issues if SP tried to use someone else's work without permission.

[litster]

Hashbaz for president!

[Hzza]

Hashbaz for president!

I called that weeks ago! The guys a dude.

[ReAzem]

I also vote for hashbaz.
:yo:

[dorkvader]

I doubt that, unless the copyright owners for each SVG signed over their rights to SP for free (which would be insane, mind you) you'd run into IP ownership issues if SP tried to use someone else's work without permission.

Why don't we make our cherry lookalike font open source/public domain? I mean, the more keyboards that use it, the better.

[litster]

I called that weeks ago! The guys a dude.

And I always thought hashbaz was a hot lady.  That goes my dreams...

[hazeluff]

Why don't we make our cherry lookalike font open source/public domain? I mean, the more keyboards that use it, the better.

I disagree.

I'd like to be open to anyone on geekhack, but not anyone. = / I don't like the fact Geekhackers fork out money so the others can use it. = / I don't see the benefits of making it public.

[litster]

I think we should keep it within the GH community.  But if people like OTD or kbdmania folks ask to use it, I think we would let them use it.  Just not totally open source so any joe blow could use it to make keys and try to profit from our effort.

[hazeluff]

I think we should keep it within the GH community.  But if people like OTD or kbdmania folks ask to use it, I think we would let them use it.  Just not totally open source so any joe blow could use it to make keys and try to profit from our effort.

Yes, this is my thoughts exactly. But I would like OTD/kbdmania to acknowledge our input.

IIRC some post before said they wouldn't let us use their font or something. That just makes me want to spite them and not let them use it. But if I'm wrong, I'm open to sharing in this fashion. Open source to this community and brother/sister ones, but not to random people.

[litster]

I got an idea - lets ask them to let us use their Signature Plastic fonts first!

Oh wait.  I said that already.

- Asking them to let us use their SP font is orthogonal to us wanting to make our Cherry replica font.
- tsangan already said he asked and they said no.
- if we make our font and other people like it, we could make trades.

Yes, you guys made me use the word "orthogonal" again!

[ReAzem]

I disagree.

I'd like to be open to anyone on geekhack, but not anyone. = / I don't like the fact Geekhackers fork out money so the others can use it. = / I don't see the benefits of making it public.

Even tho I won't be the guy working on the SVGs, I am still injecting money into this and I would vote for public domain.
I never believed in copyrights and such things.

Benifits: People get to save 5K when they want a similar font.

I understand that working on a font that will be private and exclusive is rewarding in another way tho.

[hazeluff]

Even tho I won't be the guy working on the SVGs, I am still injecting money into this and I would vote for public domain.
I never believed in copyrights and such things.

Benifits: People get to save 5K when they want a similar font.

I understand that working on a font that will be private and exclusive is rewarding in another way tho.

At the very least for me, people need to ask us for permission and acknowledge it.

I'd like to keep it as private as possible. I'm very objected to someone else making money off of something we made and made open source.

I'm not ok with random guy going to SP and going:
"I know these keys were made from you, what font is this" and then because we open source it, SP makes it for them. Especially if its for profits.

I'm ok with other keyboard enthusiast (and maybe even random people) coming to us asking for permission and we go ok, as long as it's some kind of Group Buy/personal reasons.

I'd be more happy if some keyboard enthusiast came to us, asked for permission and we say "ok". And then they go "The nice people at geekhack.org let me use their wonderful font". And obviously they don't do it for profit.



I'm objected at a personal level as well for open source and I think its very much like the following situation:

If you bought a car, would you let a stranger drive it around. Because it would save that person the price of getting a car?

I am selfish, I wouldn't. Hence why I feel strongly about the use of the font.

[litster]

I am with hazeluff.  Who's with me?

[demik]

im with hazeluff.

open for the community.

anybody outside from the community has to ask for permission.

[litster]

I am with demik.  Who's with me?

[tsangan]

I am with litster.

I don't see a point in drawing a line between communities, we should try to unite them

[KylJoy]

I'm with tsangan with litster with demik with hazeluff.  Who's with me?

[hazeluff]

I'm with tsangan with litster with demik with hazeluff.  Who's with me?

I am with hazeluff too!

Just to put this out:

I was against open-source in the literal sense; That it was open to anybody.

I'd like to see it closed-source. i.e open to community, but we'd be quite open to most people.