Author Topic: [IC] Proper ErgoDox case (Read 40017 times)

czarek · « **on:** Thu, 22 August 2013, 11:19:33 »

Hi guys, I contacted local 3D printing house and they offered me 350 Euros for printing left and right top and bottom cases for Ergodox from the files available on ergodox.org.
I'm slightly shocked with the price of that to be honest..
I think I will design a simple CNC aluminium 2 piece case based on layered acrylic case. I do have quite a lot of experience with aluminium machining (I'm making parts for R/C models out of aluminium and carbon plates) and have the machines and tools to work with it and to be honest it would be much cheaper than 3D printing - I could source material for one case (left + right) and cut it for about 100 Euros + maybe 5-10 Euros for anodizing to any color.
What do you think? I'm not impressed with DIY looks of MassDrop acrylic case and would really like something better than that, but wouldn't like it to cost a leg...

WhiteFireDragon · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 22 August 2013, 11:21:54 »

Based on what you said, I'm assuming you own or have access to free CNC machines? Otherwise, aluminum CNC from a local company won't be cheap either.

czarek · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu, 22 August 2013, 11:36:56 »

That's right, I've got CNC mill (suitable for all materials up to steel, 50x30x5 cm working area) and lathe (wood, wax and rather soft materials, radius up to 10 cm, material length up to 150 cm), as well as CO2 laser (plastics and wood, 20x20x5 cm working area) and I'm planning on getting some decent 3D printer by the end of the year as the more I look at the 3D printing prices the more I think it will pay off soon

As for software I'm using rather hobbyist packages: ArtCam for organic stuff (engravings, reliefs) and CamBam for technical stuff (R/C parts mostly so far).

thadood · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu, 22 August 2013, 16:15:41 »

I may be interested - a metal case would be quite sweet looking, but wasn't available during the GB I got in on. Plus I heard the company Massdrop sourced had some quality issues with the metal case.

___q · « **Reply #4 on:** Thu, 22 August 2013, 16:23:20 »

Interested, assuming the design and finish are nice etc.

(Would also be more interested in a "full-hand" design than the standard small case)

hoggy · « **Reply #5 on:** Thu, 22 August 2013, 16:41:48 »

Interested to see what you come up with.

Tarzan · « **Reply #6 on:** Thu, 22 August 2013, 18:54:36 »

Full-hand stainless steel ErgoDox case? Yes, please!

tp4tissue · « **Reply #7 on:** Thu, 22 August 2013, 22:33:50 »

Quote from: Greystoke on Thu, 22 August 2013, 18:54:36

Full-hand stainless steel ErgoDox case? Yes, please!

Cnc stainless? prepare for $10000

czarek · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri, 23 August 2013, 07:47:46 »

Well I don't have interest in full hand case for now, but I prepared project for the 2 piece case (could be milled from one piece really but there is a lot of error margin and place for mess-up): http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47420.0
I'm going to cut it on Saturday, for now from spruce wood but when my ergodox (round 4 massdrop) arrives I'm going to to do it out of Aluminium and get it powder painted or anodised in italian red (Alfa Rosso).

Tarzan · « **Reply #9 on:** Fri, 23 August 2013, 08:15:18 »

Quote from: czarek on Fri, 23 August 2013, 07:47:46

Well I don't have interest in full hand case for now, but I prepared project for the 2 piece case (could be milled from one piece really but there is a lot of error margin and place for mess-up): http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47420.0
I'm going to cut it on Saturday, for now from spruce wood but when my ergodox (round 4 massdrop) arrives I'm going to to do it out of Aluminium and get it powder painted or anodised in italian red (Alfa Rosso).

The only TRUE Italian red is Ferrari Red (Rosso Rubino)!

More on-topic; I actually thought you could use the CNC mill in lieu of a laser cutter, so the output would be the same number of layers, just in steel or aluminum instead of acrylic. If you're considering a fully milled case, or even a three part (lower case/plate/upper case) I can see that would be quite a bit more complex.

Very interested in metal case options, even something in mild steel that could be powder-coated. Looking forward to seeing your experiments!

kurplop · « **Reply #10 on:** Fri, 23 August 2013, 08:48:23 »

How will you mill square cutouts for the switches? I will be doing the same soon and am curious about the most efficient way to do so without having a small fillet left in the corners. I was considering overshooting the corners slightly on the last pass with a <1/8" end mill or hand filing to square. Is there a better way?

Photekq · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri, 23 August 2013, 08:57:56 »

Quote from: kurplop on Fri, 23 August 2013, 08:48:23

How will you mill square cutouts for the switches? I will be doing the same soon and am curious about the most efficient way to do so without having a small fillet left in the corners. I was considering overshooting the corners slightly on the last pass with a <1/8" end mill or hand filing to square. Is there a better way?

If you're unable to do 0.012in or lower radii for the coners (cherry spec), then do something like this I guess :

czarek · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri, 23 August 2013, 08:59:30 »

Quote from: kurplop on Fri, 23 August 2013, 08:48:23

How will you mill square cutouts for the switches? I will be doing the same soon and am curious about the most efficient way to do so without having a small fillet left in the corners. I was considering overshooting the corners slightly on the last pass with a <1/8" end mill or hand filing to square. Is there a better way?

I use small bit (1mm diameter) and a feature called over cut. Here's screenshot from CamBam documentation explaining it:

kurplop · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 23 August 2013, 10:04:24 »

Thanks guys for the response. Do you have much of a problem with tool breakage with that small of a bit in aluminum and how thick will the plate be?

czarek · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 23 August 2013, 14:10:46 »

Thickness is not a problem in CNC machining. If something is to thick to cut it in one go, you take more steps, that's all. In this design plate is 2mm thick, this should be no problem to cut it in one go with the end bits I have (3 flute, solid carbide). BTW whole case is going to be cut with 3mm bit (to save time) and 1mm bit is only going to be used to cut off holes for switches.

kurplop · « **Reply #15 on:** Fri, 23 August 2013, 16:21:55 »

When I recently decided to get a mill, I decided against a CNC because I wanted to use one manually first and I thought it would be an easier transition from my other manual fabrication disciplines. No regrets, but thinking about cutting 78 square holes makes me realize what a timesaver learning to use CAD-CAM will be some day. Thanks for the insights.

Reflection-
Back around 1980 when I still had a real job,I was hired to build a large wall unit. I got a great deal on 500bd. ft. of 4/4 rough birch. Armed with a smoothing plane and scrapers I thicknessed and surfaced about 300 feet of it and turned it into a nice bookcase. I think it took about 3 weeks of evenings after work to accomplish it. Shortly thereafter I bought a thickness planer. Now every time I use a planer I am grateful for it.

czarek · « **Reply #16 on:** Sat, 24 August 2013, 02:34:08 »

I'd rather go straight into CNC or get a manual mill and convert it to CNC (that's what I did with my first mill). You can still control it manually, or semi automatically if you want.
And when we're talking about the cutouts for switches in a plate, the holes are not square - they're more like that:

This makes it really painful to cut with manual mill, especially when you want to make sure corners are over cut...

kurplop · « **Reply #17 on:** Sat, 24 August 2013, 06:24:34 »

Well, I just learned something new. I didn't know that you could override the stepper motors.

daerid · « **Reply #18 on:** Sat, 24 August 2013, 12:24:22 »

If this turns out well I'm definitely interested.

czarek · « **Reply #19 on:** Mon, 26 August 2013, 14:41:56 »

Ahhh little update on my project. It didn't turn out well so far. I measured material thickness wrong and pocket turned out to be through holes… I'm going to get new wood and try again.

czarek · « **Reply #20 on:** Thu, 29 August 2013, 14:29:30 »

Another update… I tried again with proper thickness of wood (10mm bottom and 8mm top) but it seems spruce is just not strong enough and breaks too easily, especially on a plate

I will try with PVC next week. It should be nice and cheap alternative to Aluminium, whole board 2000x600x10mm costs around 100 Euros and that should last for quite a few cases. It's also easier to machine so we can save time machining. So far it takes me about 30 minutes per piece (there are 4 in total: bottom left, top left, bottom right and top right) and each is machined from 200x230x10mm piece of wood.

agodinhost · « **Reply #21 on:** Fri, 30 August 2013, 08:49:19 »

interested
+1

wiredPANDA · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 30 August 2013, 13:07:54 »

Interested to see how this turns out. I only got acrylic from MD on round 1, but I'm less than impressed on the case. Seems like both cases I received are really misaligned and will take some manual work to get the edges flush.

TheSoulhunter · « **Reply #23 on:** Sat, 31 August 2013, 11:48:22 »

Interested!

kurplop · « **Reply #24 on:** Sat, 31 August 2013, 11:57:03 »

Quote from: czarek on Thu, 29 August 2013, 14:29:30

Another update… I tried again with proper thickness of wood (10mm bottom and 8mm top) but it seems spruce is just not strong enough and breaks too easily, especially on a plate
I will try with PVC next week. It should be nice and cheap alternative to Aluminium, whole board 2000x600x10mm costs around 100 Euros and that should last for quite a few cases. It's also easier to machine so we can save time machining. So far it takes me about 30 minutes per piece (there are 4 in total: bottom left, top left, bottom right and top right) and each is machined from 200x230x10mm piece of wood.

Hard maple and steamed beech are two common woods that would likely hold up well to fine scale milling.

Somebody tried using red oak and while it was strong enough, the open grain didn't lend itself to fine details.

czarek · « **Reply #25 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 13:56:21 »

I finally cut it from PVC. It's 2 plates, each 8mm thick. Top plate is just a masking for switches and cover for electronics. Bottom plate is a plate + cover for PCB. This should be covered with one more plate from the bottom. Also I used slightly too long bolts to join the pieces together and you can clearly see the bumps on a top piece as a result

For the next try I'm going to use 20mm thick PVC plate and cut it 2 side from one piece. Kind of like a unibody macbook. I think this would work well with aluminium too, although 20mm thick plates are rare and quite expensive, especially for prototyping.

phetto · « **Reply #26 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 14:03:05 »

Looks very nice!

czarek · « **Reply #27 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 14:06:34 »

I'll make better pics tomorrow next to white MacBook and the iPad. This PVC looks just like Apple hardware.

Photekq · « **Reply #28 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 14:39:14 »

Nice! Btw, what are those domes on the top surface along the edges?

czarek · « **Reply #29 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 15:03:58 »

Quote from: Photekq on Sun, 15 September 2013, 14:39:14

Nice! Btw, what are those domes on the top surface along the edges?

They're from the too long bolts I used to screw the pieces together.

kurplop · « **Reply #30 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 16:55:43 »

It looks great. How thick did you make the plate and is the PVC stiff enough for the plate?

MOZ · « **Reply #31 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 17:22:59 »

Nice, looking forward to the next try.

lcs · « **Reply #32 on:** Sun, 15 September 2013, 17:27:19 »

Looks awesome!

BliTzKiN · « **Reply #33 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 00:59:58 »

That looks really clean, cant wait to see the next proto.

czarek · « **Reply #34 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 02:35:57 »

Quote from: kurplop on Sun, 15 September 2013, 16:55:43

It looks great. How thick did you make the plate and is the PVC stiff enough for the plate?

It's a hard PVC and it's really stiff material, it is resistant to chemicals and UV light and relatively easy to machine. Early IBM Model M cases were made from it too (although those were injection moulded, not machined).
The plate for switches is now 3mm thick. I don't know if it's not too thick but by looking at other case designs it's just about right. It feels very sturdy, because it's integral part of the rest of the bottom case, similar to HHKB.
I really want to try to do the whole thing out of single piece of material, like Apple's Unibody. I've got some thick wood and I'm currently waiting for a longer bits for my machine (to finish cut the edges), if the wood mockup turns out well, I'll give it a try with aluminium (one block of 20x300x300 costs around 30€ so it's not a cheap material for mockups).

Here are the better camera pics, but the light conditions are still crap. I don't want to use the flash as it will ruin the pics.

BTW. Here's a nice description of a hard PVC as a material:
http://www.ehow.com/info_8664407_differences-between-hard-soft-pvc.html

Tarzan · « **Reply #35 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 07:23:24 »

That's a good-looking case! I like the smooth, seamless appearance, very sleek!

Just a random thought; if this is PVC, can you get different colors? Or is white the only option? I think a black case with few/zero visible seams would look positively futuristic.

czarek · « **Reply #36 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 09:04:53 »

As for colors, there are more colors available for foamed PVC. Hard PVC tends to come in white (RAL 9010), semi-translucent and grey (RAL 7011, similar color to water pipes in most homes). The problem is I'm looking for plates that are 18-20mm thick but the thickest I can find are 10mm and even those are not in stock in most places...
I think it shouldn't be a big deal painting or laminating it either.

BliTzKiN · « **Reply #37 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 10:19:00 »

I honestly din't expect them to be as white as they are in your pictures. Any chance you might be creating a full hand version of the case if the protos for this one goes well? Those look so good I already want one now

czarek · « **Reply #38 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 10:43:57 »

The thing is I'm not sure how ergodox fits in this case as I'm still waiting for my one to arrive. I'm a little worried about the top part not being able to fit the switches and the PCB. I have ordered 10mm thick sheets (pack of 4 which is 8 square meters of 10mm thick PVC to play around) but I have no idea when will they arrive. I'm looking for a company that sells aluminium cheap. My current supplier charges 35€ for a block which is 250x250x20 mm, that's what is required for one side of the case, so the total for the aluminium case would be 70€ just for the material.
I also found a company that does a powder painting services very cheap, even by Polish standards.

Larken · « **Reply #39 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 10:53:48 »

wow, this looks great.

just a note, if you have a couple of spare switches and stabilisers lying around, you might want to try how it fits. The plate thickness aside (costar stabs are spec for 1.5mm) but it looks like the current cutouts wouldn't allow the stabs to be used properly even if you cut the stabs down and super glue them in. (the original layer from the acrylic ergodox case was drawn with errors). Since you're making a new case and might be doing further prototyping, you might want to test that out before going further.

yicaoyimu · « **Reply #40 on:** Mon, 16 September 2013, 15:30:36 »

Looks way better than acrylic! Very interested.

AKmalamute · « **Reply #41 on:** Tue, 17 September 2013, 01:10:09 »

I could be interested, but it would depend on details ... like how my bank account feels after all the other fun stuff I've bought recently!

Also, I'm in the states, so I don't know how badly that would confuzzle the situation if I were to try to get in on such a group buy.

Once your boards come in let us know how they fit together

mashby · « **Reply #42 on:** Tue, 17 September 2013, 09:14:46 »

With MKB selling the white ErgoDox PCBs, this would make for a nice match. Really nice work.

czarek · « **Reply #43 on:** Tue, 17 September 2013, 11:45:29 »

Ok so I got myself a vintage MX Black board from which I scavenged the switches. Here's how they fit in my case. Apparently the height of the bottom part is OK! Here's how it looks:

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #44 on:** Tue, 17 September 2013, 14:03:09 »

Can't wait to see it decked out with keys! It's gonna look sick.

czarek · « **Reply #45 on:** Tue, 17 September 2013, 14:47:07 »

I'm working on a unibody design. Since it won't need any screws it will be slightly slimmer, it also means less material needed. It seems like whole keyboard (left + right) can be cut from 2 blocks of aluminium 230x200x18mm. I have made a query to my provider checking if they can cut such blocks and how much would they cost. I already confirmed I can get them powder painted for peanuts. It seems like the whole cost of unibody aluminium case will close down in about 100 - 120 euros.
If anyone is interested in drawings for this 2 piece case and the 1 piece (unibody) I' currently working on, here they are:
https://github.com/cezaryfalba/ErgoDox-CNC-Case

daerid · « **Reply #46 on:** Tue, 17 September 2013, 17:24:42 »

A Unibody? How would that work? Would there be a separate plate and cover for the connectors/electronics? I'm having trouble visualizing it.

czarek · « **Reply #47 on:** Wed, 18 September 2013, 01:41:55 »

Nope. Top, plate and bottom will be machined out of one piece of material with cutouts for the connectors. Same as this:
http://images.apple.com/macbook-air/images/design_unibody1.jpg

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #48 on:** Wed, 18 September 2013, 04:25:44 »

Quote from: czarek on Wed, 18 September 2013, 01:41:55

Nope. Top, plate and bottom will be machined out of one piece of material with cutouts for the connectors. Same as this:
http://images.apple.com/macbook-air/images/design_unibody1.jpg

I don't understand how you'd get the PCB in there if the bottom plate (covering the bottom of the PCB) and the top plate (holding the switches in place) are inherently connected.

Unless the bottom will be open? The PCB exposed?

czarek · « **Reply #49 on:** Wed, 18 September 2013, 04:35:59 »

No no, just like with macbooks or mac mini, bottom cover is a separate part. For the aluminium model it will have to be some plastic to prevent shorts on a PCB.

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #50 on:** Wed, 18 September 2013, 04:37:19 »

Quote from: czarek on Wed, 18 September 2013, 04:35:59

No no, just like with macbooks or mac mini, bottom cover is a separate part. For the aluminium model it will have to be some plastic to prevent shorts on a PCB.

Okay. That answers my question.

daerid · « **Reply #51 on:** Wed, 18 September 2013, 19:42:28 »

Quote from: czarek on Wed, 18 September 2013, 04:35:59

No no, just like with macbooks or mac mini, bottom cover is a separate part. For the aluminium model it will have to be some plastic to prevent shorts on a PCB.

Aaaaahhhhhh. That's slick as hell. Sign me up for one.

czarek · « **Reply #52 on:** Thu, 19 September 2013, 04:48:51 »

I'm organising aluminium blocks now to make a final prototype. I was trying with pine wood yesterday but it didn't work, it's just not a good material for an ergodox. I ended up breaking the wood and my last 3mm end bit, so I have to wait for new bits to arrive before making any progress on this.
Do you know a reliable and cheap factory where we could organise a group buy for those if the prototype turns out well? I mean I could work on few cases myself but I won't be able to make 100 or so in a short time...

lcs · « **Reply #53 on:** Thu, 19 September 2013, 07:47:34 »

Quote from: czarek on Thu, 19 September 2013, 04:48:51

I'm organising aluminium blocks now to make a final prototype. I was trying with pine wood yesterday but it didn't work, it's just not a good material for an ergodox. I ended up breaking the wood and my last 3mm end bit, so I have to wait for new bits to arrive before making any progress on this.
Do you know a reliable and cheap factory where we could organise a group buy for those if the prototype turns out well? I mean I could work on few cases myself but I won't be able to make 100 or so in a short time...

As long as you make mine it's ok

czarek · « **Reply #54 on:** Thu, 19 September 2013, 07:54:52 »

Well I have no problem making 2-3 cases a week once I get the designs and toolpaths finally right, the problem may appear when I have to do 20-30 cases and some people will have to wait for weeks.
But on the other hand, everyone always waits for ergodoxes. I'm waiting for mine for over month. First I waited for massdrop to end the drop, now I'm waiting for it to arrive, and will most likely have to wait another month or so

lcs · « **Reply #55 on:** Thu, 19 September 2013, 07:55:42 »

That's a good question. How long will take for them to arrive? I also got on this recent drop. Do they tell us they shipped?

czarek · « **Reply #56 on:** Thu, 19 September 2013, 09:09:52 »

I think they will eventually, but they said it will take 6-8 weeks from the end of massdrop so I expect it to arrive in second half of October and will be positively surprised if it happens sooner.
Also if my end bits arrive tomorrow, I'm going to make a mockup of unibody case out of thick plastic. Not really sure what it is, it used to be a boat step. It's ugly greyish semi transparent piece of plastic but it's 18mm thick and should do it for a mockup

czarek · « **Reply #57 on:** Fri, 20 September 2013, 15:27:02 »

I desoldered the rest of the switches and populated it with Cherry double shots. Feels really good, can't wait for the real thing!

lcs · « **Reply #58 on:** Fri, 20 September 2013, 16:53:40 »

Quote from: czarek on Fri, 20 September 2013, 15:27:02

I desoldered the rest of the switches and populated it with Cherry double shots. Feels really good, can't wait for the real thing!

(Attachment Link)

Looks really good indeed!

czarek · « **Reply #59 on:** Sun, 22 September 2013, 04:14:25 »

I've cut the unibody version yesterday - have a look how it came out. This material is not as nice as the PVC but that's the only thing with this thickness I had.

MOZ · « **Reply #60 on:** Sun, 22 September 2013, 04:40:03 »

Nice, I wonder what aluminum would look like in this? I know! Awesome!

Tarzan · « **Reply #61 on:** Sun, 22 September 2013, 18:07:53 »

That unibody case is very cool! I like the textured top surface, makes it look like an industrial machine controller, goes well with the keycaps you used.

I need to get you a block of black Delrin or something similar, commission an ultra-durable ergonomic commuter keyboard. Hey, maybe you could make keyboard covers of the same material, snap fit so they protect the switches? Just speculating, that material you used for the last prototype just looks rugged!

czarek · « **Reply #62 on:** Mon, 23 September 2013, 02:57:17 »

I have a good news for those who like the PVC. I found 20mm sheets, although not in stock, I ordered them and should be getting them in next week or two.
The good thing is, it's almost half the price of the aluminium, and the total cost for the case would close in 80 Euros. That is for the unibody version, cut out of white thick PVC. I'm definitely getting this case I'm going to get for myself!

mashby · « **Reply #63 on:** Mon, 23 September 2013, 08:52:32 »

Quote from: czarek on Mon, 23 September 2013, 02:57:17

I have a good news for those who like the PVC. I found 20mm sheets, although not in stock, I ordered them and should be getting them in next week or two.
The good thing is, it's almost half the price of the aluminium, and the total cost for the case would close in 80 Euros. That is for the unibody version, cut out of white thick PVC. I'm definitely getting this case I'm going to get for myself!

I would be interested in this case as well, so if you're starting a list, please put me on it!

Tarzan · « **Reply #64 on:** Mon, 23 September 2013, 08:55:14 »

Quote from: mashby on Mon, 23 September 2013, 08:52:32

Quote from: czarek on Mon, 23 September 2013, 02:57:17
I have a good news for those who like the PVC. I found 20mm sheets, although not in stock, I ordered them and should be getting them in next week or two.
The good thing is, it's almost half the price of the aluminium, and the total cost for the case would close in 80 Euros. That is for the unibody version, cut out of white thick PVC. I'm definitely getting this case I'm going to get for myself!

I would be interested in this case as well, so if you're starting a list, please put me on it!

And me as well! I've got ErgoDox PCBs sitting on my desk at home, this case would work perfectly!

daerid · « **Reply #65 on:** Fri, 27 September 2013, 00:38:45 »

That looks really nice. Great job

czarek · « **Reply #66 on:** Fri, 04 October 2013, 04:21:46 »

Check out what I just received:

Those aluminium bars will become ErgoDox cases tomorrow if I don't break anything.

CalmB4tehPwn · « **Reply #67 on:** Fri, 04 October 2013, 04:37:23 »

Those will be very pretty.

Glod · « **Reply #68 on:** Sat, 05 October 2013, 01:31:12 »

i didn't not read into this thread since before you got the uni body out, i didn't like the original design because of the little bumps on the top. it looks good now.

But ill skip this, I just spent money getting opaque matte surface replacement acrylic layers made for my ergodoxes. the acrylic "layered" cases have grown on me and if done right they look good with opaque acrylic layers instead of clear.

daerid · « **Reply #69 on:** Sat, 05 October 2013, 02:08:09 »

Gold : where'd you get those? I'm officially over the clear acrylic, gets way too dirty.

MOZ · « **Reply #70 on:** Sat, 05 October 2013, 02:31:39 »

Quote from: daerid on Sat, 05 October 2013, 02:08:09

Gold : where'd you get those? I'm officially over the clear acrylic, gets way too dirty.

PM moi.

seferphier · « **Reply #71 on:** Tue, 08 October 2013, 06:26:11 »

My god! I thought I was done with spending money on mechanical keyboards after getting my ergodox.

I am interested pending prices.

gnusosa · « **Reply #72 on:** Sun, 13 October 2013, 01:23:27 »

Sorry I'm late for the party... But I'm very interested in these.
There are other threats talking about bringing the mass drop kits without the case.

effnish · « **Reply #73 on:** Sun, 13 October 2013, 10:51:59 »

Count me in for one if shipping to the states isn't too much hassle and cost. I have all the parts for two Ergodox keyboards except for the cases and these look like a great alternative to the acrylic cases.

czarek · « **Reply #74 on:** Sun, 13 October 2013, 14:19:20 »

Just a quick update. I was away for a week, working with colleagues in London office. After coming back home I headed straight to the shop to work on aluminium cases. I must sadly admit with my current tools I won't be able to get decent results. I messed up the first cut badly and it seems it will be extremely hard to get even a prototype right. My mill was doing fine with thinner aluminium cutting but machining deep in this 20mm thick boxes pushes it beyond the limit...
So for now I'll be doing the 2 piece PVC cases, should be able to cut couple every week. Then they will go to classifieds on this forum for an auction. Starting price for the set will be 60 Euros (to cover material and my time doing the machining and everything above will be sent to charity to support children in Uganda, using Bram Moolenaar's charity (http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/uganda.html#license).
As for the aluminium case, for now I'll be looking to find some cheap and decent 3rd party to cut them. I already found a company that will anodise them.

lcs · « **Reply #75 on:** Sun, 13 October 2013, 22:22:42 »

Quote from: czarek on Sun, 13 October 2013, 14:19:20

Just a quick update. I was away for a week, working with colleagues in London office. After coming back home I headed straight to the shop to work on aluminium cases. I must sadly admit with my current tools I won't be able to get decent results. I messed up the first cut badly and it seems it will be extremely hard to get even a prototype right. My mill was doing fine with thinner aluminium cutting but machining deep in this 20mm thick boxes pushes it beyond the limit...
So for now I'll be doing the 2 piece PVC cases, should be able to cut couple every week. Then they will go to classifieds on this forum for an auction. Starting price for the set will be 60 Euros (to cover material and my time doing the machining and everything above will be sent to charity to support children in Uganda, using Bram Moolenaar's charity (http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/uganda.html#license).
As for the aluminium case, for now I'll be looking to find some cheap and decent 3rd party to cut them. I already found a company that will anodise them.

That's a shame

Nice going on the charity! But sadly too expensive for me

czarek · « **Reply #76 on:** Mon, 14 October 2013, 01:33:46 »

Quote from: lcs on Sun, 13 October 2013, 22:22:42

Quote from: czarek on Sun, 13 October 2013, 14:19:20
Just a quick update. I was away for a week, working with colleagues in London office. After coming back home I headed straight to the shop to work on aluminium cases. I must sadly admit with my current tools I won't be able to get decent results. I messed up the first cut badly and it seems it will be extremely hard to get even a prototype right. My mill was doing fine with thinner aluminium cutting but machining deep in this 20mm thick boxes pushes it beyond the limit...
So for now I'll be doing the 2 piece PVC cases, should be able to cut couple every week. Then they will go to classifieds on this forum for an auction. Starting price for the set will be 60 Euros (to cover material and my time doing the machining and everything above will be sent to charity to support children in Uganda, using Bram Moolenaar's charity (http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/uganda.html#license).
As for the aluminium case, for now I'll be looking to find some cheap and decent 3rd party to cut them. I already found a company that will anodise them.

That's a shame

Nice going on the charity! But sadly too expensive for me

You recon? What would be a good price then?

lcs · « **Reply #77 on:** Mon, 14 October 2013, 09:54:29 »

Quote from: czarek on Mon, 14 October 2013, 01:33:46

Quote from: lcs on Sun, 13 October 2013, 22:22:42
Quote from: czarek on Sun, 13 October 2013, 14:19:20
Just a quick update. I was away for a week, working with colleagues in London office. After coming back home I headed straight to the shop to work on aluminium cases. I must sadly admit with my current tools I won't be able to get decent results. I messed up the first cut badly and it seems it will be extremely hard to get even a prototype right. My mill was doing fine with thinner aluminium cutting but machining deep in this 20mm thick boxes pushes it beyond the limit...
So for now I'll be doing the 2 piece PVC cases, should be able to cut couple every week. Then they will go to classifieds on this forum for an auction. Starting price for the set will be 60 Euros (to cover material and my time doing the machining and everything above will be sent to charity to support children in Uganda, using Bram Moolenaar's charity (http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/uganda.html#license).
As for the aluminium case, for now I'll be looking to find some cheap and decent 3rd party to cut them. I already found a company that will anodise them.

That's a shame

Nice going on the charity! But sadly too expensive for me

You recon? What would be a good price then?

Oh no, you misunderstood me. I'm not saying it is a bad price, just that I can't afford it right now!

seferphier · « **Reply #78 on:** Mon, 14 October 2013, 10:43:02 »

Quote from: czarek on Sun, 13 October 2013, 14:19:20

Just a quick update. I was away for a week, working with colleagues in London office. After coming back home I headed straight to the shop to work on aluminium cases. I must sadly admit with my current tools I won't be able to get decent results. I messed up the first cut badly and it seems it will be extremely hard to get even a prototype right. My mill was doing fine with thinner aluminium cutting but machining deep in this 20mm thick boxes pushes it beyond the limit...
So for now I'll be doing the 2 piece PVC cases, should be able to cut couple every week. Then they will go to classifieds on this forum for an auction. Starting price for the set will be 60 Euros (to cover material and my time doing the machining and everything above will be sent to charity to support children in Uganda, using Bram Moolenaar's charity (http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/uganda.html#license).
As for the aluminium case, for now I'll be looking to find some cheap and decent 3rd party to cut them. I already found a company that will anodise them.

Think an auction is a good idea. set a base price of $30-60 and allow others to bid on it. Let's see where it goes from there.

czarek · « **Reply #79 on:** Wed, 16 October 2013, 03:06:48 »

When looking for companies to do the aluminium case I pretty much resigned. The cheapest I could find was 120€ for the machining service, the material I already found the cheapest source for 25€ for the case. This results in 145€ for the case itself... Seems a lot to me but if anyone is interested I can organise cutting. Also please remember the design (both original ErgoDox and my cases) is open source and anyone can look for the company to cut the case for them.
I also started looking for a company to do the PCBs. If everything goes well I should be able to sell kits similar to the one on massdrop but without requiring the wait (which pisses me off, I still wait for my one) for the same or even lower price.

AKmalamute · « **Reply #80 on:** Wed, 16 October 2013, 12:35:26 »

I looked into it briefly, when MD was doing a run of just the PCB (hadn't found MechanicalKeyboards yet ... they have them, and four dollars cheaper to boot). A coworker's father works in a shop with CNC machines but said they charge $75/hr to set the machines up, plus materials and something nominal for making the machine cut into metal.

Also, and I hope you might be able to help me, all I found were the files that were sent to Shapeways ... 3D printing, which could sorta be converted for CNC'ing a two-piece case but surely it'd be simpler to cut from five sheets of metal like the acrylic case is but I absolutely COULD NOT find evidence of a machine-readable description for that version of the case.

Any help on looking stateside for getting cases made? As in, files I can carry around to say "cut this" ?

esoomenona · « **Reply #81 on:** Wed, 16 October 2013, 12:41:07 »

I think a stainless steel plate for the bottom, in a mirrored finish like the LZ-GH, would be amazing. Either way, I think I'm looking forward to buying one of these cases, pending actual use of an ErgoDox...

Tarzan_ · « **Reply #82 on:** Wed, 16 October 2013, 12:52:33 »

Quote from: AKmalamute on Wed, 16 October 2013, 12:35:26

I looked into it briefly, when MD was doing a run of just the PCB (hadn't found MechanicalKeyboards yet ... they have them, and four dollars cheaper to boot). A coworker's father works in a shop with CNC machines but said they charge $75/hr to set the machines up, plus materials and something nominal for making the machine cut into metal.

Also, and I hope you might be able to help me, all I found were the files that were sent to Shapeways ... 3D printing, which could sorta be converted for CNC'ing a two-piece case but surely it'd be simpler to cut from five sheets of metal like the acrylic case is but I absolutely COULD NOT find evidence of a machine-readable description for that version of the case.

Any help on looking stateside for getting cases made? As in, files I can carry around to say "cut this" ?

I sent the dwg files for litster's layered case out for sample pricing for a stainless steel ErgoDox case, those should work for most laser-cutting/waterjet-cutting shops.

AKmalamute · « **Reply #83 on:** Wed, 16 October 2013, 13:24:01 »

Quote from: Tarzan

I sent the dwg files for litster's layered case out for sample pricing for a stainless steel ErgoDox case, those should work for most laser-cutting/waterjet-cutting shops.

Oh, yeah. Have they been there a while? I see a .dxf file but that's closely related to DWG so should be fine.

Hey, stateside folks ... If I can derail CZarek's IC thread for my own IC ... it seems I know a guy who works at a CNC shop. How many of you would like to buy into a litster style Ergodox case made of either steel or aluminum? No idea the cost I can update here, or make my own IC thread if ppl like.

I'll have my coworker pass along the .dxf file for a formal price quote with some tiers involved, soon.

effnish · « **Reply #84 on:** Wed, 16 October 2013, 13:59:52 »

AKmalamute, I would be in for one maybe two depending on cost and whether I pick up one of CZarek's unibody cases.

Tarzan_ · « **Reply #85 on:** Wed, 16 October 2013, 14:08:01 »

Quote from: AKmalamute on Wed, 16 October 2013, 13:24:01

Quote from: Tarzan
I sent the dwg files for litster's layered case out for sample pricing for a stainless steel ErgoDox case, those should work for most laser-cutting/waterjet-cutting shops.
Oh, yeah. Have they been there a while? I see a .dxf file but that's closely related to DWG so should be fine.

Hey, stateside folks ... If I can derail CZarek's IC thread for my own IC ... it seems I know a guy who works at a CNC shop. How many of you would like to buy into a litster style Ergodox case made of either steel or aluminum? No idea the cost I can update here, or make my own IC thread if ppl like.

I'll have my coworker pass along the .dxf file for a formal price quote with some tiers involved, soon.

I'd be interested, depending on price. When I got estimates before, the setup costs make low-volume orders pretty spendy.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg1022033#msg1022033

czarek · « **Reply #86 on:** Sat, 02 November 2013, 04:28:58 »

Ok I've updated the design for 2 piece case. It's more optimized now and whole case is being cut in one go. I will be ok to deliver the case with every single PCB set I ordered for the other group buy. I'm not starting on cutting the batch yet though as I want to try to fit whole ergodox and optionally tweak the design a bit. I also talked to my father in law who will be helping me with the machining process while I'm at work.

catnipz0098 · « **Reply #87 on:** Sun, 03 November 2013, 15:20:28 »

interested

Latin00032 · « **Reply #88 on:** Sun, 03 November 2013, 16:59:38 »

Quote from: czarek on Sat, 02 November 2013, 04:28:58

Ok I've updated the design for 2 piece case. It's more optimized now and whole case is being cut in one go. I will be ok to deliver the case with every single PCB set I ordered for the other group buy. I'm not starting on cutting the batch yet though as I want to try to fit whole ergodox and optionally tweak the design a bit. I also talked to my father in law who will be helping me with the machining process while I'm at work.

Can you post pictures of the design?

czarek · « **Reply #89 on:** Wed, 06 November 2013, 01:57:46 »

Designs are here: https://github.com/cezaryfalba/ErgoDox-CNC-Case
Here is the effect of the rough test cut:

You can see that the edges are not perfect, they will be cleaned and polished after 2 pieces are screwed together to ensure perfect fit and finish.
Also there is protective film on a faces of the PVC plate - it's nice and shiny when removed

Coding · « **Reply #90 on:** Wed, 20 November 2013, 10:54:42 »

also interested in a full metal version!!!
but I didnt figure out how the pcb is protected...
will there be an aditional (metal-)case on the lower side?

Concerning your aluminium problem:
Couldn't you cut in the the aluminium 1mm deep, cut all out, then repeat 1mm deeper? at the end polish the cuts to make them fit 100%ly
I have absolutly no mechanically or cnc knowlege. It is just an idea!

czarek · « **Reply #91 on:** Thu, 21 November 2013, 07:04:31 »

Quote from: Coding on Wed, 20 November 2013, 10:54:42

also interested in a full metal version!!!
but I didnt figure out how the pcb is protected...
will there be an aditional (metal-)case on the lower side?

Concerning your aluminium problem:
Couldn't you cut in the the aluminium 1mm deep, cut all out, then repeat 1mm deeper? at the end polish the cuts to make them fit 100%ly
I have absolutly no mechanically or cnc knowlege. It is just an idea!

I still haven't figured the bottom out, but I think I'll use the same thing for both aluminium and PCB cases - 1 or 2mm thick silicon rubber like this:
http://allegro.pl/guma-plyta-silikonowa-silikon-2mm-atest-pzh-fvat-i3689302854.html
It's used in food production industry so it's all nice and safe, not cheap though

Coding · « **Reply #92 on:** Thu, 21 November 2013, 08:02:47 »

Quote from: czarek on Thu, 21 November 2013, 07:04:31

I still haven't figured the bottom out, but I think I'll use the same thing for both aluminium and PCB cases - 1 or 2mm thick silicon rubber like this:
http://allegro.pl/guma-plyta-silikonowa-silikon-2mm-atest-pzh-fvat-i3689302854.html
It's used in food production industry so it's all nice and safe, not cheap though

ah ok

I meant if you have problems cutting deep in the metal, cut multiple times not so deep in the metal.
So if you only have enough power to cut 1mm in metal do it 10 times and you would also have cut the whole 10mm...
it needs more time but if you ask me (naive) it should work...

czarek · « **Reply #93 on:** Fri, 22 November 2013, 17:36:57 »

Yep I do that but this means cutting one case takes couple of hours and it just doesn't seem like it's worth it. I doubt anyone would be interested paying 100€ or more for a case...

ffira · « **Reply #94 on:** Mon, 25 November 2013, 10:34:04 »

Count me in on the unibody design!!
Very nice!!

Is it not possible to use polycarbonate slabs for the unibody design (just like the old white macbook polycarbonate)?
It may be cheaper than using aluminum, but still sturdy and robust enough for the unibody milling process.

czarek · « **Reply #95 on:** Mon, 25 November 2013, 11:59:18 »

Old polycarbonate macbook was not machined, it was normal mould I think, and the unibody was just a design that the whole top case was made of the single piece of plastic.
I see a lot of you guys are interested in unibody aluminium case (myself included). I'm going to send out quotes to machining companies here in Poland to see how much would they charge for machining a set. Please remember the cheapest raw aluminium blocks required for the case cost 30€ a set and usual prices for machining are 30-35€ per hour over here.
And please I don't want to order machining in Asia. I know they're busy working on iPhones and other fancy gadgetery for this year holiday season already and there is no way we could get the keyboards anytime soon.
As a side note - anodizing and powder coating is cheap

And another note - if you feel like it you're free to use my designs and order any CNC company to cut the case for you. The designs are on my github page.

Coding · « **Reply #96 on:** Tue, 26 November 2013, 02:36:56 »

Quote from: czarek on Mon, 25 November 2013, 11:59:18

I see a lot of you guys are interested in unibody aluminium case (myself included). I'm going to send out quotes to machining companies here in Poland to see how much would they charge for machining a set.

Sounds nice

Can you please show us a complete ready ErgoDox with your case as soon as possible?
Do you offer a sort of preorder to minimize ongoing costs for yourself?

BTW.: is here somebody willed to organize a groupbuy for blank PBT DCS ErgoDox keycaps with homingbar in bright white (WFJ) from signatureplastics?
I think they would fit good to the plastic case...

@czarek:
At the beginning of this thread I thought:
Oh my god, someone wants to make a case and sell it. Nobody will buy that rubbish.
But at some point I figured out, you use cnc machine... and saw the amazing pictures!!!

jalli · « **Reply #97 on:** Mon, 16 December 2013, 10:17:32 »

I'm at a point where I need cases for my backlit prototypes but there don't seem to be many options out there, I figured this thread would be the right place to gather the information I have found and perhaps we can figure out a way to get the ball rolling on this.

As far as I know there are four viable ways to make an ErgoDOX case.

2D Laser cutting using Lister's design
2D Routing, Listers design with toolpaths for to make corners work
3D Printing, using the original Case designed by Dox (flat, single or double tilted bottoms available)
3D Routing using czarek case

The designs can be found in order at:

I looked around for some online places that offer these services, here are some price examples:

Shapeways - Original, 3D Printed Plastic $180¹
Ponoko - Original 3D Printed Acrylic $524
Seeedstudio - Lister Laser Cut Acrylic $14²
Seeedstudio - Original 3D Printed Plastic $216³

¹ Interestingly Ceramic cases are cheaper but the top is too complex for ceramics, bottom might be OK.
² Can also do PCB and optionally assembly and e-test, would need to confirm availability of plastic thicknesses or test with 2.55mm. Minimum order 5.
² Can also do PCB and optionally assembly and e-test, Minimum order 2.

Anyone have suggestions for 3D printing or CNC milling/laser places that can make these and prices?

planet36 · « **Reply #98 on:** Mon, 16 December 2013, 21:43:00 »

I'm interested in the PVC case.

agodinhost · « **Reply #99 on:** Tue, 17 December 2013, 08:01:32 »

How about a new case? One ready to be printed at home using one 3D Extruder Printer?
We could create a new case merging Lister's idea (flat acrylic) into the Dox case.

I saw a few points into Dox's case that could be changed to make it possible:
1) The top has lots of bridges. We could change it in order to print this guy up side down, with the plate touching the printer heatbed.
2) Changing the top would require changes in the bottom, sure, these changes would be required to make the bottom fit with the top.
3) The bottom could be modular - we could print those large foots apart and then use some glue to fix it. This approuch would make possible to have both models - the flat one and the taller.
4) One extra top, to be glued or screwed above the plate.

Does it make sense?
My english does not help in large texts ...
Gosh

jalli · « **Reply #100 on:** Tue, 17 December 2013, 09:25:51 »

I think a core 2 piece design would be ideal with optional legs to increase the tenting.

Personally I would design the bottom with all the spacing so that both the bottom and top would have flat undersides, this way you could have a skirt on the top.

Unfortunately I'll be away until early January and won't have any internet access, not even sure about mains power but I'd be happy to collaborate or model a case in January, I've got fair to good NURBS modeling skills.

Quote from: agodinhost on Tue, 17 December 2013, 08:01:32

How about a new case? One ready to be printed at home using one 3D Extruder Printer?
We could create a new case merging Lister's idea (flat acrylic) into the Dox case.

I saw a few points into Dox's case that could be changed to make it possible:
1) The top has lots of bridges. We could change it in order to print this guy up side down, with the plate touching the printer heatbed.
2) Changing the top would require changes in the bottom, sure, these changes would be required to make the bottom fit with the top.
3) The bottom could be modular - we could print those large foots apart and then use some glue to fix it. This approuch would make possible to have both models - the flat one and the taller.
4) One extra top, to be glued or screwed above the plate.

Does it make sense?
My english does not help in large texts ...
Gosh

agodinhost · « **Reply #101 on:** Thu, 19 December 2013, 15:25:22 »

I'll try to draw some sketches.
I'm no Sketchup nor openscad expert but I can draw something to try to expose the idea.

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